Behind The Pulpit

Of Greatness and Grapes

• Millington Baptist Church • Season 4 • Episode 7

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After a full weekend of ministry—including Trunk or Treat and a powerful baptism Sunday—the team returns to reflect on Isaiah 24–25. Pastor Bob unpacks this “mini-apocalypse” with its sobering picture of judgment and its stunning vision of a future feast on God’s holy mountain. With rich imagery of sour grapes and aged wine, the pastors explore what it means to live as fruitful people in a broken world, rooted in hope and connected to the true vine.

The conversation also touches on a mix of cultural headlines and theological reflection. From Shohei Ohtani’s case for baseball greatness to a real-life Louvre heist, the crew weaves in thoughtful commentary on forgiveness, the fall of Babylon in Isaiah 14, and the surprising rise of Gen Z church engagement. Plus, the Book War rolls on—with Bob bringing a bite-sized guide to spiritual leadership, while Dave reaches deep into the spiritual writings of Jonathan Edwards.

***VOTE HERE***
The Great Book War is on!  Vote for the winner of the 'Great Book War' with the link below!
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Trunk or Treat
https://millingtonbaptist.org/trunk-or-treat-2025/
Little Footprints Fundraiser
https://millingtonbaptist.org/lflc-pie-fundraiser/
Music Camp Vision Meeting
https://millingtonbaptist.org/music-camp-2/
Senior Lunch
https://millingtonbaptist.org/seniors/

Chapters:
0:00 Intro
3:48 In The News
15:51 The Great Book War
25:03 Sermon Recap
52:12 Theology Sprint
33:12 Audience Questions

Music
"Ventura"
Morgan Taylor
U76EPPNJDYZYU0Y7

Dave:

Hey, what's going on everybody? We're here for our weekly podcast behind the pulpit where we bring to you all kinds of new information that you are dying to know about. I know you are. It's October 20th, the year of our Lord 2025. Uh the leaves are changing. It is full-on fall weather. Uh things have cooled down. And I have my colleague here, Pastor Bob, with the Cornelius Van Till t-shirt and creator creature distinction going on.

Bob:

I think we're at mid-peak. Mid-peak. Maybe next week we're we're full peak right here in our area of New Jersey, but it's we're definitely into the fall. It's it's nippy. It's nippy in the morning. I gotta wear a jacket.

Dave:

There's burning bushes all around. It's a wonderful time. We've had a great weekend here at Millington Baptist Church. We had a senior lunch, we had a cooking demonstration with spiritual themes going on. We had uh an awesome trunk retreat. Pastor Bob had a trunk. You had some dragons and a sword that were featured as part of your trunk.

Bob:

We were training dragons in our trunk.

Dave:

A lot of kids coming through, beautiful weather. We had a great weather day on Saturday, and then this Sunday, we had some very special baptisms that occurred at Millington Baptist Church. It was a great weekend, and we're looking forward to talking all about it. Pastor Bob bringing the sermon from the book of Isaiah. Took us on a zipline ride. Maybe we'll get a chance to uh ride the zipline today as well.

Bob:

I think we covered half of Isaiah on uh on Sunday. Nicely done. Nicely done. What's the zipline?

Dave:

Take the zipline. Well, let's zip in a little bit. Let's start by talking about how awesome these baptisms are. Since I've been here, this is the most amount of baptisms that we've had at Millington Baptist Church. I have a list, and Sunday brought us up to usually usually a year brings like eight to ten baptisms. Sunday brought us up to number 28 uh so far in the year 2025, which is uh substantial. So uh a lot of baptisms. We're thankful, and that's not only a record for that uh particular metric, but for me, I have never had the opportunity, the privilege of baptizing someone that was 91 years old before. That was a great, uh, wonderful profession of faith. Uh, our dear Dolly decided to profess her faith in Baptism Sunday, and I I believe that the church was greatly supportive of this uh woman of God here deciding to uh say her acknowledgement of the Lord Jesus Christ in front of the congregation. Look at that picture. There she is, 91 years old, the family coming around her. Sue Turner did a great job discipling her, leading her to the Lord over the last few years. And so Sunday was the culmination of that, her being baptized as as well as we had another teenager get baptized, which was really fantastic, too.

Bob:

We had the the the full spectrum. Yeah. Was it what is what is how old is Jackson? Was he 15? 14? How old is he? He's around there. He's a freshman in high school. Freshman. So like fifteen, fifteen. Yeah. So mid mid-teens, all the way up to 91. That's uh that's wow. Yeah. Only God, man.

Dave:

So look at that, look at that hug there with with Johnny and Jackson. There's a real friendship there. I think Johnny was about to tackle him into the baptistry just to get back.

Bob:

Johnny was going to get a second baptism right there in the fallback backwards.

Dave:

There was some action going on in uh in both baptisms. That's great. Yeah. Well, it was a good Sunday, and we're so excited about all that God is doing here at NBC. Which leads us to talk about our first sponsor of the show. It is never too early to pull out your calendar and save the date for our vacation Bible school summer adventure. VBS this year is going to be happening July 13th to 17th. So pull out your phone, click on calendar, and scroll all the way down six or seven times till you get to July. Click on the 13th and put in the VBS so that you can save that week and put that aside. If you'd like to serve with us or if you're sending one of your kids, you'll be sure to want to make sure that's part of your summer plans. We want to tell you early because uh that is a great week of ministry. So uh kids' ministry this summer, it's happening July 13th to 17th. All right, now we've come to that part of our show that everybody loves where we talk about what's going on in the news. All right, well, here we go. Um there's a lot to talk about, but let's start with Friday night. Friday night. If you like the great American pastime, if you like to watch baseball, if you are tuned in at all to what's going on in the playoff run, then you know what happened on Friday night. I don't think something like this has ever happened in the history of baseball, where you had uh the same person um pitching uh and getting 10 strikeouts, and that same individual also hitting not one, not two, but three different home runs in the same game. And so I don't know, man. This is like a new wave of the future. Uh Shohei Antani has officially been named perhaps the greatest baseball player of all time, maybe even the greatest athlete of all time for the feat that he accomplished on Friday night. Six shutout innings, uh ten strikeouts, man. That's like X, X, X, X, X, ten times. And then the dude gets up to bat and bangs it out over the fence, not once, not twice, three different times. Noah and Tim, please, have you ever seen anything like this?

Tim:

Um no, I I do think well, I think it is important to differentiate between the greatest and best. I think right now, I think he's the best baseball player of all time. I don't think we can say he is yet the greatest baseball player of all time.

Dave:

That's a different help me understand those two adjectives and why they're needing to be distinguished.

Bob:

I mean also somebody named Babe Ruth who's Noah, no, Noah.

Tim:

Let me know if um so I think a lot of times when people are comparing athletes, um, there's like multiple things that they put in there. Um like in terms of like, oh, you gotta start adding their championships and their accolades and stuff. So I think you can say someone is better at a sport, but they're not they don't have the greatness factor because of different things won. Now Shohei might get there, he's already won a couple MVPs, he's already won a World Series. Um, so I think with a couple more of those, I think you can have the conversation. But I when I say he's the best, I mean just like pure talent and ability. Um so like Yeah, I would still put Babe Ruth over him just because Babe Ruth has won all those world series.

Bob:

Well, we say that like the greatest, so do you do you factor in the amount of championships? Yeah, you factor in like personal stats, all that.

Tim:

So like for example, the one I like to use is I I think like in their prime, I think that this might be controversial. I think Aaron Rodgers was a more talented quarterback than Tom Brady, but Tom Brady is the greater quarterback because he won all those championships, if that makes sense. He had he had the it factor, but he had like the the there's like the between the ears game plays into that too. I think like pure raw talent, I think Aaron Rodgers was in their prime, was more talented than Brady. But Brady's gonna be the greatest quarterback of all time because of his between the ears and his MVPs and his Super Bowls and all that.

Noah:

So I want to hear from Noah. Throwing down the terms greatest of all time is a very loaded term. Like for me Especially when you say athlete. He might be he might go down. For me, I always like I always like to talk about this with basketball because I think LeBron's better than Jordan, but that's a very heated debate because some people will also bring into the argument. Yes, it is.

Bob:

Because some people will also bring into the argument that's people start like throwing fists like fighting.

Noah:

I'm about to throw this phone at you from here. What did you just say? Because some people will also bring in the argument of there's different eras. So, you know, while you know Michael Jordan might have been the best in his era, you know, LeBron's the best of his era, and you can't compare the two. I don't particularly agree with that line of argument, but some people bring that in. I'm sure you can bring that in with baseball too. Like baseball was a much different sport in what, the 30s or 40s when Ruth played, versus now in 2025 when Shohei Otani plays. Uh, you know, like someone as unathletic looking as Babe Ruth, you know, you don't really see that anymore today. But that's just that's again that's the difference in the era. Uh so I think that's another line of thinking too. But it's a really difficult argument because I agree with Tim with the Rogers versus Brady debate. Like I've never seen a quarterback as skilled as Rogers play, but Rogers wasn't as good at winning as Brady. But then you all spring to the argument of, you know, it's a team sport. So you know, Brady had arguably the greatest coach of all time, uh, helping him come to all of his championships while Rogers never really had that.

Tim:

Like right now, I would say Patrick Mahomes is the best quarterback that's ever played the sport. But I think he's still got some miles to go before he passes Brady on the greatness meter, if that makes sense.

Dave:

I would like to challenge Noah to a debate about the GOAT. If you really want to start that LeBron LeBron is superior to MJ, we're gonna have this like it's gonna happen. Name the time, name the place, and I will bring my research.

Noah:

I'll be there with charts included.

Dave:

I I I'm gonna be there with video clips. I got Michael Jordan come fly with me 1989, man. I got I got what you need. So let's in the comments. Do you want to see a special segment?

Tim:

I'm ready for you, bro. That will be our next underground session too. That's the next underground session. We'll have a panel discussion on the greatest.

Bob:

It's true. By the way, Babe Ruth played in the teens and twenties, not the 30s and 40s.

Tim:

Yeah, the bats they swung back then were like so heavy, and also the pitching was slower, so it's like a bit of like a push. It's the same thing.

Dave:

Greatness. When I was a kid, it was Barry Bonds that was like the Yeah, but Barry Bonds took steroids. I have a whole I still think controversial. I still think he's the greatest hitter of all time. But that we can have another debate about that. Willie Mays was a was a big name back in the day. Babe Ruth, of course. Say hey kid. Yeah. Jackie Robinson. All right. So that's a big night, Friday night. We'll see how things go. It's three to three in the series right now. Three to three. Is it tonight? Is the tiebreaker?

Tim:

Uh, I think probably tomorrow because there's a coastal difference, maybe two days. It's I'm torn because as a Yankee fan, do you want you want the team who beat you to go farther, or do you want to get revenge?

Dave:

So that's in the news. You let us know who you want to win. Maybe by the time the show airs, we'll have somebody as head into the World Series. Who knows? All right. The next story that's happening in the news is um well, there's a couple we wanted to cover, right? Wanna talk about the Gen Z thing? We can talk about it. What's happening with the Gen Z people, Bob? Did you get some stat stats for us? Do you have some kind of new research?

Bob:

There was a Barna Yes, there was a Barna study that came out, uh as well as I saw somebody else. Well, here was the headline I saw. Gen Z now attends church more times per month than any generation in the United States, according to a brand new study from Barna. And then if you actually go to Barna.com and look at their uh uh their their uh state of the church address here. Uh new Barna data, young adults lead a resurgence in church attendance. Um the the long and the short of it is basically saying that um uh churchgoing frequency is an improving trend among millennials and Gen Z. Uh millennials and Gen Z are heading to church more frequently than before, and much more than any any of the older generations. Typical Gen Z churchgoer attends 1.9 weekends, millennials 1.8, and I guess everybody else is a little bit less than that. So there's a resurgence, man. There's a church going spike amongst the younger people, which I think is a good thing. Have you seen these stats, Pastor Dave?

Dave:

Yeah. I'm kind of wanting someone to like carry the flag for the young ladies. I think it's time. The young men are outpacing the young ladies at this point, which is you know, usually it's the reverse. So let's go, ladies bring them in.

Bob:

Well, what about somebody like uh like an Ali Beth Stucky who's getting up there and like debating a bunch of people?

Dave:

Did you see her 20 to 1 debate on YouTube?

Bob:

I s I saw clips of it, yeah.

Dave:

I saw the whole thing. She did a fantastic job. She articulated the Christian world. She defended things with gentleness and respect. And I thought she did like really well. Um I was like, would you imagine, Pastor?

Bob:

You just sit in the middle here and we just have person after person after person coming up and I don't have the ability to do that. You took a deep breath before our podcast right now. So just imagine somebody doing that.

Dave:

I can't do that. I know my gifting, and that's not it. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. All right. The next news story that is something that Bob did not believe. I texted him last night. He goes, That's not true. That's not true. I'm like, look it up, Bob. It's true. I did it's true. This weekend I did not believe it. In Paris, France, the famous museum, the Louvre, the the museum that holds the Mona Lisa, the the museum that haven't they made movies about heists happening in the Louvre? Like, wasn't this like the center of the Da Vinci Code? Like, this is like a very famous museum to rob, and they successfully robbed it this weekend. There's some jewels missing from LinkedIn. I think there were four suspects, is that right? And they had some kind of ladder truck and they had some tools to break some windows on an upper floor, snuck in there.

Bob:

Is there a picture here, too?

Dave:

And they got like some of the stuff from like the Napoleon era. There was crown jewels, there was old diamonds, there was rocks that they came in there and they took. And I was trying to figure out like how much is this stuff worth?

Tim:

Like price.

Dave:

I don't know if anybody's gonna put a number on these rocks, but like these guys took some stuff. And as far as I know, these thieves, they're still at large. They don't they didn't catch them, man.

Bob:

It's like Oceans 11 right now. It's like Oceans 12, it's ocean's 13. You need Jacques Clouzeau out there. Yeah. Brad Pitt and George Clooney got together and did this.

Dave:

It's like that show Lupine or whatever it's called, man. The the heist happened this weekend. You're crazy.

Tim:

Here's my question.

Dave:

So what's what's the point?

Tim:

How do you sell that? You gotta break it down. Black market. You can't sell it as is.

Bob:

You have to break it down. So you don't do it unless you got a buyer. I'm sure somebody's got a buyer for it. So is it gonna melt it down? Rare artifacts, somebody who's like, shh, all right.

Dave:

There is a black market, and I think that's how they're gonna catch them. They're gonna find somebody's gonna offer the inside.

Bob:

Somebody's gonna be So you think they'll catch them.

Dave:

Like a sneaky buyer, and they're gonna No, they'll get them.

Tim:

Yeah. I feel like it's too between between traffic cameras and like AI facial recognition technology that is probably around that we don't even know about or agreed to at this point. I I'm sure they'll get them.

Bob:

You would think in our world in our day and age, how could somebody bypass all the security features? That's uh See, that's why I didn't believe it. That's why I didn't believe it.

Tim:

It's crazy. I still I still don't believe it. The amount of security that's probably in that place, like Mona Lisa and all these jewels, is probably just like not to mention like I mean even the Museum of Natural History in in New York City where they have a bunch of gems and stuff. Like the glass thickness and they got security guards in the room and stuff like that. Like, how I'm they they're gonna make a movie out of this one day. It's it's gonna happen. We'll finally have an original idea for a movie.

Bob:

Yeah. Yeah, very true.

Dave:

So that's what's happening in the news. The next part of our show has a sponsor, and I'm needing to bring it up to remind myself who it is. Yes, it's sponsored by the Circle of Sisters, and this is a uh wonderful chance to have a Bible study, to chance to have fellowship. And um, if you are a young lady and you're interested in this particular ministry, there's the dates on the screen. We got October 19th just happened. The next one's November 2nd. We'd love to see you there. That's on a Sunday. It happens after the second service at 2 p.m. in the YFMB, aka the Youth and Family Ministry Building, the building that we never successfully named with anything clever, so we just call it the YFMB. We'd love to see you there. Is there an age limit to who can attend the Circle of Sisters?

Tim:

It's uh seventh through twelfth grade. So if you're in youth group, yeah, you can go. They're not mean like the band of brothers and only allow high schoolers.

Dave:

So if that's your age, ladies, we'd love to see you there. Or if you're a parent and you have a daughter who's that age range, we would love for you to encourage her to come too.

Bob:

Or a grandparent if you got a grandkid who's this age. Absolutely. I think they feed you. Get on them. I think they make lunch for them. Which is pretty cool.

Dave:

And now it's time.

Bob:

You don't have to feed them lunch. That's a good that's a good selling point right there.

Dave:

There we go. And now it's time to talk about some books. So it's it's the great book war. It's the one and only book war. We had a record this week. See how we said. Is it the greatest book war or is it the best book war?

Bob:

We had we had a third, a third, uh, third party and independent.

Tim:

We had 17 votes, which I think is a record. Hey, nicely done, guys. 17.

Bob:

See how the votes had the votes split down.

Tim:

It's a split, alright. Okay. It was a bit of a landslide. All right. Um Pastor Dave is back on winning track here.

Dave:

All right. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

Tim:

So what I find funny about Storm and Norman Geisler is that this is the typical kind of book that Pastor Bob recommends. And Pastor Bob recommended a typical kind of book that you would recommend.

Bob:

Say it was like bizarre, it was like the upside down book. This is the upside down. Pastor Dave.

Dave:

You like blew it out of the water here. Wow. You know, I I didn't have much hope for Ericsson, but I didn't think it would be that bad. But that's a tough, tough sell, man. That's a big thick thing you had there that week, man. Bro, you're getting up here with like the thick works of uh John Oak. You be coming up here. Hey, I got a chance to teach the Cornerstone class last Wednesday, and I apologize. I called it the Foundation's First Class. It's the Cornerstone class. Pastor Bob corrected me on that. Uh it's a homeschool group co-op that meets here on Wednesdays, and they um are going through that book and they're doing a good job. And so I encourage you to read it. I enjoyed uh getting to familiarize myself with that book. So thank you for your voting. And now it comes time for this week. I see you have something much smaller than Miller Derrick's in this week.

Bob:

Well, I decided to go the opposite direction. So I went with a thick book, which uh uh clearly didn't work out for me uh this last week. So I'm gonna go the opposite direction, and I'm gonna go with a little teeny book right here, a little small book. Um, but this is a book you could probably read in a nice little sitting, less than an hour. Um I've actually found it very beneficial. It's by a guy named Joel Beakey, and it's called How to Lead Your Family. How to Lead Your Family, a guide for men wanting to be more. And I want you to notice, I don't Tim can't zoom in here, there's a little thing up here and it just says short and to the point. Short and to the point. So if you want a book you can actually complete this week, this is your book right here, especially if you are uh a leader. Uh if you're a man in your family. Now the thing I like about this book, there it is. Um you may remember in the Old Testament there's three offices that God institutes, uh, Deuteronomy um 18. Uh the prophet, the priest, and the king. So the way that he formats this book is to talk about how you as a uh husband, as a father, are the spiritual leader in your family, and you are fulfilling the role of prophet, being the teacher, disciple of your family, the priest, the one who cares for your your family soul, and the king who who leads and administrates your family. He breaks that up um in those three different ways. And I found uh his why I found the paradigm pretty helpful as well as uh he offers some very, very practical uh advice on how to actually accomplish that. So there you go. How to lead your family, boom, shortened to the point.

Dave:

Okay, not so short for me this week. It is the spiritual writings of Jonathan Edwards. This is a new collection. Um some of this stuff is not even in the classic Yale University set of Jonathan Edwards writings, and he has put together uh just the stuff that Jonathan Edwards writes more on the spiritual life. Um, there is some sermons in here that have never been published. There's a uh writing on beauty that I thought was really good. Um, he starts with holiness, and then he's got some miscellaneies in here, and there is a sermon that I wanted to specifically recognize. That's kind of like the extra stuff that Edwards wrote that he didn't really title. Okay, so yeah, here it is. So this sermon that is uh called uh it's just a fragment. Uh it's an application on the love to Christ. It's a meditation on James 1.12. Blessed is the man who endureth temptation, for when he's tried he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Written in 1723, he goes through some doctrine here, but then there is this one page where he just takes time to describe the beauty of Christ, and it was really, really well done. So I'll just read a couple excerpts. He is called the Rose of Sharon and the Lily of the Valley. Sharon, being a delightful and pleasant land, bore the sweetest roses in the lily of the valley, excelling all other lilies for beauty, sweetness, and excellent salutary virtue. He's represented thus to flowers because they are pleasant to behold, beautiful to the eye, and pleasing to the smell. He's compared to the rose and lily because they are the chief of flowers for beauty and sweetness. He's compared to the rose of Sharon and Lily of the Valley because they are the chief and most excellent of all roses and lilies. What kind of rose and lily is the Son of God, the blessed Jesus? How wonderful and astonishing that God the Son should compare himself to a rose and lily. What kind of rose and lily is here? How sweet, how beautiful, how fragrant. And then he goes on to describe after this, this infinitely beautiful rose, this spotless and fragrant lily, was once despised with loathsome spittle of wicked men, and was torn and rent by their rage, and it was for you, O believers, that the vials of God's wrath against your sin were poured out upon it. He just goes on and on and on describing the beauty of Jesus Christ. It's a wonderful book. It is absolutely a joy to read. There is nobody like Edwards. There is just nobody who writes like him, who reads like him. Um, it is great devotional reading. This is specifically his spiritual writings. I read that this week, and it was absolutely a joy. Some chapters, I'm totally honest, they were really heavy, and I got through them doctrinally, and then other chapters I read them devotionally with tears streaming down my face because of the beauty of Christ, and he exalts him in a way that is absolutely breathtaking in this volume. So check it out. Jonathan Edwards Spiritual Writings. It is not cheap. This thing's like 50 bucks. So um, it's an investment. If you want a good one, this one is a good one. It also we what you're gonna get in here is is so much. Um, so I encourage you to check it out on Amazon. It's new, fresh off the press, the classics of Western spirituality. Jonathan Edwards, spiritual writings. That's my book recommendation for this week. What a week. There you go. Get to do that for one of your seminars.

Bob:

Yeah. Nice.

Tim:

We have a fifty dollar book versus a a very readable book for now of our audience.

Dave:

You want the economically uh one, you know. Although I think Joel Beakey would have recommended Edwards. I'm gonna just put my money right there.

Bob:

So well, I'm sure you're gonna win. So I mean, I'm just kind of throwing doing the best I can right here. It doesn't really matter what I recommend.

Tim:

The score is four to one.

Bob:

The thing is, you can recommend this, I can recommend that. You'd still win. I think it's all rigged, right?

Tim:

He's paying people. I got friends. Make sure you go and vote. The voters go we're seeing you decide. We're we're getting our we we have a list of 12 voter of the year uh fan of the year candidates. Pastor Bob is actually on there, so Pastor Bob is voting.

Dave:

There you go.

Tim:

Uh Pastor Bob, I probably I voted for my book last week. Bob was the one vote for his book last week. You can't you can't blame him for trying. So go vote. Well, thank you guys. Can I say something real quick? I had an email um from someone this week asking for like the instructions on where to vote if you're listening now on YouTube or on YouTube. Uh if you're on YouTube or you're on your podcasting device, um all you have to do is go to the description of the episode and you scroll down um to the description. There's gonna be a wordy explanation of the um episode in the show notes, and then there'll be some links, and then the first link you'll see will be vote here. Um, and then there should be a link there you should be able to press on all of your podcasting platforms and YouTube. So scroll down, do that, um, and you can vote there.

Dave:

Awesome. Sorry guys. And this show is also brought to you by our men's breakfast. That's this Saturday. We hope to see you guys there. It is 7:30 in the morning, and we hope that you'll show up early, grab a seat, get some food. We're gonna have worship and we're gonna have a testimony time from Mr. Doug Hulene, who is gonna share his story and how the gospel intersected with his life. You won't want to miss our time of getting together with the guys this Saturday morning. Hopefully, you will make it. Now, we're journeying through the book of Isaiah. We are catapulting, you might say, through a certain section of Isaiah. We are. You like my uh my zip lining idea that I gave you there? I noticed that made it on the screen. I gave it the lady was holding it.

Bob:

Actually, you wanted me to use the catapult for dear life were shooting out of cannons. So I thought the zipline was a little bit more sanitary, but nobody I did bring up the zip line as an alternative, which you like.

Dave:

There you go. But you took us on the ride through a lot of chapters, man. I did. So give us uh can you give us like a a good flyover of the whole sermon, or is that too much to ask for this particular week?

Bob:

No, I mean I can I can do a I can do a quick flyover. Tim, Tim, uh, upset at me right there because um in the second service, apparently I held the grapes on the wrong side of the pulpit, and he didn't get a picture of me holding the grapes with the vine. So there, you just see the you see the one grape in my hand.

Tim:

Yeah, so I I normally take the pictures for the thumbnail during the first service, but I knew he was going to bring grapes, so I wanted to get some reconnaissance. So I watched him for the first service, and he he he picked them up with one hand. I'm like, okay, so that this means I have to take the picture from this side of the sanctuary. Second service comes around, I switch the lights, I'm running down, and then he uses them in the other hand. So the big the big hold grape hold was blocking Bob's face. But I'm very happy with the with the subnet.

Bob:

Oh no.

Tim:

So if you uh if you missed the sermon, go check it out.

Bob:

All right. So the uh the Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Dave:

There was something about you eating during the first service. All right. Am I giving the flyover and not eating during the second service?

Bob:

Yes, so I'm the run through. I w I had this idea of, you know, you know, the grapes and uh throwing grapes out for people to eat it, and then I took one and talking about how how wonderful they were. So I did choose to eat a grape in the first service, and uh my my wife had these uh large grapes that uh took a little while to chew, so I decided not to eat it in the second service. And then Tim what Tim and I were were recounting his uh this happened to me, his uh uh Living Lord's Supper uh experience with eating a grape while he was giving a monologue.

Tim:

You ate the grape too. Yeah, so for those of you who may remember for during the Living Lord's Supper, I was I played Judas, and before I thought it would be like kind of um I don't know, it felt like it fit the character if I just plucked a grape and I ate it before I began speaking. So at the dress rehearsal I did that, and it took me about five minutes to actually finish eating the grape. And so I was like, I had to make sure for the actual rehearsal I would finish the grape before I actually started five minutes? That's true.

Bob:

I did I did think though, should I stop? Should I eat it? I don't want to eat it too quick, I could choke, and then that would be you know the sermon would be done.

Tim:

It felt like five because all you're doing is thinking about this while you're trying to s to say your lines. So it feels like forever. It probably was just like 30 seconds.

Bob:

But so I didn't know.

Tim:

Bob, how long did it take you to eat the grape?

Bob:

I don't I don't know.

Dave:

It was about it was about a minute.

Bob:

It was it was a little while. I w I was chewing on it. Then the second service I decided not to eat it, and I actually asked I was watching you like, man, this poor guy.

Dave:

You missed it. It's gotta be so painful. He's still too much trying to talk.

Bob:

I asked in the second service if people wanted to try to catch it with their mouth, and people raised their hand in the second service. No, I said somebody's gonna choke and then. Local pastor. I made a I can see this headline. CPR had Heimlich maneuver during sermon.

Dave:

Anyway, what was your sermon about? Why are we talking about grapes?

Bob:

So there's an image in in uh uh that I in Isaiah begins in Isaiah 5, where God compares his people to a vineyard who produced not not good grapes but wild grapes, and the euphemism wild grapes means they were they were sour, they were bad. So why did that happen? Well, uh they turned away from God, they they they moved away from him, and as a result, the judgment was coming. So the main question for the sermon, uh for the quick fly over here, was how do how do we live as sweet grapes in a sour world? Our world is sour, it's turned away from God, and uh I think Isaiah twenty four and twenty five, our main uh our main passages were talking about how we have to rest in The coming judgment, that was Isaiah 24. We have to then secondly sing the upside down song, that's chapter 25. Um, and then and then finally we feast on the mountain, uh, which is the center of that song. And uh in chapter 13 to 23, we see all these judgments that are going on in in the near future for Isaiah, the surrounding nations, and then 24 and 25, all the way up to chapter 27, are what's known as the mini apocalypse, which point us to a lot of themes that are uh recapitulated in the book of Revelation. So, how's that?

Dave:

Very good.

Bob:

All right. Usually dive in each each section if you want.

Dave:

I want to see the map. So can we talk about that?

Bob:

Bob made a map. Well, for what shouldn't we look at your chart? Does he have your chart? Oh, all right. Yeah. So let's do that. First of all, let's do the chart. So last week because it got shortchanged last week. Sorry.

Dave:

We first like kind of summarized Isaiah 1 through 12, and you see the center section is chapter 6, and you can see this beautiful chart on the screen where we kind of like tell you what's happened so far in the first major unit of the book of Isaiah. And so the theme there was God's glory in salvation through judgment. And then we come to a new unit, and chapter 13 starts a new section, and so from there we go to the map.

Bob:

Yeah, and there's the map. And what we did was we uh for the main sermon, we catapulted, we ziplined over 13 to 23 and got to 24 and 25. But if you read chapters 13 to 23, you're gonna see it's just all these judgments over and over again and the different nations that are judged. So in 13 and 14, we have Babylon, which is a major player, comes up again in chapter 21 and 24. Um, and then I at the end of Isaiah 14, we had the Philistines, which by the way, one of these weeks we'll do we'll do a recap on the house of David. Uh first season of chap of first uh episode of chap uh season two was about them defeating the Philistines. Um and then in uh 15 and 16 we got judgment against Moab, uh the people that were coming and attacking from the from the east, the southeast. Then we had Egypt. All these were nations that were conquered either by the Babylonians or the Assyrians. Um and then we had Syria up there in chapter 17. Chapter 20 uh 22 is known as the Valley of Vision uh prophecy, which uh speaking of your Puritan writers over here, uh that that is where the Puritan devotional, the Valley of Vision, gets its name. But it really is judgment that's coming against uh both Jerusalem and Judah, who are now counted among the pagan nations because they've turned away from God. They they too will be brought into exile and conquered. And then chapter 23 talks about Tyre, this coastal city that's going to be brought brought low. And the main theme that we said in all these um all these nations, and the reason they deserve judgment was their pride. Their pride in thinking that they were uh you know they they were more important than God. And yet God comes in, he humbles them and brings them low, and uh judgment comes to to wipe them out.

Dave:

That's cool. Can we just talk a little bit about Isaiah 14 before we get to your section?

Bob:

So dive into 14.

Dave:

Isaiah 14 Satan, man? Well, it's the denouncing of the king of Babylon, right? And I think you mentioned in your sermon that you tend to see it as the king of Babylon, if I heard you correctly. Yes. So how how do you see it that way, and how might other people read that differently?

Bob:

Well, I I think for the Babylonian piece, it defin it fits in more with the uh the general flow of the narrative. So uh it's more clear later on that he's talking about Babylon. And then of course, when you look in the book of Revelation and chapters 17 and 18, the city of Babylon takes a major, major uh uh major cent central place there. Um other people see it though as maybe it's actually Satan, Lucifer. So there's those five I will statements, there's the morning star uh language that's used in chapter fourteen. Uh so people see that as like uh satanic references um although perhaps Satan was behind what was going on in Babylon. Uh so maybe maybe it could be a bit of a both and uh but yeah, that's that's sort of the other other position.

Dave:

Yeah. We don't know much about Satan. I remember when I first started studying the Bible, I started looking for the fall of Satan's story in Genesis like an idiot, and um it's not in there. So you have to like find other places in the Bible that maybe tell this story. One of the places they go to is Isaiah 14, which describes this. It's called a taunt psalm against the king of Babylon, and the language there, yeah, it could it could fit an arrogant, prideful human ruler. Um, certainly does, definitely does, but it could also, some people say, spill beyond its banks and be talking about something else, something greater than that human ruler, something that was um maybe beyond a human tyrant. So here's what it says how you are fallen from heaven, right? So, like, when did a human tyrant fall from heaven? Oh, day star, that's the word Lucifer, the Latin term Lucifer, morning star, um Hebrew Helel ben Shakar. You said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven, I will raise my throne above the stars of God. So some people say the stars of God is the angels, and this was like Satan's desire to exalt himself above um his place. And so perhaps this can be interpreted in a bigger sense. There were some Jewish apocalyptic writers and Christian theologians which saw this passage as typological, and a secondary reference there could be to Satan, maybe the king that's behind Babylon, or maybe Babylon's fall was an illustration of Satan's fall, or maybe there's a pattern of pride there that's happening. I can see all those things being legit. Um, I think Tertullian said that, Origen, also Jerome. And I did want to just mention this book, so I know we're not allowed to do two books, but Heiser actually has this. It's not gonna be an option for voting for the can't vote for this, but he wrote this book called The Unseen Realm. There's the flag. And in this book, he makes the case that there are demonic uh forces, there are little gods that are territorial in nature. And I thought this was relevant to your section of Isaiah 14 to 23. So here he quotes Deuteronomy twelve thirty-two, verse eight, where it says, When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the people according to the number of the sons of God. And so Heiser says, What's happening there is that the sons of God are these little gods, these demonic creatures, these other supernatural beings in the unseen realm that are given certain boundaries, certain geographies, certain territories. Like we see in the book of Daniel, there's the prince of Persia that's battling against uh I think it's Michael, right? The archangel there. And Heiser says though each like geographical territory has some kind of supernatural, spiritual being like who's has some jurisdiction there. And so I thought I'd mention that because as you overviewed all of those chapters and they all have different geographical territories, it's like, woe to this person, woe to that person. Maybe it's beyond uh just human nations. Maybe there's something like spiritual war going on there too. So Michael Heiser, if you're interested, he talks about that. But now let's get to the actual main event here. So the text, your passage, Isaiah 24 and 25. I took notes. Look, a whole page of notes on Bob's sermon.

Bob:

Look at that, man.

Dave:

Because it's a commitment. I pay attention when you preach, and I wrote some things down, man. So you had some good points. I don't know if there's anything you wanted to highlight here or go deeper into. Otherwise, I can just shoot out some questions for you.

Bob:

Just shoot out some questions. Just go rapid fire. Okay. Take the zip line.

Dave:

All right. So the first part, rest in the coming judgment. Um this is a brutal passage about how God's gonna destroy not just one territory, but the whole earth uh at the end. How would this be something that I can find rest in? Why is this passage something that I can hold on to and as a result get rest?

Bob:

Well, I remember I was also assigned uh to preach Revelation 16, um the bold judgments, uh, last fall. So I keep getting assigned these end-of-the-world scorching texts every fall. We'll see what happens next year. Um, but it it's it's a lot of people see that as being parallel here to what's happening um in the book of Isaiah. And I do think the main application here is is that no matter how um how much injustice you've faced in this world, no matter how much it seems like people have gotten away, that the point of this dissection, as well as the the bowls in Revelation 16, is that one day justice will be finally served. Nobody's gonna get away with anything, even though it appears like they are. Sometimes justice is served now, but in the end, justice will finally be served and uh sin will be extinguished, people will will experience um the just judgment for their sin. So um the reason that that's a comforting thing is because uh too often we you know we can live with grudges, we can live with feeling um we can expend mental, mental, physical, emotional energy over these things when it would just be easier for us to say, Lord, I I trust that you are in control and you're gonna take care of this. Um I think applies here.

Dave:

What kind of sins or rebellion is Isaiah highlighting that would bring about a global ruin? What got them into trouble?

Bob:

I think I think a total rejection of God. And that's uh again, not to parallel it again with with Revelation sixteen, but if you look on the folks there that are the the rebellious, the people, the earth dwellers, is the word that John uses, um, those are people who want absolutely nothing to do with God. And even when the judgments come, like this is God's last, God's holding back all of his judgment, but then as he's pouring it out slowly, when it's happening to people, they still are angry with him. They still are shouting and cursing him. And uh I think you you see a similar picture here happening in Isaiah 24. So judgment's coming, um, and yet they're still not turning back. You know, they're mourning over the loss of their wine and and and the and their their their fun that they think they're having, but it's really it's apart from what what i it's it's it's apart from uh living a life for God.

Dave:

Yeah. Um so you mentioned this is called the mini apocalypse. What other scriptures are there in the Bible that would give color to this end time event? You mentioned some passages in Revelation. Are there other places we would go in the Bible to help us get a full picture of what's coming? There's a lot of cross-references here.

Bob:

Anywhere else that we would I mean, I'm I I I I found it very interesting when I was looking through this that if you look through Revelation 16 all the way through 21, a lot of those elements are actually present here, both in chapter 24 and 25. Um I'm not sure which other ones you're actually referring to. You wanted me to think about, but just didn't know if you came across anything else.

Dave:

I know there's some specific quotations like 1 Corinthians 15 mentions where death is your sting.

Bob:

Yeah, of course, yeah, and in in the song there is the first Corinthians 15 as well as um I think there was one other one that was used, but yeah, 1 Corinthians 15. Paul picks up on that. That's the the the taunting that he uses with uh with death itself, but yeah.

Dave:

Trash talking with death. Yep. So let's get to the good stuff, chapter 25. Um how is this particular section helpful to give me hope? How how can I um use this particular beautiful song here in chapter 25 to uh stir up my affections for the hope of Jesus?

Bob:

Well, I I used that the illustration about the the bully here, and you you were reminded me that we had we had gotten that from uh Tim Mackey when we did our week-long um seminar last year.

Dave:

True story. So Tim Mackey was telling us about the bully thing, and his son had a bully at school, and the bully got transferred to another school, right? So that was a day of great rejoicing in Tim Mackey's son's life, right? Uh not that you would wish harm to come upon another person, but it was a relief. The bully was no more. Uh, and so I think there's a sense in which this passage brings up similar feelings. Tim Mackey kind of um brought that out well, and I'm glad that you added that in because it helps us understand why would we want to rejoice about something.

Bob:

It's a song of vindication, you know, the idea that the and I didn't use this one, but I think that was also a good a good illustration at the end of the Matrix, if you ever see that, the Matrix Revolutions, I think. When all the machines are defeated, somebody just gets up and shouts, The War is over, the war is over, right? And there's there's rejoicing, and that's that's what we're we're seeing here. Finally, uh evil is defeated, and the people of God can rejoice uh at the fact that God has has done this both personally and corporately. So there's that personal piece and there's the corporate piece of the song uh that comes in here. Um so there's a complement to these two chapters. You see the judgment coming, justice being served in chapter twenty-four, and then chapter twenty-five, and and and in twenty-four, the song of the earth is is stopping, and in twenty-five, the new song of the people of God resting in in his vindication begins.

Dave:

So it's quite a contrast, right? So it's like one of these cities is bad, and one of these cities is good.

Bob:

It's the best of times, it's the worst of times. Yeah, well, he also, I mean, my f which I didn't get to get too into, but in chapter uh twenty-five, verse ten and eleven, we see this picture of vindication where God's hand is resting on the mountain, and he talks about Moab, this this enemy, who who is trampled down, he's like a star a straw trampled in a dung hill. Like he's like he's in dung trying to swim, and he can't move his hands because he's finally and fully defeated. This is what God's gonna do to those who uh who who stand against him. And we use that image of Harvey Weinstein um there as a as an example of how this can happen.

Dave:

He's done in their life. He can't get out.

Bob:

Yeah.

Dave:

You know, I was like scrolling through this weekend, and there was this guy who robbed a convenience store. So he goes in, he's got a weapon, he's like, give me all the cash, and then the the lady behind the cashier's counter like slipped out and she goes out the door. This is all on the security camera. She leaves, and somehow she locked him in. So, like, he's you know getting the cash and stuff, and then he goes to leave, and then he can't get out, right? So first he's trying to like bang himself against the window door thing, and he can't get it, and then he's trying to shoot it, it's not opening. And then he finally gets to the point at the end where he's like, please, he's begging, he's on his knees, please, please let me out, please let me out, and then the cops come and of course arrest him. And I was thinking, that's kind of like swimming in a dunghill. The guy was just that's where it is, man.

Bob:

Nowhere to go.

Dave:

He was caught in nowhere. There's you can run, but you can't hide, type of thing.

Bob:

Yeah. Now, of course, you mentioned about the other scriptures, so we had uh in when we actually get to the final part of the song, uh God swallowing up and eating death. What's for dinner? Right? So that's the uh uh yeah, the first Corinthians 15. But then also the tears being wiped away from their eyes is of course the Revelation 21, or 20 yeah, 21, where God's gonna wipe away their tears uh from their eyes. So that so there's a lot of Isaiah echoed in Revelation.

Dave:

You know, I miss Tim Keller. I was listening to a sermon of his last night. Not this, but I remember him talking about the swallowed-up death thing.

Bob:

Yeah.

Dave:

And he was saying, when you swallow something, it becomes a part of you. Right? So, like in that image, the bad stuff that happens to us, like you said, like the burning fire through the forest, the char actually created something, something good in the end. Like when when death is swallowed, it actually becomes something that God can now use for good. He's now swallowed it up and he's now taken it upon himself, and now he's gonna bring somehow he's gonna bring this all to to become something that's even wonderful because of his victory. So we're gonna go. Right. You know what's interesting here, this in verse seven, it talks about this blanket, the blanket that blankets over all the covering. The covering that's cast. Yeah. That one. I guess there was some sort of blanket that they would put over a dead body, like it was an image of covering. And that, of course, will be removed. So you said three applications. Number one, don't hold grudges. Number two, sing in the rain. Number three, don't miss the mountain. How can we apply that practically in our lives Monday through Friday, October 20th? How can we really make sure that we don't miss the mountain today?

Bob:

Specifically the mountain piece, not the other ones?

Dave:

I mean, all three. What does that look like for me?

Bob:

Well, I think the uh the holding a grudge one, I think, is something a lot of us implicitly do. Uh, you know, we we might not say it, but we hold on to something in our heart for for later on. And um over the years, I think that's something that I uh I I've learned a lot about. I've learned just to kind of let it go and give it to the Lord. And I think practically that means uh, you know, in your prayer life, actually making that a pe a part of what you do. Resting in the fact that God, again, God's gonna God's gonna bring justice, and so I don't need to worry about it. So Lord, I'm gonna let you I'm gonna let you take it upon yourself. Singing in the rain. I mean, that's when bad this is this is what sets I think Christians apart is the idea that even when bad things happen, we can still have joy. So the next time something something crazy happens in your life, something something sad, um, you can still turn to the Lord and say, Lord, thank you for for the grace that you've given me, even in the midst of this situation. And when you do that, people that are around you, especially if they're not Christians, see something different about you. Um and then the mountain piece, um th th this this I think is super applicable because we so many people worry about what's going on in our world. I mean, if you scroll through social media, you go on and you watch the news, um, everybody's worried about something that's gonna happen, you know. AI or wars or health or or whatever it is. Um Christians don't run around like the world is falling apart because in the end we know it's not. And what it means to not miss the mountain is to say, I know that the mountain is secure, and uh one day I'm gonna be there feasting with with my king, no matter what happens right now. And so that that's not just a mindset shift, but it's also a confidence that you can live with each and every day. But you you only do that when you focus on the future and the end goal and you look forward uh with expectation.

Dave:

There's this great Shannon Shane song that we sing once in a while. Um I know how the story ends, we will be with you again. You've you know the you've already won. Kind of reminds me of that song. Like the mountain is there. That'd be a good one to sing. We know how the story ends. It ends on a mountain with a feast. You can sing that song in the ring. Yeah, absolutely. Well, good word. Anything else before we move on to the next segment?

Bob:

I don't think so, other than the fact that Jesus brings up the vine in John 15.

Dave:

Oh, you want to connect it to that? So yeah.

Bob:

Well, that was I mean, there was just a lot of vineyard stuff there, but then you also gave me that idea about the him him him drinking the sour wine, of course, for us. He drank God's judgment so that we could we don't have to experience judgment. So um I think that's a lot of ties to the gospel here.

Dave:

But then bring it home with John 15. Connect that.

Bob:

So Jesus says, I'm the vine, you're the branches, if you remain in me, then you will produce much fruit. Which, of course, the image that you see in in Isaiah twenty-seven at the end of this mini apocalypse is that the vineyard that was producing wild groups is now a fruitful vineyard. So Isaiah says, In that day you sing about the fruitful vineyard where God is gonna be, where God is going to um uh watch over you, he's gonna water you know, water your life day and night, he's gonna be with you, nobody's gonna harm you. It's gonna be this beautiful, beautiful vineyard that you're that you're part of. And the way that you are able to experience that is when you give your life to Christ and then you're tied to him. You you're you're part of the fruit of his of his vine.

Dave:

So really the only way I can be fruitful. The only way I can be part of chapter twenty four.

Bob:

And there is abiding in him, being a part of him. Apart from me, you can do nothing.

Dave:

The truth is, I'm part of chapter twenty-four. But because of Christ, I can I get to be part of chapter twenty-five.

Bob:

Yep. There you go.

Dave:

All right. Well, thank you very much. This sermon segment was sponsored by our men's young adults small group. James Rickershauser and Caleb Moore are leading a group Saturday mornings, and they would love to hear from you. If you are a guy age 18 to 30, that is a great group for you to plug into. You can find their contact information on our website. They would love to hear from you and get to know you a little bit. God is doing wonderful things amongst the young men in our church. Don't miss out on that fellowship opportunity. Now it's time to do a little sprinting. Tim Euchis is the only one in the room with proper running shoes, but we will do our best, I think, to sprint. Closer than mine, man. Closer.

Noah:

Well, what do you got for us today, Noah? All right. I was told to bring you a fastball this week, so here we go. In honor of the World Series. See if we got a showheiotani here too. Who told you this? All right, so this week's theology sprint question is. I noticed he didn't answer that. Here we go. Are Christians commanded by God to forgive those who sin against them and do not repent for the sin they committed? If so, why does God not forgive those who sin against them, sin against him, and do not repent for the sin they committed? So this was a discussion we were having the other week.

Bob:

Didn't were we just talking about this, or was this actually a question that came in about the because uh with the Erica Kirk forgiving her husband's killer? People were all upset that she did that when he hadn't repented.

Dave:

Mm-hmm. Why don't you take a stab? We got an email from a separate congregant that asking for claims. Yeah, that's right, that's right. That's right. Okay, cool.

Bob:

Yeah, I'd say we So um personally I think you what when it comes to forgiveness, when when somebody has wronged you, even if they haven't repented, you can still offer forgiveness, but a lot of people make the distinction between the fact that full forgiveness doesn't happen until both parties come together. You offer forgiveness, put it off your your um off your back, but uh it's until it's not until the the other person comes and says, I I I am offering I'm offering repentance, I want to say I'm sorry for what I did, that full forgiveness and reconciliation can happen. But I don't know that you should withhold forgiveness until that time. So I don't know. What would you add to that?

Dave:

I'll just read my email. The the person wanted to know. So I said, uh, good question. Ken Sandy in his book, The Peacemaker, explains that forgiveness can be approached at a two-stage process. The first stage requires having an attitude of forgiveness, and the second, granting forgiveness. Having an attitude of forgiveness is unconditional and is a commitment you make to God. And then Sandy goes on to explain granting forgiveness, however, is a conditional gift based on the repentance of the offender and takes place between you and that person. So he distinguishes those two phases. He calls the first phase positional forgiveness and the second phase uh transactional forgiveness. But to answer your question theologically, why Jesus was able to offer that forgiveness, I think is demonstrating the first part, the attitude of forgiveness. But for them to actually have their slate clean, their righteousness given to them by Christ, they have to come by faith alone, just like anyone else. So that's the only really reason why anybody can be forgiven of anything, because the payments already been made. So someone has to pay. Either Christ is gonna pay on your behalf or you're gonna pay. Um, so we thank God that He's paid that price for us. Follow up? That's good. All right, very good. Short enough for you to make it short. Yes. Some people, you know, it's unfortunate, like Bob was saying today, don't hold grudges. It it will eat you alive. The bitterness will eat you alive. Uh, forgiveness is something God gives us. When we forgive, we pull heaven down to earth. Bitterness and resentment and unforgiveness is from hell. When we choose to hold on to those grudges, we're bringing hell up into our lives. And so I would encourage you to let go of that stuff. Trust it in the hands of Almighty God. All right, guys. That is our show. Thank you for watching another episode of Behind the Pulpit. Pastor Bob, thank you for being with us today. Thank you for preaching our sermon on Isaiah 24 and 25.

Bob:

What are we doing this week?

Dave:

This week, we're gonna be fast forwarding a little bit more in the book of Isaiah, all the way to chapter 36. Whoa. And another 10 chapters. We've got to make up some ground there in between. At least I think that's what we're doing.

Bob:

I feel like I'm I'm smelling another chart coming on.

Dave:

I feel like more ziplining is happening in the future. We'll see if you get a round of applause before your sermon like Pastor Bob did yesterday.

Tim:

A round of applause?

Dave:

What happened?

Tim:

Wait, James.

Dave:

Hold on, the show's not over yet. I forgot this is the this is the after show. What was that?

Bob:

James ended the the end of the video. The video by saying, and now Pastor Bob's gonna give our sermon. Let's welcome him in anybody started clapping.

Dave:

Yeah. That's good. I'll clip it around.

Bob:

Alright, well, thank you. I don't deserve that. I appreciate that.

Tim:

Nothing's matter. It was just funny. Pastor Bob's just kind of standing there just like, well, I don't deserve that. Anyway.

Bob:

Didn't do it in the first server. I was like, that's sure what they were clapping.

Dave:

Too early. I thought the first service kind of missed the opportunity to welcome you up there.

Tim:

Well, the first review, you know, if you're listening, if you're under the sound of my voice and you go to the nine o'clock sermon, make sure you make our pastors feel a little more welcome next week.

Dave:

Alright, guys. Thanks for watching our show. Have a good day.