Behind The Pulpit
Our weekly pastors podcast where we discuss fun new stories, church events, previous sermons. As well as answering interesting questions from you!
Behind The Pulpit
Into the Upside Down
Behind the Pulpit returns for the new year with Pastor Bob and Pastor Dave back at the table, easing into 2026 with humor, reflection, and a wide-ranging In the News conversation. From holiday recaps and cultural commentary to a substantive discussion on Stranger Things, global politics, socialism, Venezuela, and notable public figures engaging faith, the episode models how Christians can think carefully, critically, and charitably about the stories shaping our moment. The Book War also resumes, with two very different recommendations aimed at helping believers think more deeply about truth, limits, and faithfulness.
In the sermon recap, the conversation centers on the launch of the new series Upside Down Glory, drawn from 1 Corinthians 1. Pastor Bob unpacks the core claim of the message—that human weakness and limitation are not obstacles to God’s glory, but the very stage on which He displays it. The discussion explores disability, the image of God, cultural ideas of “normal,” and how the church is called to respond to weakness not with avoidance or pity, but with honor, presence, and faith shaped by the gospel. Together, the pastors reflect on how embracing dependence reshapes both personal discipleship and life together as a church.
The episode closes with a Theology Sprint tackling the doctrine of biblical inspiration—what it means to say Scripture is God-breathed, how inspiration relates to inerrancy and illumination, and why this doctrine matters for faith and practice. It’s a thoughtful wrap-up that invites listeners to begin the year grounded not in confidence in themselves, but in trust in the God who speaks.
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
2:23: Holiday Recap
6:41 In The News: Stranger Things
18:26 In the News: Venezuela, Celebrity Conversions, Iran
36:32 The Great Book War
47:33 Audience Questions
55:32 Sermon Recap
1:11:59 Theology Sprint
Music
"Ventura"
Morgan Taylor
U76EPPNJDYZYU0Y7
Hey everybody, it is 2026, a very happy new year to you. We have not had a podcast in a long, long time. It's been so long that my dear friend, my dear pastor colleague, my PLT co-member here has been rip van winkling himself underneath of a tree somewhere and just totally grew out the beard. You remember the picture from the last show? Do you remember the picture of Bob with the beard? How many extra? Well, Bob decided he's gonna make it a reality. Bob decided we're gonna go for it. And somehow he talked his wife into letting him have a beard for a while. Man. And this is what happened, Pastor Dave. You know, there's there's different stages in a man's life.
Bob:I can't breathe. I feel like I should just be doing this.
Dave:Have you heard of the expression that you got different seasons of a man's life? First, he believes in Santa Claus and eventually he becomes Santa Claus. That's like you're in that phase now.
Bob:Apparently I am. So the question is, is your beard better than my beard now? No way.
Tim:I think that Pastor Bob has moved to the top of the beer power rankings.
Dave:Wait, wait, Tim, do yours light up? No, yours do too. What?
Tim:There's a little button.
Dave:Oh. There's a button. Oh, hold up a hot second.
Bob:Wow.
Dave:I didn't even realize that I'm on the air.
Bob:I feel like I just went into the upside down, Pastor Dave.
Dave:Happy nappy.
Bob:Happy new year. Noah is also scoring a pair.
Tim:There it is.
Bob:Look at your lights, Noah! My lights don't work. Where's your blinkers, man? Is there a tap? Check for a white. He got a defective one right there.
Dave:Pull the tab. Pull the tap. Noah taps.
Bob:Oh, oh, oh.
Dave:Wait, they match his water bottle.
unknown:Oh!
Bob:It's like the green lantern over there. Yeah.
Dave:You look great. You know what? 2026 is here.
Bob:Two weeks off, and things get a little a little crazy. A little uh what what do the kids say? A little uh what what do the kids say for crazy nowadays? 6-7. They just nobody knows what it means.
Dave:Alright, well, in all seriousness, we are so glad to be back. It is a new year, and we are excited about all God is doing here at NBC. But first, hey, how was your Christmas? How was your holiday? How was your new year? How was things in the Urbig household? Did you get everything you wanted for Christmas? Did you get those Costco socks that you were hoping that you were hoping you would have under the tree?
Bob:Because I went to Costco and I uh I I I bought them, Pastor Dick.
Dave:Yeah. Well that you know, it's easy how you can make that happen.
Bob:Oh, there we go. All right. So I feel like I can breathe again. Yes.
Dave:Oh, do I still have some picture of the tree on Christmas Eve with all the presents underneath of it, man? Was that a reality?
Bob:You know what? Actually, my so I was talking with a few other people about how they they received gifts growing up. And somebody said, Oh, yeah, we we gave our kids three. They got they got uh something and experience and uh a book and experience and something else. And I said, No, no, actually my mom, they just they just gave us a lot of gifts. Yeah. Maybe it wasn't quite that big, but we did we did we were a big gift giving house growing up.
Dave:I s I gathered that. Yeah.
Bob:So my uh my uh Yeah, my expectations had to be tempered as I got older.
Tim:The best part about the illustration was I believe in the four o'clock service the picture went up and some you hear some kid go, wow We're very excited.
Bob:Along with uh a lot, yeah, the Costco socks got got a couple uh couple chuckles there for the new for the new year or Christmas.
Dave:I bought my socks at Costco too, man. In fact, I'm due for an extra.
Bob:Yeah, yeah, Costco gets a bad rap. They have brands, they have some good they have some good stuff sometimes.
Dave:Dude, you got the you can go like all the way on, you can go blinking, blinking fast, or you can go like blinking slow. There's multiple options here.
Bob:That's true. Next year, maybe that's when I'm gonna get you a 2027. That'll be my Christmas gift to you.
Dave:I love it. Yeah. If we make it that far.
Bob:That's true. That's true. Who knows? Who knows? It's a new year, Pastor Dave. So did you have a a nice relaxing holiday? I did, I did. Everybody seemed to be be pretty healthy, and uh we got to relax. Um my big big gathering was the 21st. We went over to my uh my uh my grandmother's house. That's kind of my my dad's side of the family gets together. Uh bunch of us were there, and then Christmas Eve, we didn't we didn't do very much. Christmas Day, my mom came over, and my sister my sister wasn't wasn't feeling well, so she didn't come. Um but it was her fortieth birthday this past Saturday, so I I went down for a couple hours for her celebration that some friends threw. So yeah, so it was good, good. And New Year's, uh New Year's was also good. Amanda and I went out for a little uh little dinner, New Year's Eve. I caught the Stranger Things finale, and then I I went to bed and didn't wake up until the future.
Dave:Well, what's the final verdict on the Stranger Things like eight-year-long six, seven season?
Bob:I w I was hoping to save that for the in the news segment. Oh, okay. We can wait on that. We'll come back on that one and we can dissect. Yeah. There's there's a lot of different opinions about that one.
Dave:Well, my Christmas was pretty good too. Thanks for asking. And uh I got a couple cool gifts. The uh my my highlight gift.
Bob:That's what my wife says. My wife never gives me a chance.
Dave:It's like you buy your own gifts at Costco. I asked myself, how was my Christmas? That's how it works here. So my daughter got me these theological statues. Alex comes up from Atlanta with four little boxes for me, and inside is Calvin.
Bob:He was just waiting to share this. Rile. You can see how excited he's getting.
Dave:Yeah, and Luther, I got busts of like reformed theological, Calvinistic giants on my shelves now. So I brought two to the office. You'll have to drop my up by my office on your way up today and see the two of them. And I kept two at home. So that was that was one of the highlighted gifts for for me this year.
Bob:By the way, speaking of the the disability series in John Calvin and Martin Luther, I do have a big, big old book called Disability in the Christian Tradition, and there's a chapter on Luther and Calvin. So I'll have to let you read that.
Dave:Looking forward to that one. Yeah, there you go. You've been doing a lot of research for this series, haven't you?
Bob:I have. Well, it's gonna be part of my it's uh I didn't get to read that yet, but it's gonna be part of my my my doctoral studies. So I do have a bunch of books. Um I've started to make my way through, but I've only scratched the surface.
Tim:Yeah. Here at NBC, we have an amazing preschool on campus called Little Footprints Learning Center. I myself am a proud Little Footprints Learning Center alumnus. We have such an amazing team over there that does an amazing job of providing incredible Christian education for our young kids. Little Footprints has a wide variety of amazing options and small class sizes for ages two and a half up to five. If you or someone you know is looking for quality Christian preschool education and want to learn more about little footprints, come out to their open house. The open house will be on January 17th from 10 to 11 right here on the campus of Millington Baptist Church. There you'll get to meet the directors, the staff, see the facility, and just learn all you can about little footprints. And then registration for 2026-2027 begins on January the 12th, uh, starting with the currently enrolled students, and then on January the 13th, siblings of previous or currently enrolled children can register. Then on January 15th, if you're an NBC family who is looking for a preschool, you can register, and then January 19th, we will open up to the public. I said it before, but Little Footprints was such a huge part of the life of my family. Both my brother and myself graduated from Little Footprints, and we were so much the better for doing so. If you or someone you know are looking for a quality Christian preschool, look no further than Little Footprints.
Dave:Alright. Well, uh, we hope you guys had a nice holiday, and we are way behind catching you guys up what's been happening in the news feed. So let's get to that segment, okay? In the news. How do you like my pause there? How do you like that?
Bob:It was like when I play baseball, if you were to do the wind up and you were to pause at the top, it was to throw people off, and then you would just whip the ball. That's what I do. That's what you do. You're like you're pausing at the top of the windup.
Dave:Yeah. News. Yeah. And you're you're like almost almost.
Bob:All of a sudden, here comes the nasty slider right at you.
Dave:Is it is it it's borderline balking when I do that? All right. So um a couple stories to highlight. Let's just start with Stranger Things, okay? So you saw it. Um I actually saw it too. So Okay. Um I also watched. There's been a lot to talk about. Okay. So I mean these things have come up.
Bob:Thanks for asking if Tim watched it.
Tim:No, did you watch Stranger Things?
Bob:I have not watched since season one. Okay. Well, season one, I think, was the best season. So it it could have ended at season one.
Dave:It could have, but what is your opinion on how things developed and how they decided to end that series?
Bob:Well, um, I heard a couple people say the the ending by the way, spoilers here. I'm I'm not gonna I'm not gonna filter this.
Dave:Yeah, you might want to turn this off.
Bob:If you were if you're a fan and you haven't watched By the way, if you're a fan and you haven't watched it yet, what do you what do you what are you doing? It just came out like a week ago. Um So I don't know. I don't know. At one level I kind of enjoyed it, at another level I uh I I like some people were commenting on the power rankings. Like all of a sudden 11 at the end is like Captain Marvel. She's flying through the air, she there's this enormous kaiju like monster, that's what the mind flare was, and it turns into this big upside-down spider looking thing. Battle, you know, at the end, and then um you know Vecna almost felt like he kind of gave up. Uh, and then Joyce is coming in, chopping his head off. He he dead. He definitely did. Yeah. Um so so I don't know.
Dave:He wasn't dead, that's the thing. She he was like still twitching, you know.
Bob:Yeah, I know, I know.
Dave:She had to keep on hacking away at the neck.
Bob:So what was confusing for me, now I I thought season one and season four, in my opinion, were the best ones. Um and they didn't do very much with like at the end of season four, the earth opens up, there's smoke coming out, and then they come back for season five and they've just put metal plates down, like, oh, nothing's happened. And apparently nobody, nobody in this town where there was a big, enormous thing comes up, has even put all everything together that something's going on here. The military's taken over martial law. So that was odd, I thought. Um you know, uh there was some interesting things, I think, with uh the Holly storyline and the the abyss and the wormhole and all that. Apparently they had thought of that like back in season one. This was where they were leading, and the the upside down is actually not an alternate dimension, it's a a portal, it's a bridge to to the actual alternate dimension. And there was all this backstory from apparently a stage play that you know there's a stage play that tells the backstory of Henry Creel Vecna's life. Called uh something about the shadows, I think. But how many people have actually seen that? So you got all this background about how he how he became who he is, and um you know, about this other dimension X, all this backstory that you don't really actually get in in the on-screen performance. So that to me was a little I feel like they should have given us some more. I mean, they gave us a bit, but not not that much. Um but the the most the most uh irritating thing to me was that they they made this kind of whole season about uh Will coming out as being gay. So you know, whatever. I mean, it's it's a secular show if that's that's what they want to do. But the the the underlying message here was that basically the only way that you can defeat the evil guy, Vecna, is if it and Will got his powers because he somehow embraced who he was, he he expressed his individualism, uh he he let everybody know about the fact that he doesn't like girls and then and then he's a superhero. So so so what's the show saying? I don't know. And then the Duffer brothers in interviews said that that was one of the things they were leading to for the last ten years. And to me that was like, really? Really? This this show that kind of started off as as this little kind of motif type of thing ended like that. I don't know. At some level I liked it, at some level I was annoyed. What did you think?
Dave:Uh I was not expecting that weird ideological climax about coming out, and I thought this is like a 10-minute speech. Feels completely irrelevant to the plot. It just felt like it was a shoehorned in here's a secular worldview thing that we're gonna make the the pinnacle of this show, and the way to conquer your fears, I think is that's the message. The way you he was not afraid anymore after that, remember? So the way to conquer your fears afraid anymore, right? Is you have to like tell everybody your sexual preferences, right? So this is like Carl Truman, the expressive individualism very much is my identity. Um, this is who I am. I'm the deepest level of me is who I'm attracted to sexually. And that's I've got to be honest about that, and you've got to accept me for that, and then I'm able to- And I gotta get everybody into a room, even the people I don't know for more than half a second, and tell them. Yeah.
Bob:And then they gotta give me a big hug.
Dave:Right. And then after that, I can like conquer Vecna. That that was a an odd thing to shoehorn in there. All right. I love the 80s stuff, so it's always fun to kind of think about I don't know.
Bob:It is still the best decade. And they did work in a print song, so that was kind of cool at the end. I thought about that. The record that scene was so good. Yeah. I heard someone say that is she dead? That's the question.
Tim:It's like the top is.
Bob:I don't think so, man. I saw her by the waterfall and everything.
Dave:Yeah.
Tim:I heard someone say that the way that they used Purple Rain in the show, it made them feel like they were listening to the song for the first time ever again. Okay. It's like wow.
Bob:I I did I did like the Purple Rain moment, I will tell you that. That was pretty cool.
Dave:Tim, in terms of production value, cinematography.
Tim:I mean, it looks really good. I overall, see, I I have this opinion that so I I I have the same opinion about Stranger Things that I did I do with like the Rings of Power show, where it's like, I enjoy the product that is. Like I sat there and I enjoyed watching it. Yeah. But I could I mean you could you could pick apart what's wrong with it all day, like plot holes and other things, plot armor, which is you know, hand and comes hand in hand with sci-fi anyway. Um but I I think that we kind of live in a society now where people have a really hard time separating like enjoyment from like looking for mistakes. So I I I could I agree with you and I think everybody's a critic, right? Yes, everyone, everyone now is a is a film critic um that deserves a vote and everyone's opinion matters. And you know, it's good to voice your opinion about things, but I I I find that I'm able to enjoy things despite of you know the things that are wrong with it sometimes.
Bob:But so what you're saying is no matter what they put out there, you would have enjoyed it.
Tim:No, uh not necessarily, but I like the overall storyline I I I enjoyed. Um, you know, there's obviously the plot holes and stuff, and then the whole thing with Will, I I was they really didn't do anything with that.
Bob:It was just like, oh, I'm I'm I'm gay, and then there was the one scene with Mike where it's like we're best friends, and then like it was not a factor for the entire rest of the show until that like w last scene, which is like a factor in the finale, you know, explicitly, but the the rest of the season was kind of leading up to you saw kinda Robin, once you do this, now we gotta say this, and it was like the pinnacle of the end of the volume two, which is probably the most criticized. Yeah. Um anyway, so the the point was I I really think season one was great. Season four I thought was was really good, and they didn't do enough with it when they got into the next to season five. Although I did enjoy the finale itself. Um as ridiculous as Nancy Rambo was, that was kind of fun, you know, and then you got Dustin and Steve poking at the end of poking at this thing that's like the size of two Empire State Buildings. They were doing their part. Somehow they climbed up on the cliffs in about 30 seconds, like it would have taken them a half a day to get up there, but yet they got up there with a flamethrower. But it's TV, you know, whatever.
Dave:I think one of the overall themes is courage and ordinary people though. And that's true.
Bob:That's always what they've the show's kind of been been a little bit about. And I did enjoy the ending where they kind of put put up their stuff, they're leaving childhood into adulthood, and of course, because all the characters are actually.
Tim:There's a there's a whole movement now that people are really convinced that they're actually not done. That there's gonna be another episode that comes out that like things are not like there's I I think they're done.
Dave:What else can you do with it?
Tim:Well, they're saying that there's scenes, it's just like if you if you look into like at the graduation scene, you know, there ever every single one who's sitting in the audience is is sitting in the same pose, and there's people who are didn't normally used to wear glasses and they're wearing glasses now, and there's this weird color gray that keeps popping up, and that there's a couple other things. I I don't think that they're done.
Bob:But there's people are telling me the one other thing I did think about.
Dave:In any other show or season or episode would just be a complete money grab. That that yeah, there's no there's the plot is over. Yeah, anything if they come up with anything else, it is it is the the equivalent to Jake Paul, Mike Tyson. This is just a simple financial decision to kind of spin-off with the younger character.
Bob:I did I did enjoy Derek though. Delightful Derek. Delightful Derek. Yeah, he was fun.
Tim:Interesting use of words for a kid that young, but you know.
Bob:Hey, I I will one of my favorite things about the the nitpicky plot hole stuff is Max, the character of Max, was in the coma for like two years. Yeah. And then comes back to life, and people were pointing out that Hopper's in the room, but the last time, as far as she knows, Hopper's dead, and she just acts like, oh hey, what's up, Hopper? That and no one knew where her mom was.
Tim:And she still graduated on time. Good for that.
Bob:Yeah, he she went into a coma because Hopper was in Russia in season four.
Dave:I forgot.
Bob:So she would have thought Hopper was dead, and then all of a sudden he's just there when she wakes up and she's not gonna acknowledge it. I thought that was I didn't know, I didn't notice it when I first watched it, but I thought later on, as people were pointing it out, yeah, you know, she Hopper! You were in the mindscape too.
Tim:Yeah. Hey guys, we are less than two weeks away from night of revival. We are so excited. It's gonna be an incredible, powerful event where we are gonna start the new year by worshiping our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The band's getting ready, Noah's preparing his message. We are so excited to come together as a church and as a community and worship our Lord and Savior. This will be a perfect event to invite someone you know in your life that isn't close to Jesus. Whether you've been a Christian for 40 plus years, became a Christian yesterday, or you know someone who's not a Christian at all, or maybe you are watching this and you are exploring your faith, come out to Night of Revival where we will be worshiping Jesus and hearing about who he is. Night of Revival will be January the 16th, starting at 6 30 p.m. You do not want to miss it. It's gonna be incredible. Come out tonight of revival. Should we uh should we move on to the Wayland?
Dave:Let's move on. Let's go. Well, if you saw it, what did you think? We're curious. But another thing that happened in the news was a pretty significant political military um event. What was it, Friday night?
Bob:Entertainment to politics. And nowadays they're one of the same.
Dave:Switching gears without a clutch. So, you know, I mean, I think in the last 20 years we've watched the downfall spiral of Venezuela ever since Chavez kind of took the direction and in a socialistic way. And they've been complaining about this Maduro guy, but not really doing anything about the Maduro guy. And then Friday night, early Saturday morning, I woke up to some surprise news. I was not expecting that.
Bob:They went in, captured him, and extradited him to the US. Like, isn't he somewhere in New York or something?
Dave:Yeah, I think it's supposed to be in arrain today. Yeah. New York City for Ow.
Bob:Like just hop, hop, skip, and a jump over here.
Dave:Drug trafficking. Yeah, for drug trafficking. Uh he's basically narco-terrorism, and there's some uh illegal weapons issues going on, but bad guy, terrible guy, human trafficking, basically um shouldn't be president, uh very corrupt political system over there. And so uh that's pretty big news in Venezuela. Now there's controversy here because people are saying as such, there always will be what's the real motivation, right? So is it actually about stopping the narcotics, cocaine trafficking? Is it actually about human trafficking? Is it actually about the weapon stuff, or is it really about oil, or is it a combination of all these things? And so there's there's the controversy. The second controversy is are we allowed to do that without congressional approval and that kind of thing? So I don't know, man. Um when I was a kid, we had this thing in Panama, and there was this guy, Manuel Noriega, George H. W. Bush, who had very similar problems, right? So he was also uh trafficking in in illegal drugs, and we went down there and basically took him out as well for the same exact reason. And we didn't have no nobody had a problem? Nobody had a problem, and everybody was celebrating. So, I mean, right now, Venezuelans are happy, Venezuelans are celebrating. The the lady who was part of the counter movement was very happy. You see, parading in the streets, but yet over here you see people in the streets of New York City complaining, saying hands off Venezuela and things like that. So there's a little bit of a controversy going on with this story.
Bob:I saw a clip of Marco Rubo Marco Rubio getting interviewed, and the guy kept asking him about like this, and he just kept saying, All right, I I already explained this, but I'll tell you one more time. Yeah. About why this was something we did and what what our plan is.
Dave:Yeah. You know what I was reminded of yesterday, uh, which is absolutely hysterical. So Tim and Noah, you guys probably weren't even born yet. Oh my gosh. So when we got Noriega, we went down there to Panama to get him, and he took refuge in the Vatican Embassy, and we're not allowed in there. So he hung out in the embassy for a long time. And it was like a week. And you know how we got him out? Anyone know?
Bob:I don't remember.
Dave:This is hysterical. I think I remember. What they did was they pulled up a bunch of cars and set up speakers, and they played heavy metal music, like Guns N' Roses, Sweet Child of Mine, like the the cure. They were they were blasting this guy out of the Vatican Embassy with rock music at decibel levels that were Joshua going around painful, yeah. And uh after about a week of blasting like rock and roll music at the Vatican Embassy, he came out because he couldn't take it anymore, and then we arrested him. That's what happened. I I had I had completely forgotten about that whole story, but that that to me was uh a forgotten little uh military strategy gem of history there. So if can you imagine if if you're in Noriega in the Vatican Embassy and you're trying to be safe and they're blasting like whatever 80s heavy metallic.
Tim:So, what finally got you to come out? If I heard that Aerosmith song one more time, I don't know what I was getting.
Bob:What was that Guns N' Roses song, the Take Me Down to the Paradise City? Is it called Paradise City? Yes, yeah.
Dave:Yeah, it was it was called uh there was a technical term for it in terms of the strategy. Uh it was called like noise um torture or something like that. Uh and that's how they got him out. Oh man. So this has had precedent uh in terms of like you know, going in, taking out a dictator who has overstayed their welcome and us getting involved here as the United States of America.
Bob:Yeah, I mean it's it's uh speaking of the New York City thing, so it's interesting. I feel like we have sort of this this kind of ideological war going on. Uh so Zoran Mamdami just got another news story, just got uh inaugurated as mayor of New York City, and in his speech he talked about putting behind the rugged individualism and embracing collectivism. Warm. Warm collectivism, that's right. So there's gonna there's gonna be there's you know, this is a a fight over the spirit of what America has been versus what others think maybe it should be. And uh that may have something to do with the the protests and the hands-off Venezuela, and uh it's it's an interesting time to be alive here, Pastor Dave.
Dave:You know, I think you and I have talked about this before, but Charles Spurgeon in London was preaching at the same time as Karl Marx was alive, and it's at some point Karl Marx was living in London, he lived in a lot of different places, but Spurgeon was very directly engaging the culture war with Marx. Yeah, and so from the pulpit, for those of you who think we think we shouldn't have politics in the pulpit, just you know, Charles Spurgeon did not get your memo. So uh one of the lines that he said was fascinating. He said in terms of the difference between Christianity and Marxism or socialism, he said this Christianity teaches that all that I have is yours. Whereas Marxism teaches all that you have is mine. Right. And so Spurgeon used to like warn his parishioners, and we're talking about five thousand, six thousand people that are coming more than once a week to hear this dude preach. And he was saying that the root of this is that the oppressed are gonna rise up against the oppressor and then and they're going to put blood in the streets. Like this is what's gonna happen. If you let Marxism take over England, take over London, there's going to be, you know, uh this uprising. And so he would say, you can either have bloody streets or you can preach a bloody cross, but you can't have both these two things. These two worldviews are different. And England withstood the the call towards socialism in a very dissimilar way to other countries who actually were uh taken in by that ideology. And some say the reason is the pulpit. So sometimes pastors and theologians have to like speak out about certain ideologies and how they could be problematic. So I've seen some stuff that Mamdani is already talking about with regards to the seizure of certain properties, and I it to me it seems like theft. And I don't I don't know that this is okay, the kind of things that he's gonna be putting in. He wants to have government run grocery stores. I'm not too sure this is a good idea.
Bob:So I uh I did hear I don't know if this is part of the story um with Spurgeon and Marx, but I I I thought I heard somebody say one time that somebody asked Karl Marx who who he was most who he was most afraid of or who who who um opposed him the most and he would always say Spurgeon. So I don't know, maybe Mam Dami will think uh Henschel, yeah, Ervig. Oh get them.
Dave:Going back to the the whole Maduro story, so there's a couple of a couple countries that are not not happy, including uh Russia, right? And could you believe Putin has the audacity to say that you violated another country's national sovereignty? This guy who's still demanding territory. The irony of this statement of this guy saying, hey, what right do you have in the mirror?
Bob:It's like the hot coin the kettle black.
Dave:Yeah. So there's a long story here about, and I'm doing some research about what happened with the oil. And so obviously, Venezuela is a very rich oil company, resource, maybe the most oil in the world. And the problem is they didn't have the technology to get it out of the ground. So back in the 70s, the United States went in there to help them figure out how to get the stuff out of the ground. And then at some point along the way, though they were a thriving economy, the uh government took over all of that, uh, those resources and then turned the government into a socialist system, and then the country devolved. But there's still a cultural memory from people who are living in Venezuela of living free and living living prosperously. And my sense is unlike other times where we've gone in and removed, you know, um, you know, had a regime change type thing like in Iraq or Afghanistan and things got chaotic, I don't I don't predict that that's gonna happen in Venezuela because the people are very Western and they want to be free and they remember what it was like to not live under this guy. And I think to me, I feel a lot more hopeful about what's happening in Venezuela than other interventions.
Bob:Yeah. Seems like everywhere in the world the younger people are upset with socialism except in the US. There's like this romantic romantization about socialism here.
Dave:Well, somebody once said like the only people who have the liberty or you know, the only people who can praise the system of socialism are the people that have never had to suffer from having to live underneath of it, you know. All right. Pretty big story.
Bob:Lots of news stories, big news stories. Welcome to 2026, Pastor Dave.
Tim:My favorite quote that I saw from the uh the oil thing from Venezuela is I think some guy was getting interviewed from Venezuela, and they asked him, like, oh, what how do you feel if the United States was just doing this for oil? And he's like, I don't care. What do you think China and Russia wanted? The recipe for Aripus, which is a traditional Venezuelan dish. Yeah, exactly.
Bob:Well, the oil and the energy is a big deal because of the AI stuff. You can't build the AI infrastructure without energy. So I guarantee you that's part of what's behind it.
Dave:It is, and also um, this makes us less dependent on the sources of oil in places that where they hate us. And I I this could be 3D chess. We'll see as things develop. I did have a couple other news stories. I know that we were kind of done here, but I wanted to point out a couple things. So um Nicki Minaj. Nicki Minaj evidently made a profession of faith. Did you guys see this? No.
Bob:She's been saying some interesting things recently, especially about Nigeria and all that.
Dave:I do you guys think she's sometimes she legit a Christian now? I don't know. This is this is the news that I heard. I have not done enough research.
Bob:Is she Russell Brand or is she um who's the other guy? Uh the Kardashian Wow, what's his name?
Dave:Oh, the guy with the Jesus is King album. Yes, yes. Uh Kanye.
Bob:Is he con is she Kanye or is she Russell Brand? Yeah. That's the question.
Dave:Well I don't even know if we got the full story on Russell Brand.
Bob:I mean, she's there's some pictures of the case. Nicki Minaj is the one who did the WAP album?
Dave:No, that's Cardi B.
Bob:That's Cardi B?
Dave:Yeah. All right. December 27th. But she has some interesting. 2025. Here's the headline. Uh Nicki Minaj says she's reignited her relationship with God um and um inspired her to speak out for the persecuted Christians, particularly in Nigeria. So that happened. She participated in a conversation with Erica Kirk.
Bob:Oh, I did see that. Yeah.
Dave:She's becoming a vocal advocate for the persecuted church. Okay, that was the first conversion story. Uh not conversion, maybe maybe that's more like a rededication story or something.
Bob:Awakening story. Yeah.
Dave:The second conversion story I saw a couple days ago was the Dilbert guy. So the dude who did the cartoon, the Dilbert cartoonist.
Bob:Scott Adams. Um he's the one who has prostate cancer.
Dave:Yeah, he's he's definitely not healthy. But if you've ever seen somebody actually like articulate Pascal's wager, which is you know a formal philosophical argument for God that there's there's there's a high-stakes bet that everyone's making uh as to whether or not Christianity is true, and the best bet is to uh play your hand as if you know heaven is real because the consequences are so great. He's like actually really reasoning that way. If you read his article about how he's turned to faith in Christ, he is like following Pascal's wager in a way that I thought was huh, that's interesting.
Bob:I did see Megan Basham commenting on his uh one of his posts.
Dave:Okay.
Bob:Telling him, hey, Jesus.
Dave:Yeah. Okay. Well, actually, there's a third guy. Okay. Did you guys see about Snoop Dog? No, come on. Snoop Dogg, not even kidding. Snoop Dogg. Snoop Dogg is like coming out of the the the closet for Jesus. I saw this over Christmas break. You guys miss this? I did. Snoop Dogg is expressing faith in in Jesus Christ. It's it's it's happening. I saw this.
Bob:Elon Musk was on a podcast where they were asking him about God. He he who is God? He said he's the creator of everything. Now not not not a Christian articulation, but admitting that there's a God who created things. It's it's an interesting echo right now, people commenting on faith.
Dave:There's a lot of activity happening. And uh Oh, here's another story. Um I'm full of them. So my son-in-law My son-in-law, Tim, loves um the what's the name of the European Soccer League? The Premier League? Yeah, the Premier League. And he likes Premier League. He likes the Arsenals, right? Uh Arsenal. What? Where are they?
Tim:Uh they're just Arsenal.
Bob:Not the Arsenals. The Arsenal.
Tim:It's just Arsenal.
Bob:It's like the uh Arsenal. Don't we have uh American team like that where it's just the not the market?
Dave:So there was a guy who was out for a while um who came came back last week, a couple days ago. Oh, Gabrielle Jesus? Last name was I was gonna say Jesus, but I guess Jesus is probably the correct pronunciation. So my son-in-law texted me this video of him scoring a goal, and then he rips off his arsenal. Arsenal, Noah? Yes, thank you.
Bob:It's one one arsenal has multiple weapons. My apologies.
Dave:Can I get to my story now? So the guy takes off the red and white jersey and it says, I belong to Jesus. His t-shirt says, I belong to Jesus, and he's running around he was wearing a t-shirt. Yeah, the soccer field. And he's got this Christian witness, and he got a yellow card for it, but it you know, well worth it. This was uh very strong allegiance testimony to Jesus for so you made me think my sister. Premier League.
Bob:Speaking of in that vein, my sister got me a present for Christmas. I got a baseball, but then there was a ticket that Dana Woodbridge apparently were doing a meet and greet with John Wetland next Sunday night. Do you remember John Wetland was the closer for the Yankees in the 96 World Series?
Dave:Oh, I haven't really heard that name in a long time.
Bob:I'm gonna meet him, but I think he was a Christian. Wow. Hopefully he still is.
Dave:Okay.
Bob:So lots of lots of wow, we got a lot of stuff going on. I thought of another one.
Dave:It's been a long time. We haven't talked to you in so long. It is. It's been it's been weeks. Did you guys see not just the rejoicing in the Venezuelan streets? Did you see the protests in the Iran street streets?
Bob:I read about that too, Pastor Dave.
Dave:Iran. We might be turning a corner in Iran. It's people.
Bob:Maybe the postmillennials are right, Pastor.
Dave:Doug Wilson called it. It looks to me like even the Ayatollah might be fleeing to Russia, I heard. Like they are rising up against the leadership, and Iran might be like pushing against the infrastructure there. I saw some pretty exciting stories about that. So we got a lot of cool things happening that are exciting to talk about in the news. All right. All right. I'll stop now.
Bob:We're going to pause here and see if give you a second to think about another one.
Dave:I let's move on. I'm I'm just I'm so full of news. That's all I've been doing over the break, obviously.
Bob:You know what it is? It's the glasses, Pastor Dave. Look, it's just it's making you think. Making you think.
Tim:Hey guys, I know we just hit the new year, but February is on its way, so that means it is time to sign up for the City Relief Outreach event for February the 21st. We are looking for six more volunteers to come out with us to serve with City Relief on their bus in New York City. If you are interested in signing up, head to our website, head to the City Relief page, and scroll all the way down until you find the February sign up, and there you can sign up for the event. All information you might want will be on the webpage as well. And if you have any more questions, please let me know. Send me an email, talk to me in person, give me a phone call, whatever you need to do, uh, and I'll answer those questions for you. We hope to see you out. Six more spots to fill. Could be you. Come serve with us.
Dave:So Strobe. Sorry about the news dump there, but we're gonna move on to the uh segment where we help you get some good stuff in your noggin.
Bob:We where we help you cognitively develop and and we're gonna we're gonna try to also compete here and see where we are with the wasn't there a new segment that came and went? Is it gonna come back or are we done with that?
Tim:Oh no, I forgot about the weekly warm-up or something. Weekly warm-up will come back next week. Today is a very long episode.
Bob:I'm feeling a little a little stiff from the holidays, so I got I gotta do some calisthenics.
Tim:So uh as of last week, the score is four to seven in pay in favor of Pastor Dave. Um is it? Yes, that is the score. Um, and uh don't call it a comeback because this week's winner is disability in the gospel, a two-week one streak for Pastor Bob. And this is a bit of a landslide, too. Look at this. Oh my goodness. One of the biggest margins of Pastor Bob victory in quite some time. Ten responses. That's seven people.
Bob:Is now the question is is this like the two thousand and three Red Sox or the uh two thousand and four Red Sox? I'm not sure, but just like that is a two-point game.
Dave:You are Venezuela coming back from your glory days, man. You're you're gonna live back in the 80s. Does that make you Maduro? Yeah.
Bob:I s I'll I'll tell you later.
Tim:Somebody took me out. So since you've lost this week, Master Dave, or last week, or two weeks ago, uh, it is your turn to recommend your book.
Bob:Well, before before he does that, can I can I mention several books that are not I'm not bringing it, but these are these were books that were recommended on the resource list for the series. I'm not putting these in, but uh book I highly recommend uh Same Lake, Different Boat Boat by uh Stephanie Hubach uh on um Coming Alongside People Touched by Disability. Uh we had Disability in the Gospel, which it was the landslide winner last week. Um another book by Disability, Living into the Diversity of Christ's Body by Brian Brock. He's a professor at University of Aberdeen, where they have uh quite a lot of people doing work on disability over there. And then Paul Touchis wrote this book called When Disability Hits Home, How God Magnifies His Grace in Our Weakness and Suffering. So all these are great resources if you want to learn a little bit more about the topic. Boom. Right there. But not I'm not putting them in for winning this week. These are just resources for you in your time. I do have another uh wonderful edition this week, though, so now you can go. I I I didn't want to I didn't want to like look like I was I was throwing five books at you in the competition, Pastor Dave.
Dave:All right. Or so we're in the official territory now. Yeah, now official territory. I don't rarely do Amazon stars and reviews, but I recently gave a five star. Review with a paragraph on Amazon for this book right here.
Bob:Was it one that we wrote?
Dave:No. By the way, uh, please like and star in our books on the Meaning of the Madness available right now. All right. I need a close-up here, Tim. I I gotta get I gotta get closer, man. Can you see that? You need to go grab it and pull it up to the camera. All right, so John Michael wrote this book called A Stand for Truth. There we go. Better. Yeah. Okay. I have a free copy for you. So I I have two, and I want to give one away. All right. And it is brilliant. So John Michael was a trustee on the board of Southern Seminary. I'm huge right now. John Michael was a trustee on the board of Southern Seminary for about a decade in the late 80s, early 90s. And everybody on the board of trustees at Southern Seminary was theologically liberal except for him. He was a young dude. He was like Tim's age, and he was asked to be in leadership because he was like a deacon in his church. He was this upstanding guy, a man of integrity, like Tim. And they were like, hey, you want to be on the board? He's like, What's a board? So he like got put on the board, and he started realizing that there were professors at Southern that were not teaching in align with their doctrine of uh doctrinal statement. He started realizing that there were beliefs that were not being held to, and he started asking questions and he started being opposed on these on these board meetings. And he documented his his wife made him sit down and document the entire story over 10 years of completely flipping the majority of the board from liberal to conservative at Southern Seminary, opposing the former president, President Roy Honeycutt and then also he also opposed Al Moeller at the beginning. Uh and Al knows about this, but um he eventually got one over to Al Moeller because he's Al Moeller. But um he tells the entire story of like the shift from Southern that went from liberal to conservative. I've never seen a school do this before. I've never seen a denomination do what the SBC did. Like every time it's we're gonna split off, we're gonna start something new. Like that's what we did as the conservative Baptists. We didn't like we couldn't shift the Northern Convention. We didn't turn the uh we started something new to the ship back around. That's what always happens.
Bob:Yeah.
Dave:But that's not what happened at Southern, and that's not what happened with the MB SBC. They took it back over. They they call it like a hostile takeover, at least the opposition does. They they actually successfully turned the Titanic ship 180 degrees around and made Southern into what it is today, hired professors like Timothy George, David Dockery, you know, obviously Al Moeller's leadership, and you know, Tom Schreiner was one of the first conservatives on the faculty to come. And they basically owed this dude, John Michael, this young business guy in Louisville, a huge thank you. Who like put his neck on the line, was a volunteer, and kept on like voting and speaking out against the problems at Southern until eventually it became what it is today. So I got to meet this dude, totally a nice guy, normal guy. Um, and he signed my book, and it is an absolute page turner. The thing's 600 pages. I couldn't put it down. I couldn't put the book down. I was like, I should go to bed now. No, I got one more chapter, one more chapter. I would wake up the next morning. When do I have to be out the house? I gotta, I gotta, I gotta read a little bit more. And then when I'd get home, I'd read a little bit more. It was that good. It was like a absolute, like, this is more than should I watch the next episode of Stranger Things? That's nothing compared to this book. So a stand for truth. It's one person's documented history of the transformation of an entire, the largest evangelical seminary in the world, the transformation of that seminary from liberal to Protestant. You've never heard of this guy, and he's the one that really actually was the first match that sparked the flame. So I have a copy for you. I have a copy for you. So if you want it, it's yours, man. I will bring it to church. I have an extra copy because it's that good. I want to give it away because it's a good story.
Bob:It sounds like uh uh bribery right here.
Dave:It's first come, first serve. And for the rest of you, it's on Amazon. It's like less than it's like, I don't know, 20 bucks or something like that. So John Michael and his wife Harriet Michael, I think she is the writer, but uh, it's his story and unbelievable. Like, drop it's a phone drop book, man. That's how good it is.
Bob:It's so you cracked your screen even over that.
Dave:If you're willing to do that, a stand for truth. The corner the cover is so corny, Noah. This is this is bad graphic art, but it is a page turner, man. This book is good. Don't judge a book by its cover. Don't, yeah. So if you're interested, man, like this is what it means to stand for truth. Like what this guy did, really courageous. Really courageous. Cool story. All right, that's my book.
Bob:Well, that sounds uh enthralling. Yeah. All right. So what if I want the book, though?
Dave:You can have it. All right. You're the first one to ask.
Bob:Maybe I'll say. Maybe I'll say I want it. Let me pray about it.
Dave:I'm not sure you want to say it.
Bob:Well, I got a lot more, I got a lot of reading coming up to do, so I'm trying to think if I have 600 pages of stuff.
Dave:What do you got for us?
Bob:So, my recommendation this week is uh a book by a guy named Kelly Capick, and it's called uh In In the Vein of What We Were Talking about Yesterday. It's a book called Your Only Human, How Your Limits Reflect God's Design, and Why That's Good News. So here's the uh here's the overview. God didn't create us to do it all. God doesn't need you to meet all the needs, know all the answers, or to be superhuman. Yet as Christians, we often confuse our creaturely limits with sin. In your only human, popular speaker and award-winning author, Kelly Capic, who teaches um at a university down south, I think in Georgia, um, Kelly Capic shows that God just desires you to be a faithful human being whose finite finitude fosters freedom, joy, growth, and community. So um I I not only have I enjoyed his writing, but I know a lot of other people that have significantly benefited from uh this book. And um, you know, I think speaking yesterday, we were talking about how all of us have have limitations, and sometimes that annoys us. We want to be perceived as being strong in all that we do, achieving our resolutions. Uh, this book will challenge your assumptions about that. So I I highly recommend this as a New Year's read. Whether you decide to stand for truth or not, uh, I think you should buy this book. So maybe you're buying two books this week. I don't know. Uh, but I will say my design here, I think, significantly beats Pastor's Dave, Pastor Dave's book design. And I do think that the the cover speaks to what's inside.
Dave:Wait, maybe there should be a two-book selection, Tim. Maybe you should have maybe they could do all of the above. A radio button that says a tie. Both. Sounds like a cop out. Yeah. All right, never mind. That will kind of ruin the fun.
Bob:It's a bad idea. Yeah. We uh we what are we we recommend you you decide? Is that what it is? We recommend you decide. See, I forgot. I forg even forgot what we're doing here. Go vote.
Dave:Go vote now, guys.
Bob:Don't run. All right, we'll come to that.
Dave:Audience questions, right? We have two. Tim, what are the questions?
Tim:So um, first of all. Sounds like they were both for Dave's sermon, right? Yeah, they were both uh they were they were both uh from the IC.
Bob:We got two we got two sermons to review here, right? Um if we want. Um Alright, well. That's kind of what I was thinking.
Tim:All right. So the first question is actually from a middle schooler. Um Abby is the one who put in this question.
Dave:Miss Claybell. Yes. She's quite the chef. One time she made me like a homemade Reese's peanut butter cup. It was like something she did in her oven. It was unbelievable. Wow.
Tim:Abby, you're amazing. In the New Kingdom described in Isaiah 66, does it say that people will still die except for at a much older age, or will they live eternally?
Dave:Abby, it does say people will die. The problem is how does that work? Like, so Isaiah 65 This is the question, Abby.
Bob:This is the question.
Dave:Yeah. Isaiah 65 seems to indicate somebody's gonna die at 100 and you're gonna think he's young. So so different people interpret that differently. Abby, sometimes people think it's um symbolic, and we're talking about like eternal life here. I I don't really like that view, but that is a view. Other times people say the new heavens and new earth comes like in stages, so there's a stage of the kingdom age that's like a pre-stage, and then the new heavens and new earth are the complete new creation. Uh, that view would would say there's still things like birth and death, and even um, you know, marriage and things like that that are happening in the coming kingdom. And so um life will be expanded, the curse will be lifted, people will be uh far better off. Um so you'll see descriptions of like um the animal kingdom getting along, or like the harvest and all these grapes and uh the the w the wine dripping from the mountains, and the earth will somehow be more plentiful during that time. And so um most people who are futurist in their eschatology say there's a kingdom age where the lifespan will be expanded, though there's different views on that. So um if they do die and they were a uh you know a believer, we trust that at the end of that age they'll be resurrected and given their eternal bodies at that time. So I hope that answers your question. Abby, thank you for asking it. It's a really good question, and it's a hard question. And let me know if you agree or disagree. Do you have any other thoughts on it?
Bob:The the answer sounded like we don't know. Yeah, maybe it's this, maybe it's that.
Dave:It's okay to say we don't know.
Tim:Yeah. So our second question, uh, I think is a bit actually of a continuation of the first question. This is from a longtime listener, is is how they labeled themselves.
Bob:Long time listener, first time caller.
Tim:Yes. Hey, long time, first time. Um so their question is if the new earth uh and the new heaven in the future is how God intended it for uh intended for it to be, then why didn't he just create it like that in the first place and avoid everything we've got to go through, including the torture and death of his son?
Bob:Well, it's another foundational question here, Pastor Dave. Why?
Dave:You know, there's a book by Rennie Showards called What on Earth Is God Doing for Heaven's sake, or something like that. And I think that's a question that a lot of times people answer. Basically, you're a asking what is the reason for all of history? I don't think that's limited to my Isaiah 66 sermon, right? So that's like a pretty big philosophical question.
Bob:No, this is this is kind of the question about uh why did sin why did God allow sin to enter the world? Why did Genesis 3 happen, you know?
Dave:What the creeds say is he did all of this for his own glory, for the display of his glory in the expression of his mercy towards his vessels of mercy, and in the expression of his justice toward those who are vessels of wrath. Without a fallen world, those attributes of God, those parts of his glory would not be able to be manifest in the same way. So God in eternity past saw fit, knowing all things that would happen to make the world that he made, um though that does not mean that God is the author of sin or the author of evil, we still want to say that um those are because of the choices of creatures, such as fallen angels or mankind who made those sinful choices. We don't want to make God responsible for evil, um but yet he uh permitted evil, but he only does so in such a way that he can make use of it, and the way he's making use of it is for the display of the glory of his grace, Ephesians chapter one. So God puts up with a lot human rebellion, suffering, sin, evil, um, the coming judgment puts up with me. And um he does all of this because as part of his sovereign plan, he decided that this was good. Got any other further elucidations on this question?
Bob:That's a big one. The the the one that I've I've heard that's always resonated with me was that if sin didn't enter the world, if we didn't go through all of that, we wouldn't know the full beauty of redemption. So, as crazy as that sounds, at the end God makes things new and better and more more beautiful. Um so I I think at some level it's sort of like something was lost and then it was regained and it was even better, and you wouldn't have known the full scope of that, the full impact of that, unless you had known what it was like to lose and go through all that pain and sorrow. Which I think is sort of a riff off of what you were saying, but I I've heard it put simply like that.
Dave:So over my sabbatical, I read for the first time Brothers Karamatza, and there's a wonderful scene in there where he says this um I believe like a child um let me see if I can pull this quote up because it's such a good quote. Um here we go. I believe like a child that one day all suffering will be healed and made up for, and that the humiliating absurdity of human contradictions will one day vanish like a pitiful mirage, that at the world's finale, at the moment of eternal harmony, something so precious will come to pass that it will suffice for all hearts, for the comforting of all resentments, for the atonement of all the crimes of humanity, for all the blood that they've shed, that it will make it not only possible to forgive, but to justify all that has happened. So that's the wonderful way that Dostoevsky decided to say something in the future will help us to understand why God permitted all of this. For right now we live by faith, not by sight. It's a good question. Long time listener.
Bob:The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things reveal reveal belong to us, to our children forever. Yeah. So one day it will all be revealed.
Dave:Yeah. And then I'm often taught struck with Peter's question, I think in John's Gospel at the end of chapter six, where you got this situation where you either trust in the God that created everything, or like Peter says, To whom else will we turn?
Bob:Mm-hmm. Like you have the answers of eternal life.
Dave:Yeah. So take Pascal's wager and bet on the God who knows all and is sovereign overall. Good question.
Tim:Are you a parent and you've had that moment where your child comes to you and asks an awkward question and you're not exactly sure how to answer it? If that's you or you want to be prepared for when that does happen, we are launching a brand new small group here at Millington Baptist Church called The Birds and the Bees, where we're having conversations about having those conversations. The Birds and the Bees will be led by Ken and Andrea Harold, and it's created specifically for parents with kids ages 1 to 10. Starting Sunday, February the 8th, we will meet for five weeks at the 1045 service. We will walk through how to have open, honest, and biblical conversations with your kids about sex and growing up without fear and without too much awkwardness. We will watch a video series together and talk through practical, clear language you could use at home, all with the goal of strengthening trust with your kids and helping you confidently lead these conversations before culture does. So if that's you and you're a parent who wants to be prepared instead of being panicked, check out the Birds and the Bees Small Group. More information on the small group page on our website, and we hope to see you there.
Dave:Alright, so we are moving on in the show, and we're gonna talk about the sermon recap. So Pastor Bob kicked us off with a new series Upside Down Glory. Let's talk about that.
Bob:Upside down. First Corinthians 2. Let's see. No uh no thumbnail yet, Tim, huh? No thumbnail yet. Alright, I'm looking forward to that. We're gonna see what you come up with.
Dave:First of all, I'm disappointed because I thought there was gonna be a prop. I saw a rainmaker thing or something in the manuscript. What was it? Sunmaker?
Bob:Uh rain stick. Yeah. So I I it it was one of those things that were several things that were in the initial draft, and then I just decided um I didn't have time to do it.
Dave:Tell me he was gonna start the first Sunday of the year with a prop, and he he he backed out of it.
Bob:Well, for for time's sake, and also I had introduced it at the beginning, and I I didn't really come back to it, and I don't like to do that. Uh so I was gonna have a what uh a rain stick, um, which is a musical instrument. It's the you know, you turn it upside down and go shh. Sound like it's raining. Oh. There's also a child's toy where they do that.
Dave:I need this on the next behind the pulpit. I need to find it.
Bob:I can probably it's like five bucks. I can go find it here. Get it for you. I can bring it. But the the idea was to was to talk about how you know um uh imagine the pellets on the rain stick were like the world's uh ideas and systems and stuff. Um that those need to be transformed, uh they need to be flipped upside down so that God's uh God's views and values um need to get down into our heart. So that was gonna be like the idea of flipping things upside down. Um but I didn't I didn't work it in enough, and so just for the sake of time, I decided to cut it and maybe use it, maybe I'll use it later later in the series. So I'm sorry. Also, the last point about the upside down, there was somebody asked me, was that in relation with Stranger Things? And indeed I did have a Stranger Things illustration that I switched out uh for that because I don't want to get people distracted with some of the things we talked about before. So yes, it wasn't there originally and then it was it was removed. This is what happens when you get feedback.
Dave:Well, um what what was your big idea again? You had us repeat a phrase at the end of the sermon. Big idea was this.
Bob:Big idea was that our um um our limitations actually let me pull it up so I can remember here. I want to make sure I say it correctly. Um our limitations are not barriers to God's glory, they're the stage for it. Our limitations are not barriers to God's glory, they are the stage for it. So we spent most of the sermon basically talking about what is disability, and uh we define that as being a limitation of human life uh in a fallen world, and and it's in those moments of weakness we spent a lot of time defining the word weakness and what the Greek word meant and what that encompasses, and how God says he chooses the weak of the world to shame the strong. So God takes those weaknesses, he takes those limitations and makes that a platform for how he comes in and how he works. Um that was where the big idea the big idea came from. And then we did also spend some time talking about what does it mean to be made in the image of God, what are some of the theological concepts with that, what are some uh problems with thinking about it in certain ways or limiting it in certain ways, and how that might. Exclude people with disabilities. And then when we talked about entering the upside down, God's upside down kingdom, there is a bit of this upside down thinking in Paul's section here at the end of 1 Corinthians 1, about the weak in the world, shaming the strong, the low and despised, bringing to nothing things that are not. So God is flipping our mindset upside down. And we we talked at the beginning about New Year's resolutions, which are often focused on strength and wisdom and wealth and all these things the world values. Like that's our natural inclination. God says all those things don't boast in those things. Boast in the fact that you know me. And uh and you are the one who depends upon me. Uh that's that's how God gets glory. So those are some of the things we chat. We took we talked specific the main question for the sermon was um if God chooses weakness, how should the church respond? And uh the three things we talked about were uh uh consider your calling, honor the image, and entering the upside down. And we tied that all in with uh the disability uh theme that we're doing for this series. Um my main goal was to challenge people's assumptions, to give them uh an awareness about the topic, and then for the rest of the series, we're gonna flesh out uh I think some practical natures of this. What does it look like for us to really um uh welcome people with disabilities in into the kingdom and into the church?
Dave:What do you think about our culture's idea of normal? And how do you think that that impacts the way we see other people?
Bob:Yeah, that's a great question. So I didn't use this in this particular sermon, but there was a series that we did a few years ago. Um we did a di uh series called Dignity, or I forget I think we just called it Dignity. Um, and one of those messages was on special needs that my wife and I shared in there. But I I I used this book, the same lake, different book, the Stephanie Hub book, and this is what she says. So so there's uh different views that have happened about disability over the course of history.
Dave:So just a quick little thing on what does the title mean again? Same lake, different boat?
Bob:Oh yeah, so she says that uh all of us are in the same lake in the sense that we're all humans, but we all occupy different boats, that we all have our own issues and our own limitations, and she actually actually makes the argument that all of us have some limitation, some disability, and there's a sliding scale to that and how it impacts life. So that that's the illustration. We're all in the same lake, but we all occupy different boats.
Dave:So just to take it a step back, now that you just said that I remember. So oftentimes you hear the phrase, we're all in the same boat. And she's pushing back against it. No, we're not in the same boat, we're in the same lake. Right. So like you can't totally universalize or like flatten out everybody's problems as if everybody has the same exact levels of problems and difficulties. We're not all in the same boat. We're in the same lake, but we're in different boats. Right. You got your own boat, I got my boat, Stephanie has her boat.
Bob:Right. So so she goes over three what she she voices it this way there's three views of disability. So she calls one the historical view, and that's that disability is an abnormal part of life in a normal world.
Dave:Wait, wait. Okay. Go slow for the non-philosophical people. So is disability an abnormal life of life in the normal world? Okay, so for there you'd have to assume we live in a normal world.
Bob:So she's saying that everything is normal, and when I look at somebody with disabilities, they're abnormal. They're the problem. They're the ones that are on the outside. Yeah. They're not normal, right? They're abnormal.
Dave:So that that's not true, because it's not a normal world. We live in a fallen world.
Bob:Well, I'm getting there. I'm getting there. So that's the first. That's been like the historical the historical view right there. That's that. And you can see where like over the course of history, people that are people that have disabilities have historically been very much marginalized. You even see that within a lot of scriptural accounts, and so many times God is challenging that that view in scripture. Jesus comes along and he notices people that the world overlooks. Um, and then the postmodern view is this. She says, disability is a normal part of life in a normal world. So this is where your flattening comes in. This is where this would be the we're all in the same boat. You know, everybody's normal. There's there's no discrepancies.
Dave:So in that postmodern way, people are saying that there's not a problem. That everything is just perfect and there's nothing to grieve about, there's nothing to complain about, there's no uh Well Yes, and I think one of the illustrations she gives in here is that you know how people react when you hear that somebody somebody has a diagnosis, you know, like I I shared about my son.
Bob:So, hey, here's the here's the diagnosis to to my son. He's got this un unknown genetic thing, and somebody be like, Oh, that's great, right? Like that's he's gonna walk his own path, but it doesn't it doesn't acknowledge the things that might have been lost when there there is a condition like that that comes in to your life.
Dave:Yeah. And you could see they might mean well, right? They're trying to normalize like difficulty, but it actually trivializes real grief and sadness and loss because you're making me pretend like everything's like nothing's awry. That's not really actually accurate. Yeah.
Bob:The illustration I think I use that I got from one of my friends was that um you you do you're like you are losing uh the picture of what you thought could be, you know, with your family or or or your life or whatever it is. And uh, you know, it's like you got on a plane and you were expecting to go to Southern California, and there's a lot of beauty there, natural beauty and everything, but instead the plane didn't take you to Southern California, it took you to um Saskatchewan, Canada, or wherever, wherever it is, and that wasn't where you were expecting to go. You're disappointed that you got there initially, but there's also beauty there that you have to open your eyes to see. And that was the illustration for uh the that I found helpful for for me and for our family was that hey, this isn't what I expected, but there's also a lot of beauty in the midst of uh uh of our situation. Um you just don't notice it right away. So what she argues is that the biblical view, the Christian worldview is this that disability is a normal part of life in an abnormal world. So what she's saying is basically everybody has some kind of limitations, and it's you know, we should we should expect that things are gonna happen that we don't expect, and that's just part of life in that she calls it an abnormal world, but we would say, you know, it's it's it's part of the fall, it's part of the fallen world, that everybody's touched by um the fall and what happens. That we were the crowning jewel of creation, but now creation is groaning, you know, Romans 8 tells us that, and we'll we're actually gonna get into that later in the series. Um, creation is groaning for renewal for this new heavens, new earth, kingdom, uh go into the questions that were asked before. Um, but until that time, there's still gonna be aspects of the fall that we're touched by, and that's that's part of what disability um um is. So that's a quick overview, maybe some categories. Did I answer your question that you initially asked?
Dave:Yeah. Um How does our culture's understanding of normal affect the way that we treat other people?
Bob:Yeah, and we and we live in such a cultural time where this idea of diversity and honoring everybody's um identity, you know, so even the disability conversation is part of this identitarian conversation. Um you know, we often we we cr we critique, you know, some of the some of the racial stuff and some of the LGBT stuff as being m miss it mixing the modifiers up, you know, certainly in the Christian world. A lot of people want to put qualifiers before the fact that they're a Christian. Same thing can happen with disability. The first thing and the most important thing for all human beings is to know that they're made in the image of God, and uh God calls us to his son and to repent of our sins and turn to him. Um even the passage this week, and we were reading in staff meeting in Mark 2, Jesus um encounters a paralytic that these these friends bring to him, and his first question to them, you mentioned this, is not, oh, how can you be healed? He's like, Do you want your sins to be forgiven? So he he points to the spiritual issue uh right away.
Dave:Um yeah, so let me put you on the spot there, man, just to make you uncomfortable. Where in your life do you think about how your str your strength is gonna make you most useful to God? Where do you lean there?
Bob:Oh, what am I proud of? Well where I think that I'm where I think I'm strong.
Dave:Where is this thinking show up for Bob Irving?
Bob:I guess I guess for me, you know, there is an element of accomplishments that that I feel like I always need to do stuff. I always have a lot more on my to-do list than I actually I actually get to. Um You know, I I think uh when it comes to family life, a lot of times I'm gonna be the one who's gonna be strong and not bothered by um challenges. I'm just gonna push it through and I'm gonna I'm gonna accomplish what I've set out to do, even though there's there's some limitations. That's something that I've struggled with with quite a bit.
Dave:Um my wife is much better at living in the limitations than I am so how does Paul's challenge from 1 Corinthians chapter 1 challenge you in that area?
Bob:No. Well, I mean, I shared a little bit about just my relationship with my with Josiah, my son, and um you know, uh it it is true that even though I don't have the same type of limitations, his limitations has changed my life. Uh in the sense that I can't do a lot of the things that I used to do or even even want to do. Um and and where it shows up for me is I I I get annoyed by that. Like I'm I'm irritated that I can't do this, and it's exposed quite a bit of selfishness in in my own heart. Um rather than seeing it all the time and gratefully thanking the Lord for for giving us this beautiful gift of a of a child. Uh there's times that I I just say, Man, I can't go to bed on time, I wake up, uh, I can't do these things on a Saturday that I want to do, or um, I'm gonna have to sacrifice sleep for certain things. Um so God's really God's really used that to to humble me and uh expose some things that I I need to repent of in my own heart.
Dave:And isn't it cool that even if we aren't able to accomplish what we hope to or wish we could or you know once dreamed of and we don't, that God's love for us isn't contingent upon those accomplishments that the grace is there, the gospel's there.
Bob:Yeah. And God actually says it's in your in your weakness that I'm gonna I'm gonna work. Yeah. Because then you recognize you you need dependence on him rather than if see if we're always independent, we always think we can do stuff without God. Yeah. And that's that's what God's trying to show us.
Dave:Flip it upside down.
Bob:Yeah. Take the rain stick. Yeah. I'll bring it next week. We'll bring the rain stick.
Dave:You heard it. He's bringing it. All right. Anything else on that sermon before we wrap up this segment?
Bob:No, other than just I was I was I was pleased with some, you know, some comments I got afterwards, and people seemed to really receive that, said it was really helpful to them. And so I hope the whole series is. Um, but my like as I mentioned, my goal was just to kind of set the stage here for this first week and get people thinking, and we'll we'll pull the thread over the next uh six or seven weeks as we uh keep going through.
Dave:All right. Stay tuned next week as we move on in our series.
Tim:Hey guys, you are watching Behind the Pulpit, but there are two other amazing shows on our channel uh that I want you to be aware of. The first, of course, is the Underground Sessions Podcast, where we're having conversations at the center of faith, culture, and politics. We are equipping the saints to engage the skeptics. The show is hosted by our very own pastor Bob Irvig, and we go through a wide variety of different cultural and worldview topics. We also showcase some amazing interviews and conversations that you won't want to miss, too, that are coming up. We're gonna have a conversation about Christian nationalism and we're gonna have an interview with someone who used to be an atheist. You're not gonna want to miss any of those episodes that are coming up. The second show you should be made aware of is The Fresh Wave. The Fresh Wave are weekly short form teachings and commentaries geared for teens. The show features Maddie and Johnny, and they share what's on their hearts that we think it's important for teens to know and think about in today's day and age. So if you're a teen or you know a teen who's interested in some short form weekly Christian content, make sure you check out the Fresh Wave.
Dave:And now it's time in the show to do a little sprinting on the I don't know if the question askers here. So are we still doing this? Or Yes, we're we may have.
Tim:We're still gonna do it.
Dave:All right.
Tim:Because I have a question for you. Let's go. But I think I got the I'm gonna put the beard on the I think for you smart individuals, it'll be a bit of a softball. So it'll be a good way to end the uh I think I'm gonna have procedure. Um a good way to end the uh the episode. Um what does it mean that the Bible is inspired?
Dave:Well, you know how sometimes you say the Bible is simple enough for a little kid to understand, but it's more complicated for the wisest person in the world to really grasp, right? This is one of those questions. On the one hand, you know, 2 Timothy chapter 3 just asserts that all scripture is God breathed, that it's inspired by God or Theonustos, it's expired, that this is something that is not just the words of man, but it is the words of God. And we see in 2 Peter chapter 1 that God carried along the prophets and that they wrote what he wanted to be his words, even though God used their personalities and their vocabulary and their language, still there's a theological word called confluence, where we have two sources that are at work there. We have the human source and then we have the the divine source that's behind scripture. So, how many times in the Bible do we see this like thus saith the Lord phrase? Or, you know, Moses actually says like God carved these tablets with his finger. And then Paul says things like if anyone recognizes the words of God, then let him recognize that what I'm saying is the words of God, right? Not not just the words of men, but the words of God. Or Revelation, you know, chapters two and three, hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches. This this is not just a human book, it's a book that's written and inspired by the Holy Spirit of God. So we believe that the Bible is um sacred, that it is um the words of the eternal God. In fact, that's why Mr. John Michael was taking his stand for truth, because many people were saying, No, this book's just a human book. Um Elisa Childers had a way of talking about this. When she was here at the Contend conference, when she got to the part about Scripture, she said that basically, in the progressive Christian worldview, Scripture is a record of man's book, man's thoughts about God or something like that. That's not what we think the Bible is. So we think it's actually God's word.
Bob:Telling his story through fallible human beings.
Dave:Yeah. Now, how did he do that? That's a really good question.
Bob:That's a what's the difference between inspiration and inerrancy and then illumination? Like these are all kind of words as part of this, if you read a systematic theology, those are all mentioned.
Dave:Yeah. So I mean you start with inspiration, and then you get to since God is a God of truth, he's only going to inspire words that are correct. So the Bible's going to be inerrant because God's infallible. He cannot err. So he's going to produce an inerrant text, and then because it's inerrant, then it's then it's true. And now we have this inspired, inerrant, infallible, true text, and we still can't understand it. So we have to pray like the psalmist, Lord, open my eyes that I might see wonderful things in your law, and we pray for the Spirit's illumination. And that's something that I um do every time I open that book. And um God is the one who wrote it, and He's the one who's gonna help us understand it. So don't forget about that. Yeah, that's important to ask for His help. I love it, man. 2026. It started.
Bob:It has started. So we'll be back. Uh this coming week. We're talking about Sanctity of Human Life, Bioethics, Mark chapter 2. It's gonna be a wild Sunday. And uh and we got a baptism. Got a baptism. It's gonna be a good service, so we'll hope to see you this week. God bless. Praying for warmer weather, snow melting, and uh hopefully no more, no more world news. We'll see.
Dave:If if there is world news, we will catch you up.
Bob:We will hear here first. Have a great week, guys. Thank you.