The Owner's Odyssey
The Owner's Odyssey is a business podcast focused on exploring the unique journeys of real business owners co-hosted by Brook Gratia, Paul McCoy, and Zach Jones.
The Owner's Odyssey
An Entrepreneur's Odyssey: Family Ties, Career Shifts, and Finding Balance with Brook Gratia
Embark with us on an Owner's Odyssey, where the entrepreneurial journey is as diverse as those who walk it. Ever pondered how the fabric of family shapes your business aspirations? Our latest episode peels back the layers of influence and ambition, as our guest narrates their shift from KPMG accountant to nonprofit CFO in Africa, culminating in the courageous launch of their very own accounting firm.
Our conversation with our guest doesn't shy away from the emotional rollercoaster of starting a business – from the initial trepidation to the thrill of scaling new heights. I open up about my own hurdles, sharing tales of setbacks that taught me just as much as my victories. It's a true testament to the resilience required to carve out success and the learning that comes from embracing our most challenging moments.
As the odyssey draws to a close, we don't just talk shop. I share a slice of my personal quest, from aspiring author to seeking tranquility with my family. It's all about striking that delicate balance between personal joys and professional pursuits. So, if you're ready for a dose of inspiration that might just spark your next big idea, join us. And stay tuned for our next episode with Paul McCoy, where the conversation promises to be as enlightening as it is entertaining.
Hello and welcome to the Owner's Odyssey, the podcast where we delve deep into the transformative stories of courageous business owners who have embarked on an extraordinary adventure. I'm Zach Jones and I'm Brooke Gattia. We're here to explore the real life experiences of entrepreneurs.
Brook:Each episode, we'll embark on a quest to uncover the trials, triumphs and transformations of remarkable individuals who dared to answer the call of entrepreneurship.
Zach:Like all adventurers, our guests have faced their fair share of challenges, vanquished formidable foes and braved the unknown.
Brook:Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a seasoned business owner or simply an avid listener hungry for captivating stories the Owner's Odyssey is here to help you level up.
Zach:So join us as we embark on this epic expedition. This is the Owner's Odyssey. Let's start our adventure.
Brook:The intro in my mind, just because I'll get it out and it'll help me.
Zach:Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, absolutely.
Brook:Is totally like hey, you know, this is the owner's journey and you know, while it's about primarily about the business owners, there's really the people who are owners of their division or their organization or just the job that they have to do, or owning your own vision, whatever that is.
Brook:While we're focusing on the business side, we're talking about that journey and while ownership can be fun and exciting and inspiring, it's also really really hard, and we understand that engaging in that really really hard is a community and that there is not one size fits all. You will listen to the TikToks, all of those other things out there. They're like here's your one solution that will allow you to be free. That doesn't exist because of trauma and opportunities and money and people and processes and your industry and the location of your industry. Nobody's story is the same. So it's just a journey and this podcast is about the learning from other people's journeys and understanding that it's not a big aha moment of like it all comes together, but it's a 1% improvement all along the way. And so we're sitting here, we're talking about what are people's journeys, what are the things that help them find their path in the middle of it.
Brook:And so that's the little we can feel that a little bit better, but really almost that succinct piece of just saying this is the fine, you know owner's journey. You don't have to be a business owner. We're going to focus on that. But really we're talking about people's journeys and how to find them and how to find one person, improvements and how to find your path in the midst of it and hopefully get encouraged and inspired and have fun and laugh and all of those components of it, while also relating with people when it's hard and you sometimes might want to cry. I'm not sure we're gonna cry, but you know maybe. Um, yeah, so you know all of those. It's like you guys might cry. I probably won't either, but you never know, I might be more likely, you know. So that would be my spiel of, like the beginning piece of it.
Zach:Um, yeah and so, yeah, I think that's good, okay, yeah especially for especially a pilot episode, definitely having a welcome to the podcast kind of moment.
Paul:I was thinking that we have a particular set of questions. The questions can be the same, but the answers are all going to be different.
Brook:So who's the host? Is it going to be Zach?
Zach:I mean today. I think we're just going to kind of tag team and chit chat yeah. I think, you know in the future you'll be kind of running things and then I'll.
Paul:I'm very loud mouthed, so Hop in and yeah, the other thing is To add some base to the equation. If you're sat there having something up there like the question, so that when you're asked a question as the interview, then you've got the question up there.
Brook:Oh, that's not a bad idea. So you're not having to?
Paul:what was that question again?
Brook:I don't have to look down and be like, yeah, I can look up and like just having little little prompts that are not distracting but just helpful. Yeah, no, that's not a bad idea, which, by the way, awesome, yeah, I have been sitting. The last one. Yeah, the kind of pyramid. Okay, the font was not. Sorry, the first one. I was like no, it's good, I like that.
Zach:And I appreciate the feedback because that's that's like what I always get when I do those graphic design jobs for people. They're like it's really really good, it's like really masculine, and I'm like it's really really good, it's like really masculine, like, and I'm like I don't know, like, it's just that's what I see, you got to give me more, so that was perfect. You gave me some examples and I was like, oh okay, that's what's different about these fonts Like pulled it together.
Brook:But yeah, it's like if you're just very like bold, clunky, like straight lines, like I'm here, I'm like, okay, let's like, let's just be here. If you had to put feeling behind the font, that was what you got in the midst of it.
Paul:But this is what this is all about is getting different perspectives to do what we're trying to do.
Brook:So do you just want me to talk?
Zach:So yeah, I mean, I kind of where? Where do you feel like your owner's journey started, like what's the first kernel of your current path that you can remember? I?
Brook:don't. Yeah, no, it does. I don't know if I have these vague like feelings as a teenager and I remember, sitting with my dad, um had like a graduation thing and it was a small group of I don't know if it was a church or what and all these girls are up there and saying, and probably even guys, saying, I want to be a mom and have a family and I, um, I'm a teenager so I'm rude, but in my brain I'm like rolling my eyes of, like really, that's, all you want is to be like a mom. Now I'm a mom, now I love being a mom. Like that's not, there's nothing wrong with it, but like that, that thought pattern of like I, I want more than just that again, nothing wrong with that. But um, just I remember those distinct kind of feelings of things. And so I didn't know her.
Brook:I went to college. I barely made it to it. I thought I was going to be a doctor because I watched ER and I thought that was the coolest thing. I'm not a doctor and my friends will laugh at me because I can't pronounce anything. So I probably would wrongly prescribe lots of stuff if I had gotten that direction.
Brook:But accounting kind of made sense because my dad would always like play, made these games for me with numbers, like I would always just computer games before computers were anything and it just numbers fit. My aunt was an accountant Like. I was just like okay, let's just do this, but still, there was probably this thought pattern somewhere in the back of my head of like business side of things, and so Was there anybody in your life at that point that was a business owner?
Brook:No, so what's very interesting is my one brother owns his own business. My other brother is a pastor at a church, like my dad is a pastor, but I think my parents cultivated this very entrepreneurial mindset. I don't even know what they did or how they did it, but I just like looking at us now, like we all, we think up something and we go towards it and we try to make it happen.
Paul:But being the pastor that's almost like being the CEO of that church Right.
Brook:And it was. He had his own church for a while and then he was like a part of a bigger church where he was one of the pastors. But yeah, like it is definitely this you have to lead people, you have to inspire people, you have to get them Running an organization can be more difficult than owning your own business. Entrepreneurial side of things.
Brook:But I don't know what I took away from that or what my brothers would have taken away, but we totally something in us was cultivated in this mindset of, and I remember my dad. I'd ask him how to do something and he'd look at me and he'd say figure it out. And I tell him today which he totally disagrees with me. I'm like I kind of think you were just lazy and didn't want to do it. But in reality I really appreciate that Best of both worlds.
Brook:Yeah, like he told me, like I'm not helping you figure it out, and so I did, and so I don't. I don't know if if that's part of it, I do find it very amazing when people can't figure stuff out like I'm like, I okay like, and try not to lose patience with I don't understand why you can't just play until you figure it out.
Paul:So what about the process, like your father being, say, the head of this church, and he'd say over dinner, maybe I think we're going to do this, and then you just see it happen.
Brook:I imagine that there probably was some of those things. I think my parents were very careful not to bring home the gossip of work on sort of stuff, but I don't know if there's a distinct pace where I remember seeing any of those things, but I'm sure they happened. I remember my dad there was a school attached to the church that we were at and if any issues happened at the school he very rarely would have to step in. He would if he had to, but he didn't. It was a very hard conflict, I'm sure, for him of like he's the kind of the boss and like your kids involved Like so when do you interfere and have people scared of you because you're the boss, versus like this is your kid and you need to like take care of them.
Brook:But again, I don't know if that's part of the like just kind of go and figure things out, and if that was part of the mentality that taught me to. It's okay to risk stuff, it's okay to try it and oh well, if it doesn't work out like, we'll figure it out. And I don't know if that's part of it, but I certainly wonder at times with it and so, yeah, and then I did stuff you do. After college, you get a job. I worked for an accounting firm, kpmg, and did consulting stuff and then worked for the Department of Defense, because you know why not? No, I was part of preparing the Army's financial statements, and all of which is totally two different. That's a totally different sphere from the entrepreneurial world is being in that space.
Zach:Was that just out of necessity? Or was that out of interest in that space? Just a natural?
Brook:flow of like I graduated.
Zach:Kind of opportunity.
Brook:Yeah, like okay, I'll take this job. It was a really weird interview and it was a very I was actually like an administrative assistant as my first job out and as the consulting division of stuff. And people looked at the guy who hired me and was like she has an accounting degree, why is she sitting there, like we need her over here? And I was green, you know I was, but whatever, they pulled me over and just opportunity kind of stepped and you stepped with it and it was and we were consulting with the department of defense and so eventually I started working for the department of defense and um.
Brook:And then I got um opportunity and I had gone once to Africa with a group of people and the guy who ran it, jim Hawking. He started a drilling water company and he asked for a CFO. Now, when you're a nonprofit organization, you can't afford anything, so to do this it totally was like a pay cut and all of this sort of stuff. But I was like, yeah, let's do this, like I've always wanted to be in Africa, like that was also a childhood sort of thing and I don't know why. Just something popped up and I'm like, oh, that sounds really cool, like yeah.
Brook:And so it did that and it was very cool. What they do is phenomenal. I could I could rave about multiple aspects of it.
Zach:How long did you do that I?
Brook:want to say three years I think, but it was so hard and I don't. I still, to this day, don't know why emotionally it was so hard for me, but to fly there I would go three to four times a year and you'd be there there for three weeks usually, because it takes three days to get there.
Paul:Why was that?
Brook:Central African Republic. Okay, so it's right below Congo, right above Congo, right below.
Paul:I don't remember.
Brook:There's some you know, it's Africa, there's conflict a lot in multiple different regions.
Brook:So, but it would literally there was one flight from Paris down there a week so you had to catch that flight. So you made sure you got to Paris with 12 hours of layover and like it was. It was a long haul to get there and I don't they speak French and Sango. I don't speak English very well at times, so like it was just emotionally very, very hard and I liked many pieces of it. Like what they did was cool. I liked being out and like exploring stuff, like, but I I didn't know how to navigate. I didn't know how to navigate a lot of that. Um, and it's very weird being the only I'm sorry here's getting into political stuff, the only white person, but not in a, not the only one, but the few one, but in a more affluential space. So people, you know, kids swarming around you, people swarming around you just because of your skin color, wanting something from you, and not that that's bad, nothing. But it was hard, Like it was just hard.
Paul:It's just a culture shock, yeah exactly.
Brook:And so I did it for three years and then finally, I lived at home by myself and I worked remote for most of the time and I just kind of got lonely and I was like you know what? I'm going to start my own thing. I've always wanted to start my own thing, and so I'm going to do that Now. I'm going to sit down and figure out what it is I want to do. And so I thought about.
Brook:Airbnb, not an Airbnb, a B&B, like a real bed and breakfast. And then I realized they had to work 24 seven and like can never get away from it and it sounded exhausting doing that and I was like, hey, I'll do a spa, cause I really love spas and I get stressed and I want to like be in that world. And then I realized they take a lot of money to start and I don't have a lot of money. And so I was like, all right, fine, you're an accountant, you're a CPA, just do this. All right, I'll do this.
Brook:And as soon as I did, I realized that all the things I was trying to create bed and breakfast, a spa, I think there was something else on my list, but they were all around this concept of you're stressed out and you want to breathe, and I want to create space for people where they can relax and space for people where they can breathe. And business owners kind of are stressed and really hate doing their own books, kind of are stressed and really hate doing their own books. And so I can come in and help them kind of create a spa-like experience to just breathe, because we got the books, the accounting stuff done and then, literally, I was going to start just as a bookkeeping business and my other half looked at me and said you're a CPA, why are you not doing taxes? Why are you not doing the more complicated things? And I'm like because I'm scared. And well, stop being scared, just get out there.
Brook:And I remember when I'm first getting started, I'm literally like, okay, swallow your pride. You literally just need to tell everybody what you're doing and ask them if they need any help. It doesn't matter if you think they do or not. Anybody on your list, you just tell them what you're doing and you ask them if they need help. And I don't. Most of them. I didn't want to ask because I'm like I just want to do it and be successful. But like I don't know anybody else, like I don't know how to market, I don't know how to do any of this stuff. So I just and I was still working part-time for the it's Water for Good now, but they were different names then but the nonprofit side of things. So you know, I was trying to like figure out. So I kept going backwards in my pay to be honest, like. So I'm like cutting it in half with each space. But you know we're going to try this. Like I don't have kids at that point in time, like let's go through this and so I this and so, um, I my it.
Brook:It took a lot to just be like I'm going to ask whom ever, and not if they, if they don't answer me, if they say no, it means nothing about me, it just didn't need it, Like, and I can do my thing, and they can just know that I'm doing it. And one or two of them said, oh my God, yeah, I do have someone who needs something. And that starts to be the marketing learning how to market yourself. And I would show up at BNI meetings, which are places where you're only one person for each industry that you're in and you have to refer other people and they refer you and you go once a week.
Brook:And I needed that structure where I had to go every single week and I had to stand up and say who I am and what I'm doing and what I want, and be like, push myself to put myself out there. And that was really uh, I bottled it up, I bottled everything up. I don't think I realized at all how hard it was, but like, looking back, I'm like that was so hard for me to just put myself out there with almost no skillset, like I'm still pretty green, I probably look like I'm 10. Like all of those things, and just standing there and saying, hey, this is what I do, this is why it's worth you engaging in me and I have nobody to refer to you. But I'll pretend I do and like kind of work for them.
Zach:Do you feel like that ability to overcome and push that kind of button to get into that gear, if you will? Is that a product of running towards something or away from something, in terms of, like, working for somebody else or a certain?
Brook:I think it was probably more uh, I, I don't. I didn't have the like oh my gosh, I hate working for somebody else. Space piece of it. Um, I, I probably would have been fine if I stayed at the in the government like I would have. It'd been an interesting space that I would have probably developed into, but it would, I would have been fine. I just saw an opportunity and I didn't want to look back on my life and regret not taking an opportunity. So the putting myself out there may have been a bit about pride and just like oh my gosh, like I got to make this. But I also knew in the back of my brain at that point in time if I needed to pick up the phone and get back in the world I had left, I could have. I can't. Now All of those people are probably gone and it's a whole different story, but at that point in time my fallback wasn't destroyed Like I had opportunities if I really wanted them.
Paul:You mentioned about. There's a switch in that thinking where you ask the people who wanted help and then you force yourself into okay, I'm just going to switch and ask everyone what was that mindset switch that you had to adjust?
Brook:I didn't have money. I didn't have. I mean, I had a small job thing, but I knew if I wanted to get going with stuff. I needed to find things and I was too scared. I never have been able to do the cold call. I wonder, I probably could do it a little bit more today, but I was not really great at the like. Hey, I'm going to pick up the phone and call you and ask you if you want, and everybody says that.
Brook:No one likes that side of things. So I was too scared to do that, so I had to like, I had to ask somebody, I had to put it out there some way, and I don't think I mean this was 2008. So Facebook existed, right? I don't remember those marketing tactics being something that was largely stepped into. I mean it was starting maybe, but so it. I mean I remember MySpace Anyhow.
Brook:Not as all-encompassing Right, just a go-to, like it is right right I was like, okay, I can just put something out there for the world to know and like, try to market without ever making a personality, like I can market without ever seeing someone roll their eyes at me, right, um, and I I didn't, you know, I just you just kind of had to. So the like, was it pushing towards something? Yeah, I think it was more pushing towards something of like I want to see if I can do this, like, can I make this work? And if I need to, I need to find customers. And I just got to kind of put myself out there and try to do what I can do and experiment.
Brook:And I spent a ton of money and I had to give myself a lot of grace and learn to do this too. Of like I spent money on something that was kind of not beneficial at all. Either I didn't execute it right or it just doesn't mix my thing, but I had to experiment and I had to evaluate. And then I had to drop like I've done that so many times and oh well, like that's part of business and not beating yourself up for a decision that wasn't the most productive financially or even accomplishing vision wise.
Zach:Yeah, so tell us more about that. So once you are past that point, you've gotten to where you're asking for business. You're, you know, landing gigs of some sort. What then ended up being kind of your biggest learning curves through.
Brook:I remember the biggest.
Zach:Because this would be your first actual attempt at entrepreneurship, right Did you have any kind of smaller side hustle type things before this.
Brook:No, I didn't have any small. I was not like the teenager who had a little lawn mowing business or anything like that. I did none of those.
Zach:Yeah, so obviously you've got the background for the tax. You know how to stay compliant, but what are the things that you're learning?
Brook:Right, I mean the first times I'm doing tax returns I'm like freaking out. They took me hours to do one simple tax return. Because I'm like double checking, cripple checking, because I'm nervous Because also this may or may not have been smart. I did go to a public accounting firm but I was in consulting, I was not doing bookkeeping or tax, and so then I'm going to go out and try to do tax on my own without zero, like kind of doing it for real with somebody else, so I'm again.
Brook:I'm learning this my dad figured out, just figure it out. Okay, I'll just figure it out. And this might take me like five hours to do one tax return. That today would take me 20 minutes. But at that point in time, like I kind of totally went through that, I remember as far as my like big moments of stuff of me getting to the point where I'm like I can't be working from my house anymore. Like I go out and I meet people to pick up their tax returns and I try to print them off and like take it Like I need an office and that growth point to go okay, can I afford an office? I have to do an office. Like I need to have a space that people come to.
Brook:And then getting an office and then going I don't want to do the books for this person every single time Like, I need a bookkeeper who can come in and hiring someone. Um, I I uh hired probably two people before I hired um, jeanette, who's still on my staff, but I didn't keep any of those two people. And um, and I've gone through multiple like, but how do you hire people? And I'm actually, um, that's still probably not one of my best suits of stuff of figuring out how to interview people and read them, and I think the best of people versus trying to decipher the flags of like are they the right person for this? And for the flags of like, are they the right person for this?
Brook:And so, growing to the point where I was like, okay, now I have people, and each one of those steps I felt like I was going five steps back and praying to God it would allow me to go 10 steps forward. Sometimes it didn't. Sometimes, again, this is the like. All right, I'm going to experiment. I'm not going to beat myself up. Sometimes it didn't.
Zach:Again, this is the like. All right, I'm going to experiment, I'm not going to beat myself up. Do you feel like, overall, that framework has served you well and that you do find that a lot of those five step back type decisions?
Brook:have ended up being good for me. They are good. So me hiring the wrong person is uh always been costly. I, I need, uh it is important to try to learn and develop in those pieces of it. I do think that getting my head around and my concept to I need more than just me.
Brook:Yes, it totally helped me go five steps forward on on stuff, um, but the I did it cost me a good amount in that too, yes, you know, I looking back and I'm like dang, I probably could have a good chunk of money still in my pocket if I had not made some choices that I made. But also going, I like my life now, like I like what I've developed up. There are hard parts and there are exhausting parts, but I do like them, and so the harder parts probably in me looking back and I still think they are good is when I decided to actually read a book called Bold, I believe, and it said dream something big and bodacious and then try to make it happen, and I was like I want 10 offices in 10 years, so I don't remember what year this was 2017.
Zach:And was that goal just built out of ambition? Yeah, just, I was like.
Brook:I want to grow. I want to become more than just me. I want, I want to be a like, just a bigger. I didn't have a like. I want to be one of the big five accounting firms.
Brook:Like that was not anywhere in my brain, I just wanted to be bigger than me so that it's not just me who has to get all of the work done, and I think that was the huge piece of like. I want the flexibility that I have backup in place. I have different things in there and so. But sometimes, as you grow, it requires more of you than less of you, because what happens when the people you hire to do the work don't? Now you have to do it plus what you were doing, and so now you're doubled up on that piece of it. But I read that book and I was like I'm going to go buy an office. So I was brilliant. I live in Indianapolis and decided I would buy one up in Fort Wayne. It's only two hours, right Like, I can just drive up there. I'll hire someone to like manage that office and go from there.
Brook:Well, I hired the wrong person to manage that office and it was exhausting, like when you have someone you're trying to bring on all these brand new clients, help them not feel nervous about the switchover, and you have hired some of the wrong person on the bus in the middle of tax season. You can't just. I mean, I should have lesson learned too you can release someone in the middle of tax season, but I was like I have to keep them on. We got to just filter through. We got to like I did it all wrong.
Brook:I felt like and I don't know a hundred percent if it was all wrong because I mean, I, I I lost some clients. I still have clients that I had from when I purchased that side of things. But like I was exhausted and I said I'm not doing this again, I'm not buying another firm. Of course, as I'm saying this, I still would look at all of the things that the brokers that would send to me saying, hey, this person's looking to like sell or do whatever. It would send to me saying, hey, this person's looking to like sell or do whatever. And so, and a couple years later, two, three years later, buying Edgewater came up and they did exactly the same thing as we did, and my former name was Brookside Accounting. I hired someone to come up with my name, told them not to put my name in it. They put my name in it.
Brook:Everyone loved it and I'm like sure. But I was like all right, do I pick the Edgewater name or the Brookside name? And I'm like I'm totally keeping the Edgewater name for multiple different reasons, but largely I really hate saying this is Brooke with Brookside Accounting, and so yeah, and this location, this office had two locations. So now all of a sudden I had four locations in almost a five-year time frame and I was like well damn, like I totally put in my brain, in 10 years have 10 locations and about five years I've had four locations. Like I didn't even I told myself I dropped that dream like and I'm did it anyway. And then now I purchased another office and now I have it's been six years and I have five locations.
Brook:Since I've done that, and I'm like, okay, I, but I'm, I think I'm, I think I'm done, um, I'm going to grow a different way. Is is where I am, because that's, it's just um, it's, that's hard and um, and then that and that has become probably the hardest part is trying to morph in. It's not like you just hire someone and you get to pick someone who has the right mentality that meshes with you. I purchased something that has a bunch of mentalities that are not the same as mine, and not only me, and not only my employees, my clients too, have a different mentality, and so trying to mesh all of that and it's money, it's people's money and you want to watch someone get really mad really fast is when they're talking about their money, and even if you're not at fault or there's no, like you've done amazing service. If there is something that costs them money and they don't know you and they don't know how to trust you in that, they get really mad. And so then you have to filter through all of those kind of components of things and that is also hard of the journey of going.
Brook:Your anger, your disappointment, your wish that I would have operated different than I do. Your anger, your disappointment, your wish that I would have operated different than I do isn't me being a horrible person. I'm not falling apart. This is not falling apart. I haven't failed. I've actually grown a lot of things. And even if I fail and even if it all falls apart and I have to claim bankruptcy someday, because there are days when cash flow is not there and you're like, oh my God, the journey was still fun. I still had a lot of stuff in it. I've learned a lot, and I don't even know what I've learned. I'm sure it's like but green me back when I'm like, just like, all right, I'm going to go sit in this BNI place and tell you I can do this and puff myself up Like now, I, I, I know what I want to do. I know, um, I know how to talk through things with people. I love that part.
Brook:Um, and I've I've taken things to be more than just I'm doing. This is the other part of my journey of realizing I started this to help people not stress, and I realized a couple years in that they're still stressed because they just have to get their taxes done. They're still stressed by it. You're running your business. Thanks for doing my books. I'm still stressed by it.
Brook:So now the question is how do I help you become profitable? How do I help you work through that space of things? So I literally sat down this week Friday not this week, it's Monday last week with a client and he's like I have all of this ideas for this organization that I'm part of and how we need to structure the staffing. And I sat there and I asked him questions and I pulled it all down and we put it on a spreadsheet and he was like, oh my gosh, like you just lifted so much weight off of me because you took all of the weird thought patterns I had going all over the place and tried to concise them down into a spreadsheet-ish thing that I couldn't even wrap my head around to put there.
Brook:And now he can plan according to it and now he can do stuff with it. And that is so much fun for me to even go through my journey of going. I started it here with this place and goal. As I'm going through, I'm doing a good thing for people. You want to have a conversation about how do I save money on taxes, but really, at the end of the day, you have a vision for your life, you have a dream for it. You want to go someplace and you can't quite get there and it's really fun to sit with you and kind of help you figure that part out.
Brook:And to also know and this is the other part I know as I go through my journey is that every single one of the hiccups, every single one of my not being able to attain the goals or the things that I want to be, is because my brain, my thing, won't let me do it, for whatever reason that is. So when I say I can't cold call, I wonder if, at the beginning of this whole process, I had to just ask the people who I knew. But why could I not? I remember a long, long, long time ago he probably doesn't remember this Denny said hey, you're brand new to this. I'm an ADP, I do payroll stuff. Let's go walk from place to this. Like I'm I'm an adp, I do payroll stuff. Like, let's go like walk from store to like place to place. Like I'm totally green I don't even know if, like this is way long ago like we'll walk in together. We'll like cold call.
Brook:Like walk into right along yeah right and like, and I, and I think I gave him platitude of like, yeah, and then avoided it like the crap, like, but what would have happened if I would have gotten over my mental whatever block and tried to do that Like? Would I have had a few more opportunities that I didn't have today? Yeah, and like. What would go through my brain if I was able to not just pretend that everybody's wonderful and hire whomever says, yeah, I love this side of things, but actually willing to like. All right, like I see a flag, like I, I feel it, I feel the flag, but no, just stupid flag. You don't think like that about people. Like my brain, what am I doing that's blocking my path to stuff? Um, you stuff. Why am I not willing to put some structures in place and some business processes in place? That would just make things so much easier for my staff or whatever else.
Zach:And obviously you act as a tool for others to have that dialogue with themselves and run through that process. What are the tools that you use or have found useful for myself, for yourself and the conversation?
Brook:And then this is where I kick myself a lot, Cause sometimes I can sit down and do all of this stuff with other people, but I can't.
Paul:I can't.
Brook:I don't have a lot of energy to do it for myself and so, um, I, I you know it's that shoem's piece of thing. It's not the person I do the bookkeeping and accounting for so many firms. The last day thing I want to do is my own books. So I finally hired somebody else to do my own books because I'm getting big enough that it's a bigger deal to catch up on a bunch of stuff, like listening to my own advice that I give to other people is hard sometimes, but I not even. It's almost two years ago, I think I went through a spot not very healthy mindset wise. I had someone quit the very end of January, like I had hired them. They'd been on for four months and their whole goal, the whole reason I had them there, was because I had bandwidth issues for tax season and I had just acquired an office, and it burned me mentally and emotionally and physically all of it. And I have two small kids at that point in time I have a one-year-old at that, whatever, and a four I don't know it was three and so I I remember like I never have cried when someone quit, totally like was bawling, and I had a phone call right after that with my administrative assistant, I get on the phone and I'm like okay, suck it up. Like you're fine, you can do this. Like started talking and just started crying and she's like I think you need to take the rest of the day off. I didn't even get out what was going on. She's just like I have no idea why you're crying on me, but like you and um, but that was a very, very hard, hard season because I didn't have the right staff structure and it's really hard to find an accountant in the middle of that. You know piece of things, um, yeah and uh. And I had had a hard year before that, anyway, I think, cause I had had a kid and it wasn't a great birth, so I was still like off of that and then she quit these are all the mental side of things and that season was horrible.
Brook:And at the end of that season I bought an electric bike and I started to I mean, this is really, these are not business-y sort of things. I started to listen every. Actually the electric bike was not the first thing. I started to every day when I drove to and from work listen to a book. I would not let my brain start to go down whatever rabbit hill it needed to go down. It didn't get to go there, like I literally would listen to a book and then I would listen to a and um. Then I would listen to a uh, one time during the day, a meditation thing, um and uh, it was a great meditation. Uh, ryan Yogi and when you look up what his meditation is, you might laugh, if you know me but um, uh, yeah.
Brook:So, and I like just, and I do that every single day and I would find okay, find okay, I can take a deep breath. My brain wasn't spiraling into this. I built something up. I am crashing and burning. It's all falling apart. I'm going bankrupt. I don't know how I'm going to pay for things, because I had just bought an office too, and so when you first buy an office, there's a crap ton of money without out, without any coming back in, and so it just like it was this. But I'm trying to pretend a lot with people. I'm not going insane, we're not falling apart. I'm supposed to be the person who's inspiring everybody else, and I don't know if they can tell or not, but I'm not feeling any inspiration, like I am burning inside, and so I just I.
Brook:But I did a very simple thing I listened to a book and I did a meditation thing. And then somewhere along the lines, I have a friend, she has a podcast and all of this stuff, and she started talking about all the things she does which are very. At the time I kind of was rolling my eyes because I know her, and I was like wow, you feel like you're on the woo train of stuff, like okay, but it was something and things she was saying I was like okay, she's probably right, okay, I should probably do a few more things for myself. Like it's kind of pissing me off how much she's probably right, but like okay. So I started journaling too, like I started journaling in the midst of it too, and I read a book and I met you, I think somewhere in this process too. You I'm pointing to Paul, sorry and we started talking about and he actually pointed me to this guy, keith Cunningham, stop Doing Stupid Stuff. What's the book called?
Paul:The Road Less Stupid.
Brook:The Road Less Stupid and it's a brilliant concept. But he's like just make a question up and write answers Like think, stop, slow down, think. And his little slogan is you'll thank me for it later. Yeah, I kind of do. And so what became what I started to realize? And then I bought an electric bike and I would bike to work, but my headspace needed release, like I needed space to write things out. I needed space to listen to people and my first audio books I listened to were not business books, they were like Will Smith, which, whatever you think of whatever has happened like his book is phenomenal, and other ones that are like, and they were usually someone's memoirs or whatever Kind of a biopic.
Brook:Yeah, like just their journey, like just listening to, like, okay, everyone has gone through crap and they're going to come out on the other side and somewhere in that, slowly, not immediately, it was not overnight, and I'm not through probably parts of it. Like I, I felt like I had a breath, I started to have a vision, I started to paint a thing of like okay, what happens if we do this? What happens if we do that? And that's a big piece for me. A lot in my life is I often will dream up something I want to do. It's not big, it's little things. Like I wanted to go to Africa. So I went to Africa and I just sort of step into them somehow or another. I wanted to jump out of an airplane. I did that. Once I'm good, I wanted to jump out of an airplane. I did that once I'm good.
Brook:You know all of those things and I, for the longest time, wasn't, and I felt depressed and I felt lost. And I felt depressed because I wasn't thinking of anything I wanted to do and I was tired. I had two little kids who were like Mom and I had no space for me. And so, taking those small incremental pieces, so what is my thing, that I do for me is is focusing a lot on my own headspace and giving myself grace. And you know, to the point where I hardly work on the weekends anymore and I used to beat myself up while I wasn't working and so I just was anxious about the fact that I now I'm kind of like, probably should have I would have gotten a little further if I would have done this, but oh well, like I enjoyed my kids, I enjoyed my family. It's crap's going to come, crap's going to go, like we're going to be fine somewhere in there. So I um, I still beat myself up a little bit on the like I know how to walk other people through, what are the equations and the different pieces that need to be done, but sometimes I'm like, oh, I know I need to do this. Why am I not implementing this? So I need that coaching and inspiration and that accountability just as much as I am that for other people To have people go.
Brook:You said you were going to create a metrics that evaluated XYZ. Did you do that? No, okay, I'm going to set an appointment with whatever so that they do it each time, because I'm not going to be the one who does it, but like, at least I get it and so I. I need those just as much as I'm. I love helping other people see them and kind of work through. Although I'm really good at writing out my vision for things or my wants for stuff, it's sometimes the middle ground of like, okay, I know, how do I get there? Um, and my current one right now is by next June.
Zach:That was my next question, yeah.
Brook:My um. I want for the month of June. It's probably not. It's probably been part of month in June and July. Now my kid's in kindergarten next year. So I got the like school schedule way annoys me, um and uh, but I'm going to be a love my kid and let him go to school.
Brook:Um and uh. But so, like for June, like a month, I want to go somewhere, like I want to just, and I can be working there, like whatever that is. But I want to create enough space that, because I was realizing I feel trapped, because I want to travel, I want to go places, I want to, and I've always talked about spending a month somewhere or somewhere somewhere where you just get to sit and enjoy it, like and bring my kids, and I'm like not doing that, and I'm like I'm not doing that, I'm feeling trapped. So I own my own business. I set this up so I can work from wherever I can do that.
Brook:But it's become harder because now I have kids I'm like so, hire a summer nanny, let's go and do this. So now I'm trying to figure out okay, where are we going? Are we going to spend it in? Like Northwest Oregon, washington, like that space, are we going to go to Hawaii for a month? We're literally trying to get passports, which, by the way, is really annoying when you have two kids and you have to have both parents present and your other half happens to travel all the stinking time, and now you have to set up an appointment Long story.
Brook:If you need passports, do it, like right now, anyhow. Story. If you need passports, to do it like right now, um, anyhow. So I don't know if it'll be international side of things and so um, but like that's. That's my next. Like.
Brook:I want space to not only and things like this too, of where I'm not, I also want to from a business standpoint. I want to grow that conversation of. I want to help businesses grow. I've been, I I'm a very big. I like Disney, but not really because of the Disney stuff, but really because of their whole theme of like, make your dreams come true. Like I want to help people make their dreams come true, like whatever that is what that that growth is for them, that vision, whether it's an organization, a person like like I want to encourage it, but I don't want to be in the weeds of what you're doing. Like. I want to dialogue. I want to help you. I do want to be in the weeds, but not quite the weeds that people are like, but like really help you figure out what, what it is that you want to get to and how to help you get there, um, and you know what is the mental blocks that are coming into play for that. What are the people blocks, what are the process blocks? And so I want to be able to grow that support, such as this, this conversations that we're having here, um, different programs, but all of that, that piece is business wise.
Brook:What I want to do personal side, I want to enjoy that while also getting to travel places. So I want to spend a month somewhere. So that's my current like in the next year, like build this space and then also keep my kids so busy that they don't want to watch TV, which is really exhausting. That's just a side, personal thing of like I pick them up, I have to like, at the end of the day, I'm like I just want to veg in front of a TV and I'm like, nope, we're going to go swimming, we're going to do all of this stuff, but those are, you know, those are small right now, but they're really healthy for me to be just enjoying the moment that we're in and making sure that I don't um, someone sent me the YouTube clip.
Brook:Someday is not a day of the week Like um, and I didn't fully listen to the YouTube. I got through enough of it that I was like oh yeah, someday is not the middle of the name of the week, um and uh, so I don't, I don't want my someday to be out there, like I always wanted to do that. My other thing on my list is someday to I'd love to write a book, and I'm not really sure what that is or how that is. So I'm starting to like formulate those pieces. That's a still someday thing. I haven't quite figured it out, but it's coming together a little bit better than my former someday of that. I think that's been on my list for years but not articulated clearly, like it's like one of those subtle, like it's just back there and I'm starting to articulate it out of just saying something I want to do, like I'm actually telling people.
Brook:Right Starting to really materialize it, and it may be, it may be nothing, it may be a little short stories that I just published on my own and I just I got stuff out and it was fun for me. It might turn into something, it might be a kid's story, it might I don't know. But I want, I don't think it'll be a kid's story, I don't know, I might surprise myself, but, um, oh, so we'll, we'll see. On that side of things, um, I hope my journey is not over and so I just kind of keep coming up with something new. I also want a cold plunge. I'm having this very big debate with my other half because, um, those ice cold things.
Zach:I don't know this, I'm not familiar with this.
Brook:You don't know what a cold bath is.
Brook:No, I mean I, I, I know I'm taking an ice bath before, like sports injury or something, so it's supposed to be super therapeutic, like it helps with inflammation, it helps with metabolism, it helps with your mood, it helps, um, with your immunity, like all of these things like just like three minutes I don't remember how many minutes a week, but like jumping in three minutes a day or something like that. So, um, I got a really cheap $20 one on Amazon and I was like, okay, it doesn't have a top. So then I bought another one that has a top on it, but I still have to fill it with ice all the time. So now I'm like I want a real like bath bath one and I'm gonna put it in the backyard. That has like one of those heater things that heats it when I want to heat it and cool chills it, like so that I don't have to put ice in it. Like, um, so I want to have space in our backyard for them. So it's a current like thing that I have on my list that I'm talking my other half into just breathing and letting me have back there. So these aren't all I mean. I think that's, but they're not cheap too.
Brook:Business owners or people who are like the real push of why you're doing what you're doing is not necessarily the business being successful. I mean, at some level there's the pride of like I was like successful business. Well, what do you define as successful in your brain for that pride? But it's usually something else. Like I want to be able to travel a lot. I want to be able to buy things that I want to buy when I want to buy them.
Brook:Well, what do you want to buy? Like I want a Rivian truck. That's like ridiculously expensive sort of thing and I'm going to, like you know, maybe that's not, there's lots of ridiculously expensive cars out there, but like whatever that is for you, that you know I want a house in Hawaii. Or I just I want a simple house on the lake down the street. Like you know, whatever those pieces are, people have dreams that have nothing to do with work, that they do work for. That helps, you know, pulling out what is it that you really want and what is it that you're really trying to get to also helps, because sometimes you just spin the wheels on the wrong, and that's what I was finding when I was feeling trapped of like I'm just spinning the wheels and I can't leave and I'm like cause I'm not intentionally saying I want to go travel somewhere for four weeks just to travel somewhere um to expose my kids to do some stuff, and you know, the first time we do this, we're doing it in the U S somewhere.
Brook:The next time I want it to be international, like how, how do I? Those are my dreams are, but they come back to the business side of things, because I want a business behind the scenes that still functions just fine, while I also enjoy that and also creating space for my people to also be able to do similar fun things. Um, you know, and how do you? How do you create that balance of stuff?
Paul:But setting up your lifestyle, setting what you want out of life and setting the business up to support that is the key, I think, to being a successful business owner.
Brook:Definitely. Yes, I was about ready to say definitely like for smaller businesses, because that's the point of like, where you are, but I actually think it also applies for the bigger businesses too, so I stopped myself. Um, that you know you're owning your division, you're owning your they call them entrepreneurs you're not an entrepreneur and the fact that you are on out but you're inside of a system and you need to have the entrepreneurial mentality inside of like. How do I still accomplish all the goals they're asking me to do in a manner that doesn't kill me? And it requires you to figure it out, to think through stuff, to like to work. And sometimes that means you ask someone to brainstorm with you. Sometimes it means you get over your fear of asking for something.
Paul:I don't know.
Brook:Like there's lots of different pieces, but and your journey is not something where it's like you know, I, when I was first starting, I would have never been like, how do I afford a cold tub? Um, but uh, my, my pain points were a lot different, but really if I come back to it, it still comes back to I want the flexibility to travel. That's what I created to start with Um. It's kind of interesting how sometimes those goals all stay, stay there.
Paul:All right cool, I'm trying to think of. Is there anything? The one point, I think, the one little piece we can explore because it's part of the journey, if you like.
Zach:is your imposter syndrome yeah, that is something I meant to ask earlier on is like is there a certain point in this process where you feel you started to kind of come into, you know, grow into the shoes of the owner, if you will, and sort of wake up like you know, this is, this is me and I'm, I'm in this now, or does it still feel like a daily kind of evolution?
Brook:Um, I'm not sure.
Paul:I know how to answer that one or if I uh.
Brook:I mean, I remember those moments when I would spend hours doing a tax return and someone would question me on something, um, or like even me. Someone inquires of something on me and I give them the wrong answer. And they find out the wrong answer I was wrong in it, and how embarrassing that was at the beginning side of things. I still have moments where it's a topic that I don't know a whole lot about. I have learned a little bit more that I can still be confident in who I am and say I don't know a whole lot about that, but I'll dig into that and see what I can find. But they say using those all the time.
Brook:But as far as like, feeling like this is not really me, I don't know if I ever felt like I came. I know terms I've said have made it seem like that was what I was feeling. But I don't know if I consciously sat back and said I don't feel like I should be here. I think I was scared. Could I make this happen? Could I get to a spot? But like, am I an imposter? Like I shouldn't be here?
Paul:The one bit I was thinking was when you were doing the, you'd worked for the KPMG. Then you started doing your own tax returns and that piece was I was scared, I didn't know what I was doing.
Brook:So I guess that's the imposter part, and I think as I learned more and I felt more confident in what I was doing, a lot of that has kind of felt fallen away.
Zach:Um that's what I think is interesting is like the question of is it like the imposter syndrome subsides, but is it because you've acquired information on the journey that you needed at the beginning that you have developed, or is it learning just literally? The essence of not knowing is okay.
Brook:I think it's both. I think it's both. I think I learned how to do things, so I got in, I figured it out, and so there was an insecurity because I didn't really know what I was doing and would someone?
Brook:peg that and then not pay me and sometimes they did, to be frank. And so I think a good piece of it was I learned how to do something. I practiced it enough. I had those 10,000 hours of practicing something so that now I can fly through it much quicker. I've done it enough times. You've got the confidence in the results. Know this, but I don't know this, so I'm going to kind of try to pretend yes, I still do that on some topics, but at the same point in time have built enough confidence to say this isn't our sweet spot. So here's some stuff I know and here's some deductions that I need to like.
Paul:So I don't know if that's answering your question but I think for me it's a huge amount of like.
Brook:I just I've practiced my way out of that. Are there other owners who are better than me? Yeah, probably.
Brook:Depending on how you classify it. They've built stronger companies in some respect. Yeah, do I have some people who like working under my style? Yes, do I have some people who hate working under my style? Yes, and maybe I've just kind of come to peace with. We're all different, we all, and we're all good people inside. This is a personal belief that I think fundamentally. We've all had traumas that have impacted us. Who have been. You respond from that trauma and some people's trauma I want to bounce against, and other people's I don't, and I don't think that's bad. There's still plenty of opportunities out there.
Brook:And that was also something I remember I literally had a BNI meeting when I was first getting started no, it was at a Rainmakers meeting, which is a different type of networking side things but they literally were saying we're not nervous about having more than one person here because there's so much work out there. We all can stay employed, and that meant that it was a very interesting shift for me too of just going away from the scarcity mentality.
Brook:Yes, into a like there is enough work so that I can also say you client are not fun for me to work with, you're not fun for my staff to work with, and if you don't want to play, that's fine. Like we, you can go in different direction. This is not. This is I'm not going to crash and burn because one client doesn't like my style. If that makes sense, or you know and we're not free from mistakes we make mistakes and we try really hard to like, remedy that stuff.
Brook:You know, sometimes that's a component of us not working together with a client too from it, but most of the time it almost comes down to a communication style that just doesn't mesh for people. Not a good fit, not a good fit. Or we forgot to communicate, like it just is all there, or we forgot to communicate, like it it just is all there, and or they forgot to communicate, and so it just. I've come to a point with my scarcity mentality and I don't have to. I don't have to play with you if you're going to make my life exhausting and take up so much time that you're not worth keeping.
Zach:That's what we were talking about earlier.
Brook:Yeah, it's a it's it's a hard space to fire someone as a client.
Paul:Yeah.
Brook:It's a really hard space. But it's relieving and it's it is, and I don't know if it's better to build it to the point where they quit or I release them, or maybe you try to do both, cause I kind of try to do both, sometimes when I'm like, okay, let's just make this obvious, it doesn't work. Sometimes when I'm like, okay, let's just make this obvious, it doesn't work.
Brook:Um, but most I like a good majority of my clients, you, you tend to find the people who mesh with you, um and yeah, and same thing with your clients, like they're my client, like these are the people who want the stuff that we provide, and um, yeah, it, it. It usually flows somewhere in there and so, um, it's still journey, still learning all of the stuff.
Zach:How are we doing on time Nine o'clock? Oh, okay, perfect, cool. Well, thank you for being on the podcast today, brooke, we appreciate your time. And, uh, please, uh, remember to tune in next week for Paul McCoy and his origin story of whatever his book is called.
Paul:Yeah, exactly. Thank you, guilty, as charged. Just kidding, no, but I need it. I need it.
Zach:That felt good. How did you feel about that?
Brook:Yeah, I can talk like that all day long Cool.
Paul:That was really good. I wanted to interject, but you were flowing. It was just.
Zach:Sorry, I do that.
Paul:No, yeah, it was perfect. Thank you Bye.
