The Owner's Odyssey
The Owner's Odyssey is a business podcast focused on exploring the unique journeys of real business owners co-hosted by Brook Gratia, Paul McCoy, and Zach Jones.
The Owner's Odyssey
Crafting Identity Through the Sounds of Success with Zach Jones
Embarking on a quest for entrepreneurial wisdom and personal transformation, we traverse the highs and lows of business growth and self-discovery with Zach Jones. The narrative weaves a tapestry of creative ambition and leadership evolution, transitioning from corporate structure to the rhythm of hip-hop production and back again. Our candid discussion sheds light on mentorship's profound influence, the art of conflict resolution, and the power of embracing one's weaknesses to uncover new strengths.
Within this episode's harmonious blend of personal anecdotes and professional insights, Zach reveals his personal rollercoaster ride—from mastering payroll management with no prior knowledge to flourishes of transparency and direct engagement that shaped his journey in the financial sector. Zach's eclectic and creative voyage underscores the authenticity that fuels his musical endeavors, as we examine the role of experiential learning and an instinctual knack for sales in crafting his unique hip-hop identity among the many other hats he wears with pride.
Join us as we examine the psychological nuances of color in branding, the balancing act of personal and professional growth, and a little sneak peak at Zach's music chops. Join us in celebrating the enduring spirit of tenacity and the rich rewards found in the odyssey of ownership at any level.
Hello and welcome to the Owner's Odyssey, the podcast where we delve deep into the transformative stories of courageous business owners who have embarked on an extraordinary adventure. I'm Zach Jones and I'm Brooke Gattia. We're here to explore the real life experiences of entrepreneurs.
Brook:Each episode, we'll embark on a quest to uncover the trials, triumphs and transformations of remarkable individuals who dared to answer the call of entrepreneurship.
Zach:Like all adventurers, our guests have faced their fair share of challenges, vanquished formidable foes and braved the unknown.
Brook:Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a seasoned business owner or simply an avid listener hungry for captivating stories the Owner's Odyssey is here to help you level up.
Zach:So join us as we embark on this epic expedition. This is the Owner's Odyssey. Let's start our adventure.
Brook:Yeah, it's crazy. So today, yeah, so.
Zach:I guess we're talking about me now.
Paul:Yep, zach's in the barrel, zach yeah.
Brook:So I purchased Edgewater 2018.
Zach:End of 18, beginning of 19.
Brook:Beginning of 19,. Yeah, somewhere around there, and Zach came with a deal was kind of the package piece of of things. He was the payroll man, um, so he would. He was running the payroll. I think the prior owner had hired you actually to be a sales, but then it was. It didn't work out and you landed in the payroll side, um, and it didn't take me long to figure out that that was not your sweet spot at all.
Zach:Yes, you, we can. I may play with the editing of how transparent I am about this story. I'll give you guys the most thorough version and then decide what.
Zach:I keep.
Zach:But um yeah. So I came on with Derek uh, and it had been a very transparent conversation with him of I am excellent with people. I'm excellent with problem solving. I learn on the go. I don't know anything about the financial space right now, and it's something that.
Zach:I'm interested in, but you know, I kind of need a program. Derek Smith ever the salesman was like yeah, buddy, come on. Like, well, I'll, you know, we've got the whole program. I'll kind of let you shadow whatever needs to be shadowed. You pick up what you need to pick up. It's really simple. I've got a whole sales process for you, so on and so forth.
Zach:Came on, maybe a month goes by and for unforeseen circumstances, the payroll manager has to be let go at a moment's notice and Derek just throws me into that role, like literally in the moment, not really you know, not much of an ask, but just can you do this? Also, you know, throw some additional stuff your way for figuring this out and then kind of tried to walk me through that process. It was very much so, not your wheelhouse, it was not my wheelhouse, it was also just learning on the go. It was, and and that's where derrick and you were very different there actually were some similarities that I like see the more time I spend, but like in the on the good, on the good, sides on the good sides of things.
Zach:But, um, and Derek is an awesome person. Yes, derek is absolutely amazing and I am super grateful for the opportunity and the faith that he had in me in that process and, you know, the learning opportunity in general it all was great. But, um, the difference between you two is that, uh, derek was so packed and so busy constantly with whatever. The next thing was that he wanted you to figure it out like to a fault. He wanted you to go, you know, dig it out Like literally. He'd rather you Google it and figure out like just the most basic version of it and kind of field the correction than to put the foundation there. So a lot of what I learned up to the point of you coming in was just strictly through osmosis. It was through my ability to interact with the customers and you know, kind of do the fake it till you make it game with them and you know pick things up through what they were requesting and kind of get the regular SOP of things and then Google, uh.
Paul:Google yes, exactly.
Zach:Just like what you could have done with chat GPT.
Zach:Exactly so. That, I think, was the biggest thing. And when you came in, I had this increased pressure and increased desire to put things in the right spot. Start from, yeah, the right spot, kind of put things in the foundation and just like, over and over again, it kept kind of being revealed the degree to which, you know, everything was a patchwork before that.
Zach:Um. So I was, you know, kind of balancing that act of like. I'm wanting to keep pushing forward with this and also be transparent with you, because you know, those kinds of things are kind of a cascading failure where, if you let that go for too long, all of a sudden there's something where you've made a real mistake. So, um, you know, I had that conversation with you and, uh, kind of explained to you the initial trajectory that I had seen, and I think it ended up being a good thing, because if I had not done that and I had just gone the sales side of things, I don't think I'd have the same insight to how the business owners communicate and how they think and, um, kind of the pacing of those conversations and just my overall financial understanding.
Brook:Because it sounds like it's the. It's the operational piece of things, of going all right. I, you have a personality that is engaging and you are a visionary. You see things and you get excited about those pieces of it. But a vision requires execution and there are details to those execution and I think you started in the details of the execution.
Zach:Well, and I can tell you exactly what my issue is there too, and it's that I am all of those things that you're saying and I very much so.
Zach:Look at the big picture and the system, and this is to a fault and something that I'm working on, but it's like even if all of the pieces are there for my piece and I should just be chugging along, like if there's something anywhere else in the system where I see room for improvement, or, like you know, if, again, I think that, like foundationally, we kind of like started in the wrong spot or whatever, like if it's not aligned with the actual goal, I really really struggled to put the hustle behind it in the wrong direction, if that makes sense, or what I perceive in the moment as that wrong direction, and it's not that the longer I go, the better I get at realizing that I can have that thought, but, like, actionably, I'm in this chair or that chair and so I need to continue, you know, plugging along as though I don't have that information at light or, like you know, put that in its right place in terms of planning and you know that kind of stuff and that's a hard part.
Brook:from almost the owner's space of things going, you provide direction of like hey, I need to have X, y, z, three things put in place and people are sure if I can do it. But if they don't see the reason, the why behind it, the jumping into doing it gets kind of lost.
Zach:Right and the second. There's something that's a variable that you didn't plan for in that procedure that they need to adjust. They're unable to because they don't understand the point. They just know the rote memorization of what you've.
Brook:The hard part comes when, for most I think for most jobs whatever you're doing, you can know the point you can get. People can paint that picture, but sometimes there's times you're asked to do things and you don't, when you're never going to be told the why behind it. Right, but that's also why I'm not in the military, because I can't handle not knowing the why behind things. Um, that's no military side of things, but um, yeah, so then we, we, I kind of like I remember doing a personality test on like all the staff and you were like everyone.
Brook:There was no judgment of the personality. It was just like how much effort does it take for people to shift from um problem solving to detail oriented, to personality side, like how big of a everyone can do it, but how much of a push is it to go from one to another? And you were like the most extreme person I had of like totally personality, like totally vision, and for you to jump to detail side of things was like 20 cases, like in most people, were like three. It was like it was a serious jump for you on things. I think that's when I started to go Hmm, he's totally. I mean, I already knew, but he's, he's in the wrong seat from that aspect of things. Yeah, absolutely.
Zach:And that's, and the only you know, in the payroll manager thing, the only reason that I I had not asked Derek to kind of refill that role was that we were kind of talking about that ultimately evolving into like a people manager role of the kind of you know overarching thing, and that's what I was interested in. So it was kind of that like okay, let me crash course it in this you know spot where most everything can be fixed, um, and then you know figuring out from there.
Brook:So when I pushed you into pushed I, I remember sitting down with um Denny, who is kind of a coach side of things, and said hey, so, um, yeah, I want you to come in and help me develop up like this business development side of things, and I have. Well, I think, before I even hired him, I had started to ask you to do some stuff.
Zach:And.
Brook:I would try to put out there like here are the things I do, but I didn't. I didn't know what it was that I was doing that was successful, which is also very hard when you're trying to train someone else If you don't understand what those are. And I remember we would sit down and we'd talk and be like that's not working. All right, let's, let's brainstorm through why that's not working. And finally he asked me he's like are you sure he's the right one? And I'm like I really feel like he's really good, but please, could you interview him, could you let me know? And he interviewed you and then, like he's going through the kind of course thing that he has with you and he kept pinging back to me of like Zach's awesome, like he's got the like drive and this push and this desire to learn this.
Brook:And we run through examples like what are those? Yeah, like role-playing, role-playing. And he's like, and he fully jumps in, like full in role-playing, to go through it. I personally probably would not have fully jumped in, I would have been rolling my eyes the whole time, but he's just like he's all in about learning how to kind of pull into it. So tell me about that journey for you of like, going from the like I'm going to be the detail person to having to be in front of people and try to communicate the vision for this organization, which you've been a part of, but now on a bigger scale. What was there? Parts of it that were scary, exciting? Um, you're still trying to figure out, uh yeah.
Zach:So, um, I think first off that was a unique experience because academically I had always kind of been leader of the pack like excelled in that space and had good mentorship in that space and good relationships in that space with teachers and just people with experience and that kind of thing and then had also had this kind of adjacent professional experience since the age of 14, probably. I mean, I've always been selling something, like you said in your episode or maybe Paul's like we're always selling something Ever since you were a kid.
Brook:You're selling them to give you your ice cream pops, Exactly yeah.
Zach:So I mean I worked at a deli and a Starbucks. Your barista yes, I worked both of those jobs for a while and actually did general manager training with Starbucks, which was amazing because they have a very very clear program with very clear kind of SOP and a mentality behind all of it, and you know, I'm now I.
Brook:Why didn't you stay in there?
Zach:So I kind of have always had a back and forth of just a natural like hustle and entrepreneurship kind of side of things and a passion for creative stuff. So I have gone back and forth between taking one or the other more seriously, and that's a big part of it. When I was in that process I would have been 18. And I would have just graduated high school early to work on a project with a recording label and do like an engineering internship with them. So that was, I had kind of talked to school about that and all of these other things and so I've got a crazy opportunity record I have.
Brook:Yeah, I actually, and I loaded up school about that and all of these other things, and so I've got this crazy opportunity.
Zach:Uh, record I have. Yeah, I actually I and I loaded up some music that I can I'll play. I'll play a couple of songs for you guys.
Paul:I've got four CDs you have working on the fifth.
Brook:You've got four CDs out. You wrote your own.
Zach:No this is just a very nice. What genre like here's this rap, right? So I have. I'll play you a couple different things. I started out singer-songwriter, um, and I genuinely wanted to be a studio musician. So I wrote a bunch of different things with very different sounds to them, trying to be as diverse as possible. And then, late in high school, I kind of fell in love with hip-hop and I had this idea of first off, I couldn't stand white rappers because they are playing in black culture and never give it proper respect or, like you know, proper appreciation or understanding or any of those things. It's always this kind of like culture vulture situation I'm sure people have their one or two names that they can name or whatever.
Zach:And over time I learned that there are people that had that presentation, that just thought, for whatever reason, that was what people wanted to hear musically, but then did the right things with their money and their free time and all of that. But anyway, I just got compelled by this idea of, like I want to make hip hop that has the Will Smith morals, without, like, the Disneyfication, the like removal of the edge and I don't even necessarily agree that the edge is removed from some of those artists, like it's kind of always the consensus. So I was like, let's see what we can do there. Um, I should probably just play some now, since we're talking about it. Okay, so let's see.
Zach:Okay, so this was the original type of stuff that I worked on.
Zach:And I don't know if I'm smart enough To figure you out, babe. I don't know if I'm Cool enough To get you out of this place. I don't know if I'm Real enough To see through Smoke in the mirrors in your head. I don't know if I'm anything. I don't know if I'm ready. I don't know if I'm telling you the truth. I don't know if I'm steady enough For your love, babe. For your love, for your love.
Zach:Yeah.
Brook:So that's how I started.
Zach:Was very kind of acoustic, john Mary kind of stuff and you didn't stay in it, because I still write stuff like that every once in a while. But I felt like I had a more interesting niche thing with the hip hop stuff.
Zach:And you'll see how it kind of evolves.
Zach:I went from there to kind of a like four piece rock band thing. That was a little bit more classic rock kind of style. So I'll play you one of those.
Zach:Okay, guitar solo Choke and bone in black and white Grow up in color. It all starts to blur. Seems like they just turn tonight. They find some problems. Then the questions become jerk. We're to the side of a blinding town.
Zach:We're up on the king's crown. We're blood on the sissie dew. Yeah, yeah, we stare inside and as we play, as our colors fade away. We've been made to do, we fade away.
Zach:Shades of grey. I will never stay the same. We lose our names.
Zach:Inside these games, but the sound will still remain so a little, a little different. Yeah, was that your band? That was all me. Yeah, wow, um, yeah, I've always kind of done it all myself, okay, so, um, I think I, more so than anything, really had the goal at one point, like very, very early on, that I was like I'm going to write, record and release an album with no help.
Brook:Like why did you album art?
Zach:all of that. Um, growing up my dad always had a recording studio and uh, you know, it was kind of just independent and hustling and I always appreciated and I think the musicians around him always appreciated the fact like they were like your dad can do anything, like any person in here, like if they were sick he could do their job and sit in on that other chair. So like the value of that kind of jack of all trades thing in a creative space is very, very strong. So I was always interested in that.
Brook:So is it for more from you? Want to learn every aspect of it, or more like? I just can do this on my own, I don't need any help.
Zach:No, I think it was like an interest in learning every aspect of it. It was also an idea of like there's always kind of this collaborative element of working with other people and I think early on, like very early on, when I tried to be in band kind of settings, I struggled to compromise on the things that I really liked in that musical space. So I uh, that was also a thing too, where I was like I want to see what this sounds like, completely uncompromised.
Brook:How does that morph over into a kind of not that that's less professional, but more your professional space of things, of?
Zach:going. Oh yeah, for sure.
Brook:That independent like I? Like, do you look back and go? I wish I had not done it without any help. Like I think I could have learned something from people still known it, but like, because I chose to do everything on my own, I missed out on something. Like, is that any part of that for you?
Zach:I don't think so, because maybe it would change if the question was you know, you only have this one album that you get to make. I do feel like it was a valuable learning lesson that now I'm excited to work on other projects and incorporate other people and, you know, add that formula into the mix, now that I kind of know what my thing is.
Paul:And know where your skills are and where you're, I suppose, where you want to be.
Zach:Yeah, and the interest in it. You're absolutely right. I mean, there's definitely parts of that process that were grueling and unappealing and then parts of it that you know I can see, like you've got to get into that space.
Brook:Do you feel that flowing into your like professional space too? 100%? So how does that play out in today's world for you?
Zach:I think that there are a few things that come to mind with that. One is that we occupy a space where the type of business that we engage in is highly based on personality, like the service itself is transactional, or the tax prep itself, or you know, whatever the product is, but like working with somebody that makes it pleasant and that is congruent with your beliefs or your values, or whatever that is is really the important part.
Zach:And I feel like I would not have the same insight into the struggle and the kind of this is my baby feeling that business owners have and uh, as well as just kind of like the the lost feeling and the doing it all yourself feeling. I mean that really it's something that I, you know. Like I said, I kind of go back and forth between um, at this point I know I could make money doing it, um, and so now it's just really like yeah is that where I want to put my time?
Zach:And I feel like I, uh, there are times where I wonder if I should kind of all in on certain things in life, but I I do. Uh I was talking with Paul earlier about like one thing I want to ask business owners is what is your superpower, um, and I think that I have two uh that I've identified. One is triangulation, uh, and that is one is triangulation, and that means that, uh, I have done enough things and have enough of a judgment free viewpoint that, um, I'm able to kind of find middle ground and fairness, I think, a lot better than most, and that's kind of a strong suit that I have. So, like conflict resolution and client support when something's on fire, and all of those kinds of things where you have to step outside of yourself and see the bigger picture and find that actual middle space.
Brook:So maybe you should have been a lawyer who's a mediator.
Zach:Oh, I definitely could do that.
Brook:You totally rocked that. The divorce mediation. The other word is strangulation.
Zach:Strangulation, whether I'd be good at it and whether I'd want to, or vastly different things. But yeah, so I think triangulation and just in a lot of things like that. Like I was telling him, my parents were very different people. My mom was very A-type, proactive, organized positive.
Brook:Your dad was a hippie.
Zach:And my dad was a total hippie, Kind of a cynical hippie. A little bit of a juxtaposition there, Um. So yeah, I just think that I, you know, you kind of get a different perspective when things are varied like that and I've just kind of been able to jump into whatever pool.
Zach:And then that kind of plays into number two, which I think is we'll call swimming upstream which is I think uh, I internalized this moment that a high school teacher at one point was kind of talking to me and telling me some things about his life and figuring out what he wanted to do. I was applying for colleges at the time and trying to figure out what was next, um, and he was saying that it's kind of natural to play into your strengths, um, but your strengths are already strong. So like, if you are the one person that can lean into your strengths, but your strengths are already strong, so like, if you are the one person that can lean into your weaknesses and find those spaces where you're able to do that and strengthen those muscles that you don't have developed yet, then, like, you will find different opportunities and kind of just.
Zach:It was just kind of this like separate path you know that that could be, and it wasn't like a do this kind of thing, but he was just saying you know, you're like so versatile that if you jumped into the things that you're uncomfortable with, like imagine how wide your comfort zone would would end up being. And I feel like ever since I've kind of internalized that of like what's the next thing that scares me, and how do I somewhat safely jump into?
Brook:that that connects to two of your past things of like you sat in a payroll position that was not your strength, and so you're like I'm going to lean into my weakness and figure this out and I am going to learn how. I'm going to lean into the weakness of not knowing how to do every part of a album and I'm going to figure it out and from that going to gain the experiences that kind of I want from that. And then they inform.
Zach:I mean, it informs your experience for when you go back and you do focus on the thing that you like to do about it or you know the part of it that you want to build on. So I think that's um, you know, I think when I was younger I was like how am I going to decide what I want to like? There's too many things to try, and the older I get, the more I realize that it's not I can continue to try everything that I want to.
Zach:It's about doing it in a way where I can commit to my past commitments and continue to build and like continue to create something, like create momentum and kind of evolve and not just pick up a new thing for six months, you know, shift it off board.
Paul:There's another piece to that, I think, is when you get the feeling I came across this very recently but started doing something I went, oh, I realized I don't like this. And then you get someone else to do it because you've gone through that pain, that emotional feeling of oh gosh, I really don't want to do this, and then you just outsource it, Having gone through it and realize it's not something you can do it.
Zach:Yeah, you don't have to, yeah, and that, that that's that is very true. That's something that I always kind of have to um, or maybe have in the past you know, kind of interacted with, is like am I avoiding this because I can't do it or because I don't want to do it? And then, once you've completed it, you can say, for sure, like I just don't like this.
Brook:So how do you, how do you balance the all? Right, I'm going to step in, leaned into my weakness, my less strength, without totally like messing it, the crap up, um, where you were just like okay, Uh, like, how do you balance the? I'm going to step into something I'm not strong on, but I'm not going to break it.
Zach:Yeah, I think part of it is transparency, especially when it comes to work, because I think that's something that I've always maintained, particularly with you is just like blunt transparency of like.
Zach:I think this is going to work or I don't think this is going to work so that we can work through that.
Zach:Going back to the wise.
Brook:Yeah.
Zach:And then the other piece of it, I think, is, you know, just kind of doing I don't know it's doing due diligence, but it's also. I think there is just something to learning how to learn, like I'm very good at doing things I don't know how to do, which is an interesting thing to assert, yeah, but I think you might agree with me that you would feel the same kind of way and that's like I. I have a high level of confidence when I'm unsure, uh, that through good judgment and diligent kind of uh support of you know any kind of notions that I have or actions that I take, like 99% of the time, that's going to get you most of the way there.
Brook:To me, it's a tenaciousness of like okay, I'm just going to sit here until I figure it out.
Zach:Yeah.
Brook:And yeah, it might take me 12 hours, that once I figure this out, it's going to take me 30 minutes. But you kind of just know you have to go through that process of sorts, right?
Zach:And just always asking yourself like, have I done everything that I can do? Like that's the other? You know, piece of it is that I don't think anybody. And all of this is with the grain of salt that you know. You can't be a heart surgeon this way.
Brook:No, yeah, but even they had to at some point, and they do to this day of like each, and they do to this day of like each person who comes at them with a new heart. You have to figure out what it is Now. They probably don't rip you open to figure it. I mean, I don't know, I'm not a researcher, right.
Zach:But yeah, the level of gravity of the thing, how?
Brook:you play, yeah right.
Zach:Sort of warrants the level of experimentation that can happen there. So with us it's kind of always keeping that pulse of like, hey, is this working? Are you feeling like we're at least going in the right direction with this? And if we are, then that's pretty much good enough, because we're taking care of what needs to be taken care of.
Brook:I love that I do being taught how to figure things out, and not that teaching at schools or anything are failing on that, but just that concept of figure it out. I mean I think you recall my dad always would say, just figure it out and like how much I'm like why can people not just figure it out? And I don't even, maybe it's even more of. It's not that they can't figure it out, it's that it's the tenaciousness, Like they don't want to figure it out.
Zach:They're to figure it out. Yeah, and I mean, I think it really is how you frame things for yourself too, because, like, especially post internet and now post AI, like learning is different.
Zach:If you are still doing rote memorization and you know working on memorizing the 50 States, or you know learning how to read a paper map, or you know one of these things, then, like I hope it's in your hobby time, because I really want to teach my kids how to read an actual paper map, and that's what I'm saying that's totally fine and like I understand all of the things that like go into that, but just like from a like, if we're talking about building out an academic schedule for children now, it's like like search engine optimization and understanding how to find the information that you're looking for and how to then vet that information, figure out whether it's actually accurate.
Brook:We're going totally off on a tangent, so I will. There's probably a part of me that's pushing back, I guess, a little bit. I remember someone asking me accounting professor going should we be teaching people more how to use a software or how to do like paper accounting stuff? And I literally was like no, you teach them how to do the paper accounting stuff because the softwares will constantly change. You need to understand what a debit and credit is and like how it'll find you, so that when the software presents you something and the software is wrong, you can tell the software you're wrong.
Zach:Same thing I do with taxes.
Zach:You're in that essence, though, like the paper, pen and pad thing is not as important as what you're articulating, is that the fundamental information, the fundamental accounting information and concepts are important, which I'm essentially agreeing with you on that side, but then saying the tool, my, my, uh, I think what I'm saying is more so like even don't teach them, uh, one software, teach them how to engage with a new software that they don't know and identify all of those tools and all of those different things, so that you're never learning that right, so that you are versatile with whatever is evolving? And I think so. Yeah, we're saying the same thing from different I think you need both now.
Brook:Unfortunately, like you can't just learn the paper way of doing things, you also have to have that fundamental plus. How do I navigate?
Paul:technology of sorts um going back to the childhood, I think. In you know, going back to your, your father said go figure it out. And then you spin it forward to the snowplow parent.
Paul:That just pushes everything out the way and does it for him, does it for them and I've been guilty of that and I'm going back and I'm going shoes, I've got to do something different. You know how do I re stop doing it for her? And, uh, let do it, because in a month's time she's gone. You're kind of late. Yeah, I am. That's going to be totally rude. No, no, no, the reality is true.
Brook:And yet they probably still will figure it out, different than we may have wanted them to, but they'll still be fine. Half of it, I think, is dealing with your emotions, but that's a whole different subject. So I want to come back to one of these. A question off of your thing. So you said you like to step into your weaknesses. What is your current step into weakness that you feel like you're trying to figure out?
Zach:Cooking.
Brook:Cooking. Yes, if we're talking about the personal side of things. A little bit of both.
Zach:Okay, talking about the personal side of things, a little bit of both, okay.
Zach:um, yeah, I uh, we have always, my wife and I have always just accepted that, like, food is not our thing and we like to eat out and we like to be waited on and you know whatever so that's like the main expenditure, like everything else is exhausting how much you spend on food sometimes yeah, pretty fixed, but that side of it we're just like you know what that's the best part of the day and um, you know, and I I'll always finesse with the math in my head of like well if I spent that hour doing some other type of thing, then really I can make that money back and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah and finally I just was like I don't know how to cook and.
Zach:I need to know how to cook. So I would say, for the last three months or so I've been cooking about five times a week and kind of doing meal preppy stuff for breakfast and lunch and those kinds of things. Um, I'll tell you about a interesting dish that I made because we hosted for fourth of july so I wanted to do something uh ambitious so I made a uh, what was it?
Zach:it was called a chicken bacon alfredo lasagna roll, okay, and what you do is you take, uh, take a bunch of bacon, like 16 pieces of bacon, and you actually lattice work them together, um, and then you fill that with the lasagna noodles and then you get pulled chicken and do an alfredo sauce and a spinach and tomatoes in there and put all that together, and I think there's maybe one other like layer to it, but anyway the whole thing gets wrapped up together and then baked inside the bacon lattice work, so it kind of comes out looking sort of like a beef Wellington type loaf sort of situation. So good though.
Brook:That was so. You're gonna be making us a meal. I'll bring the wine, I'm really good at buying wine.
Zach:I have started getting. I have started getting better. We're in a weird phase of human society where I feel like I'm embracing AI tools and all of these new apps and learning things and they're helping you learn how to cook and occasionally it will make you feel superhuman.
Zach:Like when you successfully hack something with either somebody's technique or an app that has a regiment or whatever it's. It's like pretty incredible, the things you can do. Now, speaking of which, the other thing I've been trying to work on is exercise, cause I I've always just been in decent shape, naturally, but never put any time into that. Um, and I just can't stand it. It bores me and I can't focus on it.
Paul:Um, so you're trying to work out cooking and exercise together.
Brook:I know that's a good mix.
Paul:Yeah, you know good combo.
Zach:So what I've discovered on the workout side of things there is an app on the MetaQuest VR headset called Supernatural.
Zach:That is like a P90X level intensity workout, but it is all inside VR and you have these targets that you're hitting in various different activities and stuff, but they basically just zap you off to some unbelievable locale, like in nature in Bolivia or in the middle of Argentina or something, and it everything is to music tracks and they've got very current music and everything's choreographed, so it's like just like playing a video game, but at the end of like 35 minutes I've had like orange theory, level heart rates and uh you know you have to do it in an added room because you might fall off you need, you need a six by six space, right, uh, but other than that, okay
Paul:it's not bad I've seen. I saw an advert, probably when I was away, that uh, the guy's punching the heck out of a flat screen.
Zach:You know you definitely need a good room for it. Yeah, we, we move some stuff.
Brook:not sharing your headphones because they're sweaty and nasty is what you're telling me also, you definitely have to wipe things down.
Zach:It's now a piece of gym equipment in the house. If we have one for gaming or an office space or whatever, it'll have to be a separate one.
Brook:That is very cool, that you're kind of like I'm going to make this fun for me and this is how it is fun for me, because, I will agree with you, I like working out is I can only do it for a small period of time and I'm like totally yeah, or it is probably a great terminology for it.
Paul:so, um, here was me just buying a pickleball set for my wife.
Zach:Pickleball yeah, I, yeah, I've heard, I've heard. That's a lot of fun.
Brook:I'm not uh my parents are into that all of a sudden, so yeah, there's some new courts, in science also.
Paul:We saw them being being installed and assembled and built. Uh, when we're out there in the winter, so what's your professional stepping into?
Zach:my professional stepping into right now is developing some more official partnerships. I think um, I think I'm interested in is that?
Brook:is that hard for you? I feel like that's something you're good at.
Zach:I think it's hard for me.
Brook:Let me rephrase Um, what I'm stepping into at work is keeping all engines going simultaneously which is very hard which is very hard so are you asking for help in this, or are you?
Zach:is this one of those? I mean, I'm going to figure it out. So I think Denny is a support in that um to some extent, and I think that I have been um with us putting the podcast together. I've been kind of more active, actively consuming self-help stuff and both books and podcasts and those kinds of things, and I feel like I'm starting to, for the first time, kind of apply some of those atomic habits style things. And I think the issue that I've had for a long time is that I beat myself up really, really hard when I know I am behind on something and I've kind of got a schema in my head that that's how I light the fire and push myself back into a productive place. And it's not, it's the opposite. It really is that like in those spaces, what helps me is like connecting.
Zach:It helps me to connect to the team, like it helps me to talk to you, because I very much so like uh like you personally and your or your like vision and your kind of approach to all of this is part of what keeps me here very much, so like I believe it and I believe that you believe it and those kinds of things. So for me, um, I have to get away from like taking other people's advice on what motivates them and cause, especially in sales. A lot of times I try to talk to other salespeople and that kind of thing and it's like there's a lot of money, motivation and that kind of stuff and I, frankly, that's like not very high up on my scale. It's like I like doing something worthwhile, I like doing something that I feel good at and I like doing it for people that I want to see.
Brook:I find so much that money is never the mode.
Zach:I mean, it's what people come back with.
Brook:The one is is what you have to tap into for people and so, but that is. It is very interesting. It's cool, I think, as you're saying that of like everyone's motivation piece and what you internally get in your brain, like how do you get over your internal stuff and you, sitting back going it's other people, whereas I mean that's extrovert, introvert, you know, piece of things I mean and I don't know that it's everybody that feels that way, but it's like for me personally, like I have enough stuff going on and things that I know I'm capable of.
Zach:That, like if I wanted to work for me or if I had, you know, if there was some other vision that I saw, that was like there you know I can do.
Brook:If I thought going to you know hitch to somebody's wagon, then like it's going to be something you enjoy and you're excited about, right, and I feel like that's powerful Um somewhere in there, so I like that.
Paul:It's the music. Did you go down? Go get a third.
Brook:Oh, yes, yeah, here let's, uh, yeah, so he wants to hear the the hip hop one.
Zach:Absolutely, let's see here, so yeah, I I picked a couple of my more tame I feel like you know, in terms of the uh content, I stand by all of it, but I don't like to uh subject the professional crowd to profanity without proper warning, so uh here we go, have whatever you like, have whatever you like.
Zach:Baby girl, it's alright cause I got you. Have whatever you like. Have whatever you like, baby girl, it's alright cause I got you. You know I got you right. Let go. Na na na, na, na, na, na na na oh, na na na na, na-na-na-na, na-na-na-na, oh-ah, na-na-na-na.
Zach:You've been running round in the back of my mind Trying to get in my grind, trying to make me go crazy. I've been spending time trying to work on my finance, work on my progress. Now I'm like maybe I should just say forget it and maybe we could just kick it. I like the way that you frame. So let me get in the picture Trying to get into distance and maybe do something with him. Outro Music Got me. That's right. Whatever you want, maybe you need, I got you, got me, got me. I have just had a full. There was a whole when my other half should go. Can take it fast, can take it slow, as long as I can, let you know that there ain't no games and it's taking a long time. That's what you want and I'll let you know. Delect, I'll let you want. I got you. Got me, got me.
Brook:I could feel the Will Smith vibe.
Zach:Yeah, these are both ones that I wrote to my wife, actually, so they're a little more Not an old girlfriend. They're the softer of the album.
Brook:They're not getting your inner anger out.
Zach:Good nonetheless, this is one of the more popular songs.
Zach:Actually, I was feeling sort of incomplete, looking puzzled, trying to find my other piece. This is one of the more popular songs actually. Thank you. I can tell you that you worthless cause I pick you any day over a hundred grand.
Zach:I think your bitch is perfect. No, I pick you any day over a hundred grand.
Zach:I think your bitch is perfect. No, I pick you any day over a hundred grand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, pick you any day over a hundred grand. I think your bitch is perfect. No, I pick you any day over a hundred grand. I will pick you first. Until the day I'm in a hearse, ain't gotta go out here and search. I know I got what I deserve. I know I give all that I can. I know I wake up and I'm thankful that didn't happen before you came into my life. So thank you.
Zach:Finally found the one, so no more looking no, no, oh yeah.
Zach:Do what I can to be a good man. No, oh, no, no. Keep you safe, so yeah.
Brook:I forgot that word in there, didn't.
Zach:I, oh yeah, I'm going to have to edit a few of those.
Brook:That's pretty good. Yeah, I like it.
Zach:So if anybody is a hip-hop fan they can go look up Spectrum by Otis. That's the full album. But those are my pop-friendly. You know, share songs yeah.
Paul:They're all thing. He goes Otis.
Zach:Otis, yes, okay. Uh, it actually kind of yeah, oh, utis, it means, uh, no one in Greek, uh, and it was what Odysseus called himself to the Cyclops, uh, and it's a whole roundabout thing, but there's, it's been used as a moniker, um, in literature several times, uh, when people have wanted to write something impactful but for whatever reason, like it wouldn't work if it was tied to them. So this would be people like long fellow did this or um.
Zach:Edgar Allen Poe. Like people in that sort of situation. But the idea behind it is like don't worry about the good thing being attributed to you, like just worry about the good thing happening Right. So that's the kind of overarching brand of. Otis so.
Brook:So we have to ask you questions.
Paul:Oh yeah.
Brook:Your random questions.
Zach:We need a name for this segment too. I need to come up with a name for the question segment.
Brook:We're asking questions all the time.
Zach:People are like geeked about this podcast idea, by the way.
Brook:Ours yeah.
Zach:Like every time I tell people about it, they're like oh my God, that's a really good idea. They're like you're going to let me know when that comes out. Right, like that's crazy.
Brook:Good, I'm glad. I probably need to share it with more people, and so so this is our question, our fun question segment Um, you're at a business meeting networking. Um, uh, what are you drinking? Always coffee Always, never a cocktail.
Zach:Uh, I mean, yeah, I guess I'll go in on something like that, but not at night, in the morning.
Brook:Not at night in the morning, okay, so no mimosas for you.
Zach:I have 99% of the time I'm going coffee even if it's an evening kind of thing. I just that's my uh. I listen better when I'm nursing a caffeinated beverage there is something about holding something that helps you think like there's something about like just throughout the day.
Paul:Sip is a uh it's kinesthetic is, you know, something in your hand? You've got a pen.
Brook:Yeah, that's true. All right Person to follow podcast, Instagram, Facebook, Tik TOK.
Zach:Oh man, um, who do I follow? Um? I'll kind of go a weird left turn here and say J Cole, cause J Cole is a hip hop artist and he does not post a whole lot. Oh, actually, no, I'm going to change my answer and cut that out completely, cause I do love J Cole but I've got somebody who's a better like impact.
Zach:There is a hip hop artist named Russ, and Russ created the Russ model Um, and it's like a methodology for releasing music, um, but also kind of tied to like a lifestyle prescription of his Um, and it is an excellent yes, that's Russ. Uh, he is an excellent um do itself kind of person and will get you in that entrepreneurial space and just really like. He talks a lot about having an audacious sense of self I think he calls it or something like that where it's like you have to believe in yourself. If you're going to do incredible things, then you have to believe in yourself to an unrealistic degree, almost Like the people that really break barriers are doing so because they're dreaming so far ahead of everybody else.
Zach:Um and that's his, you know.
Zach:So he couples that with kind of just these, you know different practices to like keep you humble and keep you hustling. Uh, and he's somebody that just like for frame of reference, he did an experiment at one point where he was like I'm going to release a song every week for a year and I think he went on to do that for multiple years in a row actually, but completely different model than people putting out albums and whatever else. He just was like we're in the age of content and each one of these is my little salesperson, so why would I not want more salespeople? Yeah, so, yeah. So he's very interesting for entrepreneurial stuff, not just I agree.
Paul:I'd read the book. I'll listen to it. It's really good.
Brook:You already have? Yeah, okay, it's on my list now. Yeah, his book is definitely interesting.
Zach:I've never heard him, so he's one of the highest grossing streaming artists of all time. Wow, yeah, sorry.
Brook:Yeah, go ahead. How late is fashionably late.
Zach:I don't think I'm You're never late. I'm never more than five minutes late, unless something has like actually really Happened, happened.
Zach:Yeah, I think.
Zach:I, having the ADHD that I have and the time blindness that I have, like I know that if I let go of my calendar or I let go of the schedule during the day, that it's just gone.
Paul:So I don't usually let go of my calendar or I let go of the schedule during the day that it's just gone, so I don't usually let go of it. How about personally? Because that can be the professional piece. You've got to be on time. What about fashionably?
Zach:late. Oh yeah, that's a good question. Personally probably half hour.
Zach:It depends on what we're doing If you make me wait 30 minutes, if we were going to dinner and I'm sitting down 30 minutes before you like, I've got a sour face by the time you get there. But if it's a party, I got a sour face or I'm already eating, you know, and you can just be okay with it. But yeah, what about the party? But yeah, I think a party, that kind of thing, yeah, 30 minutes hour late, that that's, that's, that's the sweet spot right there. So and I'm not a, I'm certainly not the last guy at the party either, so, uh, well, getting there or leaving leaving.
Zach:Like I, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm ready to take a nap pretty quickly. So, unless I'm performing, like I'll, I'll perform a show, or that's kind of how I knew. Naturally, like, like, I would like to be on that side of the stage if I'm going to go to one of these events but biggest pet peeve Showing up late for a meal.
Zach:Biggest pet peeve would be people speaking with authority. That is unwarranted. I think it's important and viable and interesting. And what have you to stipulate and talk about things that you're not completely sure about. But you should do so with an understanding of kind of where you sit in that and know, you know just kind of the basic reasoning of like, hey, I'm saying this thing, but I've not sat down and looked it up or gotten the opinions of other people or, you know, seen what the expert opinion on this is or any of those things. So I think that's a huge pet beeve of mine. I was sitting around a table with a group of people recently and someone brought up climate change and it was just like the merry-go-round, like everybody took their turn stipulating as to what ridiculous non-solution solution was going to be.
Brook:This like quick fix and like, rather than us just sitting with the fact that it sucks and we all need to figure out what to do with it, or you know what is happening or all of the facts behind it, when you're like you're not a scientist or yeah, or just being like yeah, I don't know, or you know, yeah, anything that you can actually like you know back or or is just qualified appropriately, but it was.
Zach:It's just like we all throw these things back and forth. I'm just like I'll probably be living on mars by then. It's just like none of us are going to check that like. So I just kind of I think those uh things are a pet peeve of mine and I feel like I see societally, like how we just let that slide in a lot of spaces and I'm like this kind of feels like why we're having some of the problems that we're having.
Brook:So that's what social media people just put out there like absolutes and like this is the way it is right when it's not, and there's, it's a blind perspective no vetting.
Zach:And yeah, if there is, then you've just looked up whatever things will support on somebody else's thing.
Brook:I'm like this is happening and you're like, yeah, that's what is that called?
Zach:uh, false, whatever truth than I am yeah, something yeah but yeah uh, personal motto just do it elevator um, I would say personal motto is hang in there just a little bit longer you got this, just breathe, that's fine.
Zach:I do think that that's. That's something that, uh, I think has become a mantra of sorts for me and something that seems to become more and more tried and true, even right now with sales. I feel like this month I've had kind of a, you know, a slowing period that I was stressing heavily and trying to figure out how to come out of that and, uh, have been doing the extra work that I think needs to go in there to. You know, see that generate. But in sales, sometimes you have a conversation with somebody and you're not. You may have done all the right things, but it doesn't matter. Until six months down the road, um, and I feel like this, like literally just in the last week, I've had this like almost flood of like, hey, I'm ready, or like, hey, this thing is, you know, let's have the next conversation, or whatever it is.
Zach:So it's like now I'm swamped, so it's never going to come in steady, where it makes it easy. But but it is just that thing of like, you know, you have that, like I was in the thick of that, like am I doing this right? Like what am I? Which piece am I missing to keep the chain moving here? But you know, kind of had that faith of like just hang in there and like don't quit, whatever you do, like just keep pushing towards, whatever the thing is, keep doing your 1%. Right.
Paul:Three foot from gold.
Zach:Have you read the book? No, I don't think so. You said three foot from gold. Three foot from gold. Ah, that makes sense.
Paul:So it was a miner, a guy that worked his whole life and couldn't find gold on this property. He sold the mine and what have you? The person that bought it went and did some geological stuff and find found out where he was digging was three foot from this massive seam.
Paul:that would have made him very wealthy so believable it's uh three foot from grow gold, just keep going. Yeah, you gotta know when to stop, but there's a you know, typically it's you know just when you, when it gets tough, is when you just should keep on going yeah, I think I I have a bit of a perfectionist mindset, which is part of what plays into that whole, like I can't beat myself up about what's already done.
Zach:I have to like cut that off cause I do enough and push into the next thing. But yeah, there's definitely um there's definitely something to that.
Brook:What color do you think of when, when you think of a business owner?
Zach:I think of red pretty instantly.
Brook:Cause're on fire, why red I?
Zach:do think there's an intensity piece to it.
Zach:Um, I just think of red as like bold and strong, uh, and kind of cutting. I think that's like that. Uh, coming from the communications, marketing, public relations kind of background, you learn pretty quickly that red is like the color that cuts through the most. Um, so there are other colors. You know you, you learn different color theory working in marketing and like we're in the financial space obviously, so a lot of times you bring blue and green in to kind of have those soothing tones and purple or you know something that's in that kind of cool color area and, uh, a lot of compliance stuff kind of sits more in the red, yellow, green kind of space, those sorts of things. But I think just that initial lesson of red cuts through, I think that sits with me.
Brook:Those are our questions and you can cut out ones we're not going to talk about that one. We don't have to do six, but I'm going to ask six and then you can cut out which ones you don't. Awesome.
Paul:So what are you learning at the moment? What's your um business wise? What are you reading? Or, uh, trying to get rough up on.
Zach:Um, I think right now I actually need some new content on that front, because I did kind of go through a big uh, I was reading a lot about ADHD, because I have recently, like actually, diagnosed with it and so just learning about all of that and kind of breaking those patterns and stuff A lot of that is more the pseudoscientific, admittedly, like following.
Zach:There's like an ADHD couple on TikTok that they have like kind of different presentations of ADHD, that they have like kind of different presentations of ADHD. So they're constantly like doing things for each other to kind of offset that and make them both like the most healthy, functioning person that they can. But they kind of show examples from their life and then do these kinds of informational things that teach you about an ADHD term or you know kind of how to prevent yourself from struggling with something like time blindness or you know one of these other um kind of things. Um, so that I think I'm I've processed a lot of that lately and now I'm getting into um and I think I told you about this in a text message at one point like just everything consistency based.
Zach:I know that naturally I'm going to have cycles and that I do have a preexisting cycle of like super hot streak, like very consistent with everything. I burn myself out and I get depressed. Productivity goes down. That turns into its own downward cycle. I have to separate from the judgment of it. I get pulled out of that cycle. I figure out, like, how to get back to square one, and then I keep running with it.
Zach:So, instead of trying to magically wake up and be a new person. I'm now in the like, going through the math in my head of like, what's the next measurable step of shortening that cycle or reducing the impact of that cycle? Or you know what's? What's the 1% look like and how do I hold myself accountable to that, while not, you know, beating myself to death if, if I'm not measuring up in in one way or another?
Paul:Um and just you know, accepting that there's always going to be room for improvement on that side.
Zach:So, yeah, who's your greatest influence? Who is my greatest influence? Um, personally, I would say probably my stepfather. Um, personally, I would say probably my stepfather. I think my stepfather came along when I was very young and took on a very, very consistent, healthy mentor role. Amazing job of occupying this kind of weird tandem space of like friend and father figure. That, uh, didn't ever really like, you know, challenge my biological father's place or, you know, like, create drama in my life in any kind of way. He always, like, was committed to never saying a sideways word about my father and facilitating anytime he wanted to see me and those kinds of things. So I think that mirrors your triangulation.
Zach:Yes, yes, absolutely, um.
Zach:But yeah, I think that's somebody on a personal level that has pretty much always come through when I've seen him need to come through.
Zach:Uh, and he also, like, I had a point in college where I was kind of doing the same stuff and trying new things and figuring things out, but I didn't have the same like feeling that that was okay, um, and I kept kind of quitting on things and he was the one that came to me and was just like you got to finish something and he was like it doesn't.
Zach:He's like you know you can do any of these things. I know you can do any of those things, but the more you second guess, the more you're going to get that ingrained of like finding the reason not to finish the thing, uh, finding the reason you're too good for it, or finding the reason that you know there's some hurdle in the distant future, so you're not even going to try, or whatever it is. So, um, and this was in the context of uh school at the time, um, and he was just like you gotta go and finish it because you said you were going to and that's just know. I think that's something that you need to hold true to yourself is that when you say something, you're going to do it. And he was right.
Zach:and uh, ever since then it has been more of an intentional journey of experiencing what I want to experience and trying to build out the person that I want to be, rather than, uh, running from who I don't want to be, which is a tricky distinction to make, at that at that age in particular.
Paul:So that's good Like it.
Brook:I like interviewing Zach. A lot of things yeah, so we're always so goddamn busy yeah.
Brook:I know you've done music for a while, but I've never listened to it, so but yeah, you, you have some pretty good insight of sorts and your journey has, um, it maybe is not the journey of a business owner, but you have the perspective of it and, um, you've had to own your own pieces of things and it's it's a really cool perspective to have. Is is your journey in owning your own life and and deciding which way you want to go with it and growing as you're working through things.
Zach:And I would argue that I do. You know that I am an entrepreneur of sorts who early on had the conversation that we have with business owners of what's really important here and in the creative space. A lot of that had nothing to do with money or exposure. So if at some point those goals change, you know any of those things like I do think you know, I would agree with you that, like, my mindset is that of a business owner and in what we do I don't think that I can do my job as well, if I don't consider my company you know, whatever that level is.
Zach:Well, thanks for sharing, Zach. Yes, thank you.
Brook:And now the music that should be the final later. Yes, thank you. And now the music which we will find later. Thank you.
