The Owner's Odyssey
The Owner's Odyssey is a business podcast focused on exploring the unique journeys of real business owners co-hosted by Brook Gratia, Paul McCoy, and Zach Jones.
The Owner's Odyssey
Angela Parker's Road to Mission-Driven Success
What if you could transform your personal values into a thriving business that makes a genuine social impact? Angela Parker, co-founder of Realized Worth, joins us to share her inspiring entrepreneurial story. From starting in a small church environment to partnering with corporate giants like Microsoft, Angela's journey is a testament to the power of aligning passion with purpose. Through her experiences, Angela highlights the importance of creating a culture that prioritizes social good, and she reveals the pivotal moments and decisions that shaped her path, offering invaluable insights for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Angela's narrative is rich with lessons on the complexities of leadership and the art of trusting one's instincts in business growth. Despite the challenges of transitioning from a small cleaning business to launching Realized Worth, Angela emphasizes the crucial role of intuition in navigating the unpredictable world of entrepreneurship. She shares her personal reflections on the emotional challenges of growing her business, and how these experiences have shaped her unique approach to integrating corporate social responsibility into business strategy.
Our conversation also delves into the emotional journey of maintaining passion amidst challenges and the transformative power of self-compassion. Angela candidly discusses her struggles with identity tied to business success, the impact of setbacks, and the resilience needed to overcome them. Through personal anecdotes and techniques like journaling, Angela offers a roadmap for leaders to nurture their mindset and navigate the pressures of leading a mission-oriented company. Join us for a compelling discussion filled with insights, inspiration, and the wisdom to transform your own entrepreneurial journey.
Hello and welcome to the Owner's Odyssey, the podcast where we delve deep into the transformative stories of courageous business owners who have embarked on an extraordinary adventure. I'm Zach Jones and I'm Brooke Gattia. We're here to explore the real life experiences of entrepreneurs.
Speaker 3:Each episode, we'll embark on a quest to uncover the trials, triumphs and transformations of remarkable individuals who dared to answer the call of entrepreneurship.
Speaker 2:Like all adventurers, our guests have faced their fair share of challenges, vanquished formidable foes and braved the unknown.
Speaker 3:Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a seasoned business owner or simply an avid listener hungry for captivating stories.
Speaker 2:The Owner's Odyssey is here to help you level up. So join us as we embark on this epic expedition. This is the Owner's Odyssey. Let's start our adventure.
Speaker 3:Today we are meeting with Angela Parker with Realized Worth. Realized Worth is a company that works with for-profit larger companies such as Microsoft and have thousands of people and help them develop corporate social responsibility programs. So helping them volunteer, helping them be philanthropic, how to create really good cultures within their companies. And so it was a great conversation and I think you will enjoy tuning in and hearing about how she has struggled with the creating a culture and bringing a certain amount of set of values into her business and how to cultivate that and how to get over her mental blocks to creating that space in her company. So I met you, oh, 25 years ago.
Speaker 4:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:Something really long ago you were working in a church and life was changing and I don't even there's lots of stories to all of that side of things. But somewhere around that time you started branching out and started a business called Realized Worth and I think I've been with you the whole process, like as far as just I've known you through all of that side of things. Realized Worth is a really cool and I'm gonna butcher horribly what it is that you do, onopsis of it. You help the big companies encourage their people to be corporately responsible and so, without the big terminology of corporate responsibility and what that is of engaging, kind of philanthropic engaging in volunteer, engaging well in the community around them, and how do businesses encourage their people to do that? And I always thought that was the coolest business topic just to be like both a business that is for profit but doing a thing that is really good for the community and kind of where that that space is.
Speaker 3:And so I have and Angela is a very call her. She kind of has a gypsiness to her, so she's super like, intuitive to things, very gracious and kind and encouraging, but has this uniqueness to who she is that it draws me in. I'm totally engaged often with who you are and kind of your vision and your drive and how you care for people. So I'm not really sure how that relates to a gypsy, but you just kind of do your own beat Anyhow. So I asked that you'd come in and kind of share with us a little bit of what has been your journey. How did you decide to do this as a business? What got you from a church to doing this for-profit thing? Yeah, what's your journey in that side of things?
Speaker 4:Oh, thanks for asking, brooke. It's always fun to talk to people who have been here the whole time. I believe you've been my accountant since the very beginning and my friend since before that. So it is quite a thing to reminisce with people who've been on the journey. And when you were sharing, you know saying here's kind of the elevator, and when you were sharing, you know saying here's kind of the elevator pitch of what the business is, I kind of internally laughed because I was just at a conference last week with all people that do my kind of work and somebody got on stage and said do any of your grandparents understand what you do? And everybody just burst out laughing because it is one of those things that you try to explain. And you know, with each new generation, people understand a little more and now we have a generation of people coming into the work world that are actually educated in what we now refer to as corporate social impact, which is annoying because I'm like, ok, talk to me in 10 years, when you've experienced how difficult this industry is, it's good and you feel like you're going to be able to do good. And then you spend a lot of time feeling like you might feel if you work in a nonprofit, where you are under-resourced, under-supported, not well-understood and always fighting for something that you thought you believed in but can't quite get to. So we can talk more about what that looks like in practice, but it is technically that the elevator phrase is we design and implement corporate volunteering programs that are scalable, measurable and meaningful. Those are the three things that companies are always looking for in this space. And now I know that, after a long journey, it's been 16 years this year. I think we were founded in 2008.
Speaker 4:Um, and, as Brooke said, we my co chris jarvis, and I both came from the church and non-profit world and I think maybe, like many of us, we experienced a dissidence, dissonance in in the space we were in, in the belief system we existed within and wanted to find a way to, to, to, to find resonance to, to find what is the thing that feels not quite right about this space but that we still believe in and that we want to take forward in our careers, in our lives in a way that can direct us, can feel, you know, a sense of meaning. People want to bring their whole self to work. That whole whole thing. Chris Jarvis and I both really, really wanted that.
Speaker 4:For me personally, I grew up in Portland Oregon in the 90s, like Hole and Nirvana were my bands, like I was never gonna work for the man, so so so resolving that that dissonance was a was was definitely not what I expected to move toward the business world. But the dissonance is where it started and I can tell a little bit more of that story if you want me to go that direction.
Speaker 3:Yeah, do whatever your journey is. We're just going to organically flow. I can be a gypsy too, so that's my statement we can organically flow.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, there are a lot of you know Um, well, there, there, there's there, there are a lot of you know a lot of the sort of personal details that I think are important. I won't get deep into it now, but for anyone who listens to your podcast, I think there's this idea that we want to separate um work from our personal lives, and I understand what people mean by that. They mean leave your work at home and spend time with your family. Let it go. Don't let that stress guide everything you do in your personal lives. But I think there's something about us, and probably the reason that we even use that phrase is because we know that it is connected. We know that we want to care about the thing we spend all day doing. We know that it would be so great to live a life that felt integrated somehow, even with a healthy separation between being able to go out and play yeah yeah, yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 4:So my, my personal life, my, my, my divorce, my experience of growing up in a in a household that was very patriarchal, my understanding that women women can lead but only if they lead children. And then, eventually, looking at the nonprofit space that I was in, the church space, and thinking probably what a lot of people think, which is wouldn't it be great to be well-resourced and make a decent salary and to work in the space where the influence lives, like corporations, where the influence lives Like corporations we know all day, eight hours a day, if not more, are influencing the lives and the decisions of hundreds of thousands of people in this country, hundreds of thousands, millions, and then around the world. It's just, it's wild. So that's where influence lives. So my little Portland hippie heart started to move toward what if I did want to work in business? Who am I betraying? What terrible things am I saying about who I am and what I believe in? And then I left what I was in and it was catastrophic. I left my marriage, I left the work that I was in, I left working in the church, all the things that I had built my whole life up to say this is what I believe in and moved away from that and just did what people do when they start over and just figured out how to make a living Early on as you know, brooke, that was cleaning houses. That's what I knew how to do. I had done that in college and I was like I got to make a living but I can't get into a job that's going to keep me in it. I got to stay in something that I want to get out of.
Speaker 4:While I think about where this is all going, what am I doing? Cleaned houses and actually found so much joy in building that up as a little tiny business and having clients that I got to decide how I wanted to please them not just doing the work, building relationship and thinking about what it would be like to train people up in the cleaning business and give them a great experience and then started to feel what it was to like, feel this deep satisfaction in creating a tiny little culture in my own little work world, and I think that, without me being really conscious of it, led to going. Oh yeah, I think I. I think I like this business thing Like this is. This is cool and maybe there's a whole different way to do it, not different from every other company. My approach to business isn't new, but there are. But it's hard to keep it going. It's hard to keep building a culture that people want to be in.
Speaker 4:So, at the same time, chris Jarvis was working on what if we could build, we being him, being himself and like the world. He wasn't thinking about us co-founding anything at the time, but he was thinking what? What would it be like to create something where nonprofits could get the kind of volunteers that they want without wasting a lot of time on volunteers? Because nonprofits do folks, nonprofits waste so much time on volunteers that they hope will turn into something good. And yeah, we could do a whole, we could do the whole conversation on just that. And and so he started writing about this, working through this. He he was meeting with people and he met with this nonprofit in Toronto and he was like I want to consult with you and help build this system which he had built in previous places. That will get you the kind of volunteers that you need long-term, these advocates for your organization. They were like that's great, we can't afford a consultant. And he was like, oh right, right, right, right. Yeah, you're not right, that's of course.
Speaker 4:But they did say and this was like 2007, they did say but we have these companies coming to us all the time saying can you, you know, like this Thursday-ish let us bring in a whole bunch of executives because they'll be here from out of town and they want, you know, they want a meaningful experience and they want to get their hands dirty, but like not too dirty because they'll be in suits and they want to. You know, they want to have a sense of purpose that they associate with their company, but like not purpose, that creeps them out. So like, can you find a balance for us, volunteer opportunity, and also, can you make sure there's a barbecue and a photo op? Can you do all that by Thursday? And the nonprofit's like, yes, because maybe a check will come with that. So that was when they actually said can you work with those companies to come to us as partners?
Speaker 4:So that started Chris off in that world while I'm over here trying to figure my life out.
Speaker 4:And then eventually, we had conversations where we're like, oh, trying to figure my life out.
Speaker 4:And then eventually we had conversations where we're like, oh, this is the thing that brings it all together, this is the thing where we can infiltrate the system, the system where influence lives and start working with people to bring them into the nonprofit world from companies, connect them with meaning, but not just and I mean specifically not going into these organizations saying we're going to do it our way, we're going to be the white saviors coming in to make you like us. We're going to come into your space and learn and become different ourselves. We're going to become the best versions of ourselves through this experience. So that was when you know a lot of what I was learning and building. This tiny little cleaning business moved into motivation to actually go to business school, which moved into this, this approach, this consulting approach that we now do with companies. Now there's a. You know, as you know, having built multiple businesses yourself, what you start with is a version of what you have 15 years later, but it, it's, it's adorable, it's adorable to look back to that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. So so you know, we've now now we have just 20 employees and we built up quite a quite a consulting business with some really meaningful company like big, big names who are really into this that we've been able to build this approach up with.
Speaker 3:So at what point in time did you figure out that that approach could make money? Was it that conversation that you had with them, or was it a different point where you're like, oh, there's where the like monetary side of that piece comes into play?
Speaker 4:Honestly, brooke, if I had gone to business school first, I would never have done this, because I don't think it would have ever made sense. I don't think anyone would have sat down with us and been like this will make money. They would have said isn't volunteering free? Yeah, and we? And that's what we've heard from so many people.
Speaker 4:I think, um, the thing we've had to do what people have to do internally at companies to what corporate social responsibility or social impact teams have to do, which is here's how this strategically aligns with where you want to go as a business.
Speaker 4:So we had to sort of create this framework around this one little piece, which is people can become better humans by going out into the community and experiencing the things that we don't experience in our day-to-day lives. That's the core. Like that's what we, this business, exists for. But around that there is if you're going to have a business initiative, if you're going to have a department within your company, it has to align strategically with everything else you're trying to do and it has to be as legitimate as any other business initiative. So that part has to be as legitimate as any other business initiative. So that part, somehow we at least understood that, chris, as a very strategically minded person, luckily. So we were able to bring that angle into businesses as we did this. We would do these design workshops with, say, 12 of their team members, and they would feel inspired enough, but also like they had strategic language to take forward. So those two things together, the emotion that they wanted, along with the strategy that they could pitch to senior leaders, I think was what worked.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you figured out how to get the businesses to see that it not only helps their people, it helps their businesses reputation, which ultimately helps their business as a whole. And that's a that's not a direct correlation. Like I can sit down and go. If you do this tactic, you save this much in taxes. You're sitting there and going. Okay, if you do this tactic, it's going to have this PR move that's going to happen and and that's a hard, that's a harder sell it's a ton of making sure you're aligning with people and what it sounds like is that you found that niche of language. You found that niche of purpose that aligned with some of these bigger companies where their mission and they see that value. I guess, if that makes sense, and that's kind of cool.
Speaker 3:So how was it for you saying okay, I'm done doing cleaning, I'm going to jump to this. What was that feeling for you? Was it methodical and you're like okay, we're making enough money? Was it all right? Hail Mary, I'm just going to jump because they need our time? Like what was that jump for you to say I'm releasing this safety net and going to jump full-time into this?
Speaker 4:That is well. It's funny that you said what was the feeling, because it was again don't take this to business school but it was a feeling. It was not a number and it should have been a number. But yeah, I literally see myself upstairs. I called it my Friday morning house Best couple ever. I still think of them and wonder how their little babies are doing that lived in the house while I was cleaning it. They also had just everything was meticulously organized. I still try to make my own house like theirs. I'm upstairs, I'm making a bed on Friday morning and I'm thinking we have these two clients.
Speaker 4:Our first two big clients were Forrester's Insurance in Toronto and AstraZeneca, who has remained a client over the years, and we had them and it was picking up and it was starting to get stressful that I wasn't able to dedicate all my time. Chris was also working in a restaurant at the time, sometimes helping clean houses. I was working in a restaurant on the weekends. It was like a lot and I thought we kind of made friends with the owner of the restaurant we were working at and he he's a good guy and he'd sold a lot of businesses and I thought it feels like everything. Like my gut is saying now's the time, like right, now is the time, and I and I thought I had this rush of like oh, I can talk to Ted and he can help me sell this little baby cleaning business and that might be the bridge. We need to just get far enough into a couple more clients or enough to keep going, and finished that house called Chris. I'm like I think it's time. He's like all right, let's meet with Ted, met with Ted, ted helped us sell it and then actually we moved back to the US.
Speaker 4:At that point to really establish the business in the US. We knew that it was smart to get going in Canada there's a different type of receptiveness with Canadian clients but we knew that to really build and scale it needed to be a US-based company. So now we have a US-based company that owns the Canadian company. But it was like, now that we're starting to pick up, let's go, let's go back. So we went back and had that tiny I mean it was a tiny little baby bridge that that cleaning business sale got us. But that that was it. That was enough. And then it felt desperate enough to we had to focus and pick it up and make sure we understood exactly what we were selling and who we were selling to. It was still scary. It's still really scary Sometimes you need that like.
Speaker 3:Okay, like I. I just have to cut the reins to really like jump all in.
Speaker 3:So do you feel like this is just um, this is a gut question here on this side? Do you feel like many of your decisions as I mean, you've gone now to business school you've been told how you're supposed to think as a business person, which that's educational business, that's not always practical business, it's both good and bad. But do you feel like you have made many of your decisions as a business owner more by gut or by like factual side of things?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean 100% by gut, and it is not what I recommend.
Speaker 3:But why is it not that what you recommend? Do you feel like you failed at that decision? I think.
Speaker 4:I can't believe it's working. Like, like I and I mean I was 26 when I founded Relishworth I didn't need, I didn't need things to be together. I didn't have kids, I didn't have a mortgage and nothing I had a. I had school loans to pay and I like just finished paying them off. I paid them real slow, um, so I think it's harder that you know, the more established you get, the more comfortable you get, and I know a lot of people do this.
Speaker 4:They're like I just want to get a few things under me and then I'll start a business that that would never have worked for me. I would have, you know, I would have. I would have told myself why what I have is fine and what I, and I would even tell myself that that some somehow justified to myself that that's actually what I want, because, because everything was such a mess I didn't, I didn't have anything and things were rough in my life, having got, having gotten divorced, having dealing with all of that, it just felt like there was nothing to lose. And I think the nothing to lose feeling is a wonderful feeling for an entrepreneur, like you'll just do anything, you'll try anything and you'll be naive, and that's okay because there's nothing to lose. And the more you get established, like now, I'm terrified of if things go wrong, if things don't work Terrified.
Speaker 3:I have to like talk about that in therapy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it's like my whole identity now is it's not healthy, but it is. I'm completely attached to the business. So, yeah, so it was. Every decision was made by gut, for sure.
Speaker 3:Is it still going this?
Speaker 4:direction? Absolutely not. Okay, some things are, but we have now we have my gut. Back then said hire people who you know will make better decisions than you, and thank God for that, because that is that has been the best thing I've ever done, is ever done. Absolutely. Hands down is hire the right people and they tell me they're working hard now to move the way decisions are made, away from being founder based, because they know my dream is to scale. I don't want to be a lifestyle company. They know that to do that they have to wrestle things out of my hands and they're doing it and they're good at it and so no, not anymore.
Speaker 3:I still bring gut decisions to them, but they help me. When did it switch? Was it when you hired those people that you switched from gut to what's factual, or, uh, I don't think it has switched.
Speaker 4:For me, actually, that's a good, that's a great way to say it. I think it we operate differently because of the team. I'm still a gut person, I probably always will be, and actually I think that is still an asset. Um, if I moved, I, I, um, I think a lot of business owners, and maybe women especially, feel compelled to be logical because we sure know that emotional is not going to be respected. But I'm learning more and more to lean into, to know that I am a whole person, not just a head. So to lean into that gut and then trust my team to do the work of making sure that it makes sense, that it's going to drive us forward, figure out the timing, which feels very selfish.
Speaker 4:I feel like I need to do all the background work bring all the numbers, bring the spreadsheets, bring the logic, bring the business plan, bring the case. And the more certain I am about something actually, the less likely it is to be right, the more gut feeling I bring to it. That feels like guys, there's something here. They're like OK, we'll figure it out. I bring it certain like, bring a hard, concrete block to them. They're like knock, knock, knock. I don't know, it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:So you're setting the vision.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that is the right way to say it Exactly, and that's what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I also wonder and this is me. I often give my intuition a discredit because I can't put the framework around it, and I've learned this from other people in my life. But the intuition there is actually a framework that happens Like there's little, like you watch someone and you're talking to them and you have this intuition. They're not really getting it and or there's some. What reality is?
Speaker 3:Your brain is picking up on small facial expressions or small little things that are happening that you're not cognitively going. Oh, it was this distinct thing that happened. Your subconscious picked up on these small like. So you are methodically working through something. You are, your gut is seeing something, even if you can't verbalize it and put it into a headspace.
Speaker 3:There is something in your soul, there is something in the subconscious that is picking up on the cues that say, okay, and if it's nothing more than my own head space of like, okay, I can no longer juggle these different things or like you picking up on all right, this needs to be the vision, and I don't know why, because there's just subtle things, and if I told you what they were, because I could verbalize them, you'd look at me and say that's silly, like, but I no, I just I gotta like you're not talking fully but you're giving me these subtle hints that are telling me that, and to me that's the gut and that's the intuition that I don't know how to verbalize.
Speaker 3:And I mean it's like interviewing too, like I interview people or like something, and I have a gut that says, oh, there was something off on that, but I don't lean into it because I can't judge that like for someone, and so then I ignore it and hands out all the time my ignoring of that it was dumb, like I should have totally picked up on, like the subtleties, the hints. And so I think it's really healthy for a owner to be able to pause and pay attention to their gut and kind of walk through that, that space of things.
Speaker 4:But do you feel like? Oh sorry.
Speaker 5:I was going to say do you feel like having put that infrastructure in place for yourself and now having the team around you to kind of filter through ideas? Has that put you more in tune with your vision and you know kind of the gut sense of direction that you're looking for? Or do you, are you in a process of like struggling to be away from the details, cause I know that is also kind of part of you know the owner's journey that we hear about a lot. It's kind of you know, when you give up seeing every piece of the nitty gritty, um, you know you start to feel like you're losing touch or feel, you know, like there are things that you're missing or blindsided by. So I was just curious what your experience has been with that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. I mean I feel the less I know the details and the less I'm speaking into them, I actually feel like I'm doing a bad job. You know like I feel like, so it's like some sort of the pendulum swings and sometimes I'm really good over here on the vision. My CFO who's amazing always says we need you swimming out ahead, not back at the dock, like helping people put their floaties on. But when I'm back at the dock, I feel like I'm doing things, I feel like I'm helping and that people are like thanks, angela, you're such a good leader. And they're like get out of my way. That's actually what they're saying. They're like please, I know how to put my floaties on. And they're like but I don't know where to go. So please can you just swim. And I'm like, yeah, but if I'm just swimming, it's just fun, I'm just having a great time, it's so selfish. And they're like yes, just go.
Speaker 4:But that is sometimes. I know that some days I feel clear on that and actually this. I'm feeling so grateful for this conversation right now because it's conversations like this that remind me like really clearly set me on that path. I'm like right, okay, so today I feel pretty confident that I'm going to go swim ahead, but I'm going to get less confident about the fact that I can't necessarily see. I'm not watching anyone, you know I'm not. There's no one for me to swim toward, so sometimes I go backwards.
Speaker 4:How do you make sure they're following you? They got their swimmies on.
Speaker 3:How do you make sure they're following you? They got their swimmies on. How do you make sure they're following your vision instead of going the current whatever? I'm really bad at analogies.
Speaker 1:I love it, the rich-eyed thing that takes them to the side.
Speaker 3:The other thing over there.
Speaker 5:Something about salmon.
Speaker 4:Salmon. That's great. Um, um, I, we do have a ton of internal systems and processes and things like. We have quite a structure internally. That gives me pretty good indicators of how things are going. Um, we are maybe to uh, to a very, very hard-working culture. Um, we have a meeting structure that's every day the same for all the teams. We have management meetings, we have kps, you know all the things you're supposed to have.
Speaker 4:But like not just to track our performance but to track whether or not, culturally, we're moving in the right direction, because in part of our, our purpose is that in or maybe not. Purpose isn't quite the right way to say it. It's more like, I guess an indicator of whether or not we're doing the right work externally is if things are going right internally and our internal cultural needs to be a reflection of what we're trying to build in companies. So if we see internally that there's toxicity or that there's people just not caring about the quality of their work, which is fine Actually, I think it's kind of fine in a lot of companies, but not in this type of company. We're a mission-oriented work. You have to. Am I allowed to swear on this podcast?
Speaker 4:I'm fine with it, Okay, you have to give a shit Like if you don't. And we have like like, give a shit. Indicators. So those things really helped me. And and again, talking about them right now is reminding me like yeah, Angela, you don't have to be in the details, because the details are telling you whether or not.
Speaker 3:Things are on track. That's fine. My next question was like why do you feel the need to go back and help put them put on the swimmies If you have all of those things to tell you that they don't know how to put on the swimmies?
Speaker 4:Yeah, such a good question, and one of the most annoying things about my business coach is that she always brings it back to me. I'm like I have this problem with this person. I need to give them some feedback. This thing is happening. And she's like okay, so let's talk about why that's frustrating you so much. I'm like, no, give them feedback. And she's like, okay, and first. And it's so frustrating that every time she's like she'll help me identify.
Speaker 4:Like, let's say, I'm feeling really insecure about how I'm contributing, so I default back to these old ways that that used to be the right way and that used to get me affirmation and recognition, and those were the ways. Those are the things I feel started to feel so great about. But as soon as you're great at it, because you're great at it, you don't have to do it anymore. That's the whole point. You move to the next thing, and I think it's part of the danger of a founder led company too, because I will get to well, I mean, probably I guess I could keep trying to upscale myself, but I will probably get to the point that I can't lead this company anymore because it moves beyond my skill level and that is scary.
Speaker 4:So going back to where I'm like, oh, this feels so safe and secure, I'm doing great, is just a weird thing that I need for me. So that's why she always brings me back to like what's happening in you, because what you don't want to do is default back over there. Where, why would you give feedback to someone who has a manager? Talk to their man? You know, it's just something very simple, like that. It shouldn't. It shouldn't like follow the system, follow the thing that's already been put in place.
Speaker 3:So if you enjoy doing the work that you know and yet you don't want to be a lifestyle business like, why is it that you want to be something bigger than yourself, If something bigger than yourself kind of freaks you out? Oh gosh, that's a great question.
Speaker 4:Sorry, I like being freaked out. I need to feel like I'm jumping off a cliff, but also so you're an adrenaline junkie, I guess.
Speaker 3:so Not really, that's not something.
Speaker 4:I think of you about. No, it's more like one of my core values is change. Okay, so I need things I need to change. I need things to change. I need things to not feel steady, static and boring. Okay, yes, I'll bring that one up in therapy this week. I hear how that sounds. I hear how that sounds. But as we've built the business, the thing that.
Speaker 4:I've learned and started to see back with the cleaning business is, I love the most, building a culture. I love the most, creating a business that can be duplicated. So we talk about it as a transformative workplace and transformative volunteering is what we do with companies is based on transformative learning theory. It's not. It's not. It's not meant to be synonymous with like meaningful. It's. It's a. It's a very specific set of learning behaviors and where we, we are a learning culture.
Speaker 4:Everyone that works here is obsessed with learning, and I want to put the structures together in a way that, as we scale, other companies can do the same thing, and it's one of the things that motivates me is proving to people that things can be done that they didn't believe in. Again, that comes from somewhere for sure, but I want to prove to companies that it's possible to have a culture where people give a shit and to have a culture where people feel like, yes, this is who. Years or six months can say who I became. In my experience, there is something I will never let go of. I'm so grateful. That kind of thing. Yeah, so that's the build, but that the way the team. Yeah, go ahead, sorry, go ahead. Well, I was just going to say, the way the team pushes me forward is is helping me take the next challenge of building that culture.
Speaker 3:So what has been the hardest challenge of building that culture?
Speaker 4:So what has been the?
Speaker 3:hardest part of creating the culture you want Just people. What about them? Is it the like getting them to change? Is it the like I hired the wrong person, I got to get rid of them? Is it finding the people?
Speaker 4:Like what is it about that? It's probably the same thing we've been talking about. That it can't depend on me. I want to acknowledge what you said at the very beginning of this conversation. There is an experience that I know I can create for people where they feel seen and heard. That is something I've learned, for whatever reason in my life, and I can't do it for 20 people and I can't do it for more than 20. So it's got to be something where I understand that this is not a gift that I own for myself that many, many, many people are able to create space where others feel seen and heard.
Speaker 4:So, yes, it's about hiring those people to be leaders within the company and to make sure that I have the space and myself to focus on those people those four managers I have right now that are guiding everybody else. They need to be my whole world. But what I'm not good at is teaching them how to make people feel seen and heard, so they just have to have that in them. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to teach it. I've never been good at it, but I can spend time with them and just let them see how it feels so that they can create that for others.
Speaker 4:And I'm giving myself advice right now because, again, it doesn't feel that clear on a day-to-day basis. It just feels like it almost feels like I'm looking for problems to solve, because I love solving problems, instead of just focusing on on those four people and then more people as we grow and letting them do it their way, which isn't necessarily how I would do it. That's maybe the hardest part is seeing them make decisions or interact with people in a way that I'm like, wow, what, why did you do it that way? But it's fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:What's next for you? I see a day when, maybe like the day that I was making the bed in the Friday morning house, I will think, okay, I'm not CEO of this company anymore. Like, let's, let's move forward, and and and and. Then I don't know what it'll be from from there, but I look forward to a day that I can step back and almost in a way that no one really notices.
Speaker 3:Do you have a plan, Like do you have people aligned in your brain you don't have to say that them out loud, Um but like do you have this like what's the succession plan? That's the word, sort of thing, Exit strategy. Yeah, those technical account um businessy phrases. Do you have that prepared? Or is this one of these gut things where you're like this is where I'm going. I'm not really sure how I'm going to get there, but we're just going to keep stepping until the path becomes clear. Which, where are?
Speaker 4:you, it's more of the second one right now. I'm always surprised how things change Right now. I would love if my current four managers took over the company someday. Like five years, three years, it doesn't matter how long it is. To me it could be ten, it could be more. When I see small companies with the same CEO for like 20 years, I do tend to think, really, and I've been CEO for what? Six, seven years? Really, it's more than that, it's 2016.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:Have you looked into franchising it's more than six years.
Speaker 3:But okay, yeah, 2016, though Sorry Okay, yes, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 4:I'm the one who can't. Franchising is an interesting idea, um, we've looked at. There's a lot of independent consultants that do this work. Now I'm I, there's a. There are. There's a lot there that I don't know how to manage yet licensing, um, but I love that idea. There's a?
Speaker 1:um. I was at a presentation a couple of weeks back and the wild birds guy. Oh yeah, he is fantastic. He presented, he built his business to tens of millions and you know it was off the back of just simple. You know organic growth Okay.
Speaker 4:I'm going to look into that.
Speaker 1:That was really, really good and, if you need to, I can get you connected with him. He had a board of advisors. He still uses them, because it sounds like you don't want to grow to a bigger company, but you still want to grow. So this is a way of expanding and going sideways.
Speaker 4:I love that and we've also and this is applicable to what you're saying we have two other business lines now that aren't consulting Cause like you're saying. I think implying in what you're saying is also that consulting is really really hard to scale. Um, and that became clear in the last few years and even the way that I'm like I it, it is such a weight on me how hard my consulting team works Like it is so stressful and I did that work for a really long time so I have such empathy for them. So we have two other lines of business now.
Speaker 4:One is we do these big trainings that we call RW Experiences and then we built a technology platform that is essentially self-serve consulting, where we put everything that we do into frameworks and how-to guides and templates that companies can use and subscribe. So you know obviously that one's a nicely scalable one that companies can use and subscribe. So you know obviously that one's a nicely scalable one Once we fix the glitches. It's only in its second year, but I look forward to that one potentially even being something that we can grow to the point that it's very useful for others in the space. We don't do, for example, sustainability, but if we could support sustainability experts by having their templates and how-to guides on the platform and then that can lead into more consulting for them and potentially do that for all the topics within social impact. That would be pretty cool.
Speaker 1:How has it changed through the generations as generational? You've got millennials coming in you're probably one Then you've got Generation Z or Zed, whatever it is, and then alphas coming in. How are you seeing the corporate responsibility changing?
Speaker 4:I wish there was more of a pattern that I believed in there. I it doesn't. It doesn't what. What I, what we actually see out, see in our work anyway, playing out in patterns and I think it's probably quite different in other areas of work um is when people move into positions of power, whatever generation they're from, their behaviors change, Um, the things they care about change. When people come in from university or from a new certification, whatever generation they're from, they come in with idealism and hope, and when and when people uh find purpose in their work and they feel like they're seen and heard, they do a really good job at their work. I think the things that millennials or gen z or gen whatever, say out loud is different than what boomers felt like they were allowed to say out loud, but I think humans are humans.
Speaker 3:Okay, so do you feel like your passion is still there for everything you've built, or do you feel at all that it's started to fade, as you've been CEO for six?
Speaker 1:years.
Speaker 3:Or all of the dynamics you're trying to figure out, and you have to swim forward Like do you still? Do you struggle with finding that vision and that passion, or do you feel like it's still there? You just got to turn around and look at it.
Speaker 4:The only thing that fades is my I wouldn't assume this was such a cheesy phrase but my belief in myself. Like when I start to feel like I stuck at it, then it's like the passion fades.
Speaker 3:Is there something that triggers your? I suck at that most.
Speaker 4:I'm so attached, my identity is so attached to the success of the business, like last year was a really bad year. It's really hard on so many levels, really bad Like financially people-wise.
Speaker 4:Financially people-wise, I had to let so many levels really bad Like financially people-wise. Financially people-wise, I had to let so many people go Big investments into big hires that didn't work, that I made big promises about. There was a moment toward the beginning of the year when I sat down with one of my very trusted team members and, in tears, said tell me, I can do this. And we sat there and got ourselves all riled up, believed we could do it, just everything was going to work out. And I also said I don't know if I said it, but there were like three things. I'm like these are the three things that I just need these three things to go well, I don't need the whole world to work out, just these three things.
Speaker 4:Then at the end of the year, I was in some reflection session and the person said what do you feel proud of this year? And I was like nothing, cause those three things all failed massively nothing. And luckily, they then responded it was someone who's very neurodivergent and direct and I needed it so much. And they said and and is it okay? And I was like oh, actually yeah. And they were like and are you okay? I'm like actually yeah. And they were like and are you okay? I'm like yeah, I'm okay. So that set me. Yeah, that that's it.
Speaker 3:It's like okay, let's keep going do you feel like you're still in that headspace or this year's been?
Speaker 4:amazing. This year nothing's really changed. So that's the thing. I swear it was that conversation, that person. Nothing's really changed. I mean, things are, things are. We've had some exciting moments. Financially, we had our first corporate event, which went beautifully, like confusingly beautifully. I can't find anything to criticize about it. This morning I was like maybe it didn't go as well as I thought two weeks ago, like maybe something was wrong, maybe people are talking badly about it and I'm like what are you doing? It was great. Even the feedback was like. The worst feedback was it could have been longer. So there's amazing things happening for sure, but but fundamentally, nothing has changed. It's it's been a mindset shift and I'm and. So this year, I'm so excited.
Speaker 3:Do for your mindset shift. Like I journal or I have to read books, Like it helps me shift out. What is there something you do or is?
Speaker 4:it just the cheesiest thing ever. My team member gave me this last year as a secret Santa gift. Angela's words I write myself letters. It's amazing. It's amazing. My coach originally encouraged me to do it. She's amazing too. It's like it has been quite life-changing.
Speaker 3:Huh, like as if you're yourself, but outside of your body, like that, your brain is like a different person, like the wise part of me, Okay, the one that actually like as if I'm talking to someone else kind of.
Speaker 4:But there's all these parts that just get freaked out or like sometimes I feel like I'm eight again and I'm like acting out of that person. That's what.
Speaker 5:I was going to say is there's that's interesting and I wonder if that's a little bit of what you're doing, because there is kind of a therapeutic technique of like parenting your inner child very mindfully and literally, um you know, kind of going back and speaking to them. And a lot of times people do say they realize in doing that like, oh, I would never speak to a child the way that I speak to myself.
Speaker 4:Exactly.
Speaker 4:That's exactly it I mean internal family systems, is a form of therapy that I think is really cool. And I, yeah, even even when, um and again, I think this is common for women, but I think it's common for all people. But when you ask yourself, what do I need and the answer is I don't know, there's a practice to start there, because a little kid coming up to you saying I'm having a bad day, I feel bad, you'd be like, oh my gosh, what do you need? Let's put you over here with a bunch of blankets, I'll bring you a cup of tea.
Speaker 3:And like don't I do that for my? I want to. I want to do that for myself. Yeah, it's, it is I say this a lot that for business owners, um, you could put in all the processes, all the people, all of that stuff, but if the very first thing is, your mindset is not and your own personal perspective is out of alignment, you won't like all the rest of that stuff, you're going to step on yourself.
Speaker 3:You're just going to, and you will go through seasons where you're stepping on yourself, and maybe you just feel like you're stepping on yourself more than you actually are, but it's just there, and how do you give yourself grace in the midst of it is a just an interesting space of things and so Well, okay. So at the end of these, we like to ask a few just fun, random questions like and you can just tell us your thoughts on them?
Speaker 5:We were calling it the lightning round, but it ends up being like one of the longer segments of things, because everyone likes to suck a lot more stuff. So we're going to start calling it the slow round, or something.
Speaker 3:We should All right.
Speaker 1:So you're at a business meeting.
Speaker 3:What drink are you drinking? Scotch and networking. What'd you say? I said scotch at a business meeting.
Speaker 4:Sometimes when you have a small company that's your own, you can do that.
Speaker 3:That's exactly true. I love that. I've had people say well, what time of day is the meeting? And I'm like I don't know Cause. There's your answer and you're like scotch, doesn't matter if it's in the morning or in the evening I'm drinking my scotch.
Speaker 5:Scotch and scrambled eggs, please. Thanks so much.
Speaker 3:So my other half would always get an old-fashioned at one breakfast joint every time and I'm like it's 8 in the morning, doesn't matter, I'm getting. It's eight in the morning, doesn't matter, I'm getting old fashioned. I'm there. I'm there for that, okay, favorite person to follow podcast, instagram, facebook, tiktok.
Speaker 4:Oh, oh, oh, oh Okay, gabor Mate, who G-A-B-O-R-M-A-T-E with a An accent. Yeah, that's what they're called. Right, yeah, they're called. I like that.
Speaker 4:It's like a really basic word he is. His first book that I fell in love with is called In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts. It's about addiction, but it's, like you guys, it's all related to business. Everything he's ever written is related to business. And then the one that I read, I don't know every couple months is called when the Body Says no, also what we've been talking about today. But like all the stress you know that we hold in, how we've learned in society that our brains and our bodies are disconnected, and that's crazy. So it's a. Really it's like a more pedestrian version of the the body keeps the score. Like a more um, palatable version. I love it, love it, love it. It's amazing. And then he followed up that one with a book called the myth of normal, which also is or you told me to read that maybe we talked about it.
Speaker 4:I do talk about these three books too much. His everything he's got on youtube, everything he's Instagram like he's he's like 80 and he's just started this new phase of his career, which is also very inspiring. He's absolutely amazing.
Speaker 3:That's kind of fun. See, these are the things. I love them. I learned stuff.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I like when I don't know who these people are and I'm like, all right, I'm looking this up.
Speaker 3:Like spend the day.
Speaker 4:Um, how late is fashionably late 15 minutes.
Speaker 3:Okay, I tell people it's whenever I show up, that's when it's fashionably late.
Speaker 4:See, I want to hang out with you. This is, this is like such a that was a personality test right there.
Speaker 3:I had somebody say on one of these like if well, it depends on if now and I always think of this it depends on if it's a Zoom call or like in person. Like because if it's a Zoom call, it's zero minutes late. You cannot Zero minutes. And I'm like Never I was late today though, yeah, you were, that's okay. And I'm like oh shoot, I've should be on something and I run late to my team's Zoom meetings all the time. I'm like I'm again fashionably late is whenever I show up. Doesn't matter, I love it.
Speaker 4:All right, your biggest pet peeve. I have so many Brooke, oh gosh, I'm thinking of work things, but it doesn't have to be. Ah, this is such a good question. I guess pet peeves. You know what? It's probably some of the classic things like um, okay, let's, let's use this one.
Speaker 4:I'm not, I'm not going to use the phrase mansplaining but I am going to say on any call that I'm going to exactly on any call or any meeting where, literally multiple times, somebody repeats back to someone what they just said and take credit for it, like I, that's like the. That's like the times I need to put myself on mute, ideally turn my video off too, so I can just be like, like the, the rage that I feel it's it's actually it's one of the things that my coach would be like okay, so what's going on in you? And I'd be like, are you kidding me right now?
Speaker 3:that's awesome I love it. You're like it's not mansplaining, it's just anyone oversplaining to anyone taking credit for it.
Speaker 4:It's usually like white men, but you know uh, what's your personal motto? Personal motto Nothing to prove.
Speaker 3:Nothing to prove.
Speaker 4:Nothing to prove why it's like really, from features prominently in my letters to myself, like where I'll be. Like, dear Angela, today you have nothing to prove, today you can just go in, listen. You know, man, my coach is probably right, I probably mansplain. That's probably why it's such an issue to me, because I do need to remind myself to go into a situation and just listen and be present and not feel like it's on me to have the right answer, because I do. I really. I really get scared that people think that.
Speaker 5:Is that something that's inherent to you? Or is that a product of, just frankly, being a woman in, you know, a male-dominated space and being used to kind of having to be overly, yeah, effective and overly intelligent, and you know all of these like you, you do kind of, you know, feel the need to prove yourself, I would imagine, in some spaces, or did at some point.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. And, by the way, it's so nice to hear a man's voice say, in a male dominated world, like that was really satisfying. Um, I'm like thanks, thank you. Yeah, yeah, I think you're. You're right, it probably is almost. I'd love to speak to a woman that doesn't deal with that at all. Yeah, to be like, who are you? Tell me your secrets.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know if I've ever thought about if I deal with that or not.
Speaker 4:Okay, well, let's talk some more.
Speaker 3:I'm probably I probably really do, I can tell you that just from having conversations with you venting that you absolutely have.
Speaker 5:I do. I don't think I've ever said those statements to myself.
Speaker 3:Okay, what color do you think of when you think of a business owner?
Speaker 4:I don't know why I thought of blue. Why did I think of blue?
Speaker 3:I don't know, but it's just interesting. I have some people who say black, some people who said red, I think, and so it's just an interesting. Like you have a blue. Now she's going to talk to her therapist about that one, I think, and so it's just an interesting like you have a blue.
Speaker 4:Now she's going to talk to me about that I am. You guys should track this and then, like, do some sort of study on the colors people say over time.
Speaker 3:That would be very interesting and like what the personalities are associated with this yeah. Yeah, totally, the gypsy people have the blue.
Speaker 4:It's not even my favorite color or anything, so that's very interesting huh, that's very cool.
Speaker 3:All right, and what is your superpower?
Speaker 4:I suppose it is a thing that feels true to me, which is making people feel like they're the only person in the world when I'm talking with them, and it does. It feels true.
Speaker 3:It is amazing about Angela Like I will totally tell you all of that, like I'll watch her. Like she lives in Baltimore. I live in Indianapolis. I see her like when I go visit my brother, but I watch her like Instagram things or Facebook things when she like celebrates somebody else, and it is like you are dead on about like just really celebrating people and seeing who they are and just thriving in that, which is probably why you're also really good at creating a culture that people want to replicate, because you take the time to really sit down and like focus and be very present to whomever you're in there with. I would a hundred percent agree with you on that is a very good superpower for you and, yeah, I would almost say I'm jealous for your superpower.
Speaker 4:Oh, we can trade. I would really like some of yours.
Speaker 5:So we typically wrap with two kind of more existential questions.
Speaker 1:And the first one being define success for us.
Speaker 4:Personal or business?
Speaker 3:You decide that question.
Speaker 4:Oh man, they make it tough. Success is maybe. This is both maybe, but I think of it as two words keep hitting my mind, so I'll share them both. One is satisfaction, which is different than happiness, and the other one is generosity, or the feeling of being generous. If you feel like, yeah, maybe that's the one, If you feel satisfied and you feel like you can be generous, okay, that's it.
Speaker 5:I love. That In turn define failure for us now.
Speaker 4:Ah, that's the scariest word Failure, failure, that's the scariest word. Failure Okay, if I've failed, that means it means Okay. So yeah, for me, on the times that I have felt like a failure personally maybe it was a slice too it is when I feel completely disconnected from myself, like I'm not even here, I've missed out on my life that's very interesting, which is why, when you came back to the person said is it okay?
Speaker 3:that you didn't complete those things and you're like, yeah, and I'm satisfied, like you can, yeah, I was here for it, but yeah, I was still here. I things, oh well, those didn't get done. So I was still successful and I didn't fail because I felt myself writing letters to myself, which is why that probably is so good for you.
Speaker 4:You're so right, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:That's interesting, that's kind of cool.
Speaker 4:What a great therapy session, you guys, thank you I don't mean to be a therapist.
Speaker 3:A therapist would say oh my God, brooke, you talk too much. No, no. Entrepreneurship and therapy are hand in hand. You can't help it. You can't.
Speaker 3:I mean, it really comes back to your head space somewhere in there. And that's the journey. Like how did you get from? I am working, you know, I just graduated, I'm working in a church to all of a sudden you're running a huge company, a decent-sized company with 20 people having a huge amount of impact, and a lot of people are like it just happens overnight and it doesn't. It's such an emotional journey. And then if you're like I'm going to step and do this and I just got blown up on, a bunch of people were pissed at me and did it like that.
Speaker 3:It's not, you aren't alone in that. And what does that look like? And how does it look to create a business with a friend? I didn't even ask you all of those questions Like and and kind of not, not, it's just, it's a, it's a journey. It's hard and there are days it's good and there are days it's bad. And I think that's that's what we want people to walk away with is that you can either resonate with this person or you don't, and but maybe you heard something that helps you with something you're dealing with today. So you know, that's the fun jazz, thank you very, very much.
Speaker 1:I always love talking. Yes, thank you Thanks. Thank you all this has been fun.
Speaker 5:Angela, do you have anything that you like want to plug? Place that people can check you out If this conversation is relevant to them, website, anything like that you want to drop?
Speaker 4:on the end here. Website is realizeworthcom. We'd love for people to check us out. I'm super active on LinkedIn. That's probably the place, business-wise, to find me. Angela Parker.
Speaker 5:Awesome, thank you.
