"Embracing the Non-Linear Path: Faith, Self-Discovery, and the Art of Coaching" with Ed Johnson

When Ed Johnson walks into a room, his presence is felt—part executive coach, part spiritual guide, he has a story that will leave you reflecting on your own path. Our latest episode takes you through Ed's formative years in Virginia to the twists and turns of a career that's anything but linear. His candid recounting of rekindling his spirituality amid the chaos of 9-11 is as moving as it is insightful, providing a vivid backdrop to the lessons he's carried into his current practice.

Ed doesn’t just talk about transformation; he embodies it, sharing how self-discovery has not only shaped his life but also the lives of those he coaches. We delve into the subtleties of personal growth, examining how small changes in perspective, much like course corrections in a journey, can lead to significant shifts in life's trajectory. Prepare to be inspired by a man who understands the power of vulnerability and authenticity, and how they can unlock our full potential.
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Resources:
Find Ed on LinkedIn
Crafted Coach
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Please visit www.internationalfacilitatorsorganization.com to learn more about Mo Fathelbab and International Facilitators Organization (IFO), a leading provider of facilitators and related group facilitation services, providing training, certification, marketing services, education, and community for peer group facilitators at all stages of their career.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:10

Welcome to the Heart of Business podcast sponsored by International Facilitators Organization. I'm your host, Mo Fatalbat, and today our guest is Ed Johnson, executive coach and facilitator. Ed, it's a pleasure to have you with us. How are you today? I'm doing well. Thanks, Mo, it's great to be here. It's a pleasure to have you with us. How are you today? I'm doing well.

Speaker 2 0:26

Thanks, mo. It's great to be here, Looking forward to spending some time with you.

Speaker 1 0:30

Yes, likewise my friend. So Ed and I met gosh I think it's maybe 10 years ago and I think it was Scott McRoberts, maybe from the Virginia. Council of CEOs.

Speaker 2 0:41

that introduced us, yeah yeah, that's exactly right, I think it was 2015.

Speaker 1 0:45

Yeah, 2015, maybe, yeah, amazing, amazing. Well, and so, ed, let's start with just a little background. Maybe just share with us where you grew up and you know what was it like.

Speaker 2 1:00

Sure, yeah. So I grew up basically all over Virginia except northern Virginia, so Tidewater, Southside Virginia, the Valley, central Virginia I refer to 757, virginia Beach's home Grew up in a conservative family. I'm the oldest of five children. Faith was a huge part of our experience growing up. My father is a retired pastor, so we were always involved in church as we we grew up and I was moving around quite a bit. But in Virginia I had the opportunity to to always kind of restart. If you will Right, Make new relationships, think about how, how I wanted to show up in different spaces. If you will right, make new relationships, think about how I wanted to show up in different spaces.

Speaker 1 1:48

If you will, so yeah yeah, love it, and having a father as a pastor is obviously very meaningful and important. I'm wondering how it influenced you in terms of growing up and maybe your career choices.

Speaker 2 2:06

Yeah. So you know, growing up in the church, I was always connected and involved until probably my senior year in high school, maybe junior year in high school. We were living in the Valley at the time and I, for all intents and purposes, completely left faith, left the church, really kind of started branching out on my own. And then, when I went off to college and did my undergraduate work, I had absolutely nothing to do with the church, right? Well, let me tell you, I went into a sanctuary, I think twice while I was in college.

Speaker 2 2:40

First as a freshman, because they wanted us to sign the honor pledge while we're sitting in the sanctuary that we wouldn't cheat. I think they thought, if we did it in a quote-unquote holy space, that perhaps we would be more willing to uh to uphold the commitment we're making. And then the second time I went in was, um, I went in with a young woman who was my fiancee. We were looking to uh to get married. But there was the only two times I really went in church for those four years while I was in college.

Speaker 1 3:12

Okay, okay, it's interesting, that's very interesting, and so then let's go to after college. What?

Speaker 2 3:15

was your first job, or maybe your first job was before college, yeah. So, um, yeah, my first job was before college, was in high school, but my very first job, uh, was I got to do the wonderful task of flipping burgers and frying chicken at Hardee's in Virginia. I did that for a while and then I got to I worked at a gas station. I did a little bit of work on cars not much, but we pumped folks gas there, which was kind of something that you didn't experience back then. You know it had already long passed, so it was a neat thing to be able to interact with customers that way. A grocery store and then a natural bridge probably heard of natural bridge, a natural bridge in conference center, I think now it's a state park or something else, but back then it was privately owned and I was a bus boy for their restaurant for a while and then went off to college, managed a tobacco shop for a while, so I got into tobacco and cigars, things like that. And then, all over Richmond, virginia, I used to pick up and deliver power tools for construction workers and we would repair them and then I would take them back and then I did some manufacturer sales rep. So you see, I was just trying different things out, right yeah, as a manufacturer sales rep for a little bit. But then at the end of college I worked at a bank, a retail bank, for the last three months. I was there as an intern because I'd already made a commitment to go to work for New York Life Insurance where I was going to sell securities and mutual funds and all those sorts of things, where I was going to sell securities and mutual funds and all those sorts of things. And so I um, graduated college, went off to do that, and Mo um you know, we each have our own experiences I can tell you I was not mature enough and I did not have the connections to be working on my own in a fully commissioned role. And so I was on their books for maybe six months, but I maybe only worked it for three. And I remember I went out with a buddy of mine and watched a movie, and I can't even remember the name of the movie, maybe it was Almost Famous, I don't know. But we went out and watched a movie and I came out of the room and I said, you know what that's it? And I went and unpacked my cubicle, resigned and then I went back to work for that same bank I'd worked for and when I went to work there I went in as a manager in training, so I was the first one entered into the program. So I was pretty excited and ecstatic about that and I did that for 12 months. But while I was doing that, that's when I started coming back to faith.

Speaker 2 5:43

And then 9-11 happened. And when 9-11 happened, it was in that time, you know I was coming back to faith. 9-11, starting to get a little involved came down to two things and it was either going to a branch of the military or it was going to be to support individuals and serve within faith communities, within the church. And so I had an experience. I chaperoned a youth retreat one weekend and I was on that retreat and had a conversation with a young woman who was really struggling with some things that were going on with her family, and I don't know if you remember this, but she was a senior in high school, I think, and you remember, before phones we used to write notes, yeah, and from a faith perspective, what she said, she said last evening, you were Jesus to me and for someone who's in the Christian faith that's. I mean, it brought tears to my eyes and it was in that moment. I have a very different understanding of faith at this point in my life, but back then, as audible as I could experience, it was, hey, you're supposed to to serve faith communities, churches, and so, um, I came back from that retreat it was uh february, because I remember it was uh president's day, so I didn't have to work. You know, the bank federal holiday, we weren't open and I went and talked to the pastor of the church that I was attending at the time. I said, hey, I think I'm supposed to, you know, go off to seminary and blah blah, blah.

Speaker 2 7:46

And this guy, uh, still keep in touch with him, love him. His name is Dwight. He looked like a miniature Santa Claus, right, and he'd sit in his chair across from me, kind of like this, and, uh, for those of you that can't see, it's just kind of rocking back and forth, his eyes like beads, just dancing behind his glasses, almost Yoda-ish, right, and he says, well, there's a seminary down the road. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, dwight, this is years away. I've got student loans, I've got to take care of blah blah blah. And then he got me, because I had showed up in his office on a nap. I said what else do you have to do today? Right? So I left the office and I went down to the seminary and walked in to the admissions office and they gave me a wad of paper, a packet of paper, and said, hey, applications due a week from Friday if you want to come. And I was like, yeah, there's no way I'm doing this. You know, mo, a week from Friday. I turned it in Right, so that was 2002.

Speaker 2 8:46

So September 2002, I was off in seminary Amazing. And so I spent, I think, that October, november, I started working at a church, did four years I wasn't doing time, but I did four years there, getting the education required to go off and serve churches and support individuals, met my first wife there and finished up there and served a church in Ashland and then spent some time serving a large church for the denomination that I was in in Virginia Beach, which is what really propelled me into the space of a? Um, a little bit of organizational development and a lot of leadership development, if you will.

Speaker 1 9:30

Yeah, so thank you. That is what a great story. I want to go back to something you said. Um, when that young lady said last night you were Jesus to me, what did that mean to you?

Speaker 2 9:44

I'll tell you what mo um that was looking back now. That was the first time looking back now. That was the first time that I recognized how much of an impact one can make in someone else's life.

Speaker 1 10:14

Right yeah.

Speaker 2 10:18

In hindsight, we always have more thoughts, always able to dig in a little bit deeper. But a piece that I would add to that now on this side is not only can we make an impact in someone's life, we can also make an impact for good or for bad.

Speaker 1 10:36

Right, yeah, yeah. And how did you feel when she said that?

Speaker 2 10:49

Yeah, and how did you feel when she said that? Well, no, what I can tell you is this Monday through Friday. I was taking a note and the sense I got was I had made a larger difference in her life in the 20-minute conversation we had the evening before than in any of the 40, 50 folks that I had interacted with the week before at the bank.

Speaker 1 11:19

Amazing, amazing, yeah, so I'm going to play facilitator for a second. So emotions, how did you feel?

Speaker 2 11:25

Yeah, yeah, so I'm going to play facilitator for a second. So, emotions how did you feel? Yeah, yeah, there was gosh. Well, there were several. One was a um, I think there's. There was a sense of humility in the sense that, wait, um, is this really possible? Right, um. And then, uh, there's also a sense of joy, right, yeah, I mean this. This person, uh, the conversation we'd had was really observing them, very sad, frustrated, anxious, and now, the next day, there's a sense of calm and a sense of peace, and nothing had changed on the exterior, right, nothing around that person's environment had changed.

Speaker 2 12:19

Yeah, it's what happens in your head. Right, you got it. It's all in our head.

Speaker 1 12:29

So I love what you just shared and I appreciate it, and it means a lot to me because I'm reflecting on a moment when I was at a retreat and one of the participants, after an emotional exercise exercise, looked at me and said this is church, and that brought me to tears no-transcript, and it's funny.

Supporting Self-Awareness and Impactful Connections"

Speaker 2 13:23

I was thinking about our time together today and jotted down a few notes and read you one of the notes I wrote. There was a common thread that I now get to pull through it all that word thread resonates with me.

Speaker 2 13:37

And the sense of it is. It's supporting people, supporting individuals to be better versions of themselves, and one of the key aspects of that and the focus of what I do really has to do with self-awareness. There was a season in my life where I was incredibly un-self-aware yeah, right yeah, and I'm also aware enough of myself now to know that I still have opportunities to become more self-aware. But there's something to enabling, encouraging, supporting individuals to become more self-aware that enables them to not only be better versions of themselves, but also to then impact individuals, also for good, and to be intentional about how they do that.

Speaker 1 14:36

For good and to be intentional about how they do that. Yeah Well, boy, this is music to my ears. I'm sure no surprise to you. We often talk about peer groups and the power of these peer groups. We often talk about vulnerability and impact vulnerability has as it relates to creating meaningful connections. Impact vulnerability has as it relates to creating meaningful connections, enabling awareness, enabling people to see themselves through others' eyes so they could be more self-aware.

Speaker 1 15:13

And as I hear you, I realize you know, really, beneath all that, what inspires me to do this work is the moments when somebody says you've made an impact on my life.

Speaker 2 15:19

Right, you know, we really are in the business of, of improving lives, and what an honor and a privilege and and um a gift to be able to do this work yeah, you know, mo, it's a um, it's, it's a sacred space, not in the sense of a religious space, no, but a sacred space, whether it's two or more right, that are truly authentic, where people are willing to be vulnerable, whether it's by choice or because they have no other option at this point in life. Yeah, and to get to do that for a living from my perspective and this is a me, is a me thing, and for the way that I'm wired, I I wouldn't want it any other way. There's nothing else that that I'm, that's the reason that I'm here yeah, right, you wanted to hear something funny for you.

Speaker 1 16:28

So I actually was a finance major and, uh, you know, so there's a commonality here, right, the bank and the 20 minutes with this young lady was way more meaningful to you. And so there you go, I was a finance major, I thought I was going to work on Wall Street and, lo and behold, I meet this guy, vern Harnish, who started the Entrepreneurs Organization, and life took a turn for the better and, uh, what a blessing to you know, be exposed and have this opportunity, because I had no idea I thought I'm gonna be a numbers guy. And I look in the mirror today and I'm like, oh my god, I'm not sure I'd be very good or happy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 17:13

Yeah, yeah, well, you know. So, um I uh, when I left ministry in 2015, um, it was because of my lack of self-awareness, right, but you want to know where I ended up back?

Speaker 1 17:31

Where.

Speaker 2 17:32

Bank. So, uh, uh. So I spent one month as a seasonal driver for UPS, and then I got hired by a bank and I went from where. When I was in Virginia Beach, I was the executive pastor, and so we had a congregation of about 2000,000 worshiping 750 to 900 folks on Sunday, and you know, staff, and all of this right To where, all of a sudden, now I was punching a time clock in the morning, yeah, and punching again in the evening. And all right, ed, how many phone calls did you make today? How many people did you talk to? Right? And that was the hardest year of my life, that huge shift, right.

Speaker 2 18:23

So I did that for a year and then I transitioned to mortgage for a couple years and then, kind of, the other side of this is the power of other people. In my life, there was an individual that walked with me through that entire transition and everything that I went through. They put up with me, mentored me and provided opportunities for me that otherwise I wouldn't have experienced. And they approached me in 2018 and they said, hey, ed, they were actually someone that was a member of my previous congregation. They said, ed, ed, they were actually someone that was a member of my previous congregation. They said, ed, this executive coaching, this leadership coaching, leadership development this is what you were doing in the church. You need to look at this. There you go, there you go.

Speaker 2 19:17

And so I went and signed up to do the coursework certification program. And so, in January of 2019, I sat down in a classroom and, um, it's about 20, 25 other folks there and, within 15 minutes, um, I'm crying and it was, oh my gosh, I found my people again. And it was, oh my gosh, I found my people again. And that was five years ago. And then now that leads to where I get to use this common thread right of now supporting folks. So do that. Executive coaching.

Speaker 1 19:48

Yeah, how much of what you learned there applies to the executive coaching that you're doing now versus the stuff that you learned in the coaching certification?

Speaker 2 20:00

um are you asking from the uh leading the faith communities to the? Yeah, yeah, you know, I would um take away the religiosity piece of it and it goes hand in hand.

Speaker 1 20:13

Okay, right, it's very similar.

Speaker 2 20:15

There were a few classes that I had in seminary group leadership and process skills and leading congregations and agencies, and then a pastoral care class with the teachings of scripture or things like that. That really focused in and really went hand in hand with what I got when I went through the certification process. So, and there was some gosh 16, 17 years difference between between seminary and when I went through that certification process. So it was just kind of there was a reminder and then kind of the add-ons, you know and then you bring. You know how this is, you know as a facilitator, you bring your entire life experience with you whenever you're in front of a group of folks, whenever you're one-on-one with somebody, because that's how we learn right we learn from each other's experiences.

The Power of Vulnerability and Coaching

Speaker 1 21:12

Great stuff. So we talked about vulnerability. How has vulnerability shaped your life? In what way has it helped you?

Speaker 2 21:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1 21:28

And I'm asking the counterintuitive question because too often I meet people that don't do this work, who aren't involved in these meaningful conversations, and they think vulnerability is bad or it's a weakness. But I think obviously it can be a weakness in the wrong situation, in the wrong circumstance, but in the right circumstance it's incredibly meaningful and powerful. I'm wondering what example you might have of that in your life.

Speaker 2 22:06

I think when we're willing to be vulnerable, I think that leads to a self-awareness, because when we're vulnerable, we're putting we'll call it our stuff quote, unquote stuff out there, right, it's causing us to look at something that perhaps we haven't looked at intentionally before.

Speaker 2 22:31

Yeah, Um, and causing us to look at something that perhaps we haven't looked at intentionally before.

Speaker 2 22:36

Yeah, um, I've had examples of that in my own life, but I could also turn to examples where I've declined the opportunity to be vulnerable also right, and you get the repercussions of that right, whether you are vulnerable or you get the repercussions of that right, whether you are vulnerable or aren't vulnerable, you get the repercussions of that.

Speaker 2 22:53

And if you are vulnerable in those spaces where it's safe, like a peer learning experience or in a coaching session or with a therapist or whatever, there's some real opportunity for growth and some real opportunity for folks to be intentional about changes they want to make in the trajectory of their life. And it may not be a huge shift, right? I mean, you're driving down the road with two hands at 10 and 2, you end up at one place, but you shift those hands ever so slightly. You're going to end up in a very different place, but you didn't make much of an adjustment. And so sometimes those moments of vulnerability, kind of a recognition of where we are and what's going on in our lives, is just enough, prodding that we need to make a slight adjustment. That could lead to a very different outcome.

Speaker 1 23:39

Wisdom wisdom, my friend, thank you. So, speaking of wisdom, what fundamental values or principles have guided you in building your successful coaching practice?

Speaker 2 23:52

have guided you in building your successful coaching practice. One of the things that's always been important to me, mo, and this may even be something about honesty honesty and authenticity. I'll tell you a funny story Just from my childhood. I think it's funny so no one else has to laugh, but at least I'll get to laugh.

Speaker 2 24:11

I was in high school I think I was 10th grade and at the time I was living in Danville, virginia, and I remember I was in the. I was in the basement and I was watching. I was watching the Atlanta Braves, tbs Superstation, right, I think they might've even been in the playoffs. Well, at that time in my life, 10th grade, I hadn't left faith or left the church community at the time, and I would meet with a group of folks that were my age. We'd gather together in a special space or certain space in the high school and we'd pray before the day started, right, it's kind of a check-in and it was. I mean it was great. Well, it was one morning we met and the majority of us said you know what we're?

Speaker 2 24:55

going to skip school today. So we left, right, yeah, well, at that time you'd get a phone call at your parents' house in the evening and they would say hey, you know, so-and-so wasn't at school today. So I'm down there in the basement watching the Braves Phone rings. I grab it, Cover the phone call. Right, I am in the clear now. I just got to write a note in the clear. I'm sitting there and no, I couldn't do it. I went upstairs, I woke my parents up and told them what I had done and they made me write my own note, sign it myself instead of with them, and I had to reap the repercussions of that and I got in school suspension for a couple of days. So that's a funny story.

Speaker 2 25:38

Looking back on it now, right, yeah, but I can also think of times that there's something about that value and I think I got it.

Speaker 2 25:48

Well, I'm sure I developed it from my parents, my mother, my father, and there have been times where it's been uncomfortable, where I've been. Luckily, I've been willing to say something or confess to something that would have been a whole lot easier to not say right, and sometimes that's where you've wronged somebody unintentionally. But it can also be where you have wronged someone, maybe not intentionally, but you knew what you were doing, right, yeah, yeah. So honesty has been a piece that's really been important for me, and then another piece it's really important, particularly in the coaching space. It's just recognizing that, you know, we, recognizing that we're all walking in our own shoes. I don't know all the experiences that you've had or anyone else has had. There's no space for me to judge decisions that one person is making, even if I would have made a different decision. The opportunity is to simply be present with somebody and provide that space where they can sort things out and talk things through.

Speaker 1 26:59

Yeah, so, as a coach, your job is not to tell them what they should do.

Speaker 2 27:05

Bo, you don't want me telling you what to do. No, in fact, when I'm doing my introduction the kind of intro session, the way that I say that I'd say, hey, the first thing is I'm going to tell you what I'm not here to do. I'm not your mentor. I'm not going to say, hey, I've been in your shoes, I know what you're dealing with. Let me tell you what I did. Let me teach you how to do it. Let's do it together.

Speaker 2 27:29

So I'm not a mentor in the coaching space, I'm not a consultant. So I'm not going to come in and say, hey, where do you want to be in six months or 12 months or 60 months, and then write up a you know a map or a plan, and then we'll check in and, hey, are you following the plan I gave you? So I'm not a consultant and I tell folks or anything like that. I may prescribe a nap from time to time, but that's just. That's the way I like to roll. And it also means we're not sitting in the proverbial car looking at the rearview mirror why am I the way I am today? Right? That doesn't mean that the coaching session might not feel therapeutic, but therapeutic from the perspective of two fully functioning human beings having conversations about things that really matter.

Speaker 2 28:19

So what my role is, if you imagine two folks on a journey headed down a path that neither one of us have been down before, and the coachee. Their opportunity is to discern where do they want to go, how quickly they want to move and what resources they want to use along the way. And the opportunity for me in this relationship is to partner with them and to ultimately, uh, ask questions that will hopefully empower them to discern where do they want to go, how quickly they want to move to get there and what resources they might want to use along the way. And I'll offer resources, you know, uh, but when I offer resources, it's not a hey, you need to go do this, it's a this is something you might want to consider. And if they bite, we go down that path, if not, we go a different direction down the path.

Speaker 1 29:01

Brilliant. Let's talk about facilitation. How do you see that in comparison to coaching and like? Give us a sense of the difference from your perspective as to what happens when you're facilitating a peer group or an executive team as opposed to coaching an individual the um.

Speaker 2 29:24

So when you're in a coaching relationship or engagement, you have the experience of the, the two folks that are present, and that's it right. And there's a lot there and there can be a lot gained there. And there's also, more often in my experience, a willingness to be vulnerable and to share things quicker than you might in a larger group. But the beauty of the larger group is those relationships last longer. So coaching engagements three, six months, maybe nine months, right. Or you might check in every now and then, but from a peer experience, you're meeting on a regular basis, monthly, quarterly, whatever it might be. But you're also learning from the experience of everyone that's in that space with you, right. And when someone shares a situation that they're struggling with or they're having a challenge with and then it comes time for others to contribute how their past experiences connect Right, I invite folks to think about hey, you've heard so-and-so's story.

Speaker 2 30:32

You may have a story that connects with them based off the emotion they shared. It may connect with them based off of a relationship piece that they shared. You may have a story that connects with them because of the actual it that they're struggling with. Whatever, it is right. Your opportunity is to discover, discern where your experiences connect with what they've shared and then just tell your story and that's it, and I encourage them. Sometimes folks have a hard time with this, right, so I say so, let's do it this way. I want you to introduce it by saying I remember a time when, saying I remember a time when because I want to make sure that you're not going to give advice or get into the shouldas, right I remember a time when and so the difference there is, instead of relying on the coachee to kind of sort and talk things out in the peer group, you get to talk things out out, but you also get to hear from specific examples and situations that other folks have actually lived through great, great example.

Speaker 1 31:39

Well said and amen. You're again preaching to the choir. And for those people that don't really understand the benefit of being in a peer group, what else can you say about that?

Speaker 2 31:53

My goodness. So forgive me, I haven't thought through this extensively, but I'm going to share what's going, what's coming up for me in my mind. Perfect, going to share what's going, what's coming up for me in my mind. Um, with all of the opportunities that we have today to share our life with others, specifically social media yeah, right, there are not that many spaces where we are authentically sharing our life. Ooh, love it.

Speaker 2 32:35

And that peer group when you're in the group and whether it's you or someone else that takes that first vulnerable step, that opens it up for others to be authentic and be vulnerable. That's where the growth happens, right, and so on social media, it's like we're looking for encouragement, right, like you can do it, I think In the peer group you get that, but you also get that authentic relationship. And there's people walking with you down that path that are truly in your corner, not from a distance. Hey, you got it, you can do it. Right, they're not shouting from it, right, they're not shouting from some distant space. They're, in essence, they have their arm around you. We got this, you can do this.

Speaker 1 33:19

Absolutely, absolutely Brilliant, brilliant Ed Johnson. What a pleasure speaking with you today. Ed, for those of you that don't know, is one of international facilitator organizations, facilitators, one of our certified facilitators and, as you've heard and noticed, he is an amazing human being with many gifts to bear, and I'm just so grateful to have you as part of our organization and part of our movement. And, ed, before we say goodbye, I want to just say to our listeners that they could follow us wherever podcasts are available, and also that the reviews have a real impact on the podcast's visibility, and so, if you enjoyed this podcast, please give us a like and a review. Thank you all for listening and, ed, thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you for a great conversation. Thank you, mo Such a pleasure.

Speaker 2 34:15

Thank you all for listening and, ed, thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you for a great conversation. Thank you, mo. Such a pleasure, thank you, thank you.