The Heart of Business
"The Heart of Business" podcast, hosted by Mo Fathelbab, is an authentic and insightful exploration of the human side of leadership and professional growth. Through candid conversations with accomplished business leaders, thought leaders, and peer group facilitators, Mo will delve deep into the personal journeys, challenges, and triumphs that have shaped their careers. Mo Fathelbab's skillful and empathetic approach creates a safe space for guests to share their truths and vulnerabilities, revealing the emotional and often unseen dimensions of success in the corporate world. Each episode offers listeners a chance to glean practical wisdom, heartfelt advice, and a profound understanding of the intricate interplay between leadership, authenticity, and personal growth.
The "Heart of Business" is the official podcast of International Facilitators Organization, LLC and hosted by IFO's founder and CEO, Mo Fathelbab. To learn more, please visit www.internationalfacilitatorsorganization.com.
The Heart of Business
Aaron Moore: From Contractor to Community Architect
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In this episode, we sit down with Aaron Moore, President of PPD Painting and Co-Founder of the Commercial Painting Industry Association, to explore how industry-specific peer forums transform insight into action—and relationships into a powerful retention engine.
Aaron shares his journey from Chicago startup to buying out a partner, scaling a commercial painting company, and building CPIA around a forum model inspired by EO and YPO. We unpack the structure behind high-performing groups: non-competing peers across geographies, monthly virtual meetings, in-person sessions, and a deceptively simple update framework that surfaces what’s working, what’s draining energy, the best idea, the most important action—and the one thing you don’t want to talk about.
The game-changer? Experience-sharing over advice. Speaking from lived wins and losses lowers defenses, accelerates learning, and drives clearer action.
We also explore how forum habits migrate inside companies—leaders replacing certainty with curiosity, teams balancing KPIs with the human layer that drives execution, and members navigating ownership transitions, succession planning, and tough decisions with greater clarity and confidence.
If you lead a trade, run a chapter, or want a serious leadership edge, this episode is a practical playbook for building high-trust peer groups that actually move the needle.
Please visit www.internationalfacilitatorsorganization.com to learn more about Mo Fathelbab and International Facilitators Organization (IFO), a leading provider of facilitators and related group facilitation services, providing training, certification, marketing services, education, and community for peer group facilitators at all stages of their career.
Welcome to the Heart of Business Podcast, sponsored by International Facilitators Organization, the Marketplace for Facilitators. I'm your host, Mo Fatelbob, and today our guest is Aaron Moore, president of PPD Painting and co-founder of the Commercial Painting Industry Association. Welcome, Aaron.
SPEAKER_00:Mo, how are you, brother?
SPEAKER_01:Um good, brother. Great to have you with us.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks so much for having me on. I'm really excited about this, and I'm really excited about what you're doing with uh IFO and you know, got to be part of uh your certification process. So thanks for having me on and like excited to share my story and see uh if we can't spread the word of uh peer groups and the uh and the importance of them and the impact that they can have in individuals and organizations.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I love that, and uh that very much is a conversation I want to have with you because you've done a great job with those peer groups as well. I want to just start with giving our audience a glimpse of who you are and maybe your entrepreneurial journey briefly, uh, and then we'll dive into a little bit more of what we're doing and what you're working on and what we're working on right now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, of course. Well, um, so the long and short, I'm a kid, grew up basically in Chicago, uh, was born in rural Pennsylvania, moved to Chicago when I was a little kid, and uh grew up there, went to Eastern Illinois University, got a degree in finance, and came out of college not sure exactly what I was gonna do. Um, you know, got my brokerage license, kind of messed around in sales jobs, and had a buddy who had a painting company that I was helping on the weekend and decided I was gonna take a full-time real job with Washington Mutual, and he said, I'll give you half of this painting company if you stay. And uh that was the door I needed to become entrepreneurial. I've always been entrepreneurial, and it was kind of, you know, I say that you know, people like me are kind of born this way. Um that's just kind of how it was. And that's I always wanted that opportunity to do something for myself. And when that opportunity arose, I took it. And um and I were partners for the next decade or so. I ended up down moving down the road. It just kind of the business kept growing. It wasn't something that you know, he wanted to be involved in it, certainly, but he wasn't really looking, he didn't have the same vision that I had for this bigger product project. And so I ended up buying him out and uh he stayed with us, which I think is a testament to our relationship. Is he was with us, I think like eight or nine years after we after the purchase was done, and uh was a key element and continued to be part of a key to our success. So I think that was a really interesting uh piece and built the painting company, kind of got involved in organizations from like local trade organizations to small giants, which is kind of a culturally driven organization out there. Um, Inc. magazine. We became Inc. 5000 for six times over the last few years, and that got me involved in some of their conferences that they were doing at the time. I got introduced to Entrepreneurs Organization, which is kind of how this sort of came to be, right? So they taught me the value of forum and was turned on to your book about forum, which helped me kind of lay the groundwork for our organization at the CPIA. So I founded a trade organization inside the painting industry, focused on that. You know, EO was great because that forum model, that peer group model works so well. But what I was missing was like I'm at I'm at a table with a guy who manufactures doorknobs and a guy who's you know runs a documents tech company, and you have a guy, so like we do all have the same problems, and the personal piece was really there. But like when it came down to like how much do I pay my foreman or like what is you know, like how do I deal? I have this GC that's suing me. How do I deal with it? You know, those kind of in the weeds program or problems were a little bit trickier. And I felt like if we had the same model that we were using, you know, or a similar model that we were using in EO and my partner theirs in YPO, like how could we take this to our industry and really repurpose it? And I think that that's what IFO has kind of opened my eyes to, and that's what your book kind of opened. Like, hey, we could do this following kind of the same frameworks, but bring it into uh an industry-specific group. So that's where the kind of that was the ideation of it, and that's where it went. And you know, move six years later. We've got 10 peer groups and you know, hundreds of you know, almost a couple hundred members. So it's been a it's been a fun journey.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that is a great story and a great journey, and I appreciate so. Aaron, before we dig into the peer groups themselves and how you guys do it and and all that stuff, what do you think the impact of these peer groups uh is for an organization like EO and what has it been for an organization uh like yours?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I'd say one thing is it makes the organization sticky, right? Because you build these really strong bonds and relationships, right? So when you start to build those bonds and relationships, it becomes more than like, okay, we have this meeting we go to once a year, or we have this content that we get, you know, like you can't put a price tag on people's knowledge and wisdom, right? And so now when you're able to tap into that shared wisdom and you build these really deep relationships and connections with people, it's like if I left the organization, I'd be kind of letting down my friends because these people become not they're not just colleagues, like these are like, you know, your peer group members become some of your closest friends. My original peer group in EO, I still talk to multiple people from that group on a weekly basis. I mean, my mentors from YPO when I was in EO, I mean, those are still the guys that I turn to when I have a question. And those guys are all sold their businesses, retired, living in Florida somewhere, you know. But those are that's my network. And so really, I think that the real power as an organization is that it makes the organization sticky and really cohesive. So people understand they have a deeper relationship with one another, which makes them want to participate. It makes them in it drives engagement. So those are kind of the things that I think from the from the outside looking in and from like you know, from the founder level, those are the benefits to your organization. I think any sort of organization, whether it's you know, you know, some of these consulting guru types or whether it's an actual trade association, would all benefit from this model, yeah, and from peer groups of some sort.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. Here, here, uh, you're preaching to the choir. I I believe that in my soul, and uh that is absolutely why we started IFO. So, Aaron, I I'm struck by uh just how much you've you know embraced this concept uh that you that you first uh heard about and and participated in and EO, and then really uh it's become an important part of your business. How much do you think your members care about this specific offering, your forums, compared to other offerings that you provide them?
SPEAKER_00:You know, really it's become the paramount focus of the organization, you know. So it real really like it's hard for us to really bring a value prop to our members that doesn't include the peer group because that really is where the gold is. So as far as our organization is concerned at the CPIA, I think that it's invaluable. I mean, it would like without it, we wouldn't have an organization, frankly. I mean, that's what our that's what we bring to the table. I mean, we have vendors that partner, we offer some special, you know, like you know, discounted on stuff and sort of things that you typically see in a trade organization. We have educational content, which you know can be good, but at the end of the day, the education comes from doers, right? Like, I want the education to come from the guy who's sitting across the table from me who's actually done and experienced it. And I think that that's the core of why I'm so passionate about these, is that like I've been down the road of buying the systems of get rich quit, you know. Like, I bought all the systems, and it's like so you know, the old adage of those who can't do teach, right? Like, they the the reality is is like if you knew how to make a bunch of money painting, I want to learn that from a guy who is making a bunch of money painting. I don't want to learn this from a guy who tells me he knows how to make money painting, but he's not making money painting. Like those are the tooting, yeah. So, so that's really where our organization has gone, and that's where it's really been the strength. And I think, you know, to move it even a little further, hopefully I don't go totally off topic, but really it's kind of turned internally into like, you know, we've got leadership development groups, and I have a couple of my guys in leadership development groups, and like I've shown some of our other division managers at the painting company, and then we have like like tomorrow's my division manager meeting. They're like, You're running this thing like a peer group, like you're asking us questions that don't have anything to do with like how much money are we generating this week? It's like, what's going on? What's going on with the business? What's going on with your relationships with the people in your office? Like, because like that's the stuff that moves the needle, right? And so I think that really learning this not only in the fact of starting an association and running these peer groups inside an association, but to bring it full circle back to your actual company and your organization and have these groups within your company. You know, these guys were running offices in different areas of the country and they sit down and go over stuff. And yes, is some of it technical? Of course it is. It's a business. We have to talk about KPIs and blah, blah, blah. But the other part of it is human. And if you can take it to that human level, now all of a sudden, these guys are close. Now my organization is sticky. So, like, that's where it starts to move the needle. And I think that that's the full circle approach. And we've seen our update form that we tend to use at CPIA has turned into update forms that our members are using in leadership meetings in their organizations. And they're like, we're actually running our meetings like this, we've learned so much. So it's really, I mean, it it's really exponential, and it can really kind of bridge the gap in so many different ways than just in, you know, right in front of you, what you see as the obvious way.
SPEAKER_01:So let's talk about how those meetings are run. What is it that you guys are doing when you run those meetings that that is causing these entrepreneurs to say, oh my God, I'm gonna run my own meetings at my business like that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, we use a pretty straightforward update form, although it would, you know, some groups vary, like we have a, you know, like many organizations, they have kind of a range of update forms, but our basic update form kind of talks about, you know, your best idea, what's working, what's draining your energy, your most important action, some of these types of questions, and then obviously concluded with the one thing you don't want to talk about, right? So, like that always opens the door to a lot of interesting uh conversations. But I think what and and I don't know that that question is moving into the corporate, you know, or company meeting so much as like, hey, what's your best idea? What's the most important action you took in the last month? So you bring those questions into a meeting, and all of a sudden, even the reflection, I think, of preparing to answer that question, self-reflecting on that, going, man, what was my best idea last month? And like, I didn't really have any good ideas. Well, then let's think of something good, you know? And what was the most important thing I did last month? So I think it helps frame people's ex, you know, frames people mentally to look at what's taking away from my job, what am I doing well in my job, and what are the things that I want to do in the future? And that really helps uh and it helps build uh great leaders inside your organization, I'd say.
SPEAKER_01:So I love that. And here's my question for you I know you believe, like I believe, that every single human being could benefit from being in a forum. My question to you is what do you say to people who have no idea what this is who don't join? Because you know, I'm I'm betting 99% of the population doesn't have access or awareness or ability to join one of these groups, or and within that 99%, many of them are like, I don't need that. So what do you say to those people?
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's hard because it's a little bit tough because different people, you know, people are different, right? Different personalities, and we've had that, right? Like I had our original, like when I kicked off this original, the we're we're we call our our peer group the OGs, because we are the original peer group in the CPIA. And you know, we went through a few people, and you know, one of the feedback I got because I was kind of interviewing people as they would leave, you know, we're you know, kind of a new organization, and one of the guys like, I just don't need this touchy-feely stuff. I just wanted to talk about business, and I'm like, Well, you know, do you think that this doesn't have anything to do with your business? Like, I hate to let you in on a secret, like what's going on outside the door walls of your business, it impacts your business. So if you're you know, but you know, it's kind of like you could lead a horse to water, can't make him drink type thing. So I'd say, you know, like a lot of times I don't think people have a full understanding of what it is, right? When I joined EO and the day I walked into our forum training, I had not a clue what I was walking into. Like, no idea. I thought this was like a business mastermind kind of group, which it is, but I didn't recognize like what the what the what it was gonna be and the impact it would have, or what that we were gonna be talking about something that wasn't specifically related to business that was more related to me. Um and then I didn't understand language protocol, you know, that people talk from experience and how if you're not speaking from experience, people can, you know, you can put people's guard up, or you can tell them, you know, telling people what to do. You know, it just doesn't, it it doesn't have nearly the impact of talking from your perspective, right? So that's uh those are some of the tools that I think really change people's mind. But it, you know, if someone's like, hey, I don't want to do this, I'm not an into it, you know, we can have a short conversation, but I I don't know that you can I agree that it it's it's beneficial for there's no one who can't benefit from it. But you know, there's lots of things in this world that you know no one can but lots of people could benefit from eating more vegetables too.
SPEAKER_01:So help me and help those people make the link from the touchy feely and I don't want to go there. And you said, but what's happening outside of your walls is affecting what's happening inside your walls. Maybe help me make the link for those that don't quite get that.
SPEAKER_00:So, you know, when we look at you know, you can't take apart and like you can segment things, but at the end of the day, it all makes up a hole, right? So, you know, you could take this and say, like, you know, do you think that your relationship your with your wife affects your relationship with your children? They're two different relationships, right? Do you think that like what you're doing at work, you know, even this morning, I probably sharing more than I should, but you know, this morning I was just kind of quiet. I wasn't in a great, you know, I'm not in a bad mood, but I had like some not, you know, we got our end of year financial, we didn't perform quite as well as I had hoped we would perform. I'm not like I'm not losing my house. I'm not, you know, but it was just like the numbers weren't where I wanted them to be and where I'd hoped that they would be. And, you know, we had a we had our largest year from a revenue perspective, and but we, you know, I'm not thrilled about it, you know. And my wife's like text me when I got to the office. She's like, Do you need me to bring you something? It seems like something's wrong. And I'm like, I'm okay. It's just, you know, I'm just I have a lot on my mind. And she, you know, she follows up. So, like, does that piece of me, you know, like the fact that I didn't have my number, and I didn't really talk to her about the facts or what it was, you know, it's not really I will when I'm ready, but I just need to digest it for myself. But that's a conversation that like, you know, we talk about not sharing everything with everybody in the world, which you know, I guess I am on a podcast right now, but I'm not being specific as to what it is. But I think that like that thing at work affected my relationship at home, right? Not in a negative way, you know, we're not having a big fight or anything over it, but it was something that was noticeable to her that said, hey, so to try to pretend like we can segment, I leave work here when I walk out through that door and it stays there, like it it does, it can to a degree. Like, I don't have to walk in with my financial reports that we went over yesterday with my office team at the year-end closeout and go, hey babe, look at everything, look what we did. But you wear it on your face, you wear it in your percent. This is who you are. And the same thing happens if you have a if I had a blowout fight with my wife this morning. I wouldn't want to be in the mood to be on this podcast talking to you with a smile on my face.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. And you know, furthermore, I love all that. I think that's right on, and I love the way you just broke it down and just how real you made it. Um, the other thing that I've noticed is your behavior is also consistent, whether you're at work or at home. And sometimes people get feedback at work and they're like, ooh, I wonder if this is what's happening in my house as well.
SPEAKER_00:Great point. Yeah. And you can see it in people's relationships with how they are with at work and then how they are if you see them on the outside in a social setting sometimes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, how long are your meetings and how often?
SPEAKER_00:So, our meetings are once a month. Uh, I actually have my meeting today. We run so the virtual meetings that we do, so we do virtual meetings because the one thing about having everyone in the same business that makes it challenging one of the challenges that we found where you don't in you don't uh run into this in the non-secretor, you know, uh organizations, is we have to be non-competing, right? So yes, it you so you end up with you can't have you have to be geographical, geographically spread, because otherwise, if I have a contractor in Chicago and I'm in Chicago, it's kind of hard to share openly with the guy who you're bidding against every month. So of course uh we do our meetings virtually and then we meet in person two to three times a year. We as an organization facilitate it twice a year. In persons are half day to six hours, depending on the group, and then our meetings are two to three hours virtual. So we try to keep them to two hours-ish, you know, we have it booked for two hours sometimes. What we've been doing is we've been doing updates every other month and then doing more presentation-based meetings every, you know. So what happened is because of our time, because we, you know, it's hard to get people three hours and a video call. It is been, we found it to be beneficial to move that update to do it every other month. And then more stuff happens, there's more to talk about. And then after that update, we can really take time to have great presentations, whether it be an outside presenter or an internal presentation. We're able to have more time to prepare and then commit more time to those presentations. So we find our update meetings run more like updates, I'd call it more like issue clearing presentations than like full-on presentations. Like, Mo, hey, you had something come up. Let's talk about that for a minute. And it's just kind of a mini presentation with a quick, hey, does anyone have any like instead of all the way around the room one at a time, like, hey, does anybody have anything on this that they want to share? Two or three people share, and then on to the next one. So we can hit more things, and then we can take the ones that are like the big things and move those to uh time where they're set aside, whether that be sometimes it's you know, I think our presentation today, which I'm not over sharing, is like one of the guys showcasing how he's utilizing AI and his business, right? So he's been uh, you know, kind of on the forefront of it. And that's that's not a personal thing, that's a technical thing, but it's something that we'll all benefit from. And then we're gonna we have kind of we made like an abbreviated update form where we said pick two questions from the update form and answer them. We're gonna do quick updates and anything that you want to talk about so we can bolt that onto the back. So, you know, we're not quite as we're slightly flexible. That's why I think you and I have talked about kind of you know, what are the pillars that make that that you cannot vary from, and then what are the things that you can have a little bit of wiggle room and and that's where you know we we are trying to make sure that um we're we're the the pillars are non-negotiable.
SPEAKER_01:That's right. So how many people per group in your groups?
SPEAKER_00:Um we try to keep it around eight, we cap it at ten, and we refill at six.
SPEAKER_01:Good answer, thank you. And what would you say your members would say the ways they've benefited are? So what what would they say that I benefited because I did this and this happened?
SPEAKER_00:Sure. Well, I think that twofold. One is obviously the the technical parts of it, right? You know, you have people that I think we've seen what we've seen a fair amount of is business transition, right? So, you know, people are, you know, on the on the towards the end of their career and looking at how do we transition these businesses. People are, you know, people are coming into the business. So they might be, you know, a key employee, you know, like someone in the leadership development. I mean, we've had about our first leadership development peer group. I think half of those people are now owners of their companies. So like they're their people invested in them to get the tools that they needed to lead the organization. And then at some point they either bought in or a parent retired out and they came in. There's a lot of different business transactions or transitions, not transactions, although some transactions as well, you know, that have happened that I think have been really interesting. And you're able to, in confidence, you know, because these peer groups are confidential. Yeah. So they're able to have a place where they can confident know that they have a confidential group of peers to talk about this that's not going to get back to the other side, right? So, like, you know, I think that that has been really nice. That's been where people have gained a lot. And then the other side is just in that, like I talked about the shared wisdom, is you know, we talk about experience sharing in the kind of language protocol that I think you know, probably most of your audience is familiar with, but you know, speaking from experience rather than telling people what to do. And really, where people where we where we see that magic happen is when you know Mo can say to me, Well, when this when something similar, or sometimes when this exact situation happened to me, here's what I did. And it doesn't always mean here's what I did, and it worked out right. It could be like here's what I did that totally backfired. Absolutely, absolutely. And and so, you know, you and you hear things from all these different perspectives, and I think that's really where it's special because we don't all think alike. You know, you have your own history, I have my own history, like my upbringing set my culture and my thought process and like how I look at the world one way. And sometimes the way that you look at something, I could just go, oh my goodness, I would have never handled it that way, but now I can see why maybe I need to put a little of that in the way I'm gonna handle things. So that's where I think that the real those two places I would say are the are where we've seen the most movement.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, love it, love it, love it. So, you know, I uh we have a similar client, uh, but in the uh security alarm industry. And one of the things we're seeing with them is I mean, that industry is just being rolled up and they're just selling their businesses left and right. And it's really incredible. I mean, one of the guys came to one of our groups and literally, you know, within six years sold the business. I don't know for how much, but lots of money. And uh and you know, and he literally said, when I first joined, I wasn't sure I could afford to buy the plane ticket. And I've learned so much from this group, it's enabled me to turn around and sell this company. And he's now retired off sailing into the sunset. And you know, he that's just one example. I'm sure you've seen a bunch of them as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, a lot of that. And I think that you know, the idea like I s I go back to when I think about the comments that I've heard from our membership, you know, one of the origin, you know, one of the early adapters to our organization, she said to me once she goes, Aaron, it's not even about me giving you the updates, it's me sitting down for 20 minutes and writing this stuff down once a month. Like that's what's made the change, you know, and it's moved the needle in my business just because we're you know, like the old adage of work, you know, on your business, not in your business, but it's more than that because I think like if you pull away from it and look at it from a different perspective and kind of sit down with it, and it kind of forces you to do that, it can really help people organize their thoughts and think about like, okay, what do I want to do and what are the things I need to address? What are the things that I can leave behind? So it has been uh it's been really interesting, and you know, it's it's interesting to think about like where the opportunities lie in this space and trying to figure out how to I you know I have one question for you though, right? So one of the things that we do um is is we facilitate with you know, we we facilitate, we provide facilitation, sort of. So we utilize someone who has some sort of vested interest in the industry usually who will help us, we train them on facilitation and we kind of get them up to speed and then they run the group. But a lot of the groups are self-facilitated. So how do you find that you're able to keep those groups? Because without, you know, if I say Mo, you're gonna be the facilitator this year, you stop sending meeting invites, you stop sending agenda, nobody, you know, it's hard to keep people in that role unless there's a vested interest, more so than just a it helps me. Like, how have you found to get people in the self-moderated role to work very well?
SPEAKER_01:You know what? I mean, it really works well in YPO and in EO, and it doesn't really work that well in many other organizations. Um, I think what EO and YPO have uniquely created is a peer-to-peer culture where it's it's it's it's all led by expectations of your peers and not letting them down. And and you know, commitment is taken very seriously. And if you're late, you buy dinner, and if you miss a meeting, you kick could be kicked out. But that is the culture of both of those organizations, and it is so deeply rooted. Whereby, you know, if a new organization says we want to do these peer groups, they really don't have that culture, they don't have that ethos, it's not part of the entire membership process, and so these people don't know about it even before they joined. Whereas, you know, you join EO and YPO, and one of the first things they're telling you is, and you're gonna be in a peer group and it's gonna change your life, but you better be committed because if you can't be, don't even join.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Right, essentially, and you got to put your money where your mouth is, exactly, exactly, and that's where you know, like for us, we're kind of I'm down the road with you know, my wife homeschools our kids. Um, you know, I'm going, this would be a perfect thing for homeschool parents, like, you know, to have that network just once a month or by even twice a month, they might be able to and have this process and this, you know, there's there's really nothing that is formally existing for that. There's a couple of associations, you know, and so you you bring it into like I've done it in painting, and I'm like, well, there's so many different spaces that you know if you want to cut, you know, like everybody wants to sell this guru dream. It's like, why do you want to be a guru? Like, why do you have to tell you you're not any you're like, I don't need to feel special, right? Like, I don't have to be special to run a peer group, I can take everybody else and what makes them special, and just uh and bring that to the front, and and then we all rise. So that's where I think that the power of peer groups, and how well, you know, like I think about all the industries and all the businesses, and you know, I it's the same thing that you're thinking about. I mean, I know on a on a daily basis by starting this organization, but it's just an interesting concept. And then to think about, but then you go, okay, well, if I roll it out and I don't have professional facilitation, half these groups are probably gonna fall on their face.
SPEAKER_01:Well, somebody's gotta, somebody's gotta tighten the screws, somebody's gotta cross the T's and dot the I's. And whenever we have a new client that that doesn't have this kind of a program, we say, well, here's the administrative part of it. Do you want to do it? Do you want us to do it? But yeah, the groups, the groups that that are self-moderated certainly go through more training as well. So all the members go through training one day to learn the process and to bond and get to know each other. Then we do a training for the leaders every year, because every year there's a new leader. Um, and and in those chapters, they also have some sort of accountability. So they have meetings of the leaders. One of my clients, they take attendance at every single meeting because that's a telltale. Is the group working or not? Uh and so you know, there's there's a whole lot of uh support around it when it's self-run, but uh more and more today, especially given that people don't come from this long lineage of having done this, people want a professional facilitator, which is which is really uh great for us because that's what we do. Precisely. Precisely. So that is that is great. Uh Aaron Moore, what a great conversation. What do you think the possibilities are if you were to just kind of you know, blue sky? What are the possibilities? What what could be the impact on this on this lovely planet of ours if in fact we could get to a billion people in these groups?
SPEAKER_00:That's a big question, right? I mean, a billion people. Um you know. I certainly think that from the perspective of how we treat other people, it would make a huge difference, right? Because you, you know, it certainly w raises the awareness in a how you speak to other people impacts them, right? Because that's one of the things that we really focus on is and how you your reactions to things that you hear or see can impact other people, you know. And I think that just un you know, having that um, you know, the empathetic approach versus a sympathetic approach, right? So like I don't you don't want my sympathy, you want me to understand that I too, you know, like I think about you know, like that white man can't jump. I always think about when Rosie Perez says to him, I want you to say, I too know what it feels like to be thirsty, not get me a glass of water, you know. And I think about that approach sometimes, um, you know, where it's like, you know, we don't need to have sympathy for people, but just to understand. And you know, it's a non-judgmental kind of way of just saying, hey, this is where, you know, and look, none of us are perfect. We make lots of, you know, I make mistakes every day, you make mistakes every day, and we're just always we're humans trying to get better. So yeah, I think that really that looking at things through a different lens, I mean, it would have an enormous impact on everything from you know the interpersonal relationships to you know the political landscape, quite frankly.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you for that. That is uh that is absolutely uh part of my thinking, and that you know, these groups become so tightly knit and so close, and people share things they haven't shared with their best friends or their families, and they say you guys are closer than my best friends, and sometimes from my family, which which was not the goal, but the point is the sandbox rules that we have found have enabled these groups to thrive and these relationships to be that powerful. And what what I'm hearing you say is we go through life bumbling about unaware of all the stupid stuff we do and say and the consequences, and we wonder why our relationships aren't where we want them to be. And in these groups, the relationships are incredible.
SPEAKER_00:Do you think that that has something to do with the removing the removal of the vested interest?
SPEAKER_01:That's part of it. Well, you can't be in conflict of interest with anybody in the group. You're not gonna have your mother-in-law in there, you're not gonna have your business partner.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Well, and I don't have to like, yeah, you don't I don't have to say face or I don't have an ulterior relationship.
SPEAKER_01:Of course, correct, of course, there's there's all of that, and and it still teaches some skills like you know, be curious instead of certain. And because if you're certain, you're judging, and if you're curious, you're learning. And when I learn your position, I'm far less likely to judge you because now I understand why you do what you do, and you talk about like the impact on leaderships of organizations.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, like reduce like reducing or removing that dogmatic approach of like, I know what's best for my organization, you know. Like, who wants to follow a jackass like that? Like, I just don't, you know, and it's been like that. Was like what we saw. Like, that's what you know, your parents were taught, you know, like, and it's like mistakes get made in your organization, and who wants a leader who's just gonna jump down your throat? Like, ask some questions, understand, like, hey, what where did how did we get to here? And then how do we figure out like, was that the right move? Or if it wasn't the right move, like, how do we readjust, you know, refocus the lens that we're looking at this through so we do it differently in the future? And who wouldn't want to follow someone like that versus the guy who just jumps down your throat and says, Why would you do it like that? This is how we do it here, you know, it just doesn't make sense. So and and it certainly is a an impulse that we all have to fight, probably, right? Like it's something that, you know, especially when you lead organizations, it's like, oh my gosh, just do it like this. What's wrong? You know, and and and obviously that's not that's counterproductive to the overall growth of the organization. And so, like, being part of these groups is really a place for you to hone that skill of like that kind of empathetic, non-judgmental, curious approach. And and and so you're you're honing that with your peers, and then you're bringing that in, you know, to bring this whole thing full circle, you bring that back into your organization, you bring that back into your family, and you bring that back into if you're raising children or your relationship with your significant other or spouse. You know, the all those things, if you can, you know, if you can connect the dots effectively, I mean it just leads to makes your life better and makes the lives of those around you better.
SPEAKER_01:Here, here. That is exactly our our goal here is to make everyone's lives better. Aaron Moore, thank you for this amazing conversation. Thank you to our audience for listening. And as a reminder, podcast reviews have a real impact on visibility. So if you like this episode, please leave a like or a review so you can help others find the show. And finally, you could find all our shows on our website, International Facilitators Organization.com. Thank you and have a wonderful day.
