Ashley Carroll: The ROI of Relationships

In this episode of Canopy Practice Success, host KC Brothers sits down with Ashley Carroll, founder of Operations House, to explore the balance between people, process, and profit.

Ashley’s journey is one of grit, growth, and giving back. From growing up below the poverty line to leading a purpose-driven operations consultancy, she’s built her career on helping firms create equitable, scalable, and human-centered systems.

Together, KC and Ashley discuss:

• Why psychological safety is the cornerstone of productive, profitable teams
• How to identify and eliminate single points of failure in your firm
• What happens when leaders stop equating busyness with success
• The systems every modern accounting firm needs to support sustainable growth
• Why firm culture isn’t “soft stuff” — it’s the foundation of everything that works

Ashley brings a refreshing mix of operational expertise and empathy, reminding us that success in modern accounting isn’t just about efficiency. It’s about building businesses that people actually want to be part of.

Whether you’re a firm owner, team leader, or operations professional, this conversation will leave you inspired and equipped to lead with more clarity, compassion, and confidence.

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Transcript

KC Brothers (00:01)
It's time for another episode of Canopy Practice Success. I am here today with Ashley Carroll. Ashley Carroll launched Operations House to help accountants and B2B service founders reclaim control over their businesses, focusing on streamlining operations, reducing burnout, that's a big one, and building systems around people and profitability. You don't have to sacrifice one for the other.

Her background spans nonprofit accounting, operational leadership, and building growth enabling systems that cut late payments from 85 % to just 7 % within a month. Holy cow, Ashley, I'm so excited to have you today.

Ashley Carroll (00:43)
Hi, thank you so much for having me.

KC Brothers (00:45)
Yeah. I mean, your intro also didn't even tease. So for listeners, I talk with our guests a little bit before we actually hit record and Ashley and I hit on some meaty stuff that we are both so excited to talk to you about. And her intro doesn't quite do that justice. So, ⁓ you established operations house for a few reasons. Let's start there.

Ashley Carroll (01:09)
Yeah, I truly believe that there are enough resources to go around for everyone and

KC Brothers (01:20)
not just to meet baseline, but to exceed things, to prosper, to not just survive, but thrive.

Ashley Carroll (01:30)
Yes, and ultimately, I guess I can zoom all the way back out that like, my mission is to democratize wealth building across the world. In any way, I'm not talking about accounting owners, specifically accounting firms. I'm talking all humans. I think when we look at the resources in the world today, there is enough for everyone if it was shared equitably. And

My role in this life is to take whatever talents and skills I have to help contribute to making this a more plain even playing field. So it got a degree in accounting because I grew up below the poverty line and I knew I wanted to at least earn a living for myself. My mom taught us that you have to take care of yourself first. I knew that. So

I'm going to get a job that's going to take care of myself so I can help take care of others. I don't know what that's going to look like. All of my graduating class, 95%, went to the big four. They had their next five years planned out. Those companies were paying for those extra degrees and CPA exams. I was not someone who had the money, who, let's say, I didn't like that experience. I could back out and repay that money. It was going to be a really big commitment.

I didn't come from an accounting family, I just wasn't prepared in the way my peers were to jump into what was being described to me as a tough few years that would ultimately pay off. ⁓

KC Brothers (03:02)
Yeah.

Yeah, you put in your time. I was in

a similar position, but I found it a little later. It took me a while to graduate. I had fun. I traveled and did a few things and ultimately landed on a degree in economics because I knew that it would provide me a good future. ⁓ It was also a really short major by the time I decided on it. But as a part of that, a lot of my classmates were

Ashley Carroll (03:25)
Hmm

KC Brothers (03:40)
in what was called the management consulting club. And they were wanting to go to those big, I think it's three, ECG, Bain, right? But

Ashley Carroll (03:48)
Yep.

KC Brothers (03:49)
similar lifestyle. And it hit me upon graduation. I was a little older. I wasn't 21, 22, your typical speed through four years, right? I knew I wanted a family and I was graduating single, which was fine. But I knew that if I entered that kind of a lifestyle,

Ashley Carroll (03:52)
Okay. ⁓

KC Brothers (04:10)
that that choice would have tremendous ⁓ ripple effects on my life that I knew I didn't want to have. So I pivoted kind of last

minute in my last semester and started interviewing at different types of companies, which led me into tech.

Ashley Carroll (04:27)
That is so interesting. And to have the wherewithal to one, separate from the seed, which is so challenging. I mean, because when somebody defines success for you, and then so many people take that and accept that definition, it's challenging to go a different route.

KC Brothers (04:40)
Yeah.

Ashley Carroll (04:51)
And at the same time, it feels unfair that you have to choose.

KC Brothers (04:57)
And to your point about like there being enough to go around I want to say I heard a quote recently and I want to say it's from Stephen Covey where he talks about too often we see success as a pizza and you get a slice and I get a slice and Then there's not enough to go around. He's like success is a pizza factory There is an endless amount of pizza to be given And and just embracing that more but also I think

in our conversation before you also talked about like, what are we doing to open the doors for others? I have a quick story. You have so much to share. But when we were talking, I thought of ⁓ an experience I had ⁓ early in my career. I was pregnant with my first child. And ⁓ I worked for a natural pessimist.

Ashley Carroll (05:34)
Please? No, I love that. ahead.

KC Brothers (05:52)
And he said this to me in my initial interview with him and I am a natural optimist. And I remember that peeing my interest like that's so interesting that he would share that with me. Why is he sharing that? And it proved to be the most difficult employment opportunity I've ever had and made it hard for me to get pregnant. was pregnant, but then like chose to see it through. and I was going somewhere that I'll edit this out.

Ashley Carroll (06:22)
No, it's

okay. But you were you had he said he was a natural pessimist and you were a natural optimist. And that was really difficult for you. How did it prevent him from opening doors potentially?

KC Brothers (06:33)
⁓ here's where I was going with that. So in exiting that company, I ended up in those final months, I was reporting to someone else that it was silly the way they chose to, but it saved my sanity. And so was grateful for it. But I remember talking to my husband when we came up with this phrase and he and I keep talking about how we want to spin up a business around this idea that it is always cheaper.

Ashley Carroll (06:49)
Mmm.

Yep.

KC Brothers (07:03)
to be kind. It was cheaper for them to accept the fact that I was being open with them and saying, I am going to take 12 weeks paid maternity on your dime and I am not going to return. It was cheaper for them to be like, that is okay, KC we will provide for you there and we will avoid any lawsuit that we might potentially have to deal with because you're a protected class. That's just one situation. But like my husband and I have continued to see

applications of this concept in so many areas that it's not just cheaper, but it's also profitable to be kind.

Ashley Carroll (07:40)
Yes,

yes.

I played with this so many times in my four years of dreaming of operations houses. I was like trying to build this like, you know, like empathy is, is, the next goal, you know, like whatever, like kindness, the ROI on kindness. just did a panel on the ROI on like relationships. ROR is the new ROI. Like return on relationships is the new return on investment. Like it just.

KC Brothers (08:08)
I love that. I haven't heard that.

Ashley Carroll (08:13)
The proof is in the pudding, not only in being a CEO of my own accounting firm, but seeing all the businesses that we were working with who were like tapping into using me as their COO because for some reason, accounting firms are really scared to hire non-client facing people. And I get that the reason is because you don't think there's going to be an ROI on them, but there is like, because that person has the capacity to be kind.

because they are not swallowed up by all the technical work that you have probably overburdened yourself and your team with, and all of the working on the business that you have been avoiding and ignoring that has backlogged. That doesn't give you time and space to just sit down and be a human. But to your point, one, not only is it the right thing to do, not only is it the less expensive thing to do,

Not only is it the more profitable thing to do, it's just the humane thing to do. I don't think anybody starts a business thinking like, I'm going to try to screw over every person who I can along the way. But you get into a self-protective scarcity mindset. And if you don't have somebody

Who is capable, willing, and able to remind you, hold you accountable to your values, remind you that there's enough for everyone, remind you that things take time, remind you who you are, why you're starting things, remind you how you want to build things, not just what you want to build. Then it's easy to get trapped there.

KC Brothers (10:02)
Yeah. ⁓ As you were talking, I was reminded of some research I read about a long time ago. So I tried to do a quick Google search. ⁓ And this is just what's in the AI overview. But I Googled research on the impact of good bedside manner, because I'd remembered this and how that impacts. And you're talking about ROR, return on relationships.

Ashley Carroll (10:11)
Yeah.

Thanks.

Thanks.

KC Brothers (10:24)
It summarized that research indicates that healthcare professionals with strong bedside manner characterized by empathy, clear communication and respect can improve patient compliance with treatment, reduce anxiety, enhance overall healing. I think the direct application here for accountants is ⁓ good bedside manner in quotes here, right? Whatever that looks like, good client relationships.

can decrease headaches for you, increase client satisfaction, can decrease time spent chasing down things, can increase willingness to pay ahead, to get on a retainer, to get on a subscription, value-based pricing, all of that. I just felt like that was really applicable there. But I also think, as you were talking too, there's this element of treating a person as a holistic human being too. You...

When we can perform in our distinct spheres best, we are positively impacted in general. 60 hour work weeks, 80 hour work weeks do not have the level of impact on production that ⁓ good morale at work, healthy marital relationship, time with family, time outdoors. All of those things have a greater ROI.

than these optics, then butts in seats, then ⁓ time clocked. You're able to focus more, do more deep work. You're not cranky from a lack of sleep or from a bad marriage that you're then showing up to work for because you're not showing up to your marriage.

Ashley Carroll (12:03)
Yes, 100%. That's what really confused me when they were describing the future I was about to sign up for for the next five years. I viewed myself as having put in my dues. I was the second person in my family after my mom to go to college and get a degree.

KC Brothers (12:10)
you

Ashley Carroll (12:26)
And that for me was this is success. I've done all the work. I went to school, I got good grades, I got into a good school, I continued to get good grades, I chose the quote unquote right major and now I should be able to get a job that pays me well enough that I can afford a home I'm comfortable in, food that I want to eat, hobbies that I enjoy.

to spend time with my family, to start a relationship in a family if I so choose, to travel if I would like, and that I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, that I'm also saving for retirement, that if I do choose to have children, they have safe care that I can afford, that we are eating nutritious food, but also that we are not limited to not having treats and the small delights in life that just bring us joy.

people, the full human. And I know that when you start a business, I don't know any business owner who doesn't start it so that they can't take care of themselves as a full human. Right? And so it's natural that all of your employees would want that too. And we have to stop thinking of these hierarchical systems so much and think about the whole system.

KC Brothers (13:38)
Yeah.

Ashley Carroll (13:56)
If I'm sick but I have things on my plate that no one else can do

The whole system crumbles. That's true for you as the owner. That's true for the intern. There should never be a single point of failure on any one person. That is one of the number one stressors of a professional service employee. That they are the single point of failure for responsibility, whether that's a client relationship, knowing how a piece of technology works, knowing the password to something. There's this balance of internal controls.

KC Brothers (14:09)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Carroll (14:38)
where we start to get very robotic in our thinking and we start to lose the humanity of the individual. And that's where Operation House comes back in to say no. When something is both psychologically safe, it will naturally be profitable if we set it up efficiently and effectively. But if we veer just to it being as profitable and as lean as we can, you're totally eliminating

the human that's going to be impacted by that, both internally, externally, and the ripple effect, as you're saying, to that, if I come into my job and I have unclear expectations, I don't get positive feedback ever. ⁓ You know, I don't have anyone to ask questions to. I am a single point of failure. All day long, I just feel beaten down. All day long, I feel like I have failed my company, because let's be clear,

Everyone comes into work wanting to do a good job. Nobody comes in saying like, here, screw this up for you.

KC Brothers (15:40)
⁓ my gosh. Seriously, I have said

this so many times on the podcast. Adults in general want to perform. Want to, yes, want to achieve something, want to feel proud, want to, in fact, ⁓ I've been listening to a lot of things by Arthur C. Brooks. He's an author and Harvard professor. And he says that humans are made for progress, not arrival.

Ashley Carroll (15:53)
Well!

Yeah.

KC Brothers (16:10)
We all want to progress. So let's, let's lean into that. Let's let our direct reports, our peers progress. Let's give each other some grace. like, again, and I think that's where too, have you heard this about Olympians? Where once they win a gold medal, let me see if I can find this really quick. ⁓ post gold medal depression. ⁓ it pre-filled it for me.

Ashley Carroll (16:20)
Mm.

Cleanies.

KC Brothers (16:35)
⁓ refers to the feelings of depression, anxiety, and emptiness. it's called gold medal syndrome. ⁓ that some athletes experience after achieving a major accomplishment, like winning the Olympic gold medal. Where they don't know what. Yes. Cause it's not the arrival. And so it's like, I feel like, ⁓ we still love you. people who are addicted to work, people who love working several hours who we all show up differently in life.

Ashley Carroll (16:48)
It was about the journey.

KC Brothers (17:05)
⁓ but I wonder if that's what's, what's fueling them as, or, or, or maybe what's confusing to them or disembodying is like, I haven't, arrived and I want to arrive. And it's like, no, it's about progress. even a podcast of his, I, an interview of his that I listened to recently made me want to rethink my new year's goals. Instead of setting goals, I want to first of the year, look, I can say, how have I progressed this year?

Ashley Carroll (17:18)
I love that. ⁓

I love that and I love using what's now I'm going to Google a little bit. ⁓ what is it called

All like the 2020 was the first year I did 20 things he times for your reflection. It's a free Reflection

I'll find it and get the link for you. But this is essentially how I started building out a lot of what I do for my business. And it's where I start with a lot of owners is like, you know, the eight dimensions of wellness. We don't just and that's for your whole team. How is your team feeling socially, physically, spiritually, ⁓ you know, all the dimensions? Because, go ahead.

KC Brothers (18:11)
Mmm.

For reference, the dimensions

are physical, emotional, social, intellectual, spiritual, occupational, environmental, and financial. That's a lot. We'll put those in the show notes or something.

Ashley Carroll (18:42)
Yeah, and you can start by, and it can be private, right? But to start to reflect on those areas of your life. Now, we're going to come to the occupational, but you as a business owner, all of those areas really impact how you show up and how you're able to serve your team and serve your clients and do all of the things that you want to do. ⁓

KC Brothers (19:06)
Yes. ⁓

Ashley Carroll (19:10)
So if your occupational is up on the 10, because you haven't arrived yet and you're putting all your energy there, but you can see in social, physical, and spiritual, environmental, all these other different places that you're lacking, that's where I'm going to want to start with you. Because you've already poured too much into your business. Now I'm going to ask you where you can delegate a little so we can back off of that a bit. And that's going to be our operational approach.

KC Brothers (19:25)
Yeah.

Yes, yes.

Yes, to your point of not having, ⁓ how did you put it, a point of failure? A point of failure with an individual. ⁓ We like to be, I think I see this a lot with accountants and maybe you do too, but the reason why people enter that kind of a work environment with those expectations and maybe even in consulting too is just like.

Ashley Carroll (19:45)
A single point of failure.

and

KC Brothers (20:05)
Maybe a certain level of wanting to achieve a certain level of self-importance of regard. And it's interesting because, recently in my own professional development, my, my boss asked me to think about how, what makes me feel smart, how I feel smart. And the, was like, I've got an answer for you. I feel smartest when.

Ashley Carroll (20:20)
Okay.

KC Brothers (20:31)
I get to share information when I get to talk. I honestly, I think that's why I love the podcast so much. And she's like, KC, I want you to think of other ways you feel smart too. Cause there are other ways to feel smart. Um, and other ways to, um, show, get regard. And I've started to look more in like when we have meetings or when I see people that I have high regard for, I know like our CFO, example, if I'm ever in a meeting with her, she is a woman of few words.

Ashley Carroll (20:36)
I'm going go play in the morning.

So

KC Brothers (20:59)
But I don't regard her less because she speaks less. I don't think she's dumb because she speaks less. And so it's really made me try to think about, how can I feel smart? Where do I... Anyway.

Ashley Carroll (21:14)
No, I like this. really touches on to another point that you were making with another guest about the strengths finders and this goes back to the point that we're making about not assuming that people are showing up to to fuck up your day like, you know, they're not showing up to not give a hundred percent. Employees are doing it right.

KC Brothers (21:20)
Ugh, I do love that.

Yeah. Intentionally. There might be things

going on in life, but ignoring them, sweeping them under the rug is just going to extend the way they are showing up at work.

Ashley Carroll (21:47)
If I don't acknowledge that my team member is... Let's let's let let me even take it back one more. I was going to say if I don't acknowledge that my team member isn't participating in our weekly stand up, then you know, blank blank blank. But let me back it up too. If I don't see that my teammate isn't participating as their normal self in our weekly stand up and approach them with curiosity,

as opposed to judgment.

Anger. Anything else. Lame. Unless I'm calm and curious and open-minded to what they have to say, I shouldn't be approaching them at that point.

KC Brothers (22:25)
Lame.

give you a real answer either. They'll be backed into a corner. They'll get defensive.

Ashley Carroll (22:38)
Exactly, what's the point?

And I want to know that you and your boyfriend broke up that week. I do. I do. You know why? Because you have three calls with some of my most important clients and you are not a single point of failure. Although you feel 100 % responsible because I know you showed up to work today anyway, because you think that this is stupid, but this is a form of disenfranchised grief. This is a part of getting down to the humanity of stuff.

This isn't something that you can put on your PTO because it just gets down to you can't list everything, right? But it's, you have grace here and there's a process in place that is psychologically safe so that if for some reason you cannot perform at your typical level,

that you are not shamed.

retaliated against, minimized.

Bye next.

KC Brothers (23:53)
Mm.

Ashley Carroll (23:55)
There are resources in place to help you because that's what it means to provide a psychologically safe workplace. It's not your employees responsibility to show up and create this environment that they're going to excel in. It's your responsibility. And that's a lot. I get that. It's a lot of emotional labor and that's why you need someone to help you. And that's what I'm here for. I'm not saying it's all on you.

KC Brothers (24:15)
leaving.

Ashley Carroll (24:24)
but to ignore it is not the solution either.

KC Brothers (24:27)
Yeah.

I feel like you've got to be a Simon Sinek fan. Right? Leaguers eat last. He also, saw something on social media recently that he posted that I wish I could remember exactly what it was, but he's just brilliant in this space and like improving that this works, that this is the model that should be followed, that, that performance increases, productivity, profit, all of those things. This is worth doing.

Ashley Carroll (24:31)
I love him. Just so Why?

It does.

Yes. And it's scary because if you... It's scary because it's a can of worms. Well, we all want to think that we're providing an amazing experience first and foremost. So one, it can be really difficult if you go to an owner because they might have a gut feeling that something's off, but they might think it's something else. And then you come to them and you say, actually, your team feels underappreciated, underpaid. And they're like,

KC Brothers (24:58)
Well it should be Why is it a can of worms? What do mean?

Ashley Carroll (25:23)
but I pay market wages and like I pay 100 % of health insurance. Like this is a knife in the gut to me. that, you know, I, there's such a difference in perspective that that can open such a can of worms because not having consistent historical communication leads to surprises. ⁓ And that's the can of worms. Now, if you are really

gut checked in with your team, you're close, you you know when there's problems. And the problem is mostly that like things are just chaotic and we can't nail down a process. That's one thing. But when it comes to these more sensitive things like money and time off and my humanity and things that aren't necessarily ⁓ openly invited into the conversation by

the people responsible for creating that environment, it can be difficult to bring them up even though they're so important to discuss as part of the story and the context of everything that's going on.

KC Brothers (26:32)
Yeah, yeah.

The thing with that though is I don't want people to feel like it's if they need to make the change. I want them to feel optimistic about like, you're right. I'm seeing the light. I'm going to do this. But that's not how it goes. People hold on to the way they've done it because it's comfortable. they're like, but I know my people are pretty, but you don't know what you don't know. You don't know that.

Ashley Carroll (27:00)
Thanks.

KC Brothers (27:02)
I'll give myself as an example because I know myself intimately, obviously, not to toot my own horn or anything, but I don't know anybody else's life. I have become passionate about, I would say honestly, innately, I've been passionate about a lot of things, these like eight dimensions of wellness. I didn't know this model until today, but I've really doubled down on it recently because I have a mother who just got diagnosed with bipolar too.

Ashley Carroll (27:12)
It's really good.

KC Brothers (27:33)
And I'm like, ⁓ this is in my genes. I'm going to do everything I can to mitigate this. wake up, my alarm goes off at four 20. I have three kids too, by the way.

Ashley Carroll (27:43)
Okay.

KC Brothers (27:44)
My alarm goes off at four 20 so that I can be at the gym working out at four 55. And I work out for a full hour. I get my blood pumping. get strong. I come home. I feed myself a nutritious breakfast.

Ashley Carroll (27:58)
Yeah.

KC Brothers (28:00)
My husband and I, while the kids are still asleep, have a little devotional. We read something, we discuss something, we pray. ⁓ I then have a morning with my children and I get my oldest off to school

and ⁓ I come home and I make dinner. We have a home cooked meal and we sit around a dinner table together. We enjoy activities together. ⁓

All of those things, I firmly believe, make it easier for me to show up as who I am and have the internal brand I have at Canopy ⁓ produce what I produce, solve the problems that I solve. It's all interconnected. And I love those eight dimensions. That's new to me. Thank you.

Ashley Carroll (28:54)
Yeah, I mean, it matters so much. And I know that it's hard to think about. If you have a team of five, you're like, my God, that's 40 dimensions. They're adults, let them handle their dimensions. It's there. Give them the space, make a space where you're they're not just reporting.

KC Brothers (29:05)
Yeah, but give them the opportunities.

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Carroll (29:15)
checking their boxes as your work done. The easiest thing that you can do is set up one question weekly form. How are you entering work this week? Put a feelings wheel. Let them choose a feeling. Put a rating scale. Let them choose one to five. I don't like one to ten because everybody chooses seven.

1 to 5, you know, if you put a 3, I'll consider that neutral, okay, but a 2 or a 4 will tell me a lot more than a 4, you know, 4 6 on a 1 to 10 scale. So I like to do 1 to 5. And how are you feeling leaving at the end of this week? Like check in with them on an emotional scale at least once during the week and you'll start to see patterns.

on people's work and performance and how they're showing up and how they're feeling emotionally if they're being honest. And it you'll see like with any machine or you know system that if you provide it what it needs like we let computers shut down. So like if you let them have what they need to take care of the full system then they'll run.

amazing when you put them in the yard to run. But like people want their employees to innovate at the top level, you know, all the time. strategy, customer advisory, client relationships. I mean, this is top level stuff. This is this is emotional labor on top of your technical knowledge on top of, you know, ⁓ emotional intelligence. This is all these things that you're asking people to do. But if you're not giving them any resources,

to pour into themselves, then they're operating at the base level of psychological safety. It's not that they're not gonna innovate, they're just gonna innovate from that level. That means that they're gonna find natural shortcuts, they're gonna find AI that they're not gonna triple check the work of, they're not gonna not innovate, they're gonna try to meet your demands because people want to do well, but they can only do it with what they have and what are you providing them? Okay, is it...

KC Brothers (31:20)
Yeah.

Ashley Carroll (31:27)
a living wage, is it a place where they can share in some capacity what their emotional well-being status is? Is that taken into consideration or is it just something that you're counting? Because then don't count it, then nobody cares. The easiest way to ruin trust with people is to ask for them to be vulnerable and do nothing with that information.

KC Brothers (31:53)
Yeah.

Ashley Carroll (31:56)
And then think about what you would want and what you want just as a human, but what you wanted as an employee, because these things don't have to be expensive. A lot of times it's free. A lot of times it's flexibility. It's cheaper to be kind. There is, it's profitable to be psychologically safe. Like,

KC Brothers (32:10)
It's cheaper to be kind.

Yeah. It is profitable

to be psychologically safe. I love it. ⁓ Yes. Ashley, thank you so much. We could go on and on you and I, I mean, this is ⁓ a topic I'm passionate about. I'm so impressed with you with taking the path as an entrepreneur to help solve these problems. I just get, I feel like I'm just on the benches cheering you on and critiquing or the crowd or whatever, but you're doing it. You're on the front lines. So thank you, Ashley.

Ashley Carroll (32:29)
We know.

No, thank you. Everyone's in the arena, so I appreciate it.