The Cost of “Always On” Culture, with Amy Vetter

Burnout isn’t a personal failure. It’s a system problem, and accounting feels it first.

 In this episode, CPA and mindfulness leader Amy Vetter challenges the profession’s “always on” culture and explains why pushing harder is often the fastest path to disengagement.

Amy unpacks what burnout really looks like inside accounting firms, why high performers are most at risk, and how leaders unintentionally reinforce the behaviors they claim to want to fix. This isn’t a conversation about bubble baths or vague self-care. It’s about boundaries, leadership modeling, delegation, and the real business cost of ignoring mental health.

Drawing on decades at the intersection of accounting, technology, and mindfulness, Amy shows how firm culture actually changes, and why well-being and profitability are not opposites. If you’re a partner, manager, or advisor feeling stretched thin (or watching your team quietly burn out), this episode offers a sharper lens on what needs to change first.

You’ll hear:

• Why burnout often starts with people who care the most
• How “always available” expectations erode trust and retention
• What leaders must do before wellness programs actually work
• How healthier teams drive better client relationships and revenue

Connect with Amy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amyvettercpa/

https://www.amyvetter.com/

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Transcript

KC Brothers (00:00)

Welcome to another episode of Canopy Practice Success. I am your host, Casey Brothers. And today I am excited and thrilled to be joined by Amy Vetter, a CPA, Yogi keynote speaker, and the CEO of the B3 Method Institute. Amy has built her career at the intersection of accounting, technology, and mindfulness. She's the author of Business, Balance, and Bliss, and Disconnect to Connect.

She also hosts the Breaking Beliefs podcast and is a leading voice on how firm leaders can align business results with purpose and wellbeing. In this conversation, we'll explore how the B3 method, business plus balance equals bliss, is transforming firm culture, how leaders can model balance and authenticity, and what the future of advisory work looks like when human connection takes place. Amy, it is so nice to have you.

Amy Vetter (00:59)

It's so nice to be here. Thank you.

KC Brothers (01:01)

Yeah, there's a lot in that introduction. Like I don't even know, I don't even know where to start. Um, I do know where to start. Um.

Amy Vetter (01:04)

Yes.

KC Brothers (01:11)

There's a stat that I looked at a while ago, and you might know the most recent update of this, of how accountants are high on the list of professionals, ⁓ I hate saying this, who are depressed or ⁓ other really sad things. ⁓ Again, I haven't looked at this in a while, ⁓ but I think I've...

Amy Vetter (01:26)

you

KC Brothers (01:39)

after spending a lot of time talking to accountants, talking to consultants, talking to people like you, you have this connection between mindfulness and accounting. And I think people who would be unfamiliar with the industry would be like, how is Amy making a career of that? I don't know if your neighbors feel that way or like, Amy found this funny niche. How is she doing this? But to me, the connection is so distinct and clear and I'm so grateful for it. I would love even just to start off our conversation today.

with maybe some awesome turnaround stories of winds that you've seen where someone was on a cliff, ⁓ metaphorically or literally, you know, mean, even if not literally, we know it's not, but you know what I mean. ⁓ And how you helped them.

see that this intersection that we're talking about of their profession and mindfulness bring them back. And I'd just love a quick story. I think that would be a great place to start.

Amy Vetter (02:42)

God, I have so

many going through my head. And just recently too. Yeah, and I love that you started that, that most people don't get it. That is true. ⁓ You know, a lot of people think, yeah, they're like, people don't care about mindfulness. Not true. Like, you know, so ⁓ I have to just kind of

KC Brothers (02:45)

I'm sure.

Especially, yeah, I'm sure like your neighbor down the street or your child's parent. Yeah.

Amy Vetter (03:08)

ignore it when I hear those things because it is so relevant, not only for accountants, but in the business world, period. You know, there was a global workplace study for 2025 and 61 % of workers globally feel burnout. And so it's, you know, not just this profession, it's a human condition. And

KC Brothers (03:17)

Yes.

Amy Vetter (03:34)

You know, there's definitely circumstances in our world right now that cause it, but it's always been there. That's why there are mindfulness practices. It's been a human condition for thousands of years of people. What I come down to is just trying to find joy again.

We lose that feeling of joy without realizing it because we have so many demands in our life and between work and home that sometimes it's hard to identify like what brings us joy. And it's an amazing thing that it's such a hard question for adults to answer.

KC Brothers (04:09)

Yeah.

Amy Vetter (04:15)

And so I recently, run retreats ⁓ twice a year right now. I would love to do it more. So maybe in the future and had, you know, and they're small retreats purposely so that we can really go deep.

into this work. And what I've really done over time is, I am a CPA, I've brought my yoga background of over 20 years into this corporate environment because this philosophy rings true no matter who you are, what you do.

And some current things that I've heard recently, especially at this retreat and people that I coach, is we have one thing happening in our profession that immediately people blame PE for their unhappiness. so PE, yeah, because private equity came into their firm, things changed. ⁓

KC Brothers (05:18)

They blame private equity.

Amy Vetter (05:25)

you know, and so forth. And so I hear it a lot. And I let people talk about it because it is a change. ⁓ However, you're going to hit changes if another CPA firm acquires you and it's it's not P.E. or you change a job. You know, you get a new partner in the door, a new boss. There are always moments in our life we have to reprove ourselves and to change. And it becomes harder.

KC Brothers (05:29)

Interesting.

Yes.

Amy Vetter (05:54)

as we get older because we're an expert in what we do. We've already proven ourselves and we don't like to go back and have to prove ourselves again.

It's like the ego that comes up in us of, know, I'm gonna protect myself here because I know I'm worthy. I'm not gonna have someone tell me I've got to prove myself. I don't think in my entire career, I have had a moment in time where I haven't had to prove myself.

KC Brothers (06:05)

Mm-hmm.

Amy Vetter (06:26)

or even to maintain where I'm at. And so if you've had those moments in your career, call yourself fortunate, give yourself gratitude for having those moments, but life is not predictable. And so one of the things ⁓ that has been helpful in these conversations is instead of looking to the outside and blaming outside circumstances for how I feel,

And that is our usual feeling about anything new that comes our way, whether that's technology, whether that's PE, whether that's, you know, a new boss. What we'll do is blame the outside instead of taking a beat, what I call just taking a pause and allow yourself to assess what can I control versus what I can't control.

And when we actually take those moments to pause and step back and really think about what we're saying versus what's real, we have a perception of reality versus what reality is. There are a number of things we can control and do. It's whether we're willing ourselves to give ourselves those boundaries and time to do them because they're different.

KC Brothers (07:38)

.

Amy Vetter (07:51)

They're different than what we've done before, the path we've gone before. So if we keep pushing against resistance, it's not gonna go anywhere for us and we're just gonna still be frustrated and still be blaming. But the thing that is true, I can quit my job, but I take myself to the next job. So if I haven't worked on myself first.

I'm probably going to bring those same things to my next job and the next job and the next job until I actually am 100 % honest with myself of what is my 100 % responsibility? What can I control? What can't I control? And what things am I allowing to get in the way of my own progress? And maybe that's just that I'm tired, that I'm exhausted, that...

I don't want to change, that I'm not feeling confident. All of those things are real. We just have to get to the point where we're okay to admit it.

that it's happening so we can break through and get to the other side. And when we do, know, we are, you know, skilled people, we're smart people. When we actually allow that to open up, you know, the opening and change that occurs is just profound, but it's allowing yourself to be open to the messages and to listen to yourself and not push down.

KC Brothers (09:13)

Yeah.

Amy Vetter (09:20)

you know, things in your intuition that you know, you're just not willing to listen.

KC Brothers (09:27)

Yeah. So, um, I am a, I'm a part of the 5 a.m. club. I really, I'm, I'm up at 4 20 so that I can be in the 5 a.m. club. Um, and I say that hesitantly because I feel like that phrase has, for me at least, the perception of it is the bros, the sales guys. Um, and for me, it's just convenience. Um, uh,

Amy Vetter (09:46)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

KC Brothers (09:56)

We'll pull back the curtain a little bit on Casey, but my mom in the last six months was recently diagnosed with bipolar too.

Amy Vetter (10:06)

I'm sorry. Yeah, but it's actually a good thing to get a diagnosis as well. know. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

KC Brothers (10:08)

It is what it is. Thank you for it is difficult

Yes, a diagnosis is a relief really. But

what it's done for me as well is I've always been an early riser, even in college. I didn't fit in. Like I was at the gym at 6 a.m. in college as a freshman. 5 a.m. is a new level. I will say there were two years where I was miserable and I realized I needed to make that mental shift. And as soon as my mental shift and like, you know, this is just what time I wake up. Doesn't matter how

Poorly I slept, especially as my kids started growing up and sometimes even the three-year-old wakes me up in the middle of the night. As soon as I got over those things and just accepted for the night to go however it goes and still woke up and got to the gym, that changed things. also this layer of having my mother being diagnosed with this disease gave me added motivation to make sure that I was...

going to the gym because it isn't just about physical performance. It's now about mental performance as well. And there's so much data around that of the way you start your mornings, taking care of yourself. ⁓ If you are depleted, if your cup is depleted, you can't service your clients. You can't service your employees. ⁓ And I only give this as an example because my reality is really the only reality. know I don't mean to...

Amy Vetter (11:17)

Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

KC Brothers (11:41)

share this to toot my own horn by any means, but my husband and I are fortunate enough that we get to go to the gym together in the mornings, which is nice because that's also together time for he and I. And then we come home and we've got a solid hour where, um, we will read together, um, make breakfast, take a beat before the chaos of the day, before children, before work, before, um, the

Amy Vetter (11:53)

Yeah.

KC Brothers (12:11)

our Toyota Sienna needs maintenance and it's gonna, if we don't get it in soon, something's gonna happen, Amy, and we really need to get it in. But really, there's so much research right now around these types of practices and you can do, there's so many ways to execute, too. But the impact on your life is more than obvious. A multiplier, yeah, that's a great way to put it, too.

Amy Vetter (12:17)

Yes.

Yeah.

A multiplier. Mm-hmm.

KC Brothers (12:40)

Yeah.

Amy Vetter (12:42)

Yeah, it's, you know, when you need to lose weight, when you want to get in shape, a lot of times you hire a physical trainer and there's no difference with our mental health.

of whether it's books you read or self-help or getting a coach or a therapist, it is the same mental health and strength that's so important. Since you were vulnerable, I'll say the same. My mother died a year ago. ⁓ And when she died, we did not have a good relationship at that point.

which was very hard. However, you know, one of the biggest things, and I even said this when she died, is your mental health is a gift to everyone around you.

KC Brothers (13:35)

⁓ say that 10 times, please. I want my mother to understand that.

Amy Vetter (13:37)

And

yeah, and she would never get help, ⁓ you know, and it got to the point where I had to, my family, like just, you know, this is, I've got to protect where I want my family to go and I don't want it to be a generational ⁓ pattern anymore in the family. I wrote a book about this, which was called Disconnected Connect. ⁓

KC Brothers (13:43)

Yeah.

Yes. ⁓

Amy Vetter (14:05)

But it's never a path I wanted to be on. I didn't want it to get to that point, obviously. But when we take care of ourselves, it isn't just about us. And I think so many times we think it's just about us.

It isn't. And it's so important. ⁓ So when we take the time, you're saying, whether you get up at 5 a.m. or you do it after work or you do it at lunchtime, whatever it is. ⁓

KC Brothers (14:24)

It isn't.

Amy Vetter (14:37)

putting those boundaries in place in your life, we can't say because we have three kids, we don't do it or because of this or because of that. We can do it in 10 minutes. We can do it in 15 minutes. We can do it in five minutes sprints during the day, even if it's meditation. ⁓ There's so many ways to help yourself. It's just finding that journey in the path that works for you and the way you exist and walk.

KC Brothers (14:43)

Yeah. Yeah.

Amy Vetter (15:05)

through life on a daily basis.

KC Brothers (15:08)

Yeah. So, ⁓ I'm glad you said that because again, this looks so different for everybody in their own lives. ⁓ I read this book years ago called why we sleep and it's, it's thick. Have you read it?

Amy Vetter (15:15)

Mm-hmm.

Mm Yeah.

No, but I understand the concept. Yeah. Yeah.

KC Brothers (15:26)

It's so good. But one of the things

I didn't realize before is that it is genetic, whether you're an early riser or a night owl. And so I shared my example and I confess that I've been an early riser for the majority of my adulthood. But if you're not, don't force yourself to be, which is hard because I know this world, our society really does ⁓ incentivize or reward early risers. ⁓ But find a way. ⁓

Amy Vetter (15:32)

Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

KC Brothers (15:54)

to either still start your day, I don't care what the time is on the clock, but start your day with some of these things and or find ways to incorporate them throughout your day, however it works, but to your point, they can't be ignored. They really cannot be ignored. Your mental health doesn't just impact you, it impacts your family and impacts your coworkers. And all of these things, you said the word multiplier and I wanted to hit on that more because I really

Amy Vetter (16:15)

Mm-hmm.

KC Brothers (16:23)

Firmly firmly believe, I, I want to say that there's data out there and I just don't have it handy. ⁓ but one of my favorites right now in this space, just talking about a lot of these things is Arthur Brooks and he's a professor at Harvard. And I'm sure I could do a quick Google and see he has stats published and maybe I'll do that later and put them in the show notes or something. ⁓ that show that when you do take care of yourself in these ways, you are in fact more productive.

It is not a badge of honor to say you only slept four hours and you worked, worked, worked, worked, worked. It is not a badge of honor to eat out every day because you're too busy to make a meal and have leftovers for lunch the next day. It is not, you know, I'm sure you have other faux badges of honor that we need to break these myths. ⁓ but it, when you also allow your employees, when you allow yourself to do this, that's one thing, but when you.

Amy Vetter (16:58)

No.

KC Brothers (17:23)

Trust your employees and allow them to go home to their families in the evening, to have the time to afford to make a dinner, to sit at a table, to exercise, to do these things. That employee will show up better for however many hours they're showing up for.

Amy Vetter (17:42)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, absolutely. And, and you are an example. So, you know, when you as a leader do it, there's, you know, tons of research around it. Then your team does it. But if you don't do it, your team doesn't feel they're allowed to do it, whether that's their option or not, they're not, you know, reality, but

KC Brothers (17:53)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Amy Vetter (18:08)

that is what they're gonna believe because I see a lot of leaders, even when they do take time, they hide it because that was kind of how they grew up. I know in my generation, it was get in before the partner, leave after the partner.

KC Brothers (18:17)

Mm.

Mm-hmm

Amy Vetter (18:26)

and so, you know, if that belief system is built up inside of you, even as the leader, when you take that time, you feel guilty. You still feel like people are watching you when no one's actually watching you. ⁓ or would see it as a good thing, right? That you're transparent with your team, that you are taking that time and they don't think you're working. You know, seven days a week because they're not going to want to stay at a workplace like that. But.

you know, that's where culture has changed and perception is everything ⁓ in the workplace to actually flip it around. So it has to start with the leadership being in alignment with the wellness programs in the workplace for them to work. You can't just put wellness programs in the workplace and then get in a leadership room and complain that like.

no one cares or no one's using them. Well, they're not using them if they're not seeing their boss use them. And it's the only way for it to be powerful enough in your organization to shift the culture is when the leadership is in alignment with it.

KC Brothers (19:38)

Yeah. ⁓ okay. So do you have someone that comes to mind a leader at a firm, like walk us through a real life story.

Amy Vetter (19:47)

of transformation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

KC Brothers (19:49)

Yeah. When some like, what did someone look like? How bad was it? I mean, can,

what's word I'm looking for? You can take out names, substitute a fake name, but I'd love to hear a story like just because I feel like people can then see themselves in, in a story, know, whether, whether they're the person or they're, they're someone rolling up to a person like this, but then seeing that change is possible and what the change looks like.

Amy Vetter (20:04)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well...

Yeah, so as a consultant, I go into firms that do workplace transformation. And what that means is that the managing partner knows that the firm needs to change. ⁓ However,

that firm, ⁓ you know, the partners are in similar generations and, you know, they've always done it a certain way and why should they shift it now? And more looking at the other generations on the firm of like, why don't they think the same as me?

And so ⁓ there's been a number of these engagements I've done. There's a couple that stick in my mind, ⁓ but one in particular that's been really interesting has been that when I wrote my book, Disconnect to Connect, ⁓

a managing partner reached out to me that, you know, related to the stories in the book and my story and the practices and what he's trying to do in his own life as well to transform. But he couldn't get his other partners along with him and he knew like this had to shift.

So he said, I want to start with the managers, the senior managers and the directors. They are the future of this firm. So if I can get them going, then that helps the people that are underneath them. So we started running ⁓ workshops with that, with those leaders and really talking about more of this purpose work. Yeah.

KC Brothers (22:01)

Really, really quick before you,

can you paint the picture a little bit more of like, what was wrong at the firm? What did this partner see in the firm that made him want to reach out to you?

Amy Vetter (22:12)

Well, it's the traditional practices that were in place in the accounting firm that if they were gonna grow and retain staff, yeah. I'm trying to not be specific. I know. ⁓ But enough that I think any accountant understands what I'm talking about as far as the work life and.

KC Brothers (22:20)

Right, well what were those? Sorry, I really want specific here. ⁓ But I want them Amy, why are you holding me?

Amy Vetter (22:40)

and so forth of just making sure that we change leadership styles in order to make sure into the future that this firm grows and prospers. And so ⁓ through the work that I have done with them,

it takes a lot of their leaders to actually do the individual work on themselves, right? Like just understanding themselves personally before they understand themselves as a leader with others. Because if I can understand my own patterns, then, and I learn what it takes to break them, I can be a much better coach.

to the people that work for me as well. And one of the biggest things, no matter what level it is that people struggle with is delegation. And so really to try to empower other people, and there can be a million reasons, is one is I think I could just do it better. It'll be quicker if I just do it, which is not true because that's a perpetuating thing. The second is I'm a people pleaser and I don't want to add.

KC Brothers (23:36)

yes.

Yeah.

Amy Vetter (23:55)

things onto the plate of someone I'm worried about like giving them too much work. Or the third is I am worried that if they start being good at the work that I do, what what's gonna happen to me? Right? And I can be an yeah.

KC Brothers (24:10)

Well, that one, yeah.

You keep going.

Amy Vetter (24:15)

Okay, I didn't know if you want to so one of the things that's hard is like understanding Like what is it that drives the behavior not the behavior itself? Right. We have to go a level deeper to understand what's driving us so that we can work on that So we can create the space be able to delegate and empower other people and when we do that, then those people feel needed

KC Brothers (24:29)

Yeah.

Amy Vetter (24:45)

And they feel like their careers are in good hands because when we're a leader, we are actually, we get the gift of people's career being in our hands, that we're there to elevate them. so really understanding that and understanding our motivation for that, then when we see those issues with people that work for us, then we can better help them to.

be able to transform themselves. But the awesome thing that happened through all of this is because each of those leaders, you know, went from feeling imposter syndrome to feeling more confident and feeling like they didn't have work-life balance to like understanding, I can create boundaries and be able to do this and have a life at home and those struggles that we all have.

But then what it led to was because this was so successful with the manager level that the partners all requested to be in the room. So it actually shifted backward where the partners are like, why weren't we included in this? We want this as well. And it brought.

all those leaders together from manager level all the way through the top partners to really start shifting the firm and thinking through what are new ways of working, having better communication. The one thing that is true amongst every organization I go in is the biggest gap is communication.

KC Brothers (26:14)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Amy Vetter (26:28)

is

we get frustrated with people, we get frustrated about things and we don't talk about it, we don't communicate or we don't get to know people at a personal level. And when that starts shifting, then the culture starts shifting. People feel like they can put work in the right place and still have a home life and be able to prosper not only from...

the culture point of view, but the business actually increases in revenue as well. And I've got proof of that over and over and over again. When people are happier, when you retain better staff, it benefits the business. And so I call that the fulfillment ROI is that we want to reach to this place of

KC Brothers (27:11)

⁓

Mmm.

Amy Vetter (27:17)

joy or bliss in our organization where we have business rigor but we also have personal fulfillment and when those are brought together everything prospers.

KC Brothers (27:30)

Yes. So as you were talking about that, I was reminded of two books I've read in my life that were really impactful on me. One is The Five Dysfunctions of a Team that I read really early in my career that we even ran. So the way the book is is like it's kind of a facilitator to help you do some of the things that you are helping firms do.

Anyway, we had a dysfunctional team and we use that to help guide us through conversations and stuff. ⁓ and it was transformational. I don't think that's always possible to be honest. And I think it was very interesting that we were able to do it the way we did where we actually had someone on our team facilitate. And I do not recommend that.

Amy Vetter (28:02)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

it's good to have a third party. Yeah, that's just been in the game. Yeah.

KC Brothers (28:24)

It really is. It really, really is. Yeah.

⁓ but another book is Crucial Conversations. that I think is just a staple for anybody to read, whether it's for business or personal life. But one of the biggest takeaways I've had from that book, and it's been years since I've read it, but it's just like with any crucial conversation, you need to think about what is my desired outcome for me? What's my desired outcome for them? And what's my desired outcome for the relationship?

And that thought exercise alone, I think is really beneficial, whoever you are, right? If you're the person on the receiving end of someone who is struggling to overcome these ⁓ norms that have been in the industry for a while. And again, I'm saying industry because this is a podcast for accountants, but to your point, these are not things that are unique to accounting. ⁓ They are pervasive in business in general.

Amy Vetter (29:01)

Okay.

So nice.

KC Brothers (29:24)

⁓ but also good, a good exercise for someone who's in leadership, who's having a hard time breaking through, maybe, breaking the mold, getting out of these habits and thinking, okay, well, what, what is it that I want for myself, for my employee and for the relationship for the business unit? ⁓ I'm so glad that you do have proof that like your fulfillment ROI of that.

Amy Vetter (29:47)

Mm-hmm.

KC Brothers (29:54)

because I've wanted stuff like that to be true. I believe in it. I really do think that happier employees produce better. But I've never really had data to speak to for it. So that was really, I was like, yay, someone.

Amy Vetter (30:04)

Yes.

Yeah,

I knew I had to have a metric to prove this out over time and it's awesome to see it. It really is. It does take time and it takes effort. So it's not as much about the monetarial investment. mean, there's obviously that piece of it when you want to make a transformation, but then there's the work, you know, whatever you put in, you know, as far as time together, then there's time alone.

KC Brothers (30:16)

Yeah.

Amy Vetter (30:40)

that the work has to happen in order for it to be successful.

KC Brothers (30:43)

Yeah.

Well, and you glossed over, I don't want to say glossed, you mentioned it briefly of like also how this impacts ⁓ turnover burnout. ⁓ We already have a talent shortage in the industry and I know some talking points, but again, I would love any information at a detail you have on

Amy Vetter (30:56)

I mean.

KC Brothers (31:12)

the cost to a firm when someone leaves in their first six months or even in their first year, 18 months. And the positive impact of a workplace that retains employees.

Amy Vetter (31:27)

Yeah, I mean, I don't have like exact dollars on those things, but however, and I do want to also say like, it's not just your new people, ⁓ as far as like,

KC Brothers (31:45)

It's your tenured

people too. Yeah.

Amy Vetter (31:45)

The

tenured people are extremely important in the way ferns are set up because there's no way to retire if you don't have experienced staff ready to be able to move into that, which is causing a lot of decisions for PE and acquisition because this time wasn't taken.

KC Brothers (31:50)

yeah.

Hmm.

Amy Vetter (32:07)

to lead and really make time for your staff. So the problem is, is you also lose out on client loyalty.

because when those team members leave, they have built relationships with those clients. And that loses faith in a client when every time they're meeting with someone new or they're not having a stable relationship or they gotta keep explaining their business or their personal issues to you because they don't have a consistent person that they're working with. It's all valuable. I think...

KC Brothers (32:19)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Amy Vetter (32:46)

The thing I would just say about it that's so important is we spend so much time focusing on clients and client relationships.

and not the same amount of time on employees and employee relationships. And so if we do care about clients, we actually have to work from the employee point of view. And it can't just be that we sacrifice our life to make a client happy, that we're just defining as what makes a client happy. Just being always on, available for 24 hours a day is not.

KC Brothers (33:05)

Yeah.

Amy Vetter (33:26)

the way to make a client happy. You can put boundaries in place. It's just the way it's always been done. It doesn't mean that it's true. And so it's really important that we understand that keeping our employees healthy, that they aren't feeling burnt. I just lately have come across a definition of burnout that I think is really helpful and useful is I think we look at burnout

as this very negative term, but when you really think about it, the reason you're burned out is because you actually love what you do. So you're working really hard on it because you care.

And then you are elevated because you work so hard. And then you get more and more responsibility and you get tired and exhausted and sick and all the things. And so as a leader, we don't want to burn out people that really love what they do. They actually want to stay working with what they're doing. These aren't people that are just over it. We don't want them to get to that point.

KC Brothers (34:21)

Mm-hmm.

Amy Vetter (34:36)

And so when you think about it kind of reverse, it helps to figure out like why we need to keep these boundaries so we keep really good people in the system.

KC Brothers (34:45)

Yeah. It's about protecting them and retaining. Yeah. I love that. You, you turn that on its head for me. Like there's a reason why it's not that they're getting burned out because they're in handcuffs in a machine and you're forcing them forward. No, they're getting burnt out because they do like their work. ⁓ they want to perform, they want to produce. ⁓ but there's just so much on their plate. Yeah. Good call out. ⁓ okay.

Amy Vetter (34:50)

Yeah.

Thank you.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

KC Brothers (35:16)

I've got a few

to close out a few rapid fire questions for you. ⁓

Tell us, ⁓ what is one of your favorite books right now?

Amy Vetter (35:32)

My favorite books right now? I'm trying to think of when I've had time to read a book lately. I can't think of something right off the top of my head. Yeah. Okay.

KC Brothers (35:46)

We can edit that one out.

Tell us a little bit about your routines. I was gonna say morning routine, but to our point earlier, it doesn't always have to be the morning. What are routines for you that are essential?

Amy Vetter (36:02)

Well, and I think we figure out, and I do this with ⁓ my clients a lot, is to figure out where your energy's at, because it shifts over your lifetime. Like, I know when I was younger, I had more energy at the end of the day. I could work out after work. At this point in my life, if I don't work out in the morning, it doesn't happen. Like, I'm, yeah. So I do have, yeah.

KC Brothers (36:23)

Same, That's another reason why I wake up. Yeah.

Amy Vetter (36:29)

Yeah, I mean, I do happen to be a morning person. ⁓ I'm not 5 a.m. or but ⁓ I, you know, but I do work out in the morning. And what I've also noticed about my energy is it's important for me to get my own work done in the morning because my energy is at its highest. So like anything I need to do individually for the day, I have time blocked.

in the morning so that I can get that out of the way. So when I do my meetings, I can be fully present. I'm not feeling like I didn't get certain things done that had to get done for the day and really prioritizing that. ⁓ And the other thing is that, you know, I am a breakfast eater. I cannot skip breakfast. So.

KC Brothers (37:20)

me neither.

Amy Vetter (37:21)

I have, I'm very boring with food. have the same food almost every day, but I have oatmeal with protein powder and green tea. But, ⁓ but if I don't eat that before I work out, like I won't have the right kind of energy that I need. Now some people can eat protein before they work out. I'm not one of those people. And yoga, there's actually something called doshas that ⁓

KC Brothers (37:30)

I love it.

Amy Vetter (37:49)

talk about your different energy levels. And for my energy, need carbs in the morning so I can burn it off and then get into protein. So that's typically my morning routine.

KC Brothers (38:02)

Awesome. Last one, one word that describes your leadership style.

Amy Vetter (38:13)

⁓ I would say authentic.

KC Brothers (38:17)

I like that. I think it fits perfectly. Yeah. Well, everyone, I hope you enjoyed ⁓ today's podcast with Amy. If you want to learn more about her, look at her books, check out her podcast, see about a retreat, ⁓ go to amyvetter.com. Yeah. ⁓

Amy Vetter (38:40)

Yes.

KC Brothers (38:42)

Okay, great. Amy, it was a delight. Thank you so much.

Amy Vetter (38:45)

Thank you.