ColivingDAO Insights: The Web3 Path for Regen Living

Trust and Collaboration in the Digital Age with Helen Puryer

• Daniel Aprea & Gareth Thompson • Season 2 • Episode 36

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Helen Puryer, a visionary in the blockchain space and a driving force at Chromia, joins us to unravel the transformative power of decentralized governance. From her beginnings in politics to pioneering new models of participation and inclusivity in blockchain, Helen shares how this technology is reshaping governance. We explore how decentralized systems are empowering stakeholders, enhancing community involvement, and why the journey isn't without its hurdles, such as varying levels of understanding and engagement in these innovative governance structures.

We delve into the groundbreaking ColivingDAO model, where traditional cooperative structures intersect with cutting-edge Decentralized Autonomous Organizations. This hybrid approach raises the bar for sustainable living, aiming for net-zero energy consumption and promoting regenerative finance within communal frameworks. Helen offers her critical perspective on the trend of token launches that falsely promise governance utility, stressing the importance of genuine decentralization and active community engagement in these evolving systems.

The conversation takes a deep dive into regenerative tokenomics, where we highlight the ethical dimensions and challenges of circular economic systems in impact-driven projects. Helen discusses strategies for rewarding both impact creators and investors, while maintaining a sustainable token economy. By aligning incentives with community goals and emphasizing a "return on humanity," innovative projects are setting new standards in tokenizing impact and fostering resilient ecosystems. Tune in to explore how these ideas could redefine trust and collaboration in the blockchain world.

Daniel:

Welcome everyone to yet another episode of Co-Living DAO Insights. This is your co-host, daniel, and I'm joined today, as usual, by my co-host, gareth, as well as our special guest of the day, ellen Puryear. Ellen is a business development at Chromia, leading L1 blockchain in the Nordics, building innovative ventures in different verticals. Helen, thank you so much for being here.

Helen:

Thank you for inviting me, Hello everyone.

Daniel:

Big pleasure to have you here as well, Helen, and welcome, Gareth, as usual.

Gareth:

Yeah, welcome Dan. Looking forward to another exciting podcast episode and we've got a really interesting guest today.

Daniel:

Really great to have Helen with us, absolutely so, helen, thanks really for being here. Why don't you introduce yourself a little bit? Let us know what work you're doing at Acromia. But, more importantly, how did you end up in this crazy space, in the blockchain and the regeneration?

Helen:

Yeah, thank you for your question. I've been in the blockchain space for seven plus years now, so one of the early day supporters of the technology. I joined, actually quite randomly. I had a bunch of friends who were mining Ethereum back in 2017, which sounds very old-fashioned these days because, as you know, you cannot mine Ether any longer and I joined as an analyst trade forecasting to advertising on blockchain, to entertainments and hotel businesses that wanted to use blockchains for incentives to fashion and gaming. And my latest passion has been within regeneration and sustainability space. So I've been a part of several projects that have been playing around with the idea of how do you tokenize impact, how do you tokenize carbon credits and make positive change in these markets. So it has been quite a ride for me. I really enjoy the space. I really enjoy the intersection of innovation and emerging technologies, together with some traditional industries that would benefit from those emerging technologies. So I'm an expert in everything tech and very passionate about seeing how tech can actually improve so many challenges these days. So that's, briefly, about me.

Daniel:

Brilliant Thanks for your introduction. Great to see your background and expertise that you developed and especially your passion for these technologies and the impact that they can have. And we're very curious. We've seen your background is in politics as well your academic background. So how was that transition and did you bring anything from your academic background in your technological and impact practice?

Helen:

Yeah, thank you for the question. Actually, that's true. For a while I did think that I would end up working in politics or in governance, and then it happened one day that I learned about cryptocurrencies and never actually took an exit. But I'd like to answer this question. Referring to blockchain is also about governance. In a nutshell, blockchain is about decentralized governance and it often uses the same core principles that we study in political science courses the same philosophies, the same basically rules on how this coordination is built between people, between actors. So I think it really fits well into my background and it really helps me look at blockchain as a decentralized organization, first and foremost.

Daniel:

Beautiful and definitely I see a very strong connection there. I love to use the word governance because, effectively, the technology that we have right now blockchain really allows for massive innovation in governance and the way people make decisions together. Here at CoLivingDAO, we very often talk about decentralization or decision making, massive innovation in governance and the way people make decisions together. Here at ConlivingDAO, we very often talk about decentralization or decision making and having new and updated governance models. In fact, we usually say have a voice to shape your community, because we really feel the importance for every stakeholder to really have a say in how decisions are made. So, in a nutshell, how would you describe the advantages and then the challenges of using decentralized governance, which is now enabled by blockchain? So things that were not really possible before, or not in the same way, are now possible, which opens up for a lot more possibilities and opportunities, but also some challenges, right?

Helen:

Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, the biggest benefit is for greater inclusion the opportunity to actually involve people in broader decision making. Power and voice should be given not only to shareholders, so the people who actually own the company, but also to the stakeholders, so the broader community, that have certain impact or are impacted by a certain organization, but usually they're not given any voice. And with the introduction of blockchain technologies and decentralized, autonomous organizations, it actually becomes possible. And I think this is beautiful, and I think this should not only be used by Web3 projects, but also by traditional enterprises and corporations around the world. So I think this is really the biggest advantage and my company would like to entertain this idea and see how can we actually test this theory.

Helen:

Do people actually want this decision-making power?

Helen:

That's the next question and that's also the challenge, because with some projects that we've been building and launching, we actually were willing to do some bold moves and to decentralize some centralized entities, so to decentralize the traditional company, for example, and make it more like a cooperative where people would actually co-own it with us, which is truly bold, truly a bold, bold move. But one thing we've realized is that people don't always want this power and people don't always care as much on a deep level to often participate in this sort of discussions and voting, and sometimes the challenge as well is that they don't always have this in-depth understanding of different processes and things in question, so they could vote randomly as well, which becomes a problem for us. So it's also the question that decentralized governance is a really beautiful concept. I truly believe in it and we've tried to do it in different branches, from gaming to fashion to sustainability investments. But we also noticed that it's not always that people truly appreciate or understand how to use it yet. Maybe it's still early days.

Daniel:

Yeah, it's great to hear how you already identified a lot of the benefits and you're already experiencing some of the challenges and putting solutions in place, which I'd love to hear so far, at least, in terms of proposed solutions.

Daniel:

What we realize here at Kulivindau is, rather than using a model where every vote is equal to every other vote, what we do is everyone gets a say, but we do that making sure that every category stakeholder is protected.

Daniel:

So if financial investors get to vote, their vote combined is going to account for a certain decision-making power. At the same time, we have residents, we have partners and other stakeholders, including even the employees of the companies and so on, that have their own decision-making power protected as well. So in doing so, we ensure that not too many people are going to vote randomly. Even if some people maybe they're not sure what to vote, there's going to be enough people that know what they're voting for and know exactly why they're voting, and they are representing their own voting rights. In fact, if people are living in a community, surely they are directly affected by the decision, so I'm sure they will vote in a way that is aligned with that. And yes, we agree, it's important to educate people on how voting works and why it's so important, and that's a big part of our evolution in society as well. Have you already figured out some ways to overcome the challenges that you've identified in these decentralized voting systems?

Helen:

I think we're still experimenting very much, and I think many projects still experimenting very much, and I think many projects that we've launched are still in the building phase, as it happened, for example, in the gaming space that we've launched a few years ago. We're still working on the development of the core functionality of the game, so we didn't truly have a chance yet to decentralize the decision making systems around it, and it's done on the limited scope. So I think it's still very much present in terms of the challenges, and I think the first step is to engage with your community and understand your community, understand what is it comprised of. Is it the majority are actually the people who want to be part of it and proactively engage, or is it still investors? Because, as we all know, as it happens for a while, crypto industry and blockchain projects have been overwhelmed with people who buy a lot of tokens and then they buy it for, sadly, profit, not to actually take part in this specific project. So what we do a lot right now is we start with researching who is a part of our community, what they want, what are the incentives, why do they stay with us, and then engage them slowly but steadily into different decision-making processes.

Helen:

One thing that I think is quite interesting as well we're trying to look at is how do we work around the concept of DAO that was born in this on-chain blockchain world, web3 context, and how do we work with it in real world jurisdictions.

Helen:

So how do we register a DAO in Sweden, for example, or in Norway or elsewhere in the world? What are the applicable laws and regulations when it comes to that, who would pay the tax? Should it be everyone who is paying the tax or should it be a separate group of people who are running this DAO? So it's also something that I think is very interesting. I know that, surprisingly, there are some consultancies that are doing this job already, like EY that has a whole division that is consulting companies that have DAOs. What do they do with this sort of DAO structure in the real world? So I think this is quite interesting as well. But also to look at different solutions, how we are trying to fit it in the state of Wyoming, for example, where one of the few jurisdictions where you can register a DAO as a legal entity.

Gareth:

And then also the stakeholder voting issues right. And so what we did here at Co-Living DAO is we took an advanced form of the co-op, which is called the Fair Shares Commons, which is a legal incorporation, and we combine that with a DAO in order to get the best of the old world and the new world combined. It's really interesting that you brought that up. It's very in alignment with the design features that we're looking at.

Helen:

I'm glad to hear that. It's a good sign that we are moving in the right direction, that we're not doing something that is totally out of this world, so it sounds like a very positive green flag in this industry.

Gareth:

Yeah, thank you, and we're also humble in that. Like I think the really important thing you said is to engage with the community on the decision making side, and a big part of what we're doing with stakeholders is, you know, when we give them power, they also get responsibility, and that is tied to experience in self-managing companies, where there's a lot of really progressive experimental companies. They're not even experimental, they're well-established for decades, some of them now and they recognize this issue of when you give people power, sometimes they don't want it, and one of the reasons is because they then have responsibility that goes with that power, and so they need to feel like they are able to contribute and take on that responsibility and be trusted with it, which is a really interesting dynamic. So there needs to be more support and more support, like you said, engaging with the community and seeing what they truly need, rather than setting up lots of complex governance rules, right?

Helen:

We actually looked at this issue from a philosophical perspective as well. We've invited one very recognized, well-known professor who is studying leftist movements Well, as a political science I had to do that. So what he found? He looked at our white paper and he made some internal research and he said that, okay, look from a theoretical perspective, giving people decision-making power is not enough for them to be engaged. You really need to create a set of different activities to really engage them in different ways, beyond just passively saying yes or no.

Helen:

Then it would make sense, which I found is very interesting as well as quite applicable to, again, the centralized world, decentralized governance principles. So that's one of the keys for you to think found is very interesting, as well as quite applicable to, again, decentralized world, decentralized governance principles. So that's one of the keys for you to think as well. One thing that I wanted to bring up as well is what I've noticed a lot and I've launched a lot of different tokens throughout my career being a part of different projects in different roles. What I really don't like is that there are so many projects these days that are launching a token and using governance as one of their utilities, as an excuse to actually launch them and say, hey, this is a utility token. Decision making power will become a utility and that never happens in real life, when they actually come to a building.

Gareth:

Absolutely. There's a problem in crypto that also that we've recognized in that there's centralization that undermines the decentralization right, the element. There's some big scandals, of course, like Sam Bankman, freed and some of those elements where there was real centralized points of failure, and so to truly decentralize, you have to be brave enough as the company founders or if you're launching a crypto asset, to put true decentralized governance into the foundation right.

Helen:

I ask do you really want that? Because it's not that easy path to undertake. Why do you want this token? Why do you need to introduce this governance? Do you actually want to do it? What type of behavior do you want to incentivize? It's a lot of very serious, profound questions that need to be answered, and I hope there will be more conscious projects uh, like yours as well that actually take that into account when launching governance tokens.

Gareth:

On the conscious element. Helen, just to switch tack slightly, you've done a lot of tokenomics design and you mentioned regeneration, sustainability. These are things that we deeply care about too, and as part of the co-living structure, we want to have a regenerative finance and sustainability deeply embedded in the foundations. And that's what we are deeply embedding in the foundations. So just to give a practical example, any co-living dial community that runs on in our federation and would be obliged to move to renew you know 100 renewable energy, net zero, ideally create more energy than they consume and take part in the circular economy and reduce materials use wherever possible. So really like bold, deeply embedded environmental elements in there circular economy and reduce materials use wherever possible. So really like bold, deeply embedded environmental elements in there as well. And a few more features, but not to talk too much about co-living DAO at this stage. We're really curious about your tokenomics design experience and regeneration and refi. What do you think is the most important element when you're designing regenerative tokenomics?

Helen:

I will mention two most important elements that one should take into account when designing a token. I will skip the basics of tokenomics. I hope that listeners have some basic understanding of how token works. I mean, there are two basic types right Fungible, non-fungible. But first, first of all, I think when designing tokenomics for the project that calls itself regenerative, finance related project or impact related project, one needs to think of incentive structures. And whom do you want to incentivize?

Helen:

In my previous projects, I think I've been involved in two types of token incentives for ReFi projects. In one, you incentivize directly the people that are making this positive impact happen. So you reward the token to farmers, people who actually work with fisheries, in the forest, who plant the trees, who work around the trees, and then they get incentivized and rewarded for delivering clear and transparent information on time onto the blockchain system, and I think that's one way to do it. That's what impact token, as a term, is known for. I think this is a very interesting model. Unfortunately, I have not seen that many recently, but there has been quite a lot of those um like four or five years ago. The other way is to incentivize investor, and this is a little bit more tricky maybe for, like blockchain crypto worlds. It's easier to understand because it's maybe like what you expect from a crypto project, like as an investor. You come in and there is usually a good system where you get incentivized and rewarded for creating a positive impact or doing something good. And in the systems that I've created recently, we also looked at should the investor who puts in money for a good cause so he invests into some sort of refi or impact-related project and the project creates positive impact should the investor be rewarded with more token for, in a way, making this happen or not? Is it ethical or not for the investor to be the one who is rewarded or should it be someone else in this value chain who is incentivized and ultimately rewarded? I think I mean there's no answer. You can experiment and see what happens with the investor behavior and how they react to that. We tried both impact token that rewards the people who make it happen, make positive impact, but also the investors themselves.

Helen:

And the second question and element of designing successful tokenomics for impact related projects is how do you create a token economy that is circular so you don't just reward users and they just take these tokens and they sell it on some crypto exchange and live forever. But how do you make sure that, if they get these tokens, if they are incentivized through them, or if they buy them, there is more tokens created? How do they reinvest them back into the system? So the loop is closed. How do they reinvest them back into the system? So the loop is closed, so you basically create even more positive impact after all.

Helen:

So how do you create circular economic system is very interesting as well, and we've done that through, for example, making it impossible to directly sell the tokens, so you could only, even if you get some extra rewards, you can reinvest them into different projects inside of the system, so you can choose one, but you can't turn it into fiat and just leave. That's one of the ways how we thought to approach it. So, yeah, that's basically my take on it. That's my advice to everyone who wants to do a token Think about whom do you want to incentivize, what type of behavior you want to incentivize with this token and, ultimately, how do you make sure that this token is working for good, for creating something good in the world?

Gareth:

It really aligns with refi and regenerative finance principles, where every transaction should have, you know, a social, environmental and a financial benefit, and then examining the incentive structures and designing those incentive structures is the way to do it. Some really food for thought there and how we're going to run the co-living DAO communities and the federation as well. There's some great ideas there and, of course, the great thing about decentralization is the community can propose some of these incentive structures as well exactly.

Helen:

I mean, that's probably the beauty of it, that you don't have to be the one who sets this type of structure and then it's set in stone and you can't ever change it. It might come from down, from the community and up to the creating this decision making mechanisms.

Daniel:

That's a very important point, because a lot of people feel that for a system to be fair has to be set in stone so that people can make their decision in advance on how to utilize these tokens.

Daniel:

Having said that, the number one thing for us, other than making the system fair, which is obviously a priority we want to make a system anti-fragile and fully resilient, resistant to shocks, and in order to do that, we realized that there has to be some degree of flexibility in the way things are designed. But to make sure there is fairness and decentralization, all the decisions related to something like tokenomics, for example, they definitely have to be taken in a decentralized way as well, following the governance models that we discussed a few moments ago. So what we envision is a system that is designed in a way that can survive turbulence, survive shocks, and not just survive but even thrive in the presence of uncertain conditions and changes in the general landscape. And in order to do that, there's a mixture of some features that are there to stay, designed to stay, and features that work until they are to be changed, and they only change if there is a level of consensus that is determined by the specific governance model that we're utilizing.

Helen:

It's a great question I mean, it's also a rhetorical question whether it is possible to create an economics model that is fully anti-fragile.

Helen:

Because what I noticed as well throughout my career is that crypto market if you create, like a standard ERC20 token that gets listed on different exchanges, that type of crypto market is not rational. So you can't fully explain and predict what is happening on that market and when, and sometimes it feels like, okay, you do a certain set of actions, you engage with the community, you make all sorts of announcements that should incentivize the token price and make it even more, you know, stable, but usually it works vice versa and no one can explain or predict that. But that being said, of course you can make some set of rules that would protect the system anyway in case something goes wrong. I think MakerDAO is a great example in that regard. I think they have very well written, detailed rules what to do in case the system starts failing, like a shutdown mechanism that sort of protects the funds of the people, and I think this is one of the most successful examples. So I truly recommend reading the white paper if you haven't done that yet.

Daniel:

Absolutely. These mechanisms are vital and we completely agree on that. Let's talk a little bit because I know that some of the listeners are very familiar with tokenomics and everything we're discussing, so they'll find this very, very inspiring. At the same time, some of our listeners they might not be extremely familiar with all this and they may be thinking, ok, what is this all about? What's the tangible practical benefit of all this? So let's talk a bit about again how blockchain can really positively impact the world, specifically for refining regeneration, in a very tangible way.

Helen:

So how would you say what's something that was not possible or very impractical before blockchain, but now, with blockchain, can be done in a very tangible way that benefits the people in the planet um, I think we should be very clear with what blockchain is and what blockchain is not, and I don't think it's, you know, a type of pill that cures all the diseases related to vcm, market and regeneration. One. One thing that blockchain is is a decentralized, transparent database where you can put in information that cannot be deleted, removed or changed over time and it stays there pretty much forever, and that's the beauty of blockchain. That is a great example of what it can do for the regenerative economy market going forward. So it's a great way to create this registrar and register the projects, the investors, the people involved into that, who has done what and when, and create more accountability. At the end of the day, that's something that I guess is relatively easy to understand and it has a direct impact on this industry, and that's, I think, what blockchain should be used for primarily.

Helen:

I mean, of course, there are a lot of things that you can add on top of that, and we have discussed one of those like tokenomics beautiful example, because by introducing the token, the utility token, you can, as I said, incentivize different types of behavior, but that could be like an additional thing. You don't have to have a token to use blockchain. You can just use it for storing data, registering data, working around with data, making it available and transparent for generations to come, so we can better trace and understand different trends that are happening in this world and actually see, okay, who is accountable for doing certain actions. I think right now it's a big problem because the registrars disappear, the documents get removed. It's, you know, blame game sometimes. So that's the beauty of blockchain to resolve those things.

Gareth:

Very well articulated, helen, and thanks for the description.

Gareth:

If we move it into a real world context, that's relevant for what we do at Co-Living DAO, this makes me think about and, again coming back to sustainability, it makes me think about the transparency element.

Gareth:

If I was a resident in a Co-Living DAO community and I know that what's recorded on the blockchain is a record of blue and green spaces because it's part of, as I said before, one of the primary priorities for CoLivingDAO is to make sure that we expand sustainability and regenerate nature, and so there'll be a log of blue and green spaces in the local area around the buildings in the community, and so residents can access that and see how much funding is going into restoring and expanding those blue and green spaces, and so it removes some of the uncertainty around.

Gareth:

You know, management said that they were going to spend money on creating a nice park for us, a place where we can go and get shade when it's too hot in the sun. Where's the money? What's going on? And it's, you know, in a traditional structure nobody knows what's going on, necessarily because there's information silos. But one of the practical benefits here is that you can see real world changes. A resident will see the community shaping and changing and can actually check the data to make sure that people are doing what they say they will do indeed, one thing that I want to add is about what blockchain is not, and I think it's also very important to understand.

Helen:

Blockchain is great at storing data and, as you said, creating more transparency around different actions.

Helen:

What it can do is to actually verify whether a certain action has happened in the real world. So blockchain as a software has nothing to do with actually telling, yeah, the tree is actually planted in that forest, or yeah, that the amount of greenhouse gas emissions has actually decreased by this and that many tones. So for that to happen, I think the future of regenerative finance is using blockchain in combination with other technologies hardware technologies, iot technologies, like satellites, like different geo trackers that are available these days and there are a lot of great examples of projects that are doing that and I learned this term a short time ago, but it's called impact. Deep in Impact destroys the physical infrastructure networks that basically combine hardware devices that are tracking the impact and register it on blockchain and reward people who actually made it happen for doing something good and contributing to the system. And I think this is the future of ReFi combination of different technologies, not just relying on blockchain exclusively, because it's not a golden pill. It wouldn't cure everything.

Gareth:

Right and when you have a really high trust community. Helen, I wonder if all the additional technologies are great for verification and so on. But even if you, if you get a decentralized community culture right, there's a high trust culture and then the people element comes in and you know people are there to support each other and and, rather than always lean on the technology, they can lean on each other and then use the technology as to enhance that and enhance those relationships but blockchain is trustless, so ideally, you don't need trust when you use blockchain, because it's transparent by definition, so you don't rely on trusting someone else.

Helen:

But yeah, I agree, of course, if there is a transparent and trusting community, um, but isn't it a little bit, uh, too unrealistic, like, I mean, that's the nature of human being, I guess? I mean, it's usually I mean sometimes happens, so that it's hard to trust completely everyone. But if we manage to do that, then you know, or is it too utopian to believe, I think we can.

Gareth:

Yeah, our view on this is really interesting. Question is we can set a container that's as safe as possible and that enables trust to develop within it, and blockchain is a technology that can enable that. But, of course, you can never have a utopian ideal. Right, we're dealing with human nature. But we believe that by setting the right container, we incentivize people to behave in a better way, in a more positive, community-minded way, and then, when the benefits come through, that reinforces that positive behavior.

Helen:

No, I fully agree, and I think this is the beauty of blockchain, because it has so many different angles and components to it that it's not just a technology. You don't look at it from purely technological perspective. You need to look at it from psychological perspective, societal perspective, economical perspective, and it's so many things to take into account when designing such system. Maybe that's why it's called system, because it's complex, it includes many different components, but I think it's incredibly interesting to study it from different angles.

Gareth:

Absolutely. And the word system. We like to use the word ecosystem, because using some of these technologies to mimic nature, we think, is a really smart way to do things as well. And so we have an ecosystem of different solutions to build these communities and to build safe spaces and trust, which is a combination of systems. An ecosystem is effectively lots of systems working together, which is pretty amazing.

Daniel:

I just wanted to add because I completely agree, and we recently came across the question in what we're designing, do we need to rely on people, collaborate more and really see beyond individual gain? It's a question that pops up very often, and what we're doing here at colivendau is really designing systems so that, first of all, they're sustainable and anti-fragile and they can resist shocks, as we mentioned earlier. What this means is we're not trying to develop a system. It only works if everyone is super nice with each other and they all prioritize other people's gain rather than their own.

Daniel:

What we believe in is really making sure the system itself is aligning everyone's incentives and benefits, so that thinking about other people's gains or thinking about individual gains ultimately ends up being in alignment and therefore the system is a lot more resistant to shocks or bad actors, because a bad actor would have a very little incentive in gaming the system or maximizing their own gain. I mean, they could still maximize their own gain without really taking anything away from the other people. That is really the key. So, just like you say, helen, I completely agree Blockchain is a tool. There's some things blockchain can do, some things blockchain cannot do, and it's up to us, when designing incentive systems to find a way to make sure that people align their personal gain with the community gain and society and not just society but also the environment as well so that, ultimately, decisions are made in a way that really benefit everyone.

Helen:

I really like what you're saying. I fully agree. I read a very interesting article yesterday that has this main idea about why do people participate in different projects, why do investors bring money to support different projects, and I mean especially in the investing space. The main question is always like what is my return on investment? What is the ROI right? And the question that the article raised is how do we create a system in which it's not mainly about ROI, return on investment, but about a return on humanity, ROH, and how do we make this type of investments into the positive outcomes attractive? The kind of systems where you invest your time and money into creating more good and you don't expect necessarily roi, but you get high roh instead. And there's no answer again to that. It's a lot of great projects, I think, working towards answering that question, but it really provoked provoked my thinking in terms of that's true, how do we do that?

Gareth:

beautiful phrase return on humanity. That's really.

Helen:

Yeah, that's great because I mean and we discussed it as well as in the in the refining talents course I mean, how do we treat nature as an asset? I think it's also a part of that um, how do we turn nature into something attractive for people to work with, invest in, not only look at it as something that you squeeze and brings more money and more money?

Daniel:

Definitely A lot of food for thought, some great pointers, and it's very inspiring to see that more and more people are working towards these type of goals. So it's great to see those people like you and others, that are really very much in line with what we're doing here at Coal Living DAO and what we're looking to create. So it's been great to hear about all this, helen, and thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and passion for the space. Just before we wrap things up, any final thoughts that you'd like to share and if you want to share something with the audience, uh, as in how they can find out more about what you're working on um, I think blockchain.

Helen:

I have a huge belief in blockchain as as a technology.

Helen:

I think blockchain is here to stay for sure, so I truly and sincerely um incentivize people to look into this space to learn a little bit about it, because this is the future.

Helen:

We are doing a lot of exciting projects at ChromaWay, and we are the creators of this Layer 1 technology called Chromia. We do everything from decentralized games the most famous one is called my Neighbor Alice but we are also doing a lot in real world asset space, and the latest project that we have launched is called Flowmys Finance, and that's the one that I also invite listeners to look into, because what it does is that it is tokenizing impact exactly what I have been describing earlier in this discussion and I think it is very interesting to see whether we can actually quantify something that is unquantifiable, basically, and tokenize it and turn it into positive token rewards, and if that's something that you want to look at, definitely come in touch with me. We can talk more about it. I'm always happy to support a great discussion and thank you for inviting me here thank you so much for joining helen, thanks gareth, and thanks everyone for listening.

Daniel:

What we are going to do is we'll be back very soon, as usual. So, the meantime, why don't you share this podcast with anyone that you know that you think might find this content valuable and interesting? We are hoping to find more and more people that are aligned with our vision here at Co-LivingDAO, so, by all means, spread the word, make sure you are subscribed to this podcast in the first place, and we will be back very soon with more. So, in the meantime, head over to our website, co-livingdoubtcom, and if you want to find out how to get involved with our project, you will find all the information there. Thanks everyone for being here and we will be back soon. You.