ColivingDAO Insights: The Web3 Path for Regen Living
Hosted by ColivingDAO founders Daniel Aprea and Gareth Thompson, this podcast explores how Web3 technologies can enable sustainable, community-driven, and regenerative living.
Each episode of "ColivingDAO Insights" offers valuable perspectives, knowledge, and analysis on the practical applications of Web3 technologies in fostering regenerative living, such as decentralised ownership and governance models, proptech innovations, community living, and ways to regenerate both the planet and the economy.
ColivingDAO Insights: The Web3 Path for Regen Living
Cohousing Revolution: The Future Of Intentional Communities with Peter Burke
Imagine living in a community where your neighbors aren't just people next door, but friends you share values and intentions with. This episode delves into the transformative concepts of coliving and cohousing, exploring how they pave the way for a fairer society. Join us as we speak with Peter Burke, cofounder of Affair Society, whose passion for cooperative living is reshaping the fabric of community life.
In our conversation, Peter shares his journey through the cohousing landscape, highlighting the differences between traditional coliving spaces and cohousing communities. He emphasises the importance of intentional living, where each person has their own space complemented by communal facilities that foster connection and collaboration. We touch on the role of rural coliving in revitalizing communities and how it can reclaim the vibrancy of local areas while providing opportunities for sustainable living.
With a keen focus on innovative governance structures like mutual home ownership societies, we discuss how ownership can evolve from traditional models to encourage collective stewardship and community wellbeing. Peter’s insights on the necessity of social capital in creating inclusive communities are inspiring, prompting us to rethink what home and community mean in today’s world.
Join us on this journey of discovery as we explore the myriad ways communal living can enrich our lives, foster deeper connections, and help build a more sustainable future. Don't miss out on these vital insights that could change how you view living spaces forever. Be sure to subscribe, share, and engage with us as we continue to seek new ways to connect and create together!
Welcome everyone to yet another episode of Coliving DAO Insights. This is your cohost, daniel, and I'm joined today, as usual, by my cohost, gareth, as well as our special guest of the day, peter Burke. Peter is the co-founder of Affair Society. He's a cohousing and coliving developer in the UK whose core principle is developing more cooperative housing. Welcome, peter, daniel, great to meet you.
Peter:Thank you for inviting me and hello, Gareth.
Gareth:Hi, peter, really good to have you on today. Coliving and cohousing is obviously a big part of what we do and a really primary motivation for what we're building. So really great alignment.
Daniel:Looking forward to the chat welcome peter and gareth as well. Obviously, coliving and cohousing is something that is very close to what we love here at ColivingDAO here .
Gareth:I'm very much looking forward to this conversation we'll get started, peter, if you could just tell us a bit about your background and how you came into the co-living, co-housing space, I think that'd be really interesting.
Peter:Yeah, interestingly started in this sort of started when I went after university, went down to London thinking I was going to earn loads of money. I ended up in working for the Prince's Trust charity, actually helping young people through music, development, training. That they did. And I think it was the first time in my life that I realized that I actually felt kind of my calling, I suppose, is helping or supporting people. And then after that it took a weird twist. So I set up a social enterprise doing similar sort of stuff. So I set up a social enterprise doing similar sort of stuff and then I sort of kind of fell into finance and brokering finance, mainly for social enterprises at the time. And then, yeah, I spent nearly 10 years kind of brokering all sorts of weird and wonderful financial products for all sorts of product projects. And latterly I did a lot of property finance stuff.
Peter:And I think it was at that point where I kind of felt the urge to want to do something which was just a bit different. I think kind of peaked behind that curtain of how developers work. And you know I now know how hard that kind of part of the business is, but I always felt there was this kind of need to be more focused on the residents and focused on the people who are going to live there. And obviously the green agenda at the time was was becoming more prominent and I kind of started a fairer society really on the back of just kept hearing it through through through an election campaign of kind of certain politicians saying about a fairer society and it just sort of stuck at that time that that's the calling really. So, yeah, I came into this world of thinking I was just going to partner up with developers and builders and just build greenhouses, but they didn't have the same outlook or opinion as me at the time.
Peter:So and then I met my co-founder, nathaniel Whitestone, who introduced me to the whole cooperative co-housing world. So he's from the cooperative governance side and it was just kind of like this is where it all meets you, you know, this is where it all comes together. So we've developed a co-housing training program, we've looked at doing developments, we bought some properties. You know, we've just kind of done stuff in that space and I think it's been a journey up until now where we are in terms of what the next step is. You know what is it we do. But yeah, it's all been valuable to that point. So yeah, that's my journey so far.
Daniel:Awesome, great to hear all this, because we talk a lot about co-living here and I'm sure you do a lot of it as well and co-housing is a bit of a cousin of co-living, if we can say it that way. So a fairer society really resonates A big part of what we do here at Co-Living that we mentioned a fairer society, fair share, wealth and power. So I'm really interested in hearing exactly how things are happening in the projects that you're developing. Let's take a little step back, first of all for the audience. Maybe some people haven't heard of co-housing before, so would you like to give a bit of a definition as in what is co-housing, how it differs from co-living and why it's a great step towards a fairer society? Great question.
Peter:So, yeah, my kind of definition of you know the difference between co-housing and co-living is you know, co-housing is where you've got your own front door, you've got your own property, you've got a house or an apartment, but it's in this intentional community space. So you know, cars are parked on the outer limits and people have to walk past each other, walk past each other's front door. You know that intentionality is built into the design of the properties and how people want to live. You know the community house, the shared spaces, you know the guest bedrooms, everything is about how you live your life, intentionally together.
Peter:But you've got your own space to retreat to and you know be, be with yourself or your family or whatever it might be, whereas I think co-living, as you've both lived, is a building. You know sometimes it's just a studio or a room, but you have these shared spaces where that intentionality enables you to come together as a community. And I think, yeah, I think for me that there's sort of slight differences, but, yeah, the two would be the actual spaces that we, we live in. You know one one is more an apartment or a house and one is a room or a studio awesome.
Daniel:Yeah, thanks for the clarification. I know that, especially with new terms, there's a lot of overlap and different people might use the same term for different things, so it's great to know how you're defining that. And yes, I heard a lot of people say if you have your own washing machine, it's probably a co-housing, and if you don't, it might be a co-living. Definitely, when we talk about co-living in general, we know that it's a spectrum. Yes, some co-living spaces might have only a room, some spaces might have a studio, some space even a one-bedroom apartment, but certainly the level of interaction, the level of almost the need to use shared amenities, could potentially make the difference in terms of which term to use. But certainly there's a lot of overlap and preferably okay when someone uses the term almost interchangeably because at the end of the day, the core principles are the same and what we're looking to, to achieve and foster in this world is very much the same. So great to see this alignment.
Peter:Yeah and I think that you know the key, the key link to this is the co. You know, and I think it's all, it's all about the co. You know, the community, the collective, the collaborative, the you, it's all about the co. And I think that's just missing in housing. You know our environments around us so much. It's kind of eroding in society that this thing of community is gone.
Peter:You know, and it was so interesting and I use it a lot is that, you know, through those COVID times we kind of knew what our community was. You know, through those COVID times we kind of knew what our community was. You know, because we were confined to our individual spaces and we needed to rely on those people around us and where they are. And it was. It was a kind of nice but terrible moment in time in that for the work that I do, it really highlighted how, how little community some people had around them. You know, and I think that's that was definitely evident in in in older people. You know, so it's it's um. So yeah, it's interesting, but yeah, for me it's all about the community and and how how that community is defined by the people. Um is really my key theme of where we go with all of this stuff. You know it's like who do we want to be in that community with? Because if you just buy a house you don't know until you get there.
Gareth:That's great, peter. And on the community angle, you know you mentioned some of the tensions between you, know the commercial drive for property developers and you know some of the motives that you have to build a fairer society and to, you know, restore the heart of communities through co-living, co-housing. And I see from your background that you have an interest in rural co-living and co-housing and we know that some of those community areas have become a bit less vibrant in recent years. You know young people moving out, it becomes a bit stagnant, there's not a lot of jobs in the areas and things like that. What do you think um rural co-living and co-housing can do to help regenerate those local communities? How does that work?
Peter:so I think, with with the, the rural kind of um, the rural communities, you know it's, it is that what you're saying. It's, it's how do we, how do we regenerate those places with what the key industries or sectors have always been, you know, and I think, I think this is where farming, food production, you know, nature, they're kind of like being, you know, really pushed to the limits, um, in so many ways. And I think the the key part of getting more people back in to a rural community rather than just, you know, making it to have a big house in the country and commute to a city, you know, is how we is, how we create more opportunities for people to work the land or steward the land. You know and I'm sure we'll get onto it later about ownership, but I think you know, for me, especially around the cooperative, you know it's like we've got to kind of remove this thing about we need to own it. You know it's everything got to be owned. You know we've got to have a share and we've got to have our place in that community and we've got to have our role. And you know, I think the way it is with remote working now there's so many opportunities to be able to do your job in a place in a rural community, but still go and get your hands dirty, you know, still work the land, still live in nature, still be in nature.
Peter:And I just think, I think that hasn't been a choice for so many people. You know, we just kind of migrate to cities because that's where the jobs are, um, and I just think for us to to really tackle climate change, you know we've got to kind of have that place, haven't we in the countryside? That that mops it all up. What's going on in the city? I love city, you know city life it's there, it's got its purpose. But for people who don't want that, you know where's the vibrancy? And I think you know nature recovery. I've seen recently, just in the last four weeks or so, so much money now, pension funds even, stepping in and investing in that kind of nature recovery.
Peter:And there's, I just think you know, with renewable energy, I just think you know, with renewable energy, microgrids, regenerative farming and kind of protecting and saving soils. We're just at a point now where we need more people to live and work in the countryside, obviously not to the same level as the cities, but if that investment is moving over to kind of how we're going to protect our environments, then we need to create living spaces, you know, for for those people to live and and work close to to where they are. And and you know, obviously being biased, I think co-housing and co-living is perfect for that. It densifies the whole development. We're not sprawling onto the countryside, you know. We're creating places, maybe using barns or old farming buildings and turning them into functioning living spaces for people to to be able to be close to where they're going to work and either steward the land or support the the kind of recovery nature.
Peter:So, yeah, I think it's an integral part of all those things. You know. For me it's kind of nature food, you know energy. We don't want sprawling kind of wind farms. I think we want microgrids that support local communities. And then you know we need places for people to live that aren't just a big house with a big set of gates and load of fence around them. So, uh, so yeah, that's where I think it's got the space for for the next generation, young or old, to be part of that rural community beautiful, really like the blend that you mentioned.
Gareth:And you know there's a modern way of living that's kind of like living in a city but you're not, you're in the countryside. So there's a way to get the best of both worlds. You might have a job in the city where you need to be in one day a week and then work remotely and get access to the land and, you know, get connected to the land. Yeah, so you have the best of both worlds. It's not we're being forced into these false trade-offs at the moment, yeah, where either you live in the countryside and you live a simple life and you grow vegetables and you don't have much money and not a well-paid job, or you go to the city and contribute to pollution, live in the urban density and get completely disconnected from nature. It's like why do we have to have a trade-off?
Peter:so it's a beautiful solution to to combine the two and get the best of both worlds yeah, and I think, to add to that which I kind of missed around, the living element of it is because there is the need for some people to be in cities, or you know, time to do a project or be there but then retreat, you know, retreat and regenerate themselves, um, and I think these co-living spaces in rural, uh, settings can really help that.
Peter:You know, young people experience that, but, you know, go and have a good time in the city as well and do the work and then retreat, you know, and I think, uh, that's that's why it's probably the best time in the world ever to to live, if you can have that freedom and do, do, do all the good things, like you, like you said, and not just be like make that choice do I have a poorer life or do I have a richer life and not get the good balance I need. I think it's um, I just don't think we're we're moving to that quick enough, you know, and I think, I think young people I'm getting to that age where young people are in their 20s and early 30s, but you know, I think people are at that point, young people, where they want that, they really want that, and it's just not to them yet we're really seeing that with the digital nomads movement, because that's what people are kind of trying to do right, get that combination of city and countryside life, but then what?
Gareth:where? Where that becomes a bit lacking is that there's there's no community or sense of place, a sense of home, because you're always on the move, and so what we're seeing now is that digital nomads are looking for a way to connect into communities and have like a temporary home and maybe stay in one place for a bit longer to build relationships. So you can see that people are really experimenting, naturally with OK, I want to move around, but I also want to be a part of something and part of a community and feel connected. Dan, we spoke about the importance of having community structures, that that support people and enable them to build those connections, and inclusivity and so on. Probably have a few things we want to ask peter about that?
Daniel:yeah, definitely, and it's really interesting to talk about this need right now for for people to have a little bit of both at least city and rural setting close to nature, and right now it is possible. For a lot of people it hasn't been possible for a number of reasons, and I think one of the big ones has been cost, like if they have to own their own apartment. How can they own two apartments, one in the city and one in the countryside? Only a small subset of the population has been able to afford such thing and the ones that do, they probably reap the benefits of that.
Daniel:Certainly, co-housing, co-living, is something that can make them more available for everyone, because people could be plugged into a community and into another community, and which is something we are looking to create here at co-living dial also connections between communities, so that it's, at the end of the day, one large network rather than having disconnected communities here and there. So that it's, at the end of the day, one large network rather than having disconnected communities here and there. So that's definitely the future we are envisioning. Speaking about inclusivity, as we mentioned that, peter, why are inclusive structures, community structures, so important?
Peter:Well, I think the thing with inclusive structures and how we bring people together is it's just. It's just what we need as humans. You know, and it's just been really just taken away from this idea that you know, especially here in the UK. You know, you, you buy a property, you know you live in that property, you put your fence around, you know it's yours, it's just it's yours, and we block ourselves from even being connected, simply, and yeah, yeah, I think the thing around inclusivity for me is really that shared purpose or shared interest level. You know, what we found a lot over the years, especially trying to help co-housing groups develop, is this thing around. We sort of call it economic diversity, which is a bit of a kind of you know nothing term, but I think what happens is when people really connect on a shared purpose and really have those, you know, grounded interests in why they want to live together.
Peter:You know money and wealth, and all this stuff disappears. You know someone who's got a bit more money will put it in to support someone who hasn't got the money, so they can all live together and I think that's just been lost a lot. You know, in society in terms of kind of the. You know the class systems and how politics has gone, and let's not go into that.
Peter:But, you know, the realities are that people just need to be connected to other humans and there just seems to be so many barriers around at the moment that I feel like, you know, daos, cooperatives, you know they're ultimately the oldest, you know around a cooperative, one of the oldest structures there are out there for bringing people together, you know, and they've just been lost in the midst of all this stuff that comes down to money and and kind of.
Peter:You know, just, just just this feeling of power, you know, and it's kind of toxic and I think we just need to to break those structures down so so people can just be with people on their own terms. And I think that's that's that inclusivity for me is is if you allow that to happen and those conversations to develop. You know, and the structure that we use in terms of our development it's all around that co-creation, you know, just let people, let people make those decisions for themselves. But yeah, I think a big part of it for me is is how we bring people together on that kind of shared purpose or interest and that really, that really helps generate a, you know, an authentic inclusivity.
Daniel:Definitely, and it is in fact something we often talk about here at Cold Living Dow how society somehow has taken a direction where financial capital is tracked and measured constantly, while other types of capital, like social capital, environmental capital, they are pretty much not even tracked, not even measured and often not considered. So we do believe that it's very important to give the right space and importance to these different types of capital, including financial capital, just like different types. And so certainly people can contribute in multiple ways. Some people may contribute more funds, some people may contribute additional social value, and so on and so forth. So the beauty of the community is also this diversity of contributions, and that comes together with the inclusion or inclusivity element that we have in there.
Daniel:And it's great that you also mentioned the intentionality of the communities, because the biggest objection I hear generally, when I mentioned the idea of co-living to people that haven't heard of it or haven't thought about it before, they say, oh, wait, a minute, what if I don't like my neighbors? What if I have nothing in common with them? I don't want to live with them. And that is because intentionality might be missing and maybe some models in the past have pushed a bit of a, let's say, convenience agenda rather than community. So some facilities potentially have been positioned as in hey, you have a lot of convenience, which is great. I mean it's very, very convenient to make just one payment, not having to worry about bills, council tax and other things. Having a lot of services in one place, that's great.
Daniel:But it is important to combine the convenience element with the community element, specifically intentionality, making sure that the people that live together they do that on the basis of shared principles, shared values and therefore having a strong resonance that adds a lot of value to their lives. Therefore, it's not a nuisance to have a neighbor that might be noisy and so on, but it's actually a lot of added value because of the shared experiences they can create and the core of the community as well. So, peter, I know we spoke about this, by the way, in this podcast as well. For the audience, we have a themed co-living podcast as well, if you want to go back into the archives and check it out. But for you, peter, um, how could you describe a bit more the value that really can arise from having a community, especially an intentional community, just in layman terms, for people that maybe never lived in community and they don't know exactly what it's like to live with people that have shared principles and values yeah, I think this is.
Peter:This is where nate and I come together. You know, in terms of my co-founder and me, you know I come from that kind of exactly what you said. You know the different types of capital and how they come together to make something viable. You know, and have those conversations really quickly, so a group or kind of looking at it from more of a developer level. You know, is this viable, does this work?
Peter:But I think that viability and that feasibility comes together for people in this situation around governance. You know, it's really about how we let go of what we've always thought and really start is so important is that for people who want that kind of shared amenity, shared space, shared purpose. With that comes a real intentionality towards how we work together and live together and that's the governance and that's how we both think about how things should be, and it becomes part of your life, whereas before you didn't need to worry about it. I mean, you might have a dispute with your neighbour, but it's a dispute, you know, whereas actually there's a place for this conversation to continuously happen and it's interactive conversation, it's continuous conversation and it evolves over time with every generation of who lives there, and I think that's just a way of living, which is why obviously it's called intentional community.
Peter:People are intending to live in a community in that way and that's so important for people who just don't like this individuality of living and being in that place on their own and looking after all the stuff that comes with it.
Peter:It's shared responsibility. So you know your neighbor might really prefer the financial stuff and you might like the more creative stuff and putting, you know, putting the group gatherings on, and you know it's just finding within that, within within that community, who's good at what and working those things out and just keeping the conversation going. And I think that that is so alien to most people. And even when we go to work, it's become so micromanaged that you're not able to speak out a turn to your boss or whatever. It might be that that you know the best companies in the world at the moment and the best housing in the world is where you have that freedom to be yourself. You know where you have that autonomy, um, but you have to respect what's around you. There are rules, there's always going to be rules in our world, but you know how do we work in a more trusting way, whether it's going to work and earning money or living in a space, we have to trust each other, and I think that's where that really comes from at the start.
Gareth:Yeah, and I can see that some people would fear sort of entering that space where they feel like they have to talk to everyone all the time and share ideas and get into conflict conversations potentially.
Gareth:I wonder, peter, if again we're looking at a false trade-off there, because very few people live on their own all the time without any contact with other people, right, and so it's not either or it's not that I'm a community person.
Gareth:I want to be surrounded by the people I live with all the time. Actually, if you live in those spaces, you probably have a big need for a private privacy and a private space and be able to escape into your own little space to get all the benefits of that individualistic lifestyle that we talk about, right? So there is a bit there, I think, where if people see what these communities are like and maybe get a taste of it, even if they're more individualistically minded they might see that okay, it's not quite what I thought it was. You know, I can see that I can actually have my own space and I can interact with the neighbours and share decisions when I feel like it's the right time for me to do that. So maybe we can open this up to a broader audience, not just people who are very community minded and very sort of willing to connect and collaborate all the time.
Peter:I think it's a great opportunity to to get rid of that false trade-off again yeah, and and I think what, what's happened, the only reference reference points we have in this space right now are the kind of um, yeah, the only reference point we have now are like eco villages or hippie. You know, every time I talk about co-housing people say that sounds like a hippie commune and it's like, well, it's the good elements of a hippie commune kind of thing. You know, they had a good time, let them be. Um, but yeah, that that thing around. We only have reference points really that are kind of the purer, truer versions of what this model is all about.
Peter:But I think the the key thing for me and the thing that I've learned through co-housing is I don't actually believe a pure community-led approach to the development works, because without the the real experience and professionalism of the people to get the job done, it'll never happen, because you know, most people who want to, who want this type of living, end up either going to something really mainstream um, where it's just run as a business, or they start it from the ground up and and it takes them, you know, 10 years. So you know, actually the balance to all this for me is bringing people, and we talk a lot about co-production, so it's bringing people who have the vision and the need and the want and desire for this type of living in line with the professionals to make it happen. But obviously, for every scheme or development or renovation or new build that's done, you know there's a set of parameters that the professionals can identify quickly. That has to be worked within you. Design the community that works for them.
Peter:It doesn't have to be like what Findhorn is or any other eco village or is. You know. It doesn't have to be like that. It's your version and you decide. And that's where the governance comes back and the design and the elements that you can be part of, where actually you can create community for like-minded people and you can decide how much social contact's managed or is just allowed to happen. And I think that's the big opportunity for this space now is to allow these new communities to happen with no reference to the purist approach. It's like let them be what they want to be and it's the fun of developing the community as time goes on, which is surely what people want to be involved in, not that you're confined to do it this way, because this is how we've always done it, absolutely.
Daniel:And definitely a lot of people have this kind of intuitive feeling that a community is a one size fits all type of exercise, and it's really not so I'm really glad you're bringing this up. If someone wants more privacy, great, let's design a community with more privacy elements, no problem. If someone wants to share some activities and not others, it's possible as well. So it's really possible to create a community based on a vision that someone has and a group of people have, and together they can shape it and make it a reality. So, definitely, there is a different type of community for different types of people and, yes, it's important to dissociate this idea with the idea of a community must be this and this only. So it's great that we mentioned that, and one of the important elements of designing a community is of the ownership structure, as we mentioned earlier as well, and here at co-living down, we talk about ownership quite a lot. In fact, we're designing alternative, new ways of ownership.
Daniel:We wrote a report as well, which is downloadable for free on our website. So for people that are interested in diving a little bit deeper into the concept of ownership, definitely head to the website. And I'd love to hear from you, peter. What can you bring? What have you discovered or designed so far? When it comes to ownership, what forms or new forms of ownership can effectively foster community living? Yeah, I mean I think.
Peter:I think this, this, this is the key change in in in conventional housing to coming into something more vibrant and community. I think that this whole thing about ownership and what people own is so important. Yeah, and I think for us, because we are rooted at the moment in cooperatives, the thing that we've designed and developed and we're just waiting to get it signed off by the financial conduct authority in the uk is a mutual home ownership society which is based on sociocracy, so a governance. Governance is at its core, but the mutual ownership, you know, is where you you as a tenant, you know, around affordability, you're, you have a tenant, so you have a say, and then, additional to that, we have an investor stake and a community share stake. So there's these different ways that you can be part of that community. You can obviously be a tenant, but you can also invest and put money in and get a rate of return, if you like, which is probably more linked to local wages than it is to the market housing bubble.
Peter:So we're trying to remove from the market housing bubble you know this need for growth and we're looking to, you know, build affordability in there for in perpetuity.
Peter:So the different levels of access for people comes based on, obviously, the size of space that you would want in that property, but you never own it.
Peter:You know you have shares relevant to the space that you have and the amount of money that you put in to help the project grow.
Peter:And then you know, obviously that enables them, through the investor share, where we can also bring in outside investment. That doesn't have an impact on the stewarding and the governance of the community itself, you know so they don't have a say necessarily in how people live, as long as their money is, you know, protected. So really, what we're trying to do is is have is have a sort of link to conventional equity and ownership in a house, but actually you never own the house, you just own the shares and you know it can be replaced as time moves on, um, but built into that, you know it is, is, we think, where this link with kind of the blockchain mentality around tokenization and contribution comes in that we can build in other contributions that over time could become a, a linked value to what's perceived as monetary. So you know, if you do more work in the community or you're, you know you're recognised for roles that you take on, that that then can be linked back to the value and the shares that you own, and we can develop different mechanisms in there.
Peter:So, at its core. Our mutual home ownership society is very much a cooperative and financial kind of rental ownership equity stake, but it's got the capability and the freedom to really link, I think, probably where you guys are coming more from in terms of that kind of contribution to community, and that's a real. I think it's an opportunity for us to speak a lot more. But you know, I think that's where it's really kind of like we can't stay with what we all perceive as the only way that the market thinks we should own property. You know, we have to experiment and come up with new ways and I suppose it just comes down to where you are in that jurisdiction and what you're, you know, you're comfortable with. So, yeah, so for us it's very much around this kind of cooperative, trying to link it to as much kind of normal approaches to ownership as possible, but really leaning hard into this kind of cooperative way of life where you are, you know, cooperating on all level, whether it's financial, social or environmental that's great.
Gareth:There's so many overlaps actually that when you mentioned there in the structure that you're looking at, um and what we do at co-living dao, they're very, very similar intentions behind the structures, even if they're not exactly the same. So, for example, we are built on a kind of cooperative called the Fair Shares Commons and, like you're saying, with residents able to become investors, some of those elements are in there too. What's really interesting is the whole word ownership. It's almost not fit for purpose, and we pose the question to people if you have a 90% mortgage on a property, people, if you have a 90% mortgage on a property, do you truly own it? You own 10% of it and the bank will owns 90% of it and you're a minority stakeholder in your property is more accurate to say, when you have a mortgage that is barely paid off, right, and so rethinking what it means to be an owner and what it feels like to be an owner and what, what powers it gives you and what decision making power it gives you and what wealth share it gives you, is really what matters. There's not so much about the label. So, yeah, and we can definitely dive deeper on that, peter, offline it sounds like there's a lot of great overlaps there.
Gareth:Um, and the cooperative side, yeah, getting those, getting those structures in place where, like you're saying, to have the container that people can create the community and they have some structure, rather than total chaos where you know, you've got 10 hippies that come together and say let's make a commune or an eco village, but they have to literally build everything from scratch, all the governance structures, all the legal incorporations, and then it can become quite messy because, ok, what structure do we use? Then you have to have a debate about which structures are appropriate, which ones aren't. The nice thing about cooperatives, like you're saying, there's 150 plus years of history there, probably more, actually. I think the very first cooperative was over three centuries ago, in Scotland, no less. And so where are you now, peter? What stage are you at in the journey and what's next for you in creating these communities of the future?
Peter:So I mean, where we are now is, you know, we've spent seven and a half, eight years really experimenting a lot around the community led approach, helping people be the developer and go through the process. We saw we have seen so much pain for people in that and for us trying to help them. You know, because there's they've got a job, they've got a life, they've got family, got stuff, and then they're being asked to go and learn how to be a house builder. So I think where, where we are now, and what our you know kind of big idea is, is I think we're quite rooted in in rural. I think we're quite rooted in how we regenerate land and environment first and then really bring in community, uh, living as part of that solution. Solution, and I think we are no, I don't think I know we are more in tune with providing the platform for people to come and make choices and influence elements of the co-creation of the community, the co-design, what the build will be and how we'll fund it. But there's a core structure there, there's a core platform that people have to buy into to really want to come and work with us and and I feel like we're we're doing that because we are, through experience, we're taking on the burden of development for people who want it or who are interested in this, but the moment they hear about what they have to go through to get there, they disappear. So I think what's really important for us, you know, is and the biggest learning we've done is because of where I come from, you know kind of this charitable kind of help people. I want to help everybody be part of this, but I know we can't do that. I know we can't do that.
Peter:So the biggest piece of work we're doing now is to work with people who already know they want it, already know what it is, and help those achieve that in a kind of rural setting whether that is a kind of co-housing development scheme you know, where you've got individual properties within a community setting or this idea of kind of big house co-living, we call it where we probably take large properties in the countryside and create smaller versions of them that are surrounded by land where you can still grow your own food and you can still do some, you know some rewilding.
Peter:But you know it's a group of people who want to be in that place but don't want anything too big. They just maybe want, you know, to live with eight to 10 people um, in in a smaller setting. So we've kind of got this rural co-housing model, which is probably more based around how we interlink that with farms and then this kind of big house co-living, how we, how we repurpose big homes in the countryside into being more inclusive spaces for for small groups of people that's brilliant, and do you have a look?
Gareth:is there a location that you're focused on at the moment? I can hear a Northern accent there.
Peter:Yeah. So yeah, I'm up in the Northwest, kind of close to Liverpool. Most of our work has been down in East Sussex because of my business partner, so we've got a few projects going on there. We're currently completing Touchwood with one group to buy a farm actually which is already partly converted and has a lot of opportunity, and they want to do food growing and kind of get into the local community there. So I mean, that's been a long-going process for many years. We've done some other work with another potential eco-village down in Devon and helped them with their governance and a little bit of finance.
Peter:So yeah, I think the next step for us is to find more farms. I think is our next step. That, you know, don't have that succession plan. You know, maybe the farmers are getting to the end of their time and maybe the kids are off being a youtuber and don't want to be a farmer. So actually we, you know it's, how do we?
Peter:How do we help farmers transition their legacy, I suppose you know create a legacy with the farm that they don't just have to sell it or let it go, um, so they can, they can leave in peace knowing that, you know, probably generational family farm is still going to be used for good things, um, so that's really our main focus at the moment um, and we're doing okay with it, you know, we're doing okay with it.
Peter:We just, yeah, I think we're at that point where we just got to get this one over the line and test a few more and I think it become um and we're very focused on the UK. But you know, I think the the realities of this are is what we're talking about here needs to just happen everywhere, doesn't it? You know? And I think that that ability for people to move around and have that, you know, I suppose it's our dream really of that kind of membership where you could move from place to place and live for six, twelve months or five years, you know, and just just to place and live for six, 12 months or five years, you know, and just move around and it be this interconnected, intentional community is something that kind of keeps getting me up in the morning.
Gareth:It's great there's so many overlaps and we'll definitely take some of these conversations offline. We are actually based in London and Sussex, so there might be an opportunity for us to come and physically see what you're up to. Yeah, in Sussex project that you mentioned, that could be really interesting. Yeah, amazing, peter, and yeah, it's so heartening to see other people working in the same movement. You know, it's like confirmation that this is a thing. This is what people are looking for. This is not you know a fantasy. This is this is happening. Are looking for. This is not you know a fantasy. This is this is happening. It's real. There are people creating these kinds of communities.
Daniel:It's really great to see brilliant yeah, and there's definitely some of the elements that, uh, we could take offline. Uh, we are getting closer to wrapping things up. So, peter, before we end the episode, we touched on a lot of things that are really interesting. We spoke a bit about ownership, governance and other things, some things that we dive deep into in this podcast. So I'm very happy that we could add even more knowledge and perspectives for the audience as well, so that we get additional, not just expertise, but really passion and fresh ideas from multiple people. And, peter, we're very thankful and grateful for what you brought today. Any final thoughts, um, anything, any message you'd like to leave the audience with, and and in any way, uh, they can find out more about your work yeah, you can find us.
Peter:we're on most socials, affair of society, uh, fairer societycom. So that's our fairer societycom. Yeah, you, you know we, we try and we try and get our message out there as much as possible. I think my, my, my real bugbear in all these spaces I've worked in over the years that have social impact at their heart, is that we don't connect the dots enough, we don't work together enough in these spaces, because I think what's happening is because we're always and I mean this also in community and voluntary sectors and social enterprises we're kind of battling for small pots of money or to look like we're different or got some new idea.
Peter:But I think what we've touched on a lot today in this conversation is is how grounded all of this work is in in the kind of history of humankind of just being connected and with people, and whether that's working or living or owning or supporting or you know, it's all connected, it's all.
Peter:And I think all of us in this space have an opportunity to kind of drop some of those barriers and really connect our work Because at the core of it, like we've found out today, you know, at the core of what we're trying to do, it's so similar, it's so similar, but we each have our little nuance, our little difference of how we might do it, or you know what the other outcome might be?
Peter:And I think it's the burning question for me is how do we connect this more and connect our work more, because I think if we do, we'll move on to these next steps a lot quicker, rather than trying to do it all alone. And I suppose that comes back to the true sense of cooperativism and cooperating. It's like how do we find those ways to work better together? So if anyone's out there listening to this and believes in that, you know I'm always open for a conversation, for sure, of how we do that and how we work on that more. You know, that's something that I just feel lives in me. You know, in terms of I'm always trying to find a way to work with people rather than stop working with people.
Daniel:so that's the kind of the approach that's great, peter, and I think it's a beautiful way to finish this episode by reiterating the importance of connection and cooperation, really collaboration, making sure that we can all join forces and turn all this beautiful scenarios into a reality. So thank you so much for being here, peter, thank you Gareth as well, and for everyone who's listening great to have you here. Once again, make sure you subscribe to this podcast if you haven't yet, and definitely spread the word. There's surely a lot of people that you know that may be interested in the co-living dial, insights and all these conversations we have here. So make sure you subscribe, make sure you let them know and be sure to come back because, yes, we will be back very, very soon with more. So thanks everyone for being here and see you soon, soon.