Detangle by Kinjal
Detangle is a podcast created by health psychologist and writer, Dr Kinjal Goyal. Each episode is a conversation with an expert in their field, as they dive deep into their journerys and experiences. The conversations are full of insight and a great way to hear, first hand, how the mind plays a pivotal role in almost everything that we do. The guests range from doctors, to writers, to those in entertainment and of course, those from mental health fields.
Detangle by Kinjal
Detangle with Kaveri
When the quest for comfort meets the call for inclusivity, magic happens in the form of fashion that embraces every curve. Kaveri Lalchand, an acclaimed all-linen fashion designer, joins us to unfold her journey of crafting a brand that's become a beacon of body positivity. Her story, starting from a personal need for plus-sized, free-flowing garments, has blossomed into a mission to empower women, not just through the clothes they wear but also through the financial independence she fosters among her female-led team.
Our conversation takes you through the intimate relationship between our emotions and the clothes we choose, where fabric becomes a language of self-expression and healing. Kaveri and I discuss the delicate balance required to turn a passion project into a sustainable business, navigating through self-doubt and the ever-present risk of burnout. We also tackle the commitment needed from fashion brands to move beyond tokenistic nods to body positivity and actually cater to the diverse tapestry of body types that make up our society.
Closing with an impactful reflection on the psychological restraints we impose on ourselves—embodied by the image of an elephant tethered by mere twine—we contemplate the transformative power of self-acceptance. This episode is an ode to authenticity, not just in design but in the way we choose to live and perceive ourselves. Kaveri's message is clear: true style emerges when we honor our unique forms and stories, a philosophy she lives out through her enchanting linen creations. Join us for an inspiring narrative that weaves self-love into every stitch and seam.
#InclusiveFashion #BodyPositivity #KaveriLalchand #LinenFashion #EmpoweringWomen #SelfExpression #HealingThroughFashion #SustainableBusiness #SelfAcceptance #FashionDesign #FinancialIndependence #EmotionalConnection #PassionProject #DiverseBodyTypes #AuthenticityInDesign #SelfLoveJourney #FashionEmpowerment #Podcast #DetangleByKinjal #TrueStyle #InspiringNarrative #EnchantingCreations
Welcome to D-Tangle, where we untangle the complexities of life one conversation at a time. I am your host, dr Kinjal Gowil, a psychologist and a writer. If you are a fan of all things linen, just like me, you have definitely heard of Kaveri Lalchan, who is one of my favourite designers and my guest on today's episode. Being a Lakme Indian Fashion Week designer, kaveri is India's only all-linen clothing brand, with an education in design from Parsons, new York, kaveri's venture spawned from a paucity of free-flowing, customisable garments. Kaveri is a theatre artist and agate traveller too, and has big plans for the brand, making sustainability and community growth a priority. Welcome, kaveri, and thank you so much for joining me on D-Tangle today.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. It's so wonderful to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 1:Well, kaveri, there are lots of questions that I have for you. I have been following your brand, not just in terms of product, but also your social media presence, so let me start and let's see where this takes us. Kaveri, your journey is just like your line of clothes it feels very organic and there's a very deep sense of truth in it. Can you tell us about how all this started for you?
Speaker 2:Thank you for saying that, that you feel that there is a deep sense of truth to it, because that's how I truly believe. This started from a very personal space and for a very personal reason. As a bigger woman, I couldn't find the kind of clothes that I would like to wear Interesting and, of course, I love linen and I couldn't find it and I started making clothes for myself. I didn't start this brand with a pre-written business plan. I started it because there was something that I wanted. Then I realized others wanted it as well, so I started making clothes that I enjoyed wearing and soon my friends started enjoying wearing.
Speaker 2:One thing led to another. A client suggested I do a show in Bombay. I was very nervous. This was in 2012, and I took 300 garments and I sold 270 garments out of those 300. That was a real starting and a turning point in the way I thought about the clothes that I was making. I realized I touched upon something that was very, very special for women. I started with three tailors in my garden and my garage is my office and showroom, and it just grew from there, one step at a time.
Speaker 1:How lovely. I've also noticed that you have a very strong women's centric team. Kaviri, was this always your long-term plan, or has this also happened on its own?
Speaker 2:Well, again, it was in plan that I'd like to have a strong women's centric team, but it just happened. Firstly, I found that women are better workers, with so much more dedicated, passionate and excited about the work that we do. Of course, as I went along, I realized that here was an opportunity for me to give women from all types of backgrounds a chance to be financially independent. I've seen a huge change. I have so many of my team members who have been with me from day one, and these young women and young mothers have grown into such strong women who can stand up to their families or make very, very important decisions that matter.
Speaker 2:It's really wonderful, so heartening, and it is a responsibility because a lot of them look at me as a role model and I hope I'm living up to it. But it's just really wonderful to make women financially independent and yeah, so nowadays I tend to hire more women wherever possible.
Speaker 1:How empowering is that. You know there's something that I've been wanting to ask you for a very long time now. I have noticed this whole buzzword, this whole you know, the regalia around body positivity has just come into every major fashion brand. You will notice that people are advertising with you know different body types. People are bringing in all skin colors, ethnicities, but when you go into the store and when you try out clothes by these designers, you will only find a size small or extra small, so you can't even try them In your case. That's not true. You know you get sizes in all possible variants to try. So has it also been a very thought out process?
Speaker 2:Again, it comes from a very, very personal space and so there are a couple of things to this question, very, very important things. One is what exactly is body positivity? You know, body positivity doesn't mean overweight, bigger sizes and being dark. So when designers use that as a gimmick to get likes or eyeballs, it really, really upsets me. So using trying to say that you are inclusive or using it to just get more, just to drum up business, I don't think that's very correct. And what exactly is body positivity? It is the assertion that all people deserve to have a body, a positive body image. You know, we deserve to have a positive body image and it's just society and culture lays down all these rules and regulations and, especially in the fashion industry, there is a certain size chart which is considered normal. This word normal, you know, do you have normal sizes? Do you have plus sizes? The word normal is just very, very degrading, I feel, and is wrong. Because what it is? Yeah, we cannot use this word normal for talking when you talk about body shapes and sizes. And body positivity is not just how one feels about themselves or accepting themselves, it's actually a movement to try and change and challenge how society views the body you know, and promoting the acceptance of all types and then making one feel confident about the body they have. So that's what I try to do with my clothes and when I interact with my clients, I want my clothes to make a woman feel at peace with her shape, her height, her color. There's so many things I mean. Body positivity is about a height or so and scars. So I've had so many experiences where women come and say you know, I've had a surgery, can you make the sleeves longer to cover the scars? And I try and encourage her to say you know it's a scar. So what? No people look at it. I said let them. You have a fabulous story behind it. Maybe you've come out of something stronger. You've come out of something stronger and you're wearing your scar. Why must you hide it? I have women who comment and me that oh, you know, I'm so dark I can't wear bright colors. I said who stole you that? Everyone says I can't wear bright colors. I said but do you like to wear this hot pink? She said yes, would you like to wear a lime green? She says yes, she's wearing it.
Speaker 2:I feel, I hope, that in my own little way I can make women feel better about themselves. I've had clients who come and stand in front of the mirror and they don't look at themselves. They're looking at themselves neck down, because they can't even make eye contact with themselves Because they've just made to hate the way they look. For me, that is very upsetting.
Speaker 2:For me, body positivity is first learning to accept your own body and then challenging. As a fashion designer, I can then challenge what popular culture or society or the industry terms as acceptable. Then I don't use the word normal, which they term as acceptable, just spreading this awareness and also addressing unrealistic body standards. True, I was at the last Lakme Fashion Week and I was doing a fitting for the models. Suddenly I realized I was like you guys have become thinner than the last year. She said yes, because their agencies need them to be even skinnier. These girls were tiny and honestly, I didn't think they could get any thinner, but they had. That's hard to think Truly. Yeah, that's what body positivity means to me. I try to make clothes that can make women feel better about themselves and through the community that I'm trying to build and through my social media, I hope I send a message across to say just accept and love. I'm not saying you need to be healthy, but first you need to accept and love yourself.
Speaker 1:Lovely Tell me, taking this forward, when you have a team with you, is there a mission statement that your whole team has to abide by when it comes to this body positivity, Are you especially training them in client interactions? Because, let me tell you something personal I've had interactions with I mean, some definitely beautiful interactions with designers as well, but some of them have been quite nasty. When a designer is trying to pin a gaga on you and saying you do intend to lose this weight. And weren't they trained? Didn't? Because I know the designers themselves, but the staff is not in sync with the designer. So does this happen? Are you training your staff? Because your staff seems to be in sync with what is happening in your mind?
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, definitely. So it starts from even the design process. And so, starting from the design process, my cutting masters and then finals, I have a tele sales team who talk to customers over the phone or video call, and then my sales team who is on the shop floor. So, right from the start. So all I have a design team, a very, very talented design team, and we were drawn out different types of body types. And it starts from there where I say, guys, first you design for me, you know my body type and we've got so, yes, so we design garments and cuts with the different body types in mind, so that anyone who comes into the store will find something that they can wear and look good and feel good in. So yeah, in the design process itself, my primary concern is comfort and fit. And then, when we're going down to cutting, our cutting masters have also been trained to understand measurements and cut the garments accordingly, give a little extra pleat there or a fold, or take it in when somebody has droopy shoulders.
Speaker 2:You know, you might have noticed some people are always constantly pulling their garments forward. That's only because it doesn't sit well. So small things like the proportion, body proportion. So they've been trained a lot because we do a lot of customized garments. So one thing that I would again from personal experience, I've had similar experiences like you have, when I've gone to designers.
Speaker 2:I've been paying them a lot of money and you're ordering something for yourself and then you're made to feel bad about it and they don't know little things that you can, technical things that you can do with the fabric that will help it flow and fit better over your body. Like I said, add a replete or change the style a little bit to accommodate someone's body type. So my cutting masters have got that training as well. And when we do customize garments over the phone, we encourage customers to send in their photographs and yes, I've trained them extensively to be able to look at a customer, her body, suggest garments that will fit, suggest little tweaks that will work. And definitely, on the shop floor you will be always welcome and no one will try to make you feel bad for your body type.
Speaker 1:True, so tell me, Kavira, on a very personal note has there ever been a pivotal moment or this moment of total inspiration which influences you even today, Somebody who influenced you in the early?
Speaker 2:years maybe. I think there's not just one pivotal moment. I've been now doing this for about 11 to 12 years now and every day there has been a new learning. I think, like I said, the one pivotal moment was when I took my clothes to Bombay and I suddenly realized there were so many people who appreciated them and for me, the final surface, text, embellishments or the making it really the kind of embroideries or the prints that I do on it, that comes on later, it's first the color, the fit, the flow, and I couldn't say it's one pivotal moment. But just as I went along, the kind of reactions that I get, the customer's feedback, the messages that come in, yeah, not one, it's just constant, always, always learning and appreciating and growing.
Speaker 1:I would love to know about this has there ever been any particular feedback from a client that has really touched your heart or absolutely broken it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I said, that one client who came in and couldn't look at herself in the mirror you know that really broke my heart Clients who come back and return the garments because they say that their family members didn't like it, though they loved it. And they very sadly returned garments and I took it back and they ended up wearing something that they didn't particularly like but the others around them would like. Then there have been also very, very heartening moments where I get messages saying that when I'm not feeling too good or I need a little pick me up, yours is the garment that I wear. When I have to make an important presentation at work, I'll choose your outfit. There was one client who came into the store and she was wearing a Selvarkamese with Tikka and I said I told her Sonali, I've never seen you wearing Indian clothes before. She said Nya Kavri, today is my mother's one year death anniversary and it was just getting too much and I just needed to get away and I saw that on Insta that you were in the store today in Bombay. So I just came just for a little pick me up.
Speaker 2:So what I try to create in my stores is like a little safe space for a woman to get away and it's very uplifting and welcoming and she comes in and there's a comfortable sofa for her to sit on. We offer her a nice soothing cup of maybe chamomile or high-biscuity or anything she would like, and it's just a little space to get away and I find that a lot happening and people come and they stay for a long time. My store is not a store where one comes in and goes out. People come and spend an average of 45 minutes in the store just being there, taking a breather and chatting with the staff and it's really wonderful, how lovely.
Speaker 1:See, some things you can't buy, some things you just have to grow into. So I think this is one of those for you. Also, tell me, is there something that you wish somebody had taught you early on in your journey or in your career?
Speaker 2:Some of the best businesses are born out of passions something you're really passionate about, really believing and I am that kind of person. I'm a very, very passionate person, but many times, business and being overly passionate and overly emotional doesn't really go well together. So, yes, I wish someone had sat me down and I was a little bit more careful about numbers and planning, but it's been a fabulous learning and I love it. And I believe that one has to go through everything and then grow out of it stronger. And you have to make the mistakes for yourself, though I'd like to save time and learn from other people's mistakes, but some mistakes you need to make so that you become all the more wiser. But, yes, if I had a little bit more someone overlooking my shoulder about numbers and finances, that would have been a big help. And also, if you know, when you learn, to believe in yourself a little bit more and not be constantly swayed by self-doubts, which sometimes happens, of course, and that's again all part of your process and journey and growth.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that's a little bit of that, if I had that in advance, that would have helped. So tell me, coming to this self-doubt, was there any time that so much doubt crept into you or you had so much mental burnout that you wondered why haven't you quit yet and what you're doing in this process?
Speaker 2:Well see, the self-doubt was again for me, not about what I was doing, but not about the clothes that I was making. It was. You know, everything is a growing, is a growth and a journey and a learning. So while I started this out as a passion, then I started growing it as a business. A little bit self-doubts came in there, but no, everything can be fixed and you just move on. Of course, the pandemic's coming in didn't really help, but then that's when I grew all the more stronger Mental burnout.
Speaker 2:No, it hasn't happened as yet and I don't think it will, because I just keep things fresh and moving all the time. It's just there's just something happening all the time and it's just very exciting and it's like I go to bed at night thinking I wish it's morning up. You know, can you like, can you hurry up? I want it to be morning again.
Speaker 1:How beautiful is that? I mean, the only way to really be fantastic. So let me ask you a question which is more generic now. Women and of course men, have been struggling with their bodies even more now than it was in the past, despite this whole movement and everyone talking about body positivity, not body shaming, when they can. But I think a lot of fashion brands should come together and do something about it at that level, because that's where fashion and body myth starts. So what is your suggestion or what would you hope that the other fashion brands also start doing to kind of build momentum into this?
Speaker 2:You know this is a very, very touchy topic, especially in this industry. It's very touchy and I cannot speak for anybody else and I cannot even think of trying to get people together. It's a very, very touchy topic. Like I said, if you're using different, if you're using the concept of body positivity just as a marketing gimmick, then it doesn't go well with me and I think if each designer does what they believe in, strongly believe in, so I'm doing my bit. I don't see the industry changing very soon, but we can change our own perceptions. I change my client's perceptions and help hopefully to percolate through society. Through that kind of awareness, I feel the change can happen more in our level as opposed to the industry level. That's my thought.
Speaker 1:Right, let me restructure this question and ask you again what would be the advice that you would give somebody who's just starting out? Let's say somebody comes and asks you for that one gem or that one pearl of wisdom when they're starting out as a designer. What would you tell them?
Speaker 2:I would tell them to first understand why you're doing this. Is there like some sort of creative outburst that you're having that you want to create something? Is it that you're passionate about textiles? What is it that you want to do? I knew very clearly that I wanted to make clothes that would fit all body types and that were comfortable and that would enhance the way a woman felt about themselves. So my clothes are for feeling good and then you will automatically look good. So I tell a person to understand why they're doing what they're doing and then to just keep at it.
Speaker 1:Lovely. That sounds very empowering. Tell me, what part of this work do you enjoy the most. Is it the designing bit or the role of a businesswoman who's empowering others also? What part feels more like yourself?
Speaker 2:My favorite place to be is in my factory, To be sitting there with the whole team creating things. That's where the magic happens, where all the creation happens, Experimenting. I love to experiment. A lot of R&D. We brought in, introduced a lot of new techniques that are all self-taught. So just being in the factory, at the place where it's being created, that's one of my favorite places. And then, of course, when I'm on the shop floor and interacting with people and clients and customers and friends, and then I see those creations actually being worn and appreciated by someone. That's really exciting. So when I make new styles, sometimes the first time I see it worn is when a client is wearing it and I'm like, please can I just see it on you, because it's been on paper all this while, and then we've created it, but actually someone wearing it. It looks different, it wears different, it falls different. It's just so exciting. So I think for me it's every aspect of the business that really excites me. I mean traveling to new places, meeting new people. Just I do everything. How?
Speaker 1:lovely. Yeah, let me ask you something more personal. We all know what's a physical first aid kit, right? Something that we keep in our homes for those minor cuts and bruises when you don't really need a doctor, but you need to take care of yourself. You'll probably put some band-aid, some antiseptic lotion, etc. In it. But we have some of these days when we need an emotional pick-me-up. Then we're emotionally bruised when we are not feeling all right, and for this I ask my guests and my clients to keep an emotional first aid box or a mental first aid box which you can just open at any time and it'll give you that feel-good feeling immediately. So if you, as Kaveri, were to have your own emotional first aid box, what would you put in it?
Speaker 2:Well, for me, I turn to prayer. That's prayer and meditation. Prayer is what I turn to first. Being with my family is my mental band-aid, then just maybe then I'll listen to music. But I would say prayer and family for me is the most important thing.
Speaker 1:Great. As we near the end of our conversation, Kaveri, I always leave the floor open to my guests. Is there anything that you would like to ask me as a psychologist?
Speaker 2:Ah, okay. So how do we get people to stop being so judgmental of others?
Speaker 1:I think it starts with ourselves. There's a very beautiful saying that your compassion is incomplete if it doesn't include you. So before we stop judging others, we'll have to stop judging ourselves, but we judge ourselves based on the inputs we get. Well, yes and no. Sometimes we judge ourselves based on that little voice in our head, which maybe was planted long ago is irrelevant now.
Speaker 1:So there is a warmth we need towards ourselves also, of course, when it comes to judging others, there's a very basic idea that it works for everyone. We are judging not because we dislike the person. We are judging because it gives us power. We realize that we are trying to empower ourselves through negativity. We will automatically stop and once you accept that you are okay, everything else starts looking okay. You know, this is like that elephant story when that baby elephant is tied with a little twine and he can't break free. But when he becomes this huge beast, he still can't break free, despite being more powerful than the twine now, because in his head he feels that he's tied down. So in this way, the little voice in our head keeps us back and we don't know that we have outgrown it. We are powerful, we are empowered and we can move on. So to answer that question, I think we really need to start accepting ourselves first. It's difficult, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think it is the most difficult thing right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, while it's been a great conversation, gaviri, I have always wanted to ask you these questions. I have always wanted to know what was behind these beautiful designs, this beautiful thought and, like I said in the beginning, there is something very organic which comes across not just in your designs, but also in the way your social media field presents itself. I enjoy looking through it. I would tell all my listeners please follow Gaviri. She's on Instagram at by Gaviri. Is it that right?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You'll see a lot of natural designs. You'll see a lot of beautiful moments. So share in it with her, enjoy it with her, and thank you, gaviri, for sharing this beautiful journey with us. I wish you all the best and lots and lots of love and light in the future.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much, and thank you so much for having me.
