Detangle by Kinjal
Detangle is a podcast created by health psychologist and writer, Dr Kinjal Goyal. Each episode is a conversation with an expert in their field, as they dive deep into their journerys and experiences. The conversations are full of insight and a great way to hear, first hand, how the mind plays a pivotal role in almost everything that we do. The guests range from doctors, to writers, to those in entertainment and of course, those from mental health fields.
Detangle by Kinjal
Detangle with Anita Dongre
It is magical to see how a spark of passion for design can ignite a revolution in sustainable fashion! That's the compelling narrative we unravel with Anita Dongre, a pioneer who has woven her personal ethos of veganism and cruelty-free practices into the very fabric of her brand. Her journey isn't just about the silhouettes and patterns; it's a crusade for ethical fashion that's reshaping the industry. Join us as Anita opens up about her path, from her humble beginnings to her rise as a beacon of positive change, proving that true style never has to compromise on values.
Navigating the world of fashion requires more than a keen eye for style; it demands resilience and the ability to learn from setbacks. Our conversation with Anita doesn't shy away from the gritty realities of building a fashion empire. We dissect the challenges of gender disparities, revel in the joys of creation, and confront the scourge of design plagiarism. Through personal anecdotes and heartfelt wisdom, we offer a glimpse into the highs and lows that fashion designers face, crafting a narrative that's as textured as the fabrics they work with.
When the pressures mount and the runway lights fade, how does one tend to their mental wellbeing? We dive into the concept of a mental first aid kit, discussing the tools we each turn to during life's tougher chapters. Anita shares her letter of wisdom, a personal beacon during stormy times, and the profound impact of family support, especially the resilience inherited from her mother. Our exchange extends to managing generational dynamics in the workplace and the importance of communication. This episode is a tapestry of insights, not only for those in fashion but for anyone seeking to blend their passions with their principles.
#PassionForDesign #SustainableFashionRevolution #EthicalFashion #AnitaDongre #CrueltyFreeFashion #FashionEmpowerment #ResilienceInFashion #GenderDisparitiesInFashion #FashionCreation #DesignPlagiarism #FashionIndustryChallenges #FashionDesignersJourney #FashionEmpireBuilding #MentalWellbeing #MentalHealthAwareness #PersonalWisdom #FamilySupport #GenerationalDynamics #WorkplaceCommunication #BlendPassionWithPrinciples #FashionNarrative #FashionInsights #FashionEthos #FashionValues #FashionRevolution #FashionCommunity #FashionInspiration #FashionVisionary #Detangle
Welcome to D-Tangle, where we untangle the complexities of life one conversation at a time. I'm your host, dr Kinjal Goel, a psychologist and a writer. Our guest today is the leading lady of fashion in India, ms Anita Dongre. Starting off small, anita now has an employee base of over 2,800 individuals and thousands of independent artisans working towards a sustainable business practice. The seventh most Google fashion designer worldwide. She has also been featured on various prestigious lists, including Forbes 50 over 50 and Forbes India's list of most powerful business women. For me, she is the ultimate inspiration, but she is a member of FETA and her products and clothes are 100% vegan and cruelty free. Welcome to D-Tangle, anita, and thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for this very kind introduction.
Speaker 1:Well, anita, there's so many things that I want to ask you about your label, about your work, your journey. Let's get started with the questions and let's see where they lead us. So let's talk about your inspiration and the beginning of your journey. Lead us in. How did you start and when did you reach your tipping point?
Speaker 2:You know I'm very fortunate that I had a very young age new that I wanted to take up fashion design. I realized at the age of 15, when I was in my 10th grade, and then I looked for fashion designing courses and I found S&D when I was in my 12th grade and that's it. I think the week I entered that college I realized that I love what I do. You know, previously I was not a great. I was a very average student in school and very average student in college, I think only because whatever interested me I wasn't doing. But once I got into S&D I really, really I think I blossomed. It's so way back then. But I left college and then started work for two, three years for some experience and then I started the business from my home.
Speaker 1:How nice. So it's very different nowadays to hear of people who know what they want to do so early on. A lot of youngsters are floundering when they're in their 10th grade, you know.
Speaker 2:but I think that's okay. I don't think we should expect every 15 year old to know what they want to do. It's everybody's journey is different and I think it's so important for young people to try out a few if they're not sure of what they want to do. You know, do probably small internships, visit a few places and they can take their time. Somebody will know what they want to do at 15, somebody will know what they want to do at 30, somebody at 25, but it's all depends on your own journey.
Speaker 1:True, everyone has a different time to blossom. Yes, yes. So, anitha, let's talk about your brand. What makes me very excited about the brand is that it's so boldly and proudly vegan no animal abuse, no animal products. Is this a personal value you've always had, or a family value that you've brought in?
Speaker 2:You know it's a very personal value and a family value, both, I think you know we come from a family I come from a Sindhi family and non-veg is eaten, though my parents didn't eat it that regularly, but maybe once or twice a month when we were entertaining. We basically brought up on a vegetarian diet but, yes, as a young kid I did eat mutton and fish and chicken was, you know, fed to us, I think. When I was about 13 or 14, I got transformed. I saw goat being taken for slaughter and I saw the look in that animal's eyes. You know so much of fear and so much of pain and I don't think I could ever eat after that. And then most of my siblings, all of us, became vegetarians.
Speaker 2:Some of us are vegans, some are vegetarian, and since then I just have a deep love for animals because they don't have a voice and I think humanity has exploited animals since centuries and we continue exploiting animals for our own selfish needs and this is my personal philosophy and I know you know so many debates start on this veg, non-veg situation.
Speaker 2:True, I just I think everybody has to live their life by their personal beliefs and philosophies and this is my personal belief that I don't want to eat an animal. I don't want to be part of that pain and suffering an animal goes through when an animal is slaughtered and yeah, it's. It's just my belief that I don't want to. I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to create any any, I don't want to create, I don't want to be the one who's creating violence, because I think animals die a very violent step and I think today, this just to, and you know, especially today, when animals are factory farmed, that really, really pains me, because they're being farmed to be killed Eventually. They're, you know, they are raised in terrible, terrible, terrible conditions. So I wish for a world where every animal was free and every animal was a free being.
Speaker 1:It's quite encouraging in the international market also Now. I have not bought leather in the last 10 years, but there were no options earlier now.
Speaker 2:The leather industry is a huge, huge abuser of animals.
Speaker 1:But now you see a lot more options, even in the larger luxury brands. Now there are so many vegan options which were missing a few years ago, so I think we're all headed in the right direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's what we are also doing in the brand. We are in constant touch with manufacturers who are making alternates to animal leather and there's so much research going on in this field leathers from mushroom, leathers from different pineapple stem, a lot of fruits wastage has been converted into leather, so I don't think we need to use animal leather. There are a lot of alternates now available and there are a lot more going to come in. Those. All these new materials almost look like and feel like and have the same properties as animal leather, so one doesn't really need to buy animal. Buy an animal leather bag to look fashionable, because I don't think another animal's pain should be or something that you flaunt.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more. Let's talk about emotional and personal space. Does this reflect in your designs? Has there been, let's say, a collection that reflected how you were feeling in the few months prior?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, I think. As a woman designer and a very emotional human being, for that matter, I think for me, creation is an emotional process. I think design has to come from within, and it's a combination of from within. It's a combination of observing what's happening around you. It's a combination of taking inspiration from around you, but then, ultimately, it comes from what you feel within you. What do you want to? You know, how do you want to express what you're feeling currently, and which is why it keeps evolving, it keeps changing, and which is why I find design very, very exciting. Whatever you do tomorrow, you don't you know what you're doing tomorrow you've not done today. Every day is a different day.
Speaker 1:So basically saying you can't be the same designer twice what you are today, you're not tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. You're growing, you're evolving and, in that sense, your designs will always reflect that change you are going through within as a person, yourselves. How lovely.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about what fashion does to the people who consume it. Now, there are two very different things that can happen. It can empower people. It can also make people body conscious at times. So what are your thoughts on this? I mean, how do you distinguish that one should feel empowered and not conscious?
Speaker 2:I think that this is the most exciting part of my job. I think what really really makes me happiest is when I created a design and I happen to be at one of my stores and I see somebody wear it and the emotion that goes to that person's mind at that time. When I'm in the store and I see a 2B bride walk in and find her dream length and she wears that and she comes out of that trial room, and what she feels, or when it's a young girl of 18, 19 who's buying her first Lenga, I'll never forget that I had a very close friend's daughter who came in to get her first Lenga. You know, she just finished her graduation. She never worn a Lenga and we outfitted her in this beautiful Lenga Chodi and she just came out of the trial room and she just kept looking at her and said, oh my God, I'm feeling so wonderful, I'm feeling so feminine, I'm feeling I'm feeling like a woman and she looked so different. You know, in a Lenga Chodi whether it's a girl wearing a saree for the first time.
Speaker 2:I think what I love about fashion is the emotions it brings within you. I meet men who tell me you know, I my when I met my wife and when I went on the first date she was wearing this red dress and when I asked her where it's from, she said it's from your brand. So I just think fashion and clothing has so many memories and so many emotions and and it's so empowering. You know today, if you're wearing the right outfit, as a woman or a man, you're ready to face the world. You wake up in the morning and just wearing the right clothes can take your confidence level up another. You know 10, 100%. So clothing is empowering, clothing is gives you confidence and clothing makes you feel good.
Speaker 2:A well cut garment just makes you feel wonderful about yourself. It makes you feel you can take on the world. It's special what you wear for special occasions. You'll always remember. You know, this is what I wore, this is how I felt in it. I think to me it's pure emotion. And then today, as a maker, I just feel that you know what am I? I'm just a catalyst between. I try to work with a lot of women artisans. I try as far as possible. So for me, fashion is I'm this creator who is the catalyst, who is creating designs so that, you know, a woman somewhere in rural India can embroider or stitch and empower her family, and some other woman in maybe New York or London or Dubai would be wearing it and it makes her day beautiful.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's so nice, it's such a beautiful way to actually bring the world together, I mean yeah, I just feel this is where I'm bringing the world together.
Speaker 2:There's a woman wearing this somewhere in the western part of the world and then some others in a little village, or woman is you know, embroidering it and and it's just so beautiful. I just think, yeah, I love, I love that about my job.
Speaker 1:How nice that there are such subtle yet powerful values that you bring into your workspace. How do you bring this to your whole team, I mean, you know, from production to sales. The mindset has to be the same, isn't it? But is it a tough job for you?
Speaker 2:Well, it's not a tough job, because I think, as a founder, you should first of all, lead by example.
Speaker 2:And now that the organization is so large and it's not a small you know, it's not a one store business where I could, you know, talk to the teams personally and tell them how I would like to, how I would like them to conduct themselves. But we have trainers who train the front end people and I must say they do a fantastic job of it. And I've always told the trainers and I've always told my front end team that everybody who walks into the store, you have to treat them as a guest in your own house. You know, you have to make sure that they are very well looked after and taken care of, and I think the glowing comments we get on our customer care IDs is just proof of that. We did the most amazing reviews where they say that you know we were so well looked after and I'm just so proud of my team and I read reviews like that. So one tries, one tries to ensure that everybody follows this.
Speaker 1:Is there something that you learned, which you know? Probably you didn't learn in college, about the deep connection between fashion and the mind, let's say, with color or with style? Do certain colors evoke certain emotions? What's your take on this?
Speaker 2:In college I was too young to understand the you know, the direct relation between emotion and fashion. I mean, obviously I just went there to study as a student and I was so new to that world. But over time obviously one has understood that colors have their own, you know, have their own emotion. How I'm feeling is important to fashion Something when I discovered. Much later, as you evolve, you discover this True.
Speaker 1:So if I were to ask you to give your 20 year old self-sum advice maybe a younger self-sum advice personal, professional either what would it be?
Speaker 2:I know. I mean there's so much I would have done. I mean there are definitely things I would have done differently. But I suppose you're meant to make a few mistakes and that itself becomes your own learning and your own journey, because I don't think anybody's journey can be one smooth ride. I think our lives are meant to be a little bumpy and have a few twists and turns, and probably that makes them exciting. If everything went smooth it would probably get boring. So I have made my share of mistakes. When I think back, but I've learned from those mistakes and I just think a wise person tries and avoids making that same mistake twice.
Speaker 2:No True, we all have to learn. I mean, anybody can tell you what they can tell you. But I think till you don't go through, till you don't make your own mistakes, it's never a learning. You have to experience all that yourself to know that I could have done this better. But call it all. I'm blessed and fortunate. It's been a great journey and I still have a long way to go. I'm grateful for everything that's come my way. I mean I know I've put in a lot of hard work, but I think everyone works hard. But I think sometimes there's a divine grace that comes in and makes things happen, and I'm always mindful and grateful for that divine grace.
Speaker 1:I think this attitude of gratitude is very important, no matter how big you are as a company or how small you are as a company. Gratitude towards everything just elevates the experience of work, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Lovely. So let me ask you if you were to give advice to a younger designer who's just starting out, do you think that everyone needs a formal education and fashion, or do you think sometimes it's just an inherent skill that people can use even without a formal education?
Speaker 2:I think if you're inherently skilled and you don't have a formal education, you'll still do fine. But at the same time, a formal education is just so nice. It's so lovely to be a student and to learn. Oh well, you know, you learn from the best professors in the business. Most of our institutes today have some amazing teachers, so I would advise everyone to take a formal training. I mean, why not? If you can afford it, please do a formal training. Yes, if you're talented, you learn on the job. But you'll never forget those years in college because they're just so precious.
Speaker 1:Well, that is a really nice perspective, because you can never be a student at that age again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and just enjoy being a student and enjoy learning and enjoy speaking to your teachers, because that's never going to come back. You're going to miss all of this.
Speaker 1:I agree. So let's talk about the authority gap. In most businesses, men are taken more seriously than women. Women have to prove themselves a little bit more. You know you have to speak a little bit louder to be heard. Do you think this also exists in the fashion business?
Speaker 2:Absolutely it does.
Speaker 2:It just exists everywhere, regardless of what profession you're in. I think it's such deep conditioning in our country that all in the world or lower, not just in our country I think this is a problem faced all over the world, and I think now the times have changed and now women are more and more in the workforce and everyone is talking about gender equality, and I think there's so much change that has happened in the last decade and so much more will happen in the coming years. But there definitely is a difference, and it's just so sad that women have to work twice as hard, but they do to prove themselves. I mean, they're anyway doing a double job, they're anyway looking out of the home, and there's just no gender equality, because the woman is expected to even run her home and if she wants a career, she's got to still do that, and so I think really what we all have to aim for is when it's a gender equal world where the man also takes responsibility in the house, if both of them are working outside the house too.
Speaker 1:Actually there is no way around it. I mean, we can't expect anything to come about unless this happens.
Speaker 2:Like we're getting there. I think the last decade has been so much change has come in.
Speaker 1:So I had this very funny experience recently. Just last week I was getting an email from a company where we were collaborating on something and they kept referring to me as Sir. Now, because they were an international company, I gave them the benefit of the doubt they would refer to me as Dr Groel and Sir. So I connected them that I'm a lady and I go by she, her. So immediately they started referring to me as Ma'am, but they removed Doctor, so I was then only Kinjal, although my credentials remain the same. But they just did not use the title anymore than I had to correct them again that you have to use my correct title. So I think this is very inherent. You know, women gets a person name. True, absolutely true. Well, we hope that this change is soon enough. So tell me very personally what parts of fashion excite you the most and what is the most heartbreaking part of this work.
Speaker 2:What excites me most is creating. I mean, I really don't enjoy the operational side of the business Though as being a founder, I have to be involved in the operational side too but what I really, really enjoy is designing, creating, traveling, discovering craft, discovering how I can transform lives, heartbreaking. There are so many things that are heartbreaking. Heartbreaking is sometimes when our designs get ruthlessly copied by copycat brands and I sold at one tenth of the price. I mean designs that one labor is over for one year to create, say a print or an embroidery, and it gets copied within minutes of it appearing on Instagram. That breaks my heart because original design has to have a value. You've spent months and months doing that and it's so easy and so quick to copy. And then what breaks my heart is when customers go buying those copies knowing it's an Anita Dongree copy. That truly breaks my heart. I really think the customers should now start.
Speaker 1:Being a little more fiercely loyal. Yes, yes, I agree. I think this is something that the onus falls completely on the customer, that, if you know it, stay away from it.
Speaker 2:Yes, at least try to.
Speaker 1:So, anita, let me ask you a personal question that I ask all my guests. We all know what's a physical first aid box, something in which we keep some band-aids, maybe some painkillers, some antiseptic for those minor cuts and bruises. But if you were to keep a mental first aid box with things which make you instantly happy for those days when you're emotionally run down and you just want to take care of your emotions, what would you put in a box like this which, the minute you open, you would feel really happy?
Speaker 2:Well, I do. I have a little notes to myself which is on my iPad and on my phone. It's like a little letter to Anita which I have written to myself for days when I feel down and out. It's just some wisdom that I've gained over my life with aapaas and over the years which is put in a long, long letter to me and I just read that and then I feel centered and I feel fine. That's one thing I do, and the second thing is would be just to call my mom or maybe go see her, because to me she's such an inspiration of, of resilience that just being with her also just takes me in a very, very happy space.
Speaker 1:How nice. That seems like a really effective first aid box.
Speaker 2:I mean, you have something which is family, anyone in the family mom mostly, but I have two sisters. I have three brothers in a very close knit family. So just spending time with family is my first aid kit and that led to myself.
Speaker 1:How nice. I think I'm going to have this as a takeaway. You know, putting in something to yourself and keeping it handy can actually help a lot of us when we are having bad days.
Speaker 2:So yeah, you got to be your own healer because you know, you know, you know your mind is gone in straight in a different direction because it's just bringing the mind back to awareness, to gratitude, to just stuff like that. I think, gratitude and awareness.
Speaker 1:How nice. Well, this one I'm going to try to rate. So, before we come to an end of this discussion, is there any question that you would like to ask me as a psychologist?
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, that's so interesting. Yeah, I mean, you know, I I started the business 40 years ago. Now there's a lot of young people who work in the company and you know there's so much being said about Gen Z, gen Y, and the way they think and the way they so. And you know, in a company or where you're not today, dealing with various generations, right from somebody who is 60 to somebody who's as young as 21, 22. And I kind of, how do you, how do you communicate with them? So that you know, yeah, how do you communicate with so many different generations? Because I think this, this they need different communication skills.
Speaker 1:I think this is one of the most pertinent questions anybody has asked. I mean, this is something parents struggle with, this is something employers struggle with and this is something employees also struggle with, because, at the end of the day, everybody needs great communication for any kind of success.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think if you've understood that, you know a generation has changed. That is your first step in awareness. What happened earlier is generations changed every maybe 10 to 15 years, but now generations are changing every two years.
Speaker 1:You know they come up with a new mindset, they are so different and understanding what they need, maybe not accepting all of it, but just understanding things, that awareness, for example, instant gratification. So if there is a younger employee who needs, like you know, an instant bonus or an instant validation for good work, it might work better for them rather than for an older employee who might be very happy doing great work over six months and then being applauded. That's what.
Speaker 2:I'm learning. Now I'm just reading up a lot and I'm learning, and I'm learning to communicate differently with different people. I realize that I can't change the person opposite me, but I have to change every time I talk to a different person.
Speaker 1:Oh, and it can be a total game changer.
Speaker 2:I mean once you know that.
Speaker 1:You know the person in front is from a different generation altogether and they can be very effective. I mean, I think this next generation is very powerful If communication.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So when I asked this mental first aid box question usually my podcast guests are, you know, in the same age group and they have been working for at least two or three decades and I get very nice metaphysical answers. I get beautiful boxes. I asked this question to my 14 year old daughter and she said mom, you know, I'll put all of these nice things, but I'll also put a ward of cash, because I also need retail therapy at times.
Speaker 2:And I said I spoke like a true 14 year old, and it's true it works, so why not?
Speaker 1:They know what works for them, you know the generation is indeed powerful and they're quite centered into what they want.
Speaker 1:But, it's been such a nice conversation, anita. I mean from all the experience that you've brought into the conversation. There's so much that we can actually see. When you look at a fashion brand, all you see is luxury and comfort and beauty, but you know all these artisans working in the background, these dots being joined, this whole picture being formed across the globe. I think it's magnificent. So thank you for showing this part to us and thank you for joining me on data angle. It's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
