Detangle by Kinjal
Detangle is a podcast created by health psychologist and writer, Dr Kinjal Goyal. Each episode is a conversation with an expert in their field, as they dive deep into their journerys and experiences. The conversations are full of insight and a great way to hear, first hand, how the mind plays a pivotal role in almost everything that we do. The guests range from doctors, to writers, to those in entertainment and of course, those from mental health fields.
Detangle by Kinjal
Detangle with Dr. Dinshaw Pardiwala
Step into the dynamic realm where physical performance meets mental resilience. Join me as we welcome Dr. Dinshaw Pardiwala, a trailblazer in athlete care, who shares his inspiring journey from a family of professionals to becoming a pivotal figure in the world of elite sports. Together, we explore the unique challenges of managing the toll of age on high-performing athletes and the immense pressure faced by experts working behind the scenes at global events like the Olympics.
Discover powerful stories of perseverance and grit, as we spotlight athletes who have defied the odds to return to the top of their game. Learn how cricketer Rishabh Pant staged a remarkable comeback after a life-altering accident and how badminton star HS Prannoy triumphed over chikungunya just in time for the Olympics. These stories reveal the unyielding determination and inner strength that define champions.
Behind every athlete’s success are unsung heroes whose relentless dedication keeps them at their best. Our conversation highlights the incredible teamwork, expertise, and personalized strategies that enable athletes to shine. We delve into the art of crafting guidance that aligns with each athlete’s unique personality, striking the perfect balance between technical precision and emotional connection.
As we conclude, we celebrate the extraordinary commitment required to elevate every aspect of an athlete’s journey, leaving listeners with a profound appreciation for those who play a vital role in these remarkable achievements.
Welcome to Detangle, where we untangle the complexities of life one conversation at a time. I'm your host, Dr Kinjal Goel, a psychologist and a writer. We have a superstar for guests today, in his own unique way. We have with us Dr Dinshaw Pardhiwala. Dr Pardhiwala is the head of the Center of Sports Medicine and the director of the Arthroscopy Service at the Kokila Ben Dhirubhai Ambani Hospital, Mumbai. Besides being the chief medical officer for the Indian Olympic contingent at Paris 24, he is India's representative at the ICC Medical Advisory Committee. He's also the go-to doctor for the BCCI and the National Cricket Academy. Welcome, Doc. I can't tell you how happy I am to have you on my show today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for the invitation, Kinja.
Speaker 1:It's a real pleasure to talk to you this afternoon. Well, doc, we have a lot of questions for you. There are a lot of overlaps in the field of psychology and orthopedics, although they are lesser known. So let's delve into the questions and let's see what they bring us. Certainly so, Doc, bring us into your journey. First, how did this interest towards orthopedics develop? Was it something that intrigued you since childhood? Did somebody inspire you at some stage?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I come from a family of doctors and I think earlier on itself in my life, I think, the ability to be of service to someone in pain or having an injury, I think, always appealed to me, and I suspect it was about the age of maybe 16 or 17 years that I decided that I would pursue medicine.
Speaker 2:And then, once I went into medicine because I was active in sports as a child, I think orthopedics became sort of the natural sort of. You know I reared towards orthopedics, because anyone who plays sports tends to understand movement. Orthopedics and sports medicine, which is, you know, like almost like a branch of orthopedics, became an attractive sort of option, and so that's how I landed up in orthopedics. And then from orthopedics, once I was in orthopedics, it was just, you know, a natural flow into sports orthopedics. And then from orthopedics, once I was in orthopedics, it was just a natural flow into sports orthopedics and injuries, and that's the sort of happy space that I would have liked and that's how it worked out. So I was really happy that it all worked out the way I wanted it to be.
Speaker 1:How beautiful. So this was actually my next question, the seamless integration of sports medicine and orthopedics. But do you play regularly, even now?
Speaker 2:Sports has been an integral part of my life. Up to the age of 18, I played multiple sports at a competitive level and then later in my undergrad medical years, I represented my college in badminton, swimming and hockey. I represented my college in badminton, swimming and hockey and then when I took up orthopedics there was absolutely no time, early practice again, very little time to play sports. But in the last 10 years I've started getting back into sports and of course it's all recreational, a little bit of competitive too. But I think sports is integral, it should be integral in everyone's life and certainly has been one of the integral parts of my life and I absolutely enjoy sports.
Speaker 1:How nice. Let's take this a little bit forward. On a more serious note, though, you've been in this field for so many years. You have accomplished so much. I'm sure there have been ups and downs, but if you want to talk about your greatest challenges getting here, could you line them up for me?
Speaker 2:I think the challenges have been primarily because you know you try and manage many different aspects together. Time is a limitation. I think the challenge of doing your best for your patients, which takes a lot of time, and that time takes away from, you know, time that you could spend for your hobbies and your sports. So I think that's the biggest sort of personal challenge that I face. We also face challenges in our profession, you know so. As sports orthopedic doctors we deal with injuries and you know injuries are relatively straightforward. We can manage them. Someone's injured, there's a loss of the anatomy or the way God made that structure, and you can repair it or you can replace it and you can expect a fairly predictable outcome.
Speaker 2:But the challenge that we sometimes face amongst our sportsmen who are slightly older or recreational athletes who are in their mid-years, is basically degeneration of tissues or aging.
Speaker 2:You know aging is something that's a natural process, it's not really a disease, and aging makes it more difficult for us to participate at the same sort of level that we would like. So as our tissues age and our expectations don't, then you come with this conflict where you hope that you can do better but unfortunately you can't and all of medicine is looking towards anti-aging sort of techniques and we try and improve biology, we try and decrease the age of our tissues. But that is a challenge, that is our biggest challenge today how do we make sure that aging tissues don't degenerate as fast as they do, our body, which has ligaments and has structures that are subjected to significant loads, don't land up with wear and tear, and we can be competitive, and we can, you know, be competitive and we can be, uh, you know, doing the sort of mobility exercises and sports that we'd like for a much longer period of time right, I'm talking about the recent olympic stock.
Speaker 1:Um, I the whole country was watching all eyes, you know, on the olympians, but what I noticed specifically this time is that whenever an Olympian wins a medal, they are applauded, and rightly so, but when something goes wrong, the blame is squarely placed on the support team, including the medical experts. Now, you were there as an outsider. To me it seems unfair, but can you tell me a little bit about this experience?
Speaker 2:You're talking about the Vinesh Pogat experience, I'm sure. Yes, yes, this is to be quite honest. This is not an isolated sort of experience. I mean, we see it amongst many sports. We see it in cricket, you know. Sometimes a cricketer gets injured while he's in rehab.
Speaker 2:You know the blame is put on the physios and others, but I think in any sport it's not just the athlete, it's the athlete with his entire support team, and so, of course, every time an athlete does well, the athlete certainly needs to be congratulated and lauded. There's no question about it. He's putting in all that effort, he or she, and similarly, when things don't go as well as you'd like it to be, then of course it's not just the fault of the athlete, it's also a collective responsibility. Everyone that's involved in that decision-taking process and in that preparatory process needs to audit as to what went wrong and what could be done a little better. Now, what's sometimes a little disheartening is that there are many outsiders or people who don't understand the sport who will pass judgment, and I think that becomes a little discouraging for the athlete and everyone concerned. Certain sports have certain nuances about them, and in each sport there's a difference in what those technical aspects are. And if you have a full understanding of that sport and what it involves, then you will understand that this is a part of that sport, that this is a part of that sport. And so when certain decisions are taken for example, if an athlete is forced to participate in a weight category that's not their weight category and is forced to participate in a weight category because of multiple circumstances which is much lower than that, then you know that that's going to be a challenge.
Speaker 2:I think everyone recognizes that that is going to be a challenge and but sometimes you need to take these well-calculated risks. You need to know that. Okay, if I don't participate in this weight category, there's going to be no way that I'm going to be able to win an Olympic medal or even qualify for the Olympics. But I will take this, you know, I will take this chance. I will take this well calculated risk and try and participate in a lower weight category, so they're more effective and, more you know, more chances of me winning something for my country. And then, of course, everyone makes the effort for that to happen, knowing that that's going to be difficult. And if you've had enough time to practice that and simulate that, then great. But if you've not had that much time to practice that situation and simulate that situation where, in competition, you're going to lose a tremendous amount of weight so that your next day's win is appropriate, I mean, that does bring in a lot of challenges, especially when things don't go as well as planned. Does bring in a lot of challenges, especially when things don't go as well as planned.
Speaker 2:Now, you know, vinesh was participating in a category, that's 50 kilograms, which is new to her. In her first round, she was to compete against an athlete who's never lost in her life. You know who has a record, that's. You know she has an unbeatable sort of record in wrestling, and so the challenge would have been that if you do win this and then you do win the next and you win the next, then you're probably not going to have enough time for your weight loss, and so that's going to be a challenge. But if you do, you know, lose the first one, then, yes, you're going to have adequate time, and so sometimes you need to take those risks.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, in sports, I think what happens is you have to take each step at a time, and so when you're participating, you're not really looking at what's going to happen the next day. You're participating, I just need to make sure that I go through my next round. Each bout is important. You know that's the next step, that's the next challenge. We'll do it one step at a time and you know she came really, really close and I think that's what really hurts is that with all those efforts, if we just had a little more time, we would have achieved our goals, but unfortunately time was short and 100 grams was much too much.
Speaker 1:I think there's a whole algorithm that everybody misses. You know what we see is the end result. What we see is that floor, the match, the final match, the whole thing in the background, what is happening for days, weeks, months prior. You know all the risks, all the planning. You know everything. This algorithm is visible only to those who are in it. It's your matrix. So when it glitches, you know why it glitched, but we don't.
Speaker 2:That's so true. That's so true. You know it would be nice to try and always reveal certain aspects that have happened and which will happen in the background, but you know, in sports that's really what strategy is all about. You don't reveal your strategies. You don't reveal you know a lot of your trade secrets. You don't reveal your injuries and you don't want your opponents to know what you're up to. You ultimately want to win. You want to win not just for yourself, but for your country, your team and everyone else concerned.
Speaker 2:And at times you're going to have to make those sacrifices. Sometimes you're going to have to take those well-calculated risks. Some people will call it a gamble, but really it's a well-calculated risk and in many situations these have gone really really well and people have succeeded. And of course, everyone's happy with that. And sometimes they don't, but I can completely understand. You know the sort of emotions that people will come out with. So if you're not aware of what goes on and that hope is there and you've got so much built up and then you suddenly lose, of course there's going to be some sort of someone's going to want to ask as to where does the blame lie and who's responsible and could we have done it better and whatnot? And no one knows that better than the athlete and the support team absolutely.
Speaker 1:Let me take you to the other side now. So between you and me, we've been discussing the possibility of this podcast for a while now. Since then, we've seen the last IPL, the Olympics, the Paralympics take place. Is there a story from any of these where you personally found the mind being mightier than the body and allowing the player to go beyond their physical expectations? We would love to hear a story like this.
Speaker 2:You know, there's so many stories, there's so many really, really, really inspiring stories, whether it's cricket, whether it's any of these Olympic sports. I think the first one that would come to my mind would certainly be rishabh punts is really a very, very, very inspiring sort of uh you know, comeback. Uh, he had, he had an you know a terrible accident. Uh, lucky that he, he, you know managed to survive that accident. He had a very bad knee injury, a knee injury that probably would have caused you know a retirement or you know someone to get out of the sport, but not he. He was determined that he's going to fight it and he's going to get back, despite all of the odds. And, fortunately him, everything went in his favor after what happened. So, surgery went off well, his rehab, the amount of effort that the National Kicker Academy and his physios put into him, I mean it's tremendous, the amount of effort, the time. You know, I think the story that comes out from them and what they've done is also tremendous. And so you know, after all of this, the fact that he could get back to normalcy, get back to training, get back to sports and then get back to elite, competitive cricket, and that too, as a wicketkeeper who needs to squat, have full range, full strength and stability. I mean it's amazing. It's amazing it's been called a miracle and I would say probably it's close to that and very, very inspiring.
Speaker 2:So I think this would be one of the inspiring stories, but there are so many others. If you look at HS Pranoy HS Pranoy doing so well for badminton in India, he was really one of the team members who was responsible for us winning the historic Thomas Cup in badminton. You know, in the last Thomas Cup and for him, unfortunately, he landed up with chikungunya, you know, three weeks prior to the Olympics, and a very severe case of chikungunya which had him hospitalized, and a very severe case of chikungunya which had him hospitalized, and then for him to be able to fight that, recover adequately, push himself, get to the court, get to the gym, do his training and then be there at the Olympics, go through tough qualifying rounds and, you know, win each of them and absolutely, absolutely amazing and so inspiring to see. You know, these athletes, you know, pushing their bodies and doing this just with their tremendous, tremendous willpower.
Speaker 1:This is pure grit, and in its raw form, absolutely so. Tell me, doc, you work so closely with all these renowned sports stars and a lot rides on the outcome of your intervention. Now, does this prove to be a source of inspiration and energy for you, or does it also play heavily on your mind at times?
Speaker 2:um, you know, after a point of time, when you're dealing with elite athletes, you tend to get used to it, you tend to understand what their requirements are, you tend to understand what the demands of the profession and the sport are, and I think you need to get all of that into the equation. So when you're dealing with an elite athlete, you're dealing with just not a normal human being, primarily because of the time constraints, unlike a normal recreational athlete or a normal person who breaks their bones or breaks their ligaments and whom you know you've got the. You know you've got time on your hands and you know you've got the. You know you've got time on your hands and you know that's a luxury. But in sports time is short.
Speaker 2:Many of these athletes, especially if they're wrestlers, they've got a very short career in sports and if six months and nine months and 12 months they're going to be out because of an injury, then they're probably going to lose their rankings. They're probably going to lose their rankings, they're probably going to lose their position in the team. They're probably, you know, not going to get back to where they'd like to be, and so some of these injuries, you know, can be career ending. Now we don't want that to happen, and typically in scenarios where a lot of our athletes have put all their eggs in one basket. So you know, it's just that sport or nothing at all, because many of them haven't really studied, haven't really got other options. Unless they play that sport, unless they prove themselves in that sport, they're probably not going to get some sort of job subsequently, subsequently. So everything relies on you taking care of that injury adequately and in an appropriate amount of optimal time, so that they can get back to sports, fulfill their ambitions, fulfill their dreams and then, you know, live their lives. And if one little thing goes, you know, not as per expectations, you have one little problem there. Things don't go off too well, things don't go off too well or things don't go off as well as you'd like from time and recovery point of view, then everything's lost. So you know there's a big, big sort of, you know, demand on the surgeon and on the team and sometimes dealing with this can be challenging. But I think over a point of time you realize that this is part of it and you certainly want to be as involved as possible, but you don't want to be too emotionally attached with these other aspects that are not within your control. And so the way I look at it is for my mental well-being and for the mental well-being of my athletes is just try and break it down into small steps.
Speaker 2:Trying to look at the big picture and what's going to happen is sometimes difficult. So let's take it as I say, let's take it a step at a time. Let's take it one step at a time. You've got an injury. Let's accept the fact that without doing something for this injury, you're not going to be able to get back to your ultimate goal. So step number one is going to be either rehab or an injection or rest, or sometimes surgery.
Speaker 2:So wait for that healing process to take place, with surgery or without surgery, and then, once that's happened, you restore the anatomy, you restore the structure there.
Speaker 2:Then let's get on to the function so functioning of that structure. So get back the movement, get back the strength, get back the stability, get back the biomechanics, and that requires physiotherapy and rehab. Now this is a slow, sometimes very frustrating sort of process, but it's necessary. You have to do it slowly so that it doesn't come in the way of what's healed, but at the same time you want to do that as optimally so that it's done quickly and you can get back. And then, once that's happened, then look at training, sports performance, agility and other aspects that are so critical for participation in sports. So if you break it up in small steps each one participates proactively in each of these steps then I think you can achieve your ultimate goal. And in the initial phases it'll always look difficult and bleak, but as you start getting closer and closer to that light at the end of the tunnel, you'll find that many of these athletes feel, yeah, we are reaching there, and then they'll really push themselves to the optimum.
Speaker 1:Correct. So it's one of those simple things which we just need to get. So, moving on beyond the athlete's dog, our generation is so focused on movement, both physically and career growth. Everything needs to be fixed instantly. But do you think slowing down and resting is harder nowadays? Do some injuries just need time to heal but are made so much worse by patients trying to do something about it and to heal themselves first?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, the human body is still the human body and healing is a natural process and that really hasn't changed. So over the years, we've advanced tremendously in our understanding of the human body, understanding of the human body. We've advanced tremendously in instrumentation, in robotics, in a lot of the stuff that helps surgeries take place, but what really hasn't changed and what is not going to change, is the natural process of healing. You know, if let me say it this way you know, if a baby is conceived, you're going to have to wait for nine months for that baby to come out, you know that's a natural process. It's going to take nine months and, no matter what you do, you can't say, oh, I'm a working, you know, athlete and I need this baby out in two months so that, you know, I can get back to my sports or I can get back to my office. What's going to take nine months is going to take nine months.
Speaker 2:Similarly, if a wound has to heal or a bone has to heal, it's a natural process. That's going to take its time. Now, of course, we've got some techniques by which we can maybe accelerate it a little bit, but not so much, and we need to recognize that that, ultimately, is the bottom line. Now that applies to whether you're an elite athlete, or whether you're a recreational athlete, or you're a budding athlete or you're just a normal person, and we need to recognize that rest and allowing that time for healing is so critical. Now I think that's something that in our fast-paced world today, we're not willing to accept. You know, everything's done much faster. We have technological means to do things much faster, but unfortunately the human body is still the same human body and it's going to take that time, and we need to recognize that.
Speaker 1:I agree. I also think that social media is bustling with information. It's bustling with more misinformation and people of all ages all around me are trying very random tests of mobility, twisting and turning their joints, because these are challenges given by fitness influencers who have no qualifications. But have you personally seen any grievous injuries related to these?
Speaker 2:Fortunately not grievous ones, but a lot of injuries that have put people down, which have unfortunately resulted in surgeries. So I think, before anyone decides on doing anything as far as fitness is concerned, I think you need to take a step at a time. You need to first understand where are you in this whole spectrum. There'll be some people who are athletes, some people who have been athletes, some people are relatively fit. You need to recognize where are you realistically and then, based on that, where can you be? You can't it's, it's it's.
Speaker 2:You can't suddenly start doing things that a competitive athlete is going to be doing because you saw it on the internet. You saw Neeraj Chopra jump over some hurdles and that looked like a great exercise to do. Let me try that. That would be a big mistake. So I think first you need to recognize where you are, accept that and if you've got some fitness mantras, that's great.
Speaker 2:Anyone can improve on their fitness levels. But it may make sense for you to seek some professional advice. Get to a trainer, get to a physiotherapist, someone who understands movement, who understands biomechanics, someone who understands strength and conditioning, who understands your goals what exactly are your fitness goals and then, based on that, draws out a program that's achievable slow and steady and I think that would be the safest way to do it To get to the internet, see a few exercises or stretches or some yoga poses and think that, oh, I'm going to be able to do this and this is going to make me better. Often, that lands up with more complications than anything else. This is going to make me better. Often that lands up with more complications than anything else, true.
Speaker 1:Well, taking you back to your OT, the role of the mind in post-surgical healing has been of very special interest to me since my early years in practice. Have you noticed this connect with your patients? I mean, do distressed, depressed, anxious patients have a longer post-operative healing period? Do they demand more analgesics also?
Speaker 2:It's surprising that you say that, but this is something that a lot of us doctors have noticed and which we discuss amongst ourselves that someone who comes in with a positive mindset typically always lands up with the best results. And someone who's extremely apprehensive and who's done a lot of research over the net and who's researched all the possible complications that can take place because of that relatively straightforward procedure, unfortunately lands up with those complications. I don't know why it happens, but somehow that seems to be a recurring sort of experience with many surgeons, and so I think there certainly must be something where mind, you know, takes over and the mind helps the body recover. I'm almost certain that people who come in with a positive mindset I'm almost certain that people who come in with a positive mindset, patients who are not too anxious or apprehensive will recover much faster following their procedures. They tend to have much less pain following their procedures and they tend to get back to normalcy also much faster than people expect, right.
Speaker 1:So simply saying mind over matter, and you see it in practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. We don't know the exact mechanisms of how this works, at least I don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that comes into our zone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it certainly does, so that's something that we've certainly certainly noticed.
Speaker 1:Lovely. And if I were to broadly classify your surgical patients, doc, let me do it in two categories the ones who've had an injury that has progressively worsened they've planned a surgical intervention, and the other category of those who've had an acute traumatic injury and need to be operated on immediately Now, post-surgery. Both will need adequate rest, physiotherapy and painkillers. But which of these group of patients deals better emotionally?
Speaker 2:Well, that's interesting because, because you know, the mechanisms here are completely different. So when someone lands up with a traumatic injury, you have to understand that. You know, the day prior to the injury or the minute prior to that injury, he was a perfectly normal person. So take, say, rishabh Pant, for, for instance, right the evening prior to his accident, he was a perfectly normal person, elite athlete, who's at the top of his game, who's the best in the world, you know, for that kind of sport. Now, suddenly, the next day, you land up with a traumatic injury that's severe and you're in a state that's so, so traumatic and difficult on you to accept. And that's because you go from this state of 100% down to 10%, where sometimes you're in bed, you cannot ambulate or go to the washroom, you need the help of others to brush your teeth, and so there's a marked change over a day, and I think that, mentally, is extremely demanding. It's going to take you some time to accept the fact that you've landed up with this. You're going to question why did this happen to me? You're going to start wondering whether you're ever going to be able to get back, and so I think your brain goes through a whole sort of range of negative emotions, and so I think your brain goes through a whole sort of range of negative emotions. And then, once you accept the fact that, look, this has happened and the only path out of this is with a slow, steady sort of positive process, is when you start participating in the treatment process, is when you start really recovering.
Speaker 2:Now, on the other hand, when you land up with these overuse injuries so someone's had a small injury, a minor injury, and then he's managed to play with it, he's taken a few injections to pull him along. One more tour, one more tournament, one more competition that goes well. Okay, I'm going to go a little more, a little more, a little more. You know, you've had a little of time to understand that there is something wrong. There's something wrong with that particular joint or that particular part of the body that's not letting you perform to your optimum. You're managing, but you're not at that 100% and you're not happy.
Speaker 2:Now you need to decide what's the best time to address that and, as an athlete, typically his team's going to decide when's the best time to address that. And, as an athlete, typically his team is going to decide when's the best window of opportunity to address that injury, because every time you do that you're going to lose out on time and you need to know when's the best time, when is it not going to affect your rankings, when is it not going to affect your major competitions or your aspirations of Olympics, nation games, etc. So typically in these scenarios the athlete has already gone through that process of accepting the fact that there's been an injury. It's a slow process. A lot of the athletes will have mental conditioning coaches that will help them understand it too, and so it's much easier on us surgeons to deal with the surgery and everything that comes after it. But the traumatic ones because they've had no experience and they just land up with that it's much, much, much more difficult to deal with the mental aftermath that comes after the injury.
Speaker 1:I'm sure. So I remember asking one of my guides when I was studying we were also studying the difference between major and minor surgery and the mental ramifications and I asked him how would you define a minor surgery? And he said a minor surgery is something which happens to someone else, period. He said everything that happens to you is major. You have a little, you know, a little cut here, a little bruise there. It's all major. So the mind does come into every aspect, whether it's you know, it's an injury, it's trauma, it's sudden, it's a planned elective procedure small, big, there's so much to it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely there are. You know, in sports we say minor and major and whatnot, but really speaking there are no minor injuries. You get a two-take on the evening prior to your competition the next day and that's going to put your entire preparation, you know, completely out of sorts and you know it would be the most major sort of thing that you've ever faced. You could get a small little cut or a boil or you know some sort of sore in your shoe, on your sole, because the shoe was a little tight, and that's going to put all of your preparations to naught. So you know, minor things also can actually have major ramifications in sports. So you know this minor major, I think most of the times in sports, however small it is, it's a major problem.
Speaker 1:Agreed. Doc, tell me something personal now. Is there something you wish somebody had taught you early on in your career? Or if you had to give some advice to 14-year-old self, what would you say?
Speaker 2:earlier on in my career. I think the most challenging aspect sometimes is just dealing with the mental toll of being too emotionally attached to your patients. So everyone wants to do the best for their patients and sometimes if you're too emotionally attached then you may lose your sense of objectivity. So I think maintaining that objectivity at all points of time being a little removed, being a little removed and to be able to see the entire situation in its perspective is always important, and I think that this is something that I've learned over the years, and I think that this is something that I've learned over the years.
Speaker 2:What's also important in our careers is you know to understand that time is the most precious sort of aspect. There's nothing more precious in anyone's lives than time. Time is critical because you need time for your work and your athletes, you need time for your family. You need time for your work and your athletes. You need time for your family. You need time for yourself. You know, I think and when you're 14 years old, you think you know there's an infinite amount of time and there's unlimited time. But you know all of us time is limited. So you know, use your time very, very, very preciously. You know each minute is so critical and you could be doing so much good with you know, each day.
Speaker 2:I love that time being infinite is what we all take for granted.
Speaker 1:So, doc, do you follow any mental health routines, or did you follow any mental health routines when you were younger?
Speaker 2:Not really. You know, I didn't follow any mental health routines. I was just, you know, jumping into everything that I could get an opportunity to be involved in, any sport that I could get my hands on, or anything that I could play. I would just love to do that. Fortunately for me, academics was not too much of a challenge. I managed to do everything that I needed to do academically to get where I needed to be. So I didn't follow any routines as such, but I don't know, it just fell into place and I'm really thankful for that.
Speaker 1:That sounds lovely. Let me ask you a question that I ask all my podcast guests, and it's something which is very personal to me. We all know what's a physical first aid box. You know it better than anybody else. We open it, we use it in case of minor cuts and bruises. But what if you were to have a mental first aid box where you would keep things that would make you instantly happy, something that you would open and just smile? You know, for those days when some little things have gone wrong and you need some TLC, what would you keep in your little box?
Speaker 2:I think all of us have a friend or a partner who we trust, and I think in my first aid box would be number one, a person, and that person would be my wife, and she really is important for my mental well-being. If I was to put a number two, I'd say peace and quiet. If there's ever a difficult moment in my life, if I can just get a little bit of peace and quiet, it helps me to just sort out any sort of complex problem. And if we were looking at a materialistic thing, then it would be dark chocolate. So if I have a little bit of dark chocolate, I think that just makes me extremely happy.
Speaker 1:How lovely is that. It's a physical box, it's a metaphysical box, it's everything. I just love this one. Before we come to our closing remarks, doc, I want to leave the floor open to you. Is there any question that you would like to ask me as a psychologist?
Speaker 2:well, you know, I think the the questions that we always ask uh uh, you know, our mental conditioning coaches who help our athletes is you know what's the what's the best sort of approach for an athlete?
Speaker 2:You know, different human beings have different approaches towards their sport and some come in extremely confident and sometimes overconfident. And then you have other athletes who are not that sure, who are extremely good but who are just not that sure of themselves. And you know what are the sort of approaches that you would use for an athlete who is, say, overconfident, and what are the sort of approaches that you would use for an athlete who needs a little more confidence building? Are there different techniques? Building Are there different techniques? And you know, can this be done with by a normal person or the family members, because a lot of athletes are not too keen to go to mental conditioning coaches or psychologists, sports psychologists Do you think it's feasible for family members and others who are untrained to perform these, or do you think it can only be done by a trained professional sports mental conditioning coach or psychologist?
Speaker 1:Wow. So let me break this down, like you did, into little steps. First answer lies in your question itself. It is not the same for everyone and people come with very different personalities, like you said. So the first step is always to recognize the core personality of the athlete in question.
Speaker 1:If you are aware of MBTI, it's a very beautiful type indicator where we understand a person's personality type in depth. So if a person is an extroverted thinker, he'll be able to process quickly, talk quickly, express quickly, understand what is going wrong, correct it quickly with somebody else present. These are the confident or maybe the overconfident ones. Here you need to understand that the coach also has to match the personality. You cannot put them up with an introverted coach or somebody who is happier thinking quietly and being in his own space. The similar thing happens when somebody is introverted, low on confidence. It could be an upbringing, could be a personality trait. Now we can't go back to their childhood, we don't have that kind of time. So you would have to pair them up with a coach, not just a mental health coach, even their physical coaches. They would have to be made aware of the personality so that they can build on what is already there. Instead of trying to reconstruct with Lego pieces which are not present, they have to build with what they, with whatever core personality strengths that athlete carries.
Speaker 1:Now to the second part of your question can and should family members be involved in this process?
Speaker 1:To a point, yes, a lot of family members do come to psychologists and they seek help in how to deal with a person at home who needs help. So definitely they should go to a mental health coach on their own, but definitely with somebody. Then maybe they can incorporate those changes within their family, within their conversations. Best thing always is to have a trained specialist on board, especially with elite athletes, because they can afford it and because there are few in number. If you ask me this for the general population, I would say we don't have as many psychologists as we want to have, but when it comes to this elite group of people, they should definitely use all the resources that they can have and place equal importance on a mental health coach as a physical health coach. Like they wouldn't say I'm not going to the gym or not getting a personal trainer in my gym, right, because they know it's important, so it's the same thing. This is like a mental gym absolutely necessary.
Speaker 2:Fabulous. Thanks so much, Kinjal.
Speaker 1:That's so helpful, but this has been such an amazing conversation, doc. I've known you for a while now and it has always been interesting talking to you. And, like I always ask you, do you start working at 3am or stop working at 3am? Because I've not found anybody so dedicated and so hardworking. I think you put all of us to shame with the amount of hours you put into your work. I am so honored to have had this conversation and I've realized that our scalpel is only as sharp as a surgeon's brain. And here I see that it's all of it coming together. You're working behind the scenes, on the scenes, in traumatic situations, in planned situations, just so that the country as a whole has a set of athletes who are fitter, finer and more able to bring us all the accolades that we all stand up and clap for. So this is a big thank you from all of us, from all my listeners. Thank you for all the work that you do, thank you for all the efforts that you put in.
Speaker 2:It has been tremendous talking to you. Thank you, kinjal. It's been tremendous talking to you too, and I'm sure we'll do this again someday.
Speaker 1:Thank you, we're looking forward to that.
