Detangle by Kinjal

Detangle with Dr Harish Shetty

• Buzzsprout • Season 5 • Episode 9

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What if the real fix for rising anxiety isn’t more hustle, but more human connection? We sit down with eminent psychiatrist Dr. Harish Shetty to map the sweeping changes in Indian mental health; from moving care back into families to building true multidisciplinary teams, and the stubborn gaps that still block access in elite hospitals and workplaces. The throughline is urgent and hopeful: disconnection is making us sick, and practical reconnection can help us heal.

Across a lively, story-rich episode, we discuss how legal reforms like the Mental Health Act and the decriminalization of suicide reshaped rights, why stigma still persists in places, and how support groups quietly outperform expectations with fewer relapses and stronger daily functioning. Dr. Shetty makes a compelling case for people-first care: psychiatrists, psychologists, physiotherapists, occupational and speech therapists, and social workers working as equals, meeting patients where they live, not just where we bill.

We also explore culture and tech with clear eyes. Films can teach at scale, while social media can either prey on loneliness or act as the science journal of the common person, carrying weekly, stigma-busting posts from all of us. AI chatbots may soothe in the short term but can’t replace intimacy or safety, especially for those in crisis. Instead, Dr. Shetty outlines a layered ecosystem, from befrienders and ambassadors to therapists and psychiatrists-that scales human contact. Along the way, we blend Western therapies with yoga, Vipassana, and local rituals learned in disaster zones, showing how cultural competence builds trust and lasting change.

Stay to the end for a simple 'mental first aid box' you can build today - safe friends, a good book, honest venting, long walks, and elemental rituals that reset the nervous system. If this conversation resonates, share it with someone who needs perspective, subscribe for more people-first mental health, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway so we can keep the dialogue growing.

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SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to Deepangle, where we entangled the complexities of life one conversation at a time. I'm your host, Dr. Kinder Gore, a psychologist and a writer. Today we have with us eminent psychiatrist Dr. Harid Chetty.

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Dr.

SPEAKER_02:

Chetty has spent decades working at the intersection of medicine, mind, and society. From clinical psychiatry to community mental health, disaster response, suicide prevention, and youth well-being. His work has consistently gone beyond the consulting room and way into the public domain. He has been a source of inspiration for me personally for many years. It's a true pleasure to have you on Detangle today, Dr. Chetty. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I'm so glad. I have so many questions for you personally, also as a psychologist. I have so many questions for the time that you have taught me so much about ethics, about research, about mental well-being. I can't wait to get into this conversation with you. Love one. Dr. Chetty, before we get into psychiatry, I really want to start with you personally. What drew you into the human mind and what made you choose psychiatry as your life's work?

SPEAKER_00:

He entered my classroom in the second MVP. And uh he started speaking. He explained to me why each one of us should take up psychiatry. We need to decode the mysteries of the mind, said he. It's a young branch and it's a very important branch because it deals with the brain and the neuro endocrinological systems and the entire body. How the mind is defines how the body can be.

SPEAKER_01:

His name was Dr. Basan.

SPEAKER_00:

And I fell for it. It was mesmerizing, but uh with a lot of substance, a lot of uh science, empirical science, and a nudge which was very strong. Then I met the late Dr. Charles Pinto in a classroom, and I met Dr. Vasan Mundra in the ward, the psychiatric ward. We had just two weeks of psychiatric uh ward where four days were the weekends, and we had only 11 days I attended each one of them. Dr. Charles Spinto said the same thing in a very different way, and my mind was set up to take up psychiatry after my third MED years. I was initially interested in medicine because you have to deduce, and that extended to mental health because here also you have to deduce. I did not like surgery at all, I did not like anatomy, I liked physiology, and I could not put a thread inside a needle, and my love was how to deduce, how to understand, look at the mysteries, and that's why I took up psychiatry. And I'm I'm very thankful to both of these great teachers. And when I am looking at an intern, I asked them, You should take up psychiatry. I still remember this boy. He took up psychiatry. His father came and scolded me. Do you want him to become a doctor of mad men? I kept quiet. But after two years, his father came and thanked me and he said, Well, I'm very happy that my son took up psychiatry. He can really help a lot of people in my family and extend family. And he also added when he goes for a marriage, people surround him. The stigma is less, the shame is less, and people are willing to talk about mental health.

SPEAKER_02:

That is so heartwarming to know. I mean, you've come such a long way. You personally have witnessed psychiatry evolving over so many decades. But when you look back, Doc, I mean, what are the biggest shifts that you've seen in how mental health is understood and treated beyond the stigma?

SPEAKER_00:

I think in the 90s or the late 80s, there was a moment to really take patients from mental hospitals into families across the country. And they wanted to uh see to it that mentally ill live in families and are treated. Dr. Nanaina from Bangalore, Niman's, he was one of the pioneers the same. He would invite patients and the families for lunch and then chat with them and explain to them the need for the patients to be in families, and that was a very big shift. And my petition on the same in the Bombay High Court addressed the same issue where the mental hospital at Tane could send a lot of patients back to the families thanks to the Bombay High Court and thanks to all the others who worked with me in the petition. That was one. The second most important thing is that departments of psychiatry opened up in many mental hospitals, in many medical institutes. I remember when I started psychiatry, we had four psychiatrists only in multi-provision. Now there are so many. So that shift uh was also very important. The third important shift was uh doctors and psychologists started working together. Well, it is not only the medicines which can change the brain, but non-pharmacological approaches like psychological interventions, like uh a lot of social interventions could and could bring about uh some harmony inside the brain and help patients to recover, help patients to reintegrate in the society. Third was the Mental Health Act 87. I think it was a revolutionary act, which was so important. And that act also looked at the financial rights of the patient, which has been ignored by the Mental Health Care Act 2017. Along with that, suicide has been decriminalized by the Mental Health Care Act 17. That was a very big, big uh shift in in mental health. Learning disability has been accepted as as one of the disabilities which has to be addressed. And many Supreme Court petitions and petitions across the country looked at the rights of the mental healing. That was very, very important. This mental health care act needs revision, and uh maybe time uh will uh this will evolve across time and things will change. Certain aspects of that have to be revised.

SPEAKER_02:

Lovely, these are all the beautiful changes that have come about and are helping people and society at large. But what do you still think remains deeply misunderstood? What two, three aspects of psychiatry and psychology are you still fighting to resolve?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. I mean, uh number one, in five-star hospitals in my city of Mumbai, they don't admit mentally ill patients. And and those hospitals which are admitting have stopped. They are not aware of the Mental Health Care Act, they are not aware of the human rights of the mental ill. They are not aware that one out of seven Indians are mentally ill. And if you if you operate an appendix of Tommy or you admit one member of the family into an ICU, there could be somebody who's mentally ill in the family would need hospitalization. And and and this stigma, which is extremely strong among the light, is one of the most important obstacles for mental health intervention. That is one. Number two, mental health policy in corporates and organizations are missing. A lot of people who go and tell the CEO or the head of the institution that I have panic attack, I have depression, I had an episode of psychosis, are excluded, are removed from the from the institutes or from the corporates. And so there's no mental health policy. There's a mental health policy in the center, but not applied across the states. There's a suicide prevention policy in the center, but not applied across states. We are in the midst of a mental health epidemic. We are in the midst of a suicide epidemic, but we are only interested in looking at is India the richest country in the world, is the economic growth? But we can't have a rich country with bad mental health. So this also has to go hand in hand, and that is so important. Stigma and the pathways of care are issues. Well, I still remember 20 years back when I addressed a bunch of teachers across the city at a school in Sign. I asked, How many of you have attempted suicide? And many hands went up. That's the time I realized people are willing to disclose, and we are not asking the right questions. There's a lot of helplessness in the country. And all psychiatrists need to go to the municipal hospitals very close by. All psychologists should adopt a municipal hospital or a municipal school and help kids who are marginalized in these populations. And at least three months of MD training in psychiatry and three months in the training of masters in psychology should be in the community.

SPEAKER_02:

Lovely. Doc, I've personally experienced your lectures. I have uh attended some of them myself, and I see that you use a lot of personal narratives and storytelling and public conversations to reduce stigma. But sometimes I feel like mainstream movies, TV, social media can work both ways. There are some movies which can really highlight mental ailments and bring awareness, but there is still so much going on that is bringing people down, that is increasing the stigma. What's your take on this?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely, in the sense that uh Tara Zamiper is equal to a million workshops on learning issues. The next film on Down syndrome also is equal to a million workshops. So there are a lot of films now which address mental health rationally and systematically, and that's a big thing. Social media is very important in the sense though we are in the middle of a gadget epidemic, and we need a movement against them because it has been proved that uh uh uh uh uh addiction to gadgets can cause depression, anxiety, and suicide. Vivek Murti wrote a wonderful piece, Social Media and Youth. UNESCO also has said uh something about addiction and technology, and they have said one out of three countries are trying to control. You see what Australia did. Uh France was also on the way. But the issue is very different, and and I would say Meta has been has been uh on the backseat because many states in America have filed federal court cases against them. Now, having said this, I would ask all people who are listening to this podcast scientists, people of science, authors, uh, journalists, and layman, social media is a journal of science for the common man. Social media can bring down governments, but social media can also improve awareness on mental health. Please post one positive story or one in piece of information on mental health on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. And that will go a long way in breaking the stigma and helping people access help. The pathways of care will be shortened and help-seeking behavior will improve. So, again, I re-emphasize social media is the science journal for the common man. They don't read uh journal articles which experts have written. And this is something which we need to exploit. And we need to understand that people are on the media and we need to plug that space and not allow quacks to operate.

SPEAKER_02:

I think there was something in the uh in the news recently that I had read a lot of social media platforms had come up with an idea that anybody talking about mental health should be asked to upload a certificate proving that they can actually talk about mental health publicly. I don't think that ever went to the end.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't think I don't like that attitude. Uh remember one thing. Matthew was asked once, the co-founder of Netflix, whom are you confident with? And he said, sleep. Social media is predatory, social media is addictive. The withdrawal symptoms can be so bad. And you know what happened in a district in UP very recently. Regulations don't work. Regulations don't work. So uh you can't provide uh addictive social media, it's like cocaine, it can cause depression, anxiety, and uh and and and suicide. So governments should regulate it. I would say in India you need to ban Instagram and various platforms for kids under the age of 18. But at the same time, all adults who are listening to this podcast, don't bother who you are, but write a positive message or information which is rational about mental health once a week on Instagram and and Facebook. That will be a great contribution because again I say that social media is also a journal of science for the common man.

SPEAKER_02:

Very well said. Doc, as a psychiatrist working closely with psychologists all the time, I want to understand how you see the relationship between the two disciplines evolving today.

SPEAKER_00:

It has to be equal. Not only psychologists, but physiotherapists, occupational therapist, speech, speech therapist, and social worker. It has to be equal. I have been working with psychologists for day one. I still have at least eight to ten psychologists whom I refer and we work together. And sometimes psychologists do the maximum work we do, a little work when it is uh issue is very very deeply uh embedded in therapy, which can help them. And sometimes we do a little more and psychologists do a little less for certain cases. But on the whole, what is very important, the team is much better than an individual. A patient suffering from major mental illness needs her psychologist to maintain his or her treatment and improvement. A patient suffering from trauma, from death, from grief, extended grief, or or PTSD or many other illnesses, they need a psychologist much more than a psychiatrist. So we need to work as a team across all disciplines. And what is very important for all psychologists and psychiatrists and others, now is the time that we look east. You know what we don't only rely on the West. Yes, C T is good, Arib B is good, but but Swami Ramdha says dasbada is lots of good. Yoga and Vipassana are the biggest contributions of India to the world. Well, yoga is practiced more in in New York and in and in the USA than in India, in schools. And Vipassana has been converted into mindfulness across the world, and they've changed the name, but they use the same technique. So Gautam Buddha and Maharishi Patanjali are the greatest mental health professionals of all time. So as much as we look towards the West, we need to look at the East. I have done courses on REPT, CBT, EFTR, NLP, just start, but at the same time, I use a yoga, vipassna, stories from Indian mythology, and the Gita in my mental health field. And my colleagues also do the same. It's high time that we look at indigenous sciences, indigenous knowledge. The colonial impact on India has been so huge that we always look at the West. Let's start looking at the East also.

SPEAKER_02:

True. So, Doc, over the last few years, let's say over a decade or two, have you noticed a shift in what people are coming to you for? I mean, are today's struggles different in nature and how?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely, in the sense I would say that uh normal life has been completely disrupted with the pace of globalization. What happens when you start running faster? You get disconnected. Your entire body is an orchestra which gets completely disturbed. You are sleep deprived, you work long hours, you travel long hours, your families have become smaller, your emotional contact time has gone down, your family contact time has gone down, your community contact time has gone down. The biggest illness on this earth as of now, especially in my country, which is which is socioeconomic upheaval. So disconnection is the biggest illness, and which means it causes a lot of anxiety, a lot of panic, wanting to die. When I was in school and college, uh the word sue would not be suicide. Stress would not mean that you need to enter life. Stress means you need to cope, you need to get close to your family and get going. And what is so important is coping skills are poor, available social support is yesterday. Across all groups, it was a very serious PhD. Across all groups, what she said was social support has gone down. So in the last 10 years, I see a lot of people in panic. I see a lot of people anxious, at least see a lot of people depressed. Every day in my practice, three to five people say that they want to end their lives, and stress between the space between stress and suicide has shrunk. And that I think is extremely important for us to understand. We need to look at very seriously, and we need to look at uh new answers to new problems. Every era has its problems, and we need to find answers which are specific to that era. We can't say during our time things were better, things will always change, and we need to be smart enough, we need to listen to people, we need to also understand that every person who comes for help has wisdom, which we need to tap, and and we need to collectively work in groups. In India, we have to work with numbers, we need to work with groups. We can't work with individuals all the time because the number of psychiatrists and psychologists are less, and group work will be a very big impetus to uh to really help and assist mental issues which are prevalent now and today.

SPEAKER_02:

True. I think group therapy is beautiful. It is underrated, it is undertapped, but it works so well.

SPEAKER_00:

I would say not group therapies. Let's not give it a structure of therapy. Even support group meetings are very useful. I still remember when I started my three, which unfortunately closed at the time of COVID. People would come and speak to me about symptoms in in my clinic, but uh in the meeting, they would talk about life. This was a support group, free support group for patients who are suffering from major mental illness. And we found five things we changed. Number one, there was zero suicides among all those who came to the support groups. Number two, they had minimal relapses, and if they had a relapse, the members of the support group would rush and see to it that they're controlled. They would access help at that time. Number three, the family functioning improved. Number four, occupational functioning improved. Number five, the quality of life also improved. But there are adverse effects of support groups also. People who have been in support groups for a long time are sometimes insensitive with people who are new, who might say, What is schizophrenia? And they might be really indifferent or stand to the new members of the group. So we need to work around that. Support groups are an answer in India for all patients suffering from uh different forms of stress, distress, and and disorder or disease. And now it's difficult to have support groups where they can access uh uh live. I think it should be it should be online. And a lot of psychiatric and psychologists should start support groups very consistently for different issues and different illness. Trauma, violence has also increased to a very great extent. Irritability is a is a symptom across the country. You beat up people on the roads, you beat up people in their families, you kill people, you lynch people, and that is something which is happening because because our brains are stressed, support systems are less, and the pace of life is huge, reconnection is an answer to disconnection. I tell all people if staying in in moala, slums, buildings, and towers that use festivals as a point of reconnection where health can improve and people will see social support and they will seek support. So even in WhatsApp groups, don't only wish people on anniversaries and birthdays. If you failed in the exam, if you have if you have if you have lost a job, start sharing, and that is very important. All organizations should have a mental health policy which is inclusive.

SPEAKER_02:

Fabulous. Doc, let me now bring you to something that has intrigued me and uh still intrigues me because there are no clear answers yet. Chat GPT has publicly acknowledged that a very large number of people are putting in questions to the bot about mental health. ChatGPT has clearly stated that they are not mental health platforms and that even the data that they are collecting may not be confidential. But despite that, people are talking to the bot, they are seeking the validation which comes easily. Now, this is not even a trained psychotherapy session, but it is on the rise. What is your take on it and which direction do you think we are going in?

SPEAKER_00:

I think uh we cannot avoid chat GPT and AI, and I feel I feel see a lot of young people uh accessing chat GPT and uh and and finding answers. And as long as it's not humble, it's okay. You are no you are no Harari, the famous author who wrote the book Homo three more books. Oh, yes. He said Chat GPT has no emotion, there is no intimacy, and that cannot help in the long run, but it can help some people uh in the short run. I would like to give an example. Chat GPT the other day also said, also gave answers of how to end their life. And and and and India Mart, uh you you have those things available. Somebody came to me and with a with a small vial of hemlock. Hemlock is a poison which the Greeks use to kill thinkers, and he accessed it through Amazon. So the point is let us understand that Amazon, if you if you write, if you type uh the substance which can which will help you to end your life. They give you the list. So chat GPT, Amazon, AI, and other other platforms are not completely safe. You know the case of uh the young man in America who committed suicide after he was on chat GPT. So I would say human contact is important. For that, we need to make uh uh a range of professionals available. Like in in medicine, you have a nurse, you have a ward boy, you have a resident doctor, you have an assistant professor, you have a consultant, you have the HOD. Similarly, in mental health, you need psychiatrists, psychologists, befrienders, uh, mental health ambassadors, mental health support group members, and facilitators. Mental health is too important to be left alone to uh mental health health professions alone. You can't have PhD, you can't have the have the Western model of PhDs and MA and MD only to treat psychiatry or MDBS. I would say that we need to train people across all borders, across all hierarchies. Some will do little work of listening and and allowing people to ventilate, some would uh provide simple tools uh for for them to really face in the life. Some would some would provide structured psychotherapy, some would provide social support, and some would provide probably medicines, which are equally required. So we need to have a range, you need to have the model which Iran practiced for a long time, and it was very successful.

SPEAKER_02:

Doc, tell me on a personal note, is there something that you wish somebody had taught you early on, which you did learn eventually, but you hope that somebody had taught you? And that's the advice you would give younger people now entering the mental health zone.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. In fact, uh when I finished my psychiatry, I wanted to quit psychiatry. Uh well, when I was young, I met good teachers, Dr. N. S. Waya, who brought yoga into India. He was the first researcher in yoga and mental health. Dr. Diab Gaji, Dr. Dinsha Dungaj at KM, who made psychiatry and mental health mathematics, and he had the art and the science of psychiatry. I was impressed. But after I finished my MD, I was bored because I was not there really to actually uh give medicines and uh and and provide symptomatic relief. I wanted to go beyond symptoms. So in 1992-93, there was an earthquake at Klatur, and I packed my bags and went there. I I worked there for almost one year, and I learned a lot from the people. And I I went to T I went to cure PTSD, but I learned exactly what happens after trauma. And I learned that that stories from the community, cultural uh mechanisms from the community, the cultural intelligence was as important as my Western science. I still remember a village where a lot of women would not come out of the house. And and and my techniques or techniques by psychiatrists did not work. One lady said, let's do Haldikum Kum, and they all came out and they started grieving. In fact, one one one workshop which I conducted with Umakandra, our teacher in in Latour, with whom I worked, and he has been kind enough to help me to work across time. I lived in his house. We kept a manaswasta Shibir at Killari. Nobody came because uh Murari Bapu was taking a session on Raman, and there were hundreds and thousands. So that's the time I learned that cultural competence for a psychiatrist is very important, and blending cultural stories into modern mental science is a must. That happened in uh in Kandla, where I went and worked for a year uh with the victims of the of uh who are saltpan workers, were so many of them, more than 3,000 were killed in the floods. And there, when I went and said, let's form a uh Manaswastya club, they said uh we are not mad, we are not interested. And then they said they already have a group which meets for many reasons. And uh and and and and and we we penetrated the group. So penetrating existing systems where people meet in small numbers or large numbers, and locating mental health is the skill, should be the skill of a psychiatrist or a psychologist or any any mental health profession. I still remember the story. A family complained because they said Dr. Harishet is making me cry because of the loss of uh my family member. I had kept the photo of my lost family member inside a bag. I did not want to look at it. It was avoidance in my science. And uh and he made me cry. I thought it was a compliment, and then I saw that they had put all the pictures above the picture of gods and they defied those people who have hoped they have lost. Understanding the grieving process of different communities is very important. And and and they also said that they would want to uh uh uh build uh small, small, small monuments, and we found that with the group where there was intervention, they used the compensation money for their lives. But in a in a in a in the group where intervention was not there, or we could not really reach out, we found that the compensation money was was used to uh to validate rumors, uh, to look at look at the survivors if they're alive in Karachi, because Kach and Karachi are very close by. And uh they they did all sorts of uh of the of religious rituals which were useless. So intervention, cultural and modern science, when it's married, it helps people in disaster. So I learned that that listening to people and and and understanding the wisdom of the people, in spite of the fact that if they're ill, they're sick, or they're bad, is extremely important. Cultural competence is very important for all mental health professionals. You have to be, you have to be like Patch Adams, but you need to know the gods of different different communities, the slogans of different communities, Jai Jinendra, Jai Sri Krishna Jai Sri Krishna, Allah of his and and and all the things. And and and the gods of the coalis who really fetch us fish from the sea. And they pray to uh Gora, Kumbar, and Kandoba. So cultural competence is the key for every professional uh who is helping groups or who are helping individuals.

SPEAKER_01:

Rapo is built when you are culturally competent.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow, that actually feels like I just got a masterclass in disaster management and learning what we can do to help the world. But let me take you into a more personal zone now, Doc. Let me ask you a few rapid-fire questions. No second thoughts answer real quick. What's your favorite book?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh Jonathan Livingston the Seagull. Your favorite movie character. Uh Amir Khan.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. Your biggest pet peeves, something that always irritates you.

SPEAKER_00:

Obsessive people, people who have OCPD.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. All right. The one thing that you believed in but no longer do.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh well, I felt that uh every human being is fantastic, but then I realized that people come in different shades and colours, and these shades and colors change. So we need to accept people as they are and learn from each one of them.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. Your most prized possession.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh my books.

SPEAKER_02:

Lovely. Doc, let me now ask you the question that I love the most on my show. Over all these five seasons, I have asked this question to every guest, and I love collecting the answers. We're all aware of a physical first aid box, right? Where we keep our band-aids, painkillers, antiseptic, etc. But what if you personally were to create a mental first aid box? You know, for those days when you're feeling emotionally run down.

SPEAKER_00:

My safe space, my my school friends and my family. Number two, just picking up a book. Number three, using a lot of expletives and sharing from the bottom of my heart to be with people whom I love. And number five, going for a long walk and looking at the sky. The five elements which is prescribed by our our history water, fire, sky, mati, that is the earth, and and the air is something which is a long bath, shower bath under your head eases me to a great extent.

SPEAKER_02:

Super, that's a fantastic mental first aid box. And before we come to a close and have our closing remarks, Doc, is there a question that you have for me as a psychologist or as a podcast host?

SPEAKER_00:

So, what did you learn from all the podcasts? Three lines.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow, I've learned a lot actually. I've learned that uh there is nothing called passion which is served to you on a platter. I have been able to speak to people who have been successful in very different fields of work and define success in very different ways. But nobody woke up one day with a Eureka moment saying, Oh, this is my calling. No, people started working hard and then they started getting better at what they do. So hard work always trumps talent, is the one thing that I've learned through the podcast.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. And uh and that's so apt uh for all of us. We evolve and like what Virat said with Virat Kohli, who's also one of my favorite sportsmen. Yeah, and that's the best message which I've heard from somebody who practiced it across his life.

SPEAKER_02:

True, and actually, there are so many people, Doc, who define success in very, very different ways. We have a very small definition of success as we are growing up, but then you realize, for example, in the same season, I have somebody who works with elephants and has created an AI to help those elephants move away from establishments where humans are living. They are trying to mitigate the human-animal conflict in a very practical, intelligent way. And I think this is so different, you know, and this is not something she one day woke up and realized she wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00:

For me, success is peace. And just do your best, as Bhagavad Gita says, what happens, happens. And I may not be always right, I may not be doing everything correct. I might make mistakes which I should not repeat later.

SPEAKER_02:

True. Actually, when we started this conversation, Doc, I was asking myself which angle this is going to take. Will this be for mental health professionals or will this be for lay people? But as we've come towards the end of the conversation, I realized that this is for everyone. If a psychologist or psychiatrist or even an aspiring psychologist or psychiatrist is listening to it, they know which directions they can take. They know which way they need to go. And if if lay people are listening to this, they know that mental health is not just behind the desk. Mental health is everywhere. Everybody can take part in it, everybody can add to it, everybody should add to it. So this has been interesting in many more ways than we expected. But it's been amazing.

SPEAKER_00:

I would like to say something here. We need to be people-based mental health professionals and not patient-based mental health professionals. People come first, patients come next.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. I mean, it's been tremendous listening to you. I think uh a lot of people are going to take a lot of things back from this. I'm sure a lot of people will get inspired to do something in the mental health space thanks to the little tips that you've given us today. I'm so grateful, Doc, for your time. I know it's been hard for you, but thank you so much, and I really hope that this features are really, really vast audio.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you.

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