Gen Z's View Point - Katie Hershberger's Take On The World Today

Can we reshape our world by adopting the innovation and sustainability practices of younger generations? We promise you'll gain fresh perspectives and actionable insights as we sit down with Katie Hershberger, who recently graduated from high school and is off to Colby College. Katie brings a spirited and insightful look into how her generation is tackling the big issues of our time, from climate change and misinformation to advocating for better public transportation. She also shares how her activism extends beyond her career ambitions and is deeply rooted in her everyday life.

Imagine a society where public transportation is robust and efficient like in Europe and Asia, where communities are designed to be walkable and bike-friendly. This episode explores these possibilities and more, emphasizing the role of communication skills in advocating for urban transformations. We delve into the importance of modern workplace environments that foster collaboration, sparking innovation, and how social media can serve as a powerful tool for mobilizing support for sustainable initiatives. Katie's reflections on education add another layer, suggesting reforms that personalize learning and better support students' mental health.

We also tackle the critical issue of mental health, both within educational settings and the workplace. Katie and I share personal stories about overcoming anxiety and the stigma surrounding mental health issues. From the impact of social isolation to the importance of parental involvement, we uncover strategies for fostering emotional well-being. Additionally, we explore the ethical implications of AI, the role of technology in human connections, and advocate for a balanced approach to work-life integration. Join us for a thought-provoking conversation that shines a light on the aspirations and challenges of the younger generation striving to make a difference.

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Transcript

Generational Perspectives on Small Business

Tammy Hershberger 0:01

Welcome to the Light Up your Business podcast , the show where we dive deep into the world of small businesses . I'm your host , tammy Hershberger , and each episode will bring you inspiring stories , expert insights and practical tips to help your small business thrive . Whether you're an entrepreneur just starting out or a seasoned business owner , this podcast is your go-to source for success in the small business world . Let's get started to source for success in the small business world . Let's get started . Hi everyone , I want to welcome you back to another episode of Light Up your Business podcast . Today I have a very special guest . It would be our niece , katie Hershberger . How are you doing , katie ? Good , she is 18 years old . She just graduated high school . She is going to college here in just a few days . Do you want to tell us where you're going ? I'm going to Colby College . Where is that at ?

Katie Hershberger 0:51

Maine .

Tammy Hershberger 0:52

And what are you going to study there ?

Katie Hershberger 0:54

I would like to study math and government Is your mom good at math .

Tammy Hershberger 1:00

No , because I'm not really good at math . I can do basic math . It's interesting where that gene came from , because I don't know John's pretty good at math . Oh , I also have my husband here . I almost forgot John . I have to introduce you , john Hershberger . Yay , john .

John Hershberger 1:13

Hello .

Tammy Hershberger 1:15

So he's going to join in the conversation . It's important to remember that my husband likes to have fun .

Tammy Hershberger 1:25

So let's have some fun here , right ? It'd be better if you kept that try there , so you don't take forever to answer . That'd be great , okay . So , katie , first question , right off the gate , is how do you see your role evolving in society as you grow older ? I'm not sure . I mean , what do you see as like your perspective now at your age ? As far as where you fit in ? I mean , there's people like john and I who are pretty conservative . Then you have you and your generation . Yeah , do you feel like your generation is you know how , like in the hippie days , like those were like the , the dope smokers that wanted to change the world and love everything . And then I feel like , I don't know , you're not a millennial , right , you're , or not a millennial ? What's your gen z ? What's gen stand for ?

Katie Hershberger 2:04

It's really divisive , especially as the world continues to go and the atmosphere continues to change . I feel , as the younger generations continue , it'll just continue to get more divisive in their thoughts and views .

Tammy Hershberger 2:18

Do you think that'll continue for quite a while before the next generation comes in and does whatever they do Definitely ? What do you think your generation is so divisive about ? Why ? What created that , do you think ? Um , I mean it's probably the parents uh-huh , you think the parents did it well , which would be us , basically our generation yeah , a lot of the time , and also with the internet .

Katie Hershberger 2:39

Uh , information became so accessible , but it also became a lot easier to lie or spread information , misinformation . So once and with algorithms , you get provided content that you interact with . So if a child's on the internet and they see one video that's like that or something , they'll get let down a rabbit hole and it leads to radicalization yeah , and that's part of why I want you on here .

Tammy Hershberger 3:04

You know I'm a small business podcast , but we are about life and family and I think it's just interesting to learn from people in different generations and how we all see things differently and and that even when I talk to business owners , they are all different , they see things different , they have different experiences , and so you are our future . You are generations of workers that are coming for my businesses , for the businesses you know that are going to start up soon . For you guys , do you feel like your generation has ? I don't know . I felt like for a while , some of our generation was like save the world , I'm going to do something great and save the planet , like , is there anything in your generation that's that way ? Or Definitely ?

Katie Hershberger 3:38

There's a lot more pushes to fight back against climate change and other non-renewable sources of energy that the United States uses .

Tammy Hershberger 3:48

And what is your generation ? And I know I'm generalizing that and this is just your opinion and that's okay , but what do you see as a solution for all this stuff ?

Katie Hershberger 3:56

There is no one concrete solution because people are very nuanced and because of that every solution is going to have a lot of nuance behind it . There isn't one way that we can fix the world or change everything .

Tammy Hershberger 4:10

Yeah , what makes your drive so strong to try to do that ?

Katie Hershberger 4:16

Well , I would like to live in a world where I have clean air to breathe . So that would be nice . Okay , I still have quite a few years of my life and I want the earth to be good for that yeah , do you .

Tammy Hershberger 4:29

I know you specifically are kind of like me . I never really had a major desire for kids . But like , do you think about future generations or is it more just like what you have to live in today , or for the future , for ?

Katie Hershberger 4:39

you well . I care about the future generations as well . I believe everybody deserves a world where they can live healthily .

Tammy Hershberger 4:45

Sure , yeah . So can I ask , with the math version , is there anything ? Or how do you see it from your perspective of you're going to school for math ? I don't know if that's exactly the way to say that , but anyway , what are you going to try to use your career , your future for ? To make a change ? Do you have any thoughts on that ?

Katie Hershberger 5:04

I don't think my career necessarily is going to be the part of my life that makes a change . Rather , it's going to be activism or things I do outside of my career . Okay .

Tammy Hershberger 5:12

Are you a big activist now ?

Katie Hershberger 5:16

I hold a lot of opinions that would be considered activist opinions , but I haven't really ever gotten a chance to go out and do work like that because I live in a small town .

Tammy Hershberger 5:27

That is kind of against activism yeah , so is your goal eventually , because you're going to a school in a small town , do you ? I know we've talked a little bit personally but and I understand , you're young , you have a lot of life to live . You probably don't have a lot of envision of where you're going yet , but , like , do you want to someday live in a bigger city ? I know we've talked about living overseas , even maybe .

Katie Hershberger 5:48

Well , I enjoyed living in Rochester when I lived there . I don't think I'd ever want to live in a large , large city like Minneapolis or New York city , but I've also considered living abroad .

Tammy Hershberger 5:59

I think that would be a good experience , even if it's not a permanent arrangement and what about the I guess you would call rochester medium size , do you think , john ? Yeah yeah , what do you think ? So can you explain to me just your preference ? Do you from big city like minneapolis or denver or wherever you are to like rochester ? What's the difference to you ? Well , the big cities are larger so is it just the more people , the population you don't like ?

Katie Hershberger 6:23

Yeah , it's a lot busier , it's harder to get around and usually I find that the largest cities tend to be the least walkable . They don't have a lot of people-friendly infrastructure . They're more focused on roads and car travel rather than public transportation .

Tammy Hershberger 6:40

Because I do find a lot of kids your age they talk about that . They want really walkable Hell . I know find a lot of kids your age they talk about that . They want really walkable Hell . I know a lot of people that your age don't even have cars . They don't want them , they're happy to Uber and take the bus .

Katie Hershberger 6:50

Well , I'm not happy to Uber because it's not economical , but I do wish that there would be more investment in public infrastructure like public transportation buses , subways .

Navigating Future Challenges and Communication

Katie Hershberger 7:02

You can take a look at other countries , maybe not Germany , but buses , subways , um , you can take a look at other countries , maybe not germany , but other european countries or a lot of countries in asia . They tend to have really robust public transportation systems and I feel like that would do some uh , something very good for the united states , especially with how large the country is , because in europe they have this agreement where I don't remember what the three countries are but there's free public transportation Not free you have to pay to get onto the bus , but you can travel between the countries without having to worry about passports or anything like that through the public transportation system .

Tammy Hershberger 7:39

And do they use high-speed rail or what is it ?

Katie Hershberger 7:41

There are high-speed rails , but there's also a lot of local rails that are much slower but also much cheaper . Um , high-speed rails at least in my experience or what I've seen are far more common in places like japan or china . They have bullet trains , but they also still have local rails that people are able to take . Those typically go to the smaller cities electric trains or does anyone know ? Sometimes yeah okay .

Tammy Hershberger 8:10

So as far as that goes , um , I'm curious for your generation again , and I understand you're not the representation of your generation , but you are one of the people . Um , what is it about the desire for that ? Is it ? Is it really just the the environment ? Is it financial ? It's super that . Is it really just the environment ? Is it financial ? It's super expensive to own a car and pay insurance and all that , or what is it ?

Katie Hershberger 8:28

I think it's a mixture of everything . Considering the climate aspect of it , it is a lot nicer on the environment to have one train that transports a lot of people than to have 20 cars all transporting a couple people . And also , well , public transportation tends to be far more affordable than a car because , um , both options have like a reoccurring payment . Just I'd find it cheaper to buy a bus pass than it would be to pay for gas every other week yeah , um , and I do think the cost of vehicles are insane these days .

Tammy Hershberger 9:07

I mean , I know you can still buy older stuff , but like new cars , I mean you're looking what ? $40,000 , john for a cheaper one . Sure , I'm not talking used , I'm talking new . Sure . And then they go all the way up to your pickups are $100,000 , $120,000, .

John Hershberger 9:25

Right way up to your pickups are 100 , 120 , right ? Uh , I'd say I average . Uh , I would average it out at about 60 to 100 , depending on what , how fancy of a truck you want . Um yeah , you can get over a hundred thousand yeah , and then insurance is certainly not cheap .

Tammy Hershberger 9:49

So then in that case , if you're doing the more infrastructure of that , are you living closer to town than probably less rural ?

Katie Hershberger 9:53

Oh , I've never wanted to live in a rural area . I'm okay with living in suburbs , but I've never had the desire to live out in the middle of nowhere , okay , and so I'm curious , then , bringing that into a jobs perspective .

Tammy Hershberger 10:06

So future , future , right , as you're growing older , you're gonna have to commute that way , which probably does keep you healthier because you're walking a lot more biking , whatever , right . Are you a biker , do you ?

Katie Hershberger 10:14

like to bike .

Tammy Hershberger 10:15

Yeah , so on your , can we talk really quick about your college ? You said it's small so you'll probably just walk most everywhere there . Yeah , yeah , okay . And then , as far as thinking about like , okay , so future , we're going to need to live closer to town if we're going to try to commute as much as we are , and then if you look at the perspective of , you know , division and divisiveness , and then you're trying to like , make changes and make the world a better place , what does that mean for future ? What kind of skills , what kind of knowledge are you going to have to have to make you successful ?

Katie Hershberger 10:44

and whether it's your personal activism or your fun , you know you're , you go into business to change the environment or you know I think that communication is going to be one of the most valuable things being able to get ideas across without making people angry or being reactionary and how do you think we do that ? It . It's difficult to say Everybody's different . It just depends on who you're interacting with .

Tammy Hershberger 11:07

In schools today . How do they teach ? I don't even know what the word is for that , Like getting people together in groups , Because I know it's like for a lot of years . I've watched Google and Apple In their businesses . They have like big rooms and instead of individual offices they're having big workspaces , that you kind of communal workspaces , basically to try to bring people together , bring ideas together . Do you think that makes a difference ?

Katie Hershberger 11:27

I don't think it makes a difference in regard , like it makes a difference in the companies , and it does breed more innovation because you have people to bounce your ideas off of .

Tammy Hershberger 11:37

Yeah , and so I guess that's what I'm saying is like do you think that kind of atmosphere for what you were just talking about is communication to fix all this stuff or to work towards getting your goal , or whatever do you feel like that kind of environment is going to help bring the communication ?

Katie Hershberger 11:50

I think it could . I personally more prefer one-on-one or small groups for stuff like that , just because I feel like it's easier to connect that way .

Tammy Hershberger 11:58

So you think starting smaller groups , and then how do you get that vision out to the bigger masses , which is what moves people usually ?

Katie Hershberger 12:05

word of mouth , just general communication . You know , eventually people are going to hear things .

Tammy Hershberger 12:10

Yeah and I think , do you think social media and facebook and tiktok or I don't even know what they all are do you think those are going to make a huge play to help get the words out these days , versus when me and john were kids , we didn't have any of that stuff .

Katie Hershberger 12:22

They definitely already have Information spreads 10 times faster than it used to in history , and you can get things from a variety of sources now that allow you to cross-reference and form your own opinions , and I think that's extremely helpful .

Tammy Hershberger 12:37

Yeah . Do you think the social media is going to change a lot in the next 10 , 20 years from what it is today ?

Katie Hershberger 12:43

I'm sure it will , but I can't necessarily predict how do ?

Tammy Hershberger 12:47

you have any thoughts on it at all ? Not necessarily because I'm watching , as my generation was Facebook and I'm literally talking to young people and they're like it's not Facebook , that's for old people . Now , like that's where , like I had an 18 year old guy who owns his own business and he was saying that's where grandma wishes me happy birthday . Now , like they , they do TikTok , they do Instagram , which I'm shocked , instagram's coming into a thing . I mean , it's always been there , but I thought it was just for pictures . But do you have any thoughts on any of that ? I don't really use social media , yeah , so you're not more Okay , gotcha . As far as going forward in the future , what do you think is going to be the biggest challenge for your generation ? Finding common ground , and that is that with other generations , or just your , your own generation , even just with them . How do you think you find make that happen , or what's your thoughts on that ? I don't know . Do they teach any of the stuff in schools ?

John Hershberger 13:37

quit being so stubborn .

Tammy Hershberger 13:39

That's how you find common ground okay I don't mean you in general , I'm just saying I think you definitely have to be willing to see everybody's perspective .

Katie Hershberger 13:49

You have to be willing to see other perspectives , but there's certain problems or certain viewpoints that you can't necessarily get along with .

Tammy Hershberger 13:56

You just have to tolerate it but I think that's both sides truly . I mean , like your viewpoint , my viewpoint , john's viewpoint . We all have to tolerate each other , because we could all be stubborn , as john's saying , and say you're right're right , he's right , I'm right , and then we literally get nowhere . That's in business , that's in government , that's in life , right , being a parent , you can be stubborn and dig in and say you're not doing that , and then your kid's going to say well , I respect each other's opinions

Navigating Generational Perspectives in Society

Tammy Hershberger 14:24

. And then figuring out , which is the million dollar question of how do we figure out how to all work together ? Right , because don't you have that work ? I mean , I'm sure you've had employees or co-workers where you've been that you do not agree with them or you don't maybe even like them . Have you ever had that ? Because I have .

Tammy Hershberger 14:40

Yeah , and at the end of the day , we have to come together for a common goal of , like , getting the job done , serving the ice cream , making the pizza , building sheds , whatever . It is Right , but we had to at that time figure out this is the problem . Now let's all come together and figure out how to do it . Don't you agree ? Yeah , because I think your boss can be a dictator and just be like do it this way , or I can get my team together and say , okay , this is the goal . How do we best make it happen ? Because I think we all have something great to add to it . Any thoughts on that , john ?

John Hershberger 15:14

I mean I I think we need to work on being okay with not agreeing with each other , but not getting angry at each other because we disagree . That's where I stand on it , like I don't think just because you disagree that you've got to get angry right away .

Tammy Hershberger 15:31

Well , we know , anger shuts people down .

John Hershberger 15:33

It does .

Tammy Hershberger 15:34

Or even being confrontational or telling them they're wrong . It's not a way to approach people and it's not a way to solve problems .

John Hershberger 15:40

No .

Tammy Hershberger 15:41

Because I think all of us have so much to give in life . I mean Katie , no , because I think all of us have so much to give in life . I mean katie's got experiences and thoughts and new ideas that I don't have , and john's got stuff that I don't have , and I think the more we can all work together to fix the problems , whether we agree or not , I think we can all learn from each other , and sometimes I think people that are different sometimes come up with the best solutions because all aspects get brought together right versus just one side yeah , no , I think I think we gotta be more open to being okay with not agreeing with somebody , without getting upset that we don't agree , because the fact is we don't all agree yeah , and not all demanding our way .

Tammy Hershberger 16:20

Basically , okay , um , as you start your adult , jeez , I can't even talk your adult life , katie , what are you most excited about ? Experiencing new experiences , seeing new people , meeting new people , groups yeah , do you remember , john , when you were that age , what you were most like when you were 18 ? You were probably just barely out the the Amish I don't . Was it kind of the same thing with her when you left the Amish ? Was it just seeing the world and what's out there ?

John Hershberger 16:50

Maybe I don't know that I even thought about it .

Tammy Hershberger 16:54

I remember for myself , I was excited to not be in school anymore . I mean , college is school , but it's different . I remember thinking like I can actually do what I want to do because I moved out , went on my own . And I remember thinking like my whole future is ahead of me , because teachers tell you what to do every single day . And , yeah , you're learning what it's not your way . And if you're very controlling and stubborn like I am , I'm like I'm gonna do this , I'm gonna do it my way , I'm gonna make my mistakes and I'm gonna learn . And I think that was probably . Is there anything , anything that scares you , katie ? No , I remember being scared , thinking I don't know how I'm going to pay my bills . I'm going to starve to death .

Katie Hershberger 17:31

I could be worried about that , but I don't think I would use scared to describe that , because you can worry about something , without necessarily being abrasive towards it .

Tammy Hershberger 17:44

And did you have anything , John , when you left the Amish at 17 ?

John Hershberger 17:49

I don't know , I don't remember .

Tammy Hershberger 17:52

See , for me I use fear as a driving factor , like fear to me , is what pushes me to keep going . So , like , when I start a business , I'm scared sometimes that I'm going to fail and I'm going to starve to death , and so then I use that as a driving factor , like , if I push hard and I continue to go and I don't back down , that's what's going to get me there and it's always worked . Anything no comments ? Okay , um , what's the next question ? What's your biggest challenge to achieve your future goals or plans , katie , at your age .

Katie Hershberger 18:23

I can't necessarily say that I have one I don't know . I I got the scholarship that makes that allows me to go to college , and that was the biggest challenge that I had .

Tammy Hershberger 18:35

And now I'm past that and I'm able to go and do something I've always dreamed of is there any rules with your scholarship , like you have to keep a certain grade point average or they don't ? It doesn't matter .

Katie Hershberger 18:45

I didn't see anything when I was reading up on it , but I'm planning on keeping a certain GPA anyway .

Tammy Hershberger 18:50

Yeah , um , is there anything I mean ? I think for you it should be pretty easy , because you you're smart kids , you get good grades , you don't party , You're not cause a lot of times . That's the stuff that trips kids up at your age . They go to college , they party too much , then they're distracted , they don't get good grades . Or if it's a sports scholarship , then they have to keep in shape and the grades don't matter as much .

John Hershberger 19:10

But there's other things , and so I have to ask you , john was there any challenges for you when you left the Amish when you were her age ?

Tammy Hershberger 19:22

Yeah , I needed to get clothes and a job .

John Hershberger 19:27

And how did you do that ? It was through people that I knew .

Tammy Hershberger 19:34

I guess you'd say Was there ever a thought of like ? I made a mistake .

John Hershberger 19:38

I don't think so .

Tammy Hershberger 19:39

Okay , just curious . All right , we're going to switch gears to society and culture .

Katie Hershberger 19:50

Katie , how do you think the societal norms and values will change in the coming decades ?

Tammy Hershberger 19:52

well , it really depends on who you're talking to and who you're around , but I'm hoping for more acceptance towards diversity of all people groups all um relations yeah , I think I mean , whether we agree or not on that stuff , it's like , at the end of the day , I still love those people , I love them , I love . The bible is very clear about loving people . Uh , I do think you don't always have to agree on what they do and it's their life . You know what I mean . I try to be more accepting of that , because I'm like I may not totally agree or may not be cool with it for myself , but at the end of the day , I love them . I want them to be happy , I want them to have a good life , I want them to build the life that they want , which is what I hope you do with your life .

Katie Hershberger 20:30

Go out and that's exactly one of the points I like to push . If it's not harming you in any way , why should you care ? Or if it's not harming others , why do you care about ?

Tammy Hershberger 20:43

what they do . Yeah , I think , as long as we're unfair on both sides because , again , you get to do what you want to do I can still have my feelings and do what I want to do , but I agree , as long as you're not hurting anyone and I think there's we won't get too far into that . But I think you have to be careful with children , young kids . Let them be them for a while and when they're adults they can decide what they want to be right , right , who they are , what they are , cause I think in society in general will tell us as kids I mean that like I was telling you about this morning in the car , like I was taught very young age to people , please , right To like , so I wouldn't get my ass kicked and I had to make sure that , like I was always perfect for everything and I couldn't make a mistake . And then I grew up being a perfectionist and like that's not good .

Tammy Hershberger 21:22

I don't think you should tell people who they are . Let them figure it out , because I think as you age , I think guarantee in 10 years you're going to have different views on some stuff , what I don't know what direction that'll be , and my views have drastically changed . Since I was a kid , uh , I used to be even more closed off than I am now , and I've opened myself up a lot . Do you have any change ? Have you noticed that with yourself , john , at all , that you've changed since you were 18 years old ?

John Hershberger 21:45

I mean , I've been with you all those years oh yeah , I've changed yeah I'm not a sinner anymore I think I got saved , changed me a lot I think life changes you .

Tammy Hershberger 21:57

I think living and this is stuff katie will experience , you know friendships change you . You lose them . You gain them . Family is always there . That is going to something I'm going to tell you 2500 times is like friends . You think they're always going to be with you . I've had friends that were so close to me . They we ate at their house three times a week and then , over time , life changes . They get married , they get divorced , they get habits that are not good for them . They , whatever , sometimes they just turn into jerks and they , they leave you behind and I think you always got to remember your family's always there and your family loves you , no matter where you are . I think we're friends . They come and go . They really do . You think they're all your friends .

Tammy Hershberger 22:29

I don't talk to most of the kids I went to high school with . I never even kept up with them . People we had for 10 years in our life are no longer in our life . Life changes . Our directions , our paths change . Sometimes you move and you leave them behind and you try to stay in touch , but it's not easy , and so I'm trying to think for katie . I don't know , are you as far as the people ? Are you just excited to meet new people , new experience , because minnesota's very rural where you are , you're going to .

Katie Hershberger 22:57

I've never been to maine so I don't know what that's like , but maine is a very it's it's not very diverse of a place , but colleges tend to be a breeding ground for new people , new experiences , because it brings perspectives people in right from all over .

Tammy Hershberger 23:11

Yeah , yeah , I want to see . My next question is what change would you like to see in the way we approach issues like mental health , diversity or education ? Can we hit all three of those really fast ? I know you've talked about diversity . What about education ? Let's about that .

Katie Hershberger 23:26

Education is something I'm really passionate about . I believe that the public education system in the United States should be extremely improved . With the way it is right now , it's treated more as a daycare than it is as an actual education system , and I believe that academia has a place in every person's life , and I think that every single person in the united states deserves access to a free and a robust education system . Of course , not school's not for everybody , but we can alter the way the system is now to make it more appealing to other people . We can make more involved changes , more active changes . Let people choose what they want to see , read , hear and all while doing that , expose them to many different types of people , so that we don't grow up thinking in our own little bubble

Education System Reform and Personalized Learning

Katie Hershberger 24:21

.

Tammy Hershberger 24:21

Can I ask a couple questions on that ? Sure , because there's a lot . You said that's really good . Um , obviously , elementary , middle school , high school is free , which is paid by education , by people like us taxpayers . Um , can I ask that and I don't mean this diverse of it or to be I can't think of the word divisive , I'm just asking so for college , because free college is one thing . I had to pay for my own college . I got a scholarship and then I paid for the rest . My only question on that is how do you make sure that the kids that are going because there is a lot of kids that go to just party Now , kids like me and you that was not us , we wanted to go actually learn ? How do we make sure that doesn't happen ? Because you could spend years there and I'm paying for it on my taxpayer money .

Katie Hershberger 25:02

And then there's kids like me and you who want to go and we were poor kids . Well , personally I think that if they want to attend college for partying , they should be allowed to do that . They're still enrolled .

Tammy Hershberger 25:12

They're still full-time students , but you and I are going to pay for that on our tax dollars , because our tax money goes for that . Katie , I'm okay with that . You're going to be okay with that when you start paying taxes . You really think so ? Taxes ?

Katie Hershberger 25:20

yeah , but you're gonna pay a lot more when you get the job force , but I'm okay with that .

Tammy Hershberger 25:24

So you're cool with just so I could go .

Katie Hershberger 25:26

You'd be cool paying for me to just go party if you were an 18 year old fresh out of high school and you were desperate to find a new experience or a new place , but how do you get them out of the party stage ? Most , most children will grow out of it . I mean , how else do they graduate ? They either drop out or they graduate and they drop out .

Tammy Hershberger 25:44

That's less that you're paying for , but don't you think that's kind of a waste ? Because I would rather take that money and put it in kids like you who are smart , who want to learn something and are not just there to spend money and get a free ride for four years . Can I ask you a question ? Do you think if you have to pay for something versus free , you take it more serious because it costs you your money .

Katie Hershberger 26:09

Personally , no , yeah , I value other people's contributions and I value the um what's the word ?

Tammy Hershberger 26:13

I value the opportunities that I'm given , free or not yeah , but I think that comes because nothing was handed to us as kids like your mom worked damn hard to provide for you . My mom worked pretty hard and my brothers worked to make sure we had food and all that and I think when stuff is handed to kids , I don't think they appreciate it . Because I watched it in high school . I knew rich kids and I have nothing against rich kids , but these rich kids they have these freaking nice cars . I'm driving a piece of crap and they just would destroy them and they're like oh , dad , don't buy me another one .

Tammy Hershberger 26:41

Well , that's not teaching , the responsibility , that's not appreciation , and I think that's the separation I'm talking about . I just want to make sure that the kids that are getting the free you know , because there's tons of donations and people donate to scholarships and all these programs and I'm okay with that as long as you go and you are serious about it , because kids like me and you need extra help financially . We couldn't afford it . Can I ask you now , on the question you had about changing the schools how do we do it ? What does it look like ? What ideas do you have ?

Katie Hershberger 27:07

I think that schools should be more focused on a peer-to-peer education and I believe that they should be taking every child's personal needs and wants into account , rather than having a one-size-fits-all system . And I believe that there should be an extreme amount of more funding put towards the education system because , as it is now , teachers are having to pay for their own classroom supplies , they're getting severely underpaid and it's leading to alongside external factors like the actual behavior of the students , it's leading to a mass exodus of teachers in the field . Yeah , I agree um , do you ?

Tammy Hershberger 27:44

because I agree with you . I know there's some charter schools that do that kind of stuff . I don't , I've never been a part of them , but I agree . I think you should look at the kids and what they're interested in , what their talents are , you know , whether it's math or science or whatever you know . Give them the generals as you're like elementary school . But then as you start to get older and you decide this is I would like to see that more for career path , because you're going to college to learn a career or something right , why not start that in high school where , like , if you are really good at science , you want to be a bookkeeper or accountant or scientist or whatever you want to do , start giving them classes to teach them that stuff because , I agree , I think you're just wasting time in there .

Katie Hershberger 28:17

Well , students are given classes to teach them that stuff ? Yeah , but don't you think it's ? Very general yeah , I took a bunch of crap I didn't .

Katie Hershberger 28:23

I don't want science , I don't care , I don't do science the way I view high school is more as a of a melting pot of different opportunities and things to try out , and students that are curious can take advantage of that , and students that aren't can just breeze their way through , and I don't think a student should be able to breeze their way through . But I do believe that there should still be requirements and that students should still be put into classes that they may not be excited about necessarily , but I believe that the teacher should instead find a way to make it at least a little more engaging to those students .

Tammy Hershberger 28:59

I think I agree in somewhat on a case some with you . I agree middle school , because you're still learning who you are . You're figuring out like what am I good at ? I think by high school I mean you're spending four years . I took science classes that I sucked at and I got terrible grades because no one was teaching me . I didn't understand , I didn't like it , I would rather have had .

Tammy Hershberger 29:15

At that age I grew younger . At that age I would have rather taken more business classes , more math classes , whatever I needed to do in the business realm , because that's the direction I went in life , right , and I went to school , college for that . And then obviously you do have electives you can take , and so I did take . I mean I think that helps direct you some because I could take the stuff that interested me . Do they still kind of have like , because I was reading recently , not in this state but another state they're going to require like 12 , or no , it wasn't 12 .

Tammy Hershberger 29:46

It was six credits of just science . For someone like me I would have . That was six credits . I would have to take that instead of two , I don't know . Back in mind it was like one credit per year or whatever , and so , like I took two years of science , I that was enough for me . I was done because I didn't like it . I had no interest in it and I felt like it was wasting my time sitting there when I would let some other kids sit there that loves this . You know what I mean .

Katie Hershberger 30:05

I believe that high school is more about learning how to problem solve than it is about necessarily becoming an expert in a certain field because , like you said , all the classes are very general but those different general classes can teach you different ways to approach things , like with science courses . I wasn't a fan of science myself . I didn't enjoy the classes well . I didn't enjoy the classes well . I didn't hate the classes . I liked the material , even though I didn't like science material . Um , but I was able to enjoy it because I was being taught how to view things from an experimental standpoint how to view things from a point where failure can be okay and you find a different way to approach it .

Katie Hershberger 30:43

And and math classes for students . That teaches quantitative reasoning , it teaches ways to approach problems in a very streamlined fashion because of equations and such , and you can continue to say things like that about English courses or language courses and stuff like that . They all have their own unique ways of teaching you how to learn . I think of high school more as a way to prepare you for the types of learning you need in college , and I do believe there should be opportunities for students to take more classes keen to their interests to take more classes keen to their interests , but I don't believe that they shouldn't have these um classes where they may not be excited to show up because I mean , I also know , like my brothers were the type that if they didn't like it I mean not , there's kids like that they just they literally did not show up for class , they would skip those classes .

Tammy Hershberger 31:43

And I understand , like I get what you're saying . It's a generalized , you're getting a melting pot of different things , different experiences , different styles , um , but I think at the same time you're not reaching those kids who are just skipping it . Or me , I had a horrible teacher and I learned nothing . I mean , I don't have a freaking clue what I was learning in science . I remember like the anatomy and stuff like that , but the mixing chemicals I don't have it . I don't know to this day what happened , but why ?

Katie Hershberger 32:05

should that take away the class rather than replacing the ?

Tammy Hershberger 32:09

teacher . Well , I think , replace the teacher . I don't think you should take the class away . I think let the class be for kids who have exciting , you know , kids who love who , the math nerds or science nerds or whatever , or they're going to be doctors and nurses and whatever they are . I think let them focus on that side of school , right . And then let me focus on the sides that are , because I don't think we should make it like , oh , I'm just going to take the easy stuff gym , right .

Tammy Hershberger 32:29

I'm not saying that because I think you'll let kids fall through the cracks , but I think if you had guidance , counselors and people really talking and investing and like , what am I interested in ? Looking at the things , know if they're good at science , if you don't teach them right , so I'm not saying get rid of it , I'm just saying like , give them some of it a year or two , like I had to take , and then like , let them go on to the other things that they're better at , but don't let them just take the easy classes , because that's not good either . What do you think , john ?

John Hershberger 32:58

well , I mean , as far as , uh , I agree with you that you shouldn't be forced to take a class that you have zero interest in life , because I'm very much with you that it'd be a waste of time , and it's also , if you have no interest in it , it's very difficult to learn from it because you're just going to go through the steps that they tell you to do . It's just like you said , that teacher might have not even been a bad teacher , it's just , you had no interest , I didn't get it and he didn't .

Tammy Hershberger 33:33

I don't feel like he explained it , so so you were also not present it's possible . I mean

Schooling Perspectives and Peer Education

Tammy Hershberger 33:40

, it's been a long time ago . But and I bring you in because you have such a different schooling perspective than us but , um , you were a kid that didn't like school , right like you hated it , and you'd rather have been doing something else .

Tammy Hershberger 33:52

I'd rather go to work so I'm just curious because we're talking . I appreciate Katie being here because this talks about the different perspectives . We all see things different and it's okay and we can discuss it and put it out there and we still love each other at the end of the day . But I'm just curious on your side because you have such a different childhood than us . Schooling to you was what . If you said schooling is what , what would it be ?

Tammy Hershberger 34:13

reading , spelling and arithmetic and English the base , that the core foundation basically . Do you feel like you got ripped off at all because you had such a different ? I mean , the eighth grade is where it ends for you you have very different teachers . No , okay , gotcha . Do you have anything else to add , john ?

Tammy Hershberger 34:30

I believe I was forced into school for too long which you were always very mechanical , so like that's my example . So for john , because he's good with his hands and fixing stuff , I feel like he would have been better going into stuff that would have taught him that right . Like I even in school took a small engines class just because my brothers were mechanics and I wanted to know . I didn't really understand combustion and all that stuff , but I thought it was kind of fun to like learn a different side , kind of like you are excited for the classes . You're going into a college , right , because what did you say ? A couple of them were what did you say ?

Katie Hershberger 35:04

a couple of them were I'm taking multivariable calculus , I'm taking introduction to creative writing and I'm taking a course on modern Chinese society , and elementary Japanese .

Tammy Hershberger 35:18

So I mean a variety of things there . But for you , because you're still in your , they call them that's not generals . Are those electives ? What do they call those at your school ?

Katie Hershberger 35:25

It's a liberal arts college so there isn't necessarily generals but there are requirements that you must meet . But you can take those through whatever classes you like that meet those requirements .

Tammy Hershberger 35:34

Okay , that's cool . So she's getting a variety of things there , whereas like John's school was very basic I mean obviously the most important stuff , but like science wasn't really taught , history probably wasn't really taught . And I do think that kids because I feel like you were saying earlier about you were talking about peer-to-peer education . Can you explain that to me a little bit ?

Katie Hershberger 35:57

I believe that students should be given the materials that they need , but I also believe in discussion , because I feel like that's one of the things that my school really struggled with is , class discussions were often silent , and I feel that's a common occurrence across many , many schools .

Tammy Hershberger 36:14

And that's a big part of critical thinking , right .

Katie Hershberger 36:16

Yes , and I believe it's not that I believe my peers . I believe my peers were great at critical thinking , but I think it was more so . They hadn't really gotten much experience with peer-to-peer education , and so that led them to be hesitant to share their thoughts in most situations , and then you'd have only a few students actually contributing to conversation , and I think if we started encouraging discussion like that very early on , it would become much more natural for our students , which is perfect because that fits into business

Promoting Critical Thinking and Mental Health

Katie Hershberger 36:50

.

Tammy Hershberger 36:50

Because I had a podcast I did about critical thinking and they were saying in interviews people don't have that ability to critically think things through and we notice that sometimes , where people don't even know what the I mean I'm talking , once they're trained on their job , they don't even know what the next step is . They just can't think far ahead of , like what's the next step to fix this thing right ? Like you , what's that you always talk about with the guys in the shop , how you like them to know what the next step is without you having to always tell them , like when building something or I would call it uh , think ahead like see where you're going I don't know , I don't know the technical term for it .

Tammy Hershberger 37:27

Yeah , I also think that it causes issues in the workplace because , like you were saying , nobody wants to speak up . So , whether it's an issue that needs addressed , nobody wants to speak up . If we're trying to you know brainstorm , and we're coming up with a new idea , a new product , a new offering and we're trying to get our people's opinion because we're all different , we have different experiences people are not speaking up . I noticed that in meetings I would have in my window cleaning business . When there was six , seven of us , I'd ask for , you know , ideas or comments . I could get maybe two people to speak . The rest were too shy . So I think you're right , kay . I think that's a huge thing , just , and that would work in almost every class you take right .

Katie Hershberger 38:04

I think , and especially in English classes where you're reading books and you are really honing in that critical thinking skill , I think that could especially help With classes like math . I could see where it would be less applicable , but there's definitely room for group discussion .

Tammy Hershberger 38:18

Yeah , I'm hoping colleges are doing more of that . I haven't been in college in a long time , but I didn't have any of that in my college at all .

Katie Hershberger 38:28

I doing more of that ? I don't . I haven't been in college in a long time , but I didn't have any of that in my college at all . I learned none of that I'm going to a very small college , so I feel that it's going to be more common than it would be if I was in a giant lecture hall .

Tammy Hershberger 38:33

Sure , because you have more ability to hear everybody's opinion , which , see , I think that also plays into what you were saying about diversity and being more open to each other . When it's commonplace to have discussions of how you see things , he sees things , I think it helps open your mind up a little bit of like , I never thought of that . I mean , that's why I try to always hear everybody's side , because there's times I'm like I actually never thought of that . What you're saying , you know , and even if I don't fully go to your side , it makes me see things a little bit different or different perspectives , and that's why I think it's good to talk to each other , because your life is not my life and your experience is not my experience , and I think you can learn from people in their past of like I went through this trauma , I went through this and I came out okay , right , and I think we were talking about . Mental health is one of the questions here . Do you have anything on mental health ?

Katie Hershberger 39:18

No , I think mental health is severely demonized right now and I don't think it should be , Can you explain ?

Katie Hershberger 39:32

demonize ? I think I know what you mean , but , um , in a societal standpoint , people tend to think of others that have mental health disorders as inhumane or psychotic , when that's not the case . Or there's this common misconception that people with depression are lazy , when it's not that they're lazy . A lot of the time they desperately want to go out and do something , but because of their mental illness and because of the trouble they're going through , it's impossible for them , if I mean I don't have my father has been diagnosed clinically depressed .

Tammy Hershberger 39:56

I've never been like that far gone , but I have had depression , anxiety I deal with , and sometimes the depression for me , when I was at my worst , with the burnout I could barely , I mean I'd get myself out of bed because I didn't have a choice . But there was days I didn't want to get up , and I've talked about it . There was days I didn't want to wake up . I was like I just I'm done , just let it be done , right . And so what do you think we do to fix that , to help that ?

Katie Hershberger 40:19

well . I think that mental illness should be treated less hush-hush . I think it should be talked about more often and more so viewed as a different experience than a problem , because even the most severe cases of mental disorder , they're still human and they still go through everyday life like anybody else a lot of the time , or they go through life in a slightly altered way , but that doesn't make them any less human , even if people try treating them like that .

Tammy Hershberger 40:53

Yeah , I mean , I definitely think it's improved since the 50s , when you had a little mental illness , they would give you a lobotomy . It was crazy . I think it's improved . Do 50s , when you had a little mental illness , they would give you a lobotomy ? It was crazy . Um , I think it's improved . Do you think covid changed for your generation ? Because I hear and I don't know if that's true , but I read in the news and things that covid really affected your generation because you were locked down at home and you couldn't get out and see your friends and you were at school . Do you feel like that's true or I don't think it necessarily .

Katie Hershberger 41:15

I I do believe that mental illness is slightly more accepted , but especially with older generations and the people there are people who will be discriminated against because they have something like schizophrenia or they have ADHD and then they can't get a job or they can't join certain groups because of it , and that's a major problem . But I do believe that with the lockdown from COVID it gave people a chance to really experiment and find out who they really are , even if they kind of just reverted after the lockdown was over .

Supporting Mental Health in Schools

Tammy Hershberger 41:50

Do you think it made it worse or better ?

Katie Hershberger 41:52

Made what worse . Like mental health in general , mental health was definitely worse . Humans are social creatures , yeah .

Tammy Hershberger 42:00

Yeah , so I think we have to try to reverse that , and so do you think that stuff needs to be taught more in the schools , more just in the tv ?

Katie Hershberger 42:08

I don't , I don't know I think social awareness is important and it is some uh . Information on mental illness is shared within the schools , but I don't think it's nearly as in-depth as it needs to be . And I believe that it would be important for children to be aware because , even if they , it can help with understanding oneself better . Because , for example , there's a lot of people that go that have autism , that are undiagnosed throughout their entire life and they just feel out of place or they feel like a quote-unquote freak because they don't interact with people the same way or they don't think the same way as others , and when they find out , oh , this really explains me .

Tammy Hershberger 42:58

Well , it helps build understanding and it helps people feel less ostracized yeah , yeah , I think school is a good , but I think kids are kind of mean , and that starts in elementary school . I mean you're a little different and kids will pick you apart . I mean I was even just poor and like the kids would make fun of me because I had crappy clothes and I didn't have the stuff they had and I had a free lunch . I remember sitting at the breakfast table one time and they , they came up to me and I had , you know , my dirty little jacket and I was probably not very clean hair and I remember them just making fun of me and I just thought it was so it stuck with me . I'm 41 and I've never gotten rid of that like why I was no different than you , I just didn't have the clothes . And and then I remember like I made my own way through high school because I didn't , you know , I was never like an outcast per se , but I was not a popular kid . I just kind of made my own little few friends and that's all I needed . And then you know , I think that makes you stronger , but also it's hard . And so I think if you start younger , and then I think talking about , I think , places like this , where you just admit it . I think everybody has to put on a's why I'm open about it on here .

Tammy Hershberger 43:52

Like there was times I was suicidal . There was times I was not okay . There was times I was on pills for anxiety because I couldn't get out . I couldn't leave my damn house , katie , it was that bad , and my boss made me leave and go to the doctor and so for a couple years I was on pills and eventually I felt good enough and I went off and I've been in a long time . But it kind of comes and goes and I think if people make it so , it's not like you're a weirdo , like stuff happens . Life is hard , and the longer you live life , the harder it gets sometimes , because a lot of things happen people die , you lose jobs , you lose friends , I mean you get sick , or your body's not what it used to be or whatever , and so I think it's really good that you bring that up , because I think it's something we have to pay attention to . So the school system is the best place you think .

John Hershberger 44:38

I think parents need to get involved .

Katie Hershberger 44:40

Yeah , I believe that .

John Hershberger 44:41

Parents need to be present in that process , because it's the parent's job to raise their child and to help their children .

Tammy Hershberger 44:50

And so does that mean just paying more attention to what your kid's going through , what they need yeah , be present . Because I absolutely agree with that . So do you think people just don't pay attention ?

John Hershberger 45:02

Yes . They're too busy I think parents are distracted , and I think parents are absent too much at a time .

Tammy Hershberger 45:10

Yeah .

Katie Hershberger 45:11

Would you agree with that , katie ? I do agree . I think that it's definitely part of a parent's responsibility to educate their child , especially on how different people may live . But , however , um , like john said , parents are often absent , so that's why I think it's very important for that to be present in the school system as well , because if kids aren't going to be taught about it by their parents , they need to learn somewhere yeah , that's true .

Tammy Hershberger 45:34

So the school is actually kind of a secondary place , like a backup almost . Yeah , I yeah , I'm glad you brought that up , john , I didn't even think about that Like yeah , truly , your parents , I mean my mom never recognized anything in me .

John Hershberger 45:46

That's what I mean . There's too many parents that are not involved with their children .

Tammy Hershberger 45:50

What do you think ? Is it just we're just too busy and everything's expensive and we're trying to build these big lives .

John Hershberger 46:01

Well , I big lives and well , I mean there's a lot of uh , parents that get separated , so then that makes it a single family home , which then the only parent that's left is now out working yeah and and they have to provide for the household and they don't have time to be present . I mean , I think there is things they can do that would still help a lot .

John Hershberger 46:25

Such as Well , I mean , I'm not a parent so I can't really say . I just feel like there's how about being present while you're there , I mean , but the reality is they're also tired . I mean , if you're the only one providing for the household , you're tired when you get home , so you also won't feel like it . But I mean the reality is a child still needs that time .

Tammy Hershberger 46:55

Do you have anything to add to that , Katie ?

Katie Hershberger 46:58

Even in cases where you aren't considering divorce , a lot of the times families can't afford to live and both parents are working . So , like you said , a lot of time it's difficult to be present for your child . The best way to deal with that ? Because obviously the parents can't quit their jobs . They need to afford to live . But I think it's important to just listen to your child because in cases like that , the child's probably going to have a lot of screen time or they're going to have a lot of alone time to think . So I think it's important to just listen to your child and believe them when they say they feel a certain way or they feel they might identify with something .

Tammy Hershberger 47:35

Do you think the screen time ? Because obviously I'm not a parent either , but I feel like if I was a parent and I saw my kid constantly secluded , something , because , like you said , we're social people , I mean , that's how God made us , that's how we are , we need to have people , we need to have connection , and they've even had studies where babies will die if they don't have love and connection from their mother . And so do you feel like or I feel like , as a parent , I would be like hey , kid , come out , let's talk , let's go do something fun , let's find something that you enjoy , right , and let's communicate . So if there's a parent out there listening right now that has a teenager , katie , how do you relate to someone if you've kind of blown it and you want to now try to fix it ? Is it too late ?

Katie Hershberger 48:12

Well , it's never too late to try to reconnect , but what ? What you need to do is you need to show that effort without forcing them out of their bubble . You need to allow them to approach you and make them aware that you're willing to be approached now .

Tammy Hershberger 48:24

So you think it's

Technology's Impact on Human Connections

Tammy Hershberger 48:25

just the conversation . Like you know , maybe in addressing that , like maybe I wasn't there for you or I wasn't there for you and I'm not going to force you , but I would love for you to be able to talk to me . Is that kind of what you're saying ?

Katie Hershberger 48:33

yeah , I think there's a big problem where a lot of parents aren't willing to apologize to their child yeah , yeah , I do .

Tammy Hershberger 48:41

I can see that . I think parents think they have to be the bigger person and be the perfect ones and can never admit they messed up where I do think it's very human and humbling for anyone , whether you're a parent , a friend , whatever to admit when you messed up , and for a kid or someone your age even it probably is makes them seem more real to you , right , when they admit that like I messed this up . And when I say real , I mean like they're a human being . They have feelings , they have trouble , they have hurts , you know .

Katie Hershberger 49:09

I'm not really sure personally , because I've never held people in a place of idolization . I've never felt that anyone was too perfect or too like . I never viewed anyone as anything other than natural and human okay .

Tammy Hershberger 49:30

Do you have anything to add to that , john ? Like if your parents because I would imagine the amish they don't do that do what like admit when they've messed up or try to really connect with you .

John Hershberger 49:43

I don't know . I left before they had a chance .

Tammy Hershberger 49:45

But you were 17 years old , they had time to connect with you Because I always kind of felt like you may have sound like not that your parents were bad parents , but they didn't really have a lot of connection . They didn't love on you , they didn't hug you , they didn't spend a lot of time with you .

John Hershberger 49:56

It was a lot of work I would say the biggest thing is their love looks different than what we recognize what does it look like ? Just I don't , I don't know . I mean , like you said , they don't talk to you , but yet they love you . I mean , it's a , it's a different , uh , culture interesting .

Tammy Hershberger 50:23

I mean I remember getting hugs when I was younger from my mother , um , and I would just kind of hug her as an adult , um , but I don't remember a lot of like good jobs . I would actually ask her , like are you proud of me , mom ? When I graduate high school I was like are you ? Because I don't think I ever heard that . Like I was the first one in my family to graduate , even though I had older brothers and my mom never graduated . And so , like I always think I wanted to hear that . Like yeah , she did a really good job .

Tammy Hershberger 50:45

You know , and not everybody needs that , but some kids want to hear it like you did good and I would have to ask or whatever , and then I would get it . But so I think if you're a parent listening , I Katie's a great example because she's living the life she's there now . I mean , we've been out a long time since that , but I think it's important to spend time with your kids , love your kids , invest in your kids and pay attention , because if they're acting different , something is not right .

John Hershberger 51:13

Something's changed is what I would say . In the reality is , you had the kids .

Tammy Hershberger 51:23

So you should take responsibility , yeah , of them . I agree um katie for technology , because it's changing so fast . Um what do you think it's going to do to human relationships in the community life ?

Katie Hershberger 51:31

well you can already see how technology has affected um . Children are being given um screens as soon as they can manage and it's really affected how they develop mentally and empathy has been a problem . That is , or a lack of empathy , has been seen very common in schools and it's really a struggle for teachers because how do you get a child that really hasn't had that person-to-person contact understand that it's not okay to treat people how they , however they want ?

Tammy Hershberger 52:04

yeah , so starting too young with with . I agree with you on that and I think I think you take their imagination away . Like I understand you have a video game that's been created by somebody , but I'm like when we were kids , we had to create stuff and imagine things and pretend and whatever that looked like for you . I feel like we took that away from them , especially at an early age .

Katie Hershberger 52:24

I wouldn't necessarily say that , I think their imagination just looks very different what's it look like ?

Katie Hershberger 52:29

now it's more based in what they've consumed , because , of course , imagination doesn't necessarily come out of nowhere . It's formed by our experiences and how we lived up to that point . So when I was younger , I would do imaginary games with Pokemon because I was really into Pokemon cards . But kids , these days they're doing imaginary oh , I'm going to pretend to be a YouTuber or I'm going to pretend to be . They're more secluded in their playtime . They do a lot of more single person pretending instead of group and social .

Tammy Hershberger 53:08

Yeah , because we always had our friends over and we could not wait and we'd stay out until it's dark and we had to go home yeah , and you can't really do that nowadays yeah , and I think the only thing I worry about with the technology is games , especially I'm .

Tammy Hershberger 53:19

I like to play games , don't get me wrong . I like video games , but I think if that's all your kids doing , like you said , there's no social , because even though you have I don't know , they have this game stuff where you can like talk to each other and fight your friend , but that's still not interaction in person .

Katie Hershberger 53:32

Yeah , it's not face to face , and that's where the problem arises . I think that video games are an incredible way to bond with people , though , um , and I think that it definitely can be added to your social life , but I don't think it should be the complete synthesis of your social life yeah , because I watch .

Tammy Hershberger 53:48

Um , a friend of mine's kids I mean it's been a while ago now , but they would like , what do you want to do ? And they just they were five to eight years old and then they used to want to just play outside all the time and then once they got the video game system , that's all they wanted to tv or video games . And I was like I don't have a problem with some time of that , but I don't think that's all you should do . Go out and play , because that's why I like board games because you're face to face , you're interacting , you're laughing , you're having fun , you're making fun of each other , whatever or whatever you're doing outside to create something . I mean , john , you grew up , obviously , without technology . What's your take on it ?

Tammy Hershberger 54:21

we had to work did you get creative in your work at least ? I'm sure we did yeah , do you think this ? Um , what does that call ? Where you like , meta or whatever , where you live in the world ? Do you know I'm talking about vr ? Is vr kind of because , like metaverse , which I'm reading , is actually they're running out of money ? Um , do you think that's going to really become something ?

Katie Hershberger 54:43

no , no , I don't think there's a chance . It had its moment and now it's depleting so fast because there hasn't been any innovation in the field . Yeah , it would take something incredible to actually make that viable yeah , and I know ai no , I don't think AI would be the fix , otherwise it would have already been fixed . What ?

John Hershberger 55:02

do you think AI ? Yeah , but I think AI is going to come a long ways from where it is right now .

Katie Hershberger 55:06

Oh , it already has come a long ways , and I think , it'll continue to come a long ways , especially because colleges are implementing programs to study and research AI and it definitely has many directions that it can go do you think ai , though , is going to be more ?

Tammy Hershberger 55:26

I don't know what the word is , if it's like for production , business life , not so much this . What I was talking about , like the metaverse where you're living in this fake world virtual , you know , because I feel like when you do that , I mean it's one thing for a little while , then , like , if you get sucked into that , how is that ? Why don't you just go live ? Real life is how I feel . You know what I mean . Like why do you have to pretend to be this virtual person that you can make yourself to be what you want ?

Katie Hershberger 55:50

being that virtual person is a lot less , or a lot , yeah , a lot less stressful , or , um , you might find more community in online spaces , especially if you tend to be a person that doesn't necessarily fit in with a generic image of who people should be so is that why they like it ?

Tammy Hershberger 56:10

you think Because they can kind of create their character and create their self the way they want to be .

Katie Hershberger 56:15

I think it's more so they can find people like them , so they can find community okay , interesting .

Tammy Hershberger 56:24

Do you have anything on that job ? Okay , um , I think . Did I ask you what excites you most about going to college ? I think we think so . Okay , I thought so um , is there any technology that's emerging that you're super excited about or concerned about , or both ?

Katie Hershberger 56:43

I mean , I don't really want to spend the entire time talking about a high but , um , currently , with the way it's going , it's taking a lot of jobs away and it's especially seen in creative fields like art or animation , and I think that it's never going to be as good as if a person does it .

Tammy Hershberger 57:02

I agree with you , yeah , so that's probably excited , and not because it is kind of interesting what they're doing , but it's concerning at the same time . Yeah , I think , oh , go ahead .

John Hershberger 57:11

For the most part , I'd probably rather not have it .

Katie Hershberger 57:15

I agree .

John Hershberger 57:15

I think there's cool aspects of it , but there's also so much that could go bad with it .

Katie Hershberger 57:22

Yeah , and I think it'll be incredible for further innovation and idea making , but I don't believe that it should be the entire process .

Tammy Hershberger 57:30

Yeah , you know , we lose the people , the people like us , right that have different views , different ideas , perspectives . I agree Same thing with robots

AI and Technology's Impact on Society

Tammy Hershberger 57:38

.

John Hershberger 57:38

It's questionable to me , and with AI you can literally put a narrative in it and it pushes that narrative out .

Katie Hershberger 57:45

Yep and a lot of the training resources for AI . They're from biased points of view and so for a while there was this huge problem of AI just being weirdly racist . That's crazy problem of AI just being weirdly racist because the source material it wasn't diverse , it was just completely , yeah , you just didn't see very much range in what they were consuming for source so really don't know what side you're on on that .

Tammy Hershberger 58:18

If the wrong hands get it , it could be very bad yeah , it doesn't matter which side . I'm just saying it could be bad because there's no both sides , there's no empathy , there's no emotion to it , there's no reality of like . This is crazy , okay , um , do you think technology is going to bring people closer together in the future , or more distant ?

Katie Hershberger 58:35

just depends on who you're talking to . How do you feel about it ? Distant just depends on who you're talking to . How do you feel about it ? I don't know . I feel like it could go either way . I don't really have an opinion on that .

Tammy Hershberger 58:45

I think it's going to make it more distant because look at , like covid , yeah we could like zoom and all that stuff , but it took people away from each other . I mean , you're not . I look at meetings . I had business meetings or coaching calls and yeah , we could meet face to face , but it was the most sterile things . I'm staring at a screen . I can't really sense the feel of the room . I can't , I don't know . It just felt very generic to me versus like looking at you in the face . I would rather do that all day . I would really talk to you in person than on a phone any day , and I mean phones . But I just think it takes away from the fun of it . And playing a video game , like in person , you sitting next to me with a remote controller or a board game we can do that online , but I just don't think it's as fun . I want to see you in person . I think I get more out of you in person .

John Hershberger 59:30

Do you have anything on that , Joan ?

Tammy Hershberger 59:31

I'd agree , agree . Okay , we're cruising along here , let's see . So , personal philosophy and reflection what values do you think are essential to carry forward in the future ?

Katie Hershberger 59:41

I think I don't know if it's necessarily a value , but empathy is really important , and I think it's , and I've said this a million times already . But I think it's important to foster diversity so that people can grow up knowing that there are different lives , different experiences , and that goes hand in hand with empathy .

Tammy Hershberger 1:00:02

And then I think being willing to share your experience , because that's what's going to help someone else , right ? Yeah , how do you define success , katie , especially your generation , because I think I mean , I think in the 50s it was way worse . In my mind , success used to be financial , money , big business , whatever . And as I'm getting older , I'm really success to me is being secure financially . I don't want to be like struggling all my life , but also having a business that my employees are happy and I've created a good job for , and then having good relationships , good friendship and then taking care of myself . What does it look like for kids your age who have their whole life ahead of them ?

Katie Hershberger 1:00:37

well , it really just depends on a person's personal values . So what about yours ? Um , well , it's due to change as they grow older and I start to think or have different problems and different values . But I personally want to be financially stable and I want to have enough money to spare so that I get to travel or see people or have a nice house .

Tammy Hershberger 1:01:07

Yeah , the career path you eventually take in business , success or and I mean maybe as an employee or whatever what does that look like for someone your age , just loving your job or not hating it , or what does ? Pays well , yeah , pays well , okay . Do you have any feedback , john , when you were ? Do you remember at her age or how much has changed for you ?

John Hershberger 1:01:29

I mean , I don't know that I was even looking for a career , I just wanted a job how do you think your values from 18 to 41 has changed ? I don't know . You don't know I mean it's changed a lot , but I don't really know how to describe it Because I don't really remember what my focus was .

Tammy Hershberger 1:01:50

I can remember for you . I mean I'll give an example when I first was dating you . It was , I mean , we didn't have money at first , but as the money came came , it was like a nice pickup . You hop it up with all the chrome and you'd put , you know , bigger exhaust and chips in it . That was like important to you . Now you're like I'm not doing any of that well , there you got it so what is that , though ? What's the change ?

John Hershberger 1:02:13

I don't know , I just don't . I guess it's not a focus of mine . I mean to it's more about having a truck that does the job .

Tammy Hershberger 1:02:22

I mean , I hear you talk a lot about people Like you want to help people , yeah , so that's probably changed more .

John Hershberger 1:02:30

I would say that's more my focus than my stuff .

Tammy Hershberger 1:02:33

Yeah , I think that does come with age because I think I used to I was pretty selfish when I was younger because I didn't know any other way . And I think that does come with age because I think I used to I was pretty selfish when I was younger because I just I didn't know any other way . And I think for me now it's helping people . I mean , obviously we are more secure . We still have to take care of ourselves , but I think my purpose in life is to help people . Help people find what they're passionate about , what they need help with . Help them see the things you know . That same , you can't see the forest through the trees because you're so close to it .

Tammy Hershberger 1:02:56

I think people sometimes are in these situations that they're just especially in business , they're struggling , they're depressed , they're burned out and they can't , they don't even know what to do , and sometimes you need someone to sit with you and just talk you through and then you start to realize like I'm working too much , I'm putting my family last , whatever it is right . So that's important for you , katie as you get older , don't burn yourself out . Find like it sounds like you have a good grasp on things , but I think sometimes you kind of lose track of that when life's going . You need money and you gotta work , and sometimes you take opportunities of like I'm gonna say no to my friends here because I need to work more , and it's like , well , you're young , life goes by so fast . There's opportunities you miss out on . Does that make sense ? Yeah , okay .

John Hershberger 1:03:37

But she's still in the age where she thinks life goes slow . No , you think time goes fast . Yeah , I do too , and I think as you get older , it goes even faster .

Tammy Hershberger 1:03:50

Do you feel like at 18 , you have your whole life ahead of you ? Still Do you have that feeling ? Or is that not something you experience ? Like ? I have so much time to figure all this out .

Katie Hershberger 1:04:01

I don't know . I mean younger people are forced earlier on to try to decide where their life is supposed to go , when they do have their life in front of them , especially with the college path yeah you're expected to pick one or two things , and that's supposed to be where the rest of your life goes , even if you have no clue yeah , I agree with you on that .

Tammy Hershberger 1:04:21

I think it's hard because , especially for kids like me who were paying for my college , I had to figure it out quick because I couldn't afford it . But I think it's hard because you have no idea what you want to do , you don't . I mean , you have some passions but like , do I really want to do that the rest of my life ? I know lots of people go to college and don't even do what they went to school for , like they just ended up in a different field or they didn't like it . Yeah , and I think it's a shame that you're paying all that money and all that time invested when it's not even , maybe , what you want to do , where you get through half of it and you're like I don't even like this . Right it's , it is hard for your age . I still think it's an experience that's worth it . So at least you're looking at from from a good perspective . It's experience , yeah , yeah .

John Hershberger 1:04:57

Do you think it'd be worth it to go into the workforce for a couple years before you decide it can ?

Katie Hershberger 1:05:02

be , but a lot of the time when students that are interested in college go straight into the workforce , they never find their way out of it and they never actually end up going to the college that they want to do .

John Hershberger 1:05:12

So do you think that's a bad thing ?

Katie Hershberger 1:05:20

If college was something that the person wanted to do , I think that it's a valuable thing that they missed out on , but they also gained different experiences through the workforce . I don't think there's necessarily a right or wrong way .

John Hershberger 1:05:30

Because my way of thinking . Obviously to me it means college was not that high on their priority , otherwise that would have stayed on their focus when they went into the workforce . To get back out , you're saying to college .

Katie Hershberger 1:05:46

But it's also a lot harder to get into colleges if you take that gap year before being accepted anywhere . Colleges tend to like to get you right out of high school , or they like to get you right away , and then you can choose to take a gap year by deferring your admission . But if you wait until you've been through the workforce a few years , it's a lot more difficult why do you think that is ?

Katie Hershberger 1:06:09

um . Well , it's more difficult to get the resources you need , and you've been out of high school long enough that maybe you forget how to really write um like a good essay that's really appealing to a reader , or you could forget key components that would be really important for your placement in certain classes I also can tell you that the longer you're out of school , I think you get out of the routine of it , yeah , and because when you're 18 you've done it your whole 12 years or whatever right , so it's like you just get up , you go to school , you do homework .

Tammy Hershberger 1:06:44

I've been out so long now . There is some kid . I remember when I was in college there was a woman who's like she seemed old probably 40s then I don't know but she was so damn excited to go back to school . She was a mom , but most people like me . I would not want to go back . I mean , I'll do online learning , I've done coaching and college stuff , but I don't want to go to college with 18-year-old kids and deal with that and then sit in a classroom every day and make no paycheck . It's just different . I don't want to have homework because even when I did it for my coaching programs , I'm like this sucks , but I'll do it . It's a very different mindset . You just come right out of high school because you're just used to it .

John Hershberger 1:07:17

To my opinion . You just answered the question .

Tammy Hershberger 1:07:19

Okay , what was it why ?

John Hershberger 1:07:20

it's harder to go to college after you have a skip year .

Tammy Hershberger 1:07:24

What was ?

John Hershberger 1:07:24

it Because the college is too concerned about that . They would not get their finances Because if you skip a year there's a higher chance that you will never go to college , which then , in return to college , will make it harder for people to do that because there'd be too many people that would never show up in college . So if they make it more hard for you to get your get into college , if you skip a year , then you're going to be more apt to make sure that you go into college right out of school , because now there's too high of a rate that you will never show up for college . And I mean the reality is college is a business .

John Hershberger 1:08:04

So they want as many clients as they can get .

Katie Hershberger 1:08:08

And I don't think it's necessarily the colleges that make it more difficult to get into after you choose to stay out of it for a while . What do you think of it ? Well , like I said , you're losing the experience you had . After 12 years , you , like you said , you get out of the routine of it . It just makes it more difficult to make college feel appealing once you lose that yeah , but the whole thing's a system yeah I agree with .

Tammy Hershberger 1:08:31

I agree with you I .

Tammy Hershberger 1:08:32

I think college should be nowhere near as expensive as it is absolutely right , because they make it so unaffordable . And even if you didn't not going backwards , but even if you didn't have free college , if you have affordable , realistic college that is not insane then it would not be so bad for regular parents to pay for their kids . Right , I agree , it's so overpriced to go to school , but that's the problem , because they just want to build bigger buildings . It is a business and unfortunately that's yeah where the government plays into that . They should be lowering the cost of school and and not just free . And then I'm still going to pay them 60 000 a year . You get those colleges to lower their price . If you really care about education , you would do that . Um , I don't know if you have a good answer for this or not , but how do you stay optimistic for the future ?

Katie Hershberger 1:09:18

I wouldn't say I'm optimistic about the future , Are you ? What's the other word , pessimistic ?

Tammy Hershberger 1:09:22

I'm just neutral . Neutral , yeah , you're kind of just open to see what it is . Yeah , you don't really seem like a kid that worries much .

Katie Hershberger 1:09:29

I don't .

Tammy Hershberger 1:09:30

Can I ask how I want advice ? How do I not worry Katie ?

Katie Hershberger 1:09:32

Well , when I was younger I had super bad anxiety . So for as long as I can remember , I can just tell myself to stop doing something most of the time if I really don't want to do it anymore . Does that would help with your anxiety ? Yeah , as I got older , I just told myself to stop . I don't I know that's not a normal thing , but I think it's really the

Coping With Anxiety and Future Goals

Katie Hershberger 1:09:52

answer .

Tammy Hershberger 1:09:52

I think that's the answer for anxiety . I don't .

John Hershberger 1:09:55

I do , do I don't think most people can view it from that standpoint well , and I understand that most people can't , but that is still the realities , because your , your worry , does not change the outcome . Yeah , so if you can actually tell yourself to stop , but I believe that that could work for a lot of people .

Katie Hershberger 1:10:16

If you're capable of doing that , absolutely go for it , but I think most of the people that are capable of doing that have already done that and the people that are left need the extra resources or the extra assistance with escaping .

Tammy Hershberger 1:10:30

That's education , because I'm going to tell you my own experience with that . So for me , uh , I didn't . I mean , I don't think I've ever heard like really for me I'm not saying generally , but for anxiety , for me I get in my head and I start freaking out and I think something bad's going to happen , I'm going to get sick or whatever it is . And I've noticed there was a time when I couldn't even . I was so deep in it I didn't know what to do and no one had really told me like just really breathe and focus and try to get your attention off of that thing . And so then I went on the medication because at that moment I needed that .

Tammy Hershberger 1:11:00

Eventually I learned that like , if I take my attention off to fear and I don't , because we , our minds , blow things up big right , bigger than they are . And so for an example , one time me and you were in Moab and we were getting on this little boat tour and it should have been just fine , and all of a sudden I started feeling scary excited . I was like anxious , I was like I'm gonna be trapped on this boat , and then my mind starts going the craziest places . What if I get sick ? I can't get off the boat . And I just started going and then all of a sudden I was like , okay , just remember , you're panicking , you're freaking out . There's no reason to panic , right ? Because I wasn't deep in it , I was . It was kind of a coming on thing , and so so I started reminding myself , like you're going to be fine . I just sat there . I was like you're going to be fine , get your attention off of it , you're going to be fine . So then I tried to find something to distract myself from it . So I wasn't just thinking about like you're going to get sick and this is going to happen , you're going to be trapped on this boat . And finally I got myself calmed down and I was okay . And so far in it , you don't even know how to help yourself . Depression is a whole nother mess that has nothing to do with this . So I think sometimes , if you can , you know , get a good therapist or whatever that reminds you that , like when you're on the outskirts of anxiety and not the deepest part of it , getting your attention off of it it's the same thing like just worrying , worrying is meditating on the bad side of it , right , I'm spending time thinking about how my kid's gonna get hurt or my business is gonna fail .

Tammy Hershberger 1:12:17

I'd experience this sometimes with the business . At the beginning it was like financially scary and I would meditate almost like what's the budget ? How am I gonna pay this , how am I gonna pay this ? And I'd go over 5,000 things in my head of how can I make the money up here . And when I finally realized , like , don't put my focus on that , just go to work , show up , trust it's gonna work , it would work . Does that make sense , katie ? Kind of what you're saying , getting your attention off of it . Yeah , yeah , um , and you don't have to answer this question . But when did you notice you started having anxiety ? Or how did you know it was anxiety ?

Katie Hershberger 1:12:50

seventh grade . I just couldn't get myself to do things , so yours was more of a debilitating .

Tammy Hershberger 1:12:57

Is that the word ? Yeah like , like for me , I couldn't leave the house . I was scared yeah , like , I am not a person that's afraid to leave the house , and do you remember it being for me ? It was this emotional . I don't even know why I was scared to leave . I was so like something terrible was going to happen . If I leave the house , in my mind is what happened . Was it like that for you , or it ?

Tammy Hershberger 1:13:14

was more , so I just struggled socially like scared to like interact with people , or , yeah , afraid . Yeah , can I ask you how you got over it eventually ? If you don't mind sharing , I just stopped caring about other people's opinion .

Tammy Hershberger 1:13:28

Basically , I guess , was that your way to just force yourself out of the house , or did someone talk to you about that ? No , and did your mom recognize that or no ? No , yeah , so I think that's the thing . Did that kind of come out of nowhere ? Was it when you changed ? If you don't want to talk about it , that's fine , but did you change schools ? And that's what caused it ? I changed schools , but I don't know if that's I mean like I didn't know anybody .

Tammy Hershberger 1:13:51

Yeah , so that probably made it worse . Yeah , because it is interesting how it just kind of comes out of nowhere . Because I mean , I was I don't even know 25 maybe when I had my first anxiety attack and my grandmother used to deal with it really bad . And you were talking about the empathy . I still today remember , like my uncles and my nephews would or not my nephews , my cousins , they would for my grandmother , the therapist that she dealt with , she'd have her color and we didn't have adult coloring books so she would do kids coloring books and when she'd be worrying at night and then she'd write something how she was feeling . And it sounds a little crazy , but I'm like that's what helped her . They would just make fun of it like crazy and she's crazy . And and my grandma was the best , I loved her to pieces . She was like a second mom to me .

Tammy Hershberger 1:14:32

But I'm like that's the empathy , like I would feel bad for . I'm like it's you're scary and you don't know how to react and you're scared and you don't know what to do , and then she'd have panic attacks to go with it so she couldn't breathe and I think , just remembering that , like it's not a joke and people , it's hard and someone needs to love you enough like my my boss did to like force me to go get some pills at the time and I'm not saying that's the only way to do it , but at that moment that got me to leave the house , that got me feeling okay enough to like go to work and I wasn't so freaked out . And for you , thankfully , you were able to do it on your own . That's , that's awesome . Do you think any of that will come back in the future for you when you go to college ?

Tammy Hershberger 1:15:10

I hope not . Yeah , but you sound like you have a plan of how to deal with it if it happens .

Tammy Hershberger 1:15:15

I guess , yeah , because sometimes I even experience . If I'm going to a big group of people or a party or whatever , sometimes I don't want to go because I'm like I don't want to deal with all these people . It's scary , it's anxious , I'll get anxiety about it and I just have to remind myself , like , don't focus on it , you can leave if you have to . John's lucky , he's never dealt with that , right ? Okay , you're talking so much , you're losing your voice over there , john . Um , uh , what else do I have here ? Last question um , how do you envision the future of work and education ?

Katie Hershberger 1:15:50

I mean , there's a certain way that I want it to go , but that doesn't mean it's going to go that way . What's that look like ?

Work-Life Balance and Shorter Hours

Katie Hershberger 1:15:56

I believe in shorter work weeks . I believe in shorter work days , especially because , at least of course , I don't know much about the laborer side , but I do know about jobs that require I don't know how to like white collar jobs I guess I know more about than blue collar jobs , which I don't like that descriptor , but it's the only way I can think to describe it . Sure , but there have been studies that show that shorter work days actually provide better innovation , better thinking and more work actually gets done , and I believe that higher pay can especially help with that .

Katie Hershberger 1:16:37

I believe almost all jobs deserve higher pay than they currently have and I think that there should be benefits brought back , because a lot of modern jobs don't have the benefits that jobs used to have .

Tammy Hershberger 1:16:51

Okay , so can I ask you on the hours thing , because I agree with shorter work weeks , what kind of hours are they suggesting for like daytime ?

Katie Hershberger 1:16:58

Um , I don't remember the exact number , but I do know that eight hours is too much . It's there's no reason , Cause , especially with like office workers , they can't even find enough work to last the eight hours . What are they ? What's the point of them being there ? Just give them the salary that they would get and let them leave .

Tammy Hershberger 1:17:16

I want John's opinion on the blue collar side , because I'm the white collar , I'm the office . I agree with you on that . So sales is a little tricky because if we have our customers expecting us to be there Monday through Friday , they want you there . I do think people , if we would , as a society , change that , that we would adapt right Office side . So from my own mental health , I've not been able to introduce this to my office yet because of the sales side .

Tammy Hershberger 1:17:37

But for myself even I committed to a four day work week . So I work Monday through Thursday . Now and what happens ? There's ?

Tammy Hershberger 1:17:44

There's a cool term or phrase but I can't remember . It's like a Murphy's law or something like that . But there's one that like , if you allow time to take up that much space , it will . So I would work five days , eight hours will . So I would work five days , eight hours and I would do the same amount of work . When I committed to four days a week same eight hours I could get the same stuff done in four days because I knew I only had four days to get it done .

Tammy Hershberger 1:18:06

So you can condense like you're saying . You can condense the work , get more done and then have that extra day , which is not my mental health day , that's my day because I'm a wife . Wife I have to take care of a home , I have to get groceries , I have to pay bills , whatever I can go get a massage or whatever helps me mentally . So I and I think italy or somewhere like that , does four-day work weeks . I'm pretty sure , I guarantee I think it's italy , they are very big about four days and taking time off . What's your thought on the blue collar side , john ?

John Hershberger 1:18:35

well what we do . I don't .

Tammy Hershberger 1:18:37

I don't see how it would be beneficial for us , because I don't think you condense down into four days what we need to get done , like with building you're saying do you think , health-wise though , it would be better for everybody if , if the whole and obviously it doesn't work of one company does it , but if society would , okay , we're all just doing four-day work weeks , I mean there's schools that do it that one we keep driving by over there . They do Monday through Thursday .

Katie Hershberger 1:19:03

But they didn't start doing that because of the workers . Well , they did it because they didn't have enough workers . They don't do it to actually benefit the people . They're doing it out of necessity because they don't have enough laborers for that .

Tammy Hershberger 1:19:15

Yeah , so do you think , john as a whole , if everybody would do that and it was normal , so customers didn't expect us to be here on Friday or whatever day do you think that would be beneficial , where our guys could spend more time with their families doing their own ?

John Hershberger 1:19:32

I mean , I think of Jonas how he's He'll just go home and work .

Tammy Hershberger 1:19:34

But that's what still has to happen . I He'll just go home and work , but that's what still has to happen . I mean he can put in 40 hours here .

John Hershberger 1:19:40

He still has a home to take care of kids , house to fix or whatever ? Yeah , but he's a workaholic so it wouldn't matter . I mean if we give him six days a week off , he'd still work seven .

Katie Hershberger 1:19:50

Even then , that's his choice at that point .

John Hershberger 1:19:53

He chooses to do that . When you choose , choose your job , you choose to work too , and what you're going to do ?

Katie Hershberger 1:19:58

a lot of the times .

Katie Hershberger 1:19:59

You don't really have much options , though , because you need to pay for things well , I know that , but uh , right now there's actually a lot of options there's a lot of jobs that claim they're hiring , but it's been a very big problem for younger people to actually get hired at those jobs because a lot of the time there's some weird connotation that this generation is a bunch of lazy people or they won't do their job . But that's just not true . I see it in my day-to-day life , I see it with my peers and I see it online . I see plenty of people who are willing to do the work , they want to do the work , but nobody will actually give them a chance to .

Tammy Hershberger 1:20:39

I think there's definitely some generalizing there . I agree somewhat with you . I have experienced some kids , not necessarily 18 , but in the 20 to 24 , I went through a lot of them at the window business and they did not . They didn't want to . Again . That's not everybody , katie . They didn't want to show up . They would all on drugs . I couldn't get a single one to pass a drug test , or they'd show up and they'd half-ass the work or they'd lie to me .

Tammy Hershberger 1:20:59

So there is now , I will say , not even my generation , rich's generation . That dude is 60-some years old , he works . So I think there's some of that , but I think it's not everywhere . I think you can't generalize that . Like you said , not everybody's that way . So I think you have to take into account the people and what you know . Bring them on , try them out and they'll show you if they're going to do it . Yeah , I think for the balance of life and our mental health . I think we do . We're overworked . There's no balance , you know . And then again it affects . Think about that john we talked about earlier . If parents didn't have to work five days a week , they could go home and spend a day with their kids if they would do it . That's the problem well .

John Hershberger 1:21:38

I also think the two days that you get off you can make count better than what a lot of parents do yeah , I agree , yeah , which again , not everybody even gets that many days off . Some people have to work and I I'm not here saying that stuff , saying that I'd be good at it , because I don't know that I would be . Good at what .

John Hershberger 1:22:00

To go home and have the two days that I have of count , because you can get into your own thing and before you know it , the day is over and you didn't do nothing .

Tammy Hershberger 1:22:11

Well , again , it's that technology that I think is creeped in , because a friend of mine he has children and he told me one day like I don't think I should work more than a couple days a week , and I said why you need the money so well , because it makes me a bad dad . I said no , you still have weekends off . You're home at five every night . I said , sure , take an extra day here or there . But I said it is not a bad dad to go to work because you're providing for your family . Somebody has to work , but I think when you're home instead of you on your phone all night or watching tv and not paying any attention to your little kids , that is a difference . There's quality time . You don't need 15 hours of crap time . You could take two good hours or go out and play in the yard with them or whatever , and that , to me , is quality time , don't you think , katie ? Would you agree ?

John Hershberger 1:22:52

yeah , yeah I actually believe that quality is gonna outperform quantity , yeah , when it comes to that , because you can make memories with your children . Even if it's just a short amount of time , you can still make memories I mean , I think of our marriage .

Tammy Hershberger 1:23:11

I'm like we can go home for a weekend and be in the same house and be on phones and we don't talk to each other at all . It's like , well , that wasn't very quality . Or we could spend one saturday for two hours and go to a festival or walk around or go to a movie well , movies aren't great , you don't talk but dinner or whatever , where it's like I actually spent quality time looking at your face and talking to you and in whatever , versus the whole weekend . We were in the same house but we didn't talk to each other . Right , I think it's the same thing . So , okay . Last question , katie what do you think will be the biggest challenge for future generations in balancing the work and their life ?

Katie Hershberger 1:23:41

um , well , going in with that um generalization that younger people are lazy , yeah , I think a lot of the time , not being willing to overwork yourself is what's viewed as lazy . Um , people nowadays they value their work and life balance and they're not willing to constantly be putting in overtime , and that's viewed as being lazy rather than valuing yourself .

Tammy Hershberger 1:24:06

Yeah , I agree with you . Um , if you listen to my podcast , you hear me talk all the time . Burnout is very real , it happens , and I think my generation even , for some reason , because I grew up so poor I don't even know where I got that from , but I decided that if I work hard all the time , it improves who I am , and I've learned that I am not my work , that's not me . And so , like Katie said , just have a balanced life . Don't work is not everything . You have to work . Hopefully you can build a life where you don't have to starve , but you don't have to have the best of everything unless you can afford that , because then you're just taking away from your family . Okay , katie , do you have anything ?

John Hershberger 1:24:44

else dad . No , john , do you have anything else ? Yeah , don't try and outdo the joneses yeah , it's a fight that'll never .

Tammy Hershberger 1:24:49

It'll just be non-stop . It wears you out , okay , everyone ? Thank you very much for listening , katie , thanks for coming on , john , thank you , appreciate it , like , subscribe , share , help me promote . And thank you guys for listening . We'll see you next time . And remember in the world of business , every success story begins with a passionate dream and ends with a strategic billion-dollar handshake . Stay ambitious , stay innovative and keep making those strategic billion dollar handshake . Stay ambitious , stay innovative and keep making those deals that reshape tomorrow . Thank you all for tuning in and until next time , remember Proverbs 3.3 says let love and faithfulness never leave you . Bind them around your neck , write them on the tablet of your heart . That way you will win favor and a good name in the sight of God and man . And remember if you like what you heard today , click the follow button so you never miss an episode .