Hello everyone. Welcome to the Narcissism Decoder. I'm your host, Anthony Mazzella. In our previous episode, Celeste, a listener of the podcast, posed some insightful questions about why we often think in extremes. She kindly agreed to join us again so we can continue to respond to her questions and apply a theory on splitting to a case she started to present. Unfortunately, there were technical problems with the microphone during the recording, so I'm not able to bring that recording to you. While it’s still fresh in my mind, I wanted to share segments of that conversation. As soon as we can get her back on the show, we'll flesh out the details of her case.

If you have not yet listened to that prior episode, we left off thinking about why someone may have a hard time accepting a soothing, comforting, and supportive voice. Another way to think about this is if you or someone you know has a hard time accepting gifts or sitting down for a nice meal. This could be someone who enjoys a movie but then complains about the price, in essence, spoiling the good experience.

In the case we were discussing, we talked about a man who grew up with a very critical and demanding grandmother. His mother, who also lived in the home, was described as more supportive and forgiving, encouraging his artistic side, while the grandmother was critical of him pursuing what she felt would not be a lucrative career. The question was about why he was so critical and hard on himself and why he could not identify with the comforting, encouraging voice of his mother.

Here are a few different ways one can conceptualize this:

First, if you allow someone or something to seep in and leave you with a good feeling, you assign some degree of importance to them. This entails the possibility of becoming dependent on their helpful support. But you can't depend on that—why not? The question continues to unravel.

Second, if you think about the structure of narcissism, self-idealization plays a central role in their thinking. Narcissists believe they have everything of value. This belief helps bolster their self-esteem. Anything valuable that comes from outside of themselves threatens their self-esteem because they rely on self-idealization. Therefore, anything that doesn't originate from them must be disregarded or ignored to protect their fragile self-esteem. They believe they possess all that is good and right, which creates a "stone wall of indifference" where nothing from the outside can penetrate their defenses.

For example, if you suggest something to them, they may dismiss it and later share a "great solution" to the problem that was actually your suggestion, without acknowledging that it came from you. This stone wall of indifference is characteristic of this personality structure.

Let me put this differently: Contact with help is experienced as weakening the person’s narcissistic, omnipotent superiority and exposing them to feelings they want to avoid. These feelings might include envy, which is painful, or shame. I recently did a brief episode on shame, so stay tuned for that if you'd like to explore it further.

Third, if someone feels rejected or invalidated by their caregivers, they may internalize these negative messages and come to believe they are not valuable or worthy of love.

Fourth, good experiences challenge identification with a depressive, angry, or critical voice. In this case, the identification is with the grandmother’s critical voice.

Now, you may be wondering, what are some of the techniques or tools for treatment or intervention in this case? For practitioners listening, my answer often involves inquisitive questions in the early phases of treatment or relationships. For example, you might ask, “I wonder why you can’t allow yourself to want it?”—whether that’s a movie or any other good experience.

In the example with the man who has positive experiences at school but becomes negative and self-critical at home, we might wonder why he can't allow the good experience at school to stay with him. Why does it get split off? It's possible that being at school stirred up painful feelings—perhaps seeing classmates or friends together made him want connection, but he didn’t allow himself to feel that longing.

The intervention is to help someone become more curious about why they can't allow themselves to enjoy a good experience. Why can't they sit with the good experience of a movie, for example, instead of destroying it by finding a way to criticize it? The goal is to facilitate a more inquisitive state of mind.

In terms of further intervention, if someone consistently splits off or destroys anything of value, getting them into a more regulated state of mind is the first order of business. Once they're calmer, I might say, “In my view, you feel like a loser because this is how you need to see it. I think you see or need to see it this way because... why?” This helps open a dialogue where they can begin to reflect on their self-criticisms.

But why would someone hold on to this image of themselves as worthless? As painful as it is, it can feel safe. This self-critical voice, while seemingly harmful, protects them. It keeps them from having to depend on anyone, protecting their self-esteem. Not accepting help or support keeps them from feeling vulnerable.

If they accept something of value, it challenges their omnipotent self-image, which is the bedrock of their self-worth. To acknowledge that they need others would imply that they are not perfect and self-sufficient.

The techniques involve continually raising these kinds of questions: “I wonder why you would hold on to this image of yourself as worthless? Why is it so important to never let this go?” Helping them reflect on these questions allows them to begin thinking about their behaviors and self-perceptions.

Let me give a simple example: imagine a person at work who is up for a promotion. They express interest but then do nothing to pursue it, even when their boss asks them to submit their updated resume. When you ask them why, they might say, “I would be a different person.” Instead of trying to convince them otherwise, you might say, “What comes to mind about being a different person? What do you imagine that would be like?” They might respond, “I wouldn’t be a loser.” When you dig deeper, they might reveal, “My father always called me a loser.”

This is an identification with a critical voice—in Celeste's case, it was the grandmother; in this example, it’s the father. These negative self-images become deeply ingrained. When they receive praise or encouragement, they distrust it, fearing it challenges their established self-concept.

This process is known as a "psychic retreat," where they escape into a familiar world where they are “bad,” “stupid,” or “worthless.” As paradoxical as it seems, this conviction offers them a sense of security because it maintains the status quo. It’s a secure identity, even if it’s a negative one, because they know who they are in this narrative.

The goal is to help this kind of person become increasingly aware of their inner psychic reality. The more they can own their own longings for connection and growth, the more integrated they can become. Addressing these unconscious thoughts and feelings facilitates deeper therapeutic work by helping them integrate parts of themselves that have been split off.

For example, the person who didn't pursue the job opportunity did have a desire for something better—they threw their hat in the ring. But that desire gets split off, leading them back to feeling worthless. If you can help them see this split, it can open a new path for reflection.

Remember, this kind of work takes time. When people start to let down their guard, they may quickly revert to self-sabotage or destructive behaviors. The key is to maintain a supportive but curious stance and to keep exploring the reasons behind their resistance to accepting something good.

If you have any questions or comments on the difficulty of accepting something of value, I encourage you to reach out. There's much more to explore here, and I'd be happy to dive deeper in future episodes or provide further resources.

I also have supporting resources available, including a soon-to-be-released continuing education seminar where I go into more detail on these topics. You can access these resources through my website, which is linked below. Until next time, engage your mind, not your fear of accepting something positive. Bye for now.

Disclaimer: The Narcissism Decoder podcast is provided for general information purposes only. The content presented in this podcast is not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure any psychological condition related to narcissism. The content should not be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. For specific advice pertaining to narcissism or any other psychological condition, you can reach me directly. I am an experienced mental health practitioner and am always open to new patients or consultations