Dr. Mazzella (00:01.108):
If you share a creative idea, your partner might believe they inspired it, internalizing the credit as if it originated from them. In essence, they take credit for your success. The main point, and I want to remind you, is that in these narcissistic relationships, all these behaviors and demands are an unconscious attempt to feel less deficient or inferior—and perhaps they are also a reflection of malicious intent.

Dr. Mazzella (00:50.51):
Hello everyone. Welcome to The Narcissism Decoder. I'm your host, Dr. Anthony Mazzella. In today's episode, I want to talk to you about what it may feel like to be in a relationship with a narcissist. This topic has been on my mind recently because I was preparing to present a paper on narcissism, and earlier that morning, I decided to squeeze in a quick workout at the gym just to clear my head and get ready for the big presentation.

When I walked into the gym, an acquaintance recognized me and came over. Knowing I'm a competitive cyclist, he immediately launched into a story about bike racing. At first, it sounded like a mutual interest, so I politely listened. But as he continued, the story shifted to being all about him—who he knew, how he used to ride, the routes he took, the miles he logged, and how he always outperformed a friend he described as weaker. Meanwhile, time was ticking, and I was becoming increasingly restless. Normally, I'll chat between sets, balancing conversation with my workout, but this time I hadn't even started. I glanced at the clock, feeling the tension between the pressure of my upcoming presentation and the guilt of wanting to cut the “conversation”—and yes, put that in air quotes—short. This wasn't really a conversation. There was no room for me in this exchange. No back and forth, no mutual engagement. I was just a silent witness to his monologue. It wasn't merely a lack of interest; it felt like a complete disregard for my existence.

Patients often describe feeling deflated, exhausted, and profoundly sad in these situations. They speak of being ignored, uncared for, and made to feel unimportant, controlled, and emotionally drained. These are just some common feelings when dealing with someone like this. What I'm trying to capture here is something many of you already know—feeling confused, frustrated, alone, or depressed.

Dr. Mazzella (03:14.996):
These are well-documented feelings in narcissistic relationships. But I want to go a little deeper and look at these experiences from a psychodynamic perspective to help you understand what's happening beneath the surface, so you're in a better position to manage these kinds of interactions. In other words, understanding these painful emotions is a good first step. But... have you ever wondered why individuals like my gym acquaintance are so persistent in their need to dominate, not just the conversation, but the other person as well?

Dr. Mazzella (04:02.656):
In my review of the literature, something struck me, and I want to focus on this point. I read that the narcissist is so focused on themselves that they cannot really—and I quote—see their partner as, and this is the most important piece, a separate person. What does this mean, and what does it look like? How does it become so crucial for them not to see you as separate? In a seminal paper I recently discussed in my course on narcissism, the question was raised: why must the narcissist defend against any recognition of separateness?

Dr. Mazzella (04:51.736):
To answer this, we must first understand that when one or both partners in a relationship struggle with narcissistic issues, they enter what renowned psychoanalyst Herbert Rosenfeld describes as a narcissistic object relationship.

Dr. Mazzella (05:12.94):
This concept, although complex, refers to a connection where one or both partners struggle to see the other as a separate, autonomous person. In such a relationship, defenses against recognizing separateness between oneself and the partner play a predominant role. Rosenfeld describes how this defense manifests in narcissistic relationships where the person fails to fully recognize or accept the separateness and autonomy of others. The narcissist experiences a deep need to merge with others to maintain an illusion of wholeness and omnipotence. Recognizing the separateness and autonomy of others threatens them, particularly if they see qualities in the other person that they envy or lack—like being able to give freely, enjoy relationships, or feel comfortable being vulnerable.

Painful feelings arise when they see these qualities, and these feelings must be wiped away. So, what better way to rid oneself of them than by not recognizing any difference? Now, you might wonder, what does this look like in real life?

Imagine a couple where the husband values going to bed early, waking up at dawn, and avoiding late-night TV. You could plug in any similar scenario where one partner values something—say, smoking weed and playing video games. The main point is that one partner values something, and the other has a different set of values. In this example, the husband values early mornings, while his wife enjoys staying up late and sleeping in. This difference frustrates him, and he starts asking her why she doesn’t wake up early, presenting how nice it would be if she woke up with him and, while he worked, she made breakfast for him and the kids.

Having this wish is fine, but once he starts pressuring her to change her sleep schedule, he is no longer managing it symbolically. It’s no longer just a wish in his mind or fantasy. Instead, he begins concretely acting on his wish, trying to control his partner and erase any sense of her separate identity and preferences—just like what happened to me.

Dr. Mazzella (08:37.048):
To borrow from psychoanalytic theory, we call this the object being omnipotently incorporated.

I know that this is a complicated concept, so let me break it down. This concept refers to a type of connection where one or both partners struggle to see the other as a separate, autonomous person. In such a relationship, defenses against recognizing separateness between oneself and the partner play a predominant role. In Rosenfeld's theory, When he talks about defenses against recognizing separateness between the self and others, he's referring to a deep-rooted difficulty or even refusal to acknowledge the distinction between oneself and others. This concept is crucial in understanding certain forms of narcissistic relationships, where the person fails to fully recognize or accept the separateness and autonomy of other people. The narcissist experiences a deep need to merge.

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Dr. Mazzella (17:33.302)
They will feel the envy as long as you represent the qualities they desire but cannot have. They will continue to project their inadequacies onto you and attempt to possess and diminish the very things they envy. This cycle is deeply ingrained in the narcissistic dynamic and is nearly impossible to change without significant, sustained psychodynamic work.

When you try to assert your boundaries, they might subtly or overtly retaliate, often punishing you for breaking their illusion of control. For instance, if you succeed at work or develop close friendships, these victories might be undermined or dismissed by the narcissist. Your independence and success threaten their sense of dominance. Rather than sharing in your joy, they may belittle or sabotage you to restore their feeling of superiority.

Dr. Mazzella (18:45.302)
The concept of omnipotent incorporation often plays out in a variety of relationship dynamics. It’s particularly prevalent in romantic relationships, but can also be seen in friendships, families, and even workplace environments. Imagine a workplace where a supervisor takes credit for the accomplishments of an employee, not allowing the employee's contributions to stand on their own. The same mechanism is at work here.

This mechanism, however, goes beyond just a need for control. At a deeper level, the narcissist’s identity is so fragile that any acknowledgment of your separate achievements or qualities feels like a loss to them. They don’t simply want admiration; they want to subsume and control anything that could threaten their sense of self, including your individuality.

Dr. Mazzella (20:12.302)
So, what can you do if you find yourself in one of these dynamics? Recognizing the pattern is the first step. Once you understand the depth of the narcissistic need to dominate, it becomes easier to set boundaries with clarity and without expecting them to change. Recognize, too, that attempts to explain or reason with the narcissist will likely fall on deaf ears. They are too absorbed in maintaining their version of reality.

When they try to monopolize your time or control your choices, assertively maintaining your boundaries can be both freeing and empowering. At the same time, it’s vital to manage your expectations. Narcissists often lack the capacity for genuine empathy and reciprocity, so waiting for them to validate your feelings or respect your boundaries can lead to frustration.

Dr. Mazzella (21:34.302)
From a psychodynamic perspective, the defenses used by narcissists are deeply rooted in early developmental traumas or wounds. These defenses operate on an unconscious level, so much of what they do is not even fully understood by them. Trying to change or confront them directly is, in many cases, ineffective and can lead to escalated conflict.

What I encourage you to do is focus on what you can control: your own responses, boundaries, and sense of self. Surround yourself with supportive people who respect your autonomy and encourage your growth. It’s also helpful to consider professional support, especially if the narcissistic dynamic has significantly impacted your sense of self or overall well-being.

Dr. Mazzella (22:51.302)
In closing, remember that while narcissistic relationships can be deeply draining, they can also teach you a lot about your own boundaries and self-worth. Recognizing the patterns, setting limits, and focusing on your own needs are crucial steps to reclaiming your autonomy and mental health.