Ep 10. Why, when, and how to choose a leadership group for your team

Traditionally, the best player on the team was the captain. But that's not necessarily the best approach for choosing your leadership group. In this episode, David and Susan talk about what jobs to give to captains and how to coach them to be leaders. Our guest, James Roxborough, shares his method for choosing captains, which includes a questionnaire.

The items in Coach James's questionnaire:
1. In your opinion, who from this group is the best at ‘leading by example’ (name up to 3  individuals)?
2. In your opinion, who from this group is the best at ‘being a vocal leader’ (name up to 3  individuals)?
3. In your opinion, who from this group is the best at ‘holding people accountable’ (name  up to 3 individuals)?
4. In your opinion, who from this group is the best at ‘cheerleader’ (name up to 3  individuals)?
5. In your opinion, who would you trust communicating with coaching staff on team issues  (name up to 3 individuals)?
6. In your opinion, who would you trust delivering messages from the coaching staff (name  up to 3 individuals)?
7. If you had an issue, in relation to the team or team environment, who is the one person  on the team, you trust to go to, to talk to or for support?
8.  If you had an issue outside the team, with your family, personal life etc, who is the one  person on the team, you trust to go to, to talk to or for support?

Coaching Call is a question show about coaching grassroots hockey.  We believe in using sport to make players better people on and off the ice. Your hosts are David Trombley, a coach with 30 years of experience at all levels and ages, and Susan Sim, a new house league coach. Submit your questions at http://newcoach.ca/ or in the comments.

The vidcast is available on YouTube. 

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:19 Choose the best player
• 2:38 Choose the best leader
• 3:20 Every players can be a leader
• 5:12 No rotating captaincy
• 7:42 Leadership in 9-12 year olds
• 9:41 Leadership in 13-15 year olds
• 10:55 Leadership in 16+ year odls
• 12:14 Leadership in adult players
• 15:50 Guest: Coach James Roxborough
• 16:46 The leadership group
• 18:16 Gathering intel
• 19:06 Four characteristics for captains
• 21:19 Not all teams need a captain
• 23:30 When in the season do you choose a captain
• 26:29 Questionnaire for players
• 28:52 Parent and the captaincy
• 30:00 Coaching leadership traits
• 35:05 Sign off

Transcript

​Susan: Welcome to Coaching Call, our weekly podcast, where we answer your questions about coaching hockey. More than skills and drills, we coach for connection and character on and off the ice. Good morning, David. How are you?

David: Very well, Susan. Good morning. It's been a great day so far. Even though that the rain's outside, it's still nice to actually walk the dog.

Susan: Oh, that's great. So Coach Dave, I've been thinking about captains and assistant captains on my select team. Now we don't have captains in house league. We don't really need them. It's, not a high stakes activity, but the people who made the uniforms gave me these C's and A's that we can iron on the jerseys and it's How do I figure out who to make captains? I don't really know what we're looking for. So I know in like a professional sports league the captain is like the relationship between the players and management. So he advocates or she advocates for the players to the managers, but I don't think we're that's what we're looking for here.

David: No, not at all. 

I know dating back to when I played hockey, it was always the best player on the hockey team. the best player on the hockey team pretty much got the C, the next two best players got the A and the A. Usually it's one captain, two assistants. There are some players that never wanted to be captain.

 They didn't want that,attention drawn to them. And other players wanted that attention because they felt significant. It made them feel important. It made them feel like, you know what, I'm a big part of this hockey team and I want to show everyone that we're in that seat.

Everyone on the other team and whatever tournament we play in know I am the best player on this hockey team. Growing up, you know what, that was one way to pick that captain. But is it the right way to pick the captain, Susan?

Susan: To me, it's not. Because they might not, for example, want the attention. They may not have the personality to be that kind of leader. And also it establishes a kind of hierarchy of skills that I'm not sure is healthy because we're trying to encourage growth, right? We're trying to encourage learning.

And once you put those letters on, it's okay, this is best, this is second best, this is third best. I think it's more fluid than that.

David: Absolutely. And you know what? What we've learned? 

We've learned a lot that, hockey is about leadership and what we want to teach these kids that, yeah, leadership, maybe the best player on the team should wear the captain. Maybe they're the hardest working during practice. Maybe they're the hardest working doing extra practice.

Maybe they're encouraging in the dressing room to their players, maybe they're just that type of leader. So really what we're looking for is leadership skills. Would you agree with that, Susan?

Susan: I think so. yes, I want my captain to be a leader, but what does that mean? in this context? Is it what is reasonable for me to ask for or expect? I've been in business for many years, and I'm not used to having kids as leaders.

David: How many kids are real leaders at such a young age, whether it's 9, 12, 15, whatever. We have to start the process at some time to start teaching them. Maybe that's what we are as coaches. We have to learn, what are we looking for in a leader on a hockey team? And then how do we help these young players grow into becoming leaders?

Even if you don't wear the C, which I think is very important.

Susan: Last week we talked about, feeling like you're part of something, even though you're on the fourth line, for example,

David: Right, right.

Susan: And we don't want to keep reinforcing this in a negative way. We want everyone to feel part of it.

David: The last thing you want to do is that you're in the dressing room, passing out the C and the two A's, and you make three people feel amazing, and you make everyone else feel not amazing. Or maybe not everyone, but maybe some. It could be a group of four others that wanted to wear that letter on their jersey.

Now they don't feel any good. And, right?

Susan: It can be a really painful experience. and this is kids sports. We're supposed to be having fun and I don't want that. And that's part of the reason I'm a little bit nervous.

David: So maybe there's a better plan. Maybe there's a better strategy on how to teach all the kids in the dressing room that they're all leaders in their special way. And then what are we looking for on our team to be our leader? We do have these letters and whether you get a letter or don't get a letter.

Everyone has leadership qualities and maybe we need to bring that out and tell them, you know what, this is the way it works, but, have some growth, have some conversation and have them maybe change the meaning on whether they get a letter or don't get a letter.

Susan: Let's get very nuts and bolts here.

David: Yes, please.

Susan: Is it reasonable to have a rotating captaincy?

David: No,

Susan: Okay.

David: no. That's just my personal opinion. 

Susan: Say some more. 

David: No. I don't want to rotate captains. To me, that's just trying to keep the tears off the eyes, as we're going through. I think we still need to teach everyone, what it becomes to wear one of these letters. It's very quite special.

Here's a question, Susan. If you really don't have a captain on your team?

Susan: Mmm.

David: Do you still have to pick someone?

Susan: I personally would be totally okay not picking one,If you don't have a good candidate, if nobody has the desire, we're all in this together. I love the idea of we're all equals. so I'm a little bit more comfortable with that than picking a captain.

David: Maybe if you don't have a true captain, we have all these quiet individuals, we'll just put it that way. We can start saying today, you're the captain. This is how you're going to be a captain today for the team.

And maybe it's a start of creating captaincy or just give them maybe a new identity for that one day and how it feels.

Susan: One of the reasons I was interested in a rotating captaincy, because if teaching someone leadership is a good thing, then why wouldn't I teach leadership to as many kids who want to learn it as possible, right? As opposed to the three that we're going to pick.

But what you're suggesting here is actually a really nice middle road.

David: However, if you do have a true captain, a true leader, yes, they should, and everyone on that team is going to know. Everyone knows who the big dog is. And they just, yeah, they should be the captain. However, if there's no clear cut, then everyone knows that too.

Susan: Kids know. Kids are smart. They are. we've been playing together six weeks or something like that. I think they already have their early favorites, right? They have people that they trust to be captain.

David: Even on Darcy's team, we can start to see some leadership qualities in individuals, and they don't even know they have it, but it's just who they are, just who they are. But I think it's important to teach all. I don't want to wait till someone's 24 years old to figure this thing out.

Susan: How do we coach kids in terms of leadership? We're talking a wide range of ages here and then we should, talk about like captains in adult leagues as well. What age do you start picking captains?

David: Nine. Nine is, the start of, I used to call, minor atom, or that's the start of triple A hockey for boys. I think you just start there, and you communicate to the team there.

You have a list of, what makes a leader, what you're looking for, and you can have input from the team as well. You're just guiding, and every team will be a little bit different. As you get older, you get a lot better answers from the players, and maybe a little bit more deeper, which is great.

And you just keep working with them. They'll get it.

Susan: Okay. Starting at nine. 

Give me a scenario,you're going to go up to a kid and say, try this out for the day. What kinds of things would you say?

David: It could be very simple. I'm just gonna say we got a very quiet individual. And I would say, you know what? You're gonna be the captain today. All I want you to do is encourage your teammates. Every time you're, during a shift where you're changing lines, I want you to fist pump every player that comes off.

As you go and by them, just pump them. Say, go get them, go get them, go get them. Or, good shift, good shift, good shift. That might be all that they're capable of doing. I'm not expecting that player to come in and rally the troops and give a big speech and away they go. And, but yeah, just build small.

From there, it could be as simple as that. Get the team in a huddle by the goalie and you just go on three. One, two, three. Let's go team. And obviously we're always looking for the hardest worker, go out there and work hard, right?

So we can encourage them to do that too. So keep it simple and then at the end of the day, you were great. You're a great captain and maybe have the teammates say what did you like about Anthony's captain today? What did he do really well today? Oh fist pump me coming off the ice, make him feel good. 

Susan: I really like how that fits in with some of the stuff we're talking about,celebrating and positive reinforcement.

David: It's easy to find the bad, right? Easy to find, you went offside. Why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that? Find the good and, you'll keep finding more good.

Susan: Okay. Let's move on to a slightly older age group, say like to the 13 to 15. A one sentence characterization from my point of view of kids that age, they have bigger feelings, 

 and they're just got more emotionally going on. What kinds of instructions would you give or what kind of expectations would you have for captains at that age?

David: Maybe, before leaving the dressing room, they kind of huddle together. But we prepare that captain. Bring the team together and just tell them what you want them to do on the ice. It's really short and sweet. Guys, tonight we're going to be first on the puck.

We're going to go out there. We're going to work hard. Let's go get them. It's just as simple as that and go one, two, and they chant and away they go out.

Susan: Oh,

David: Yeah, you know what? And then they repeat that maybe by the net with the goalie. And remember what we talked about in the dress room. Let's bring it to the ice.

Now we're on the ice. Now we do it. Every shift. And away they go. You gotta help guide them. Just don't throw them in the fire. Think of something to say. You know what? Give them something to say. Give them something to say. So maybe 13 to 15 is about giving them a little bit of here, this is what you can talk about. 

as you get older, talk 16 and up, 18 and up junior, maybe by then if they've been coached well enough to be the captain, they'll come up with their own things to say to the team.

With the older age group, be like this. We got to protect our house. No one touches our goalie. This team here likes to run goalies. We're not going to allow it tonight. It could be as simple as that. But that's an older age group, where they have more experience of playing hockey.

They've been playing hockey for, seven, eight, nine years and at a higher level and they have some experience and they can bring it. 

Susan: You talked about the captain giving a little pep or, giving some instructions in the dressing room before going out. Now, currently the coaches do that. Would you have both do that or would you just delegate it to the captain?

David: Too much gets lost, right? I know that when coaches start talking about guys, we want to remember this and this. They've already forgot about that and that. The coaches can still coach from the bench. Coaches coach during practice time.

When it comes to the pep rally before going on the ice, leave it to the kids. One pep rally is good enough. The coach can say something at the bench, and that'll be his pep rally if you want to leave it that way. Simple is better. Simple is better. And, just let them go and play. 

Susan: The last age group we talk about is adults, like in your adult leagues. I've heard of beer leagues where the captains run the team. There's no manager, there's no, coach, right? You just show up and play. So what are the considerations for those situations?

David: You said it. The person who puts the team together, the person who collects the money. They've already become that leader. They're the one that's going to lead the charge. There might be someone else in the room that might say something. Bottom line, person who's collecting the money is pretty much your leader.

 Usually when it comes to adults like that, they don't care. we chit chat on the bench. Guys, we got to be stronger on the puck. Guys, we got to be better at coming back. Guys, we got to pick up the late man. Guys, we got to create more shots. whatever it is, right?

Susan: Yeah, we just chat with each other. And usually have certain guys that will chat more than others. That's fine. That's just the way they are. That was really good.

David: Susan, there is no magic bullet. This is what you do. Every team's a little different. I think what I was saying about rotating the captains or you pick, if you don't have a true leader, you just got to know your team. Sometimes, everyone knows who the captain is, even the kids. It's Andrew, it's going to be Andrew, right?

 Maybe you don't have real assistant captains, but

Susan: Mm hmm.

David: just guiding these kids, they all need to be guided and they all need to feel important. Letters shouldn't take away that they're not important. They're all important.

Susan: So have you ever been captain?

David: Me? Yes, I have. I've been captain.

Susan: Okay. what situations were you captain?

David: Just on hockey teams. You know what? several hockey teams, many hockey teams.

Susan: Many, what ages?

David: Most of them, all the way up.

Susan: All the way up? Okay. Are you being modest, Dave?

David: I think so.

Susan: Okay.

David: Trying to be.

Susan: So you've been captain a lot. And what was the experience like for you? Did you like being captain? 

David: Personally, you know what? I think it really filled my ego. That I wanted to be the best player on the team, even though I worked extremely hard to be the best player. And my drive was to be the best player in the league. And so to do that, I had to work my ass off during the practice and during the games. I was always pretty much a top point getter on all the teams that I played with. What we're talking about today, I really wish that we had coaches that talked about this back in my day, 40, 50 years ago where, this is what it means to be a captain. This is what you look for in the attributes to be a captain. I think it really would have helped me grown to be a better person, better captain. And if I wasn't chosen, you know what, it wouldn't have been any slight on me. I would have known that inside I was a leader in my own way to help the team.

Susan: I think we've just identified another opportunity for coaching. I mean, the coach is a busy job,

David: It's a busy job, right? That's why we want to delegate, right? 

Susan: So many little conversations to have, so many big conversations to have, so much to be aware of.

That's so true. What are we learning today that could have been applied yesterday? And yesterday, a decade, two decades ago to really help people grow even quicker and, become more of a stronger person, of an individual, and whether it's through hockey, the sport, that's our vehicle, but really that vehicle could be applied anywhere in life, like going to school, your first job, everything. So we're going to bring Coach James on to help us puzzle out choosing captains. 

James: My name is James Roxborough. I have been, lucky enough to be connected with Dave Trombley for, many years, working under his wing, at Hockey Extreme in a skills development, setting. I've been lucky enough over the past four or five years, almost half a decade, to take that skill base and branch it off into, actually coaching teams, in the minor hockey, world so both on the boys and the girls side and, 

It's been a blessing to have that opportunity to,coach minor hockey and get to know the ins and outs of some of the finer nuances of, how to organize a team, how to run a team from not just an on ice perspective, but obviously an off ice perspective and a management role.

Susan: Thanks for joining us today.

James: I'm very excited to be here. I'm always happy to chat hockey.

Susan: The topic of the day is how to choose captains. I've never chosen a captain before. Dave has been captain pretty much all his life. and I was wondering what your perspective is.

James: The leadership group is very much a focal point, for many coaches as they go into their starting phase of coaching. When you look at, the NHL, the professional leagues that now the PWHL. all of these teams have captains, they all have assistants. My biggest thing with captains and assistants and appointing those players positions is making sure that it's number one, the right decision for the team as a whole.

So I find that, not all teams need a designated leadership group, but it is important to follow a certain set of guidelines to figure out and understand as a coach, if it's something that's going to benefit your team. 

So what I try and follow year over year is to try and get a good sense of the landscape of what the players are thinking, what our group looks like in the room and how we can identify leaders as a cohesive unit. So both, myself and my coaching staff from an outside perspective, seeing the room in one light and the players, having their own viewpoint of how the dressing room interacts, works and operates.

And I think it's important to find, a meshing of those two things to identify is a leadership group something that I need at this time. I've had years where I definitely need captains and assistants, and I have very clear cut captains and assistants. I've had years where I haven't, and I think that it's important to first identify, is this a need or is this something that's maybe, a secondary, piece to your team? Or is it something that might even cause somerippling? 

The first thing that I do is gather information. So as I mentioned, my first piece of gathering information is my own assessments. I see the players on the ice, I see how they interact for the first portion of the season on the bench with each other, with their teammates, with the coaches. And that gives me and my coaching staff a good guideline of where we see some leadership. But you'd be shocked year over year, the players and the coaches sometimes see things very differently. And I think it's important when appointing a captain's assistants that, those two thoughts are merged together.

So what I try and do is I try and gather information from my players. And the best tool that I use for that is simply a questionnaire. We actually do it in person at the rink and all as a group, they don't have an opportunity to, nudge each other or, throw out,different ideas, bounce off each other.

It really has to be a personal experience and really all the questions that I asked are based on four main things. So the primary thing that everyone thinks about is, are they a role model? So do they lead by example? So we're looking for players that lead by example. 

Number two, do they communicate? So do they have an ability to communicate with their teammates? Do they have an ability to communicate with the coaches? Do they have an ability to merge those two worlds together? The coaches and the players and have those communications. So if the coach needs something to be delivered to the players, they can do that. And if the players have something that they need delivered to the coach, it's the same thing, right? And I think that's really important. 

The third one is, are they trustworthy? Do you trust them in a more personal way? Do you trust them with, small details of your life? These things show, someone that you trust their character and you trust that they can lead the team.

The fourth and the most important possibly one is are they supportive, I think there's a big difference between communication and being supportive. I think it's important for, your captains and your assistants to be truthful and honest and clear. But at the same time, they always need to be on your side and supportive and helping you as a, a teammate.

all of my questions, there's about, let's see here, eight of them. They all fall into some of those pillars. So some of the questions quite simply, who in the group do you think is best at leading by example? And I asked them to put down three names, up to three names.

We do the same thing for who do you think is the best at communicating? Who do you think is the best cheerleader on the team? these things that give us an insight on. where players see other players in their strengths. And I think what's important is that all players have some leadership quality and it's important to understand where their teammates see those leadership qualities in them.

So some of them are great vocal leaders. Some of them are more lead by example and a little bit quieter. And some of them are just great cheerleaders for the team or very supportive of their teammates. there's lots of different avenues that we look at.

Susan: I love how structured your answer is. there's a lot there to unpack. Okay. Let's go back to the beginning where you are deciding whether you need a leadership group or not. can you talk about that decision?

James: Sure. So I think, it's really important to get a sense of, do you have a clear cut leader? I think sometimes coaches jump to the conclusion that I need to put a letter on someone. At the end of the day, if you don't have a true purpose for a captain or an assistant, all they're there to do is to communicate between the ref and you.

That's at the very base level. if you have a clear cut idea of what you're looking for in a captain, now it expands to all the other stuff that we talked about and how they interact within the team. But that needs to be, first and foremost, clear from you as the coach to what you're expecting.

Now, if you don't feel like there's players in the room that exemplify those things, or you, or vice versa, you feel like there's eight or nine of them that probably exemplify those things. Do you need to put a letter on one of them or three of them when you have such a big group, then at that point you come into,I've had experiences with a little bit of strife within the room of, these players got captains and assistants and these players didn't and they were all worthy and they were all capable and it creates, obviously, a little bit of a ripple and in a team construct, when it's not necessary, you don't need to create ripples.

Susan: I'm going to dig a little bit. are there situations where you sayI really need, a leadership group because I don't know, I'm just going to make it up. There's not a lot of cohesion on the team or I'm having conflict.

James: Sure. So I think that would be if you identify that there's a needs assessment. So there's, we are having conflicts in the room. We are having issues. you could use a leadership group as a way to combat that. I think at the same time, on the other side of that coin, if you pick a leadership group, that's not trusted by the majority of the team, that's not respected by majority of the team to be true leaders and they see it differently, it can magnify that issue further.

So it is a very delicate process. I think it's something that a lot of coaches don't think about as much. but it is really important to understand when you're appointing 

leaders that it's going to be a net

benefit for not only the leaders on the team and yourself, but everybody on the team and the team as a whole.

Susan: So the next question is, at what point in the year do you choose your captain or leadership group?

James: Yeah, that's a great question. I think that, it's different for everybody. I'm in a bit of a unique situation where every year I have mostly a new roster and a new team. So I need some time to see things through.I like to look at a greater sample size. So for example, my team this year, we've been practicing together since training camp in late August.

We've played, already a tournament. We've played about 20 games or just shy of that, in total. We still don't have a clear cut leadership group that's been you know communicated to the team. We haven't gone through that process just yet. I typically look at, the November, December stage where we're getting towards the second half of the year to say, Hey, we've got a good sample size for me to look at, my assistant coaches to look at, and our team to look at within the room of all the things that we talked about.

So we can really make a very well educated decision and make sure that this is, something that's respected by everybody in the room and something that's going to benefit our team.

David: What's interesting is that, when I played hockey, The captain was always picked before the start of the season. And, you know what, James doesn't pick his until December, January, where the season's almost at the end, the tail end.

You know what,and I completely understand you want to get the sample size, but how much sample size do you really need, before picking a captain? Do you really need to wait till December to pick your captain, or could it be done a little bit sooner?

James: You know what? I think it can definitely be done a little bit sooner. I think that it's my personal preference that I like to wait. and, as I mentioned before, my reasoning is that, when I have a new roster, for example, this year, my team is comprised of three returning players out of 17.

it's a very new group and they're all coming from all different, teams, different areas. it's important to have the focus for me beyond building team cohesion, identifying who's stepping up in certain areas and giving it some time. Now, you could do it much quicker. Sometimes captains and assistants, jump out.

It really has to be a gut feeling thing. At the end of the day, I think, my piece of advice for any coach would be you can make your decision as early as you feel fit. As long as you feel fit that it's going to benefit the team and you're not doing it just to do it. Because sometimes when coaches just appoint to appoint someone, that's where you run into trouble.

If you truly feel in your heart of heart that you've done your due diligence to understand. you think you understand your room, you see the things that you want to see out of what you believe a captain assistant should be, then there's no issue in appointing early and appointing when you feel it's right time.

David: When the coaches do pick these captains and they pick them early, call it, like I said, before the start of the season or the first tournament, There's never any follow up. You know what, there was never any follow up to the other players in the dressing room.How do you guys feel or, is anyone going to talk to the coach? Why I wasn't picked as captain, small things like this. 

Susan: I'd like to ask you about the process a little bit. You've talked about your questionnaire. Do you build up to it? Do you talk about captaincy before you have that meeting with the questionnaire?

James: Yeah, so typically during the year, we have a meeting at the very beginning of the year and we go over team rules, team guidelines and an overall season structure and preview. And one of the things that I try and outline to my team very quickly is that we will be looking for leaders, but it doesn't necessarily mean that we will be appointing leaders.

So at about the same time in the year, so at about the November, early December stage, we will put out the questionnaire regardless, and the messaging when we put the questionnaire out is we'd like to gather this information, but having this information does not necessarily mean that we're going to be naming captains and assistants.

This is just part of our process that we're going through to, make sure we're doing our due diligence to find a leadership group and identify if the leadership group is going to be a benefit for us.

Susan: That's great. we hear over and over again from the guests on this podcast that first team meeting is super important. say you've arrived at the point where it's you've decided to choose a captain and you want to use this questionnaire. you talked about doing it in person, probably in the dressing room.

James: Do you show the questions ahead of time, or is it the first time that they see the questions in that meeting? It's the first time they see it. So there's a bit of shock value where I want their brain to be thinking and processing, in that immediate moment. the way it's structured and the way we pose the questions to say, pick three people that you think do this and do this do this.

It should be something that comes to your mind naturally, so if you're stewing on it and you have to think about it for a really long time, that's probably telltale that you're very unsure on if there's possibly anybody or a multitude of people that fit that category. I really like to make sure that the answers are.

immediate, reactive, genuine, and sincere.

Susan: do you hand out the questionnaire on paper or is it something that they use on their phone?

James: Yeah, so we hand it out on paper. I have it right here. we hand it out and we give them all their pens and we say, go sit down, don't talk to anybody. you've got however long, they take however long they need. We say about five minutes and let them get it done. we try and make it very quick.

 it's got to be reactive and, right from your mind to the paper.

Susan: Mmm

David: And parents. James is coaching a high level, girls hockey. They're young teenagers and then their next step will be into junior and then potential scholarship. these parents know that to get more looks of your player, wearing a letter to them is probably very important. But really, Coach James isn't about that. it's about creating leaders and leadership, which is more important. Developing a human, to be a better person, right? Not whether you get a scholarship or not, right?

Anyways, it's, lots of talk, lots of communication. Most of the season, we talk about that all the time. Got to communicate all the time. We had coach Gary on how his communication skills, with his parents. And he really doesn't have any issues because he's communicating with them all the time.

 Once the parent understands that the letter doesn't mean anything that the scouts don't look for, who's wearing the letter, that's who we're going to choose. 

James: That's the other balance with it is making your captains and assistants feel empowered by it and making everybody else feel like, Hey, it's not really that big a deal. You're still equal. it's true. It's a double edged sword of, Hey, you're awesome.

Hey, don't worry about it so much. it's not the, be all end all whether you are or aren't. 

Susan: Do you coach captains on how to be captains?

James: Sure. in the years that I have selected a leadership group, which is more often than not. I know I'm giving both sides and saying there's pros, there's cons. More often than not, it's a great idea. the years that I do have captains and assistants, we immediately have a meeting and we talk about, number one, why were they selected for these roles?

Because it's important, especially for, younger kids to have a good identification of, Why are they selected? What are the things that they do really well? What are the things that they can contribute and how is that going to help them, in this role? Because at the end of the day, being named a captain or being named an assistant captain comes with responsibility.

And it's important for them to know why they have assets and attributes that help them in those areas, but also to steer them on what your expectation is as a coach on how they can provide value for the team, for yourself and for their teammates.

David: Do you actually talk about leadership, with your team throughout the course of the whole year? Say just once a month, we just want to nip this or educate, do you educate your captains or the people in the room who potentially could be a captain, maybe not this year, James, but maybe in the future.

James: Absolutely. For me with the way my team is structured, I have two age cohorts. So I coach right now, a team that is comprised of 2009 born and 2010 born players, year over year, they graduate up and they graduate out. we talk a lot about leadership throughout the season, and a big part of that is educating them on the reality that the letter does not make you a leader or a non leader.

So there's not a divide between a leader and a non leader based on whether you have the letter on your jersey or not. In the questionnaire, the four areas that we think are important in all leaders, some people. have all four of those qualities. Some people only have one or four of those qualities, but I think it's important for all kids and all players to understand that in some way they provide leadership value for the team.

And I'm, extremely impressed year over year, how some of my players that are the younger age group graduated up to the older age group, and now they're my major players, and they always end up, taking another step and being more vocal,taking more ownership on the team in terms of leading by example, taking on more roles and responsibilities, and just watching them mature, and become leaders naturally by, just getting older.

 it's important for them to recognize that just because you're younger doesn't mean you're not a leader, if you have the qualities, and they have to know what those qualities are. And that's part of the education process. You in your own right are a leader on the team.

David: What a great answer. I think this is a great step for all coaches to follow. there's more responsibility than just putting a C and an A on these kids. it's a responsibility of teaching all the kids how to be a leader. They all have the capability of doing something, 

 It could be just helping some teammate who's not feeling good, or made a bad play and they're like, hey, cheer up, don't worry about it. That's the way hockey is. You make a mistake, learn, grow, move on. You don't have to have a C to say that. You just have to be a good teammate and that's being a leader in itself.

 It always has to be communicated and taught and talked about. And I think James is right on. 

Susan: hmm. Mm hmm. 

And that's why James came up with this great system. So you know what, it's from these experiences that you come up with something better. You just got to be aware of what's going on your hockey team and every team is different. It was so structured that even I could do it.

James: Yes. Yes. I appreciate that. I know there's a lot of information there and it's very easy for me to get off on a tangent. I think it's a great important subject to discuss for sure.

David: And you know what? Not only just picking captains and assistants, every team is different. Even when you're running your drills, every team is different on, what kind of format you want to use, what kind of offensive, what kind of defensive format, depending on what kind of players you have is what you have to work with and design your team to be the best they can be. Picking captain, assistants, no different. You're your assistant coaches, your drill, all that stuff. 

James: Yeah, there's a lot that goes into it, for sure. 

 But

David: hey, like you said, Susan, some players don't want to even have the attention, right? And other players like, please give it to me, I want it, It's about teaching all these kids how to be better leaders.

And for me, I probably would have been a better assistant captain because I just worked my ass off. I wasn't the big, yeah, yeah, yeah, man in the dressing room. We had other guys for that. 

To me, it was always about hard work. Be the best you can be. Get the most points. Being that person. I was a quiet guy. but I love playing hockey. I know James does too. 

If I had guidance from someone like Coach James and how to be a better leader and all this, maybe potentially I would have been a better leader at university.

Susan: My hope for my players is that at some point in their life, they're going to have to advocate for themselves. The best employees are the ones who can say, Hey, I see something going wrong. We should do better.

James: That's right

David: so I think it's great. This is a good, great

Susan: Thanks, James, for joining us today. 

James: Absolutely. Thank you guys so much for having me on. Like I said, always happy to chat hockey. So it's, it's been great to get on here and have an opportunity to speak.

David: He was great. He's the man. He does a great job. He does a great job. We appreciate him being on today.

James: Awesome. Thank you guys.

David: Thank you.

Susan: Another great session with you, David, and thanks to all our listeners for tuning in.

We'll be back next week to answer more questions on Coaching Call. The audio podcast is available from Apple, Spotify, and other directories. The vidcast is available on YouTube. Send us your questions in the comments or at our website, newcoach. ca. Bye!