Coaching Call
Coaching Call is is a question show about coaching grassroots hockey.
We have a certain take on coaching hockey. We believe in using sport to make players better people on and off the ice. Your hosts are David Trombley, a coach with 30 years of experience at all levels and ages, and Susan Sim, a new house league coach.
You can submit your questions at http://newcoach.ca/
Coaching Call
Ep 12. How to become an elite women's hockey player
On this episode, our guest is Marie-Pierre Pelissou, member of Team France and SA Bern, and clinical project manager for Nestle. We talk about her personal journey through hockey and how coaching made a difference for her. Although she is living the dream of being a semi-professional player, there were times when her path wasn't clear and she quit hockey entirely.
Coaching Call is a show about coaching grassroots hockey. We believe in using sport to make players better people on and off the ice. Your hosts are David Trombley, a coach with 30 years of experience at all levels and ages, and Susan Sim, a new house league coach. Submit your questions at http://newcoach.ca/ or in the comments.
The vidcast is available on YouTube.
Follow Marie-Pierre Pellisou on these channels.
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mp_pelissou/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mppelissou/
Follow us on the these channels.
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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NewHockeyCoach
Susan: Welcome to Coaching Call our podcast where we answer your questions about hockey coaching. More than skills and drills, we coach for connection and character on and off the ice.
We have a special guest on our podcast today, Marie-Pierre Pelissou. She currently plays for Team France and SC Bern, in Switzerland.
Welcome to our show today, Marie.
Marie: Thank you.
Susan: You and Dave go back a long time,
How Marie got started in hockey
Susan: I'm interested in hearing about your hockey journey because as a mom of a young hockey player, I don't know very much about the pathway from, learn to skate or learn to play to playing professionally, which is what you do.
Also as a coach, how can I help, a player who's on a trajectory like yours? So why don't you tell me about how you got started in hockey?
Marie: So actually I got started in hockey because, my dad's a hockey coach, and so he put me in hockey. But because he was coaching, actually I started a little later. So I did my learn to skate around seven years old and learned to play around eight years old. And then I was in house league, made the select team and Just things moved from there and really learned, to just love the sport and really enjoy it.
And always wanted to do the best that I could and play the highest level that I could. Things just went on from there.
Susan: So did you go into Select the first year?
Marie: Yeah, I want into select the first year. It was really fun. There was like a small tryout. We were three girls, which made it a lot of fun, because these are also, most of the time, they're all boys who are there.
And, to have three girls also made it a lot more fun for me.
Susan: At what point, did you move on from select? Did you play single A, that kind of thing?
Marie: Yeah, I did one year of single A, if I remember correctly, and then I went on to a double A team with the Agincourt Lions at the time, which was a boys team. The move from house league select to double A actually went on with, my dad, he just signed me up for all these hockey camps, like Hockey Extreme.
I did a lot of those camps. And for me at first, honestly, hockey was really hard. Like I wasn't a very good player, at seven or eight years old. I have video recordings of myself skating with one leg. So it's kind of funny. Only skating out with like my right leg. But I got a lot better with all the hockey camps that my dad signed me up for, and it got really fun for me when I started beating the boys and being able to go around them.
That made a huge difference because I think it's really hard when you're in house league or select. House league you're doing like once a week, select twice a week. It's really hard to improve and get yourself, to a double A level with only that kind of ice time.
So coaching is important, but I think at that age as well, like all those development camps are really important. And it's also a commitment from the parents, to bring you when you have school vacations or PA days and stuff like that.
Susan: About what age were you when you started to go into these, higher levels of, leagues?
Marie: Around, yeah, 10 or 11, something like that.
Susan: So it happened pretty quickly for you?
Marie: Yeah. It happened in a couple of years. Yeah. but I think, right now, like it, those things just keep happening sooner and sooner. Like 10 and 11 is not that young. I think there are AAA teams that start when you're like seven now. and I think it's just getting younger and younger for kids nowadays.
So you were playing a pretty high level fairly early and you talked about the support that you had from your family where they were taking you to camps and encouraging you to do this.
Getting good by going to hockey camp
Marie: Yeah. my dad brought me everywhere that he could. I still remember, I think I was like, maybe 12 and, actually Dave had these camps. They were half day camps during March Break. And so there was a forward camp in the morning. From eight to twelve, and there was an afternoon camp from one to five for the defense.
And I was the only kid that was signed up for both camps. And so I got to eat my lunch with the instructors.
[laughter]
If I'm at the level that I'm at today, can definitely say thanks to my parents for signing me up for all those camps and bringing me,You really need to get into the development for the kids and yeah, but that was a really fun camp I had fun eating my lunch with the instructors.
Susan: Do you have memories of this Dave?
David: Yes, I do. a lot of hours on the ice, but, one of the key things is that you want to make it fun for the kids who are coming to the camps, and it is grueling. It is a long time on the ice for them, and kids just want to have fun, as Marie said. And, but the same token, practice isn't fun.
So how do you make practice fun? Back then we had to do power skating. That was all always an hour of power skating. There were no pucks during those power skating, and then we went to small groups and always the last hour. We had games of, of some sort,compliments to Marie. She had that drive and, but in addition to that,you got to put the time in and if you don't put the time in, you can't get results. That's just a very easy equation.
Marie: Yeah, and I remember exactly how those camps went. It was one hour of power skating without the puck and then there was one hour of power skating with the puck. And then there were stations and then there were games Yeah.
Susan: They're still like that. They're still like that. My son goes, went to his camps. He's a little bit too old for them now, but yep, that's the format.
David: A little bit. You know what the formats there, James made it more game gamify, especially in the third hour. So anyway, we only do three hours. We don't do four anymore, but, Hey, it's all good. So what we do, we do have kids that actually will do the both, three hour in the morning, three and a half hour, we used to do a full day camp. Where the kids used to come for the full day, such as Marie.
Susan: Marie, let's get back to your hockey journey. I guess we're getting into the high school age. Now, this is an age where a lot of kids, stop doing recreational sport, but I'm going to guess that you got more serious as time went on.
Marie: Definitely so
Transition to women's hockey
Marie: I remember, so there was middle school, where I made a transition to women's hockey, actually. It was getting tough with the boys, they were starting to get a little bigger. But it was also a lot more fun, to be in the dressing room with the team and not be on your own. And a lot more encouraging as well. And yeah, since I was also playing the highest level at the time, I think Bantam AA, it was, encouraging also to keep going and to keep playing. So I just did it because I had fun with the team.
Susan: So that was middle school. And then for high school, I actually, was approached by, Kim McCullough, who runs a Total Female Hockey.
Marie: She was going over to coach at a school at PEAC, which was a premier elite athlete, um, academy. It was new at the time and they had a lot of, hockey players, a lot of big names that were going over there. They only had boys and this was a big problem for the school, and they were really trying to, start a women's program.
Kim reached out, to girls on my team, and there was actually, four of us from my team that ended up going to that school the following year. It was great because the teachers could also understand if we had tournaments, we needed to miss school. Everything was built around our sport. So we actually started school a little bit later to allow us to sleep in because they knew we had practice every day, every night. And then we had an hour of, ice time at lunchtime and we would have our last classes in the afternoon before going off with our club again.
Susan: That's a lot of
Marie: yeah, it's a lot of hockey. And even in the second and third year of the program, we had an hour of, off ice, in the morning before the classes start. So an hour of, off ice, then two classes, an hour on the ice, two classes, and then, my parents would pick me up and bring me to practice.
Susan: Did you enjoy all of it or were there times where it felt like a lot?
Marie: Sometimes it felt like a lot. I think. in the ninth grade, I was so excited to be doing all of this. So that was a year that was really fun. but by the twelfth grade, it definitely felt, like a lot. I think it's also good to have breaks. Sometimes it can be too much. And in the twelfth grade, I also remember that we went from, practices that were at 8 pm. To practices that were like at 9 pm. So it would also get a lot later. At nighttime, and it would just make you a lot more tired. Sometimes it was a lot, but at the end of the day, I think it was worth it. And the school is also really good at understanding if one day you wanted to take a day off, you could.
What kept you going?
Yeah, what keeps us going? That's a tough question because it's a bit also out of habit, I would say. This is what you've always done. This is what you know how to do. And when you're on the ice, it's your thing. It's what you know. So You want to keep going with it.
Even now, even today, it's what I do. Like when people say, but you do all that. And I'm like, but if I don't, then what would I do? If I don't work, then go to practice, or if my weekend, I don't spend my weekend traveling to go and play games, what would I do? This is fun. This is what I do.
This is who I am. And I think we also at one point you build an identity around that. Yeah, it just becomes a part of who you are.
Susan: That's really interesting. I think there's an element of this is what I do, this is how I've organized my life. But there's also, you have to love it a lot to keep going, because I'm not hearing you say, I went through a rough patch, maybe you did, or that there was a time I thought about quitting.
Quitting
Marie:
So I did go through a rough patch. I went through a rough patch in university actually. So in university I was actually offered a scholarship to go to Queen's University in Kingston. And I went there my first year and it was great. I had a good first year. I had a good first year at hockey.
But I think, maybe too much hockey and I was actually, so I wanted to study like biomedical sciences. And I was the only one on my team in that program, and everyone else was, in other programs more related to sports.
there were a couple engineers on the team as well who had a tough time with school.
But for me, I think it was way too much. the school, the labs, plus hockey, and it was everything just built around hockey. And as a woman, you know that you're not gonna, have your whole career be about hockey and that school is still important. It was a lot tougher for me to have that kind of, school-hockey balance in university.
I think my high school was great because they were very flexible, but it might not have prepared, us in the best way for the expectations of university professors. And so for me, at the end of that one year at Queens, I actually, started by, quitting the hockey team and being like, is this really what I want to do?
And questioning myself. So I quit the hockey team first, and then I actually also quit the university program and I started running. I did a whole summer of running
A new opportunity comes for Marie
Susan: Which is not as fun as hockey really. I don't know why I did that But a lot of questions about my life and where I wanted to go next and what I wanted to do but what I actually didn't know, is that when you quit the team, your name gets released to all the other coaches, to all the other universities.
Marie: that's when I had, Stacey from Laurentian University call me up and say, Hey! What happened? Why did you leave Queen's? We want you at Laurentian. I was like, oh, okay. and I hadn't really considered that option. I went on the school website, started to look. And she told me they had a biomedical science department.
It was a much smaller school, than Queen's. so instead of having like thousands of people in my classes, I was going to have maximum 100 people per class. Which is also a lot better because then the professors actually know you, and they know that you're in a varsity sport and they can actually support you.
Stacey always said that to her school came first. So that, we needed to be good with our grades and have good grades, and go to class. That was also very important to me. And I liked her philosophy a lot, and that's why I accepted her offer to, to come to Laurentian and restart playing hockey.
But, when you switch universities like that, you actually have to do a whole year off of hockey. my first year at Laurentian, I did all the practices and I didn't play a single game.
Susan: Oh.
Marie: that was very tough.
Susan: Did you get better?
Marie: Yeah, I was practicing and what I did was actually, they had a recreational league. and I played in that with, There were only really men in that league, so I played with them. So it was still a fast game, so I could still get some like exhibition games going. But yeah, I think it's a year where I got better. But,I think it was definitely, I was really looking forward to playing a real game again.
Susan: I, thank you for sharing that story. It's so illustrative of so many things. First, you were saying that it was really tough to make that change, but like looking back, it sounds like a success story, but going through it, it must've been really dark. There's the academic side, there's the hockey side, like you had given up hockey, and you just ran and the thing about running is that you're totally inside your head when you run.
Marie: So I think I want to, ask about that time, what did it feel like when you were going through it? Did it feel like, this is the end? It didn't feel like this is the end. It just felt like I don't know what I'm doing. But one thing when I was running, it was actually that I decided that for the first time in my life, I would try to run 10K and I had never done that. When we were training, we were always running like 4K, like Queens had this like fitness tests of how fast can you run a 4K.
But 10k I had never run before so I told myself I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna run 10k and once I ran 10k I told myself I ran it, but that was slow So I'm gonna run it in 45 minutes, and I did And then after that, I was like, okay, I'm going to run it again, but in 40 minutes. And I kept wanting to get better.
And I was competing with myself and realizing that I was really missing that competitive side, that I needed a goal, something to drive towards, and that I think competing is just like within me. When Stacey called and gave me the opportunity to get back into that high level intensity and to compete again. I think it was,that's one of the reasons I said, yes, this is I want to compete again. I want to have, I have that drive still to go and get some goals. So I want to do it. Yeah, for sure.
Losing one's identity as a hockey player
David: This happens for a lot of hockey players.
We're listening to Marie and she has a beautiful story here. But, you know, you hear her talk about how hockey was her life and it was her identity and then all of a sudden when she went to Queen's University, it became questionable because all of a sudden,hockey and schooling, it just wasn't balancing, it wasn't working out and then she had to drop one in the hardest one.
She dropped was her identity one, the hockey player one. So she lets go of this hockey player and then she finished the school and like, who the hell am I? You know, I'm this hockey player. I love hockey. Why did I have to quit hockey? And then you think about all the NHL professional players that all of a sudden their careers come to a halt, and all of a sudden they go to this dark place.
What do I do next? And for Marie, she got into running. We start doing things that aren't normal, because I hate running too.I've tried to run, and It doesn't last very long, but I compliment Marie for doing what she did, and then all of a sudden she got this call. And then this call came along from Laurentian, but now it created this balance, where she could do school and her hockey.
And even though she had to practice for a whole year, made her better or whatever, she realized through that year, she had this drive and passion she still wanted to play.
But her coach gave her this opportunity, you can still do school now too. At the highest level. She can do, fulfill both. You know what, she's fulfilling both, not just the one, right? Cause she, she's a smart woman. You know what, Marie knew that there's no NHL for women. she's given this gift.
And now she can see that she needs this balance in her life. And I bet you that's kind of helped her move forward. Would you agree with that, Marie?
Marie: Yeah. And it's also helped me see, What I'm going to do differently this time, because I know that, yeah, like you said, like when NHL players, their careers come to an end, maybe you have a void, you have a gap. And because I've been through that once, I'm actually preparing myself because I know I can't play hockey forever.
So I've actually made a list of the things that I want to do when I stop playing. So that I don't have that kind of a void next time that I decide that, when I decide to retire from my hockey career.
David: Maybe Marie might say that my identity is not just a hockey player. I'm also this, this, this, this, this, and this. And that's where she can realize that yeah, a hockey player is big for me, and I learned to become a great person from hockey. Hockey was this great gift, a vehicle that gave me who I am today.
This wonderful person who loves to give back, who will help others out during hockey practice. And then in addition to that, it gave me schooling to study what I wanted to study. And she gets into bio med or whatever she goes into, She becomes that next identity. She has a new identity coming up and she recognized it.
Rather than just kind of hitting her right in the wall, which hit me in the wall one day, long time ago, when I was told that I could never play hockey again, it's very frightful. It's very scary, because you set yourself up as one thing only, and you're more than one thing. And I don't think a lot of us know that.
We're more than just one thing only.
Marie: Yeah, for sure. No, I think that's also something I've been trying to work on is like identify with other things in my life that I do well and that I can do and say, okay, I'm more than just a hockey player. But it's true that when people ask me, what do you do? my first thing is,I'm a hockey player because I'm so happy to be a hockey player.
And then I talk about my job as well. But my first thing is,I'm a semi-professional hockey player.
David: You've earned that there, young lady. Let me tell you, you've earned that, right? You've earned that. Be proud to say it. Absolutely.
Susan: Okay, so let's move on to this chapter. So after university, how did you become a semi-professional hockey player?
Marie created another opportunity in Europe
Marie: Oh, so that, that was another, because after university, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. There wasn't, the NHL for women yet, so my options were pretty restricted. My dad was born in France. he lived there when he was younger as well, and then he moved to Canada with, his family.
And so I actually have a French passport. my dad always thought it was very important for me to have a French passport, so I've had it since I, I was little. And, that's when I decided to contact the French national team. because at that point,Team Canada was no longer an option for me.
but I knew that maybe I could help out another team and, keep playing this way. So I contacted the French team and, talked to the coach and he agreed to give me a tryout. I booked a plane to go to France and I didn't really know for how long I booked a one way flight.
at the same time, I wanted a Plan B as well. So I knew there was a league in Switzerland and I contacted a couple of teams and told them, This is the situation I've contacted Team France. If, they choose to keep me, I will have to play there for a year and I can come play in Switzerland afterwards and if they don't, then I'm available right away to come to Switzerland. And so what ended up happening, I went to France, I tried out and he said, yeah, I'm very interested in having you on the team. So we would like you to complete your one year, to be allowed to play for us. Because when you join a new national team, you have to live one year in that country, and play hockey in that country for at least a year.
I, I believe now it's eight months, but when I did it, it was a full year.
that's what I did. I played with, Pol France, which is the Team France, development team. it's changed a lot now, but when I was on it, there were half of the girls, who were senior players, and the other half who were U18 players, we practiced every day, and we played in the U17, boys league in France. We played against, boys all year.
It was a lot of fun. I had a lot of fun in my first year in France.
So yeah, so I did that for a year. But then afterwards, I didn't see myself staying in that team because I didn't want to be playing with boys or against boys all year. I saw an opportunity in Switzerland, also a beautiful country to travel to. I decided my second year to sign over there as a semi-professional hockey player.
Susan: Do you have a day job as well as the hockey?
Marie: Of course! I've had, I've had many day jobs, since I've been in Europe. my first one when I arrived in France, I was actually, an English professor at the university in the small town where I was, so that was pretty interesting. It was pretty funny.
In my second year in, Neuchatel in Switzerland. was actually really tough, to find a job. In Switzerland, they have, a very different educational system. And so they have very precise diplomas, for jobs, that I didn't, have. So my first year I was actually just,waitressing. I think after six months, I found a job as a medical secretary, in a medical cabinet. Eventually I found a job, at the local hospital where I was a data manager and research coordinator.
Susan: Oh, that's cool
Marie: Yeah, that was really cool. It was my first stepping stone into clinical research and today I'm a clinical project manager for Nestle.
Susan: Oh, so you're actually using your educational background too.
Marie: Yeah, of course. And while I was in Switzerland, I actually ended up doing a second diploma in the management of clinical trials at the University of Geneva.
Susan: Oh, very cool.
Marie: Yeah, I actually just finished that one last year, so it was really fun.
Susan: That's great. Now, David tells me that he watched you play at the women's worlds last year.
Marie: Yes, and I saw him there too. Yeah, that was a really fun experience.
2023 IIHF Women's World Championship
David: Yeah, it was very fortunate.
It was a great experience to go watch Marie play and actually all the teams, It was super high level hockey and, it's just amazing how good female hockey is. And I still feel many people don't realize it, it, there's body contact, as much as there's not supposed to be any body contact, but, it's fast hockey, really fast hockey. During her busy schedule, she did have five minutes to hunt me down during one of the games, Team Canada versus Team USA, we spent, five minutes Just, chit chatting, so that was, appreciated I highly recommend to go watch this female hockey.
Marie has one of the hardest slap shots too, Susan. Did you know that?
Susan: No.
Marie: Yeah, they, I actually didn't know this, but they put, I chips, in the pucks, and then they could see, how fast your shots would go.At the end of the preliminary rounds, I was, top three I was the third woman with the hardest shot with, I think it was a 127 kilometers per hour
Susan: That's amazing.
Marie: It was a lot of fun because I really wasn't expecting it and it came out on Instagram and someone just like one of my teammates sent me this and she was like, wow, oh my God, you're so strong.
That was really fun to know. And I didn't even know that they were taking this kind of stats. That was a nice surprise.
David: She puts a lot of work into her games, especially off the ice. You know what, she does a lot of Instagramming. It's fun to watch, but she does a lot of Instagramming of her workouts at the gym. This girl works out hard. Let me tell you, though, I'm tired just watching the Instagram videos. And, you know what, but I'll be honest with you, it brings back memories of, when I was younger and you go to the gym.
It's fun. It's fun going to the gym. It's fun getting stronger. It's fun getting faster. It's fun working out with your teammates. Isn't that true, Marie? And then all that added together, what, produces, good things. 127 kilometer slap shot. that's a good thing.
That's a good thing. Kudos to her, but it's hard work.
Marie: I should probably verify that number. don't know if it was 23 or 27, but it was something around there.,It was pretty fun and they actually. They did it again, in Switzerland this year.
We had a game and they weregoing to test this out because I think they're hosting the U18 Worlds in Switzerland. And so they tested out, all of this material again. During the game, I actually took four slapshots and so they put the hardest four slapshots and my name appeared four times on the board.
Well, there has to be some truth behind it, right? They didn't get it mixed up with someone else, right? So
Yeah,
Susan: Yeah. So, I'm curious, um, I'm going to try and tie together some of the things that you've been saying. you have a love of the game. You have a fabulous work ethic. You had a supportive family and you had people like coaches at various times take an interest in you and say, Hey, I want to. provide an opportunity for you.
And I think you need all of those things to perform well at a high level. And so what I want to drill down on,is the coaching. what kind of coaching made a really big difference for you? What helped you get to where you are?
Coaches who made a difference
Marie: I think coaches that help you the most are the ones that don't only help you on the ice. The coaches that really help you are also the ones who care about your life and who will give you advice that's advice that works on the ice, but it also works off the ice. I've seen this, quite a bit in, in different coaches that I've had, over the years.
The first coach was,it was my dad. My dad was all about really like the work ethic and everything that I would do in hockey would also relate to my work life later on. I had to be on time at practice because at your job, you also need to be on time. and things like that around work ethic. I could accomplish whatever I wanted if I worked hard for it.
And the same way, if you want to be good in school, I had homework for school and I had hockey homework where I had to go and take shots in the garage. I think that was really a first step for me was, my dad coached me in my first couple years of hockey. That was definitely important.
And also,my university coach. she was big on this, on teaching us, life lessons,that were not only about hockey, but about things outside hockey. one of the things that she told me, because I would, I always stress out about things and where things were going, and to me, I wanted to have, a plan, and she was like, Marie, trust the process. It will come. You just have to do the work and trust the process.
And it's true that sometimes you're getting ahead of yourself and you can panic about what lies ahead in life and what will come and the next steps and the stress builds up. But if you just trust the process, what you're doing now, I think things will line up and you will get to where you're supposed to be.
I really like that. and it rings true with the stories that you've told us today, both, the trials that you had at the university level, also going over to France to try something different. It looks like a roadblock, but you turned it into something else. And I think that aligns with what David and I talk about a lot, in terms of coaching, is that you use the sport to teach kids how to be better people. It's not just about, whether you can do dangles or toe drags or whatever in front of the net. It's sport is like a laboratory for you to learn these skills that you can apply elsewhere.
Yeah Yeah, and I think it's really important, especially when you're younger, there are skills and there are life lessons that you can learn from hockey and it just prepares you for life in general. So even if you don't end up in the NHL or having a really cool hockey career, You'll still end up with these values.
Also a lot of values about,Your team, right? Because you're always working as a team. It's also not an individual sport. So you need to also work with everybody on your team, and get, the best out of every single player. And even when you're a player on the team, you want the best out of your teammates. like how to get that and, how to make sure everybody in the dressing room feels good, feels, like they matter, feels like they're listened to and feels like you're confident in their abilities, to get the best out of it.
And I think that also lines up with a lot of things in life, because even in work, it's rare that you're working alone. A lot of times you're working within a department, within a team, and you also have to do the same thing there.
Susan: This is awesome. These are all the things that I want my hockey players to learn. And I, it's so encouraging for me to hear you say these things, because it sounds like you've had some good coaching.
Learning from being a coach
Marie: Yeah, I've definitely had coaches that made a difference for me along the way. I think a great experience as well for me was to coach myself. so I actually attended all of Dave's camps until I was, I couldn't attend them any longer because I was too old. And the year I became too old for the camps, I asked, Dave, if I could coach in the camps.
And, this actually helped me out a lot because,first I did my interview, which Dave drilled me in my interview because we did a power skating, practice and he had me do every single demonstration in front of the kids. So I remember he was like, we're going to do this drill. Marie, you want to show like, yeah, I'll show, But no, I think coaching really got me out of my comfort zone as well.
and I learned a lot from Dave on how to coach the kids and, also how to connect, with the kids so that they would listen to my advice and what I had to tell them. And this also, created a lot of people's skills along the way and really how to better connect with people and to make sure that they're listening to you.
And, yeah, so I think this also really helped me.
David: Now, she's forgetting that, she also coached in my women's league as well.
Marie: Oh yeah
David: So they loved Marie. Can we have Coach Marie? Can we have Coach Marie?
Marie: the women's league was so much fun to coach. And, I think what really made a difference, how I connected with them was by giving them small goals that I, that they knew they could achieve during the game and also by taking the game seriously. because, it is a women's league, that's for fun, but I also was taking it seriously in the way that I wanted them to get better.
something that you see all the time in women's hockey, is that we are way too nice. You get in front of the net, you have an opportunity to shoot, and you pass. but my teammate is there. I want to pass. She's my friend. And, one of the ways that I got my teams to actually start shooting was that I told them that I wanted to see them do at least 10 shots per period, which is huge.
It's a huge number. but they were actually like, okay, so they were thinking about this and then they were starting to score and they were like, oh, when you're our coach, we score. I was like, yeah, because I'm asking you to shoot and you're doing it,I had a lot of fun with the women and connecting with them, that was really great.
David: Marie, did any of your women teams win the final game?
Marie: I did three seasons, and I won two out of the three, I think.
David: There we go. Proof in the pudding.
Susan: My question, for you is, what's something we shouldn't do? What's something that didn't work? your advice for coaches now.
Marie: I think it depends on what level that you're coaching, and on the situation, but I think when kids are younger, to not discourage them and to not give, very negative comments, To not lower their self confidence,Depending on the level, everybody needs ice time. When you're at a house league or select level, you need to give the different kids ice time, because that can really affect their confidence. They might not want to play afterwards if they're like coach isn't putting me out, so this must mean that I'm really bad and I don't want to play anymore. I think when they're younger, you definitely need to give a chance to everybody and just to make the game fun for them. Cutting the bench will come soon enough
So, but I actually remember this with my younger brother. So there was a day in grade twelve where my mom had to go to work and my dad too, but my brother had a tournament and my dad said, you can take your brother to the tournament. And I was so happy to miss school and bring my brother to the tournament. So I was like, yeah, no problem.
So my brother is actually 10 years younger than me. So while I was 17, he was like seven years old and he was already playing an A team at the time. I bring my brother to this tournament, he plays the game. He got one shift in the first period, and in the second period, he didn't go on the ice and the third period, he didn't go on the ice either.
And I found myself in the stands going absolutely crazy. It's my seven year old brother and you're, and the coach, wasn't making him play and was actually just five forwards and four defense. To me, it was ridiculous because they were kids and just starting and some of them their first year, and you're already discouraging them.
and to this day, I think I really regret not saying anything to the coach about that. But I told myself at the time that I didn't want to be one of those crazy hockey parents, siblings in this case, and that I was also 17 and that he was, probably 45 and would not have listened to me anyways.
But I remember like being so angry and my brother just being like, it's okay, it's okay. And he could see that I was really angry and I was like, no, it's not okay.
and he wasn't the only one in this situation and it can really discourage you from playing and from having that confidence. thankfully, the year after we changed the, coach and everything went well for my brother who is,also playing over in France right now, in a division two for Angers, so he did keep playing, but it was tough there that year, because you see, how can you, for a seven year old to be so sad about not playing, right?
So I think that's really something to avoid. Because what I wanted to tell the coach at the end of the day is, are you going to put this on your coaching CV that you won the Atom A tournament. is this really important to you? what's important to you as a coach? And I think that's important to know.
Like what is your goal? What's your objective as a coach? What do you want for these kids? Or do you want to put on your resume that you won the minor Atom select tournament? Is this really important?
David: got to make players feel important. at the national level, they're a little bit different, but you know what, all the way up, and we talked to John Byrd, who coached me to a championship at Bantam AA, rolled the lines, every player saw the ice.
You can still make every player feel important. your role is going to be when we're killing penalties. You're killing penalties. You're on the power play. Whatever. But there's that communication.
And last night, you know, at Darcy's house league, we 11 skaters. One of the worst numbers to have, as you know. So five start, five go out next, and then I got one, and she's like, Don't I go out? Well then, how do I make that person feel important? You're the next girl to go out. You can play any position you want. Really? Of course, they go, I want to play center. And in my head I'm like going, except center. But I go, okay, you can play center.
Susan: I think ice time and positions are a little bit of a self fulfilling prophecy in the sense that if you never give them the ice time and you never give them that position, they'll never be able to become that player. But once You start giving them the time, once you start putting them into that position they become that player that you want them to be.
David: No, I just wanted them to feel good. You know what, that, because they were thinking about being sat for two shifts, right? So I want that out of their head and everyone sat equally through the whole game.
Any parting words for parents or players who may be on this same journey as you?
Marie: I would just say it all starts with fun when they're young, they need to have fun because if you're not enjoying the game, then you're going to quit eventually. Like you're just going to stop eventually. So always remember thatyour kids really need to have fun. and same thing when you're coaching, if you're coaching younger players, you, want to teach them and you want it, you want to coach, but always includea fun aspect because I think it's important to learn skills during practices.
If you want your, really the kids to move, to the next level, like you need to do the things that aren't fun, like power skating and other
drills. But I think at the end, it's always fun to include some kind of game, to really get the kids and their competitive side going. yeah, I think. Yeah. As when you're coaching younger kids, really think about what your objectives are and what you, want for those kids.
Susan: I've heard David say the exact same thing.
David: I think a lot of great things said today And I think Marie wrapped it up extremely well. we're here for the kids. Make it fun in the beginning, make everyone feel important on that hockey team and really express the positives in your game. Every kid knows when they screw it. up. Every kid knows. Don't go over it again. Talk about the great back check. Talk about the great forward check. Talk about a face off win. Anything. There's enough of those that we have to find and the kids need to hear them again.
Reflecting Back
Marie: It's funny because you see you I do all of this, but talking about it makes you realize what you've been through and the journey. And, yeah, I think for me, the funny thing about my journey is that it's not at all what I expected for myself, and it's not at all a very straightforward journey You know that people sometimes they have very straightforward journeys.
They can be like I was U16 Team Canada, U18 Team Canada Olympics It's just kind of goes But I think at the end of the day everybody finds their way. So
David: And you know what, Marie, it's,those players that you were talking about at the end, it's HOF, Hall of Fame.That's a very few. And even myself, I found myself, I wanted certainty in my direction. It was Midget AAA, OHL, NHL.I wanted that line.
It didn't go that way at all, you know. I think players need to hear it. They need to hear it from their coaches that every player in this room is going to have a different journey. Where you want to go. You may all end up here one day. Like my midget team, 12 of us were drafted to the NHL, which is a big number from that midget.Some of us went OHL, some went Junior A, some went to the college, some went here. You know, it just kind of was, kind of like everywhere, right? One had a streamline to the NHL, Bryan Marchment, right? So Besides that, the rest of us were a bunch of, you know, just trying to get there. You got to be flexible along the way. Where is your path going? And then you have to readjust and look, who am I? I think your identity as a hockey at Queen's was a real big one for you. Listening to your path and you know what you made it through.
And I think that story is going to help so many players, a lot of players need to hear that story. It's a very good story. It's a deep one. You sound like Forrest Gump. You had to go for a run.
Marie: For me, it was always really hard because I always saw this like straight path like this is what I'm gonna do It's gonna work. I'm gonna go to university for four years and then I'm gonna... To me, it was even more than that because it was like, okay I'm gonna play hockey for four years on the scholarship and then I'm gonna go to med school and then I'm gonna become a doctor And then I'll do this and it was just like every kind of dream crumbled down and was like, what's my life going to be?
Things happen and you're not behind in your life. You always feel this way too, because then, like, when I did that that gap year. In the switching universities, not all my credits transferred. So all of a sudden I had to do a fifth year in university.
And then you're like, Oh my God, I'm behind in my life. I've learned over time, that's a really stupid thing to say and to think about. Nobody's behind. Everybody's taking a different path. Everybody's allowed to take the time that they want to accomplish whatever goals that they have.
It's not because you, you're not like a year too old to do something. Like that's not a thing. Yeah, a lot of life lessons and I'm happy where I'm with where I ended up,
David: Absolutely. It's funny how along the way you had these rules. You had these rules that you had in your head that, you know, Oh my God, I had to take a fifth year at Laurentian, now I'm behind. It was just an internal rule that you had. Who gave that to you? I don't know. Maybe you just made it up. But you need to delete it and get rid of it. And once you did, you're like, oh my god, my life is so much. I'm right where I need to be.
Marie: Well, thanks for having me! This was fun, Dave!
David: Thank you. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. Okay, take
Marie: care
You too, bye!
David: Bye bye.
Susan: Thanks Marie for being our guest today. thanks to our listeners to tuning in to Coaching Call.David and I will be back to answer more questions. The audio podcast is available from Apple, Spotify, and other directories. The vidcast is available on YouTube. Send us your questions in the comments or on our website, newcoach.ca.
Bye!