Coaching Call
Coaching Call is is a question show about coaching grassroots hockey.
We have a certain take on coaching hockey. We believe in using sport to make players better people on and off the ice. Your hosts are David Trombley, a coach with 30 years of experience at all levels and ages, and Susan Sim, a new house league coach.
You can submit your questions at http://newcoach.ca/
Coaching Call
Ep. 14. How to get the most out of your players
Our guest on this episode is Brandon Stojcevski, a professional hockey player with the Danbury Hat Tricks. We talk about his path through youth hockey, which included being cut from teams, multiple injuries, and missed seasons. David and Brandon share stories about coaches they've had at various levels. They reflect on both inspirational and tough things that coaches have done to get the most out of their players.
Coaching Call is a show about coaching grassroots hockey. We believe in using sport to make players better people on and off the ice. Your hosts are David Trombley, a coach with 30 years of experience at all levels and ages, and Susan Sim, a new house league coach. Submit your questions at http://newcoach.ca/ or in the comments.
The vidcast is available on YouTube.
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Susan: Welcome to Coaching Call, our podcast where we talk about coaching grassroots hockey. More than skills and drills, we coach for connection and character on and off the ice.
We have a guest today, Brandon Stoichevsky. He plays with the Danbury Hat Tricks in Connecticut, which is part of the FPHL, Federal Prospects Hockey League. Welcome, Brandon.
Brandon: Hi guys. Thank you so much for having me.
Susan: so your hockey career, you did the usual house league, select, single A, double A, triple A, and a year of junior B and a year of junior A. and now you're playing professionally. But what's most important, I think, or most interesting about your career is the breaks that you took.
You didn't take a straight line path to professional hockey.
Brandon: not. I, yeah. So I started off playing uh, house league and select like every other kid at Victoria Village Arena. So start off there. And then I moved to the GTHL the first year I could. I believe I was nine at the time. And uh, with the Don Mills Flyers and just played minor hockey out and up until I was about 13.
As from so when I was So when I was 12 years old, so it would have been yeah, I used U12 up until I was 17, I didn't grow. I was uh, 5 foot 1, 130 pounds and you know I got cut from my AAA team and got cut from every other AAA team at that time and all I could really do was play a year of AA That's what I took. And so I was very, very tough at that time. And then he said, right after that, I had an injury. I was 15 and it was in a tryout and I break in my arm for the first time.
And then less than two years later, broke the same arm and I required surgery on that. And that was, was at the time when I wasn't growing, but after the second break, I slowly started to grow, again. And then I, finally made AAA when I was uh, seventeen finally made AAA again. And then first two weeks into the season, I banged up my shoulder pretty good.
And said, you know, for like two months and I said, you know what, let me just take this year off and focus on, you know, growing and myself and my game. And yeah, and then I made junior. I believe two years after that was when I made junior. So yeah, a lot lot of time off not playing, yeah.
David:
for Brandon to have so much time off, but still persevere, what did you believe in that allowed you to keep moving forward with your hockey career and eventually end up playing with the Danbury Hat Tricks right now?
Brandon: Yeah So, and foremost is, you believe in myself and my abilities and what I can do and passion for the game and my love for the game, that's what like, I fully, you know, on more than anything else, right. like I said, if I'm working out or getting extra ice time and if I'm. It never felt like work once. It was always just, I'm just out here doing what I love.
And secondly, I always kind of on the everyday process of what I can't control, right? Focusing on the controllable always. So if I can, you focus on everything down the road and teams I can make, or am I going to grow, or am I going to do this, that like, I'm focusing on everyday things that I can't control, like waking up, am I going to, you know, ice today, can I work on my shot, my skating, my hands, or working out, things like that, that I can contribute to my process of getting better, then every day, like I'm winning, right?
So I knew if I kept doing that and obviously I had, you know, and a great support team around me, but I knew if I just kept focusing on what I can do to get better and not focusing on things out of my control, then I can. So, during those times I just worked out on my own at, home.
And uh, lot of times, you know, didn't have the big money resources to constantly have a private trainer to get on the ice with. I was going to local stick and pucks around Toronto, which... you're out on the ice every day if you want for less than $10 and that's how I do it. Pretty much been training like that for a few years, do it that way, but I'd say yeah, love of the game and focusing on things I can control day by day,
David: That is awesome. You know what?
And I think that would be great advice for a lot of kids in any aspect of life. It's what you focus on. And if you focus on what you don't have, that's what really stops you from moving forward. But Brandon focused on the things that he did have. What he could control. We're not getting a private instructor to teach me how to shoot or skate, but there's stick and puck. I can go to the local rinks. I can go on there for free. I can, find stuff. I can go online. I can find little drills to do. And then what can I control? And then he believed that, you know what, I am going to make it.
You know what? And he just kept that belief all the time and kept pushing himself. So what a great recipe. I think that's great. Thanks for sharing that.
Brandon: of course.
Susan: Yeah. Yeah.
it's really inspirational because there's this image that, you just have to play straight through. If fall back, it's hard to catch up again. Or that if you, that you can't miss a year of hockey because then you'll be behind your peers. And that's just not true in your case.
Brandon: No uh, definitely not. Like, I find, especially nowadays uh, say kids and parents are, focused on, where they're going to be in a few years or whether they're going to get... I see obviously, we live in like, everybody calls the Mecca of hockey, which is Toronto, right? So we live in where you hear everything from my kids going to go to the NHL when we're six years old, right?
They don't realize the steps and factors of things that can, you the way of that. And I think kids every day should just focus on like one. We always say it's having fun and enjoying it. Right. that will come everything else, whether, you know, train or to, and keep getting better.
Right. first and foremost, that should be it every day. You should have that passion too. You love what you're doing every day. I'd say focus on that for foremost before we move on to all that crazy stuff. Yeah,
Susan: Yeah. Dave and I talk about this. What we want for our kids is for them to have fun. And for my son, when I first signed him up for hockey, I wanted a sport that he could play with his friends for the rest of his life.
Brandon: that's what hockey does. Yeah, the best friendships and life experiences along the way that teach you
David: Brandon's absolutely right. when you're focusing two, three years down the road on things you cannot control and you're so worried about everyone else is moving up and that you're falling behind, you're focusing on things you can't control, then you start to feel this panic, you feel this stress, you feel this, oh my God, now what are we going to do?
Where if you just can't step back and say, what can we control? that coach may not pick me, but maybe there's other teams I can go to and try out for. And if I don't make those teams, there's a place for me to play somewhere. And then, you know what, I'll make new friends. I'll still develop.
I'll still go to the rink and I'll still get these classes to work on. And you know what, whatever happens but I want to focus on what I can control as I move forward. Absolutely.
Brandon: I'm having that, you know, belief in yourself to, you confident in your abilities and, and uh, biggest thing. Like you said, I, you you have the same story going through minor hockey and junior, like you. was pretty good player before I didn't grow and everything.
You that you played with that, you know, you two, three years down the road, they're drafted there in the NHL. And it, you know, be like, ah, it was better than that guy. I could play with that guy. If you start focusing on that stuff right, where that, those negative thoughts come to play, which, you know, be, could create a very dark situation for yourself.
But if you, really positive, believe in yourself, you know, what you're doing, and, you just love, love the game more than anybody else, and work hard, right? Good things are gonna happen, right? No matter what.
David: Yeah, absolutely. The thing that I've learned as well, Brandon, is that, those other guys that, were drafted and those other guys that, got their opportunities earlier, congratulate them, even if you don't see them, just say in your head, good for you good for you, good for you, And you just keep focusing on yourself. Cause it really helps you grow as a person, right? Absolutely. and it might be difficult,
Brandon: You're your own biggest competition.
David: You're right. There you go. That's where I was going. Yeah, absolutely.
Brandon: Yeah, you should always focus on you versus you every day. Are you getting better every day? Then you're winning. forget about anybody
David: You're winning.
Susan: Do you think you can coach someone to have this kind of self belief?
Brandon: Uh, I think so. I think you could definitely um, coach and mentor somebody to have this belief. I find like, lot of the self belief in your abilities andthe process and what you're doing, it comes from within, right? You gotta fully, somebody could tell you to believe in yourself, but that comes within.
Like, you gotta fullybuild those habits. But that comes from doing it, right? If you're performing a skill or you're playing the game every day, like you're going to build that confidence, that self belief, right? So it comes from you doing it, but having a coach or mentor like, reassure you or lead you or help you, help with this belief system Right. can be huge for somebody, right?
Like, um, it's very easy, like hockey and life, same thing. I was very up and down. Like you could have the best week, one week, and next week you have a tough game or a tough week of practice and your confidence and your belief is like right down, right? So having say a coach in that point, um, you that positive reinforcement and Talk to you about your game and where you're at and everything that could be huge for a player, right?
So having sure so I'd say uh, when it's going great too, right having somebody again, you to get the most out of you. Let's say so having that support I'd say is huge for sure help with it lot. Yeah
David: the thing is, coaches with experience is why you see older guys on the bench, because they come with a lot of experience.
They've come up their ups and downs and all the rounds, and they will be able to reframe you you know what, into saying, hey, you know what, you're going to get through this. I've been there before. And, whether, like you said, Brandon, at your highs, Pushing it to be even better or if you're at your lows and Brandon has a good pattern, a belief system right here. And some other people have patterns that aren't so good, that need to be shifted and changed just a little bit. So they become better.
I believe it can be changed.
Absolutely. Still comes down to the individual. The individual still, you can go screw it. I don't want to change. That's fine. You don't have to, but you're not going to make it. That's the bottom line.
Brandon: You're not going to learn because you can learn from every single person that comes into your life. You can learn something from them. Right? again, having that open mind and listening to those around you that will have that experience. Cause a lot of time coaches do. And like I said, a lot of times coaches, you know, best for you, right?
As especially your young kids learning the game, right? So definitely having that open mind and taking all those coaches have to offer for sure.
Susan: So Brandon, you've been the recipient of a lot of coaching and you've had coaches who had different styles over the years.
What kind, what do you think are the elements that make up the different styles of coaching?
Brandon: A few. It varies, obviously, every level and every situation that the team is at or that the kids are at. Personally, my career, I'd say, especially in junior, even in minor hockey, the two biggest ones I've had was, like, the player development versus winning at all costs. I see type of coaches have one environment that can obviously be intense and pressure filled, but the focus is more on players and just getting better, right? I've had that a bit and for the most part that's been on teams, like not the best teams in terms of standings that I've been on, right?
They were mid pack or lower and that was where the focus was on. So a lot of practices, like we had an extra practice of say skill drills for the week where we're just focusing on those skills throughout the week. And then another team, usually the better teams in that league , you're, you're winning at all costs, right?
So everything is pressure is ramped up. Intensity is ramped up. You're 110%. Every drill is done to the best you can. And if, if you're not doing it right, if we're coming down a three on two and you can't get that shot off, no problem. Somebody else can take that spot from you and, you know, and, uh, be able to do your job for it.
Like there's no like waiting for, Oh, do you have the skill or not? It's got to have it, right? That's. I see those are the two biggest styles or types of that I've experienced for sure.
David: And you know what, Susan, a lot of coaches, a lot of coaches, when I was growing up, it's really all about winning, everything was about winning. And if you didn't go and have a good shift, you sat on the bench for a period. And because we need to win. And even when we got to junior, we had. we had. good sponsors and they used to walk in the dressing room and go, here's a thousand dollars for you guys tonight if you win. And you know what, it was all about winning, you know what, that's how we were ingrained. And you play all your life and that's been pushing you to win.
Yeah. Player development would be red line, blue line, red line, drills, suicide drills. But then these coaches, these players now become coaches and the only thing they've been ingrained, we have to win. We have to win. We have to coach to win. So there's more of a shift, I would say, in the last 10, 15 years or so about coaching to develop.
And you know what, one of the best guys was John Wooden, but he was way before all of us, back in the 70s. And, he was always coaching for development and his players said he never talked about winning. It was always about development and improving yourself. Like you said earlier, you wake up every day.
How am I going to make myself better today than I was yesterday?
And that's the shift, but not everyone makes that shift.
Brandon: That too, but you've seen it even a few years ago to now, even when you were playing to now, like the amount of, say even trainers, extra practices teams have now to focus on these skills is like way more than I've ever seen in my life. Even when I was growing up, coming through minor hockey, the focus was always on, yeah, maybe there's some focus on this, but mainly it's to win, right?
Because a lot of times coach's job is on the line. There's a lot of emphasis on winning. But it takes a whole organization and the team to realize like, you all got to have a common goal of what you want, right? If, you know, put that record aside and we want to develop the kids that must commit a whole plan to get the most we can to them this year. And if they're... a win for us, it would be if, you 1, 1 player at the beginning of the season, and they're at another level at the end of the season.
Right? That's a win in itself. It's depending uh, organizationally and what the goals at the beginning of the year are. Yeah,
David: And I still remember in junior. We had great junior teams, but that led to majority of us getting scholarships. That's how it worked. the better team you are, the more players are going to have a better opportunity moving on to the next level.
Whatever your level was.
Brandon: 100%. Yeah.
Susan: yeah, I think, development versus wining it at all costs is like a continuum. It's like a slider and you choose where you're going to be and I think, house league is all the way over onto the player development side and I think NHL is all the way over on the winning because there's nowhere to go I'm not trying to promote a player out of the NHL.
David: One of the coaches that I remember is back at university, and the first thing he said at our meeting was that he was going to play the best players because he wanted to win. And, that was such a different philosophy from the coach that we had the year before that played seniors first, then juniors, then sophomores, and then freshmen. And you know what, I was all excited on that. And that coach as well, called me out a couple of times when I was in my head playing, my ego. It really helped me change my game. And, that's, the kind of coach you need at some times where you need your, a boot in the pants, to wake you up, You need a boot in the pants to wake you up. But not all the time. Not to call out every little thing, right? I was all about growth. I wanted to learn and if I needed a boot in the pants, please give it to me. I need that
Brandon: I'm the same way with that. But that goes down to what I also think is very important too is not just wins and losses or that. You're a leader. You should know your team and your players that well to know what kind of player needs what type of reinforcement, right?
Like, um, some players respond well to a kick in the pants, right? If you, not doing things the right way or you need to step up, right? That's how you get the most of your players, right? Certain guys, that's where you should be. That's best thing. That's the best thing, right? obviously some that, say, don't respond well to that, so you might need positive reinforcement or one on one meetings to get the most out of them, right? So there's varies player to player, but the best coaches recognize that and do everything they can to get the most out of everybody on the team.
Or to uh, help everybody on the team, right? Yeah,
Susan: And that is definitely evolved as well I guess this continuum would be like on one side, you have a very authoritarian coach who's yelling at all the players all the time and on the other side would be someone who's very player focused, player centric and gets what the player is about and finds what works best to motivate that player.
Brandon: Yeah. 100 percent it's tough because it just again, it varies from situationally , the level you're at and the team you have and where you're at. Obviously, you know, um, so you could be that player focus coach and your team is or your players aren't listening or not or you guys are on a couple game losing streak and you need that little kick in the butt get them going but you can still be that coach so sometimes um the best coaches can kind of do both and kind of walk the line depending where they're at situationally, right?
And you see in the NHL all the time or even in minor hockey all the time. And um, but there are two different type of coaching styles that if done correctly, they both have their positives and negatives, but if done correctly, depending on the situation could work or work.
Susan: Can you think of examples of coaches that are either one or the other?
Brandon: In my junior career, my first team in Welland, my coach Chris Lukey, he was more the, you know, player coach. He played at a high level, played in the ECHL and the AHL. So he's been there, had a ton of experience, but he was again, more on that skill development side, but, he was a relational coach where, you know, wouldn't be too hard on us. It's that type of guy. You read the room and, you know, be like a player's coach. Right. And then you had St. Catherine's who still today, one of my favorite coaches, and he was more that authoritarian role. Like he knew when to be harder on guys and also when to be that player's coach.
Like he could the really well. And I want to be the best I can. I said, I don't care if I'm on the top line, if I mess up, you tell me like, you need more out of me like you tell me I'm not afraid of that.
I want to hear that right. it's uh, coach I really understood his players, right? So I'd say in the you have Jon Cooper easy example and Jim Montgomery of Boston. Both those guys are very Um, player centered, like they're player's coaches, like they understand their teams and can get their teams going, I mean, by yelling at them.
But if you see like the speeches they give just on life and everything, how they get their players going um, it's pretty cool to see. Then they always see like the Tortorella or you other hard coaches that like, they get the best of their guys through like another, like through that other uh, authoritarian role.
David: What's interesting, Brandon, is that, I was told a story just, last Friday and this player played for the Philadelphia Flyers for a certain tough coach and he was a defenseman and between the periods, he came in and the coach said, I don't think you're working hard enough. Get on the StairMaster right now.
And so he starts to take off his skates. He said, no, you leave the skates on, leave all your equipment on and get on the StairMaster. And there he is on the StairMaster with his skates, gloves, and a helmet in the intermission, working out.
Brandon: that's,
David: Cause the coach thought he wasn't working hard enough.
Can you guess who that coach was?
Brandon: Not the current coach of Philly right now? Has to, Has to be is it
David: Similar, it'd be like Torts. Um, say it again? Iron Mike
Brandon: flyers? Who's the coach? Oh my, oh, of course. Yeah, of course.
Susan: Iron Mike?
Brandon: yeah. Iron Mike Keenan. Has to be, yeah. Yeah. Some coaches will.
Yeah. Like they're
David: That's just one story. He had a whole lot of stories
Brandon: yeah. Of, yeah. of of how like he, some coaches go to an extreme, you know. play these mind games like it's just to get the most out of their guys. When... like that, you that story, we're like, I don't I don't really get the point of that.
But there's a point to a what coaches do right? That's that's pretty funny. But
David: I said to the player, I'm going to name his name. I go, what was going through your mind? what am I doing? He says, yeah, plus a whole lot more. I was going through my brain, like trade me now,
Brandon: Trade me now.
David: Trade me now.
Brandon: That's so funny.
David: All right. It was funny. It was funny when he's told it. He's with the skates on Brandon StairMaster
Brandon: game. At
intermission. Like they're trying to like, dialed in, focused, at an NHL game. And he's doing the StairMaster in his full gear. That's wild. That's wild.
Susan: That is
Brandon: And then he'll be back on the ice that period. He's back out there. And guarantee you, he probably started on that too. Yeah.
David: probably didn't do very well.
Brandon: Oh gosh. are burning. Legs are burning.
David: Yeah. Legs are really burning, right?
Brandon: Oh, yeah, after that, you're already tired enough as it is. Yeah.
Susan: So does this work? I mean I'm a house league select coach, right? I don't yell at my kids
David: does this work?
Susan: The parents would complain if I, if, and does this work?
Brandon: weird because obviously um, You know, extremes that, say, Dave, you've seen firsthand, that I've seen firsthand, or that, you know, you hear, that, I don't know if it's borderline cross the line or not, but there's things like that where there, these mind games or these situations are played out like, to, again, to send a message, to get their guys like, to better.
I don't know. Like, there are times where it's like uh, he, he like, Keenan has, I mean, how many cups does he have? Is he at least, I know he has at least one. He's got a couple, right? Through, where their, their team hates their guts, but he gets, got the most out of them. So it could work in terms of winning.
Now, if you're talking about, you know,
David: he got one with the New York Rangers.
Brandon: as people, I don't know if that works. So I don't know if it works that way.
David: know what, Susan?
Brandon: line and it's, very,
David: there was one time where we had a boy that was non focused during the dressing room before, getting ready for the game. And you know what I did, I said, I get a chair put outside the dressing room and he's going to get dressed right there. And he got dressed outside the dressing room. he wasn't, and then we brought him into the dressing room, did a pre-game, one on the ice, three games in a row. He was the MVP three games in a row that I dressed him outside. And then I said to him, I go, what are you? What's the big thing here? What are you learning? He says, I'm not with my friends. You know what I said, no, you're focused. You're focused, right? You're not focusing on telling your jokes and on all that, you're focused, and that's why, and once we put him back in the room, he went just like this, just like this again. he's a young guy, he's a young guy at the time, but, you're trying to help it.
Now, me bringing that chair out to the outside of the dressing room, the whole team knows. So it's not a message to one, it's a message to everyone, right? And the smarter ones will get it. the other ones will still learn some learning, right?
Brandon: Yeah.
David: That's a soft case on how to refocus people.
Brandon: but it could work in terms of that. Like you said, that message and, you they're all, they're like, Oh, I don't want that to happen to me. So now you're listening more, you're focusing more. And, you some kids or some players respond well to that stuff. I get.
David: yep. I had another team where we had a defenseman that, left the ice early during our hard skate. And so I went to find him after the practice and he left the rink. I called him that night, no phone call, called him the next night, no phone call. And then we had a practice. And so then he came to practice and the coach says, what are you going to do?
I said, I'm going to suspend You know it for walking out on his team. Not for me, but on the team. And are you not going to tell him before? Aren't you going to tell him before he gets dressed? No. I gotta wait till he gets on the ice.
Cause I know his parents are already gone home, right?
Brandon: yeah,
David: So he came on the ice and I told him why all the coaches were there.
And he says, how am I going to get home? My mom's left. I said, I don't know. That's not my problem. I called you every night of the week, like every night leading up to the practice. No one called me back. So you figure it out. That whole week you want to see a team skate and you suspend a guy for a week. Didn't have to put my whistle on my mouth. You're already gone. that was
Brandon: Oh, yeah, You get that message right away.
Oh, yeah
David: and the player decided never to come back anyway, so that's fine.
Susan: Oh, so I guess it worked, but not the way you intended.
David: You're trying to help the boy. sometimes you don't know how big of a stick you need to try to wake them up, and it's not about one individual, it's about the team. And sometimes the chit chat is not enough. it's not enough, and you're really trying to help them. You don't know where they're going.
You don't know what kind of bad alleys they're going down. And you're trying to say, Hey, you got to stop. You got to stop now. I'm only using the vehicle of hockey to try to help you, but I can't help you once you leave the rink and what's going on. And the rest of your life, right? and some of the kids, they need help, some guidance along the way and some need kicking the pants, in certain ways.
So still there for him. My phone was always there. Oh, he's always there ready to chat,
Brandon: all those life lessons
David: come one week. Yep. I said to him, you can come back and all you have to do is apologize to the team. Not me, just the team.
Brandon: Yeah. See, that's your fine line. I did it, but he didn't do it. He didn't do it, at all. to apologize. Yeah. Yeah.
Susan: I think one of the things you can take away from that is that, your actions have different audiences, right? You are directing this action at this player, but, and that was one audience, but there was a broader audience, which was the room, which is all the other players, and they learn things from that action as well.
Brandon: Yeah, yeah for sure.
You always do that, right? When you're always, when you're coaching one player, you know, message has to relate to everybody, right? So that's should be. Cause you're as a coach trying to set the tone and be that leader always so you can have that role. So when you make a Decision to do something like that like players want to wake up and now okay if I don't do something I'm not gonna walk all over my coach. Hammers gonna get laid down if I do something wrong or doesn't go against our team principles here, right?
And sometimes 100 percent you need that you do have control of the team for sure.
David: But the door has to always be open, to chat, to work things out. If there's some misunderstanding
Brandon: don't
David: why things are going
Brandon: go
David: that's all.
Brandon: both ways.
Susan: This is what we were talking about before, that can you coach anything in particular. I think it's a two way street. you can only offer the wisdom or the lesson and the player has to pick it up.
David: Brandon said, you got to know your player though. if you don't know the players, if you treat each player like You and how you learn and how you get motivated and what makes you tick, that doesn't work. We're all a little bit different and you have to know each and every person in that room and how they tick.
That's how you get the most out of them.
Brandon: Yeah Yeah,
Susan: Brandon, what advice do you have for grassroots hockey coaches, especially ones that are starting out like me?
Brandon: honestly, I would say the biggest thing is being authentic, right? You should not try to uh, watch other coaches. Yes, you can learn and pick up on things watching videos and talking to people, but at the end of the day, you take a little bit of everything, but be yourself and be authentic, right?
That's, as I say, is my number one piece of advice for coaches because in that way the game of hockey is just like life outside from the rink. It's the exact same thing. So being yourself and being that leader, right? You can do it. Being a coach for sure. Yeah,
David: And coaches have to learn to grow. they have to learn to grow and that's, that's a part of coaching someone may know all their hockey. Well, that's fine. But now you have to know personalities.
you have to know and understand individuals and how to work with them and each and every individual, how to work with them and actually relate to them, to motivate them, to change, to help, to pre frame them, to, to guide them as they go, that's the hard part. So if you're just coming with one set of rules, it's going to be difficult for all the ones that don't like the way that you present it to them.
Brandon: exactly And it's all, like you said, it doesn't matter the level you played, or even if at all, as you've seen, one of the best coaches in the NHL did not like, Jon Cooper, he was a lawyer before he started coaching, right? And you have a guy like Wayne Gretzky, the best player who ever played the game, coached, couldn't do it, right? Tried, but couldn't do it
David: Mm hmm.
Brandon: it's a lot that goes into it, but it's just what you said, it's growing and learning, like, how to coach, how to be personable, how to manage, how to be a leader. All those things, right? Those are the skills skills to work on. And what we said way before is knowing your team as people first, and then um, the situation of where everybody's at and how are you going to get the most out of them? Um, little things like that, I'd say, you know, is, um, contributes to starting or being a good coach.
Susan: I'm going to combine what the both of you said. you have to find your coaching style. It has to be something that is comfortable for you and has to work for you because you can't just take someone else's style, but at the same time, you need to push yourself as a coach so that you can bring out the best in your players.
And I'll give you a very personal example. I'm good at addressing the room, but I'm less good at having something to say to every single player. and so that's a work in progress for me, and I have to push myself to be better at that.
Brandon: Yeah.
David: I got challenged one time, with a bantam and AAA team we were at George Bell Arena. We didn't have a very good game. Actually, I got kicked out. And, anyways, we had a chat in the room and I said, I can tell each and every one of you where you need to improve. And of course my captain goes, okay, do it.
So I went around to each and every player and, uh, you can see them going, yep, he needs that. Yep. He needs that. Yep. He needs that. Yep. You know what? So you have to know the room. You got to know your players, right? And that's what a coach is. You got to know all your players, not just, their weaknesses and strengths, but how to chat with them, how to motivate them, how to push butt.
Brandon: And control that where like, if you get challenged by a player, you can, you know, take back control and be that leader that you are and be able to like, to clearly address situations. That's huge. Cause a lot of times losing teams or if there's toxic environments, let's say it's a lot of times when that coach has lost that room.
That's personally what I experienced, right? Is when they've lost the room or you don't have that leader coach in place. That's what can happen, right? So that's a good example.
Susan: Actually, that's something I want to pull on a little bit. Losing the room like, you gave that example earlier of, the NHL player who was sent to work out on the StairMaster in between periods. To me, that's just ridiculous. Like, why would you listen to your coach? You've just been told to do this crazy thing, but the coach still has a lot of authority that you would do this dumb thing.
Brandon: Yeah. Yeah,
David: it's very simple. We all want to play at the highest level and that coach has control of that. And this is where, this is the line, right? You don't do what the coaches want. You don't play. You don't play. It's not minor hockey. Maybe you go play for another AAA team, AA, single A, wherever. This is the pros. This is different
Brandon: Yeah, like you can be in this part of the scratches up top if you don't want to do the job that you know coach has out for you, but it's that control thing, right? We all you know, it goes down to playing the game right like that game He doesn't do that, next day, he's in the minors. And he might never see the NHL again coaches have that power to do that.
That's where it makes it tough because coaches like that know that they have that power. So they uh, if you don't agree with it, even if you're the captain of that team, you don't agree with it. You really can't say anything to that because it could happen to you and everyone wants the job
So that's where like, simple yet complex situation because, you know, they might go like, Oh, just trying to send a message to work harder.
And then now if we all work harder, then we don't have to deal with the situation again. But if you look at it in a way, you're like pretty crazy when you look at it. from an outside perspective.
Susan: Yeah, I'm just thinking about, I don't know, I'm pretty nice to my players, I'm house league select, right? So it's a completely different kettle of fish.
Brandon: Yeah.
Susan: I don't ask my players to do ridiculous things. Andmy players are also not very disciplined, right? They're, they do all sorts of things like, we'll be doing drills and I'll start goofing off in the corner playing with the pucks.
Brandon: Yeah,
David: Yeah, that's
Brandon: of the coach.
David: That's one of the ones where you send them off the ice for 10 minutes, on the bench, I had a dad come over and probably rip my head off, it's so never happened again. So I had someone off the ice. That was, pretty tough as well. and then if parents don't respond to that, then you said, you'd have a little parent-son talk. You need that balance, you need someone to step up where the kid gonna yeah I have to be accountable for something, you know something along the ways, but if they're never accountable anything It's like you don't have any leash on them where once you get to the pro not even the pros I know for even a AAA or those levels. They're like, they just bench you, and you just don't play. That is the worst feeling going.
Brandon: Yeah. Communication is key.
Susan: Mm hmm.
David: Mm
Brandon: Like, like you said, because at the higher levels, like even what you said, kids know not to do that, but one little test of that will just automatically get them thrown off the ice. Like, conversation won't even be there. Like, at that stage like, you know not to do it, but it would just be, see you later. Okay, continue. You'll be finding a new team right away. You won't be in the lineup, right? So it's uh, everything, but like you said, communication, the parent with the player still doesn't get it, then you have to hold some accountability, right? And you keep progressing after that, but now the communication is key.
David: Absolutely.
Susan: Yeah. No, you want to keep it, for me, you want to keep it fun, but it's serious fun, right?
David: Mm hmm.
Brandon: Because you're, you're, taking your personal time out there to coach, you know, the ice is not free, you know, you're still paying to play, right? So there is having fun, but you still have to follow your coach and what everybody else is doing at the same time, because you're still a team who does everything equally together. So it's that uh, that fine line of, you know, but also fun with respect to everything else.
David: When you're coaching at the house league level, which I have one of the teams, you know what? And our team last night played horrible. You know what? Not horrible, but they didn't play their best. I could have went into the dressing room and just laid it down. I wanted to, but I didn't, and we've been playing so well for, for, the whole year.
But I just went in there and pointed out a couple of good things. And left the room you know what? It's the easiest thing to do, cause majority of them all felt, we won the game, so we must've played good. And, but anyways, you know what, but when you go up a level, go up to A, AA, tri-, you can be a little bit more, you know what, we need to be better here and here, which we weren't tonight.
We got lucky winning. we're going to work on that in practice. You know what? and I think the guys would get that or the team would get that. you just call them out. You got to be truthful, right? But I think at house league level, you don't need to be. you just keep it fun.
Brandon: No, the goal there is having fun and being out there with friends, yeah, keeping it fun, cross the line, obviously, yes, but for the most part, yeah, still there to enjoy the game.
David: yeah, absolutely.
Susan: One of the things I really enjoyed about our conversation today is showing me how much influence a coach has over so much of the team. Because sometimes I feel like, like you, Dave, the kids, they go and play a game and I can't control what they've done tonight. They just did what they did. And then we'll have another practice and we'll work on it again.
So there are things I, as a coach, can control. There are things that I can't control as a coach, such as the performance on the ice. But I think what I've learned from our conversation is that there's so much more that I can control than I had previously thought.
Brandon: Yep. Okay.
David: And you know what? We still have to recognize the kids are just humans. They're not 100%. You gotta step back sometimes and go this just one of those off days. you know what, That's fine.
You know what? But you just keep moving forward. Practice hard on the things you can control. Absolutely. And you know what? Make it fun. It has to be fun. Brandon, why do you play hockey? Because
Brandon: That's why it's fun.
David: it's fun, right? That's why he plays. It's fun. If it wasn't fun, would you be there?
Brandon: Never. I'd I'd be done.
David: that'd done.
Brandon: That's the point where it felt like a job, it'd be done. It does not feel right. But we go by like we have a model that is getting 1 percent better every day right, it's on practice. As a coach, you can give the blueprint to the process that you want. You can prepare them throughout the week. You can work on many different drills to prepare them for the games. And when it's time for the game, that's your test, right? This whole week is like, to compare it to school, it's like you're studying throughout the week. And that's your test. How'd you perform?
Right. So you can break down where it went wrong, but if it is a process, so if you're getting better towards that process. That game where they didn't play like you, Dave said you can't be a hundred percent every day. So if you lose that one game or two games, but there were some positives.
The team came out and everybody's playing the best they can, we know that we have this down pat. And we might have lost that game, but we know we're right there. And that's where um, it's that's the fun part of coaching. It's just that process of getting there, I guess.
Susan: I have a saying which is practices are for coaches, games are for players.
Brandon: Yeah. Yeah.
David: That's true. It's the only time a coach can control. It's on the ice during practice.
Susan: any last thoughts, David or Brandon?
David: If you're going to be coaching, Coach because you love it. Coach because you want to offer more. Coach because you want to provide the greatest service to these kids. And always come prepared. always come prepared. There's always going to be a challenge with one or two or the whole team or whatever it is and take that challenge right on, you know what, and be that leader, stand up and try to guide through it and work through it with these kids and be the best you can be and show them what that is and yelling and screaming and barking isn't the way to do it, so you love to be a coach, then love to be coaching these kids to be the best they can be.
Absolutely. And, yeah, be prepared all the time. Brandon, what do you think?
Brandon: I know, it's just the game, but you approach it as, you know, it's like your real job that everybody has in the outside world, right? Where you come prepared every day. You come with that positive attitude every day. And at the same time kids are just human, right?
So if we're teach them to be the best players they can be and also like the people, you know, even off the ice too, you set that standard right away, that is huge. Like you're winning every day, right? And you also have to be a leader nab things in the butt when they happen and take control and hold accountability and also be able to communicate as well, right?
So it's coaching is very complex job, right? It is. It takes a lot. But when I say when you're there, at the rink that is your world, right? They're like, you are giving your all when you're on the ice because you're dealing with, you know, um, experiences that can shape a kid's career, let's say, right? Because every member is their coaches, you know, Type of leader you were, how you, got better as a player, got better as a person, right? So just giving your all and we said just being authentic and being yourself. That's it and loving it
Susan: Yeah, it's too much work if you don't love it.
Brandon: No. Yeah, exactly. It's should be
Susan: thanks for being with us today, Brandon. it was great. I really enjoyed this
Brandon: I really appreciate the opportunity. I wish I was on sooner, but schedule's been busy, but I really appreciate you guys having me on. It's awesome.
Susan: I appreciated your insights. Yeah,
David: good to see you, Brandon. And, glad you're still have all your chicklets with you. and, keep scoring, keep going well. Oh,
Brandon: Yeah, you try i'll see you definitely see you soon and in a few months here. Just want to you know, see come back and
Susan: all right.
Brandon: or so
David: Hang on, before you go, I want to show you something, right? Hang on.
Susan: Thanks for tuning in to Coaching Call. We'll back on the next one to talk more about coaching grassroots hockey. The audio podcast is available from Apple, Spotify, and other directories.
The vidcast is available on YouTube. Send us your questions in the comments below or on our website at newcoach. ca. Thanks everyone. Bye.