"Hard Work Doesn't Get You Promoted"—Career Coach Reveals Truth 💼

Kendall Berg stuck at manager level 5+ years until boss said: "Everybody loves having you on their team, but nobody likes working with you." That harsh feedback became catalyst for 5 promotions in 6 years. Hard work isn't what gets you promoted—it's the entry fee. Now TEDx speaker, executive career coach with 70% promotion rate, $25K average salary increase, 3,444 clients across 27 countries.

Introduction:
Hard work doesn't get you promoted. It's the entry fee. What actually matters? Executive presence, influence, visibility, and understanding the unspoken rules.

Kendall Berg spent 5+ years stuck doing everything right—productive, delivering results, working harder than everyone. Until her boss said: "Everybody loves having you on their team. Nobody likes working with you." That feedback was a gift. It forced her to ask: Why am I being perceived this way?

Who is Kendall Berg:
Kendall Berg is executive career coach, TEDx speaker, author of "Secrets of the Career Game." After 5+ years stuck at manager level, harsh feedback forced reevaluation. Once she figured out the real game (it's about how you make people feel, not just results), she got 5 promotions in 6 years. Worked with 3,444 clients across 27 countries, 70% promotion rate within 6 months, $25K average salary increase. Went viral (third video 4.1M views, LinkedIn 11M views), built business while keeping full-time corporate job. Her approach: be contrary, be authentic, stop being nice, start being honest.

5 KEY TAKEAWAYS:
1. Three Communication Breakdowns - (1) Don't know how to disagree productively—become combative instead of collaborative. (2) Don't care genuinely—focus on output instead of person, making interactions transactional. (3) Don't solicit feedback—pitch our perspective without asking what other person is trying to accomplish. Example: wife complains husband doesn't do dishes, husband always does trash—different priorities never discussed. In workplace: manager never asks "how can I better support you?" Soliciting feedback, caring about people, disagreeing without being defensive are skills nobody teaches.

2. CODR Framework Eliminates Excuses - C = Context (why doing this, who will see it, purpose), O = Outcome (what expecting—spreadsheet, PowerPoint, format), D = Deadline (never assign without one, most people procrastinate), R = Resources (who to ask, SOP, training manual, video). Every assignment must cover all four. When letting someone go, ask: Did I solicit feedback? Give thematic feedback? Use CODR? If yes and still underperform, wrong fit.

3. Thematic Feedback vs Nitpicky - Biggest mistake: giving one-off feedback that feels nitpicky. Report has wrong number weekly, manager says "this number wrong," employee thinks "one-off," next week different number wrong. To employee: one little thing. To manager: attention to detail problem. Attention to detail is THEME bundling symptoms. Why people get fired saying "didn't know I was underperforming"—manager gave feedback 70 times but all different things, employee thought different issues when same problem. Bundle into themes: "Your attention to detail needs work, here are three examples."

4. Executive Presence ≠ Talking More - Three things: (1) Presence & Composure—attentiveness, preparedness, emotional regulation. (2) Communication—Rule of Threes (bucket everything in threes to avoid rambling), present in terms of what THEY care about. (3) Credibility & Trust—ask good questions, do what you say. Nothing about: talk more, smile more/less, dress certain way, look certain way. Quiet people can have strong executive presence. All in your control.

5. Build Brand By Being Contrary, Not Nice - Third video 4.1M views because said "being good at job doesn't get promoted, relationships do"—people HATED it. 3 followers to 100K in 48 hours. LinkedIn video 11M views because fitted shirt, people screenshotted chest—but got 15 new clients. Marketing lesson: don't make 100% like you, make 50% hate/50% love—the 50% who loves is ideal client. Most founders too nice: "If struggling with accounting, call me" doesn't work. Better: "Average American has more debt than assets, can't cover $400 splurge—if this is you, call me." Stop being safe. AI making posts sound same—authenticity wins.

Partner Offers: Wise 👉 https://wise.prf.hn/l/QLyNwLz

Music: XMPLA https://youtu.be/p9re3wWvCLo?si=zni260AfeO5rOZvS
#KendallBerg #CareerCoach #ExecutivePresence #GetPromoted #CODRFramework #PersonalBrand #LeadershipSkills #LindaVo #InspiredBySuccess

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Because here's the truth. Hard work isn't what gets you promoted. It's the entry fee.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

And he told me point blank, he said, everybody loves having you on their team. You're so productive. And nobody likes working with you. The third video I ever posted got 4.1 million views. So I went from three followers, my husband, my mom, and my best friend, okay, to 100,000 in 48 hours. Don't be focused on making 100% kind of like you. Be focused on making 50% hate you and 50% love you.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

As an entrepreneur with a global team, one of my biggest challenges was managing international payments. I was stuck with high fees, slow transfers, and endless complications. Whether it was paying my team in the Philippines or buying products from Japan, I tried multiple banks and services like PayPal, but nothing seemed to work. Then I found WISE. The savings have been huge, and transfers that used to take days now happen in hours. It's fast, simple, and has become a vital part of my business strategy. If you're not using WISE for international payments, you're missing out on a game changer. Click on the link in the description to get started with WISE today. If you've ever thought I'm doing everything right, so why am I still stuck? This one's for you. Because here's the truth hard work isn't what gets you promoted, it's the entry fee. Today we're talking about visibility, influence, executive presence, and the unspoken rules that decide who moves up and who stays overlooked. My guest went from being stuck at manager level for years to getting five promotions in six years when she figured out what was really going on behind the scenes. She's now a TEDx speaker, executive career coach, and author of Secrets of the Career Game. And she's breaking down exactly how to advocate for yourself without being fake, build a personal brand, and stop waiting to be chosen. I'm Linda Vogue and this is inspired by success. Let's welcome to the show Kendall Berg. Welcome, Kendall. Thanks, Linda. I'm so excited to be here. Um, you spent over five years doing everything right, yet nothing moved. What was that moment you realized that hard work alone wasn't the game and that you've been playing by the wrong rules?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

I find myself very lucky in hindsight, though it didn't feel this way in the moment, uh, that I had a leader who I really respected, who I had a great relationship with. And he told me point blank, he said, everybody loves having you on their team. You're so productive, and nobody likes working with you. And it's harsh, right? And in the moment, not the best, not the most fun to hear, but very honest and very real. And I think there are multiple times over our lives where we're faced with feedback we don't necessarily agree with, whether you are a CEO raising capital, or you are a founder building a team, or you're in a sales call, or you're in your job, and you get told in some way or fashion that what you're doing is not the right thing. And I think most of us have this knee-jerk response of like, I'm gonna be defensive.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Right?

SPEAKER_00 3:10

We all think we're right, right? My spouse, he knows I'm right, right? We all do. But the reality of the situation is that every piece of feedback has some kernel of truth in how we're being perceived. And so I often say that in hindsight, this moment was a gift because I had been stuck, I had been frustrated, I didn't understand what was happening. And though the feedback was harsh and unexpected, it prompted me to step outside of myself and reevaluate what was I doing wrong? Why was I being perceived in a way that I didn't intend, and then start to build these tools. So for me, the moment that got me unstuck was the moment that I stopped thinking it was just about results and it was just about productivity, and instead started realizing that it was about how I was making people feel in that process. And that's what really switched things. And that's why I talk so often about in the corporate world, it's not just about delivering, it's about how you're making people feel. And the same is true whether you run your own business, you're starting your own creation like I did, or you're working for somebody else. Doesn't matter how good you are at the end of the day if people don't like you. And there's a little bit of truth to that.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Do they go deep into it? I would be, if it was me, I'd be like, why, what, what can I do? What did I do? You know, obviously being a bit defensive, but if you're unaware of it, like what was it that did they give you feedback on why?

SPEAKER_00 4:37

So at that time, no. But what they did is they were like, hey, there's somebody else who had a similar problem. Go meet with them. And what I found was, and this is what I coach clients to, and this is what my business came out of ultimately, was in the end, there are always the same three communication breakdowns. And I believe this applies to business, it applies to relationships, it definitely applied to me in this specific situation, which is first off, people don't know how to disagree. We walk into a situation and we think I'm right, you're wrong, and we both come at it from that perspective, and therefore we don't disagree in an effective way. We become very combative, very defensive, very argumentative. So, number one is people don't know how to disagree in a productive way. Number two is I did not care about people. That sounds awful to say, but a lot of the time when you are in transactional situations, we become very focused on the output. Right. So if you're in sales, you're very focused on closing the sale. If you are in operations, you're focused on executing the process. If you're in analytics, you're focused on getting the data. We're not thinking about the other person on the other end. We're thinking about what we have to do. And when you comment things from that perspective, it's really hard to connect with people, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Nobody's usually your results driven in your, it sounds like if you're funneling like tunnel vision and then trying to get that, you know, very productive in results. It's tunnel vision, then you don't see the surrounding outside and and how people feel. So I guess being self-aware of how you treat people while you you were getting your results, and that can apply to leadership too, because I when you you said that I can I look back and I think I do that a lot with my team, you know. So I think a lot of leaders do that.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

But yeah, keep elaborating because Yeah, no, it's great, and it's so true what you're sharing, right? A lot of the time if we if we pause, which most people don't have time to do, right? We fill our schedules to the absolute brim of busyness. We run from meeting to meeting, task to task, and we don't take the time to sit back and go, was I nice? Right? That's not always we don't always have that retrospection time. And so the second big piece is we don't care about other people. We care about results and we care about what we need to do. And then the third place where communication breaks down is that we don't solicit other people. And what I mean by that is when we pitch an idea, when we sell someone something, when we, you know, present our outcome or our result, 99% of the time we go straight to our perspective and we don't ask what the other person is trying to accomplish. And as a result of that, we have very many communication breakdowns, right? So I love to use a personal relationship for this. A lot of the time, women you'll hear complain, like, my husband doesn't do dishes, right? I hear this one all the time. My husband doesn't do the dishes, it drives me crazy. And I'm like, yes. But if you take a second and you go, what are your priorities? Like if my husband, his priority is the outside of the house. He I I've sure you guys have seen that reel where like the husband goes out and cuts a tree down because people are coming over, and the wife is like, the whole house is messy. Like, why are we cutting down the tree? They're not going in the backyard. Why are we doing this? But it's a different perspective, it's a different priority. And the same is true with everyday household chores. That same husband may say, Yeah, but you never take out the trash. I always do the trash, right? And so we don't always consider and solicit feedback, right? Hey, I need you to do this. I'd love to understand what is it you need from me? Where does that balance create? And so this, these are the three main things that break down communication: disagreeing effectively, caring genuinely about the other person and building connection, and then soliciting feedback. And within the workplace, that's soliciting feedback on how is my management style? Are you getting the support you need? Are you getting the career development you need? Do you feel like you can come to me with issues and setbacks and struggles and feel like you're going to be safe and protected in those situations, right? We don't ask these questions because again, we're go-go going towards that result. So this is really the things that came out of that feedback that I received that I later figured out and then eventually turned into my business because it is something people don't teach. Nobody teaches you how to communicate. They say, hey, watch them and you'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Yeah, that's interesting because a lot of our audiences are entrepreneurs, and I try to be a better leader as well and learn. And sometimes, you know, you need to let go of some people as well, being on the other end. You just have to let go. And that just made me reflect on you know, maybe I should have asked, how can I be better next time? Some people don't want to do that confrontation part either. Um, but for me, um to say I had to let somebody go, but I didn't give them enough warnings. But then you you know, as a leader, you gotta have empathy, and I felt bad as well, but I've wanted to support her too. So, you know, do you have any advice on how to effectively manage and lead your team so that you know they feel like you said they feel safe and they they feel like they've got a place to be productive and get along with like building a great culture, essentially. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

So what you bring up is a great point, Linda. What I will say is there is definitely a time to release people. Right. So as much as I am pro learning strong leadership and management skills, there is a time to manage somebody out. And what I always tell leaders is to do the mindset shift of like, this isn't the right fit for them, something else will be. Right. It's okay to let them go find that something else.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

But when it comes to managing well, the things most leaders don't do is one, we don't solicit feedback, which I've already touched on. We don't say, hey, how am I doing? We're very easy to go, you suck, and here's all the reasons why. We really struggle with being like, hey, how can I better support you? How can I be present for you? What do you need from me? Right. So step one is we need to solicit feedback more for ourselves. Now, there are underperforming employees who may give us feedback we don't agree with. That's fair, but soliciting it often. The second thing is when we give feedback, I always train my leaders to give thematic feedback. So a mistake a lot of people make is we give what would be considered nitpicky feedback. Hey, this report is incomplete, or hey, there was a typo in this email, or hey, you missed this call, or hey, this wasn't edited the way that I wanted it to, or hey, XYZ mistake. And what we don't do is we don't bundle things. So to the end employee, what this looks like is a one-off. So I'll give an example. Somebody runs a report for you every week and they keep making mistakes in that report. But every week you go, hey, this number was wrong. And they go, oh, that was a one-off, I'll get it fixed. And next week, that number is right, but a different number is wrong. And they go, Oh, it's a one-off, I'll get it fixed. So to the employee, it's one little thing that they're fixing. But to you, it is an issue with attention to detail. Attention to detail is the bundle. That's the theme. But when we give feedback, we tend to say, hey, this number's wrong. Hey, this number's wrong. Hey, this isn't formatted correctly. Hey, this is wrong. Instead of saying, hey, I'm noticing a trend where you continue to lack attention to detail. Here are four examples that support this feedback. Instead, we give each example as one off. And the issue with this is as the end person, they think they're getting better because they're not making the exact same mistake. And yet, as the leader, we're going, it's the same thing, it's the same problem. It's manifesting differently as a different symptom. So you're still got a cold, right? So, how do we give thematic feedback? The second reason that this is really important is because the end employee is going to digest that much better. They're gonna understand this is a real issue. So often people get fired and they go, I didn't even know I was underperforming. I hear it all the time. And I'm like, but your manager gave you feedback 70 times. They're like, Yeah, but they were all different things. I'm like, they may have been different issues, but they were the same problem. And so thematic feedback is really, really important to help underperformers become high performers. And then the last thing I'll say when it comes to managing people effectively is we don't assign work well. Now, the bigger your team, the harder this becomes. But I teach all of my people leaders that when you assign work, you assign it with the acronym CODER, C O D R. So C stands for context. Why are we doing this? What's the purpose of this? Who's going to see it? Why is it important? Who asked for it? Here's the context. O is the ideal outcome. So if you have something in your brain that you are already expecting, you might as well tell them. All the time I hear managers like, oh, I want them to come up with their own idea. And I'm like, yes, but you already had an idea in mind. So you set them up for failure unless they can read your mind, which doesn't work. So what is the outcome you're expecting? Is it a spreadsheet? Is it a PowerPoint presentation? Does it need to be formatted a certain way? Does it need to fall into a certain template? What are you looking for? The D stands for a deadline. You should never assign anything without a deadline. Now, the deadline doesn't have to be real, right? It doesn't mean that like a project is gonna fail if we don't meet that. But most people procrastinate. So if there's no deadline, we procrastinate forever and ever and it never happens. And then as the boss, you're like, did you not do that thing? And quick side note on this highly proactive people, which most entrepreneurs who are listening are, highly proactive people don't procrastinate. We get it done because we want it off our to-do list. But when we manage people, most people procrastinate. So if there's no deadline and it doesn't get done, we can't empathize because we're like, but I would have just done it. So that's why a deadline is so important. And then the R stands for resources. Who do they go to with questions? Is it you? Is it somebody else? Is there an SOP they should reference? Is there a training manual? Is there a video? Where do they go to get more information? So every time you assign work to somebody, all four of these must be covered. Now, your highly autonomous people, they probably need less detail. You may say, hey, that thing we talked about last week, I need that. You can make it into PowerPoint Excel, I don't care, but as long as I have it by Friday, we should be good. And if you have any questions, ask me. That's Coder that touched on all four things really rapidly, because maybe that person doesn't need as much hand holding. But especially with underperformers, we need to go in more detail. So when it comes to managing people, those would be the three big things that I would say help you become a better leader. But they also help you ensure that if you are gonna let somebody go, if somebody is a bad fit, you can honestly assess and say, okay, did I solicit feedback and enact it on my behalf? Yes. Did I give them thematic feedback that was clear and actionable? Yes. Did I assign work to them in a way that was easy to digest and they knew exactly what was expected of them? Yes. If they're still not meeting my expectations, then this is the wrong fit and I need to go let them find the right fit. And that gives us peace as leaders as well when we let people go so that we don't carry the guilt of, but maybe I wasn't a good enough boss. Maybe I didn't try hard enough, which is the flip side of being a good leader is that self-responsibility that can sometimes drag us down.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Yeah, speaking of that, and I I had to let somebody like if she was only casual, but um part-time, but it was just I, you know, I wanted to set her up for success, but I also felt like maybe I should have asked for more feedback because yeah, uh as a leader, I I felt you gotta be accountable because you know I believe that the everything happens. If you're a hundred percent accountable, you've got to figure it out and and solve it for next time as well. But one thing I know that I didn't ask for that feedback on how to be a better leader, and I was just giving her the flexibility and giving another person um can like she was my virtual my my assistant was overseeing her, so she was on a lower, different level, so I wouldn't have to she sh she didn't report to me essentially, and so I kept on asking my assistant how she how is this person going? Is she still making lots of mistakes? And she was constantly making mistakes as well. So you know, and then I look back and I think when I let it, I had to let her go, but then I was trying to figure before letting her go, I was trying to figure out what other roles that would be suitable for her her skills, and I didn't have that role, so um, yeah, I knew that she was set up for success because I set her up with a a full-time job, and this our role was part-time, so yeah, looking back, um, I try to think about the things that I could have done differently. I felt bad too, but yeah. Do you have any advice on that? And what I I like it was I guess the feedback is the the crucial part as well, but also putting people in the right like her strength. I knew she was intelligent, she was super intelligent, but I think the attention to detail wasn't her strength there. Yeah, so sometimes I put people in roles because you just need the re like you just need the the extra staff, and then the and I because I've trained people and using um just video trainings as well, and and the person that I trained, she's she's amazing and she's never had the experience, but but I guided her and I trained her. So I I don't know if I should I I constantly do that now. If someone hasn't got the skills necessary that I need them for that task, I will train them, you know. But do you use some tests or something to put the right people in the right skills because you you know you don't want to end up getting um somebody that's not the right fit and letting them go.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

I have kind of a contrary opinion here that I'll share. Okay, which is when I recruit, I always tell my recruiters the same thing. One, I do 15-minute interviews, people are gonna listen to this and be like, that's crazy. Studies have shown you know in the first four minutes if you're gonna hire somebody, an hour-long interview is just wasting both of your time. Because if four minutes in, you're like, I'm not gonna hire Steve. Poor Steve is now gonna spend all this time selling himself and he's not gonna understand why he didn't get the job. So I do very short interviews. They usually run 15 to 20 minutes, I'm pretty quick.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

But I always tell recruiters I'm looking for two things and two things only. I don't care about technical skill set, I don't care about your background, I don't care about what industry you're from. I care about are you hardworking, eager to learn and a good attitude? And can I talk to you and get along with you in a way where I could work with you every single day and it's not gonna drive me crazy? And that's what I look for. And the reason for this is twofold. If you are eager, if you are willing to learn, if you have a good attitude, right? And I don't mean good attitude comes in the interview and is like, I'll work a hundred hours a week for you. I just mean like has proven through their work capability and through the conversation that they're willing to really put forth effort, then there's very little thematic feedback you can give that person that they're not gonna take. Right? If their attention to detail is poor and you say, hey, your attention to detail needs work, here's some examples. A person who's eager to learn and really hardworking is going to take that feedback and become successful. And then the chemistry Pete, I had I had an executive tell me once that at some point in your leadership, chemistry becomes more important than capability. Can I get along with you and like you becomes more important than can you do the core job. Now, this is more for senior levels and for leadership positions, but I do think there's some truth to that. I think a lot of the time managers will ignore their gut for technical skills. They'll say, Oh, maybe I don't love this person, maybe they don't seem very hardworking, maybe they don't seem very eager, but they've been an assistant for 24 years, they know what they're doing, they've got this technical background. So they put them in this role and then they find they don't take feedback, they don't grow, they don't learn, they aren't easy to get along with, they're not easy to coach because they don't have these soft skill pieces. So the tactical piece of this is when I recruit, I look for eagerness to learn, hardworking, and basically chemistry. And if they fit those two things, then I can probably teach them anything. Now, there are places where this model has failed, right? And then we get to the second part, which was your question, which is okay, what do you do when somebody's not in the right fit? And we've got to move them around. So a few things. One, you need to time bound it. Some managers are too nice, they'll let this drag on for 10 years and they never fire the person. And then the next manager comes in and is like, what is this person doing here? They're terrible. And you're like, Yeah, but they've been here 10 years and nothing we can do about it now. You need to time bound it, you need to do all three of the leadership things that we talked about: coder, request feedback, um, give thematic feedback as well. Do all three of those. And then what I tell them is um I like to do a spark a type assessment is an interesting one. It won't necessarily tell you what someone is good at, but it tells you what gives them energy versus what takes away. So if they're in a role like what's it called, sorry? Spark sparkotype. It's a very interesting assessment. A friend of mine, Teresa, introduced me to it and I love it. But it's all about what builds up your energy versus what drains it. And things that drain your energy aren't necessarily the things you're bad at, but they are more exhausting. So there is a spark a type that's very detail oriented. If that's their anti, And I have them in a role that's very detail-oriented, they're not going to be happy because they're going to be really drained and tired all the time. Meanwhile, there are other roles, like the performer, that are very, I like to tell a story, I like to be the front person, I like to be in charge. They're going to be really bored in a role where they're filling out spreadsheets all day. So uh that is an assessment, like a tool that can help you kind of say, like, oh, maybe this person's not a great fit for this, or they are. I use this sometimes when I'm placing uh difficult candidates into roles. And then the other thing that I do is I ask, and I think this is where a lot of us we try to get really tactical and technical, and we don't say, What is it you think you're good at? And either A, they have really poor self-awareness and they think they're great at something that they're not great at, in which case we need to fix that. Or B, they know what they're great at and their current role doesn't play to that. And then we can focus on finding them a role that does. So these are kind of some of the ways that you can assess that and make sure that people fall into the right role. And the last thing that I'll say on this is if you are an entrepreneur, if you run a business, if you run a team, you must have processes. And I think especially entrepreneurs, we have this like do it all ourselves mindset. And we think I'll train them personally, or I'll sit with them and show them, or I do it myself, or this is something I've taken on and I just do it because it's easier. If you haven't read the EMyth, it's a fabulous book that talks about processes. It's focused primarily on franchises, but it's applicable to all businesses. The first thing I did in my business is I hired a VA to make SOPs. And I said, I'm gonna do my job for two hours. I'd like you to sit on a call, record the whole call. So I recorded it in a Zoom meeting. I said, and then I want you to turn them into documented step-by-step of everything I do. They did that, and then I said, Great, you now do all of these things you just documented. And they were like, Great. And they were awesome. That VA was with me for almost three years. She's fabulous. She then went to work for a friend of mine in his business and has been really successful there. But I was like, first things first, we got to document this. It cannot be that the information lives in my head. And then we automated what we could, we created manual processes for what we couldn't. But a lot of the time when we're having a hard time finding the right fit, it's also because we don't have processes in place, especially in small businesses, because somebody's always done it, or I've always done it, or my VA is the only person who knows how to do it. So getting that documentation and those processes in place can also be a real benefit if you're struggling to lead. One, it gets rid of everybody's excuses, but two, it makes it much faster to onboard and train people if you have to manage somebody out.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Exactly. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And um it's now any anyone that starts, I I'm I'm always telling them to already create doc like whatever role you've got, uh just create processes and track it just to make it easier for the next person. It's not like that they're gonna replace, but it's just that yeah, it's a SOP and new roles are created and new tasks and responsibilities. I think that's crucial in uh automating and just yeah, it's having those SOPs. For me, I just uh yeah, like what similar to you, I just video recorded and then did everything and then and then created a document and said this is how to do this and this is how to do that. But uh I like what your um what you did was just filming and then just I mean like just sitting on the call and doing that all and now with AI everything can be automated so much faster as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

And I would say as an entrepreneur since so much of this audience is CEOs have a tendency to be in the business instead of running it, especially when you're a founder, especially when it's your baby, your creation. And I I tell people, so I kept my corporate job. So I have been full-time in my business for six years, and I have a full-time corporate job where I support a CTO.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

So I do both. It's wild. Um, part of the reason this recording time worked so well. So for me, I was so busy that I physically could not be in the business. Right? There wasn't enough time for me to sit and do the daily tasks. It required me to run the business instead. And uh there's a famous uh small business coach that I actually had on my podcast, and he talked about this. He said, Don't quit your corporate job. So just wait. Wait till it's making enough money that it can replace your salary. Like give yourself enough time because you're forced to run the business. And it meant that I hired a salesperson six months into my business existing. I hired a VA seven months into my business existing, I hired an accountant two weeks into my business existing. She's been with me ever since, right? Because I didn't have time to do those things, I had to hire them out and stay profitable. And when you put that mindset on of like, okay, if I only had two hours a day to run my business, what would I need in place that I don't have today? It will change the way that you perceive the things you're doing. Is it worth your time? Is it valuable? And I honestly believe that's part of the reason why my company scaled so quickly, that and social media, is because we put team members in place really quickly. If you email me, you get my PR team first. If you reach out for a sales call, you go through my sales team. If you reach out for financials, or if you're a tax person, you go through my accountant. Like there's all these people who help us run the business well. And because of that, I think we kept the right people longer term and we scaled much faster. So, just really quick on that note, as we're talking about positions and leadership, make sure that you're hiring where you need it. Now, don't hire excessively and end up in the red, but hiring my my VA is offshore in the Philippines. She is $5 an hour and she's fabulous.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Yeah, I highly recommend it. Yes, me too. Like I've got the best VA and it's just such a game changer. And yeah, so do you have enough like now that since you've got all those people, does your do you hire operations manager or do you let your VA do it for you?

SPEAKER_00 28:04

So today, everybody reports to me. Um only because we're not big enough to support the manager's salary yet, right? And this is the piece of like, don't overcommit yourself to be in the rad. We don't have enough to run the operations piece. But most of them are very autonomous. So most people who work for me are either former clients of mine who went through my program and loved it so much and ended up working for me, who I knew were capable, who had already coached, who already knew all their ins and outs, or they are people who worked for me when I was in corporate almost exclusively. So I have recruited really great high performers in most of their roles. I have a couple people who work for me that I found through social media, like my accountant, my website manager. Um, but for the most part, they're all referrals or internal relationships. And I think as a result of that, we work together very well. But I also automated a lot of my onboarding, right? So when I hire a salesperson, they watch videos of how I do my sales script that I pre-recorded one time that they get. This is how you say the script, this is what you talk about, this is how you relate it to them. They watch that video. Then they get a copy of the script that they read through and they practice. Then they watch three example sales calls that we've recorded that all close so they can see how the conversation is supposed to flow. Then they record their own and they send it to me and I review it. That is their onboarding. It is all automated, start to finish. Once you send me your recording and you get a green check, you're on the phones. We're good to go. So I've also put in, because I don't have an operations manager, a lot of these processes that allow people to start quickly because we don't have that additional resource. So, some food for thought. Obviously, I'm a process person. I like everything documented and automated and easy to use. Um, but I do find that these are things that as CEOs, we get so stuck delivering to the client, whatever your client and product is, that we don't always think about how the business works. And that at some point becomes your ceiling and you can no longer grow because you've never had a salesperson and you're afraid to outsource it, or you've never had an associate helping you and you don't know how to outsource it, or you don't have an accountant. And those will hold you back at some point if you don't build them early.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Yeah, that's pretty powerful. And I I love those little advice tips. I might be doing that video sales call and sharing it too, because yeah, I think that's helpful when people watch some people learn in different ways, whether that's watching videos or reading. But I always tell like my VA if you're gonna do something that you're training, do a video of it and then do a like a screenshot of it in a JPEG image so that they could read it too, and then so that you you cater to different types of learning styles, anyway. Um you mentioned you mentioned social media presence. I want to get to that too, and I want to learn more about how you grew your brand. But um, first of all, I just want to talk about you know uh authority, visibility, and executive presence as well. So can can you can someone build influence without becoming loud or aggressive or inauthentic? And you know, how how have you succeeded in building that executive presence? Because everybody is unique in in terms of you know, I know people that are quiet and they're leaders, and then there are the loud, loud leaders. Like I've worked in corporate where you know there's really quiet CEOs that just think and like it's it wasn't a great culture, but um, there's warm leaders, you know, but still have respect. So what's your advice on having that executive presence but still being authentic to yourself and not being fake? And you know, I think it ego comes into it as well. And um yeah, what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 31:39

This is one of my favorite topics um because I always joke. I think people believe that people with good executive presence, they like come out of the womb in a three-piece suit, they know how to speak, they stand on a boardroom and they're like executive presence one-on-one. It doesn't really work that way. Most cases, executive presence is taught and learned. The problem is not very many people teach it, which is why it becomes a struggle. And so it's become kind of this vague term that people use where they're like, oh, you're so close, but you need to improve your executive presence, or yeah, you're a great person, but you need to improve this executive presence. And nobody really talks about what it means. So to me, executive presence is three things. And uh, if you're listening to this, you'll notice I use a lot of threes, quick side notes. Psychologically, three is the easiest number for people's brain to digest. Um, and when I wrote my book, Secrets of the Career Game, I sent it to my publisher for the first draft, and he sent me a note and he was laughing. He goes, Did you know you wrote 12 chapters, each with exactly three rules, each with exactly three secrets? And I was like, Nope, didn't even notice. So you'll notice I use this a lot, and this is ties into executive presence as well. So the three main components of executive presence, number one, is presence and composure. So what that means is attentiveness. Right? It's really hard to have good executive presence if I'm taking notes all the time and I'm looking over here and I'm multitasking and I'm responding to emails, and I'm over here and I'm like talking off camera to somebody. It's really hard to build strong executive presence if you're not attentive. This is true in-person or virtual, though I think it's exacerbated virtual. So being attentive, making eye contact, being present. Um, I had an executive once tell me this, I always loved it. She said, the second a speaker came into the room, I shook their hand. I would stand up from wherever I was at the table and I'd go shake their hand, say, Thank you so much for being here. I'm excited to learn from you today. And then I'd go sit. She goes, that way, if I didn't say anything the rest of the meeting, they knew I were attentive. They knew I was paying attention. And I love that. So attentiveness is really big, um, as is preparedness. So most meetings, most situations, we think that people with executive presence are just naturally gifted. They showed up and they knew exactly what they wanted to say, and they're great off the cuff, and it's great. A lot of the time, those people do a lot of prep work. So that prep work could be who's in the meeting. My favorite things to are who's in the meeting and what's important to them. If I don't know what's important to Linda, it's really hard for us to have a constructive conversation. But if I know you're trying to share success stories with entrepreneurs so they can grow their business, I'm able to share a lot more effective topics with you, right? So pre-work, who's gonna be there, what do they care about? Preparedness also involves being dressed correctly, being focused and present, not stressing about your meeting in an hour because you've already prepped for it. You're stressing about this meeting that you're in, which is where your attention should be. So a lot of presence and composure comes down to that attentiveness and that preparedness. And the last thing that goes into this is emotional regulation. When we are reactive, we become the worst versions of ourselves. And it doesn't matter how great your executive presence was that meeting, if it ends with you yelling at somebody, or it ends with you getting incredibly defensive, or it ends with you shutting down, or it ends with you storming out. It doesn't matter how great the rest of the meeting was. And so, what I tell people for emotional regulation is the best thing you can do for yourself is have a response ready when you feel yourself deregulating. Have it memorized, have it in your back pocket, be ready. So one of my favorites is hey, you guys have offered a lot of great information. I'd like to take some time to digest this. Can we connect on it again tomorrow? It keeps me from starting to get defensive. It keeps me from starting to argue. It gives me time to gather my thoughts, be prepared, be attentive, and revisit a situation, right? Have something ready to go so that it doesn't escalate. So that's presence and composure. The second piece that goes into executive presence is frankly how you communicate. So how you communicate is the rule of threes, right? Most people tend to ramble. We talk for a really long time. I'm guilty of this. But if you bucket things in threes when you're talking, you naturally give yourself a stopping point.

unknown 36:03

Right?

SPEAKER_00 36:03

I can't keep going on and give you items four, five, six, seven, and eight if I've already told you there are only three buckets. We're pretty much stuck to that, right? So it helps you organize your thoughts, it helps you stay structured, it's easier to digest, it's a great tool to use. I tell people if they feel that a topic is something they're going to ramble on, when you start to talk, say, hey, well, there's three main things that are important here. And I promise you, your brain will start to organize it into threes. And then when you hit three, you just shut up and we move on, right? So that's communication and rambling. Again, pre-work. If you don't know who's going to be in the meeting, if you don't know what they care about, it's really hard to prepare what you want to talk about. It's really hard to communicate effectively. And then making sure that you're presenting in terms of what's important to the other person. So if you've read How to Win Friends and Influence People, I think it's a very famous book. It talks a lot about how most miscommunications come down to me communicating about what I care about as opposed to what you care about. So putting things in terms of other people is really helpful. And then the last piece for executive presence is credibility and trust. So a lot of people think credibility is about proving how smart we are. Let me tell you the answer to every question in the universe. Let me prove that I thought of every scenario. Let me prove to you how great I am, how smart I am, how perfect I am. But it's not. It is about asking good questions and doing what you say you'll do. Full stop. If you say, hey, I'm gonna get this to you tomorrow and you don't get it to me tomorrow, I have lost trust and credibility in you. If you go into a meeting and you say, Oh, that looks great, and you don't ask any questions, I also lose a little bit of trust in you because I don't feel like you're paying attention or I don't feel like you're invested, right? So credibility and trust is just about asking solid questions and doing what you say you're gonna do. So if you can execute on all three of these presence and composure, how you communicate information, putting it in terms of what other people want, the rule of threes, and building that credibility and trust, your executive presence will increase. Now, what you didn't hear me say is you need to talk more. What you didn't hear me say is you need to smile more or not smile as much. What you didn't hear me say is you need to dress a certain way or have a certain hair color or look a certain way. It's not about that, though so many people think it is. It is really about these three things and they are all in our control. Now, I'm a talker. I'm gonna talk more in an average meeting. It would be more uncomfortable if I didn't for everybody involved, right? And it wouldn't show attentiveness and it wouldn't show preparedness because that's not my style. To stay authentic to myself, I have to talk. But if you're quiet, you can still be attentive, you can still be prepared, you can still be emotionally regulated, you can still communicate effectively, you can still ask great questions, and you will have strong executive presence. There's no perfect way to execute it, but if any three of these start to slip, if somebody loses trust in you, if somebody thinks you're not composed, if you're not emotionally regulated, if you don't communicate effectively, that is when the cookies crumble, and that's when people go, Oh, you know, they're good at their job, but they don't have great executive presence, they don't have a great brand, they don't have a great reputation, and that's where things fall apart.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Wow, that's very helpful, useful advice there too. And um guys, if you find this topic uh very interesting and helpful, leave a comment if you're watching on YouTube and tell us what resonated with you the most. And also if you're listening on the podcast, please do me a favor and hit that follow button. You mentioned branding, and uh I'm curious to know how you built your brand and you know what advice do you have for leaders who are trying to build their brand and be a thought leader out there in an effective way, because now social media is very competitive and there's just content everywhere. I know that we have to be in the right platforms to the right audience, but guide us on um what worked for you and how you were able to achieve and build your brand as well, and what hasn't worked.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

I'm gonna get canceled. I love this. Okay, so um I was very lucky, I'll be honest here. The third video I ever posted got 4.1 million views. So I went from three followers, my husband, my mom, and my best friend, okay, to 100,000 in 48 hours. I had a thousand people on a wait list by the end of the weekend for a product that did not exist, for a business that did not exist, for a coaching program I hadn't even thought through yet. And I did everything backwards. And I've told this story before, and I always say part of why I think my business was so successful is because I didn't have time to overthink. I just had to go do all the time. And there's a very common saying now that says, you know, make it exist first, you can make it perfect later. And that is exactly how my business was built. So when it comes to social media and building a brand, what worked for me was being contrary. And I think this makes many people uncomfortable because social media is a hive mind, and everybody either loves or everybody hates you. And social media can pick up a lot of steam in either direction. So my very first video, I thought was so obvious. I recorded it at like 2 a.m. in my pajamas with a very heavy filter and no makeup on. And I said that being good at your job does not get you promoted. Building good relationships does. And I thought everybody knows this. This is super obvious. I didn't even think it was a contrary point. I thought it was an obvious one. And that video blew up not because I had a great brand, not because people believed in me, not because I had great talking points, but because people hated it. And yet, from being hated, I got a thousand clients. So I think a lot of the time, founders, CEOs, leaders, it is very uncomfortable to put ourselves out there in a position where we're going to be disagreed with. It is much easier to give the palatable version of ourselves publicly in the hopes that people like it. Right? Let's be honest. Nobody likes to be disliked. Nobody likes hate comments, though all of mine are. And it that can work, right? Building a personal brand is really important. And over time, since then, I have built a reputation as an authority on how to get promoted, as an executive strategist, as somebody who works with CEOs and CFOs and helps them build great organizations, right? I've done this over the last six years since that initial video, but I still go viral for all the wrong reasons. So I had a video go viral on LinkedIn maybe end of November, and I've talked about this before. Uh I thought it was a great video. I'm giving very solid advice about how to get promoted and how to have conversations. Um, and the shirt that I was wearing was a very high neck, but it was very fitted. And it went viral because people were screenshotting my chest and putting it in the comments. Okay, on LinkedIn of all places. Wow. And it got 11 million views on LinkedIn, LinkedIn, which I still think is crazy, because of my shirt. Now it was beautiful, it wasn't revealing too revealing, it was covered. It was fitted, and I have admitted this in other videos. The angle was odd. So it was like a lower camera angle, which I've used many times in other videos, but because of the shirt and the angle, it does make my chest look really large. And people thought that was the most important thing they'd ever seen in the internet. So it went viral for all the wrong reasons. Now I went from 8,000 followers on LinkedIn to 24,000 in a week. Okay. Wow. I got 15 records from that video, and I bring This up, not because I'm telling you to go like be scantily clad on the internet or pick a fight with somebody, but we are so focused on being liked that we aren't always willing to be authentic. And I think if you are authentic, the right people will be attracted to your business. And um the founder of Diary of a CEO, in his book, he talks about the marketing that he ran on his first building in the UK. And he says that they put in this blue slide. And he goes, the blue slide was stupid. It was a splurge purchase. It was one of those, like, we're gonna be billionaires. We put in the blue slide. He goes, We got so much negative press over this blue slide. Like, oh, they're so lazy doing the slide at work. They're not even focused. They're not even a real marketing company. They're just using the slide. He goes, and it got us so much PR and so many press releases that every single one of our founding clients were because of the blue slide. Oh, wow. And he talks about how in marketing, don't be focused on making 100% kind of like you. Be focused on making 50% hate you and 50% love you. If you can make that, then the 50% who loves you is your ideal client. So this is a long story, but all of this to say when you're building a personal brand on the internet specifically, when you're building on social media, I would say don't be afraid to say the thing that's true to you, even if it may not land. And this happens all the time with that LinkedIn post that went viral. Um, I was invited on a podcast to talk about that specifically. And I made a response video where I screenshotted everybody in my comments with their titles and companies of employment. And I said, This is what Steve wrote on this post, this is what Gene wrote on this post, this is what John did. And I flashed their names and their titles and their places of employment and their really rude comments in the video. And I posted it on LinkedIn. And I was called to be on this podcast, and she was like, I can't believe you did that. You were so like strong and like what a comeback. And it was great. And I was like, Yeah, I cried myself to sleep every night for two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Well, why?

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Because did you get a lot of great comments? Yeah, nobody likes to be hated by the internet, it's not fun. And I said, But I wasn't gonna take that line down. I think if you have a platform, it's your responsibility to use that platform. And Steve, the CEO of whatever firm he was, who wrote that I only got promoted because I laid on my back for my executive team, deserved to have his name put on blast on the internet, in my opinion. Right. Yeah. But the way I went viral is not necessarily the way that everybody wants to, right? So what I would say is I built this brand. It's on being contrary, it's on saying the hard thing that nobody is willing to say. And it did make me very popular very quickly. And I have since layered in here's the proof points of why this works, right? I have a 70% promotion rate within six months of working with me. I have an average $25,000 increase within 12 months of working with me across my entire population. I've worked with 3,444 as of this morning clients in 27 countries, right? I have the stats to back up that what I'm saying is true, but it took time to build that authority into my brand. And so if you're listening to this and you're an entrepreneur and you're like, I'm having a really hard time doing organic marketing, I'm having a hard time building a social media following. Most of the people, when I assess their marketing, I'm like, you're being too nice. You're saying things like, if you are struggling with your accounting, call me and I'll help you fix it. You're saying things like that. That's not gonna be. Everybody says it.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Like they're not gonna say they don't think you're an authority. They don't trust you because it's not real. But if you say the average American is more in debt than they have assets and they are unable to cover a $400 squared purchase in cash, they have to put it on credit. If this is you, call me. Somebody's more likely to be like, yeah, that sucks, but that is me. And like maybe I do need to call this person. So my advice would be if you want to build a personal brand, be authentic, be true. Don't be afraid to say the thing that sounds awkward, sounds unlikable, sounds contrary. Be real. And I think people are increasingly attracted to that, especially with the introduction of AI influencers and how many people's LinkedIn posts are just Chat GPT at this point and like a simple unique thought in them. So I think if you're real, people can feel that, and that's going to help more. So long answer to your question, but that would be my advice. Is if you want to build organic marketing, you want to build social media, stop being so nice and start being honest and see if that doesn't change your authenticity and your credibility and your trust, like we were talking about with executive presence, and help you build that momentum that you were looking for rather than staying in the safe zone.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

Yes, um, when you you said that, that that resonated. One of the videos that I had um that went viral was it was controversial, and he was like one of my guests talked about AI and um a scam that happened, and everyone's like, no, that's fake, and this is like that, but it created a lot of comments, you know. So if you can have a good story, I wasn't even on the video, but he was talking about it, and it just went viral. But um, if you want to go viral, I heard Layla Homozy say you've got to have enough haters, you know, to get that love. You need that balance of haters too. So I guess building that resilient skin over time that's that helps as well. So um, yeah, that's that's great advice, and it's it's that's an interesting story. I've got to check it out. You also mentioned a quick one, oh no, we're running out of time, but um AI, the impact of AI as well on humans, and and when you mentioned LinkedIn and everyone's post sounds the same, you know, that's that is so true. Now we're we've just conditioned to know, yep, that's an AI post, there's no human in soul in that. So, you know, how do you position yourself and you know what advice do you have in this era of AI and how we can advance? Because sometimes people rely on it, but then they rely on it too much that it's less human, um, less authentic. And uh, how how can we be more competitive in this AI space?

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Yeah, I'll keep it short. I think AI is a great tool for balancing ideas off of and helping with the generation of new ideas. I do not think it is a tool for execution, especially when it comes to communication. Now, you want to use code to code generation AI, great, total use case for that. You want to use QA testing generation AI, absolutely go for it. You want to use AI to automate your processes, like we were talking about better, or create documentation automatically. Huge wins with AI. But if you're thinking about your brand as AI, we've taken it too far. So I tell people I use it to optimize my time, I use it to evaluate my business, I use it to help me optimize my programs and come up with rubrics and time uses. I use it to help me refine the way that I teach things, but I don't use it as an end consumer-facing output. And I think that's where people are starting to see this slippery slope, like AI influencers. Every time one comes up on my feet, I'm like, ugh, that's just making like nobody's skin looks like that. Nobody's hair looks like that, right? And I think we're gonna get consumer exhaustion when they don't feel that authentic connection, when you're not credible, when you're not trustworthy, when you're not a good communicator, when you're not present. Like all these things we talked about with executive presence go away with the overuse of AI. And so I think I feel on the whole right now, we're over-indexing on AI. I think there's gonna be a little bit of a rollback in the future. Don't hold me to that, but that's where I'm at with it. Is I think we right now we think it can do everything. And I think there are very specific use cases where it's incredibly beneficial. Help me plan my garden today. Great. What companion plants grow well in my state? It was awesome. But I do think if you're building something, if you're building a business, it shouldn't sound like AI to the consumer. It should sound like you, and AI can help you optimize that. I love it. It's powerful.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

Finally, where can people find you if they want to connect? Obviously on LinkedIn. And um, yeah, what key message, where can people follow you?

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Yep. So I'm that career coach everywhere: LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. Um, I have a podcast, Secrets of the Career Game, um, that you can check out if you want similar info. And I also help small business owners. I have quite a few in my program right now who are building something similar to me and they need help with how do I refine that messaging? How do I be more contrary? How do I build good leadership skills? How do I build my personal brand? And I think those types of things are really helpful to people who are ready to take their businesses to the next level. So that careercoach.net is probably the easiest place to find information on that.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

Awesome, Kendall. This has been a great conversation. I got some really fantastic tips, and I hope you guys listening got some key takeaways as well. So thank you so much for your time. It was really enjoyable. Thank you so much for having me, Linda. Bye bye.