Why Smart People With Good Jobs Still Feel Broke (Nobody Taught Us This)

You can have a good job, decent salary, everything that's supposed to mean you're doing well—and still feel broke. Not because you're irresponsible, but because no one taught you the basics. Steve Short spent 30 years leading billion-dollar corporate divisions. Mark Schlipman spent 2+ decades helping people build wealth. They saw this problem up close with their own kids and realized it wasn't just personal—it was generational. So they wrote "The Simple Road Toward Financial Freedom" to make money simple, practical, actually doable.

Introduction:

Here's what nobody tells you about money: you can have a good job, decent income, all the things that should mean you're winning—and still feel like you're falling behind.

It's not because you're bad with money. It's because nobody ever taught you the basics. Budget, save, invest, build wealth—the stuff that actually matters.

Steve Short spent 30 years leading billion-dollar corporate divisions. Mark Schlipman has spent over two decades helping people build wealth. Different paths, same frustration: watching smart people—including their own kids—struggle financially not because they lacked discipline, but because they lacked a framework.

So they teamed up and wrote "The Simple Road Toward Financial Freedom"—a book that makes money simple, practical, and actually doable for the next generation.

This conversation breaks down the 50-20-30 save-first model that flips traditional budgeting, the bucketing approach that removes financial anxiety, why automation beats willpower every time, how to teach kids delayed gratification in a world of instant everything, and the 20-to-$1-million method that shows how an entry-level salary can become retirement wealth without winning the lottery.

Who Are Steve Short & Mark Schlipman:

Steve Short spent 30 years leading billion-dollar corporate divisions, learning what works at scale in business—but watching his own kids struggle financially despite good jobs made him realize that corporate success doesn't automatically translate to personal finance literacy. Mark Schlipman has spent over 20 years as a financial advisor helping hundreds of families manage, protect, and grow their money—seeing firsthand the gap between income and wealth, between what people earn and what they keep. Together, they're Certified Financial Education Instructors through the National Financial Educators Council, and co-authors of "The Simple Road Toward Financial Freedom," a book born from the realization that an entire generation was graduating into good jobs with zero financial education, living paycheck to paycheck not because they lacked discipline, but because nobody taught them the framework.

5 KEY TAKEAWAYS:

1. The 50-20-30 Save-First Model (Not 50-30-20) - Most budgeting models put needs before savings (50% needs, 30% wants, 20% savings), which means savings happens last—if at all. Steve and Mark flip it: 50% to needs, 20% to savings FIRST, 30% to wants. This one shift changes everything because it prioritizes your future self before lifestyle creep eats the leftovers. The 20% includes employer matches and retirement contributions, so it's not always new money—but the framework gives people a target instead of guessing. And if 20% feels impossible? Start with 1%. Then 3%. Then 5%. Small steps create momentum, and momentum creates motivation. The goal isn't perfection on day one—it's having a framework that tells you when you're on track so you can actually sleep at night knowing your future is covered.

2. The Bucketing Approach Eliminates Financial Anxiety - Steve and Mark teach three buckets: Bucket 1 is emergency savings (3-6 months expenses) sitting in a savings account you can access immediately—yes, it gets eaten by inflation, but that's the price of security, like paying for insurance; Bucket 2 is mid-term money (2-5 years out) invested slightly differently than long-term; Bucket 3 is long-term retirement money (5+ years out) invested in growth vehicles like S&P 500 ETFs, index funds, stocks you won't touch for decades. The mistake most people make: putting ALL their money in Bucket 3 (exposed to market risk with no safety net) or ALL their money in Bucket 1 (no growth, pure inflation loss). The bucketing approach removes anxiety because you know exactly what each dollar's job is—emergency money stays liquid, retirement money grows long-term, and you're not gambling with rent money in the stock market or losing growth potential by keeping everything in cash.

3. Automation Over Willpower—Systems Beat Discipline - Relying on willpower to save money fails because life happens: days bleed into weeks, weeks into months, and good intentions evaporate under stress. Steve and Mark advocate automating everything: automated savings transfers the day after payday, automated investing into retirement accounts, automated bill pay. Set it up once, and your money does the right thing even when you're tired, distracted, or tempted. Example: $100 automatically moves from checking to brokerage account every payday—you never see it, so you never miss it, and six months later you have $1,200 saved without a single moment of willpower. The key insight: when you see money in your account, you feel wealthier than you are and spend accordingly. Automate it out before you see it, and your lifestyle adjusts to what's left—which is the whole point of "save first."

4. The 20-to-$1-Million Method (Time Beats Salary) - This blew Steve's daughter's mind: starting with an entry-level $50K/year job, saving 20% (including employer match), investing in S&P 500 earning historical 10% average returns, you hit $1 million in roughly 20 years—having only contributed $250K yourself. The other $750K? Compound growth and market returns. You don't need to save a million to have a million—you need time, consistency, and the discipline to let compound interest work. This demolishes the narrative that "this generation will never afford anything"—it's not about salary, it's about starting early and staying consistent. A 22-year-old making $50K who saves 20% will retire wealthier than a 35-year-old making $150K who saves nothing. Time is the multiplier most people waste waiting for perfect clarity or a bigger paycheck before starting.

5. Teaching Kids Financial Literacy Through Envelopes & Delayed Gratification - Mark's grandmother used envelopes: birthday money for each grandchild, grocery money, bills—physical cash departmentalized by purpose. He applied this to his kids: no free allowances, compensation for work done, physical cash handed over so they felt the transaction, and whatever they didn't spend went into savings. This taught them money is finite, spending has consequences, and delayed gratification compounds. Steve emphasizes delayed gratification as one of the most powerful skills in the social media era where everything feels like a "need"—teaching kids (and adults) to sleep on purchases, use the "do-over button" test (would I refund this if I could?), and distinguish wants from needs. The earlier this starts, the better—because financial habits formed at 22 stick for life, and bad habits cost decades of wealth that never compounds.

CONNECT WITH STEVE SHORT & MARK SCHLIPMAN: 📖 Book: "The Simple Road Toward Financial Freedom" (available everywhere books are sold)
🌐 Website: simpleroadbook.com
📱 Social Media: Follow on TikTok, Instagram (links on website)
🎥 Weekly 1-minute financial tips on all platforms

Partner Offers: Wise 👉 https://wise.prf.hn/l/QLyNwLz

Music Credit: XMPLA https://youtu.be/p9re3wWvCLo?si=zni260AfeO5rOZvS

#SteveShort #MarkSchlipman #50-20-30Model #SaveFirst #BucketingApproach #FinancialFreedom #AutomationOverWillpower #CompoundInterest #20ToOneMillion #DelayedGratification #FinancialLiteracy #TeachKidsMoney #StockMarketEducation #SimpleRoadBook #EmergencyFund #LindaVo #InspiredBySuccess

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Here's what nobody tells you about money. You can have a good job, a decent salary, everything that's supposed to mean you're doing well, and still feel free. It's not because you're irresponsible. It's not because you're bad with money. It's because no one ever taught you the basics.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

I don't have to save a million dollars to have a million dollars. No, you only need to invest a fraction of it to get to that million dollar mark in today's generation, especially with social media, everything is a need. Narratives on TV and art that this generation is never going to be able to afford to have a house. They're never going to be able to have kids. Mark and I constantly are like, well, let's let's talk about that a little bit more because What's the secret weapon behind every top CEO and entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_00 0:44

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SPEAKER_03 2:16

Thank you, Linda.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Appreciate it, Linda. It's great to be on.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

So doing everything right, you know, I'm just curious to know why smart people still feel broke when when you're doing everything right, and why do so many people have good jobs, the decent incomes, yet they still feel like they're falling behind?

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Yeah, it's a great question, Linda. And you know, sometimes people just don't have a they don't think they have a game plan. They're working harder, and they think that's the solution. And if you don't have a game plan, you're you're confused, you're a little bit lost. So there's a lot of people that are saving money, and then they may realize, yeah, I am on track because I have a financial plan, I've I'm following a system of savings. So I think a, I think uh lack of knowledge and confusion does not help the anxiety that people have with money. And so I think having more education on the topic uh either changes your perspective or maybe some of your life habits to get you on that road toward your personalized goals and and making sure that you've got actual steps. And I think that kind of motion in a in a plan actually creates less anxiety that there's actually a game plan in place.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Yeah, because most people don't teach, you don't get taught financial literacy in school. And it's like a lot of people you surprise because I I love, I used to I never thought twice about finance, investing, and whatnot until one book changed it for me, and that was just Rich Dad Taught Ad. And it was a simple book, and I think every school should have that curriculum, like that should be a must in every school because they don't teach that, and the education system is so outdated as well. And that's what I think people get stuck because they don't learn that. And you know, I'm passionate about constantly learning about finance, but most people they still think saving is you know is what's gonna get them. They don't understand inflation, they don't understand about investing, or they're too scared. And I think it's our upbringing, our belief systems, and what they teach us in schools. And you guys have both worked with people around money for decades. So, what's something that you see people do over and over that quietly keeps them financially stuck?

SPEAKER_02 4:24

I'd say uh, and it falls right in line with just the education piece of it, is not knowing, not having the framework to know exactly what they should be doing. And so, for with through our book, we just tried to lay out very simple um programs and processes to help people because I think a lot of people know they should budget and they know they should save. But so many of us are good when we have a goal. And one of the things that we talked about early in the book is what is your goal? What are you saving for? You know, envision what that is. So you have this goal that you're going for. And then we have a model that we call the 50-20-30 model, and it's a 50-20-30 save first model, as we call it, but it's basically 50% to needs, 20% to savings, and then 30% to your wants in life. And a lot of times it's it's um it's it's been out there. The 50-30-20 has been out there, which actually puts your needs before your savings. We thought it was better to do the save first on it. And for some people, 20% is not going to be able to, um, they're not gonna be able to do it at first. But the the main thing is it gives a framework because I think a lot of people are like, how much should I save? I know I should be saving, and they don't really have a framework. This gives you a sum, you look at your salary, how much you're bringing home, and you just put it into those numbers. And um, once you hit that savings number, we tell people all the time you should feel comfortable where you are. And that savings doesn't have to be yourself, that could be your company matching those uh pieces as well. And so once you have that framework, you can actually maybe sleep a little better at night knowing that your future self is being covered because you're setting aside a really good amount if you can hit that 20%.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Do you think saving though? Like I know that now with inflation, saving what are your thoughts on that? Because you know, the money that's in the bank as a savings is gonna be eaten away by inflation. So give me your opinion on that, because there definitely should be savings for a rainy day, for example.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

But yeah, I think I think it also uh there's a price. There is a Linda, I think you're exactly right, and there is a price to have security. You know, um having your uh a mortgage on or having your house insured with the likelihood that maybe someday it would burn to the ground. You can look at that insurance as an expense, but it's a necessary expense. And sometimes having the money in the savings for that um, you know, if you're working, you know, six to twelve months to make sure you've got that in savings in case, you know, loss of a job or disability, and it's but it's there. And so you know uh when you think of some things that could possibly go wrong, it's there, and you're exactly right. It is getting eaten up by potentially inflation, and I think that is the price to pay to have it at bay. But you know, I do see a lot of times people actually I was talking to somebody this morning, I was working out, and they seem like they're a little financially stressed, and and they're contributing to their 401ks, et cetera. And I said, Do you have six months in savings? And he says, No, because it doesn't earn any interest. It's too I I like I like to keep it invested in the stock market and um and my Roth IRA and stuff like that. I'm like, that's all good stuff. But if you knew that you had all your bills covered for 12 months or six months, would you have less stress? And he goes, Yes. And it's like a light bulb in his mind that that's what he needs to do. Now, for some people, your risk tolerance is different. If you don't have anxiety about the short-term things that could go wrong, um, you know, the pride of home ownership is expensive. Uh, a lot of things can go wrong, but uh just in life in general. So uh it is a price to pay, having money in savings. And do I think all your money should be in savings? We know we talk about it in the book. We have the bucketing approach, you know, depending on if you're retired or you're working. Uh but there's always gonna be that bucket one, we took all the savings account, that's money we can get our access to. And then bucket two is that midterm, long range, short-term range money that's like maybe two to five years that's gonna be invested, maybe a little bit different. And then that long-term money, which is traditionally for people's retirement plans, money you're not gonna need for five plus years. You know, we do reference the book, some equity strategies like uh invest in ETF or the SP 500, for example, for growth uh in US-based companies. But um, the bucketing approach seems to work really well for a lot of people. Um, but a lot of times in my situation this morning, talking to this person when I was working out, all their money was in bucket three and it was exposed to risk. They didn't have any bucket one money uh to get their hands on. So that created anxiety for that person.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Interesting. Yeah, I've um heard of having that separate bank accounts for that. As long as you simplified it by having free buckets. I've heard of people having multiple different buckets as well, and that's where some people just get freaked out and don't do it. But I think it it also takes practice as well. But a lot of people also think money problems comes from not earning enough. So where does financial literacy actually fit into that? And you know, how do what like why do people get confused and how can they overcome that as well, especially when they're not earning enough? I know people that are spending way more than they should be earning, and it's I think it's a a mindset thing too, because you know, like when you see money in the bank and you some people have the urge to spend, and even me as as a a business owner as well, when there's cash flow, I've got to condition my mind to keep that cash flow for I've got a bucket for emergencies, but also not having to spend on so much that I don't need to because I'm I'm always thinking about growth and investments, so I want to put that money to work, you know. But um there's a a few multiple different questions there. But first of all, when when people think about not earning enough, where does financial literacy actually fit into that?

SPEAKER_02 10:21

I think um you know, budgeting is where it all starts, and I know that freaks a lot of people out in terms of don't want to go budget and all this other stuff, but you do really need to have an insight as to where your money is going and um if you can follow the 50, 20, 30. And then the one part that I did leave off on that savings part is what Mark alluded to. The bucketing is so critical because um, just elaborating a little bit more on what he was saying, though that short-term money, you you don't, we don't suggest that you put it into the stock market because it could go down 25% tomorrow. And if you needed an emergency, you want to just put that in like a savings account. So that one does struggle, push up against the inflation, like you're talking about. But the bucket three, which is where most of your retirement money and all that stuff, that's five months, five years out into the future. And so, as Mark talked about, getting that invested in those um in the SP 500 international ETFs, you know, there's just a lot of options that are out there. But the key is knowing where your money's going and um being able to start early, which is one of the key goals for us, is if we can get folks right when they start their journey of their careers to where they're not used to spending a certain amount of money, that's the most critical part because that's when we all create our behaviors. And unfortunately, I was seeing it firsthand with my kids, which is one of the impetus reasons that we wrote the book, is that they were just living paycheck to paycheck. And they were luckily right out of school to where they've had maybe a raise or two, they could kind of reel it in a little bit. But if you don't know any different, why wouldn't you just live paycheck to paycheck? You know, as money goes in, it goes out. This is great. I've got money in the bank because no one taught them any other way to do it. And so that's why it's really critical. We want to get in front of folks right when they enter the workforce just to be able to get them to think about living a certain way. And then it's so powerful when they start making more money, because now you get raised, you're loose used to living a certain way, and now all of a sudden you get some raises. Maybe you can just bank all of that additional salary instead of having your expenses go up. And there's some tricks in the book we talk about just being really mindful of purchases that are only $400 a month or only $100 a month because um the marketing is really good. And I was one of those folks in the corporate world that was trying to get, you know, you try to have some good marketing out there. And sometimes $100 a month or $400 a month doesn't sound like a lot, but by the time you do it and you factor it in over five years or whatever you're financing over, it really adds up. But more importantly than that, I would argue, is that you do that once and then you kind of forget about it a couple months from now. And so something else comes around, it's only $200 a month. And so you do that, and then it's another one that's $100 a month. And the next thing you know, you've got these concurrent expenses that are just sort of piling on top of each other. And then at that point, it does get harder and harder to uh to get yourself unburied from that. But we've had a couple of videos we just posted uh on our social media recently that's talking about exactly what you're saying. It's not so much just salary, but it's how your expenses are lining up with it. Because Mark can give you countless examples that I he made me aware of of people that have really good salaries. But unfortunately, if their expenses are right in line with their salaries, you're in the same spot where you're just not saving any money.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

So just say if somebody is making a really good salary and they've just got a pay rise or whatever, do you like what are your recommendations in terms of if they've got that extra income, what should they do with it? Should they invest in a business? Like I know um should they they should be investing in themselves as well, but should they invest in the stock market? What are what are your recommendations for somebody who has that little bit extra income, they've got a high salary? Because I know that what you said, I've heard of stories of how doctors make um heaps of money, but they end up spending it all because they they're not they're not budgeting what like wisely, and they're so used to that lifestyle as well, that it just goes and it still becomes paycheck to paycheck as well.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

So how do you yeah, investing in other companies? I mean, that's I mean, that's something that you know, investing in the stock market, SP 500, you know, some of the top 500 companies in the United States, ran by some of the most brilliant CEOs, uh, is one way. Um, investing yourself in a business, a side hustle to generate money. Uh, but understand what's an expense and what's an investment. And that's important. And that's why we really want to try to keep it focused on the 20%. So if you do get a bump in pay, 20% goes to investing in something, right? So not a lot of people have the intuition or maybe the knowledge to start a business, but by all means, that would be part of future growth, would be a business that entails a whole other set of skill sets. But I tell you, Linda, the one thing that we also recommend for younger people that are just trying to find a way to save is one uh thing that we have people consider doing is, you know, get your credit card statement out for the last three or four months and go by, go through all the credit card statements and line by line, take a highlighter, and if you could push a refund on one of those or many of those items that you purchased, like a do-over button, what would it be? And so a lot of times people find out that they have like maybe uh a subscription to some type of service that they forgot to cancel, and it's uh $2.99 a month or $5 a month. Is that something you really need? And they can't, you know, they consider canceling that, get that all cleaned up. But what are those uh purchases that you know maybe we shouldn't have pushed by on the shopping cart? Um, so we also don't want to mistake in our book, because there's a lot of great books out there. We're not advocating that you should be shameful for buying a latte or getting uh toast with avocado spread on top. I mean, there's a lot of those books out there that you shouldn't be buying high, you know, fructose drinks and stuff. But we're uh taking the approach that if you're doing the hard work and you need to reward yourself, and that's where the 30% comes in, is go ahead and get that latte, and you'll actually probably taste better knowing that you're doing the savings as well and you use it as a treat. Um, but if you're trying to at least start saving, then there's gonna be some areas that you may need to cut because just a lack of income coming in. And but typically what we do see, Linda, is um more is not always better. And when people start making more money, um, their lifestyle changes a little bit and they find themselves in the same type of stressful predicament of trying to save as they were when they're making 10% less. So I think it's just a really good money habits that need to be taught early on and um followed. So then as your income grows, that 20% is still just 20% of your savings. Of your earnings, I should say.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

How often do you think and you mentioned good money habits? How often should somebody be checking the bank statements? Like I think three months is that I think too long. Ideally, should they be doing it every week or every month?

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Because if they're which bucket you're talking about the short-term bucket, like your savings?

SPEAKER_00 17:42

In general, how like when they're checking out, you know, you when you mentioned three months, they're looking at their statement after three months. You know, how often should we be checking our financial records and and our to for good habits? How often should we do that?

SPEAKER_03 17:58

Yeah, I think if people could shift the mindset that your number one business is your family, is your personal finances, that's your business. So if people would start treating their paycheck coming in as income from a the coming into a business, and so there's balance sheets with businesses. Um, you should know your numbers. I think it's important. Uh, if you're are you moving closer to your goal or further away from your goal? Uh is there leakage in your portfolio where you're taking money out on the short-term bucket that you don't need to be spending money on? But um, but also I don't, it's a tricky question, Linda. The reason why I'm kind of him hauling around here is that if you got a long-term investment game plan that's for money for the long-term that's invested in, let's say it is stocks, you know, that can make people very nervous when they see daily fluctuations of the stock market. Um, but if you know that you keep on telling yourself, this is my five-year plus money, this is my retirement money, that stocks are going to go up, stocks are going to go down. If you keep on adding to the bucket three portfolio, you're buying some sometimes you're buying low, sometimes you're buying a little bit higher, but it all averages out over the long term to get that, you know, nine to 10% average return. Not that the history will repeat itself, but it does rhyme in the future a little bit. Um, so I think I I I caution people watching stocks on a daily basis because your stomach gets involved and then your feelings take over. And when feelings take over, then that's usually when there's a derailment.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

What about when they're taking it? Oh, guess Dave?

SPEAKER_02 19:45

I was just gonna say, yeah, if if you've got your money set aside for your emergency fund, your bucket one, like we talked about, and sitting in savings accounts, you don't really need to look at it because you know it's there and it's not invested in anything to where it's gonna go down. And then to Mark's point, um, we always talk about in our presentations that this is money that's five plus years. Just have confidence in that. And then look at the history in terms of what's happened with those investments over the long haul, exactly like Mark said, you know, 9, 10% is sort of what they've historically done. But it's gonna go down. It's gonna go up. It's gonna, and it has nothing to do, you're gonna retire. And, you know, especially when we talk to the younger folks, you know, that are in their 20s, like you don't need that money for 30 years. In fact, it's sitting in an account that you you could take it out, I guess, at a penalty, but you can't take it out. So don't even look at it. It doesn't really matter because it's just gonna keep growing and growing and growing, and you're just gonna keep buying it. And you know what? If stocks go down 20%, you just got a sale. You got to buy all the exact same companies for 20% less than you did the day before.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

But I know sometimes that's easier said than done, but and when it comes to our personal statements and our daily expenditures and looking at the expenses that we need to remove off, how often should we be doing that? Because you know, investments is one, but our usual the spenditure that the income coming in and how much we're spending, you know, how yeah, should we be looking and checking our bank statements on a weekly basis or leave it to three months just so that we can pinpoint what like I I I personally think I shouldn't leave it longer than a month just to see what um in my in terms of personal, I haven't for personal my bank account, I'm probably the worst because I don't check how much I'm spending, but for business, I try to do that. Uh well I have a bookkeeper now, I try to do that every week and just clean the books every week. Um but some people leave it pretty late until they realise, oh, the the all this money has been bleeding from this subscription, for example. So, you know, what's a good idea like ideally what's a good range of time that people should be managing their finances?

SPEAKER_03 21:56

I think um the time is what a person feels comfortable with. If it's weekly, if it's monthly, whatever the rhythm is that feels right to them. But I really promote before the purchase some mental thoughts before you buy something and really tell yourself, is it a need or a want? Do I need this or do I want this? And if it's something you need, then obviously, you know, do your homework on finding a good price for it and look at being a savvy shopper and coupons, et cetera, you know, to get a good price on it. But really, it's really the front end that we find there's problems. You know, no matter how many times somebody checks their books and records, if they're overspending all the time, it's not going to change things until you change the behavior. And so it's we're finding things need to be shifted a little bit more on the behavior side of what goes in the shopping cart. And um, and keeping track of it. I mean, if you know 30% for once and you're not checking about every two or three months to see where you're spending your money at, then you don't have that mental cue in your mind of what your budget is to go spend money on fun stuff. So that then you look at just a lot of different things in your your the bills that you get from home. I mean, there there can be mistakes. I mean, there's ways to save money um by just being a good, and Steve's a lot better at this than I am, as being a savvy shopper and a consumer. He's been on the consumer side, but I mean, he's been on the uh the um, what would you say, Steve? Business side.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

So I just I'd just to add to Mark's point, I think monthly, I mean, I'd everybody's got their own cadence. I think monthly, I mean, that's what works for me. I'd I'd talk to um the younger folks that are out there, and just it's it's not that hard, really, if you just set a certain time, say the first of the month or the 15th of the month or whatever you pick it. And if you've got your um investments all set aside, your 20%, let's just say you've got that automatically taken out and going into a savings vehicle brokerage account. We talk about how to do that in the bank. Uh, we talk about that in the book. Um, and then you've got stuff through work and all that. You can let's just say on the first of the month, you can look at what you've got in your checking account. Let's just say you have a checking account and a credit card or checking and savings, whatever. And you can just sort of see what you've got in that account. Then all of a sudden you can subtract out what you owe on your credit card balance, and what you've got left over is just a raw number. And then next month you do the exact same thing. And if all of a sudden that number's the same, then you know pretty easily it takes you, you know, two minutes to figure out am I spending more than I'm bringing in? Or do I need maybe I can save a little bit more? Or ooh, shoot, last month it was $3,000. This month is $2,500. I spent $500 more than what I was planning on and monitor it or make changes to it. But that's a pretty simple. I think when people hear budgeting, they think they've got to get out, you know, spreadsheets and they need to spend five hours going over a budget. And really, you can do it pretty simply with just sort of that example I gave.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

I like that. And I'm just curious to know, you know, you mentioned you guys have both got children. How do we teach our kids, you know, what a want is versus a need is, especially you know, Gen Z, the younger generation? I know that they want things now. Like, how can we as parents teach that financial literacy to our children to make them wiser decisions? Like sometimes they just want that now. Like my son, for example, he wanted to say use all his money on a nice expensive shirt that was cool, like a hundred dollars for a shirt. I'm thinking you're only 14. So, how can I teach that financial literacy? And I told him, you don't spend more than you earn. That's you're not earning income, that's savings from Christmas money, but you can't just keep asking your parents for money either. So, how do we teach like what are the first things that we should teach them about wants and needs and how they can make them like I try to encourage you gotta try to make your money work for you? Do you really need it, for example? Things like that. But what's any secret advice that you have to help the younger generation?

SPEAKER_02 26:09

I don't know if it's super secret, but um, I think in today's generation, especially with social media, everything is a need. You know, there's there's nothing that's a one, everything is needed. Um I again, going back to the 50, 20, 30 model, that's what when my kid at 14, they probably are not working, but maybe they are. But um, when my kids started working, that was one of the first things we did was just okay, let's just put aside 20% to save and just make sure you've got that taken care of right off the start. And then that can help hopefully, I don't know if it worked, but help frame sort of that mindset in terms of um, okay, when money comes in, my the first thing I do is I go put it aside. Hopefully that helped. But um, the other thing that we really talk about is delayed gratification, which is harder and harder, especially right now with social media. And so it's a powerful thing. And we've heard from a lot of people when we do our presentations that once they pick up that delayed gratification skill, it really is powerful because they just are not doing the do-over button, like Mark mentioned earlier, because they stopped themselves from going down that path of buying something. Maybe it was on an impulse, maybe they slept on it before making the purchase. But delayed gratification is a really powerful thing if um if people can harness it. And it's another one that people don't necessarily know about, but maybe when they hear it, they go, okay, I kind of know what they're saying because there's plenty of purchases over the last year I wish I could, you know, undo.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

I like that. Um, debt. I want to talk about debt as well, because a lot of people get themselves into a lot of debt. I've been there before with business, and it can definitely feel overwhelming. So when someone feels like they're buried by debt and they're hopeless, what's the what's the first mindset shift that helps them believe that change is possible? Because you know, I know it's so easy to get buried, especially if you got credit card debt and the interest rates just keep piling every month, and you just you don't feel like you're on top, you're just floating or drowning. So that can feel really overwhelming.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

So I think the first thing, you know, not to shame people, is really take a step back, and they need to realize the past is history, you know, all the bad choices and charges and stuff is in the past, and the next best decision is your next decision on how you spend money. So learn from your past, learn from your mistakes. You want to try to get out of your situation, and you should have a game plan to get out of the debt that you want to uh you know attack first. But knowing that you're not going to repeat the pattern and you're gonna make some fundamental changes in your buying habits is is is critical because if you keep on doing the same thing over again, we all know that's insanity and it doesn't work. Uh, and more is not always the answer if you don't change the habit. So I think it's just people just forgive themselves for the past mistakes, have a game plan moving forward. Um, and there's all different ways to pay down debts. I mean, we could start with the lowest debt first, then work your way to the highest debt, then roll the payments into the next one. And I do kind of like that synergy that creates. Um, a lot of times people try to pay a little bit more on every debt that they have, which that doesn't create any real momentum. So I do like some of the different approaches of tackling the small debts as little small victories uh to get those debts paid off. Uh, but don't on the back end what you're trying to fix, keep on repeating the pattern. So you may feel good about it. But then you get to a point because we're not all, we're not about Steve and I are not talking that you should, you know, eat ramen noodles every night just to save money to pay on all your debt. But you gotta get to a nice situation where you are saving, you're servicing like your debt on your home, for example. But we're also talking about you pro you reward yourself. But you gotta stay in some, you guys have some boundaries on how you reward yourself. And I think people will have will enjoy life a little bit more with less anxiety. First of all, they have a plan, and two, they see that they're they're tackling their debt and making a difference.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

I was gonna add to that the the 50-2030 model is a goal. And we talked to a lot of people. I don't have I've got debt, I've got high rent, whatever the case may be. I'm not able to do the 50-2030. And that's fine. It's it's just that's a goal to get to. And again, that 20% includes matches from businesses and things like that. Um, but uh Mark has said this many times with some of his customers, like, okay, well, maybe 20% doesn't work. Could you do 1%? Well, yeah, I could do 1%. That's no problem. Okay, what about 5%? And then just starting with something I think we've seen too many people that just are stuck because they think that 20% is an all or nothing proposition, and it's not, it's just start. And then we've heard countless times, you know, and the same thing would go with debt. Maybe I put 1%, maybe I put 3%, 5%. And then you don't notice that you're missing that amount of money because it just automatically maybe came into your account and then immediately got automated to go pay off whatever it is or get invested. And once you can start small, it really does snowball and it really you do start to pick up some momentum, and that momentum becomes motivation for people because they're like, okay, I can do this, and they start getting the victories. And so just taking that first step can sometimes be the most important piece to it.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

I like that. It's small steps, it's it's good, it doesn't seem overwhelming. And you mentioned automation. So I'm curious to know about the automation, especially over willpower, because you talk about systems over discipline. What does why does relying on willpower fail? And what's the first thing people should automate?

SPEAKER_02 32:19

I just think day every day, days start bleeding into weeks, weeks start going into months. And if you don't, we all have good intentions to sit down and like, okay, I need to sit down and put money into my savings. And it just gets hard. And so we talk about simple frameworks in the book that once you figure out what that number is that you're going to do, maybe through your work retirement plan. And then if you have money left over from that, it's very easy to automate this. And for the listeners that maybe don't know, you could set up a brokerage account with a Fidelity or a Schwa, whatever, and set it up to where, say it's $100 a paycheck, and you're you get paid on the 15th and the 30th, or whatever days those are, that you just automate it to whatever the 16th and the 31st or whatever, you know, the next day. So when that money comes into the account, you never really see it, and it's immediately out of there and doing, you know, being put to use. It just, I think we all have a tendency to see when we see things, um, we kind of can give ourselves a false sense of security because there's money in the bank account, but maybe we hadn't handled the other stuff. Unless we've done the 20% like we talked about. And if it is, then you know what? We're all for going to go have that latte or go on a trip or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Do you believe in like that's just the dollar cost averaging DCA into your investments and doing that each time you you can afford it?

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Yeah, we've got actually in the we've got in the book, Steve will talk about a case study that we did uh that's done by Charles Schwab, actually. And it's interesting. Um, well, Steve, you go into that one.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

You were doing great.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

I was doing great. Basically, yeah, it basically was stealing Steve's thunder there. No, no, and I realized it when I started talking.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

So but um, yeah, it's basically just going into that, Linda, is just that they looked at folks that um if you timed it perfectly to where you bought at the lowest point in the the year for the S P 500 as an example, or you bought at the worst time of the year, the highest point of it, or you just did it every month, or you sat on the sidelines because you knew the stock market was gonna crash and you're just waiting for the stock market to crash. That one clearly was the worst of the group. But all the other ones were pretty close. So the takeaway that we highlight in the book is don't try to time it. Just automate the dollar to your point, the dollar cost averaging is gonna you know work into your favor. Sometimes you're gonna buy a little bit higher, sometimes you're gonna buy a little bit lower. But in 30 years from now, when you need your money in retirement, you're not gonna notice the difference between you'll just be thankful that you did the investing.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

I like that. That's powerful. I want to talk about the gener Z narrative, because things are so expensive, especially in Australia where house prices are just ridiculous, even in America as well. And people think they can't afford a home for their families. Do you agree? Like is this a deal a bigger issue? Now I see on social media instead of just in vet like buying a home which they can't afford, the rent is they just rent and then they'd rather just spend the money and travel and enjoy life as well. So you know, things have changed from back in the days where interest rates were so much higher compared to now and the affordability of homes. So, you know, what does building wealth look like now for this generation?

SPEAKER_02 35:46

I I it it's it's funny that you're describing what's happening in Australia as exactly the same thing happening here and the narratives on TV and um art that this generation is never going to be able to afford to have a house or never gonna be able to have kids afford to have kids. And I know it's a little bit different, but Mark and I constantly are like, well, let's let's talk about that a little bit more. Because if we're not teaching, we're teaching kids science and algebra and all these other things, but we're not teaching any personal finance. So as we talked about earlier, they're they're immediately starting out with no emergency fund. Maybe they put some money into the stock market, but then they lose their job and then they pull it out of the stock market because they didn't have the emergency fund and they have living paycheck to paycheck. That's starts a recipe that it does make it very hard to buy a house and have kids. But we're hoping that we can intersect the 20-year-olds now before those habits really get in green, to where they can start making some moves and be able to afford homes. Is it different? It definitely is, but we're hopeful that there's um things that they can do now that will still allow them to be able to get the homes, be able to have kids and do the things that the generation prior was able to do.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

My friend just um I just remembered that my friend also she's teaching her kids young as well. So she gives them an allowance and they're under 10. Oh, one's probably uh 13, but that she gives them an allowance and she makes them have a bucket. So she has one for charity. Um I don't know, like she has a few buckets and makes them do that. And I think that's such a smart idea because now that you mention the the when you mentioned the 50-20-30 rule, it's such a great idea to teach our kids early. And I haven't done that with my son yet, but I'm thinking maybe I should do that because I just give him money. Every time you ask for money for food, that's all right, and I'd tell him to save. But maybe I should teach him financially as well to to prepare for the future at an early age. This is your allowance, you know, this is how much you should be uh putting aside for savings, this is how much you should be putting for investments, and and then these three buckets I think should be enough. Is that and and and things that you want because they're a child. So what what are your thoughts on that? Is that something that every parent should do?

SPEAKER_02 38:15

Mark, what do you think? You talk about how old you're gonna do, I know when we were writing the book, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:21

We talk about in the book uh my it still works this day, but also just departmentalizing your money in your mind. That's what we talk about, the buckets. I mean, there's really there's really no buckets, right? It's just what just you're thinking in buckets. So, and I we came up with a bucketing, at least I did, many years ago, because it reminded me of my grandmother had envelopes, and in her envelopes, she had birthday money for each grandchild, and then she departmentalized grocery money every week in envelopes. And um, so my kids, there really wasn't an allowance. It was like it was they're getting uh compensated for doing work. There was really no free money um per se. But I would hand them the physical money, and then um whatever they did not spend, they realized that it went into their savings. And so giving them physical cash to go pay for things that they think they need, uh sometimes they turned out that they really didn't want to turn over that cash to get what they need. Now they still bought their shoes and stuff like that, but it really got them thinking of themselves to be very disciplined with money. And uh my son is extremely frugal. Um, maybe I ruined him a little bit, but uh financier. My daughter's got a little bit of a looser leash and uh can justify a lot of things too. But um, but I think they kind of work because I I saw a trend. I mean, you know, people are like, well, I don't want to talk money with my kids because I don't want them, for whatever reason, to have to worry about it or whatever. But I think talking about money is is it can be healthy. And I grew up in maybe it wasn't something we always talked about because maybe there's lack of it. I don't know. But um I think I think it's good that there's not just this endless well of money that they think they come to mom and dad and get. So we all raise kids different, every kid's different, but I know that giving my kids money that they earned early, it gives us a chance to see what their intuition is to do with money. I mean, are they just blowing it? Uh, are they blowing more money than they need to? I'd rather correct it early than wait until they're 20s when they're out of the house and they are taught algebra and no budgeting.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

Maybe even adding on to it, we've heard from the book, and we've seen it in reviews from people that we don't even know that have said, and this probably isn't a surprise now that we once we started seeing these, that if this generation doesn't know how to handle personal finances, guess what? Our generation never learned how to handle it either. And so either you kind of learned it on your own, or maybe you had a mentor that get that taught you that stuff. And so the next generation is not being taught personal finance skills because the older generation didn't know how to do it. And so a lot of people have commented in our book that this was great because it was a cheat sheet for me to be able to go through and talk to my kids. So the analogy I always use is I I know how to drive, but I didn't know how to teach my kids how to drive without looking like an idiot in front of my kids. You know, do I take them out on the street? Do I do it on a parking lot? Like, I don't know how to start to teach them how to drive. And so that's the same thing with personal finances. I think there's a lot of parents that don't aren't educated as much as they'd like to be, and they don't want to start having conversations with their kids on it because their kids might be like, Do you know what you're talking about with this? And so the book is is helpful to be able to just like, oh yeah, this is the thing I need to talk about first. I do need to start in a parking lot with my kid to get them used to a gas and and you know, uh break versus going out on the highway. And and so if that's one of the things that's helped, that was sort of, I guess, a surprise to Mark and me is that that there's a generation that's using this as kind of a guidebook to help teach it to their kids.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

If there was one belief, like I want to know about um the belief that needs to go. So if there's if you could change one belief that people have about money, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03 42:27

I honestly think any problem in life that money can fix is not a problem. And so I think if you have the ability to make money, how you save it, all that kind of stuff, it's it's the big stuff of the problem. It's the the the illnesses that come up, you know, premature deaths, that's the big stuff. And so, I mean, money is a tool. Money is a tool that can be used. Does it bring happiness? I think there's a there's a point where it brings comfort and security. And Harvard, take it for whatever it is, not to put words in Harvard's mouth, but they did a 30-year study on what if money does buy happiness, and it was determined that a huge amount of happiness in US dollars, from $50,000 to $70,000, the the level of happiness is tremendous at $70,000. Anything beyond $70,000, uh, marginal happiness. And then there's a point where it actually goes the other direction of having too much money and more responsibility starts creating unhappiness again. So if you're centered around money as being your happiness, um, the studies will show you that it's not much. So the reason why they thought $70,000 is that a lot of individuals can make $70,000 and still put a little bit away for college, have a little bit of savings, or a little bit of money away for retirement, I'm sorry, a little bit of savings and pay the Bills. And they can successfully pay all their bills and save a little bit. Uh the level of happiness was tremendous.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

Yeah, that's powerful.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

That's a great, that's a great one. I'd add this the the understanding the stock market is something, and not understanding it super detailed, but just there's there's too many conversations that I'm in. I'm not even a financial advisor. I can't imagine Mark, in terms of like it's a gamble. We even talk about in the book. I don't want to invest in the stock market. It's just a gamble. And gambling to me is one person wins, one person loses. And that's not what this is when we talk about investing in a an ETF of the S P 500. You're in Amazon, you're in Microsoft, you're in all these huge companies that are there. Are they going to have bumps along the road? Absolutely. But you know, is the chance I think there's so many people that are afraid to invest in, say, the SP 500 because they think their money could go to zero. And it just hasn't yet. Could it? I mean, we'd all be in a lot of trouble if Apple went bankrupt. You know, there's no more iPhones and there's no more all this other stuff. And so just people getting educated on kind of what they're purchasing and what the stock market's all about is so powerful because people sit on the sidelines and then they they aren't able to do some of the things that they'd like to because they're not able to get nine or 10% returns. The SP 500 is averaged 10% return over the last 50 years. Nothing is guaranteed, like Mark said. But if you really want to be able to find your financial freedom, it's really you've got to put some money in the stock market more than likely, and just watch that grow over time. The one of the quick things that that's in the book, too, is we have this what we call $20 to $1 million method, which is really just putting the 20% aside. And we have an example in there that shows the power of time that somebody, and this was an example I use with my daughter, just an entry-level job, $50,000 a year US, setting aside 20% with company match and all that, you can get to a million dollars in about 20 years if the stock market returns its historical average of 10%, which it's done. Um, but that and you'll have a million dollars, and you would have contributed $250,000 in the stock market and company matches and things like that are $750,000. Well, that blows a lot of people's mind. It blew my daughter's mind. She's like, I don't have to save a million dollars to have a million dollars. No, you only need to invest a fraction of it to get to that million dollar mark. And that's somebody that's not making $400,000 a year, three, you know, it's an entry-level job, um, just setting aside that money. It's just that power of time on their hands.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Yeah, that's there's just so many tools of investment. Like there's like there's gold, there's stocks, there's property, there's businesses, there's just so much out there, and I think so many people just get overwhelmed with it. So doing something simple like that. I don't know. I did read when you said that and it came to mind. I used to read that and agree with that too. But then I read another book by MJ DiMarco, and he it's a book, I think Millionaire Fast Lane, I believe that was one. I've read all these books, but he did mention that the the myth behind that as well, because they don't talk about inflation though. You know, you might get to that point, but that the inflation is left out as well. But overall, I still agree that just you know, it's better to invest in that um what you said, the SP 500 or an ETF, and as long as it has an average um of 10% or whatever, it's just gonna definitely beat the banks, for example.

SPEAKER_02 47:43

But uh very true.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

Do you guys recommend any other investment strategies as well?

SPEAKER_01 47:50

No.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

No personal advice, Mark.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

No personal advice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

I keep it kind of general here.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:00

Yeah, I think I mean we really just focus it because that one's so easy to, you know, we didn't really get into the details. We really talk about uh the buckets and kind of your mindset of how you should think about, you know, safe stuff versus stuff that's a little bit more, I don't even want to call it speculative because over a 10-year time period, you know, you'd hope the stock market's gonna go up.

SPEAKER_03 48:24

But we also want Linda, we want to minimize excuses. So a lot of times people get so hung up on what to put their money in, they do nothing. Just put it in, save it. I mean, if you save it, you've done the hard work. Allocating it is an art that needs some little education, maybe some guidance. Steve does not need a financial advisor. I told that to him I first met him. But some people may need some guidance. There's a lot of great resources out there. Um, and then when life gets more complicated, you might need somebody to help you out. But all in all, everyone can get started. And we we lay it out in the book. Very easy processes, how to open up a brokerage account, how to invest, etc. And we don't like to keep it complicated because it doesn't need to be. And we want to minimize the excuses of people having excuse not to get started.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

I like that. That's powerful. Uh, if someone listening did just one simple thing this week to move towards financial freedom, what should it be?

SPEAKER_03 49:28

If you don't have a brokerage account, open one up.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

Steve, do you have any other one simple?

SPEAKER_02 49:34

That's the best line. No, I I would say uh That's pretty good. Yeah, just start taking that first step, all the stuff we've been talking about. Because I think people do think it's and especially now you talk about the younger generation. I you know, I talked to not to bring up my kids, but my kids' friends and all that stuff are like, where do you get your advice? TikTok. I get it on TikTok. And so they get bombarded with 20 different you know strategies on savings, and just just take the first step and do some of the stuff that we're talking about here. Open a brokerage account, automate it toward just coming out with your paycheck, and next thing you know, um, you're gonna have some good money in there.

SPEAKER_03 50:11

Yep, very good.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Awesome, guys. This has been a great conversation. It has. Um, if there's any anything I've left out, any key messages that you want to share, I would find you.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

Yeah, thanks, Linda, for having us on. We um enjoyed the conversation a lot. I know I'm speaking for Mark, but um the they can our book is The Simple Road Toward Financial Freedom. You can get it at all the usual spots. Um, we on our website, which is simpleroadbook.com, it actually has links to our social media. Mark and I are pretty active in terms of we've got a video just about every single week that's just a a quick little one minute or less video that just talks about something from our book. Sometimes we don't even talk about stuff from the book, but just financial tips. And so we've got um a lot of people that are interacting with the video saying, you know, hey, this was really helpful. I didn't think about that. So that's something they could go to simpleroadbook.com. We'd love to have people to follow us on TikTok and Instagram and all our socials are on there, and then um pick up the book for the full for the full roadmap.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

Awesome. Thanks, guys. Thank you so much for your time.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

Thanks, Linda.