The Real Stages of Filmmaking with Ace Anderson and Randolph Buffington

We speak during the production of a documentary in Ohio and how documentary filmmaking isn't what it seems on social media.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello, and thank you for tuning in to another episode of Directing Documentaries. I almost got the monitor. Anyway, so um, we're out here in Ohio, we're filming a documentary, uh, we had an off day, and um me and the boys uh want to just have a conversation just about what it's like being a filmmaker at different stages. Um I think it's something that it'll really help a lot of people. I have a lot to say. Ace has a lot to say, Randolph has a lot to say. So um, Randolph, for people that like don't know, tell them about the project that we're doing. Or tell, you know, just tell us how you got the project and what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Yeah, the whole shebang. So what's happening? Uh, Randolph Buffington, documentary filmmaker. Uh, brand new to this thing. I just started, and prior to this, I was a sports reporter for like seven, eight years. I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. And uh really got my start within that intersection of sports and culture was really my jam. But I could really could care less about who won or lost whatever game. I always cared about why they were playing in the first place. That was really my thing. Over time, uh, you know, jobs got good to me. I was having I was having a lot of fun with the role. Sports is a very cool deal when things are rolling, but like it's fickle too. Like, jobs are few and far in between sometimes. Everybody's talented when you get to a certain level, so it's like, bro, it's only so many jobs. Uh and it's really like a man, it's a rap race for sure. Um shoot, two years ago I got laid off on a road that I thought was my dream job for real. And I was like, damn, it really was a gut punch. Uh I was going to either move to like LA or New York. One of the two, I was trying to make a decision, and uh they pulled the rug from underneath me, and I'm like, damn, bro, the storytelling can't stop here. Like, I gotta make a decision. At that point, I had uh some money in my pocket, enough to invest in a camera. So that's what I did, man. I'm on YouTube every day looking up what it should be, the FX3, the FX30, the FX6. Oh, that's that's a little bit too much money. You know what I mean? But we went with the FX3 and uh really invested. No, I I copped the FX3 and I copped this course uh called The Art of Documentary. And uh, man, shout out to shout out to Art of Documentary, man. It was a game changer for me. So many like-minded filmmakers within the crew, and it really was just for me to exercise my muscles and be around folks that are doing this thing right. I didn't have a community of folks that I knew that were filmmakers. I knew a lot of folks on the sports side, sports journalists, journalists, period, but not too many people that tapped into film. And I'm like, I gotta find my tribe, you know, um, if I if I'm doing it. So took the bet, took the leap, jumped off the porch, and the first thing I did was get in touch with my cousin Ace, man. I went down to New York, uh, out in Brooklyn, and we started shooting this project called, damn, I don't even know what it was called.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

You gotta go on because we didn't, I didn't even know you existed and was a filmmaker. I didn't know I had family in film in the first year. Yeah, bro. That's the crazy part.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

I'll let you get into all of that. But yeah, it's it's been a ride, really like two years. And um to fast forward to now, I am uh, man, cooking up a project. Uh I am fortunate enough to be the doc the director for this film we're working on now. Um excited about it, man. Here in my home state, cooking up stories about black folks is all I want to do. I just want to tell stories that make people feel something, uh, for sure. Man, so this this project I'm working on now is called uh claiming space. We're focusing on three black subjects here in rural Ohio, Southern Appalachia, uh or Southern Ohio and Appalachia. Uh really, really dope deals uh with all three of them. Ah man, I can I got I can go all day about the story.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

So so so like so like talk about talk about how the project came about, like, and talk about like how you because we were talking in the kitchen yesterday, talk about how you didn't think that you could get it. Yeah, and like how just that all worked out.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Yeah, bro, it was crazy. So again, I'm new to this.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Uh how long have you been doing filmmaking?

SPEAKER_00 4:32

A year and some change. Okay. Two years, tops. You feel me? Just got the FX3. I started two weeks ago. Really? Oh yeah. Uh like literally a year, bro, like a year. Okay. Um, so the first things that I started making were portraits of everyday people. Uh, folks that I had access to. A lot of a lot of documentary is just access. So I started with my family and friends, folks that I knew closely, intimately, and I'm like, all right, man, let me just spend a half day with you, see what we can cook up. It was a whole lot of that. Out of that birthed my first short film. The T's getting to me. Um it's called Stack. I dated on my cousin. He's a pastor, he's a pastor and a bricklayer. I caught up with him over the course of Father's Day weekend, just a little over 24 hours, and it was four art of documentary, too. So they have a competition, it's called the one-day dot competition. Right. Where you shoot a documentary in 24 hours and you have a couple weeks' time to chop it up. So it was a challenge, and it was for me just a good way for me to exercise my muscles. Again, the way that I position myself and shooting it, I really only had like 10 days to chop it. So I shot it, I hit up my cousin. I didn't even do, I didn't do a pre-interview or nothing. I hit up cuz, I'm like, yo, man, I'm working on something. I want to follow you around for a day. What's your schedule look like? Uh he let me know that he'd be working on Father's Day or that weekend, and you know, he's down. Just, you know, here's the address to the spot, I'll see you there. It was as simple as that. My cousins are natural on camera. And really the film is really just about we really get to watch a man practice what he preaches in real time. For real, for real. It's about fatherhood, faith, and really just the work in between. You feel me? Uh so it was a whole lot of that. Um, whole lot of that. And uh man, it was my baby for a long time. I spent hours, days in front of that damn laptop chopping stuff up. Everything on screen was me. I wrote, shot, edited, you name it, was it was all your boy. Only thing I didn't do was color. And shout out to Joe Dunn, who is in art of documentary as well. Again, so many great folks in that group, man. But he's who I leaned on to really pop, make those colors pop. Uh so came when it came to Stack, dropped it again. That was my baby. And that's what that's my lane. Like, I love like verite, uh, which means just watching life unfold as it happens. Like, here's a way, there are a bunch of ways to do docs, but I dig getting out, moving and grooving, man. Let's get out in the field and catch some action. Like, we can easily just sit somebody down, frame up a nice little uh, you know, portrait and have your composition there. But F that, bro, let's get outside. You know what I mean? Let's get outside. Let's get outside all day long. That's my jam. So it's been a whole lot of that for me. Uh Stack was really the start. And, you know, it's it's it's been trending upward, man. I've been fortunate enough that Stack is leading to some more work. This was uh a grant that I applied for with uh with a company. Um I can't get into all the details. I don't really I don't want to get in trouble. But what I will say is I applied for the grant. And uh it's with the series, uh, they've been doing it for some time now for a few seasons, and they were looking for stories specifically out of the Appalachian region. And I'm like, I I don't know nothing about Appalachian, but I know the further south you go in Ohio, you can hit it. So I'm like, all right, who do I know there? Okay, I'm in Athens, Ohio. My sister went to Ohio University, which is in this town, you know what I mean? So I hit her up and she's like, Yeah, I had actually had um my old multiculture director, she's actually from that area, had roots there. And whenever I do a story, I try to find a black perspective at all times. So in my mind, I'm like, all right, I don't know nothing about Appalachia, but I wonder what the black folks are doing out there. You feel me? That was that was where my head went into instantly. And uh yeah, man, I had a conversation with uh one of our subjects. She introduced me to two more. And as I'm having these pre-interview conversations, I'm like, man, it's a I got a lot here. There's a there's definitely something here story-wise, and I don't want to break it up. I think they're all moving toward one direction. So I'm like, let's keep it going, man. I I uh came up with a picture, got in my pit jack bag, I've uh I've um went on Canva and started sweating and uh yeah, got to it. I was out in LA hella networking during like NBA All-Star Weekend. And then they called me, like they took, they emailed me. Uh I was like, hey, do you have a proof of concept for this? I was like, yeah, I was actually working on that. I'll get it to you next week. They're like, yeah, actually, we need that by like Monday. It was Thursday. I'm like, damn, all right. Uh I called my subject, I'm like, hey man, what you got going on tomorrow? He's like, it's actually my off day. Perfect. I'll be right there. I left LA, flew to Cleveland. The next day, like a you know, red-off flight uh shit, touchdown, drove from Cleveland to Athens, which is like a four-hour drive, spent three hours with him, chopped up a nice little vertex scene, and it was enough to uh, you know, yeah, bake the cake.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Hell yeah. You got the bread. And see, so so I wanted to I wanted to talk like about you know, you didn't think that you could get it, but you tried.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah, you got to, bro.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

And it was good.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Okay, bro, it was that. So all I do, I spend every waking hour on Vimeo, YouTube, scrolling through short films from dope filmmakers, one of which was uh was a really uh dope filmmaker named Crystal. I don't know about your last name, but she made a film called Edgecomb. It goes crazy. Check it out. Um Edgecomb. Edgecomb? Yeah, Edgecomb. She's made a number of other ones as well. Uh I could spell her last name, I just can't say it. Uh K-A-Y-I-Z-A. Um that one. But she gets busy. Um and so she hit me up. I I reached out to her uh initially, like, yo, I really dug your project. I just, you know, finished my first short film myself. I would love some feedback if you're open to it. Well, movement band mock. Email is full of code emails, you know what I mean? Just from people that's good people. And thankfully she hit me back and was like, yo, like, you know, I really enjoyed Stack, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Had a great conversation. And uh maybe a few weeks later, she had hit me up and said, Hey, this organization has this uh this uh grant thing lined up that I think you might be prepared for. I'm like, okay, this looks dope. Within the requirements, though, they had like, it was in Ohio, but you had to be. I think they wanted filmmakers from Appalachia. And I'm like, fuck, man, I ain't about to, I ain't about to put in all this hard work for them to tell me, sorry, Randolph, you were born in the wrong place. So I'm like, bump it, bro. I ain't really about to do it. And I kept looking at that email and I kept, you know, I'm not doing nothing at the crib, mind you. I was I was laid off. I've been trying to position myself and been working on my own stuff. The My People Project has been my baby this whole time. It's a series I've been developing on my own, you know. It's a labor of love, you know what I mean? A whole lot of not getting no bread. If I'm not doing that, I'm Uber driving, I'm Live Driving, I'm substitute teaching, gig work, hella gig work is was the name of the game for me. So I'm like, shit, why not, man? You ain't doing nothing else. You know what I'm saying? You got some kids you gotta tell to sit down tomorrow. You feel me? I might as well. Um, so why not take the bet? So yeah, uh, that's what I did. Came up with the pitch deck after looking at my screen for some time and uh just did it. You gotta say fuck it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

You do. So, real quick, I wanna get I wanna get to talking to you about about your stuff, Ace, but this is a good opportunity for me to say it's like if you wouldn't have made stack, yeah, and then you wouldn't have reached out to her, none of us three would be here.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

That's a fact. Yeah, that's a fact. Yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

It's all about being prepared for when luck and opportunity intersect.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Get ready so you ain't gotta be ready. Hello. You know what I mean? All day long, man. Yeah, that's that's that's really what it was. And just jumping. I've always been, I think I think I've always had it in me, though, to just I feel confident in my work, for sure. And it's just a I'm heavy on the like YOLO, heavy on the anything can happen, a lot can change in a year. That's my type of you know, half-lassed empty sort of thing. You know what I mean? Um, I try to like present that uh, yeah, put that energy out into the universe, man, because I think it circles back around. But because honestly, like a crystal, she's been in a place like me before. She's been a newbie trying to figure out, you know, you know, get her legs underneath her and all of that carrying on. I think we have to lean into that. Because I come from a school, I go to like mad conferences, but when I was a sports reporter, I'm eager, bro. I'm walking in there with my stool on and you know walking around. I had a hot topic and shit. I had a hot top trying to like, you know, talk to I see everybody that was on Sports Center and stuff like that, and I'm not afraid at all. I'm like, hey man, I got a reel, I got this, I got this, I would love to show it to you. Just eager and hungry for like, you know, not even an opportunity, I would say, at that time, but just wanting to get better. Like a like a yearning, uh, a thirst and a hunger to get better. Oh, yeah. Uh for sure. And I think people respect that. You feel me? Um, and everybody's been in that place before. A lot of people recognize hustle. Uh so for those of you out there that that uh have the desire to do something nonsense, like, man, just get after it. Reach out to people heavy because you never know what it can lead to. Like, she didn't have to hit me up. But we just got off the phone call with somebody that I met at one of these conferences and one of these. NABJs everything trickles down, bro. It's all a full circle deal, man. Just keep keep hitting people up and hit them up again because they just missed your email, is all it ain't, man. Ain't nobody that busy. You know what I'm saying? It's a whole lot of that.

unknown 14:27

A whole lot of that.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

For sure. I love that. I want to talk about that more later. But I want to talk about you Ace and like how you got into filmmaking and just, you know, your story.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Well, um, my name is Ace Kane. Um, I actually started off acting. Um and, you know, I was training with Mark John Jeffries Acting Academy and went from that to Tracy Moore in Brooklyn, New York. I'm from the New York area, so um, you know, it's cameras everywhere out there. Somebody's always doing something, there's always a video. And, you know, I had actually, while I was acting, I was in a in a space where I was tired of getting typecasted, and it really pissed me off that every part that I got was either the drug dealer, the dude who was a doctor went to selling drugs, it always was in the same category. Yeah. So that kind of pushed me into, while I was in the acting classes, getting into a space where, okay, how do I create my own film? How do I create, in essence, funny, my own space to try and get into this entertainment business. Like me with a camera. Funny enough, I had a camera when I was in high school, and I didn't, I used to carry a camcorder with me all the time. And I didn't think that I would be in this space. I always looked at being in front of the camera. I never really thought about being behind the camera until that happened. So I got frustrated with acting. Um, I basically just started producing other people's projects. And I was really working on other people's projects, just trying to figure out my niche in this game. Um, went from that to casting to script supervising to actually directing. But the one thing that kept bothering me is that when you hire a DP or a cinematographer or anybody with the camera, their vision is their vision, it's not your vision. So that's where I'm very particular with certain things. So my vision wouldn't necessarily come across the way I would want it to, or even still, it wouldn't come across the way they wanted to come across if I was the one directing or so on and so forth. So I had made the decision, okay, you know what? I'm gonna try to try to dive into filmmaking. I was literally, I've been bouncing all my life, like for about 15 years, I've been a bouncer doing security, and I stopped doing that because it it turned me into a it put me in a place where I could not create. Like you're at the door of a bar in Hell's Kitchen from 4 o'clock in the afternoon to 4 o'clock in the morning. There's no way you're coming home and create because your mind is always on go. So I took a step back. The money was great, but I said, all right, I can't keep doing this. I can't keep putting myself in positions I don't want to be in. Um, security, just doing different jobs to get the dollar. That's what I was always about, and always put my dreams in a back burner. So when I made that final decision, it actually came after an accident I had from driving lifting Uber, got into a real bad accident where I couldn't walk for about, you know, six months. So I took that time, you know, to really study YouTube university and understand the exposure triangle. From the exposure triangle, I understood, okay, depth of field from that, you know, the basics of operating a camera, then you know, you go down that long rabbit hole of okay, uh A6400 versus Canon and this, that, and the third, and you get locked into a whole technology technology situation. So after that phase, I finally locked in, you know, picked up a black magic camera, that's what I shoot with, and I've been off to the races ever since. And you know, it is very it's very liberating when you realize you found something that takes your energy in a positive direction. So when I got to, you know, using my camera, it was just, it was just I just fell in love with it. You know, just filming anything I possibly could. But the one thing that I always had a had a headache in doing was bridging bridging that gap of okay, I hobby to this is a career. So I kept going back and I didn't believe in myself, okay, I I'm not that good of a filmmaker. I'm seeing your page and you know, other people's pages, and damn, I don't think I could do that. Is the camera I have, is it this I have, is is it me? Like, you're always in a state of doubt when you have this camera, but the one thing you have to realize is that the only thing that's stopping you is your doubt. Once you get past that, you start realizing that you have a skill that is not easy to do because this stuff is not easy by far. But you really gotta love it. And once you love it, it's like the thing that gives you everything you need once you just pour yourself into it. You know, so um I did that and I did my first documentary in was it 2024? And I did that for $200. I sold myself short because I didn't believe that I was actually good enough to charge somebody what I was, what you know my skills were, because I didn't know what my skills were. It was just me trying to figure it out and you know, diving through the whole smortgage board of okay, cameras, this, and the third. So once I did that first project, which was shelved because you know things happen. I don't want to get too much into that because it was a whole big situation. Project got shelved, I did it $200. I'm sitting here with this project, and after a while I got called in by a couple of friends that I knew to start filming their things as far as calisthetics. So, in doing that, you know, filming podcasts, I started realizing, okay, my skills are getting a little bit better. And as I'm doing part of my workout, I'm starting to notice people gravitating to my work a little bit more. That gave me the confidence, but it still wasn't enough because I still didn't feel like a filmmaker. You know? Um, after a while, you know, I just said to hell with it. You know, I don't care what nobody thinks. Just recently I quit my job and I'm taking this full time. And those are the steps necessary to actually be where you want to be, and I'm learning that now. And it's not a matter of of where you are, it's a matter of where you want to be, and do you see yourself there? You have to see yourself in the position you want to be before you get there. That's the most crucial part about it. And you know, when I met my cousin, is it's crazy because I didn't know I had family in filmmaking and is it's a bittersweet, you know, connection because our our cousin was was taken from us, and through the funeral, my cousin, who was his mom, who's Randolph's mom, told me, Yeah, my son is in filmmaking. When that's around the same time you were trying to decide if you're going to New York or LA with that job that you had, the broadcasting job. And about a week later, two weeks later, you hit me up, yo, cuz um we didn't know each other at all. Cuz I got I got my FX6, FX3, and uh I'm working on a documentary. I'm coming out to New York, and yo, I I I said, just bro, just come out here. I had spent so much time picking up equipment and in that whole lane of equipment diving that my crib kind of looked like DH. Duh.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Sorry to interrupt. I had the rig, but it was like that, the rig itself. That's it. I don't own a light dog. I don't own nothing. And I'm like, yo, ace, man, you, I don't, like I'm bare bones pretty much with the camera. And he's like, don't worry about it, man. I got everything you need there. I walk into his crib, bro. No lie. The shit looks like BH. Like we walk in there, it's light stance, and fucking, it was it's nuts. Like it was like, it was, it was, it was vested. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 22:26

And that's a lesson to everybody too. And I learned that over time, it's not the equipment. Even here working with you, Bryce, you had to drill that into my head a thousand times. I'm like, oh, snap the FX6. I'm my first time working with FX6. I'm just losing my mind. And he's like, bro, it's no different from the camera you have in your hand. The only difference is the weight. You know what I'm saying? That's it. But it's not the camera, it's the individual, is the hunger, is the drive, is the determination, is what you want out of this. You know what I'm saying? I just leaning towards, I'm still leaning towards the feature film route, the short film route, because that's what my love is. Acting is always my first love, so I'm definitely gonna go back into that. But with documentary filmmaking, there's a freedom that you get like no other. Like you can create, it's not like music videos. The reason why I don't like me doing music videos, I started off doing music videos as well. You're locked in the music videos are a great way to learn the craft and understand how to conduct yourself on set and deal with clients and everything else like that. But I will say, your creativity is locked directly into whatever artist you're working with.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Well, especially like if you're working with a musician, they're artistic too. So like they have a buttonheads on the top. It's not worth it. It's not. I've done a couple of things.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

I mean, that that's just for this table. For you, anybody out there that that that does music videos and works for you, keep going. Don't stop. Just don't limit yourself to music videos. Always look to broaden your horizon. That's with any aspect of filmmaking. Don't just stay one note. Get out of your comfort zone.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Complete don't don't look to be comfortable. When you're uncomfortable when you're filming, that's the part where you're growing. That's the part where you're actually becoming better. You're getting better with your camera, you're getting better with your edits, you're getting better with um, you know, your shot selection and framing and things of that nature. Like you told me, because I was always you've seen some of my videos, and the one thing you told me is let the shot breathe. And I didn't understand that because I was always with a gimbal. And what bugged me out when I saw your work, I didn't even think you worked with a gimbal. And you threw my mom, you said, bro, that's all I did until I realized the gimbal wasn't the way to go.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

So Yeah, it just depends on what you're trying to do.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Right, right. So, you know, not to be too long-winded, um filming is been an oasis for me, and it is now the life that I'm looking to live, or am living now, I should say. So Yeah, man. I I'm I'm I'm all in. Um that's it.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

I do want to say, like, too, you know, like, and this is a this this whole conversation is like, I wanna talk about like because we're all at like different points in our journey, right? And I want to talk about like just how it's perceived sometimes. Like when you see someone that might be like further in their journey, you have an idea of what their journey is like, but it's always inaccurate. Right. And it's it's like it that like we're always constantly learning, we never know what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Nobody ever knows what they're doing. No, we're always gonna do that. I'm learning that now.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Yeah, I'm learning that now. We went to Walmart like three times to grab cords that they didn't have. But I want to talk about like starting out and just getting jobs and like selling ourselves short. Like I did my first wedding for 80 bucks.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Shoot. You know?

SPEAKER_02 26:08

I did photos for 80 bucks, and like I was doing um portraits and and photographs for like boyfriend, girlfriend, and and stuff like that. Um and yeah, I just want to talk about just that. Like starting off and doing gigs, and like I want people to hear, I want people to like my thing is like I want people to hear the real shit, like the real, actual, you know, the nitty-gritty.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Let's get into it. So for me, man, I think uh I was about to say it earlier today, like anytime I got my camera in my hand, making some money is a win. Like, at this point, I just need the I need the camera to work for me. Uh if I'm not doing something that like I'm crazy passionate about. If I gotta shoot, like, I don't know. I do I do a lot of gig work with with newsrooms and stuff like that sometimes in the city uh from Cleveland, Ohio. So I'll pull up and maybe it's like, I don't know, some building just opened up or something like that, and they need something to uh for the people to see how cool this building is, long story short.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

Is that from your connections from your old job?

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Yeah, it is, unsurprisingly, yeah, yeah. It's crazy. Um, and just other people, man, that just see your story, your knife for storytelling. Literally, my pops a firefighter. One of his boys had hit me, he was like, yo, man, you're great. I know somebody that works at this affiliate, and I think you'll be a good fit. They're looking for freelancers. Boom. That's how that worked out. But you emailed them? How did that work out? I think, yeah, I emailed him my stuff, I sent him my stuff, and yeah, bro. Like within two days, I had a meeting to like sit down and have a conversation because they were looking for somebody to kind of switch up their or beef up their sports. Um and I'm like, yeah, I'm your guy. I mean, I'd be happy to. Um at that time, because beforehand, like again, before I got this camera, all I did was hold a microphone in my hand for real, for real. Like just a frame up shots, but like I was this. Um so that's what they wanted me to kind of do as a little bit of hybrid of both. Um and uh yeah, so with gigs like that, I don't know, chop up a shoot a piece with your own gear, 220. Plus uh maybe if I'm producing it an extra $70, and then however long it takes to edit, $25 an hour to edit, or something like that. You know what I mean? So if I chop up a piece, might say $400 or something like that for really like a day's worth of work. A day flip. That's $400. Like, you know how much driving I'm doing to make $400 on this that day, you feel me? Should I take what I can get? That that really was the mindset to this day that I'm in. Like it's really like where would you rather make the money? You feel me? Yeah. You really just gotta make that decision. Right, yeah. Um, and also, too, the way I look at it, the way I've been looking at it is like everything that I'm doing, everything since I got my camera was to build up my reel. Like, I don't have a reel chopped up yet, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

I don't it took me four years to make one. I don't gotta read that.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

That's the thing that bugged me out when you, I'm sorry about that, because that's the thing that bugged me out when you told me that I looked at your reel and I looked at your work and I was like, oh, before I met you, I was like, yo, this motherfucker's this bad motherfucker with a camera, bro. I'm sitting like, all right, cool, I'm gonna learn a hell of a lot. And then when I when we started working and you said that, I'm like, wait, what? So how did you get off this work? It's like my pre- everybody has a preconceived notion of the next person from the outside when you look at their work. Because but when you meet the person and you find out they're figuring it out just the way you're figuring it out, or just on another level, it's like it's kind of a like a like a like a ways off your shoulders, like, okay, okay, good. This is why, you know, me, I was kind of anti-social for a long time. So I didn't, I didn't like being around people or talking to people. So that was kind of the hardest thing for me to do. And when I started really, you know, becoming more, you know, open to conversation with people, I started realizing, like, bro, nobody has this thing figured out at all. You know what I mean? You just you get ready, you keep you keep putting yourself in positions until you're called.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

That's literally all I've been doing. Like literally this past year, all I've been doing since making Stack is applying to or submitting Stacks at Film Festivals. Thankfully, Stack just got into his first film festival this year. Uh dances with Films that'll be happening here shit next month, June. June 23rd. We'll be the screening. Very excited. Uh film festivals can be very picky and fickle and a lot of things in between. You know what I mean? But and subjective. That's the word. I was looking for it. Fuck all that other. It's all subjective. It's art. Everything is beautiful, you feel me? Or everything is ass, however you want to look at it. But but but they they saw you know enough in it to put it in front of the big screen. Um, so thankful for that, it'll be out there in uh in LA here soon enough. But like, since then, like, if I wasn't applying, and it's mad money to apply for film festivals, bro. It is. It's brick. I don't have any money. I don't got lit in these pockets. You know what I'm saying? It's 50 a head for applications. I probably submitted to like 30 of them joints, bro. And like, you know, sometimes you get a discount or whatever, whatever. But it's some bread. Like, it's I don't even want to look at my bank account right now. Uh so I was applying to math film festivals, um, and then what else was I doing? Applying to grants and fellowships, right? The one that it just came through was one of them. So is it just a whole lot of that? What else was I doing? Um partnering myself with other like-minded filmmakers. So I reach out to some, hey, I really like your work. Um I would shoot, I got this, I got the Frontier Flight Pass, dog. I'm able to travel like a mug. I be out the door with it, and it really affords me the flexibility to move the way I need to move, right? Um, if there's a gig happening in two days, I don't have a nine to five. I can drop everything I'm doing, hop on a plane, slide and go do it, come back, crash on the couch because I gotta know a lot of people, thankfully. And that's been my been that's all I've been doing these past like six months, bro. Is crashing on couches, trying to have meetings with people, show off my work a little bit that I've been doing for $3.99 and trying to put some money in my pocket for it. Like, and it's been working. It's certainly been working, bro. Like, I wouldn't, if you can afford to do it, do it. Um but it works.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Yeah, that's the one thing I learned from you too, is that you gotta be available and make yourself is like if you see something happening, be there, you know. And it's so easy for you to say, all right, nah, I'm I I can make the next one. That one that you make may be an opportunity, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

So and and it depends too, like how where you are in your journey to like when you're first starting, dude. I remember like anything that would come my way, and I still take most jobs that come my way.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

I haven't turned on anything yet.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Yeah, like I I I would I would take pretty much everything I got, and I still pretty much do. Yeah. Um but there was one thing that you said that I wanted to riff off of that I forgot.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

You'll you'll find it again. I I did want to add that, oh man. Um not saying no. Alright, yeah, I haven't said no to anything. Um, what else, bro?

SPEAKER_01 33:50

What happened with the chess documentary? That that that to me is a big lesson working with you on that. It's like you could put so much work into something and then not go the way you want. That's why a lot of people quit. You still gotta keep going. You still gotta keep going.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Oh my gosh, dog. I I so it's a project I was working on. So preface this by saying I will absolutely see this project through when it's all said and done. I don't give a damn how long it takes to see about like I'm a I'm gonna I'm gonna do it justice. But long story short, uh, I really did tell the stories about life through the lens of sports when I can. Um and I got the chance to tell a story about black sports that aren't highlighted as often, one being chess. So I had a subject, uh black woman who plays chess, was a chess prodigy at the age of 12, caught up with her her old schoolhouse. The school that she's from has been kicking ass for the past 25 years, bringing all these public school kids to these international, national tournaments, and whooping everybody, doing a damn thing, right? The New York Department of Education was giving me the hardest time and trying to make this shit happen, man. Uh it was really just a lesson in life. I was wearing all the hats, you know what I'm saying? Me and my cousin Ace running around New York like a bunch of mad men trying to frame shit up. But, you know, um on the producing side, we kind of we laughed, you know, kind of about it. Shit. If we had shout out to Marquise, Marquise is is the producer on this joint here, reclaiming space, but like he's making short ducks are in a row. Um and long story short, uh the permissions weren't had like the way we thought they were, so it kind of fell apart. And when uh when those things happen, man, you need all the signatures and all the everything has to be key, especially when you're working with kids, you feel me? Which I did. So uh it it it sucks. And and hopefully it's not forever. Um like I said, I wanted to justify the story. So we'll drum it back up again, man. But the biggest lesson there too is like I think what I'm learning now as a director. Uh the key to it is just being you're just a you're a good facilitator, honestly. You're putting people in, you the LeBron James, you're trying to like live and be a be a uh a point forward. Sometimes you can score, sometimes whatever, but you put people in position to succeed, right? You don't want to wear all the hats. So you align yourself with the producer that can help you clear your mind, and all you can do, all you want to, all you can do is focus on filming. Um or just the story, rather, because right, that's your job. Your job is to focus on filming as the DP, making sure no matter what's going on, you know, everything looks pretty. No matter what, no matter what's going on, make sure sound is crystal clear. Everybody has a job. I come from a school where you're wearing mad hats, even in a newsroom. I'm wearing like I'm wearing all these things, all these hats that you're saying. Like I'm I'm hitting up, you know, our subjects prior to doing pre-interviews. Uh I am the producer, field producer, you whatever you you name it, I'm doing it. Um so I come from that school and I was, you know, still do it as a one-man band. So now you're in a position to have, you know, a budget to work with and you're able to hire other people, bro. You just gotta build a dream team. And shit, I I know I did here. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Yeah, I I wanted to say, like, you you just said, um I kind of have a brain fart. What did you just say? Just right before that. Oh, um, it takes a while to like figure out, because you do at first when you're starting, like you're doing everything. And still, we always still do at some points, but at a point I realized like I just want to film. Like, I was trying to do my own projects and stuff like that. Yeah, and I realized like I like when we walk into a space and like you know, Ace is doing the field producing and making sure that everyone's getting their signatures and and and lotting people up, and like you're telling everyone what's going on, and that way I can focus on where's the windows, like where what's what's what's the best angle, like how what what are we trying to, you know, what are we trying to convey? Um and I think that um that's something that people should be conscious of like as they're doing it, and there's no like right or wrong answer. Everyone always wants to be the director of the cinematographer, though. Um and I think that it's it's okay to like not be. Yes, it's okay to be an impact producer or a producer or a writer, like writers are insanely important.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Facts, yes, you know, they make the story, like that's the thing. Like, there are so many different nooks and crannies, and so many important skill sets and transferable skills. Like, again, I'd be telling I was just on a panel the other day telling folks from journalism, like, you don't have to be sweating in that newsroom, dog. You can pick up, you can do what I'm doing. It's a whole other life outside of this sucker. You feel me? Uh, and again, like you said, editing, writing.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Well, not editing, I forgot. You could be editing.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Yeah, editing, dog, it's about to be a time in that damn on my laptop in here in a minute, boy, cooking up this damn rough cut. But yeah, so many important roles.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

So many. And I realize that I don't like editing either. Editing is like one of the most important jobs.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Arguably the most important. You can make, you can, you can have a shitty, you can do a shitty deal and your editor can save your life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

Or you can make an have an awesome film with all this amazing stuff, and it could be a bad editor and it could ruin the whole film. That's a fact.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Is it is it that you don't like editing, or do you like only editing when it's on your time?

SPEAKER_02 39:49

I only like editing if it's something that I like. Right. Yeah. Like I don't want to edit like I don't like it either.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

I don't like doing it, but I'm not passionate about it.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

And I kind of want to get into that right now. We might as well just get into that. So, like, the thing, the thing with the thing with actually being a filmmaker and doing it full time is like you don't ever show work that you get paid for, a lot of the time. Like, you could because I I never really understood this at first. Like, when you first are starting out, you're trying to show like all of this stuff. Like, I was showing that I was doing weddings, I was showing that I could do travel films, and I had that all in the same place. But like, you don't want to show people that you can do everything. Because like everyone can everyone can do everything to an extent, right? And that's why I eventually honed it into like I do verite emotional storytelling. And and I'm just a cinematographer, sometimes I'll direct. Um and I'm curious too, like, what what do you think that is for you? Like, as you've been doing this for Yeah, two weeks.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Um You've been doing it for a year. A year, bro. It's about two weeks. Oh man. Man, so even before I got this uh deal, a lot of people were like, man, Randolph, you got a good eye. Like, I really can see you being a cinematographer. I think you should like you know try to hone that craft. I agree. I dig it. Like, I I I really like shooting. I but it's tough though, man. I really I like baking the cake, man. I like editing too. Like I do.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Um you've been doing it a year.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Yeah, I've been doing it, I've been doing it for a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

Not as good, but I I did it at first.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

It just Okay, you said I'm gonna grow out of that thing.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Nah, maybe not. If it's your own thing. If it's your own thing you're passionate about, no, but I'll get into that in a second.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

But no, I agree, bro, because I I mean, even literally, I I could say the same thing. Because even with the gigs that I've been doing for like said new newsrooms and stuff, they hit me in the stories like whack. I'm like, I'm gonna edit that shit, man. I'm not doing that. I'm like, I don't got the time, bro. I'm busy. I got I got stuff going on. You feel me? Like I should.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Or or how about you get you're editing a project and you're so bogged down with editing, an opportunity that you really want to do comes up and you can't even touch it. Right. That part is is And then you sweat. Now you sweat. Now you like trying to rush the job. Yeah, sometimes you prematurely take the job because you're so passionate about that job.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

And you take the job because you you don't know when your next check comes right. You gotta give the comments, you gotta give it why it's hot.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

And that's yeah, and that's why I was talking to you guys earlier about this one job, and it's like I don't want to edit it, and I'm afraid that if I don't, you know, take it, that I might not get that type of work anymore. But like I I don't want to do the editing for it, you know? And it's just like it's one of those things that you really have got to like because like you just said, I've been like lately this year, I've been really fortunate to be like getting a lot of decent work, and it's like I don't want to put myself in that position where I burn myself out, or if I have an opportunity, like like this, for instance. Like, sometimes I don't care as much about the money. Like, I want to shoot something that I enjoy doing. Of course, it's amazing to get paid for it as well, but I would rather make less money and film something that I like that can make a difference than like film some corporate thing. And I'm not bashing that at all. It's just my opinion of what I would rather spend my time doing. And like, it depends on where you're at in your career that what type of jobs you're gonna take. But you're not gonna show those corporate gigs unless you, you know, want to get hired for those again.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Yeah, that's real. It's a balance to strike, bro. And it's tough because even before I don't know if you guys know this, but in documentary, you don't make a lot of money. No. No, it's a tough bro. No, it's a tough cookie to crack, man. And it's like a lot of people, like even with all the documentary, so many talented folks, bro, and they make their money through commercials and all sorts of other Things, you know what I'm saying, not related to this beautiful film that we just saw. You know what I'm saying? And that's crazy. A lot of it is either like grant money or something you gotta strike gold. Like you gotta just strike gold, bro. The stories can be fire. Like I just saw a piece the other day. It was something on social media where like Sundance. Um Sundance Films that went to Sundance.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Only half of them got distribution, maybe less than half got distribution.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

It's probably less because a lot of places aren't aren't buying anything now.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

And that's crazy to think. Like you reached the pinnacle of you know what folks would say is that had an impact.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Clearly. Yeah. And they're like, nah, people aren't gonna be. I'm okay. People aren't gonna watch that. You feel me? Like, what the what is happening? That's not gonna retain our audience on our platform.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Right. It's a trip.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

It's the dark truth.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

It's a trip, man. Um, so you gotta wait with that in mind, you gotta think outside. It's like, all right, man, shit, I guess this corporate is gonna pay the bills for a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Exactly. That's why I still do weddings. And I do I don't really consider it corporate stuff. It's stuff in the assistive living space. I enjoy it. I get to hear stories and stuff like that from um elderly folk and stuff like that. Elderly folk.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

I dig stories on elderly folks too, bro. Like I mean, just it's it's a little bit of seasoning, never hurt nobody, man. It's stories in there, it's life in there.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

It's fun, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Doesn't matter how you bring the story to the to the forefront. I don't know, honestly. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 45:30

It's in the elders, man. They know how they I like them. They look good on camera, they do a good damn good job, for sure. They do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

But I think, yeah, like uh that's that's one of the like the myths that I wanted to like talk about was like when you this was your very first grant that you have ever received. I have always wanted to work on a documentary with a crew, and this is like this is like the first time, and I've been doing this since tw 2018. This is the very first time that I've ever actually like been in a crew. I've I've done a narrative film that had a grant, but I've never like done a documentary that had a grant where I was in one location for a long period of time filming multiple characters. Like I filmed, I filmed like a day here and a day there of another character, but it wasn't like an actual, hey, our crew has to go to the location and be there for like a week and a half. And it's fun.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

No, it is. So that was really the setup for it. Like, I had in my mind, so in putting together this thing, all I wanted to do was build a crew that was down. Like I know the type of time I come from, bro. I don't give a damn how long it takes for me to shoot or chop up or whatever. I want to make the most beautiful thing I can. And I just wanted a crew that was down with that. So in my mind, I'm like, all right, bro, I need to hire a dope um DP cinematographer. I don't know what hat Ace's gonna wear yet, but he's already automatic. You know what I'm saying? Um, producer, you I was trying to put the pieces together with, you know, having a budget for the first time. And in my mind, I'm like, alright, guys, uh the shooting schedule, let's see. We following three different characters. Life is light. Some days will be light for shooting, some days will be heavy. How about we just camp out in Athens, Ohio for a week and some change. And uh, yeah, let's make a summer camp out of it. You know what I mean? And like shit, we hear Ace whipping it up in the kitchen every fucking morning. Breakfast. He's cooking a dinner at breakfast type shit, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 47:47

Prepared if we prepare for when we get home, because like we know we're gonna be on the road, so when we get home, ain't nobody gonna feel like doing nothing. Just throw in the oven, sit down, start looking at some films and looking at footage, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Ace don't mess around, dog. You might fuck around and get double paid for fucking being a chef and at the same time. Crazy. Uh, but but but that um and it's been it's been dope, man. Like every day's been a little bit different, and we've been getting so much good stuff. Sometimes you can like shoot, sometimes you're shooting just to shoot. Sometimes you're not getting good shit, man. We we've we've been blessed in that regard. And all of our characters are strong. And and you know, the um the film is taking turns. You know what I'm saying? Like the production, we are like it's shifting already. You gotta we gotta talk to the the folks, the uh the powers that be, you know what I mean? But but man, this thing is already it already has legs, for sure. Uh like I'm shooting a feature, they just don't know it yet.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

And the the the most important thing for me is is like connecting with people that are not usually in your normal element.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

You know, I'm from Brooklyn, New York. The furthest thing I would ever think I'd be in Athens, Ohio filming anything. I'm not gonna lie to you. Like, we all in the way in a spot where you look at your phone and that shit says SOS. Yeah, I'm like, hold on. Like, I made the wrong turn on the road. And I'm like, okay, this is how a bad movie starts. Let me just sit here and wait. So I'm calling Randolph. No, the phone ain't working. It says no signal. It's I look over here, it's woods, I look over there, it's woods, I look there, it's a straight long road with a let me pull overweight right here. It's just it's is is very, you know, exciting, you know, being around different elements and learning from different people because everybody you come in contact with, you know, gives you a piece of themselves in some sort of way when you're filming a documentary. And it's it's beautiful, man. Like I've I've had so much fun doing this, and I can't wait for the next one. And um when you get one, it's kind of like a drug. You want the next one, you want the next one. Yeah. And it, you know, so yeah, man. That that part that's that's what's exciting for me. Yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

I I think the sky's the limit with it too. Like, the good thing about um, like you said, man, you get to like somebody giving you money to cook.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

It's crazy, man.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

It is crazy. They are crazy. Like, no, no, no. Thank you. Yeah, man, but literally it's that, and and they trust you, right? And you come up with a strong product, bro. Like, they're gonna keep it, you know, it's gonna keep coming back for sure, because it's proven.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

Um and not only that, is the fact that the matter from this, because we're in the region, because you're doing so much work, people see you, and we got in contact with a couple of people yesterday. Yeah. Um it we also got working on another project in June out here because of this situation. So it's like once you commit to this craft, this lifestyle, whether it be documentary, film work, commercial work, whatever it may be, you have to take out of your mind, which is almost impossible to do, I can't get something next time. Because you got this one. You know what I'm saying? It's just, it's really getting past yourself, it's getting over yourself to not doubt yourself enough to take yourself out the game before you get the next one. Because if you got one, you get a next one. It may not be when you want it, but it's it's there. You just gotta keep pushing and being persistent.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

A hundred percent. And there's people literally that like you'll talk to, and then like three years later, yeah, I'll be like, yo, man, I'm doing this film. Yeah, I'm already hard because I was I went through this really hard period where like I didn't want my relationships to be transactional. Like you, but you were telling me like everything in a way is like even if we're just getting joy or a conversation. Like you were playing Max Payne 3 the other night, and I was like sitting there and I was enjoying watching you play just because it was like fun. And like even that was transactional. Right. You were getting to play the game, I was getting enjoyment watching you play the game.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

I haven't played Max Payne. That's a 10-year-old game, and I'm sitting there like, oh wow, I forgot about this. Nah, but it I've learned that uh everything is transactional, a conversation is transactional. In a conversation, somebody's giving somebody information and the other person's paying the other person an attention. Right. You know? Yeah, attention, time. Right, yeah, you know, if somebody created a movie, somebody watches it. Everything has uh it's a give and take, you know. So it's just you have to, you have to really once you understand what you want, once you also understand who you are within the realm of what you want.

unknown 52:42

It takes a while.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

It does. That's that's the thing. Don't get we're sitting there having this conversation. I ain't got shit figured out yet. So I just want that to be known. I'm literally flying by the seat of my pants and enjoying every minute of it. It's a lot of turbulence, it's a lot of nights where I'm sitting there questioning myself to this day. I hate to sound like Deontay Wilder. To this day, yeah, but anyway, you're you you every day you question yourself, but within those questions, you have to say, I got this. That's the one thing you can never question, you know, and that's really I feel the whole thing about being a filmmaker because it's not a road that's linear, like, okay, I I go to school, I do this. You can still go to school for this and not see a dime. You you can't look for the money. You gotta look for the joy within the craft.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

Sounds crazy. I never thought I'd be saying that.

SPEAKER_02 53:37

That is it.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

You know what I'm saying? You gotta look for the joy, the little minuscule moments of joy within the craft, like when we was filming David, like being in the museum. Yeah, it's just wow, this exists.

unknown 53:49

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

Those those are the moments that keep me going. Those are the moments, and just being around good people.

SPEAKER_02 53:56

Yeah, and learning and learning about yourself. Right. You get to meet new people, and like for me, that's what it's really about is like getting to hang with you guys, us talking. I've just, you know, we've had so many conversations, filming characters, and just getting to learn a different perspective and like growing as a person. Like, like our one of our characters was saying stuff about racism that I never thought about before. And I and I still it it's like changed how I view it. You know, it's it's amazing. It's the best job in the world.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

Every every opportunity to create is opportunities to learn and grow, and that's a moniker that I live and stand by. Like, every time I pick up the camera, I'm learning something new about myself, about the environment around me, about the people around me. It's just an eye-opener. It's a beautiful thing. So for those who have picked up a camera, who are looking to pick up a camera, and if you have any love for cinema, jump into it headfirst. Don't wait. I'm 45. I started this at 40 years old. Like, literally, people look, everybody's like, what are you doing? I don't care what you think. I don't care what anybody thinks. You cannot care. Even when you create something, it goes as far as that too. When it comes down to you editing something or putting out your final project, certain people are gonna judge you, but you can't take anything that anybody's saying for face value. Can't. You gotta hear it, say, okay, thank you for that, but keep going. It's not a matter of saying, oh, fuck what you're saying, I don't care. No, it's some validity in anything that anybody says, even the people who have no credibility. You know what I'm saying? You just have to learn to say, all right, I hear you, but what you feel about your creativity has to be so strong it overrides anything that's happening out there.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Like, uh, sorry to interrupt, bro. Why are you come on? You gotta like stand on, you gotta stand on what you think is best. Like as the creator of it. You feel me? Like you take in, take feedback with the great assault. You know what I'm saying? Uh for sure. Because you know the vision. You stick to your gut. You're you're right, you're probably right.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

And I'm always telling people, like, when I give them advice, I'm telling them how I would edit it. Just like with your trailer. And, you know, you made a couple changes, not everything that I said or whatever, but it's like I ultimately was like, you know, it's your it's your vision, like you're the director. Um, and I think that that's something too. I remember someone told me on one of my films that the music didn't fit, and then someone else was like, the music's great. Right. And I knew like I loved it, so I wasn't gonna change it. And but I do think that certain people I will listen to. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

And if you hear it uh enough times from multiple people, it's something that to think about.

SPEAKER_02 56:54

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like but I was mad, I was really hard on that light, though. Like I really wanted to keep that light.

SPEAKER_01 57:03

You had the audience mad at you, bro.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

Like that light around the corner, I wanted to have like right. It wasn't next to me.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

It was like it looked like it was right next to me. It was a little bit behind me.

SPEAKER_02 57:16

It was a little bit behind me.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

But also also to also, too, is being open to change your style sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

Oh, dude.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Because I I showed Bryce my work and he told me, he was like, Sometimes you gotta let the shot breathe. And watching other people's films, you start looking and saying, okay, I I need to do this, I need to have. It's just a matter of just sometimes let the shot breathe. You don't always have to use a gimbal. I was somebody that liked move, I like like movement a lot. And you used to film in sports, right? I I film, I film all I film, most about stuff I film is calisthenics, you know, for the UFX League on Fox Sports and things of that nature. It's always stuff moving. You gotta keep moving. But some it it this like you told me, the shot has to make sense. What did you say to me? I can't even think of it right now, is um the intention.

SPEAKER_03 58:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

What is what is this story that you're filming? What is the story about, and does this shot meet the intention of your story or whatever message you're trying to portray? Because you can have a bunch of movement, but does that match what the story is about? If you're sitting there, you know, telling a uh documentary about a library, you don't need to be moving all over the place. A library is still, it's quiet. So you have to have shots that match that, and I learned that while I was here with you guys. You know what I'm saying? And then also, too, me, I I use a lot of transitions. You know, um not L cuts, but um like effects? Yeah, like like masking and things like that. Like I use a lot of masking transitions, a lot of um like uh rotoscoping, and it's not necessary.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

Yeah, it's really style though.

SPEAKER_01 59:12

For it's it's like what you're filming though, you're filming calisthenics and stuff like that, so it's you know but even but even still I I've I've looked at the stuff that I'm doing, and sometimes adding effects takes away from the beauty of what the shot could actually be. You know, if you are doing a rotor scope with a character and you're moving them out the way, but sometimes you could you don't even have to move them, let them move. Let them move and let the let the shot brief so it shows the intention of the character. Because like we watched the documentary the other day where it was just straight silence. But the pieces in there, like you see an old boat guy walking, okay.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

That's great.

SPEAKER_01 59:55

That was a that was amazing. Yeah. Haul out. Haul out, yeah, haul out. That that was dope. And that had me looking at filming even short films and feature films differently. It doesn't always have to be moving. Whatever's in the shot.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

Let the people move.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Yeah, let the people move. Let the people, and sometimes you don't even need words. That that watching that whole thing, it wasn't a word spoken in that that that film until the end. And I'm there like, I'm locked in. You know what I'm saying? So it's it's like, man. Yeah, it's just just I I get geeked out when I talk about film, man. We all do, bro.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

Yeah, we all do, though. It's it's a dope, uh, it's a dope, dope life to geek over this film. Uh film stuff. I gotta say, man, uh, I gotta say what life is looking for me right now. This is why you should bet on yourself. When I was out in LA, I was in LA for like a week, two weeks ago. Uh I was out there for they had an orientation in a mixer ahead of this film festival that I got into. So I'm like, all right, bet. Knew some folks out there I wanted to crash on the couch, and that's what I did. I was out there for like a five days. Went out to LA, caught up with someone that I met again from a cold email, cold LinkedIn message. Hey, this is what I'm into. We love to connect. Boom, boom, and bam. We connected out in LA when I was there. He was like, hey man, uh, you know, we got this project that we're working on right now. If you're open to it, come out and PA for us or whatever. I'm like, yeah, man, shit, hell yeah, I'm down. Long story short, he hit me up a couple weeks later and was like, Yeah, man, come shoot some BTS for us. Did a BTS out in um Dallas. We went shooting this doc. And another week, I shot a film and or I shot some BTS for him in West Virginia. Met another crew, it's a film crew like this. The three of us there. I'm shooting BTS, it's a director, it's a producer, it's an EP, the whole gang, and I'm learning and just wanted to be in the environment, right? He really set me up for success. Shout out to Dylan, shout out to Dylan, shout out to Nick, shout out to Kenny. Uh, really good people over there. And so I'm in LA, we link up again. This is again two weeks ago. I'm like, hey, yo, this is what I've been working on. You know, he was like, yo, come over for dinner. Me and my wife would love to have you over for dinner. I just met Cudz two weeks, you know what I mean? Like three weeks ago. I didn't know him a month ago, you know what I mean? He was gracious enough to have me at his people crib or have him have me at his crib. We'd air shearing a meal, talking. Um, even when I was down there in West Virginia, he was like, yo, man, I was telling him about Stack. I'm trying to get Stack in the film festival. He was like, yo, man, shit. Uh half the battle is just knowing the directors, man. I'll reach out to him on your behalf, tell him I saw your film, and you know, I mean, this before you even saw the film, you know what I'm saying? Just looking out off the screen. Like, damn, you good people, man. Um, so that happened. Fast forward, we ate uh dinner at his at his place. I'm like, yeah, here's what I'm up to now. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, man, I got the I got this frontier flight pass. I had a long ass layover. Usually I'm able to freak it and I'm able to like get wherever I need to in a decent amount of time. I had like a 24, 21-hour layover in fucking Denver. And I'm like, damn, bro, I got this long ass layover in Denver. He was like, he looked up from the table, he's like, man, my mama lives in Denver. You can just stay at the crib. I'm like, what? Stay at your mama's house, bro. You know what I'm saying? That's not normal. You feel me? People are so kind. You know what I'm saying? And it's kind of like it's a it's a it's a combination of kindness. Uh what we talked about earlier, like, you know, putting yourself in position where it kind of luck meets uh yeah, all of that, you know what I'm saying? And and and things work out in your favor if you just take the bet. I'm crashing on couches. I don't know a soul out there really in in LA. I know a couple of good people, but like things just keep stacking up if you put the work in for it. You know what I'm saying? So man, I I I just had to say that out loud because so many good things have been happening since you since I jumped off the porch. Like it's it's crazy. Don't even don't even think about it, just do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:11

And do you think that you would be as successful as you are without the art of documentary?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:17

No, man, honestly, that's why I joined. Um I needed to be around like-minded people. I wanted to be around the work. So many dope talented filmmakers in that sucker, man. Uh they got this joint called Feedback Hour. So I show all my work in there, whether it's like me kind of ideating or ideating. Yeah, okay. Spell check on that. Or uh uh ideating a project or editing a rough cut or whatever the case may be, trying to get feedback. Michael Del Monte Shout out to Michael Del Monte. And he was carving through stack, and so were other people. But but um man, strong feedback, you know what I'm saying, and and and strong filmmakers in their own rights. But whether I had my own stuff that I was bringing to the table or just watching other films, like mad people in there asking questions that you know that are useful to you in your career, no matter where they are in theirs. You know what I'm saying? You just bouncing off of each other and having this man, just just this thought bubble for two and a half hours. Uh, it's it's it's great. For two uh times a month, it's some money to invest, but again, bro, this thing is all a bet. Dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:31

You gotta invest in your own. The money that I invested in it, I've gotten like blown away. Like I literally, if I didn't join the art of documentary, I wouldn't be where I'm at. Like I wouldn't be here because I wouldn't have known you. You posted the job in the Facebook group, and this is again the whole theme of this entire episode. Be ready when Stay Ready so you ain't gotta get ready. Yeah, stay ready. Like I Obviously, I commented, I post in there a lot. And I think you knew you had seen me.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:08

Yeah, bro. I saw I saw Bryce's work a minute ago. Like I saw him like when I first got in a group. My eyes went to his pretty, pretty much, you know, immediately once I was in a group. Couple cats that like stood out as getting busy for me. I really dig observational storytelling. I dig like fitting with the character, letting some emotion come out. It's a lot of DPs that can get busy and set up really pretty primary interviews and all these lights and everything you see on Netflix and shit like that. That's that's cool. Like it's pretty. But like I know the type of films that I make, and I knew that the type of film that this would be. Uh, and you definitely fit that mode. So I was like, you know, I had some money in my pocket, man. I'm like, yo, man, I want to see what Bryce is up to. I dug it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

Told the funny part about somebody, you hide you call somebody yo. Oh, it's crazy. That's the other part that's social.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:00

I won't order documentary, right? And I and I go and I'm like, yo, I'm looking for a DP, boom, boom, bab, bam. Hella people in the comments. Um, you know, I would love to. It was hella. And, you know, emailing me, all types of carrying on. You know, sifting through profiles and reels and all this carrying on portfolios and um gathering names. And I had a conversation with Bryce already, and I'm still in and like in the comments, like three different people was like, Bryce would be great to work with, Bryce is great, Bryce is great, Bryce is great. Is this Bryce, dog? Yeah, man, you making that $20 for it. And I'm like, uh, so it was like that. And then literally, this was probably stupid, dude. Uh, at the top of you being a brilliant DP. I'm getting it, somebody hit me up and was like, hey man, I would love to be the DP on your project, but I see that Bryce uh put his bit in. I think you should hire Bright. I ain't never seen nothing like it, dawg.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:07

I ain't never seen nothing like it. I'm so grateful that uh that's that just shows like how awesome the community is, too, though. That's real. But and it's hard because like this is such a competitive space, too, to see that type of stuff. Like that that honestly like made like got me in my fields. I'm like, wow, like that's that's awesome that someone actually did that.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:28

Trying to put you on.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:29

Yeah, because it it is super competitive. Like we all we all want to make a living doing this, we all want to be hired, and it's hard to get hired for cool projects, as we said earlier, like getting grants and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:42

So it's definitely a tough deal as I'm learning, man. Like I think uh, and that was another thing too, it was like the it was beyond, he makes great work, but the aesthetic, like I was like, damn, bro, I want to be like Bryce when I grow up, bro. He travels in a van. He lives up in his van. He travels the world doing dots and shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:59

I'm like, get the fu like Cuz told me that. I was like, I'm on the thing looking at vans, like, let me see, could it be a little bit more than around the corner?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:08

Here's the thing. So that's another thing I wanted to talk about. Is you want to make people perceive you in a certain way. Like, I don't, I'm not traveling around all the time doing docs. A lot of the time I'm at my girlfriend's house in my underwear playing video games. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:26

Bro, not for nothing. When you told me that, I'm like, no fucking way, bro. Yeah. No way. And see, that that that speaks to you know one of the most important principles about filmmaking. Bryce's journey is Bryce's journey. Randolph's journey is Randolph's journey. Ace's journey is an Ace's journey. And with me, I had to learn that. You can't look at somebody else's journey and then judge yourself based on that. Exactly. That by doing that, you shoot yourself in the foot and you stop yourself from going anywhere. Because what's applicable for him is not applicable for me. I had what I did coming into this, I had to better myself in a different way. I had to leave the apartment I had, move back in with my mom, take my life savings, and get everything I needed, to whereas now my bank account is zero. But I have what I need to be a filmmaker. You know, that may not apply to you. That may not apply to somebody around the corner who may have it or may not have it. You have to find first when filmmaking, find the love for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:36

Whatever it may be. Whether it may be in commercial, like I said, commercial work, film and music videos. Don't take my way. I hate music videos, but you may love it. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:46

Narrative work. Find what you love and dive into it. Don't worry about the next Joe Schmo. Don't worry about what anybody's doing. Figure out your lane and stay in it. You know what I'm saying? I've tried so hard to mimic, and I'm not gonna bullshit you, I tried to mimic other people's styles. Oh, I did, I did.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:09

It went horrible for horrible, yeah. I mean, that that's something that I we could get into for a second. Like that was one of the things that I always tell people. It's like mimic, like straight up copy other people's styles that you like. When I first started, like there are YouTubers that I watched, and I would literally make films, like this one guy, Aiden Robbins, uh, he makes a bunch of hiking videos in the in the woods, and they're super moody. Have you ever seen them before?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:35

I've seen, I've seen a whole couple of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:37

So I would go out in the woods and just film myself hiking and like color grade like him and stuff like that. And I learned a lot from him. And over time I did that with multiple people until eventually, like that film I showed you guys last night night.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:49

Uh the first the one you did with the A7S III.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:52

Yeah, the one life one. Yes, that was the first time that I really like slowed shit down and like really held shots and like really, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:01

And when I watched that, and we had the conversation yesterday, because when I watched that, once again, I had a preconceived notion like you shot that with the FX3 or that. FX six. I'm like, yo, bro, nah, no, bro, as long as it's a 12-bit camera, you're good. 10 bit, yeah. 10 bit, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:17

But no, I mean, even if it's an 8-bit camera, it's it's we saw these projects and films years and years ago, and they look great. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:26

Before there was a 10-bit, there was an 8-bit, and people are still doing the damn thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:29

Right. And like that, and that's another thing I want to get into in a second. But copy, I straight up just copy people's styles, and eventually you'll find your own. Exactly. Right. You'll find your own. And it'll change over time. Like now, like I shoot a certain way, and I'm kind of like, this is kind of getting a little boring. I kind of want to switch it up. And like I'm I'll see an angle that Randolph's getting, and I'm like, I would probably never get that angle, and that's why I like it. Because it's different than something that would I would think of, you know? And you you just you just switch it up and and have fun with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:02

Remember, it's copy style. Don't try to be copy. That that's what I'm because see what I try to do, I try to do everything like the person. No, you don't do everything like the person. You look at it, okay, you take the style and add it to. If it don't work, fuck it. Find something else that does work. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, man, like, man, listen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:27

To add to it on uh my end, I think that's the beauty of kind of working with a team that I'm enjoying. Cause I'm like, man, I'm used to running around by myself, man, and sweating and all this shit. To kind of drop it up. You're like, oh bright guy, like I mean, I'm I'm getting my own shots, man. I look, I'm looking over Bryce's shoulder, and I'm like, okay, I really dig this. We watching the film thereafter, you cradling the camera like a baby, it's swaying and shit. I'm like, man, I you know what I mean. I get the vision. You shoot them live majority of the time, catching BTS in a strong way.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:00

Um you're getting cutaways of hands and.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:03

Yeah, man, we all get to like really, really craft stuff in a in a way that's it's gonna be dope, man. We got so much fucking coverage. We're finding the cinema.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:11

We're finding the don't be afraid to take a role that you don't normally take.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:21

That's that's another crucial thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:24

I'm not a BTS film, nothing, but being on BTS or doing audio, like next project, somebody's hiring me for audio. I don't I do everything. I just don't do audio, but the fact that I'm mad at that doing audio could now put propel you into something else. You do audio on this project, somebody say, Oh, I like I like how this person works, or just your personality, just being around people, yeah, and they just gravitate towards you because of who you are. Be who you are, don't try to be anybody else.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:56

That was the biggest lesson. Like, even when I was in West Virginia, just on that crew, like you're there, you're locked in with the majority of the time on documentaries, it's a small crew, it's a skeleton crew of three, four, or five people, times or something like that, right? Y'all in close quarters. And you want to be around somebody that you rock with, you know what I'm saying? That you enjoy having a good time with. If a damn how good Brights do, if Bright's is the asshole, if there's the door, like real life. Like, no, it's not that type of party. We enjoy being around one another. We laughing, we we we traded notes, we join each other, the whole tobacco. And no matter what, like, like that's that will keep Brights and Rolodex to be called back, and hopefully vice versa. Ace will always be around because I need something. It's a next to a party, man. Like, for real, like, um I was about to say, like, you can have a project that's gone bad, and you like that, and it's nobody's fault, right? But if you had a good time with that crew, like, man, I don't reflect, man. You remember that fucking whack ass job we did back in the day, and it's still a time though, because you're bonded over it over it, you feel me? Compared to, you know, maybe y'all knock your project out of the park, but man, you remember that dude he's nitpicking over everything the whole time. And you he would never get called back again. You know what I'm saying? So, like, that's a big part of it. Um, no matter what the role is, showing up with a smile on your face and knocking that shit out of the park.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:25

The appreciation for the job, because like we said, you never know when the next one is gonna drop in your lot. If you get four or five jobs within a week, you can sometimes it may take a month, yeah, sometimes it may take a year, but just stay ready. Yes, just keep filming, just keep practicing, keep keep shooting your free throws on the free throw line. Keep shooting your free throw. Keep shooting the free throws, man. If even if there's nothing to film, and I I that's something I had to really learn. I have a black magic camera, that shit is heavy as fuck. It's annoying to travel with, it's cumbersome, but the thing is that it is my camera. I chose it. And the reason why I chose the black magic over any other camera, um, I could have got the FX3, uh, FX6, but I really wanted to, I had it in this part of myself. I want to be a cinematographer. I want to understand everything it takes to make a shot beautiful. So when I got the black magic camera, it was like, okay, um, the Corvette with no power steering, no anti-lock brakes, um, no, no, no, nothing, no stabilization. But in in diving into that now, when I grab Bryce's FX6, it's like, oh shit. It's not the camera, it's what you learn for the next camera you get or whatever. It's the person. And Bryce drilled that into my head, and the more and more I was fanboying over everybody's camera, I'm like, bro, what am I fanboying? I have just enough that I need to create. Okay, maybe his camera may be better than low light. There's a workaround around it. Find it. Don't, don't, don't shoot yourself in the foot because the camera doesn't do exactly what you wanted to do. Make that motherfucker do what you wanted to do. Simple.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:15

You're the person behind the camera, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:17

And buying a new camera is only gonna inspire you for so long. And like I remember when I bought my FX6, it didn't make me a better shooter. Um, I actually was walking around the house using it, and I'm like, this is weird because I've never used a camera like that. I'd only use the SI Vice. Right, right, right. And then eventually I just kept shooting on it, and I do like shooting on it better, but it's like it just depends on the situation. Right. And it just, yeah, it doesn't matter. And that brings me to my next point that cinematography doesn't matter so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:50

I'm learning that too. Oh shit, yeah. What happened with me shooting on heat to one compression ratio, not realizing I'm killing a whole fucking two terabytes on my car? You were shooting, we were shooting BTS.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:03

We've been out here for all the two days. Two days later. Ace came out with four terabytes uh which between two SSD drives. Both of them shits was full after two days because he was shooting it. The highest oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:17

That was my biggest thing. Like anytime I shoot, I I always wanted to look a certain way, so I always put it at the highest compression. But like hearing what Bryce said, is like, bro, sometimes all you need is HD. Well It depends on the circumstance.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:35

Yeah, but I'm saying like the cinematography. Yeah, I'm saying like the cinematography. Like, there are really good documentaries that I've seen where the cinematography, like the the person is filming the person What's the one you showed me where it was just autofocus? It was just one It's called Higher Love. Right. And um the guy literally shoots on an A7 III with just the camera. He doesn't even have a monitor, nothing. And he's just looking at the screen, he's got a mic on top, and then he's got them lobbed up, and he had he uses autofocus a lot, and it's like the cinematography is not that great, and it won best film.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:15

The story is paramount for sure with everything you do. Story is king.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:18

That film won uh best film at Slam Dance. Oh yeah, and you know, dude shot it with uh A7 III. I just I really want to like tell people A7 III, mic right here, 24 to 70 lens, autofocus. No V amount, just like this looking at the little tiny screen. Because he had access.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:42

Yep. Access is what makes documentaries.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:46

Absolutely. I'm gonna check that camera one more time, but keep keep going about the access. It's like getting your character's trust. Like that's that's one of the most important things people don't people don't really, you know. It's take it account for. Yeah, it like like I posted in a story once. People say, What lens was that? And I said, 80 hours spent with building the characters' trust or whatever. You know?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:06

Yeah, dog. That's that's real life. And it's been, you know, it's mad pre-interviews with me. You try to be personable and everything like that. I think that's where the really the journalism skills kick in. And my dad, my dad talks them out a minute. Every, like my mom, I get it from my parents for real, for real, these, these, these skill sets. I think this, I'm I'm grabbing it from from each, from yeah, both of them at the same time with this. Um, but yeah, man, locking in with your with your subjects, getting them, letting them get to know you. Like even like Dr. T, shout out Dr. T yesterday. I'm interviewing her for a strong hour. And then she is like, all right, man, what about y'all? And went around the room and made sure she got, you know, the nuts and bolts of everybody. You feel me? And took us out to dinner thereafter. More bonding, you feel me? Right. It's those sorts of moments that make a film. Um, and will allow us to, you know, really chip away at whatever armor's there to get, you know, the sound bites and the and the the good on camera that we need.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:04

Absolutely. Another thing I wanted to mention is like, I think sometimes when people are like when they're working with someone that might that may be further in their journey, there's sometimes like that person doesn't always know everything. And don't be afraid to try new things. I wanted to say an example. Um, you know, we were I was moving the light around in the museum, and uh Ace was like, hey, why don't you move the light over here? And I'm like, ah, it probably won't look good. And then we moved it there and it looked good. And I'm like, Ace, I was wrong, you know, and Ace wasn't afraid to, you know, speak up. And it's like, I just I really encourage that to people because sometimes though you might work with people with egos and that and they might be a little afraid to like suggest, you know, and I'm always speaking my mind, probably to my detriment. But like but like, you know, if if I see something, I'll I'll mention it, you know. Um, but I just feel like people shouldn't be afraid to, you know, because that's how you know it makes you feel good. It makes you feel like, oh shit, like I I I'm on set, I I did something good, I I can do this, and that gives you motivation to keep going.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:21

Yeah, it yeah, it lets you know that you can you're built for this. Yes, and that's exactly the type of crew that I wanted to build. I'm glad you said that because I wanted, again, everybody that was down, an ego less crew. You know what I mean? Even when we when we doing the interviews, I try to live it to y'all to make sure quite everybody get around the questions in at least, you know what I'm saying? They just try to create an environment that I mean shit, this y'all babies too. Y'all invested, you know what I mean? Y'all ain't out here for no reason. Um, so yeah, this is we all in this thing together, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:48

The way I look at it is the only thing that matters to me is this is the success of any project that I'm on. I I tell it, it don't matter what it is, whatever project I'm on, I'm only married to the success of the project. I don't care who it is, I don't care who I'm working with, I don't care what job I'm doing, I don't care where we are, I don't give a fuck. I want to be a part of something that takes off. It don't even have to take off. Just go from a thought process to fruition. Once it's at that, I'm happy. You know, like I've been a couple of times where I've been on set, and that's why I speak my mind. And it's not a matter of just blurting out, hey, I think no, just understand the people you're working with, understand yourself, and just be true to yourself and the project. That means if you don't see being a part of that project, sometimes you gotta step away. You know what I'm saying? The money may be there, but don't lock yourself into the money. Because you lock yourself into the money, you're gonna miss the beauty of filmmaking. Lock yourself into the success of the project. If that means I gotta go get coffee, if that means I gotta make food or wash dishes, if that means I gotta hold the equipment, if that means I gotta talk to the people, whatever has to be done so my team can make the shit happen, let's get it done. And that's that's that's it, that's it for me. You know what I'm saying? Like that's that's that's just it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:15

I love you. I uh I'm uh sorry, Bryce, the the reporter, the journalist sent me is is uh wanting to ask a question. So uh just to bounce it around the room real quick, we've been working on this project for about a week now. Uh real quick, what has been your favorite moment uh shooting this thing? Getting on the ground out here in Athens, Ohio, running around with cameras. What's been your favorite day or moment or scene? Uh yeah. Dig back in y'all memories and give me something good.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:47

I'm gonna be real straightforward with you. I don't have a favorite moment. This whole event has been an amazing experience for me. Um I don't get these opportunities. Well, I haven't had these opportunities, I should say, not say get them, because I don't speak you know negativity of myself. This opportunity for me has just been amazing because I was in such a place where at one point I was looking to get rid of my equipment. Like, I'm like, yo, I'm not making no bread, I'm here in my mom's crib in a room. I'm 45, I got no girl, no. But I got no, no, no, my it's like my friend group is is falling over. It's like I'm literally alone. But then when I met my cousin and you know, I was able to connect with family with this, that was the biggest thing for me. Just having somebody that can relate to the mindset that I have. A lot of people are not gonna gravitate toward or understand you as a filmmaker. You know what I'm saying? You're the weird one, but I like being around weird people, is the normal motherfuckers that I'm scared of. You know what I'm saying? Like, so for me, every moment of this was just is right. Thank you, thank you. Sorry. Yeah, we got a long way to go. But hey, I'm cool with that. Every moment of this has been an experience that I will cherish forever. From the day I got here to this moment right now, there is no favorite part. I if by me saying this has been a favorite moment, I feel like I'm discrediting, you know, what we are doing. I this whole thing from going to the museum to us hopping out the car and in the rain having a conversation with Dr. T. You knew who she was. I'm like, who the hell? You looked at her, she looked at you, Bryce looked at her. I'm like, what's happening here? We in there, it's pouring rain, and they're having a conversation, but that person is so in LinkedIn to the whole story, and we met them off a whim. These are the things that you know I'm saying, this is this is beautiful for me. So there is no One moment. This whole just being a filmmaker, just to say that I am now living what I've always dreamed to do in this moment is all I care about. So there's no one man, this this whole thing has been just it's been an eye-opener, it's been an awakening for me. This has kind of been a baptism for me in a sense. It may sound crazy, you know, because even if I don't get another job, I will remember this for the rest of my life. And this is gonna this is really pushing me to be better. Not just a better filmmaker, but a better person. Because I'm I was kind of a recluse or I was kind of like isolating myself a lot. And that doing this and really betting on yourself sometimes can put you in that space of isolation where you don't want to be around anybody, and you dive so you get so isolated for so long, you forget that you actually have to live. You actually have to go out and do these things. So I'm getting long-winded, but no, this is amazing, bro. Yeah, man, like for anybody out there that's that's looking to do this, I'm nobody knows who the hell I am. I don't care if you do know who the hell I am. But as long as you've seen something I did or was inspired by something I did, or we was around each other working, and I shook your hand and me shaking your hand, put a smile on your face, bro, I'm I'm good. So, this whole thing, this this whole experience, and I'm I want more. This has got me wanting. This got me hungry. This brought my hunger back into all filmmakers. That's why I say put yourself in uncomfortable situations. Uncomfortability and struggle is where you find out who you are. A man doesn't know who he is until he has faced adversity. And filmmaking will show you who the fuck you are in every way, shape, and form. And if you if you fold behind it, it's not meant for you. And there's nothing wrong with that. But you gotta be honest with yourself. You gotta really look past the reflection in the mirror, look at who you are, and say, okay, this is or isn't for me. Fuck what anybody else says, fuck the money, fuck all that. Is this for me? Is the one question you have to ask and answer yourself. And in filmmaking, especially when we was on that field running with the gimbal chasing down Brandon, it's gonna, it's gonna it's gonna tell you who you are in this game. So you just gotta listen.

unknown 1:30:35

Right on.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:35

I was about to say that was your favorite moment for a second. I just I just knew it was coming.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:39

No, that bro, that was my least favorite moment because uh shit made me realize how old I am, bro. That's uh man shit.

unknown 1:30:47

What you got, Brandon?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:48

I was gonna say that was beautiful, Ace. I love that. Um, and and I had a few comments real quick. I think uh, you know, you were saying, you know, does if if people don't know who you are and stuff, like it, and I know you know, but it like I I stopped caring about that stuff. Like it never matters. Like, I used to think that I you know I I really cared like if other people knew who I was as a filmmaker and stuff, but no one in the end, like no one really cares about your film.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:19

Yeah, nobody cares.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:20

Like, there's gonna be some people that care about this film, but the majority of people don't care about it, right? And like we have to care about it, and you know, as a as a as my like having my role, like I get to like go to project to project, and and sometimes I live with projects for a long longer period of time. But it's like I just stopped caring about what people thought of me and how they view me, and like like you just said, just enjoying, and like this is a memory that I will never forget either. You know, like it's all about the experience of making the thing. Facts, you know, that's the best part. Like it's awesome when the film's done to be like, fuck yeah, this is awesome! And if it wins awards, it wins awards, and if it, you know, if it if it's fruitful for everyone involved and like people watching it, and it raises awareness, like that is icing on top of the cake. Like, that's amazing, that's what we want. But for me as an individual, I know that like the biggest joy is when I'm here, we're filming, and we're in the process of it. Like, that's the best part. And for my favorite day, I agree with what he said, but I'll give you a favorite day. Uh, I think maybe the first day, just because it was all new to me, and we did so much, I was really, really tired at the end of the day. That was the 16-hour day we did. I'm glad I was here for that day. Dude, that day was crazy. I know. That was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:55

I I thought we were done at like eight, and Randolph's like, and I'm like, that's the one, that's the one thing I learned about Randolph, especially when we was in New York filming the chess documentary. We had got a whole bunch of interviews. Randolph was like, oh, so you're gonna go to oh, you want to the match now? And it's like nine o'clock. I'm like, and he's just gonna go. He's like, yeah, let's go. I'm like, we're going? Yeah, we're going up. Yeah, yeah. And it you don't want to, but you're glad that you did. When you it is, you don't, he's like, you you kind of don't want to, you and you know it's coming, but that's what that's the beauty of working with my cousin, is like he's willing to go just a little bit further.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:37

And that's what you gotta do. Like, I had a guy in AOD tell me, um, and I'll never forget it, uh, I posted a video about I forgot what I posted about, something. And he per he sent me a personal message and he said, yo, man, he's like, This is why you're gonna gotta go places, is because you always go the extra mile. And I'm just like, wow, like thank you so much. And it's like, it's because you care. It's because you care. And and if to anyone, anyone that doubts themselves or thinks, you know, that they're you know, like they're just starting and they they can't figure it out, it's like you just have to care and keep trying. And you know, as you said at the beginning of this, like you're working your ass off and you're sleeping on couches and and doing BTS, which is an amazing strategy because you meet so many people. And I used to be against that stuff. I used to be like, well, I don't want to do BTS because I don't want to just get keep getting hired for BTS. Right. But you enlighten me like you get to practice and you get to get shots sometimes that the the DP's getting. That's your free throws. And I'm just like, damn, I didn't think about it like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:46

Or, or, or like, not even that. What happens is it be they look at your shot and be like, you know what? I like the way he framed it up. That's exactly what happened. You never know. The journey is more, the journey is the beauty of the destination.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:01

You get to show off, you get to show you. Get in your bag, get a practice, and you're you're you're creating.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:05

And you're not afraid because you're doing BTS.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:08

Exactly. You get to, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:10

Sorry to cut you off. It's like basically if you're doing BTS and you don't have to worry about. This is what I'm telling people, yo, just go. Just get up, and if if you you thought about doing it and you wanted to do it and you're afraid, you're already there because you thought about doing it. You know what I'm saying? And doing BTS and doing these things that may seem like, you know, below-level jobs and not the big wig, fuck that. Now there's no pressure on you. You're on a set where you don't have no pressure. That's the beauty of doing the being a BTS, or oh, they need a production assistant, or they need somebody to just go get some fucking donuts or pick up somebody's clothes. You're on a set without the pressure of being on set.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:58

And you get to practice, you get to learn. Like what I used to do, I'm sorry to cut in, but when I was acting, I learned everything that I learned about gaffing on set. I used to do background acting. So I was on um Daredevil, the the Daredevil project doing background acting. The scene where they was in the the um, they were in the church and it was that scene, and I watched a young lady because the primary actor was sick, they picked somebody out the audience and she got the role and she got a long, it don't matter. Like, just get up and go. You never fucking know, bro. I'm on set, I get there at four o'clock in the morning. My call time is not so eight o'clock, but I get there at four o'clock in the morning because I don't like being late. I'm sitting out there, there's a lady that comes to me, she's in the dressing department, the clothing department, the costume department, I should say. Everybody calls her mom. And I never really knew her name, I just knew her as mom. But she's like, baby, what are you doing here so early? I was like, I'm just here to see what's going on because I love this stuff and I want to be an actor. And she's like, okay, so she showed me around, I got to meet some people or whatever. So while I'm there, you know, I'm watching how the gaffers are bringing out the stuff they truck. I'm looking at, oh, how they got their C stand set up. Oh, what's this? Oh, that's the um, that's a clamp. That's you know what I'm saying? Just put yourself where you want to be. Because by putting yourself where you want to be, you're telling the universe, whatever you subscribe to, God, whatever you subscribe to, you're letting the higher powers know, and also yourself know that you belong there. And because you belong there, you will be there eventually. Just keep fucking going. Right. That's it. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:48

So And you put yourself in the position when opportunity and luck greet each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:57

Well, yeah, man. I'm sorry, cuz I just I yeah, but um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:01

You know to it, that's dope. I I really dig both of y'all answers with the uh the the all-inclusive. You dig everything about the project that's far, dug the first day or 16 hours ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:14

I just hate the fucking rain. Like that's just a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:16

Yeah, man. We just probably stuck in the house right now because it just didn't rain.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:19

Uh it's still beneficial because what we do.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:21

No, honestly, we never had like a bad day. No, like even our off day was productive, which is yesterday. You know what I'm saying? We we look at it, you know what I'm saying? Locate your scouting. Uh old went to the spot, met Dr. T, the whole shebang. Like every day it's been something strong. Uh man, yeah, this whole thing has been a ride. Like, I I think I've loved, I've loved every minute of it, man, waking up and just getting after it. I think we really hit a groove. We hit a groove since the since the beginning. But I felt really good about uh that tour day with David at his crib. But like it's it's still so much more to shoot, bro. Like we got, I think Juneteenth, bro, we're about to have a party. Like that's gonna be a lot of fun. We're gonna come back out here, shoot some more. Uh man, we gotta bake the cake in his edit. That's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:13

Fun, fun, fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:15

Yeah, talk to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:16

I take that back. Now that I'm really thinking about it, at with Gavin and Brandon and the family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That right no matter of fact, yes. Yeah, that was good. That was a personal eye opener for me. Yeah. You start realizing that your life is no different from anybody else's life. They just live in a different region. Yeah. We are all have, we all some people sometimes we're all fighting the same demons and we don't even know it. That's true. So me being in with that family just to see what they fought through, what they've been through, what they have, is that that, yeah. And just it really, it was kind of a correlation with my life and my family and how I looked at their family. I was like, damn. So yeah, that I matter of fact, the whole thing was a great journey and it was a great experience, but I I really gotta say, that moment for me, when during the interview, that really, I'm not gonna speak on it because that's very personal. Not just for me, but for them. But that was a real, real, real eye-opener for me. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, that that that's the favorite part of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:26

But this is gonna be a very powerful film. Like, that's why I want to document so much. That's why, that's why you're here, that's why Wes is here. Like, I it's just gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:33

Oh, shout out to Wes, man. West, yeah, Wesley. Dope be a yo, dope photographer, man, dope video, dope dude. Yeah, just a dope all-around dude, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:44

Graduating next year, and got a job already. I mean, that's he making his check. So, yeah, I wanted to build the crew around dope people. We definitely got, you know, three of them, uh, including West. And I ain't have bad either. Um, it's gonna be a beautiful film, I think, when it's all said and done, man. Um we've been we've been we've been sweating. We've been sweating. And shout out to A.O.D. for making this all possible. This is not an ad.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:13

They didn't shout out to AOD for bringing me and Randolph together. And then and now Ace. And Ace, you need to join AOD.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:20

Yeah, I got I got get that money up. I'm yeah, yeah. Maybe Mark will let you join for free. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:25

Give us the homie hookup, Mark.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:28

I'm gonna be kicked out before I get in.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:31

Nah.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:31

But yeah, I mean, I think is there anything else you guys want to talk about? I feel like that was really solid. We've been talking for an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:37

Just the mo the other thing is I think this is something that a lot of people struggle with. I struggle with personally. Um family and friends, the people that are around you. This is not a journey that people understand. This is not something that is for everyone. So, with that being said, don't let nobody talk you out of your dream. Because I know I've heard had people talk me out of my dream, oh, how you gonna make money, how you gonna live, how you gonna eat, what you gonna do, where you gonna live? It was an analogy about the story of the wolf and the dog, and I heard um a while back, and I'd heard it recently too. Um the wolf came out the forest and ran into the dog, and the dog was chained up. And the dog said, Yo, come with me. The dog was loose at night and met the wolf. And the dog's like, Come with me, yo, you never go hungry again. So the wolf was walking with the dog and noticed a leash on the dog's neck and said, What's that? He said, Oh, my master changed me up at night, but I get all I want to eat. The wolf looked at the dog, said, Nah, I'm good. Walked right back in the forest, and his ribs was touching, he was hungry. Sometimes to be free, you have to experience that hunger, that pain. You have to be willing to roam alone to be free. You know what I'm saying? You gotta understand what your chains are. You gotta understand who your chains are, because sometimes the chain's not just physical, it's the people that's around you keeping back, keeping you back from where you want to go. So just take that walk on faith, just take that leap. Walk, walk, be that lone wolf for a little while. Because when you are by yourself and when you're alone, that's when things are moving for you to be where you want to be. It's an uncomfortable process, it's an uncomfortable journey, and it may take longer than expected. The timetable is never in front of you. Just enjoy the journey. That's all I gotta say.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:43

That was great.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:45

That was great. Yeah, uh I remember people, I told people when I worked at Walmart I wanted to be a filmmaker, and they were like, uh They laughed at you. They laughed at me. And uh now I'm doing it. And he's laughing now, Dan.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:04

I don't know why I looked at your camera. Can't even see me. No, that was Dan, that's why.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:14

You know what I just thought of, man? Clap it up, man, homeless dude. Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:27

That's it's not a good life. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:31

Holy shit. Man, oh my goodness. Nah, man. I this is this has been dope. No, we we're just gonna start it. Uh we're very early in this journey, man. This is uh uh, I don't know, what are you, six days in or whatever is you in? Long way to go, chopping up the film. So happy it's working. I hope y'all get something out of this, y'all. Get out. Take the bet. Better yourself yesterday. Yeah, do it. If you man, if you want to do it, jump off the porch. It's happening in real time. Facts. Every each and every one of us has done it. Uh, we can speak from real ex like real life experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:10

Right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:11

Um we're waiting on you. Come on with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:16

That's great. Alright. Um, yeah, I don't think I have anything else. I might cut, I'll probably just cut it here. Cool. But yeah, that was great. That was a great conversation. Don't you guys feel like it was?

SPEAKER_03 1:45:29

I thought we'd be solid.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:31

That was solid. I'm glad we waited. Wait for the second one. That was great. We didn't we pretty much covered everything I wanted to cover.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:39

Yeah. You got any more questions?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:42

No, I mean, we covered pretty much everything. Like, we we talked about, you know, starting and and doing jobs that we weren't very happy with, right? And we talked about I mean, and I don't want to segue too far back, but yeah, I mean we covered it all. Like, I just want the stipulation of like, you know, when you see someone with like good work, it's like it doesn't mean they're working all the time. Or it doesn't mean they're super successful. Like, I guess that was one of the things I I wanted to mention was like the the the the the really hard truth about documentary filmmaking is like there is never a budget. And it's like there is sometimes, but whoever's giving you the budget has a hand in the project. And sometimes it's a heavy hand and sometimes it's not. And um it's it's it's hard to make a living just doing projects that you love to do. A lot of the time we have to do work that we don't like and we don't show it to anybody but the client. And um, that's okay. Like that's what we gotta do. I talked to uh this this uh DP out of North Carolina that I I like his YouTube channel, and I messaged him on Instagram and I was like, dude, can I pay you, you know, 50 bucks to talk to me for a half hour? And he's like, You don't gotta pay me. Here's my number. And I called him and I talked to him, and he said something I'll never forget. He said, He said, We always never show the work that we get paid for. Yeah, he's like, he's like, those three films that I have on my YouTube channel, 399. Everyone thinks, yeah, he he he lost money. And he he's like, and everyone thinks he's got eight more floating around somewhere, those are it. Yeah, wow. And I was like, yeah, I you know, and that changed my perspective to where it's like, you know, it when you're watching shit on the internet, it's never what it seems. It's like people think that I travel around all the time and film docs. I don't. I make it like I I I guess I don't I don't like lie, but like I I want it to kind of seem that way because I want you have to pr you have to project yourself a certain way.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:02

You have to be that person.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:04

Yeah, because people aren't gonna hire you if they don't see that you're working, it's weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I I I I share my my work when I'm working, and sometimes I'll share like like old work because it oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:18

Just a jug memory, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:20

Yeah, oh yeah, him. And then maybe they're doing a project and they they hit you up, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:48:25

Yeah, it's a whole lot of that. No, I mean, perception is a trip. Like, uh a lot of people think I'm I don't live in Cleveland, like because I'd be I'm I'm always gone. Oh, Randall, you're in town. I'm like, yeah, I I I live here. Um and it's perception that you you know, stay with a job and got money and all this other thing, you know. And it's like, nah, bro, like the hiring. That's the real, you know what I'm saying? Oh man, like, and we're just trying to get it, everybody's trying to get it. When they do, hold on to it, snag it, embrace this moment. That's why I'm out here with a smile on my face every single day. Cause, you know, shit, man. You know, you never know what can happen next week in two months or whatever the case may be, man. You gotta soak in a lot here. Yeah, dog. Man.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:21

That's a right.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:22

All right.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:23

Like off.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:24

Uh, that was great, man. That was great, fellas. We only had one camera to uh