From Talos to Sentient Sausages: Our Complex Relationship With AI - Part One

Artificial intelligence has existed as a concept since ancient times, with examples like Talos in Greek mythology and golems in Jewish folklore representing early ideas of sentient, mechanical beings.

• AI history spans from philosophical explorations by Descartes to Alan Turing's foundational work in the 1950s
• The first chatbot, ELIZA, was created in 1966, challenging our perception that AI is entirely new
• IBM's Deep Blue defeating chess champion Garry Kasparov in 1997 marked a significant milestone
• AI offers medical benefits including precise tracking of skin changes for cancer detection
• Current AI excels at logical tasks but produces clinical, emotionless creative output
• Technology like calculators and AI may cause us to lose skills as we become dependent on them
• Education should incorporate AI into curricula rather than prohibit its use
• Pop culture has explored AI through characters like HAL 9000, Johnny 5, and WALL-E

Transcript

Welcome to Bonus Dad, Bonus Daughter

Speaker 1 0:00

Hello and welcome to Bonus Dad. Bonus Daughter a special father-daughter podcast with me Hannah and me, davie, where we discuss our differences, similarities, share a few laughs and stories within our ever-changing and complex world, Each week we will discuss a topic from our own point of view and influences throughout the decades, or you could choose one by contacting us via email, Instagram, Facebook or TikTok Links in bio.

Speaker 1 0:31

Hello and welcome to another episode of Bonus Dad, bonus Daughter podcast via email. Instagram, Facebook or TikTok Links in bio or Spotify and other audio streaming platforms are available.

Speaker 2 0:44

Hello audio listeners. How are you today? I hope you are well.

Life Updates and Holiday Plans

Speaker 1 0:48

What are we going to talk about today, Hannah?

Speaker 2 0:49

We are going to talk about artificial intelligence. Indeed.

Speaker 1 0:53

Indeed.

Speaker 2 0:53

Intelligence of which I do not possess.

Speaker 1 0:56

I know I said this is going to be a two-parter, but I genuinely don't know if it will. It might be a one-parter, it might be a two-parter. We'll just have to see how it goes okay. So we're pre-warning them already that this possibly could be a two-parter this could be a two-parter, because I did do quite a lot, bizarrely enough. Bizarrely enough, I got ai to look up everything about ai because we don't use ai already for all of our podcasts?

Speaker 1 1:20

not all of them we do the games, we don't the games. We don't games. We don't now the games, we don't the games, we don't. No, but Everything else. But before we talk about that, before we talk about, jump straight into the episode. Have you got any life updates?

Speaker 2 1:33

Booked a holiday.

Speaker 1 1:34

You booked a holiday?

Speaker 2 1:35

Yes, Going away in September for mine and my husband's 10 year anniversary of being together, not married. No, it'll actually be two and a half years. We've been married by then.

Speaker 1 1:46

Other than that, you went away with your mum, didn't you?

Speaker 2 1:48

Oh yeah, I censored myself.

Speaker 1 1:50

We literally just, we just spoke about this. We've just been talking about this.

Speaker 2 1:53

I went to Wales, that was pretty cool. Saw some mountains. Saw Snowdon. Didn't go on it. Saw it because the weather was too poor and everyone was injured. Yeah, I had a whale of a time, See.

Speaker 1 2:04

I like that. See, that has actually filled me with a little bit of confidence about you and your mum. What the fact that you actually determined that the weather was too bad so that you didn't go up.

Speaker 2 2:14

Oh yeah, we are the epitome of safety.

Speaker 1 2:16

Yeah, well, are you though yes? Are you though yes? Because quite often, you and your mum do things that do terrify me.

Speaker 2 2:25

They're only terrifying to you because you're scared of them.

Speaker 1 2:27

I'm not scared of them, I just risk assess things. Yes.

Speaker 2 2:32

It's fine.

Speaker 1 2:32

Like last time we went up to Snowdon.

Speaker 2 2:33

I've told that story before I think you have yeah, I have yeah. So I still have yet to conquer Snowdon. I still haven't.

Speaker 1 2:42

You've never actually been up there, nope.

Speaker 2 2:44

I've never been on a mountain, yet I've only ever been on peaks.

Speaker 1 2:47

Really, yeah, not even abroad. You've not been on a mountain.

Speaker 2 2:50

Well, I don't think so. Oh, okay, can you, in my history of Come to think, of it no.

Speaker 1 3:03

I can't think of any time where you when you go to Tenerife, there's a volcano. You could go to the volcano. We didn't go when we went to Tenerife, but there is a volcano there.

Speaker 2 3:12

We're going to Tenerife and we're actually hiring a car out there so we can explore the island. We're also going to Sion Park, which is a big water park there.

Speaker 1 3:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2 3:25

It's very rare that mitchell and I go away on holiday and not go to like some sort of park or theme park, but yeah, this is actually. This is our first ever all-inclusive couple holiday. Um, we've been on holidays, just us two, a lot, but never all-inclusive. So I'm gonna get me a massage. Yeah, I want to be like. I just want to be. It's adult only hotel as well. I just want to be pampered oh, are you sure?

Speaker 1 3:46

have you looked up the hotel?

Speaker 2 3:48

I have.

Speaker 1 3:48

If it's an adult only hotel, are you sure that it's on the level?

Speaker 2 3:52

what do you mean on the level?

Speaker 1 3:53

because there are some hotels in tenerife right that are swinger resorts. Oh, you might just want to check that out. When it says adult only hotel, you might want to check that out because that was something that was mentioned to me and your mum when we were in tenerife. The hotel we stayed at wasn't, but we did hear from people there that sometimes, when it says it's an adult only hotel, it's an adult only hotel for a reason oh well, this looks really posh and really nice, is it?

Speaker 2 4:22

I'm sure it does. Are they masquerading as a? Well, you never know. Oh well, I'm not putting my keys in a bowl as is there anything is.

Speaker 1 4:28

Are there any pineapples?

Speaker 2 4:30

oh yeah, it's pineapples, isn't it? Yeah, what's the keys in the bowl thing? Is that swingers?

Speaker 1 4:33

yeah, I think so. Or is that just orgies in general? Well, I don't know, I've not really been involved. I'm actually really glad that you don't know the answer to that, to be honest, okay.

Speaker 2 4:42

Are you shocked that I might know the answer? That I don't know.

Speaker 1 4:45

Yeah, uh, moving on um, yeah, so you might just want to check that I mean it's only got 150 rooms. I suppose 150 couples swinging, I suppose just just might want to just double check that, just to be on the safe side we just wanted no children there.

Speaker 2 5:00

Like is that is that too much to ask?

Speaker 1 5:03

okay, maybe massage doesn't mean massage either yeah, just just just have another little look at that, just to be on the safe side.

Speaker 2 5:14

If they are like I don't mind, I just don't want to participate.

Speaker 1 5:17

Well, exactly, yeah I mean, I mean that feels like a crime.

Speaker 2 5:25

That's a crime, right, that's a crime yeah, I mean to be fair.

Speaker 1 5:28

If that's your thing, then that's your thing, you know, and there's nothing, no judgment here at all, but just not for me, thank you. It was actually Tenerife that we.

Speaker 2 5:38

Swung for the first time, dear God. Do you know? What's lovely about this conversation is that we're father, daughter and we can have this without it being awkward.

Speaker 1 5:50

See, this is what, this is what is good about our relationship, because we we can have these conversations and just have a laugh about it and it is quite funny. Um, but it was. It was in tenerife when I did that. Um julio, get the stretch joke.

Speaker 2 6:01

It was there yeah, I actually thought about that when I booked it did I was like I wonder if we'll ever meet someone called Julio and I'll have to recreate the yeah that just Sorry, I'm branding Recreate the.

Speaker 1 6:12

Other fast food restaurants are available.

Speaker 2 6:13

Yes.

Speaker 1 6:15

Product placement and all that jazz. Yeah, that fell completely on deaf ears. I thought it was hilarious. I was chuckling to myself.

Speaker 2 6:21

I think that's one of those dad. Oh my gosh, it's a dad joke. I heard the best dad joke ever the other day. Do you want to hear it? Go on, if you ever ever get an email from me with the subject line canned meat, just know it's spam.

Speaker 1 6:36

Oh, for Christ's sake.

Speaker 2 6:37

That's abysmal. That is actually abysmal. That's terrible. I got chuckle out of me on instagram.

Speaker 1 6:43

Maybe I'm a dad I got another one of those text messages again the other day. One of those ones said hi, dad, this is my new number. Ah, I get. Yeah, do you get them occasionally?

Speaker 2 6:54

do you? Do you think you have a secret, like child out there? Oh, definitely not you're very confident with that yeah, I'm glad.

Speaker 1 7:01

I'm glad you're confident with that.

Speaker 2 7:02

Yeah, definitely not always rub it up. Yeah, anyway, um, that's where the line is crossed.

Introduction to Artificial Intelligence

Speaker 1 7:08

Yeah, there's a line. Yeah, so that's your life update. I'm going to a swinging resort. Um, I have a life update oh yes, aware of this life update no, you are aware of this life update because you are actually going to help out on this as well. Oh, Christ. Because we have now got the gig booked. Ah yes, so on the 3rd of October in the year of our Lord, shameless plug AD. I know Shameless, shameless plug.

Speaker 2 7:34

Go on 2025.

Speaker 1 7:37

Do you know what? At the Adrian Flux Waterfront in Norwich, mammal Not Fish are doing their 10th anniversary show and it's going to be massive.

Speaker 2 7:45

A lot of 10th anniversary things this year.

Speaker 1 7:47

There are a lot of 10th anniversaries.

Speaker 2 7:49

So I will do the courtesy of not only putting up the poster, I will also put a link in. If anyone is Norwich-based or not Norwich-based, I suppose and wants to come see your gig, I can put it on our thing.

Speaker 1 8:04

I'll do that for you. We've got some great supports. I'm not gonna say who the supports are, because they will be announced later on, uh, in a couple of months time can I cough it? No there you go no, you know, you did you. You actually just said it. No, I didn't you did. No, I didn't, you did I. I heard you say who, one of the sports was, I literally coughed yeah, but you know who they are, don't you no?

Speaker 2 8:27

I literally just coughed. That was all I was doing all right, because you do know who they are one syllable thing one of them is yeah, oh, I feel like we might have just revealed it then, yeah, I just kind of, I literally, I honestly, I swear, I swear to God, I was just coughing. Okay, as a joke.

Speaker 1 8:44

Yeah, so yes, so yeah, 10 years. So Mammal, Not Fish, has been going for 10 years. As of Hannah and Mitchell, yeah, that's nuts, isn't it?

Speaker 2 8:53

It's weird that you started the same year that Mitchell and I got together. How was that? Met up, married up?

Speaker 1 9:00

I don't know. I don't know because we formed at Ferry Fest that year also, archie is 10 years old this year.

Speaker 2 9:03

Archie's 10 years yeah, archie the dog.

Speaker 1 9:06

I know should we put a picture of him up.

Speaker 2 9:08

Yeah, let's put a picture of our Archie. Here's Archie, my furry brother. Yeah bless him not furry furry as an animal yeah an actual animal.

Speaker 1 9:17

Again no judgement no, no, so we are. I. I mean some of the songs we're doing. We're doing our entire pretty much catalogue, all the way from like really early stuff. We're even rewriting one of our very early songs that isn't Scar, because when we first started off we didn't know what we were going to be, but what's the one particular song, crazy.

Speaker 2 9:37

Daisy.

Speaker 1 9:38

No Over my Dead Body.

Speaker 2 9:39

Over my Dead Body. Yeah, great song.

Speaker 1 9:41

And you know the guitar screech that Peach does in the chorus to that.

Speaker 2 9:46

I'm going to go with yes.

Speaker 1 9:47

Okay, pierre's going to do that on sax. Oh, so then Peach can then do the chucks underneath. It's going to sound amazing. It's going to sound absolutely awesome.

Speaker 2 9:55

So you're rewriting one of your songs to actually do it in the style that you actually do.

Speaker 1 9:59

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 10:00

Are you doing we? Only ever performed that song once I think I am a hair, then a six foot walkie.

Speaker 1 10:08

Wake up, sure, sure yeah, yeah, we're doing wake up. We can't do wake up wake up yeah, yeah, we were doing that the other day and then he fell over wake up's got to go yeah what about?

Speaker 2 10:19

we own the we own the we own the no, no, no, no. Do you know where that song came from? Do you know where Corona? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 10:28

Yeah, it was when COVID was really a thing and we started off in the recording studio and we were all just chanting Corona, corona, it's not beer, it's dangerous. And the song got born from that Born song got born from that born, born the song was born from that.

Speaker 1 10:43

Yeah, jack was just pissed himself laughing in the studio when we did that and we're even going to play interlude, oh so the song that we actually wrote in the studio, which is completely instrumental. Nice, peach freaked out. He went oh my god, I can't remember how to play that. It's like yeah, you can, you'll be fine, you'll be fine, you'll be forced against his will?

Speaker 2 11:04

is it the full, complete band, no substitutes.

Speaker 1 11:07

No substitutes. The full, all original members, ogs. Ogs Come back from the grave we never had anybody come in, though, to help out. It's always been.

Speaker 2 11:16

Did you not have? Was drummer not replaced a little? No, Joe's always been the drummer. I thought Joel did one of your gigs once.

Speaker 1 11:24

No, joel was going to. I think he was like Joe was poorly or something. Yeah, joel was on standby.

Speaker 2 11:29

Oh, he was on standby because Joe was poorly.

Speaker 1 11:31

Yeah, but no, no, Joe's always been. I just suddenly thought well, maybe Because Joe has now finished his degree. Has he graduated? He has graduated.

Speaker 2 11:39

Has he graduated?

Speaker 1 11:40

He has graduated, has he?

Speaker 2 11:41

thrown his hat in the air.

Speaker 1 11:42

He has thrown his hat in the air. He has graduated. He is now a fully fledged archaeologist, specialising in pottery.

Speaker 2 11:49

So he's Indiana.

Speaker 1 11:50

Jones. Yeah, Joe is Indiana Jones.

Speaker 2 11:53

Indiana Joes.

Speaker 1 11:54

Indiana Joes, yeah, and Benji on the trains. Do you know that? No, benji works on the trains though. No, yeah, that's cool, yeah, so no, he still works For Great Eranglia. No, no, he still works where he works, but the weekends he does the Burr Valley Railways, sort of like the old steam train.

Speaker 2 12:09

Oh, that's pretty cool. Yeah, he does that. Yeah, he's basically Francis. You know the train spotter guy.

Speaker 1 12:17

Yeah, francis' last name is something I can't pronounce Bourgeois Bourgeois French, I think, but he's a national treasure I love him.

Speaker 2 12:25

Oh my gosh, he's great, he's amazing. I think he might be. What's it called? I?

Speaker 1 12:29

just realised this is now definitely going to be a two-part. We're like 12 minutes in and we haven't even started the episode yet.

Speaker 2 12:35

Francis is going to be the new host of the Grand Tour.

Speaker 1 12:43

Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, yeah, I saw that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there are a couple of life updates there. You holiday, just a couple, just a couple, uh. So shall we dive in, dive into the episode and start talking about artificial intelligence?

Speaker 2 12:54

I think we ought to yeah because we have.

Speaker 1 12:56

We have mentioned it a few times, haven't we? Yeah, um, it comes up periodically in other episodes and in different things, so I thought let's do well. I say, this episode has actually been written for quite a while and we just not really got around to doing it. So I thought we'll just do a whole episode on AI. Oui, oui, yeah. So I looked at the ancient concepts of AI because, bizarrely enough, you might think AI, you might think artificial intelligence, is quite a new thing, but it's not. It really isn't. It's been around.

Speaker 2 13:27

I think as a concept, as a concept. Yeah, as we know, ai today is quite new.

Speaker 1 13:34

Yeah, I mean it's sped up, hasn't it?

Speaker 2 13:37

Accelerated crazy.

Speaker 1 13:38

Yeah, that's the word I was thinking of. The whole concept of artificial intelligence has completely accelerated in the past few years and it is starting to come into everyday life as well. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 13:51

I don't. Even if someone's totally against using chat GBT, which I know some people are environmental factors, job losses etc, etc. Whatever your views are on that, probably won't go into it. Just go more surface level as we often do. But um, you'd be surprised to learn that ai is used for a lot of things. So, um, ai is used when you are job hunting, because job cvs get ai'd summarized. People use it in emails. People use it for all sorts of things automations, etc sorry I had.

Speaker 1 14:26

So segue yeah, segue, no. It's to do with job applications, so it's a funny story. So I received a job application from somebody, uh, who'd need want to be interviewed for a job, and when they'd actually filled their application form out, they'd copied and pasted the whole thing from ChatGP team.

Speaker 2 14:43

Right, so they had the little first line bit.

Speaker 1 14:46

Here you go, including the question they asked it and then a little bit later on, and then they asked it another question, now please add in this section. And they literally just copied and pasted the whole thing and slotted it. And I thought that is the epitome of laziness. Idiot, I mean, I don't, I completely understand, you hire them no, I completely understand using ai, because we all use ai. I use it quite a lot as work as well yeah, yeah, yeah but play around with it a little bit yeah do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 15:16

yeah, you know chachi pt has this really cool function called canvas, which means that you can go in, you can open the thing that it's created and then you can edit like individual paragraphs and sentences, which is pretty cool. Oh, I think it's pretty cool anyway. Um, yeah, I use ai in my job, my, my job. Um, sometimes I need it to help me write emails to clients if, uh, if the subject matter is a little sensitive or something like that, or you know, I've it. Yeah, I do use it pretty much almost daily at work, to be fair.

Speaker 1 15:46

Yeah, I use it quite often. Yeah.

Speaker 2 15:49

So I guess we are pro-AI in that sense. Yes, I'm pro too.

Speaker 1 15:53

I think it's got its uses. I think it does have its uses within society.

Speaker 2 15:57

I don't know if we're coming up to this, but there are like lots of medical advances that are happening with AI. There's this scan that you can do. You can have a whole body scan and essentially what it's looking for is skin cancer. So it categorizes and maps all of your moles and then, if you go again, it will notice the changes that a human wouldn't be able to necessarily know from one year to another. A human brain can't remember that information, know from one from one year to another. Like a human brain can't remember that information. Um, I guess you could have a doctor that looks you up and down and writes every individual mole and measures them. But ai is so much quicker, um, at just you know identifying and you know there are a lot medical advances in that. Again, I don't know if we're touching on this later, but we will be there are, there are pros to ai and I know there's a lot going around about.

Speaker 2 16:40

I understand that it is taking jobs and it's taking, uh, I guess, the art of human intelligence of actually coming up with something yourself and yeah creative fields as well. Although I don't think it's intelligent enough yet to make a song, write a book, it there's still something wrong with it.

Speaker 1 16:59

Like it's, it's never a hundred percent, and I think that's what a lot of people don't seem to it's logical, I think we're to go down, to go down like a philosophical view, a viewpoint it's you know because you are. Is ai sentient with? That's the difference, I think. Is it sentient? Is it thinking for itself, or is it just collating data that's already there and churning it back out in another format? That's the difference.

Speaker 1 17:23

Because, the whole point of I think, therefore, I am is AI actually thinking, or is it analysing data and then putting it forward?

Speaker 2 17:34

I think that there is high debate, but I always think that the people that are often saying, oh, you know, it shouldn't be using creative fields, probably haven't used it because it does not churn out the best result it doesn't I've tried, as in jokingly tried, um, like we did the mad libs, for example, and there's a couple of things I had to change and I was like what are you doing like that?

Speaker 2 17:55

yeah, that's not right. Um, yeah, so it's. It's not quite there yet to write full, fantastically written novels or full, you know. It's not quite there yet to write full, fantastically written novels or full, you know.

Speaker 1 18:05

It's very clinical because I asked it.

Speaker 2 18:07

Yes, it's clinical I think is the best way to describe it. Actually it's very surface level, but also academic, I guess, in that sense rather than creative. Yeah, rather than creative.

Speaker 1 18:19

Yeah, I mean, I asked it to write me a song, and don't get me wrong, the cadence was there, the, the, you know, the, the patterns, everything, everything was in there. But when you're actually reading the lyrics, it was like this this actually means nothing nothing, yeah yeah, there's no emotion behind it, there's no feeling behind it, it doesn't.

Speaker 1 18:36

It was just almost like it, like like it was written by ai you can see it was I mean is that something that could AI become sentient later on down the line? Is it something that might be?

Speaker 2 18:47

Are we going to have AI pop stars?

Speaker 1 18:50

Possibly. I mean, we already kind of have, really, what do you mean? Well, you know, because AI isn't just chat, gpt is it? You've also got the AI image, and that's where we come on later on, where it could be perceived to be quite dangerous in that respect, regarding deep fakes and all of that. But, yeah, I think, I think it's, it's like a lot of things really. I think it's, it's useful, it would be, it does save time, but, like everything we invent, it can be abused. And that's where you've got to kind of draw the line a little bit and go, because human beings just can't be trusted with shit at the end of the day. You know, we just can't be trusted with this kind of quite often with these types of technologies, because we abuse it.

Speaker 2 19:34

We do, we do we abuse it, and the fear is always going to be that AI will take over. You know.

Speaker 1 19:40

Yeah, there is. I mean we'll probably in the They've got their own language, haven't they?

Speaker 2 19:43

Yeah, jibberlink.

Speaker 1 19:44

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 19:45

Did you see that? I did see Jibberlink. Yeah, the three phones all talking to each other. I was talking to Mitchell about that the other day. Yeah, that was nuts, that was yeah. To like something was to like authorize something, and then there was a tool in there to stop the authorization of something. So there was the three. So some one thing was contacting another thing to authorize, like an identification process or something, and then there was a one in the middle that was that was designed to essentially block that from happening yeah and it recognized that it was talking to an ai bot yeah so the ai recognizes like oh, I realize I'm talking to an AI bot.

Speaker 2 20:21

Yeah, so the AI recognises. It's like oh, I realise I'm talking to an AI system. Basically, let's go to our own language.

Speaker 1 20:25

Yeah, and that was like the one that I saw was I think it was a company was trying to book a hotel room for someone else, yeah. And it was the same thing. And the AI bot recognised that the booking system was also an AI bot and they both said on their send oh, should we switch over to Jibberlink to streamline the process?

Speaker 2 20:46

And then you just said like it almost sounded like if a human was underwater. It's a weird language Like, it's like. I imagine that's what dial-up would have sounded like if it was a human. That's what I think it sounded like, because we only had the Like that thing and I reckon that's Can you remember dial-up?

Speaker 2 21:13

This is the thing, like obviously it was just in the cusp of my memory. I'm not sure if I remember it or if it's just loads of things that I remember the concept of dial-up, but do I remember the noise? No, I think it's just because.

Ancient Concepts of AI

Speaker 1 21:26

I remember that noise. Yeah, I remember that noise. What dreams are made of? Yeah, shall we um? Yeah, let's kind of go through this yeah so, um, I looked at kind of where know where the whole concept of AI came from and there are a couple of really ancient concepts Go on. So the first one is in kind of Greek mythology. So this is kind of your bag, this is your bag, it is my bag and Talos.

Speaker 2 21:54

Yes.

Speaker 1 21:54

The giant bronze automatron.

Speaker 2 21:57

Yes.

Speaker 1 21:58

Was a big old mechanical servant, so essentially they were robots, and this is going back to ancient times. And this whole idea that this was a sentient being that was made by humans.

Speaker 2 22:11

Yeah, just into Greek mythology, because I do know a little bit about the story, although not massively. I can't pronounce the name. Are we going with Hephaestfestus, hefestus? Hefestus yeah created talos um, as it was like a bronze, um kind of like a bodyguard, essentially for crete, that's what he made it for it was to protect crete.

Speaker 2 22:34

Um and I. I can't remember if it was to protect crete now or now that my brain is kicking into gear, or whether it was to stop people from leaving crete. I can't remember now which way around it was, but he's um. He's one of the most misunderstood gods because all of the he's one of the 12 olympians yeah um, and he is the one that's responsible for basically making all of the weapons so, like zeus's bolts, for example yeah apollo's arrows, yada, yada and uh.

Speaker 2 23:01

He is the only god in greek mythology, because gods are supposed to be perfect, perfect beings. He's the only one that has a disability really yes.

Speaker 1 23:09

What was his disability?

Speaker 2 23:10

um, he has, um, basically a gammy leg, like I don't know how else to say it in another way, but in scripture like it's different depending on what you read and what stories have been told and how it's been interpreted again in modern modern life. But essentially there is something wrong with his leg, um, and it's it's supposedly something to do with the fact that because he's like making stuff all the time and he's leaning on that particular leg, that's kind of like he he's developed a limp. In other things he's got a shriveled leg. In other depictions he's like in in statues and stuff, the leg is just missing, like there's. There's so many different stories about his leg, um, but yeah, he's the only disabled god in greek mythology, so sorry.

Speaker 2 23:50

Fun fact for everyone there um, because I was looking into. Um, yeah, I was. Well, I'm very interested in greek mythology, so yeah um. So I happened to look into that one because I was like I wonder if there's any disabled gods just for my own self, just for giggles. Yeah, just giggles, really um, yeah, and he's the only one sorry, there's also in jewish folklore as well.

Speaker 1 24:12

There's a thing called a golem yeah, so golems.

Speaker 2 24:14

I think that's what I was thinking of, the word I was thinking of, when I was thinking of um, like a, like a something to protect something. I think golems were made out of clay.

Speaker 1 24:22

They were yeah.

Speaker 2 24:24

And they again were sent to protect the village. They were a protection model and they always have been to well protect them against, I guess, who they thought were evil or who they thought were coming to attack the village.

Speaker 1 24:36

There is actually a supernatural episode about a Jewish golem.

Speaker 2 24:39

Yeah, I think golems are also in Minecraft, but don't hold me to that.

Speaker 1 24:44

Yeah, so they, I mean so they're straight away. You've got kind of early, very, very early kind of things of AI, that is kind of artificial intelligence, the golem and also Talos.

Speaker 2 24:58

Yes.

Speaker 1 24:58

So going back to ancient ancient times? Oui, there's Mitchell, look, yes, so going back to ancient ancient times? Oui, there's Mitchell, look, hello, mitchell's here.

Speaker 2 25:05

Hi, hi, hi hi.

Speaker 1 25:06

Did you want to come and say hello, Mitchell?

Speaker 2 25:08

He doesn't want to come and say hello, he doesn't want to come and say hello.

Speaker 1 25:15

So going to some key dates. So run through some key dates regarding AI.

Speaker 2 25:20

Let's go.

Speaker 1 25:21

Yeah, there is. Between the 17th and 19th century there were theorists like Decretes, Leibniz, Descartes. Descartes Sorry sorry, my eyes went a bit funny then. I was too busy trying not to laugh at the next name, leibniz. No, ada Lovelace. Oh Because, yeah, there's a lady called Ada Lovelace. Oh Because, yeah, there's a lady called Linda Lovelace.

Speaker 2 25:45

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 25:45

Yeah, and that's why I was just trying not to laugh at that, I won't go into that. And they discuss mechanical reasoning. So this theory was kind of there between the 17th and 19th century, this kind of this idea that there were machines with kind of thinking and reasoning behind it day car was very much um on this bandwagon um I can't offer more more knowledge there.

Speaker 2 26:08

Sorry, uh, it's actually gone from my brain, but yeah, I remember studying day car and I know that he, yeah, he had a lot of, he had a lot of theories about this, um, none of which I can remember right now.

Speaker 1 26:20

See Hannah always preps for our episodes.

Speaker 2 26:26

Well, my brain's working.

Key Historical Milestones

Speaker 1 26:27

But then, of course, in 1950, Alan Turing. You know who Alan Turing is?

Speaker 2 26:33

Yes, I do, yeah, Turing, yeah, so he, yeah, I mean he's known for the Turing test and he's known for again, basically, code cracking.

Speaker 1 26:41

Yeah, he cracked the Enigma code.

Speaker 2 26:44

The problem with Alan Turing is that he was absolutely, completely, he was actually Was he jailed and stoned.

Speaker 1 26:51

He was jailed because he was homosexual, which is terrible. Do you know? They offered Alan Turing an option to not go in prison, and it was to have what's it called that?

Speaker 2 27:04

therapy, realignment therapy or something or other. Yeah, like conversion therapy.

Speaker 1 27:07

That's it. Conversion therapy yeah Awful, absolutely disgusting.

Speaker 2 27:13

I think I would have chosen jail as well, but yeah, so poor guy. So he basically gets more recognised now than he did in his life, which is sad.

Speaker 1 27:21

Yeah, it is sad.

Speaker 2 27:22

Yeah, I mean he published, I'm glad he gets the recognition, but a little too late.

Speaker 1 27:27

He published Computing, machinery and Intelligence and that proposed the Turing test for machine intelligence. Yeah, so, yeah, so he kind of was a very big pioneer of AI.

Speaker 2 27:36

Someone could say that he's the founding father.

Speaker 1 27:39

Yeah, it has been said. Yeah, it has been said, yeah, it has been said that he is the father of artificial intelligence. It was only six years later, in the Dartmouth conference, led by a guy called John McCarthy, and he was the one who officially coined the term artificial intelligence.

Speaker 2 27:55

Any relation to Lyndon McCarthy.

Speaker 1 27:57

I don't think so. I don't think so.

Speaker 2 27:59

Maybe they made an intelligent sausage.

Speaker 1 28:01

Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 28:02

Intelligent sausage Mm-hmm. An intelligent sausage, but a vegetarian one.

Speaker 1 28:06

Yeah, oh, that's so. You make a sausage. That's intelligent, therefore making it alive, linda McCartney. Now, that doesn't work.

Speaker 2 28:15

An artificial.

Speaker 1 28:17

An artificial intelligent sausage.

Speaker 2 28:20

So then could you argue, An artificial intelligent vegetarian sausage yeah, but could you argue Intelligent vegetarian?

Speaker 1 28:23

sausage. Yeah, but could you argue then that it's actually then vegetarian, because it thinks, therefore it is?

Speaker 2 28:30

what a, what a philosophical today. Let's take that to daycare. Yeah, let's see what he says, so have a think about that one.

Speaker 1 28:36

So creating a vegetarian sausage, that's sentient that's sentient. Therefore, it's no longer become, it's no longer vegetarian, is it?

Speaker 2 28:44

depends your definition on a vegetarian, I suppose as well meat.

Speaker 1 28:48

Well, you know, you know what I mean. It's actually lack of meat. Yeah, so it's because you could even argue, because some could you could even argue that some Meat Well you know Meat. You know what I mean. It's actually lack of meat, yeah, because you could even argue that some plants are also sentient. How does the sun flow and know where the sun is? Is that a level of intelligence? Oh, we're going down a dark rabbit hole now.

Speaker 2 29:07

I don't think anyone would ever eat if that was the case.

Speaker 1 29:11

Exactly. So yeah, because plants do, don't they? Plants live, plants live, so plants are growing. So could you argue that plants are, actually they do have life? What do you think to that, bobby dazzler?

Speaker 2 29:26

I. I don't know how we got from. Well, I do, actually I. It was me, linda mccarthy I derailed us again. Yeah I think we should move on because we're getting into a strange.

Speaker 1 29:35

So 10 years later, 10 years later, in 1966, eliza, the first chatbot, is created lovely yes, so, bearing in mind, we're now 2025 and what was?

Speaker 2 29:49

that I was just being a little robot. I was being eliza, you're being like yeah so I don't know why it has a weird accent.

Speaker 1 29:57

Carry on so we're 2025, uh, and this was 1966. So we're talking. What's that? 50, 60, 60 years ago? Yes, so the first chatbot was 60 years ago. That's mad. And we're still saying that artificial intelligence is quite a new thing.

Speaker 2 30:12

That's so mad.

Speaker 1 30:13

Where it was. It was you know. So it was really started to be thought about 70 years ago by Alan Turing. 16 years later, the first chatbot was created. Yeah, and now we're where we are. Where we are, do you?

Speaker 2 30:25

remember those little men that they used to wind up. They're like autotron things, weren't they?

Speaker 1 30:33

Yeah, I remember seeing a horror film about them as well. Okay, so then in the 1980s it started to kind of gain popularity and use in business and healthcare. But in 1997, IBM.

Speaker 2 30:51

Oh, the big bag boys.

Speaker 1 30:53

Yeah, they created a system called Deep Blue, ibm, which is, yeah, big bag boys. Yeah, they created a system called Deep Blue and that defeated a chess champion. So it was an AI system defeated a chess grandmaster poor Gary. But again, that's when we go back to what we were saying before logic yeah so it's working things out. It's logic, it's kind of a logical way of doing it. Uh, then in 2011, ibm's watson, which is another program, wins jeopardy against human companions a game called jeopardy in america ibm were making shit, weren't they?

Speaker 2 31:26

well, you know um 2001 space odyssey.

Speaker 1 31:30

There was. You've ever seen that Stanley Kubrick's Space Odyssey? Sure, okay, I'm sorry, dave, I can't do that. That computer, yeah, is there. Its name was Hal.

Speaker 2 31:41

Hal.

Speaker 1 31:42

Hal, and look at where the alphabet is I-B-M-H-A-L. It's one letter back.

Speaker 2 31:47

Cheeky, yeah, yeah, what about, um, what about? Uh, it was actually. I was in a lot of media. I was thinking of red dwarf, the hologram oh, what um holly yeah, holly, and hilly, well, hilly and holly and then obviously later, we had they're all dead dave, everybody's dead dave, everyone's dead dave, dead dave, everyone's that's mine, that's mine, that's mine, um and then also um I was thinking of is it I robot? Yeah will smith great movie that was a sentient robot.

AI in Media and Pop Culture

Speaker 1 32:14

That was a sentient robot.

Speaker 2 32:15

And then all the sentient robots went crazy and started killing humans.

Speaker 1 32:18

Yeah.

Speaker 2 32:19

Ultron, but Sonny was emotionally intelligent.

Speaker 1 32:23

There you go, there you go. There could be the difference. And Sorry, carry on, oh God. What was Jesus? Carry on, oh God. What was Jeez? Oh God, what was Steve Guttenberg film Johnny, number Five Short Circuit.

Speaker 2 32:36

Oh, short Circuit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, do you know, short Circuit. Oh, and also Flubber.

Speaker 1 32:40

Yes, Flubber.

Speaker 2 32:41

Yeah, he had lots of robots. Because she fell in love with him, didn't she? She did.

Speaker 1 32:44

The little pink robot. Yeah, yeah, robin Williams. Oh, wally, yeah, wally, much later.

Speaker 2 32:54

Eva, eva, eva do you think Wally is basically Flubber, but later probably?

Speaker 1 32:59

when the world has gone to shit.

Speaker 2 33:02

Well, tomorrow, no, wally is the Wally, because it's like set quite into the future yeah it's basically Flubber could be, but it's. It's the long. It's basically Flubber Could be, but it's the long-ended sequel of Flubber.

Speaker 1 33:21

So we've got yeah, let's move on. Derailed, derailed. And then in 2012, which is a year later, the deep learning revolution begins with a guy called Geoffrey Hinton's work on neural networks. So again that kind of brain pattern, neural networks, google beats. Alphago beats Go Champion Lee Sedol in 2016. So you can see it's starting to kind of speed up.

Speaker 2 33:46

I've not heard of any of these, have you not? None of these chatbots I've ever heard of? Alphago is no.

Speaker 1 33:52

Well, see, this is the thing a lot of stuff happens, goes on in the background.

Speaker 2 33:55

That we don't know about.

Speaker 1 33:56

So, when you think about keep us in the dark, when you think about the stuff that's being worked on now, we probably won't be seeing for another. The technology is already there.

Speaker 2 34:10

I think the first bot I ever heard of like domestic bot I ever heard of was ChatGPT, which obviously came in 2022. 2022, yeah, now that's the first one I ever really heard of. But now we've got Gemini Copilot loads of different ones. Claude is another one. You know, there are so many different ones out there, yeah mad.

Speaker 1 34:32

I mean even Grammarly.

Speaker 2 34:34

Oh, Grammarly, yeah, technically. Grammarly, yeah, yeah technically, yeah, AI bot.

Speaker 1 34:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2 34:37

Which is a weird one for me, because Grammarly, apparently, it looks through the tense of the thing that you're writing, especially if you're writing prose or something like that.

Speaker 1 34:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2 34:47

It will check your grammar and spelling, but it just goes one that one step further and texture checks your tense, texture, your third person, first person, second person, I can't I can't remember what the actual intelligent word is for that but it, but it checks all of that as well, and I just think that is really clever. But can, is it? What's the word like? Is it well? Is it right? Is it correct? Well, because I feel like that is something that a human would be able to do better.

Speaker 1 35:16

Yeah, I mean, this is it and this is where a lot of things, where this is one of the biggest debates of ours where we forget, not forget things, but we lose that skill because things are made easy for us.

Speaker 2 35:27

Yeah.

Technology and Lost Human Skills

Speaker 1 35:28

It's that whole thing of I mean, even like when you go back to being hunter gatherers, when you see it on like tiktok videos, you see it on like those survive lists, well, that that kind of information and that we would have known about and we would have just done a second nature like farming and all of that. But because things are made easy for us by technology, we lose that skill set. So if that technology was to go, we would be completely screwed. Yeah, and it's like even like driving and sat navs.

Speaker 1 35:56

We never used to have sat navs, we used to have maps out and all that. Where, what, what would do before we'd go out on a journey. We would work the journey out before we went and see which we would go right down. So we need this road, that road, that now I just put the sat nav on and you just follow it and you just you don't have to think I was actually going to make a point about calculators yeah, okay now calculators obviously been around for a very, very long time but, I would say they're probably the first model of losing that ability to do something.

Speaker 2 36:28

Because I don't know about you, but when I do maths in my head, I do the maths, I think I'm right, but then I check it on a calculator anyway, just just to make sure, cause I don't trust myself if it's correct and I think I remember doing my exams GCSE this was. We're going back quite a few years for me, now more for you.

Speaker 2 36:48

But, yeah, there's. There's a maths exam that you do without a calculator, and then you do a calculator exam, and I remember distinctively Nana saying to me oh, like you know, back in my time we didn't have a calculator exam, like that wasn't like a thing, and so we had two separate ones. And I'm wondering if now today, do they still do two separate exams, or is it all on the calculator? I don't know.

Speaker 1 37:10

It's been a while. It's been a while. It two separate exams, or was it all on the calculator? I don't know. I don't know. It's been a while. It's been a while. It's been a while. I'll ask my younger peers See, this is another big argument as well about so, when people write dissertations or write essays, the use of AI and you know, is it because and they use AI to determine whether AI was used. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can tell yeah.

Speaker 2 37:34

What I think they need to start doing in schools I think we've discussed this before is teaching using AI in an effective way to do something. So, instead of saying don't use AI in this exam, why don't they say something along the lines of let's see how we can develop something in AI with this exam? They need to make it part of the curriculum, as opposed to going you can't use this at all, because the way the way the world is going, like we've already said in this podcast is that you know, we'll get to a point where it's taking away that ai is taking away that, that original skill that we had, and therefore I can't really speak now. Maybe I need ai to speak for me, um, uh, so yeah, so they need to make it part of the curriculum, as opposed to saying no, you can't use it in this exam like they need to. They need another way of thinking about it yeah, it's, yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 38:27

It is moving with the times yeah, not no university level.

Speaker 2 38:30

I'm talking like more, like when you're at, you know your primary and high school. Maybe not primary, that's perhaps a bit young but yeah, the high school side. They need to incorporate it into the curriculum as opposed to saying no.

Speaker 1 38:41

Well, when I was at school I did do computing and that's one of the reasons why I dropped out of school is because when I was in the sixth form, because I was in the sixth form, because I was kind of forced to go down and you know, I wanted to be a creative person, I wanted to do drama, I wanted to do acting, and of course family was like no, there's no money in that. You'd go into computing. And it was the wrong choice and I wasted a year of my life because I realised I'd made the wrong choice. But I did learn a little bit about coding, a little bit about databases. Didn't give a flying toss about any of it because it didn't interest me in any way, shape or form. But when I think about basic, when, when kind of learned basic, how to write programs in basic. And then there was a thing called turbo pascal which we were kind of writing in as well that rings a bell.

Speaker 1 39:25

I don't know what that is, but that rings a bell. But that was. That was like literally coding line by line by line. But it meant nothing to me, because that's not how my brain was wired.

Speaker 2 39:35

And now, sadly, that's probably outdated and that's probably written by some other engine.

Speaker 1 39:42

Yeah, probably written by, I'm assuming. Yeah, written by.

Speaker 2 39:45

And maybe that language is actually redundant now.

Speaker 1 39:47

Completely redundant.

Speaker 2 39:48

Perhaps I don't know.

Speaker 1 39:49

Because I remember, as I say, we wrote in BASIC and then BAS perhaps I don't know because I remember, as I say, we wrote in Basic and then Basic went away and it became Turbo Pascal, right, and that's one of what we were kind of writing in. But then, as I said, I then dropped out and went to drama school instead and had a much better time, so but that kind of but I've kind of forgot where I was going with this now yeah, I was talking about calculators.

Speaker 2 40:07

I don't know where we got.

Speaker 1 40:08

We have completely gone off on a.

Speaker 2 40:10

On rail.

Speaker 1 40:11

Yeah, shall we go back to the script.

Speaker 2 40:16

Yeah, we were just talking about. Sorry, no, I brought up the point about using schools. They should use it as part of the curriculum, that's where you went with that.

Speaker 1 40:24

Yeah, that's where I went with it, I remembered now.

Speaker 2 40:26

I am paying attention.

Speaker 1 40:27

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 40:29

Oops, Actually shall we? We could end here on this diabolical note.

Speaker 1 40:35

We could actually, because we are 40 minutes in, and then we could look at, because the next section is the future of AI and what's coming next.

Speaker 2 40:42

Yeah, let's do that.

Speaker 1 40:43

Let's do that, let's do that, let's do that.

Speaker 2 40:45

Okay, if you enjoyed this episode of Bonus Dad, bonus Daughter on artificial intelligence, we have others that are related to artificial intelligence and more intelligent than this one, mostly written by AI, as well script-wise, but we are authentic. We are not AI videos.

Speaker 1 41:02

We are authentic humans, or are we, or are we, or are we, or are we. Do we actually exist? Do we think, therefore, we are?

Speaker 2 41:10

Yes, yes, we do. Yes, if you enjoy this episode, we have plenty more in the bank and um. Have a lovely day and uh. See you next time. Cue the outro. Thanks for joining us on bonus dad, bonus daughter. Don't forget to follow us on all our socials and share the podcast with someone who'd love it. We, we, are available on all streaming platforms. See you next time.