Astrology, Fortune Telling And The Psychology Of Belief

What makes a reading feel true even when it’s wildly vague? We dive into tarot’s 78 cards, the allure of astrology, and the subtle mechanics that turn symbols into stories we swear are meant for us. Along the way, we compare the warmth of a face-to-face reading with the cold clarity of texts, and we unpack how tone, posture, and microexpressions shape what we take as meaning.

We widen the lens across the divination toolkit—palmistry, scrying, crystals, numerology, psychometry—and then step into today’s digital bazaar where TikTok time travellers and livestream mediums meet a hungry algorithm. From Edgar Cayce’s trance readings to Uri Geller’s spoons, from Sylvia Browne’s TV fame to the Fox sisters’ confessions, from Madame Blavatsky’s theosophy to Nostradamus’s multilingual riddles and Baba Vanga’s mythos, we explore how each figure reflects a moment’s anxieties and hopes. The pattern that emerges isn’t supernatural certainty; it’s human longing for reassurance, direction, and connection.

We also grapple with the bigger, messier questions: afterlife or oblivion, reincarnation puzzles and population growth, simulation theory and mythic underworlds. Not to solve them, but to see why purpose matters when answers don’t come easy. Some readings comfort the grieving and help people move forward. Others exploit vulnerability with inflated claims and high fees. Our stance is simple: stay curious, set boundaries, and know the difference between insight and inevitability. If you’re seeking meaning, ask what you actually need—closure, perspective, or a plan—and choose guides who honour that.

Liked this conversation? Follow the show, share it with a friend who loves a good mystery, and leave a quick review to help more curious minds find us.

Transcript

Welcome Back And Tarot Recap

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to Bonus Dad.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Bonus Daughter, a special father-daughter podcast with me, Hannah.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

And me, Davy, where we discuss our differences, similarities, share a few laughs and stories. Within our ever-changing and complex world.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Each week we will discuss a topic from our own point of view. And influences throughout the decades.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Or you could choose one by contacting us.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Via email, Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok. Links in bio. Hello and welcome to another episode of those two.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Just wreck the place, Hannah.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

I hit our sign because uh father asked me if I was ready, and then I said I was ready, but then I realised I didn't have a clapperboard, so I actually wasn't ready, uh, forgetting that we had a clapperboard. Anyway, hi, this is part two of um fortune telling. Uh fact. No, not not fact, fate. Fate or fiction.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Fate or fiction. Fate or fiction. Fate or fiction. In the last episode, we finished off with the tarot reading, didn't we?

SPEAKER_00 0:54

We did.

Astrology Basics And Compatibility

SPEAKER_01 0:54

We did indeed. So just to give a quick recap on last week's episode. Yes. We spoke about the tarot cards and we did a little bit of a tarot reading. We did. But one thing that I didn't mention is that tarot cards have 78 of them in total. Yes. They're not a deck of 52, 78 cards.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

And and I noticed that because when I was starting shuffling them, I was like, cool, this feels a bit more than a normal pack. And they're and the longer as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yes. In card shape. And they do have what's called the major arcana or arcana and minor arcana, which we kind of touched on previously. Uh and they uh and as we said, they the actual tarot cards started as a game. It was just a game. It was yeah, it was. Just like Ouija boards. Yeah, so other types of fortune telling and practices. There's also astrologies.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Yes, I'm a Leo.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

You're a Leo? I'm a cancer.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Yep, your mother is a Libran.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Yeah, she's a Libra.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

I think Mitchell's a Taurus.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Is he? Is he a Taurus? Are you are you gonna message him?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

No, I'm gonna Google it. I know his birthday. I think anyway.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Yeah. So of course, with astrology, you have the birth chart. He's a Taurus. He's a Taurus. He's a Taurus. Yeah. Uh birth charts, you have the zodiac signs month by month.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Well, no, they're not but not but calendar month.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

They're not calendar months now, though. They kind of go from like the 22nd to the like the 22nd, aren't they? Something like that. Was it? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Uh something like that.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

It changed recently, didn't it? Because did it? Well, not recently, within the last like ten years or so, because um because of how the stars how they originally calculated them is not as good as the maths we have now. So they slightly shifted them all along a little bit. Oh right. Yeah, it's it's a thing. Um did you want to know how um compatible you and mum are?

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Oh go on then.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Libra and cancer are considered a mixed bag, high effort pairing, often rated with a moderate compatibility of 60 to 70 percent.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Because Libra is the uh is an air sign ruled by Venus and Cancer is the water sign ruled by the moon. Their relationship combines intellectual social energy with deep emotional sensitivity. They are both cardinal signs, meaning that they are natural leaders and initiators, which can lead to a dynamic if something competitive or happens within their relationship.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Would you like to know Leo Taurus?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Compatibility. Leo and Taurus, fire and earth, share an intense, passionate and loyal connection, often characterized by mutual love for luxury, stability, and devotion. While they face challenges due to stubbornness and different communication styles, they can build a long-lasting, powerful relationship if they compromise and embrace their differences.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

I'm sorry, just go back a bit. There was a word beginning with S. Is it saying that you're stubborn? Oh no, is it saying that you're stubborn?

unknown 3:43

No.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Intense, passionate, and loyal connection often categorized by mutual love for luxury, stability, and devotion. Oh yeah. While they face challenges due to stubbornness, I was like, I didn't read stubbornness. Yeah, I did. Yeah, you did. Yeah, I'm a stubborn human. You are indeed. I can be. Yeah. Uh I'm willing to change my views. That is that is the difference. But if I know I'm right, if I know I'm 100% right, I'm stubborn about it. Yeah, yeah. I won't let it go.

Horoscopes, Vagueness, And Media Nostalgia

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah. Anyway, sorry. Uh and we also mentioned so astro astrology is quite a big thing, isn't it? I mean, you used to read the you know horoscopes. The horoscopes, yeah, horoscopes, which I mean there was back back when I was sort of quite young, they had like we had the Sun newspaper, and in the Sun newspaper we had Mystic Meg.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Yes, Mystic Meg. I remember Mystic Meg. Is she in the Sun?

SPEAKER_01 4:30

She was in the Sun, yeah. And she would give you know, give you horoscopes for the day. Yeah. But again, like we were saying, like with the tarot readings, they're so vague. I mean, okay, so how many I mean, I don't know how many billion people there are on the world. So you're telling me, you're telling me that a twelve, you know, that horoscope is going to apply to one twelfth of the pop of the entire population of the world.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Well, they're so vague that yes, it probably would. Do you know that's how Luke and Laura I met in Gilmore Girls? She wrote on Luke's horoscope, You Will Meet an Annoying Woman Today. I really hope. Is it Charlotte's listening to this?

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Yeah, yeah, Charlotte's listening to this. Lottie will know. Yeah, she will know. She will know. Well, you need to get her on. I know, she doesn't want to be.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

We need to meet properly.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

She she does want to come on. She it's funny because she comes into my office in the morning, she goes, I'm halfway through.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

I have a couple of friends that tell me where they're at, actually. Yeah. We should come home the other day and was like, I listened to Pets. I was like, Oh, you've caught up.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

In fact, you know, I can't remember which one it was. She said something to me the other day and she went, You you've got that wrong. And I was like, Well, I can't, I can't even remember what it was now.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

I love it when you get things wrong and I don't.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Yeah. Oh, that's funny. Stubbornness. Yeah. And Benji often messaged me and says, like, oh, I'm nearly caught up.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah. It's almost like they need to prove to us that they listen to us. And I was like, we don't actually care. No, we care, we care. We but just like, yeah. You do it in your own time. Yeah. I don't have time to listen to our own podcast, let alone anyone else.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Um so yeah, me and me and Benji had a chat the other day, and things are moving forward with a couple of things.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Uh you're just as cryptic because the horoscope's there, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

In his relationship? No, no, no. Some of the projects, I mean Benji didn't work on it.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Okay, okay, okay. I thought you were hinting there that like that there's been an engagement or something.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

No, no, no, no. A couple of projects I'm gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Sorry, Benji, I didn't mean to put that pressure on. I know you're listening.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

No, just some of the projects that we're working on or that we had an idea to work on. So uh yeah, he's he's got some equipment that we said he was gonna get and he's got it. So uh we'll be doing some work on some some music soon.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Again, if you need a female vocalist that's really low, just let me know.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

I will indeed. Thank you, daughter. Uh so with them from astrology, there's also palmistry, which is the the reading of palm readings, reading on the hands. There's also the scrying and crystal gazing, which is using mirrors, water, or crystals as well. Crystals is another big thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Yes, nana. Nana could tell us all about crystal balls.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Yeah, she's very one spiritualist. Did you know that Queen Elizabeth I used to use crystal balls to foresee political threats? So Queen Liz Lizzie the First did used to use try using crystal balls. I mean a crystal ball, have you ever looked into one? Well uh yes. I that this is just it's just a ball, isn't it? Is there anything inside it? I've never actually looked in one.

Tools Of Divination: Crystals To Water

SPEAKER_00 7:29

No, it's it it you can see your upside down uh you know when you look into a spoon and you're the wrong way up.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

There is no spoon.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Okay. It's an inverted image. It's an inverted image.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Um but people think that they can see more with inside the the crystal.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Not so sure. I'm not I'm not sold.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Yeah, not sold. Not sold. I'm not sold. Not sold. Um but I do use magic eight balls. To make to make life changing to make love changing um decisions. Love changing, life changing decisions. Love changing using the crystal ball. Try again later. Magic eight ball. Uh yeah, the use of water as well. Yeah, using water, and divination using water. Uh then of course we've got the medium ships, which is the communicating with spirits, and we'll come on to a few famous mediums in a little while. Um, numerology. Numerology. Analyzing birth dates, names as well.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah, they're linked to the numbers and how however it comes in the alphabet, and then when you add all the letters together, that gives you your angel number and all that shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

No, I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Psychometry as well.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Where where, say, for instance, I don't know, like your cardigan that you're wearing now, I'd touch your cardigan and the your energy or your and would would tell me things about your vibes would tell you things about it. Much like you know vibe reading. Much, much like when uh when they're trying to find a missing person, they got the dog to sniff the yeah, that feels scientifically a little bit more accurate.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Um but I I see where you're going with that thought. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Not exactly, but I I I get you, yeah, I get you.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

If it smells horrible, they've probably been in a ditch, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Yeah, exactly. So that they're the kind of tools that are being used in this kind of area of so we should should we call it pseudoscience.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Pseudoscience, I like that. That feels very um respectful.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Yeah, pseudoscience. Now the psychology, do a little bit delving into the psychology and the science behind it, but really behind the belief of it. Yes, you know, why why people buy into it and why people believe it. I mean, we want hope. Well, the first thing we've kind of already mentioned is it is hope, but also it's the vagueness of those statements that people then they believe it applies to them because it is vague. You you look for, oh yeah, that could be me. That's yeah, I see how that like you said in the last one with the tower reading.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Oh, yeah, that absolutely applied to me. Yeah, I know I could easily apply that to something going on. Exactly. But meh.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Uh and then we've got which I did mention in the in the previous episode, is the cold reading, and that is observing posture, looking to see how people react when something is said, whether it be negative or positive, and then reading those reactions and then making educated guesses on the back of that, which is your Colin Fry's, your Derek Accorra, your your Darren Brown's as well. And it sounds awful me putting Darren Brown in with those people because Darren Brown is you know, he he exposes a lot of it rather than you know, um, but he exposes it in the way that the others use it um to prey on vulnerable people.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

I think cold reading is also again used in the therapy room. Um, for example, if I'm talking about something and I'm and I'm and I'm doing this with my hands, obviously I'm feeling uncomfortable, but if I'm I'm sitting there and going, oh yeah, well this is this and this is that and I'm flamboyant with my hands, they know I'm feeling okay about it. Yeah. Like it's it's it's yeah, it's it's cold reading is not a bad thing in itself. It's not.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

It's not I do it at work quite a lot. We all do it. I ha you know, within within my job, I when I'm talking to people, I look to see how they're reacting, how what they do, because I need to tailor what I say. Or I mean, yeah, I've I've had people come speaking to me and we'll be discussing something and I'll be reading their posture, reading them how that and even the way they look, where they're you know, everything about them. I'm looking at because I no, I might get these percentages wrong, and I should know this. I really should, but when you're communicating with somebody, only 20%, and again I'm throwing that percentage out there, uh, I think it's a very small percentage, we'll say 20, is the words they are saying when you're talking to someone in communication. The other 80% is body language, tone, eye, you know, all of that that makes up the communication.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

It also helps with how you react to what they're saying as well.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

I'm not the best at reading people, and I'm happy to hold up my hand and say that. Yeah, and then I'm conscious of how I'm gonna react to what's being said. Um and I I internalise that a lot, I think. I think I I go, I rather than responding at all, I'm so worried about responding that I just don't respond. Yeah. Um some people can definitely read it a lot better than others, is what I'm saying.

Cold Reading And How It Works

SPEAKER_01 12:34

I mean, it's when we go on to I think we said this in previous episodes, when you look at text messages and phone calls and way they are, because you're only dealing with the written word, text messages can be completely misconstrued because there's no tone, there's no body language.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Which is my preferred method of communication, actually, because at least it's frickin' direct. At least I know what's being said.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Should we shall we just talk about communication on the phone? Should we just mention what happened on the phone? Was it yesterday or the day before between myself and you?

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Just just explain I knew this was gonna come up today.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Just explain to our listeners and the viewers the communication that happened between you and me two days ago um on the telecommunication device.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

So yesterday I was feeling really poorly. Yes. This is this is the mood I was in, right? Just to paint paint the picture so I don't look a complete asshole.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

I was really poorly. I was laying on the sofa.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

And I get a call from Davy knowing that we'd been talking on the phone for a little bit, so I know he's okay. Yeah. We'd spoken in the day.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Yeah, just yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

I'm gonna preface that that had I thought there was an emergency, I would have genuinely picked it up. Yeah. But we'd already been talking, so there can't have been anything that happened within between the 15 minutes of the origin the first text that we've kind of closed off that conversation fine. Yeah. And then I just get this call through and I and I decline it because I'm feeling pretty wrong.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Straight away. There wasn't even there wasn't no hesitation or I did actually.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

I let it ring for a couple of rings, I must admit. And then I declined it. And then I just sent the message, why?

SPEAKER_01 14:04

But then what did I send?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

You're lonely. And I still didn't call him back. Because I was going off to bed.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

That was funny. It was it was Friday. It was Friday because uh it was the night your mum went out with Becca. They went swimming, see, so I was I was sitting there alone at home and I there was a few things there was a few things that I wanted to kind of go over with you, a few ideas regarding the filming of the podcast and the like. That's one I wanted to talk to you about rather than put it all in a text message. So that's why I rang you. But when you put one, I thought I'm gonna make you feel guilty and just put lonely.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Okay, right. So you wanted to call me about the thing that I told you that I can't talk about because it's not in front of me. You literally gave me all the ingredients for the cake without giving me the frickin' recipe. So excuse me while I don't want to have a call about something that I cannot, I I cannot I I I yeah, I cannot comprehend it if it's not in front of me.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Although your message the other day did make me laugh as well about the chat GPT. Did you see that?

SPEAKER_00 15:06

What chat got and I kept it kept bloody auto-correcting it.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah, and then just underneath it just said Christ alive.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

I went, you could I can't remember what it was, but I was like, you should you you could chuck it through chat GPT, but instead of it.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Yeah, I basically got a message that I didn't was was kind of very scientific. And I was like, I went, I just went, I think this is good, but I'm not sure. And you said put it into chat GPT.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

But instead of saying chat GPT, it kept it kept changing it to G O T, Game of Thrones. Yeah, so it's GOT, then I typed it again and it auto freaking corrected it again to G O T and then I was like GPT and then just Christ alive. That really pissed me off. I pissed myself off, basically.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Oh, that was funny. That was funny. So yeah, so when you got that text message, you can't read you can't read that body language. Whereas what the mediums do is they will be they will be focusing on not what that person is saying, but how your body's reacting to what they're saying. Yes, and they will adjust accordingly. Adjust accordingly, which is why I said before that. Oh, I'm gonna end a message through is it Brian? You might go, okay, not Brian. Um it's not a male, it's a female, and then you open your eye. Ah, so we're on the right line. Microexpressions, microexpressions, and that's how they do it. The other thing is that when we when we listen to things, and we've mentioned this before in like memory, in the memory episode, you've got that confirmation bias as well, haven't you?

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Yeah.

Communication, Texts, And Misread Signals

SPEAKER_01 16:28

So what you will do is you will you will remember the stuff that is meaningful to you or is focus is to you, but not the the stuff that the misses they'll go out your mind. So it's that you will your own bias.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

You'll latch onto the the parts that make sense to you.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Exactly, and that's called that confirmation bias. Um, fun fact for you. Oh, I love a fun fact. That and again, this is where I go like Is it fun? Mmm it's mildly amusing. Uh it's you know, when I say 99% of statistics are all made up.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yeah, this is quite one of those, one of those statistics. Yeah. But between 50 and 70% of people do believe in some form of psychic phenomena.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Yeah. I'm one of them. Yeah, there's a there's a fact there to throw out.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

I like to think that when we die, that's not it. And I know, I know that a lot of people are not gonna like what I've just said. Okay. But I think that gives me a lot more comfort in knowing that our lives have some sort of purpose.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Do you know what? I've always I've always thought about how I think about things.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

I know you think about things.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

I think about things.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

I'm not saying I believe in ghosts.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

I know, but there's the one thing that I always tend to focus we always tend to focus on as a human race is what happens after we die. Right? We don't know. We don't know. We don't we've there's many things that we've heard. We've got the fact that it there is nothing, there's just a dark void, uh, different whichever heaven or god you you want to believe in, that's where you will.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

That's where I draw the line. I don't believe in anything of that nature.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Um somebody believe as well that you become part of the universe.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

I think that's what I think. I think that there is there is more there is more to what happens to your soul, if that's what you want to call it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Well and what is the soul and what is the body? You know, uh are our bodies just carriers for the soul and the soul is the same. That's what I think. That's what I think. Now I've often thought about this as something from the other side. Where were we before we were born?

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Ah, so uh reincarnation.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Yeah, where were we? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Reincarnation.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Possibly, possibly.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Isn't there that kid who knew everything about Barra Island? Yeah, you knew exactly what I was gonna say. Uh he'd never been, never seen a documentary on it, but he knew all about it. He could name people on the island. That's creepy.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

I mean, it could be all fabricated theatrical, but that was bigger.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

But three the other thing is as well. If you believe, if you believe in reincarnation, and this is where I think it kind of falls down a little bit. Sure. Okay, so there are only so many thousand or so many people on the planet, okay? But a population is always growing.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So where'd the extra holes from?

SPEAKER_01 19:15

So where are the extra holes coming from? Yeah. If if reincarnation is a thing. Or is it animals? Is it the whole point of matter can neither be created nor destroyed? Therefore, you spent one life as a dung beetle and you can't do it and they're youhoons, which is why there's more humans and less animals.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

So Which is similar to the Indian kind of caste system, was working the way up, you know, the better you are, the more likely you are to be put into a body that's gonna but yeah. Yeah. But also that places a lot of blame on your past self, if that's what you want to call it. Um and I I don't like that. I uh how why should you be punished for someone else's mistakes?

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

It doesn't quite ring true with the kind of the the Christian idea that or Christian or Catholic in your sense idea that you're brought up with that you're already kind of starting off in sin.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Yeah, I d I don't know. I don't uh I don't know how I feel about it all. I just don't think I just think there's more to the subconscious. I think that's where I'm that's where I come into it. I'm more the psychology route. It's not necessarily I think that souls are real, it's that I think there is way more to the subconscious that we have just not researched or looked into from a psychological psychological point of view.

Afterlife, Reincarnation, And Purpose

SPEAKER_01 20:21

And here's gonna be a a little little little plug for one of my projects coming up with the the Tales from the Mammal from the Tales from the Mammal Frequency one one man radio plays that are coming out soon. I explore that very concept in one of those plays. Um I'm not gonna say which one, it might not be out for another year, but I explore that very concept in one of those short plays.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Oh, damn.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Yes, indeed. Oh, I am because yeah, I mean, you just don't know. I mean, I think we we kind of focus too much on what happens after we die. Yeah. Whereas I I tend to think about the other way and think, well, where were we before we were born? Because you've also got the aspect of the the simul the simulation theory. Okay, so simulation theory that this is all a simulation. Matrix. The matrix type of thing. Um, in which case, if simulation theory is true, yeah, and we are actually just going into an AI, right? How are we choosing which life we go into?

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

As well.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

That's where kind of the sin and and thinker are, which I don't really like the stress on that. Yeah. I've also been thinking a lot about the afterlife recently, and just from writing and stuff, because I like to I like to pull from sort of Greek mythology. Yeah. Um and I've been thinking about a lot about the river sticks. I've been really exploring the whole kind of underworld situation of Greek mythology because the underworld isn't hell. No, it's not. It's just another place. It's a it's a place to store souls. That's what what it is. So my thought was you know, we place a lot of we we place so much um emphasis on soul and being good and all these things. What if souls are n are neither good nor bad, they are just the byproduct. of human so they are just an essence they fill up a river they and then they power the world right yeah yeah they bring about the seasons the moon the sun that that's kind of how I'd like to think the the world plays out but there's nothing that you I know sounds awful but nothing that you do on earth it does not impact your afterlife you know it it's not about sinning and it's it's I think you should be on this earth and I think you should strive to always be a good person because that's how humanity is should be shall we say needs to be perhaps maybe a better way of putting it I think we should always strive to be good and and and and be kind to one another however I don't think that defines how things are going to happen in your afterlife or in your previous life. Like a cycle. Like a cycle a really long cycle and perhaps that that negates what you kind of said about oh you know with the the growing population or whatever I think the cycle is a lot longer than one person to the next person to the next person I'd like to think of it. It it does a little bit of soul searching a bit of travel a bit of travel for it to come round again and wiser again. Or are we getting dumber?

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Well who knows I love that film. All of these are questions. Yeah all of these are questions. Yeah none of these are facts and these are and these are questions that we probably won't know the answers to and they're questions that well if you get an answer will probably raise more questions. And it's fun to explore and he's very fun to explore uh famous psychics yeah let's let's let's rattle through some famous psychics because we kind of went on a little bit of a tangent. Yeah apologies. Yeah I'm gonna no no it was me as well. I'm gonna throw some names out to you now and let's see if you've heard same name same name yeah sorry Edgar Case no I haven't no so Edgar Case his case so yes he uh was uh born in eighteen seventy seven and he died in nineteen forty five and he was known as the sleeping prophet oh my gosh what did he what did he dream he delivered over 14,000 trance readings so he would go into a trance oh okay okay sleeping slightly different to what I was actually thinking yes not trance music like Soul Water by Chicane or he would go into a trance and he would uh read you know things like people about health dreams past lives global events yeah yeah he claimed that he predicted the Great Depression he also claimed that he foretold the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls right okay and he offered insights on holistic medicine years before it became mainstream now but if you look at the medicine when we go back to the witchcraft side of things yeah okay there probably was mugwort and all of that as saying then kind of I anyone that claims to be the father of holistic medicine needs to go back way further into it. Exactly I'm sorry no one can claim that sorry Edgar he's not gonna hear or is he or is he maybe we've got to be careful what we say about these people uh lovely guy nice guy yeah he he knew his shit heir yes so he also he report he uh reportedly diagnosed illnesses without ever seeing the patients in person relying solely on intuition during his transcript oh my goodness Edgar if you're listening exactly I need a diagnosis help me I'm sorry for what I said so not heard of him Ed Casey now what about Jean Dixon? No so Jean Dixon uh was born in 1904 and she died in 1997 year after I was born indeed she apparently foretold the assassination of JFK no apparently so she already Was she the babushka woman?

SPEAKER_00 25:48

On the grassy knoll on the grassy knoll am I right that's a Kate Bush song it yeah but isn't there No that's Baba Vanga you talking about Baba Vanga no I'm not the the Babushka lady is like really high part of the conspiracy.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Oh I don't know I don't know you you look that up while um so she also said that she predicted world events the rise and fall of political figures disasters but again only a few predictions seemed accurate and because of her statements they were so vague they could have been put into they could have meant anything.

Simulation Theory And Mythic Underworlds

SPEAKER_00 26:24

The Babushka lady is an unidentified woman who was filmed Oh so with the umbrella the 1963 John of Kennedy's assassination from the prime location on Elm Street wearing a distinct headscarf she remained standing filming and calm while others drove for the cover f drove for cover her identity and film remain missing does she have an umbrella is that a Mandela effect on my Mandela effect there's no mention of an umbrella but sh yeah the reason being she had a camera that's why they were they were after it they wanted to know obviously what what was on the camera well because she would have taken it from a separate angle that no one's seen before. Yeah yeah but yeah and they called her the babushka lady because I think because of her headscarf.

Famous Psychics: From Cayce To Vanga

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Ah okay I was just making sure that I was I was using the correct correct terminology but yeah yeah I said it was a Kate Bush song Babushka yeah uh sorry carry on Jean Dixon apparently as well she reportedly advised every US president from Eisenhower to Carter at some point basically so sh so she's the president in disguise she's the real president so she she's she was a prophet she was an American president prophet uh Urigella you've heard of Uruguella yeah rings a bell yeah oh yeah it's yeah he's he did a lot of spoon bending and other psychokinetic feats and and the like he appeared on television in the 70s and 80s and he sparked a lot of debates about magic the trickery and all psychic ability was he psychic was he able to do it or was it clever illusion he's still living oh he's still alive oh yeah yeah he's still alive what if he's still bending spoons yeah like the Matrix there is no spoon yes there is no spoon it is not the spoon that bends it's when you realise there is no spoon uh Sylvia Brown she rings a bell she was born in 1936 and she died in 2013 she was a self-described psychic and spiritual medium and she appeared on TV shows such as the Montel Williams show and America's psychic challenge she claimed that she communicated with the dead and helped people find missing loved ones now there was a bit of controversy about her because she was criticised for giving inaccurate information in criminal investigations really not surprised yeah uh she did she did have a very large devoted following and that following kind of brought kind of like the psychic thing to the foreground a little bit now this dude you must have heard of our boy Nostradamus yeah yes so he was he was a French astrologer astrologer uh between the years 1503 and 1566 was his life he's he's I think the most famous one tomorrow he is the most famous the Nostradamus predictions yeah uh he was I say French he was a French astrologer French physician famous for his cryptic what they call quatrains uh so he apparently predicted wars political upheavals disasters centuries before they claimed or before they happened or so people claim we're still looking at Nostra Dharma's predictions now I mean one of Notre Dama's predictions is that we one of the famous ones is the three antichrists apparently we've already had two Napoleon being one Hitler being the second the third antichrist is going to create the third world war Trump well this is it they they said that the I mean one of his predictions is that the third antichrist is alive now and is in within the within the political sphere so if you believe the Nostradamus but also also well I think and again it's very vague could mean anything and I might have got this wrong but if I remember rightly the third antichrist was supposed to be coming out from the Middle East oh um and of course who who knows who knows uh so but with Nostradamus's predictions because they're so vague and also an interesting fact for I don't know I if I wrote it in here uh I don't think I did but I did know that his his predictions were also written in French Italian Latin different languages throughout the thing to confuse it as well to make it even more vague so Master Dharma that's what you're doing. Exactly so it would fit anything so we retrofit a lot of his predictions yeah oh he said this oh it must have meant Simpsons exactly they said this so it's Matt Gurin on here Alison Dubois I've already mentioned in the previous episode she's famous she was born 1972 still alive she's the same age as mum she is indeed the only reason why I I know of Alison Dubois is because I watched this show and it was a TV show called Medium and it was a fictional show and the Alison Dubois was played by Patricia Arquette. Oh I see and it was a TV show it was her solving crimes right and and I knew that it was based off the real life Alison Dubois that's cool uh she apparently claimed to communicate with the dead and assist law enforcement in solving crimes.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Wait so she's she's a real person but she was the inspiration of the TV show maybe she was like the inspiration of the TV person.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah exactly it's like um bones yeah the author of bones I think I remember Medium I re I remember the show it was it was good it was good I think I remember the show yeah she apparently also has uh three daughters who I say apparently she's got three daughters but apparently also has the same psychic ability as her oh damn so yeah according to what she's a whole family of them yeah uh ever heard of the Fox sisters uh no I mean are they anything to do with the the um constellation no no no it's the seven sisters yeah they were born in 1848 and died in 1892 and they were credited with launching the spiritualism movement in the US oh damn and they were famous for it says here wrapping communications from spirits but that would be like they they would funnel spirits through them you know not like not like Eminem Mom spaghetti yeah but they did they actually admitted yeah they actually admitted that it was fake they were fake later on you foxy sisters you indeed then we've got the in the the Russian occultist and co-founder of the Theophysical Society Madame Blavatsky Madame Blavatsky yes 1831 to 1891 bit before our time indeed she actually she said um that she accessed hidden spiritual knowledge and foresaw some social and scientific changes oh she she actually invent influenced quite a lot of the new age movements and I know she was she was kind of a little bit influential in the golden dawn and all of that area with witchcraft as well so then we've got ah I already mentioned her Baba vanga yeah so she is Bulgarian mystic who predicted global events and allegedly predicted the 9-11 attacks and she's often referred to as the Nostradamus of the Balkans oh my she went blind when she was 12 and she then claimed after her blindness that she could see these visions oh damn she's a really I mean we could talk a lot about Baba Vanga.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

We could talk a lot about Baba Vanga what an interesting person yeah I think you should have a little look at when you get a sec.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Oh she died the year I was born she died you know so you could be Baba Vanga of reincarnation I am mildly blind yeah so now we go on to because a lot of that was like what we said about fortune tell it and psychics is when we said about the you know being in the room with the crystal ball times have changed haven't they yeah a lot of it is now into webby yeah so you get a lot of this stuff online yes sticky tocky I've seen them myself yeah you know the the predictions that you get on have you seen the live ones are funny yeah have you seen those um those TikTok videos of people claiming to be time travellers yeah have you seen those yeah so this year in this month this is gonna I'm a time traveller I know I know what's gonna happen yeah yeah yeah it's just like that picture the time traveller picture where it looks like the gentleman's like wearing a graphic tee and he's got like aviators on and they were like yeah that that that t-shirt and those aviators and that hairstyle is just not suited to that era.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Yeah what what if he was just an extravagant man?

SPEAKER_01 34:50

I know but also I don't individuality this is sorry to go mention AI again but you know with photographs with videos I don't know what to believe anymore. Yeah because it's really difficult it is starting to get really really difficult. So I mean I know those photographs that you were talking about were have been around for years. Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah but now you could create that oh yeah you could create that using AI so yeah so modern day fortune tellings we've got psychic hotlines apps as well TikTok and Instagram influencers um but did you know that the actual psychic industry is estimated at about two billion US dollars annually yeah that does not surprise me because I think as well I I think where the psychic industry kind of really excels is when people feel that they've got a problem yeah like a haunted house could be easily described as pipes and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yeah and I think there are I think there is some gullible I I I think there's vulnerability in that and I think that it's easy to prey on people that are in just in touch for answers. Yeah. I will admit that even me going through a diagnostic process I am striving for answers that I could probably quite believe that there is a demon inside me at this stage because that's how it feels like you know I I'm not saying that I'm it I I do think that but I'm just saying that I could be influenced to think that because okay five 500 years ago that's probably what people would have thought. Right exactly you know you know I'm not I'm not saying I've got to those those depths yet but I I but I I'm willing to try and almost believe anything at this point because I'm just so frustrated in that in that kind of circle I can understand why people we will will turn to alternative pseudosciences. I just can I I can understand it.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Yeah uh so just to kind of finish off yes I'm gonna run through some a few c just a few little facts. Oh go ahead a few little facts if you knew so did you know that Cleopatra allegedly used astrology to time her military campaigns.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Yep that was their calendar quite believe that that some psychic mediums claim that they can read emotions from a photograph alone. Uh yeah yeah of course because you're looking at the picture and you can yeah yeah I I don't yeah that's fine. Ah see I told you the first the world's first documented tarot deck was made in 1430s Italy.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Oh yeah that one was that one was 1971.

Internet Prophets And A Billion-Dollar Industry

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Yeah. Uh apparently Baba Vanga who we've mentioned just recently predicted Brexit decades before it happened Wow she is a really interesting character have a little look into her I might I might google her. Yeah uh did you know that fortune telling was illegal in 18th century England but widely practiced secretly and that was part of the Witchcraft Act. Oh damn it's part of the Witchcraft Act that I mentioned and that palmistry was considered a legitimate medicinal diagnostic tool in India. Oh damn so I used to read people's hands to get a get a medical diagnosis but is that not the same as reflexology? Quite possibly you got the you got the head one as well haven't you? People read the bumps in the head yeah I don't know phrenology is it called I don't know sorry uh but that is no different I knew I'd written it down Nostradamus used a mix of Latin Greek and French it wasn't Italian it was it was Latin Greek left field there so he was French but it was French that's a Latin that is it a Latin French wasn't Latin uh Latin was Italian is evolved from Latin Latin based sorry my bad character uh and English quite a lot of Latin based so yeah not to obscure his predictions even further so again the vagueness of it's what I said a little while ago um Edgar Case had no formal medical training oh damn but gave health readings to thousands I wish he was still about I reckon he could diagnose me Uriella has claimed that he has influenced NASA experiments I mean a lot of people can claim they've influenced things and you know I mentioned the Fox sisters with their ghost rapping but not like N and then frickin' frickin' fresh a lot of it was them cracking their bones oh like this yeah oh day channeling things through oh my there we go there we go so I can't believe I did that that really hurt so fortune telling let's throw it all together what what is it so you can say it it blends kind of history psych psychology culture mystery praying on the vulnerable and people are drawn to it would you say because of curiosity I know I am that's curiosity for me that's why I looked into it because I was curious.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

Some people want answers yeah and they're willing to go that's what I mean by the diagnosis side I think there are people out there that would be driven to pseudosciences to explain things that scientists doctors can't understand. I honestly truly hand on heart understand why people would do that yeah easily.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

See I I look at it from outside that I'm I look at it from like that's it's where I don't go I go in with the thing of right from a scientific approach like why because again studying psychology I'm just interested in all of that what is it why do people go for it what what makes that how do they then do it which is why I love watching Darren Brown.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Because other people don't have the answers and I think that I think having an answer at all is better than no answers. Yeah you know you know I I really do and I I I genuinely especially especially uh old old Edgar case I do understand why people would go to someone like that to get answers.

Vulnerability, Comfort, And Ethical Lines

SPEAKER_01 40:38

But also it goes back to that you know where you pi people might think that life does have some meaning to it. I think when when so predicting the future fate and all of that purpose I think purpose is huge. Yeah I think it w if you don't know your own purpose in life your own uh uh maybe not per purpose your own value in life um I think you can go down some very rocky paths of course can yeah yeah I mean how it's a country when you know when you ever seen that video as well where um I think it's it'll be on Facebook or TikTok or whatever you're not where it's uh it's a it's a a lady she's laying down on the grass and the camera focuses on her eyeball.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Right? But then it comes it pulls out. Right. So the camera pulls out and then you see her entire body laying there on the grass and it falls out and then you can see the city and then it goes out you see the planet. Oh okay the solar system and it goes out in the universe and it goes and it I think the idea of the video is just to make you realise how small you actually are within the universe. Yeah but then what it does the video does something very clever is then as it comes back out it goes back into the eyeball and comes out it's almost like saying the universe is you know that the atom theory that each atom is it's with it it's its own universe and there's billions upon billions of you know that is the case. Haunton here's a who exactly then our lives are pretty meaningless because we're so small yeah and I think it's real that realization of that you don't want it to be so you fight for it to say well no there is purpose to it there is meaning to it and there is faith I want to make my stamp on this earth.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Exactly exactly so the idea of and that this the fortune tellers feed into that I I want to lead I want to leave a legacy but not in a um I have just realised go on that my windowsills are not level with each other. I've just noticed the one on the left is like an inch shorter than the one on the right I can even see it from this angle. That is disgusting that is disgusting I'm never gonna not see that ever again. Exactly okay yeah well that's a fun um sorry what did you ask me before I got totally distracted by my we've pretty much finished I thought you had a question for me and I had a really good answer for it.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

No we're we're pretty much there. So I think so do you that's final question. Final question to finish off I think okay do you think there are some legs in it in fortune telling and psychics or do you think it is do you think there's a mixture of both or it's all nonsense?

Quick Facts, Myths, And Skeptic’s Lens

SPEAKER_00 43:12

I believe that there are ways that have been twisted. Twisted but I do think I I do think yes that there is some legs in the sense that people can reveal a lot more from the if you look at it from the opposite way from the person that's that's giving off that information it's clearly showing their subconscious thoughts and processes that are not and that's what's being read. And that's what's being read and I think that can be helpful for a person and I think maybe a little bit of hope is not so bad sometimes. Yeah um especially if someone needs to move on from a loved one which I think is where a lot of this comes into um and I and I do think there is some comfort in that and I should we deny people of that comfort? No I don't um so I guess as long as it's I think I think demanding money for those services I think is cruel and I and I don't agree with that when someone is in a vulnerable state. I think a lot of people just need someone to talk to sometimes. Yeah and sometimes these places the only people that will listen yeah to everything that they're saying or doing with their body.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Yeah. I have I have no opinion either way because again I've it's that it's that whole thing with so I've mentioned before it's the the whole belief and idea sort of thing. I don't like beliefs but I have you know I I much prefer ideas in the fact that there's there's nothing proving either way. No I'm I'm on I'm literally on the fence. I think there are don't get me wrong there are people out there being an uh what's the word using other people's vulnerabilities of course there are and that is wrong but is there something in it I don't know genuinely don't know.

Closing And Socials

SPEAKER_00 45:06

Yeah and maybe we never will maybe we never will my mind is open I won't I won't say one one way or the other well if you enjoyed that episode of bonus dad bonus daughter we've got plenty more on the bank and the only thing left to say is cue the outro thanks for joining us on bonus dad bonus daughter don't forget to follow us on all our socials and share the podcast with someone who'd love it. We are available on all streaming platforms. See you next time bye bye