Very Audacious
An audacious podcast that dares to interpret faith through culture. Embrace your audacity.
Very Audacious
Lizzo and the Body
Sean Tripline and Jalen Baker discuss recent allegations against popstar, Lizzo, and how this challenges how we idolize celebrities, how we view our bodies, how we see others, and how we respond to adversities.
Welcome to Very Audacious, the podcast where we audaciously delve into faith, culture and everything in between. I'm your host, sean Tripline, and we're not holding back, so buckle up for this audacious ride, just there and, as we are, don't forget to like, share and subscribe. Let's go Very Audacious, family, va, fam. It is so good to be here in the space with you today. My name is Sean Tripline. I am joined by my brother, jailer Baker. Yo yo yo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we are just grateful to die for another opportunity to come into this space, and I promise that on the fourth episode the intro music will not come in again.
Speaker 2:All right, those smooth Tripline, those smooth, yeah, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is episode number three. Now, with number three, how many episodes does it take to become an expert in this podcasting game? What do you think, jay? How long is it going to take us to get?
Speaker 2:there, expert bro, I think we got a good while to go. Man, I'm going to put that jaw on at 50.
Speaker 1:At 50?
Speaker 2:All right All right, so 50.
Speaker 1:At 50, there's 52 weeks in a year, so somewhere around our first church anniversary, we're going to be able to get this together. Thank you all for being here today. Jay, what's going on with you, man? How's life?
Speaker 2:Life is good man. The weather is changing. I love the fall. I'm one of the basic people that loves pumpkin spice latte, like the cinnamon, nutmeg and sugar in this joint. You know what I'm saying. I know, I know, bro. I know I dig it. I dig it. What can I say? I got to be my truest and authentic self, so I'm happy about it. I'm happy about it. That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:I'm not a pumpkin spice person at all. I don't like pumpkin pie. If you're going to give me a pie, please give me a sweet potato. Are you a pumpkin pie person?
Speaker 2:You know it's funny. So I'm a little too black for that one, so I do. I ain't going to ever turn my back on sweet potato pie. But the lattes, the muffins, the apple cider donuts, Amen, I got to enjoy the fall. It's fall, baby. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:As long as you don't turn your back on the sweet potato pie, I feel like that's.
Speaker 2:That's like turning my back on my culture. It's turning my back on my people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I ain't mad at you about the lattes, because if somebody told me they had a sweet potato latte, I'd be like that sounds terrible. That sounds terrible. Can I order a sweet potato? Let me get an SPL. I want that sweet potato frappe.
Speaker 2:I want to do this now. We got to make this happen. Chip Line, we got to trade, market this joint.
Speaker 1:There may be a market for sweet potato products that we have not tapped into.
Speaker 2:yet you put that joint on Martin Luther King Boulevard. We're going to have a base.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying Not MLK man, not MLK Bro, we just know MLK last week before the furious. We cannot bring, we cannot drag MLK into every episode.
Speaker 2:I'm dragging the people in it. You know who live on MLK Boulevard. You know who live on that joint, the people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Today we're about to delve into this episode talking about Lizzo. But before we do that, Jay, you know this is not a sports broadcast, but the last time I saw you in person, you were making projections. How do you feel about those cowboys?
Speaker 2:We're good, we ain't winning a good spot, man. We pitched a shutout on Sunday with them giants, the so-called G-man, and showed them who the real boys were in New York City. We got the Jets this week, you know. So we got to just go ahead and sweep the whole tri-state area up in this joint. You know what I'm saying. We got to go ahead and do the whole thing, shut all of New York down. It's like we do it in Dallas, baby.
Speaker 1:Wow, this man is feeling pretty confident, the whole thing down.
Speaker 2:I'm feeling confident right now, but you know you got your new quarterback up there in green. How you feeling about your boy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, I'm feeling great. I was in Chicago this past week. I was. I was checking J-love out. J-love did his thing. I mean, of course, aaron Jones, he took over, but J-love he did his thing. I think it's good vibes in green Bay, man, so I'm excited to see this unfold now.
Speaker 2:I think the big difference between both debuts is that we beat a playoff team and y'all beat a top five draft pick. You know a perennial sorry team, so you'd be encouraged with yours and I'm going to be encouraged with mine. I'm just going to put that out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like playoff is kind of like in the case of the Giants. It's kind of like you know it just had to happen because NFC is trash. There's a lot of parody, but also you know you can only beat the teams that you play. All right.
Speaker 2:So all that parody, all that parody, and y'all was out of that joint last year. That's crazy.
Speaker 1:You're right about that. You're right about that. But you know what you already know I have. I have a stat for the Cowboys. I'm not going. I'm not going to use it today, because I got to use it when I'm real mad All right, when I get real mad, and you already know what I'm saying. You know what I mean. So y'all can have to listen to episode 50 around like church and university to know what this stat is. But I got one and I'm I'm a wait until I'm really angry, that's funny, we both in good mood.
Speaker 2:Hey, I think we both just happen to have footballers back. We happen to have footballers back.
Speaker 1:I'm happy. I'm happy as back as my favorite distraction from the important things. So now, speaking of football, there was a singer who put out a song called, I believe, called tree hurts, and she makes a mention of a player from the Minnesota Vikings. This is the segue. We found a way and and the Minnesota Vikings is an NFL football team, and we were just talking about football Now we're talking about the person who was talking about football, and her name is none other than Lizzo.
Speaker 1:Lizzo is a cultural icon. Right, she has been on the scene a very long time, but, man, she made a splash and she is in front of everyone's cameras. The reason why Lizzo for those who do not know Lizzo the reason why she is very different in the music industry as a pop star, slash rapper when she wants to be is the fact that she's someone who brings a different flair to her music. She is very talented and has a lot of great songs and things like that that she's put out. But what makes her more noticeable in the industry is that she is a plus size woman, and not only this, but she has embraced that in a very demonstrative way that we have not really seen in mainstream music, at least within. You know pop and in hip hop. So I think that in I'll say that, at least not in the last 10, 10, 20 years, you know. So Lizzo has an incredible following. She is, she has number one hits. She's performed on some of the biggest stages in music.
Speaker 2:She pretty much got it going on.
Speaker 1:Grammy Award winner. I mean, you name it for somebody that's been famous like I don't know three, four years. She's doing quite all right, you know quite all right.
Speaker 1:She's doing quite all right. Now, a part of her brand, of course you know a part of her brand is this sense of body positivity, and I can define that a little bit later, but you know, I'll define it more robustly, but for now it just simply means that one is to be happy with, and not ashamed of, the body, the skin that they're in, and there's a whole culture built around that. There's nuance to that, but that's the, that's the $1 definition of body positivity. And yet, despite of all of this, a lawsuit came out, and that lawsuit was not from some random individuals, some random corporation. It was not from someone that got entered at a concert. No, she got sued by former dancers that were on her team as she has toured the world. Jay, have you heard about this? What was your first knee jerk reaction to the news that Lizzo is being sued?
Speaker 2:You know, I was definitely shocked at I guess I was definitely stuck at the at these particular allegations Because because, like you were saying, lizzo has been this extraordinary advocate for body positivity and we're going to get to some of the specific allegations in a bit. But I will say this I think that Lizzo is a very provocative person. Provocative personality. She's very I'm just going to say the word she's very colorful. She has a very colorful personality that can be very, it's a lot. So it's like a whole bunch right. So it's like for me, taking a step back from it, it's like okay, like, given how provocative that she is and given how provocative her personality is, it is, it wasn't as surprising that the more I sat with it as I first was. But at the same time, it's like I would have expected different allegations than me. I think these specific allegations are still a bit shocking. But yeah, lizzo is an interesting person. I would say, just say at least.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, for sure, she's a lot for a lot of people and she's you know, to be honest, and she's just enough for others, right, but the reality is, her brand is like not just let me say this because this is for some people's audio, for those watching on YouTube shout out to the YouTube family. We're smaller numbers, but we're getting there. For those of us, you know, who haven't seen her, I want to say you know she's. She's not just a plus I was one but she's someone who wears clothing that would not normally be associated with women in public spaces wearing that types of clothes. I mean just, and who made the rules? Who knows who made the rules? Right, we can talk about modesty for all individuals, not just one section of the populace, right, but? But the issue here is that she embraces that very radically. Her content is very sexual in nature. She's someone who has basically broken down. You know some of the expectations that individuals will have for her, but a part of outside of the provocative side, outside of the part of this that is scandalous, you know, there's this undercurrent that Luzo is a representative for many plus size women and men perhaps that feel as though that they feel empowered by the fact that this woman has reached this level of fame, not just ignoring her size, but embracing it and making it a part of her brand, you know. So this issue of body positive, let's, let's go ahead and read the actual, fuller definition of body positivity, and this, this will give us more or more rounded perspective.
Speaker 1:Body positivity is a social and cultural movement that advocates for the acceptance of all human bodies, regardless of their shape, size, color or condition. It challenges societal norms and prejudices around body image, encouraging individuals to appreciate their bodies as they are, rather than striving for an unattainable ideal often propagated by the media, fashion and beauty industries. All right, so that is our more fuller definition of body positivity, powered by artificial intelligence. And for when I think about this for myself, I definitely understand. You know, I am someone that you know.
Speaker 1:A few years ago, I weighed 50 pounds more than what I do now, and I understand. For me, it's it's more about health and it's more about, you know, being a good steward. You know, we know the scripture teaches us that that our bodies are the temple of God, you know. So for me, there's, there's something there that I want to take good care of my body. God is using this temple to do the work of ministry, you know, to get glory out of my life in the world in various ways and I'm at an age now like when you get to the mid 30s.
Speaker 1:It's like whoa well, don't check your lights, don't check knee lights becoming old man, and I say that every time I talk about every time I talk about age, you know I always get you know slammed because you know you still young, I'm like all right, well, I know when, when I'm lights go off, they off. So my goal for myself is to take care of myself. But even beyond this, as it pertains to image, there are many people that struggle with you know how they show up in the world and how you know and it's and it's not just race, is not just there are there are other other physical features that people struggle with on a day to day basis. J what should take on this issue is this is this something that we should put in a conversation? What I think? I mean what perspective you have on this.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, and I think, just going off what you were just saying, I think this is why Lizzo became a very important person in our culture. Right, because I think one of the main ways that people feel body shame is through the their consumption of the media. Right, through the consumption of television shows, movies, reality TV, all the other things like social media. And when you look to these sort of platforms, right, the bodies that are being glorified, the bodies that are being glamorized the most, are a particular size, right, skinnier, thinner, all that kind of stuff. And Lizzo being such a public figure in the media, through music, music videos, television shows, right, she became this physical representation of what it looks like for a woman, a woman or just a person of a plus size, to love themselves. Right, because she truly was just out there, loving her body, loving herself, loving her music, loving her art and just just had, had, had, had had a great sense of appreciation and gratitude just for her life and how she was born and, I would just say, how God created her, right. So I think that that's especially important and I think that we all can learn from that, whether you're a Christian or non Christian, that you know when you look to someone like a Lizzo who's in the public, like that, I think that she can be inspiring and can kind of transcend a belief system, right. So I think a Christian or non Christian can sort of be, can be inspired by that. And, with that being said, I think that what the Lizzo scandal if we can call it that has in some ways taught me is that we have to be careful with putting our idols on pedestals, right, I think we have to be careful with. So it's okay to look up to someone, it's okay to be inspired by someone, but the moment we look to someone for our ultimate need of satisfaction in terms of, in order for me to feel good about my body and myself, I have to feel great about who Lizzo is. Right. In order for me to feel good about myself, I am looking to Lizzo as the ultimate authority of body positivity. Right, and it's like that's dangerous. It's very, very dangerous, right, because Lizzo is a human being, she's a fallible person, right, and that's where we really just have to be very, very careful. Right, we have to be very careful because the thing is right.
Speaker 2:Our belief is that, since we were created by God in God's image and the bodies that we are in. We have every reason to love ourselves because God loves us, right, and I think that has to be the ultimate fundamental value. That sort of undergirds our belief about ourselves. And the moment we step outside of that and put our trust into something else or someone else, then it can get kind of dangerous. So then it's like this Lizzo thing can really rock your worldview, it can rock your framework, it can rock your life. This is like I put all my faith and hope in this person who I loved and adored, and now, right, because she's a human being, it's like can I love myself anymore, given that Lizzo has fallen a little bit from grace, right? So I think that's where we have to be a little bit careful in thinking about these things.
Speaker 1:Man, that is so good man, you pretty much wrapped up the whole podcast. That was like four minutes, man, that was it all right. So I'll see everybody next week. That was I'm serious, brother, that was awesome and I think just kind of step it back a little bit and kind of work to your conclusion there.
Speaker 1:Absolutely I agree with you that individuals who see Lizzo and appreciate the fact that she is celebrating just who she is, or at least accepting who she is, there's nothing wrong with that. And I think, whether you're Christian or not, I think as a Christian, first Samuel 16, 7 says this for the Lord does not see as mortal see. They look on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart, you know. And that same verse is recanted in the New Testament. Of course, right and so truly.
Speaker 1:Now this verse is moving inward, so it's excluding the outward altogether, right. But the fact that it's moving inward and the fact that individuals like Lizzo, as a part of this body positivity movement, are showing from a physical perspective and there's a lot of different things here in this particular verse, but at least from a physical perspective that people who are of faith obviously should not live with the sort of perspective, as the world does, that all things are vanity, that these vain things you know, are motivators for our lifestyles, the things that we do, the images that we emulate, et cetera.
Speaker 1:Now, past that, you preach the sermon man when you said I mean you preach the word there, bro, when you said that as individuals who do cling to higher ideals, you cannot do that through fallible images, you cannot do that through idols or individuals, I mean. And we could talk not just about pop stars, I mean, we could talk about teachers in the school system, we could talk about pastors, we could talk about all kinds of individuals that all humanity, all have fallen short of the glory of God, period. You know what I mean All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Because of that, we can see reflections of God in individuals, but we do not look to individuals for our sense of the higher things. We cannot look into individuals and creation and try to find the creator in the creation.
Speaker 1:And when we do that, you know we get disappointed. Now let's talk about the disappointment. I love that we were kind of able to talk about you know what she represents. First she got sued, man. She was sued by her own dancers and others on her team for basically doing the very opposite of what her brand is. She got sued for sexual harassment. Now, even though the name of this podcast is very audacious, there are some things in this lawsuit that cannot be mentioned on this podcast. It's just not appropriate whatsoever. I mean, it goes beyond very audacious to very scandalous right.
Speaker 1:And we're going to try to keep this somewhere around PG and PG-13, all right.
Speaker 1:So, but what we will say is that many individuals well several of the individuals on the suit claim that she shamed them for being fat and for gaining weight during the course of their tours and things like that, and indicated whether it was, directly or indirectly, a lack of commitment to their work with her because of their size. And then there are other cases where there just seems to be extreme abuses of power, et cetera, just kind of all out craziness. As it pertains to the things that she's been accused of, Now, let me say this with everything it's a legend right.
Speaker 1:It's just an allegation. We don't know for sure what exactly Lizzo did. I will say that for women who are willing to sit on television and talk about this as well as put their names out there, there is, of course, the prospects of libel and slander if you were to completely make up the details of the lawsuit. So typically, even where we have sketchy details that we don't quite know exactly what's going on, there's typically some truth in the midst of everything.
Speaker 2:There's a little bit of fire.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where there's smoke, there's got to be at least a little fire. But even with that said, we really want to speak to the issue that undergirds this, because Lizzo's not the only one. This is not the first celebrity who has disappointed their fans. This is not the first person with cloud or with a following that has been seen in a hypocritical light, so to speak. So the fact that she's gained this notoriety being a body positive black female artist and perhaps was body shaming her own dancers, is not unfathomable by any stretch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right and it's like, for me it speaks to, I think, anytime we have any measure of success, I think that we always have to have some checks and balances. Spiritually, right, I think, like, because it's like living in this world especially and this is Lizzo is a different level, so I'm trying to make this as relatable as possible just to the everyday person. But it's like living in this world where you literally have fans, thousands of people screaming your name, singing your music, right, or just in an everyday, like, if you're getting affirmed by your coworkers, your boss, your students, whoever it may be. Right, a bit of that success is going to go a little bit to your head, right, I just think that's different nature. It's going to go to your head, right. It's going to be like this thing of I'm doing a really good job, I'm great, and it can be this drug, almost right Like affirmation.
Speaker 2:Some of us need it just to feel this sense of self-worth, which I totally affirm that. But also it could be this thing where we're dependent on that kind of affirmation in order for us to feel any sense of self-worthiness. Right, I think that we just have to be careful with that right. I think that we have to spiritually have this sort of firm understanding of who we are to God, right. I think that we really just have to have a robust theology of the Mago Day and the theology of self. Right, which is the fact that God created me in his image. God created me in his image and likeness, right, and that is the foundation of who I am. That's the foundation, and I think it behooves all of us to really investigate what that means, like what that means to God and what that means to ourselves. Right, cause once we sort of are on the same page with God in that regard, then affirmation becomes okay.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that affirmation, thank you for that compliment. At the end of the day, the glory really does belong to God. Thank you, lord, for giving me the talent and skills so that I can reach people in this way. Right, like giving it all back to God. Not in some like false humility way, right, not in some, you know, like false sense of like, oh, glory be to God. But you really do, but you really like, yeah, I'm really am the person I really am. You know, I really am that dude, I really am that girl.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying, um, so yeah, I think that he's just like hey yo, I'm thankful for the talents that has been endowed to me by my creator and I'm thankful that I get the opportunity to share that talent with everyone else. You know what I'm saying and I think sometimes when you're a celebrity like Lizzo, that like it could just go to your head, it can just truly go to your head, and it can lead to erratic behavior that she's being accused of. So it's something that we all can learn from. Right Is that when we're successful, when we have any measure of success, having those spiritual checks and balances right Can really sort of give us that solid, grounded sense of self so that we don't sort of spiral out of control with our ego or with our pride.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good stuff, man, I absolutely agree. Yeah, and I think you know, just kind of reflecting upon what you just said, personally it takes my mind. I mean, firstly, there's this conversation here about power that you brought up that must be addressed.
Speaker 1:There is abuse of power. It doesn't just happen by politicians, you know, fighting for elections. It doesn't just happen, you know, in Hollywood. It happens in jobs, each and every day, across the globe and across the country. So there's always this issue of abuse of power.
Speaker 1:And I think that, for me, it takes me back to the conversation that we had last week, folded and Furious, because at the end of the conversation we, of course, we were talking about those who missed episode 2, we were talking about, you know, how it's definitely natural for Black people in America to be angry about the history and things that have taken place in American context, but that we don't want to embody that very thing, and then, you know, step outside of, you know, or to live into the very thing that we are against, you know, that oppression, that issue, and I think here when I think about, you know, lizzo, her power, her image, all of that.
Speaker 1:In the paradox of this, you know, it's pretty apparent to me that, of course, of course, someone with that much money, of course, someone with that much power, of course, with someone with that much clout, could very easily forget the brand, you know, even if they didn't take the brand, as serious, you know, in the first place could very easily forget the brand and live out the very thing that they say that they're against.
Speaker 1:To that point, though, I want to bring up Amos, chapter 5, verse 11. It says this, therefore because you trample on the poor and take from them levies of grain, you have built houses of homestow, but you shall not live in them. So, in this chapter and throughout Amos, you see this really really tight, this spoken to the Israelites by God through the prophet Amos. You see this review, this tight review that they have, that they've received because they have, the very people who were taken out of Egyptian bondage are now in the scene of the oppressor. You know, and one way that I've said it, I've heard it said in culture, is that hurt people, hurt people.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1:That not only do you have to keep your power in check, but you also have to keep your hurt in check too, ooh Jesus. Because if you don't process that the right way, if you don't, deal with that, internally, the right way. You have the propensity to do to other people exactly what was done to you.
Speaker 2:My Lord, my Lord my Lord, and I think that's such a oh, that was a word, that was so good. And I think it's such a great point too, because when we think about this, it's so easy to look at a Lizzo or someone else in culture and be like I would never do that.
Speaker 1:That would never do me, you could.
Speaker 2:If I had that opportunity, I would you know what I'm saying Like, if I had the money, the fame, I wouldn't do that. Right, and we have to be careful. We just have to be very, very careful, right, because, again, with success does come a responsibility. With freedom or liberation, as you were just saying, does come responsibility, right, like you are now responsible for people, for people that you've impacted, for people that you've affected with your talent, with your gifts, you're now responsible to yourself, right? So it's like you have to keep those things under control. Or, again, it can spiral.
Speaker 2:It can spiral for any of us, because we're prideful people, we're greedy people, and those things can impact us in various ways. You might not do what Lizzo did, but you can do a variation of what Lizzo did in your own personal life if you don't have those checks and balances, right, like, none of us have clean hands, right, that's why we have to be saved and that's why we have to have our hands washed by the blood of Jesus, right, that's why Jesus had to come down, so that we could have the opportunity to overcome those proclivities that we all have toward pride, ego, selfishness, greed by the power of the Spirit of God right. So yeah, that's a phenomenal point Hurt people, hurt people. And I love your point about if we don't process the hurt, it's gonna be transferred over to someone else. That is an extraordinary point that we all have to take care of. That is an extraordinary point that we all have to by really come to terms with.
Speaker 1:I believe, honestly, bro and I know you're being very pastoral in terms of bringing people along in this issue, of being hesitant to think that I could never do this, and I think that you're absolutely right. But I wanna add to that, to the point you just made hurt people, hurt people. Everybody has the tendency to project on other people what they have not dealt with, and I think that if you're not intentional about that, if you have not thought that through, if you've not committed that to prayer, if you've not talked to someone, if you need to talk to someone about that, be it a pastor, be it a friend, be it a parent, be it a therapist, whatever If you haven't done that, then there is a potentialality of you not properly working through the things, the traumas that you have endured. So I wanna add to this though you know, since we brought up this Amos text and the oppression and all the other stuff, were you surprised, were you surprised at all, by the fact that the Black dancers also accused her of racial discrimination?
Speaker 2:No, I wasn't surprised and sorry to fill up on my table. I apologize for that noise a little bit. I wasn't surprised, I felt the speed.
Speaker 1:How about her speed? Quicker, y'all you quicker.
Speaker 2:It's interesting, right, because it's like, I think, that one of the byproducts of greed, selfishness and pride can come out as hatred toward anyone because of any external appearance, whether it be race, class, gender, right. Once you spiral out of control, all bits are off. You don't know what could come out of your mouth if you're not in control over your, over your mind, over your heart, and how these things can impact you, right? So the hurt that can come out of you can truly be anything, right, which is why sometimes, right and I think we've all been here, right, there have been times when we've said things to a whether it be to a friend or a family member or, you know, like a co-worker or anything like that, because we were angry, because we were just because something was going on in our lives. We'll say something and, you know, later on we'll be like man, I can't believe I said that.
Speaker 2:That's really crazy, that I actually said that you know what I'm saying. Like, that's not really who I am. You know what I'm saying, and it's like that's what happens when things aren't in check in your emotional, personal, spiritual, life. Right, when you let things linger. There's a pastor, a pastor, a friend. He always used to say if you don't deal with your sin, sin will deal with you. And when sin when sin deals with you.
Speaker 2:It's gonna come out in some sinful ways. You know what I'm saying and it's so. It's like you gotta deal with it. You got in that work, although it might be hard, although it might be like I don't feel, like I don't feel like doing all this internal work. That work is important, not only for us, but your future self is gonna thank you, cause there'll be times when the Holy Spirit will do something like this. The Holy Spirit will be something like now. If you weren't working on yourself and you just acted in anger, you know what you would have said. You know what you would have been. You know what I'm saying and that's what you could be like. Lord, thank you so much for giving me a revelation to work on myself so that I would not reveal the worst parts of myself, right? So I think that's why that's important as well. Right, it says that you gotta keep that stuff in check, because it can come out in ways that will even surprise us, like I shouldn't have said that I shouldn't have did that.
Speaker 2:I can't believe I did that right. And there are ways that we can avoid those things by keeping those things in check.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know what when you say keep things in check, you know, it's interesting to me because I'm thinking about my trip to Chicago recently and I'm sitting. I got good seats, bro, good seats, shh.
Speaker 2:A subtle, not so subtle flex. Ah, weird flex.
Speaker 1:So I was on road two. And the reason and I'm saying this for a reason, not just the boats. I'm saying this for a reason.
Speaker 1:I was on road two. So when not just when the touchdown was scored, but when Brother man, Justin Fields through the past it was intercepted, I believe, by Quaid Walker, taken back to the end zone right in front of me, I just about lost my mind. You know what I mean. Like I jumped out of my seat, hands in the air, waving like I just don't care. You know what I mean. All the fixings and man, them, Baris, fans around me, they were hot, they were hot.
Speaker 1:And then one guy, he yelled something. He was trying to minimize my moment right, and I turned around and I was tempted. I was tempted to say something back to him and I saw a little kid right next to me with a package jersey on, and it just reminded me that that's not even worth it. You know what I mean. Like it's not worth responding in that way. It's not worth me trying to my test tie's the wrong versus his in that moment where he was salty because his team was getting knocked Right.
Speaker 1:But when I think about your comments, though, I think about the things that keep us in check In that particular instance, seeing that child and I'm a teacher, so I'm always thinking about how I'm representing myself in front of children, because I wanna make sure that I am a positive example in their lives on different levels, given that there's so much out there for them to be ill advised by the world and by culture. And so for me, that was a check For you what are some things outside of the word of God? What are some things for you that you feel as though keep you in the right head space? So you are not becoming what you don't wanna become.
Speaker 1:so you're not doing what you don't wanna do, so that you're not misrepresenting who you are as someone who is part of God's fold.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. It's a phenomenal question, I think, for me. I just know that there are times in my life when I've responded in anger, where it just did not end well, right, I think for me, I have to learn to be not aware of my triggers, necessarily, but aware of my mental state, right, like I know what it is for me, as Jalen Baker, to be angry. I know how I feel, I know how my face look, I know how my body touches up and it's like, I think, in those moments, the spirit it makes me aware. Yo, jalen, you're angry and you know how you get when you're angry, right? And it's like in those moments, okay, okay, I cannot respond to anything right now. I can't respond to this email, I can't respond to this text, I can't respond to this person that's sitting in front of me. I literally need to leave. You know what I'm saying, and I think the temptation is yo, just go ahead and just tell them how it is.
Speaker 1:Speak your truth. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Tell them how it is. Speak your truth, all that kind, all those things that we hear in culture, right? Like you know what I'm saying, like, in order for them to know what the real truth is, you gotta tell it to them unfiltered, unadulterated, keep it one-hunting. You know what I'm saying. And God be like. What good is that gonna do if you're doing it in this state? There is nothing that can come from this when you're in this state.
Speaker 2:Now, god ain't against the truth, right, but he is against hatred. He is against revenge, right, and the last thing that I wanna do is make someone feel less of themselves, even in moments when I feel like they made me feel less about myself. You know what I'm saying, but then again, right, it goes back to something we talked about earlier, right? Is that? Even when somebody makes you feel less than in yourself, right? What should be wringing in your ears as they are touting all this lies about who you are. What's been wringing in your ears is that, hey yo, you were created by God. God created you. There is no way in the world the most powerful being in the universe would have created you if he didn't love you or if he didn't create you for a reason, for a purpose. That's your ultimate trump card to yourself and maybe even to that other person. Right, it's like I was created by God. Do you know who God is Right.
Speaker 2:So it's like in those moments that's why you really gotta reflect and read and really ponder that text the like I was created in the image of God. Like what does that mean for you? Cause the spirit will remind you of that ultimate truth in those moments where you might not feel like that right, and when we don't feel like that, in those moments we can respond in anger, jealousy and hatred, which it's not good for our souls and it's showing nothing good for somebody else's soul. So I think for me, I just know what it feels like when I get like that right. I mean I can just become like a bull ready to run somebody over with my horns. You know what I'm saying. And God's like it might feel good in the moment when you run them over and die, but afterwards you're gonna be like, oh shoot, that was a wrong move. That was a wrong move. You know what I'm saying. So I think it's self-awareness, it's what I lean on in those moments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you don't pick up. No folding chairs, man.
Speaker 2:Woo, my God, my God, my God Cause.
Speaker 1:Lord.
Speaker 2:I don't want to just pick up a folding chair, I want to pick up just a chair, the nearest one near me.
Speaker 1:Give me the nearest chair. I want to say this because, for those listening, you know, I want to make sure that I, for the way, at least the way that I hear you is, there's two different things. I think one is more narrow and more specific to experience, and then the other portion is more vast, and so the more vast example that you gave, the more vast impetus you have is being made in the image of God. I want to say that, that one, you know, for those who feel that they cannot grasp, that if those who feel like they're not at that place, you know, like I'm not quite there, you know I want to be there but I'm not quite there, you know, for those that are, in that space.
Speaker 1:I want to say that that's the one that takes, that takes intentionality, that takes a relationship with God, that takes an understanding of God's intention towards you and how that and how that then affects the way that you see the rest of the world. But you only have that unless you got it right. You're only going to think that way unless you have been formed in that way, right. However, what you said in the beginning was to the effect that you remember what happens. You know what I mean. You have a frame of reference, and I think all of us have a frame of reference in our lives where things have not you know, where things have not gone well at all because of not perhaps not our action, but perhaps just the way we responded. You know, growing up, when I was a school man, it was never the first person that swung first that got caught. It was always the one that responded.
Speaker 2:It's infuriating, bro. It's infuriating Right right.
Speaker 1:So it's like your response, you know, to what has happened to you in life truly is how others will define who you are, and it is so important to remember and learn from the things that have taken place in the past. I feel bad about Lizzo in a way, because you know, you know, despite of our differences and various ethics, I'll just leave it at that. Despite of our differences, you know, I definitely want it to believe. You know, like you want to believe that somebody you know is who you know they are, who they say they are. You know you want to believe that somebody really has that embodies what they talk about and what they represent. And Lizzo is not someone that has been she's been arbitrarily, you know, coerced into this spotlight. No, she's spoken about this. She's made many public statements about how this, very much so, is a part of her brand, representing different people and different sizes of people. So it's unfortunate to see it's unfortunate to see this take place and for those that were allegedly hurt in this process, but it is a reminder that all of us are fallen and broken and truly we have to look to God, you know, for our example of wholeness that God made us perfectly.
Speaker 1:Scripture says you were beautifully and wonderfully made, fearfully and wonderfully made, and because of this, yes, you have reason to certainly live life in a particular way, holding your head up high and not acting like you. You're less than anyone else because you don't look like the person on the television who has an eight and three weeks. You know what I mean. The reality is, you know, I successfully lived that in there real quick. It doesn't matter. You know those images and things in culture. God made you as God wanted to make you and truly Because of that because you have been fearfully and wonderfully made because of that, when life happens to you, you cannot forget who you are. Your self-worth definitely speaks to your image, but your self-worth also speaks to your responses to trauma and your responses to problems, how you respond to things, because if you truly value yourself, there's some things that I may want to respond one way, but I know that's five to ten. If you do that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:You know, go back to my neighborhood.
Speaker 1:You could talk to one of the paralegals on the street and say, oh, don't do that.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. No, that's not a mercy. My God, my God.
Speaker 1:That'll give you three to six brother. All right, you know, when you value yourself, when you have true self-worth, it's not just about your image. It's also about how you show up in the world, how you respond, because all of that will affect who you are, and you are God's.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen, amen. And I'll say this too about Lizzo that I did appreciate about her former public persona, if you can say that now, because she's just going through a lot right now. I think what it did for me personally, right, as a man, is that it made me sort of question my own notions of what I think is beautiful and what I think is attractive, right, it made me truly realize how much I've even been impacted by the media and by social media and what I think is beautiful, right, and it like made me like check my own stuff and be like yo. You cannot just judge attractiveness, you cannot just look for, like this very ideal standard of beauty in a woman just based off her body. Right, it's so much more than that, and I think that's where her public persona and like being sort of this armored barrier, body positivity, impacted so many. Right, I guess it impacted those who needed that sort of self-confidence, self-worthiness, right, because of their size. But it also impacted people like myself.
Speaker 2:I could just admit that, right, it's like yo, like you said at the beginning of the podcast. Right, it's not just about the outside, it's also about the inside. It's cliche that sounds, but it's like yo if I'm trying to get with somebody, I mean, look everybody, get old, you ain't gonna be fine your whole life. That's just what it is. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So there has to be more. There has to be more than I'm looking for in a partner, than just body size, and it is like when you've been in a culture that has sort of valorized these ideal standards and what you're trying to look for in a potential spouse, it impacts your own psyche. So I think that Lizzo did so much and like it is a sad fall, but I do appreciate what she did, I appreciate the goodness of what she did and my hope is that she learns from this, like you said, that the people who are impacted by it can heal from what they've experienced. Yeah, I hope that we all can just continue sort of investigating ourselves and our notions of what is beautiful and what is not and what we're looking for as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you said, everybody gets old.
Speaker 2:And everybody gets saggy skin, everybody gets wrinkles. She ain't going to be fine, doc. You better have some milk that you love about her when she's turning 80.
Speaker 1:You better be deeper than that. I've got an epistle from Reverend Music Soul Child here in front of me and there's a chorus to the song called Don't Change. It says see, I love you when your hair turns gray girl. Yeah, I want you if you're gaining a little weight the way I feel for you will always be the same, just as long as your love don't change.
Speaker 2:All right, that's it. That's it there it is People.
Speaker 1:The point about this is love. Come on, let's love somebody Stop shaming folks. Stop making folks feel inferior.
Speaker 1:Let's do the right thing and let's not project what was done to us on the other people. I am so glad that you have been with us today at Very Audacious, where we dare to take culture and interpret scripture through culture. This has been a blast for me. This is episode number three. I pray that you will take the time to check out episode one and two, if you haven't, and tell someone about Very Audacious. Each and every week, we are coming from a different angle, a different part of the culture. Nothing is off limits. No category, no genre is off limits for us to be able to engage the word, and we're so glad that you were here for this particular episode.
Speaker 1:Make sure you follow us at Very Audacious. You can follow us on Instagram. We'd love to see you on TikTok. There's content that's going to be coming out next week throughout the week, as well as a question that is going to pertain to next week's discussion. All right, so when we think about next week's conversation, there will be individuals who have the opportunity to log on and to call us up and tell us a very, very important aspect of their lives so that we can discuss that here on Very Audacious, but you cannot see the question, and you cannot be a part of that exercise unless you follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Very Audacious. You might as well go ahead and follow us on Twitter as well. All right, we're looking forward to seeing you all next time. Thank you for being here at Very Audacious, jay, as always. Thank you, brother, for your effort, your insight and for your presence, man.
Speaker 2:Hey man, as always, a good conversation. Had a good time rocking with you today, man, and yeah, y'all follow us, subscribe, tell your neighbor, your friend, your family, your cousin. We are here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we are here. Touch your neighbor and say follow, very Audacious, all right y'all, love y'all and see y'all soon. See you next week.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, bye.