Very Audacious
An audacious podcast that dares to interpret faith through culture. Embrace your audacity.
Very Audacious
The Rapper Aesthetic
Sean Tripline and Jalen Baker discuss (again!) J's obsession with Adele, Michael Irvin calling out his son/rapper Tut Tarantino, authenticity in hip hop narratives, framing suffering in narratives, hip hip as an art form, Imago Dei, dinner with Jay-Z, and much more.
Welcome to Very Audacious, the podcast where we audaciously delve into faith, culture and everything in between. I'm your host, shawn Tripline, and we're not holding back, so buckle up for this audacious ride. If you're as daring as we are, don't forget to like, share and subscribe. Very Audacious Family VAFAM. What's up everybody? Thank you for being here again for another episode of this Space called Very Audacious. We are very grateful that you were here with us and my brother is in the building today. What's up, pastor Jaylen Baker?
Speaker 2:Yo, yo yo. What's going on, man? It's good to be alive, good to be seen out here in these streets, bro, it's a fake summer out here. It was 80 degrees yesterday. I was outside with a short zone and shirt, t-shirt, living it up, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it was nice. It was nice yesterday. Now, for people like me that put our heat on early at the first sign of the weather going below 70. If you didn't switch that thing back, man, you was burning up. Man, my job had the heat on and I was like man, y'all got to step outside and see what's happening right now.
Speaker 2:I know I know you can tell if you don't for those of our listeners that might be from the south or from the west coast. We in the north, baby. So it ain't supposed to be hot outside. It ain't supposed to be warm outside. This is cold season. It's actually my favorite time of the year. I love wearing hoodies.
Speaker 1:I'm a hoodie. I got one on right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I was in the hoodie at the beginning of the day yesterday and I was in there. I was sweating. I was like, oh Lord, Sweating. I shouldn't be sweating like I'm preaching. I need to take this hoodie off.
Speaker 1:Ah, yeah, man. Yeah, I love hoody weather. I love sweater weather. I think that's the best time of the year. Yeah, absolutely Love it. So how was you went to Las Vegas? Now can you tell me how?
Speaker 2:that went. Vegas was. Hey, man, let me tell you something. Vegas was great. I went to see my girl, adele, live in concert and she rocked the house with her powerful, soulful, beautiful, eloquent voice for two and a half amazing hours. Yo bro, let me tell you something. As I was sitting listening to my girl sing, I said you know what? This confirms it? What I'm listening to right now is the best singer on planet Earth. It's the best singer in the world Not even close, in my humble opinion. Like you know, beyonce, girl, you can sing, you're a good performer, but you ain't Adele, and whatever name you got, adele got the crown, she got the belt, bro, she got the belt Best singer alive. I'm just going to keep it real with you, bro. I'm keeping it 100%. I'm just going to have to keep it real with you, bro. She rocked the house. Let's go. Wow, it was phenomenal. Fee na ma no l.
Speaker 1:Let me say this I first of all want to I want to thank every person that is listening to me talk right now. And the reason why I want to thank all of you that are listening to me talk because I know that you were tempted with cutting this off the minute that he said that Adele was the greatest singer in the world.
Speaker 2:World bro.
Speaker 1:Wow the world. That's a high mark, bro. That's a high mark. Now J tell, me, Tell me why I know. I'm a little bit of a hater, so before I show myself, tell me why is Adele the great? What about her music really resonates with you in that way? Well, so here's the thing.
Speaker 2:I will say this I think it's possible. I mean so, I don't agree, I wouldn't say this myself. I think it's possible to be the greatest singer and not and you not necessarily like their music per se. I think Adele's music is great. I love her music to death, obviously, but so I think so I would say it is possible for someone to have like a better song than Adele. Like someone's song might be better, like the quality of the writing might be better, true, true, the boots might be better, and like the beats, along with the writing and the voice. So someone can produce a better song than Adele, but I don't think you could produce a better voice than Adele.
Speaker 2:I think Adele is a multifaceted singer. She can do R&B, she can do pop, she can do soul, she can do orchestrated singing I don't know if that's a word, but she can basically sing with a like a brain. She can go to an opera and sing like that. Her voice is multifaceted, it transcends genre. That's why I think she's the best singer alive, whatever ram she's in. She can hold her own with any singer out there. That's why Now, but so, but like again, caviated with she might, you know, you can give me a better voice than Adele, you might be able to say yo, that song is better than rolling Adele.
Speaker 2:That song better than someone like you, and I might be like, okay, you know what, I could agree with that. But that voice though, the voice.
Speaker 1:Nah, fam, nah, wow, Okay, all right. Well, jaylin has spoken. I'm a get listen, listen, listen. I love my brother, I'm allowed him his, I'm allowed him his voice and he spoke what he spoke. Now I actually am the singer on this podcast.
Speaker 2:You are, you are.
Speaker 1:I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna throw that out there. You know, um, but I do understand where you're coming from. It's funny because I actually think her songs are pretty dope. I actually heard Fire in the Rain when I was at supermarket the other day, and that's that one album. That's the one album that I know. I told you about that album, I know that album and that's the one I know.
Speaker 1:I remember all the melody, all the lines and the runs. I'm like oh yeah, I like this song. I guess it's a dope song. He's spoken and I'm not going. He just celebrated his early birthday, so I'm going to let him have it.
Speaker 2:I'm going to let him have it. I appreciate that trip. I want to be a good friend.
Speaker 1:You know what? Just a little tease.
Speaker 2:We'll have a podcast where we rank our singers. We'll rank some singers.
Speaker 1:Let's do that.
Speaker 2:Let's do that, we'll do that.
Speaker 1:We'll do that.
Speaker 2:We'll both have our say in court, if you will.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's do it for pop, let's do it for gospel, let's do it for all that stuff. Yeah, let's do that. All right, I love it. I love it. So Jalen said something in the beginning of this. We don't script these conversations at all, so we're just feeding off of each other. This is what we do when we talk in real life.
Speaker 1:Jalen said something in the beginning that is a very common heard phrase and that phrase is in these streets, we out here doing what we got to do in these streets. And the irony about the phrase in these streets is that, depending on where you live in America or across the globe, you might not even have streets. You might have roads, you might have boulevards, you might have highways, you might have a bypass. It's not telling what you might have or where you might live. Me personally, I live on a pike. I don't live on a street, but I still use the phrase in these streets because, number one, I'm from a place with a lot of streets, the city of Philadelphia. I've also lived in the South, where there are very few streets. Now Jalen is in New Jersey and they're probably a couple of streets where he lives. But you know truly I'm actually, now that you're back at you know, I know where you are now because we went to school there together, so there aren't many streets in the way that we think about them, but yet we still refer to them as such. Now I want to say this that there is this element of cultural exchange from one place to the next place, and today we're going to open up this question about authenticity as it pertains to culture.
Speaker 1:There was something that I just saw a few days ago on social media Michael Irving, who was a very, very successful NFL player. He played for the Dallas Cowboys, I believe, which happens to be your favorite team. He got on television. He's a pundit, he talks about sports on a few stations and he got on there and I don't know the context of it at all, but he was saying you know, his son is a rapper, his son and he basically puts out his music. Actually, listen to some of it. It's not bad Like he has a nice flow, but he pretty much blasted him and exposed him, saying that how is it that you're rapping about this hard life and you're rapping about these issues that you've never experienced yourself? This is a cultural issue here. Now, michael Irving, he's experienced that because he actually grew up in the streets. And his son, he says brother, you've lived in a gated community your entire life, so what are you talking about?
Speaker 1:So this has sparked some conversation on the interwebs and basically the conversation is engaging this question of authenticity as it pertains to rap artists. And for those of you that tune in on Instagram, you know that VA Daily, we have a daily segment. It's called Movement Moment. It's going to be transitioning to YouTube really soon, but if you've been following that, you know that on Friday we actually looked at this very issue of this particular son and his music and the question of authenticity as it pertains to not just hip hop but culture at large. So, jay, I want to ask you what was your initial reaction to Michael Irving calling out his son? Did you think that it was appropriate? What came to your mind?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's fascinating.
Speaker 2:I think, that this debate has been happening, particularly within Black communities, for a very long time. This idea that one should not strive toward a certain let's call it a rapper ethic or aesthetic, or even a ghetto aesthetic especially if one is not from the ghetto, has not experienced the ghetto, or it has not experienced sort of the lifestyle that accompanies that. This argument has been happening for a long time and what I find so a conservative argument would be you should not be doing that, because that's not the life you should want to have. You should want to rise above that lifestyle, make it out the hood and move to the suburbs, have a good job, very American dream kind of stuff. Here's what I think is interesting about this whole thing. So if you look at it from the standpoint of not necessarily trying to achieve an aesthetic but achieve a status because if I grew up and say I want to be the next Warren Buffett, I want to go into business, I want to go work on Wall Street, we're a suit and tie people wouldn't bat an eye. They'd be like you know, young brother, go ahead and do your thing. But if I say I want to be the next Jay Z. If I would say I want to be the next Lil Wayne, people have lots of questions. That was interesting about it. Right? Warren Buffett is a billionaire. He's radically successful. Jay Z, also a billionaire, radically successful. The likelihood of me becoming Warren Buffett is actually not that likely. Let's be honest. Right, it's just as unlikely as me becoming the next Jay Z. But when I say I want to become the next Warren Buffett, people say you should go for it, go strive toward that. But when I say I want to be the next Jay Z, oh, you can't do that. There's only one Jay Z. There aren't that many Jay Zs out there. But also, like, ain't that many Warren Buffets out there either? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So it's like, I think, what people see when they say they want to become a rapper I want to sing these lyrics about the hood, about the ghetto, about sort of a hard life, all that kind of stuff. What they see is someone like Jay Z rapped about these things and made a lot of money off of it. He was successful at telling these stories through the lens of hip hop and that advanced him in life. So they're listening to this music and they're like yo, I would love to do this. I actually love rap as an art form, I love this particular kind of storytelling. So therefore I want to do it too and, like you said, with my girl son. He has a good flow, he's good with words. So he said I'm going to take my child with words, like Jay Z did, and put it to the musical art form of hip hop.
Speaker 2:And I just think it's interesting, when it comes to this debate, that we're not seeing the particular ways in which people who want to follow this sort of lifestyle are saying I'm not trying to be hood, I'm trying to be successful, I'm not trying to be thuggish, I'm trying to actually raise my status. Michael Irvin said that yo, you grew up in a gated community, you know what I'm saying. And Michael Irvin said I would say yo guess what? I'm probably going to stay in a gated community, like I actually plan on living in a big house for the rest of my life, but I'm going to live in that big house through this art form, through this career path. So I think that's what's interesting.
Speaker 2:I think what's interesting is that we do not see hip hop as a legitimate career path. We don't see it as a legitimate way to make money. But it's really hard trying to become a successful venture capitalist. It's really hard trying to become like a CEO of a Fortune 500. Those things are really difficult to do and it's like if I say I'm setting out to do that, it's just as unlikely as me becoming Jay-Z or Lil Wayne, or you know what I'm saying. So it's like I think that we just have to sort of reframe how we look at these things so that we can reach people where they are when they say they want to do these things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's. I actually absolutely agree with that statement that it's hard to do all of those things that you mentioned. I think that there's a there's an interesting opportunity here to talk about our aspirations at large because, truly, when we think about becoming a rapper, when we think about becoming a venture capitalist, I think that that really that that key word there capital capitalism is what's kind of at play. When we think about the way in which we have our society set up and the philosophy behind money that we have, especially in the American context, you know it really does not lend itself to a simple life. You know and there actually been books that have been written on this you know that how does capitalism affect the mental state of people? Now, we know that. You know individuals and great stock market crashes and other things that have happened, companies falling apart. You hear stories about CEOs and CFOs, you know, committing suicide, giving up on life, all of that because of the financial things that have taken place. Really, there's a conversation that we had here just simply about our relationship to money and and when we see ourselves as Americans. You know we talk about, you know, the pursuit of happiness. You know what we really mean is the pursuit of some bank. That's what we mean, you know. I mean when we say that we're not talking about, you know, the pursuit of joy and the pursuit of happiness that's based upon things that are easily obtainable. We're talking about, you know, resources, and I think that that really does affect a lot about how we see ourselves, how we see culture, how we see opportunity and through that lens, you know, you can't really blame an artist taking that approach.
Speaker 1:Now you said something that's key. It's an art form, you know. It's not just, you know, somebody beating on the table like when we were in middle school, you know and spitting bars on top of his beating on the table. It truly is an art form. And hip hop has gotten more sophisticated as the years have gone on and also going more commercial, which has affected culture in many different ways. And then, of course, every art form I won't say every art form, but many art forms need to be, you know, maintenance in a way in which the best of that art form is coming out.
Speaker 1:You know, when we think about all genres of music, they all have an artist or a brand that is not, you know, commercially appealing, or, if it is commercial, appealing, not up to the standards that we might have in terms of our ethics, the way that we, you know what we think is right and wrong in life, all those things can be represented through all genres of music, not just hip hop, right? So I think that when we think about his son, it's in some ways, you know it's understandable. These people you hang out with, this is the culture you love. You know you may not be from the streets, but you've been consuming that stuff your entire life and, of course, you know if you desire, if you desire to make it in that industry. That narrative is a part of the backdrop of the birth and this and the and the continuing of hip hop to this day. So it just it is what it is.
Speaker 2:And I think what was what's happened to in many ways right, is that? Correct me if I'm wrong? I'm not a hip hop head. I think you more, way more hip. I had an answer.
Speaker 2:You might be speaking historically more than I can, but, like when hip hop was certain, was first started, now it was telling the truths of real live experiences happening in the hood, right, like people were telling their stories as they were living it, as they were seeing it at, you know, like, like, through hip hop as as an art form and, to your point, because it's got more commercialized, right, you know, because hip hop is a great art form, what, what? What's happened is people have fallen in love with those kinds of stories and they just want to tell similar stories, even if they have not lived them. Do you know who else does that? Fiction writers, like fiction writers, do that. Right, when I write, if I write a book about, you know, you know, you know a little Muslim boy and a little Muslim boy in Pakistan and it's a great story, great setting, I researched it, I researched, I researched those kind of experiences historically at like, like, culturally. You know, there are people who have written great books about that, right, in a fictionalized way and you take a fence to it. But this is what happens, right?
Speaker 2:Tony Morrison, the great fiction writer, she, she would say the first assignment she would give to her students when they showed up was like, she's like she would tell these 18 year olds, y'all haven't experienced anything right about a maid in the 1950s. Tell her story, right, I just want you to imagine what her life was like. She literally tell them that, right? So it's like we, we, we, we, we, we only do this with hip hop, if we're being honest, because we see these black folks doing these things as degenerates, as hyper, hyper, hyper sexual, we see them as hyper problematic. We just, we see them in very negative ways, very negative ways, right, and it's like, if I'm being kind of honest, I think some of that is warranted, but not all hip hop can be sort of, can be sort of put within that vacuum and put within that box, right, you can't, you can't put it all there.
Speaker 2:So to my point, to my earlier point, because hip hop has gotten so much more commercialized, yes, you have people who want to tell these kinds of stories because they fall in love with the genre, they fall in love with the art form and they want to add to it. They want to continue the tradition. If you want to continue the tradition. They want to continue the tradition, if you will. Right, even if they have not lived it.
Speaker 2:Right, comedians all the time fabricate stories to be funny, to make us laugh. Right, this is not all that new, you feel me. So it's like we just got to be very careful with the particular ways in which I think we talk to young people who say I want to be the next jz, I want to be a hip hop artist, right, Like. I think we have to reframe and say they're not saying necessarily they want to be a thug. They've seen this art form bring great success to people and they're just chasing after that image. They're chasing after that career path, the same way someone might chase after, like, like we just said, a venture capitalist or anyone like that. So I think I think that's that that's a little bit of what's going on as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's good man, that's good, yeah. When I think about kids listening to this stuff, you know, of course there's a whole conversation to be had about the content, and you brought that up. Not all of it's bad, but some of it is bad, you know, some of it is very much so problematic, and but that's not the case for every artist and it's certainly not the case for every song. But I think, when we think about this issue of, you know, people aspiring to the art form, aspiring to beat, you know, to have clout within the culture in this way, you know, I think about, I think about even Jesus.
Speaker 1:When Jesus spoke to his disciples about aspiration, you know there was a text. I'm trying to remember the text. The text is mark, chapter 10, I believe Mark chapter 10, and the disciples say to Jesus you know, jesus, we want to be on your left until you're right when you come into your kingdom. And you know, essentially they're jockeying for position, you know, and parts of their culture really illuminate why this would be a conversation that they would have right. But Jesus says to them, you know, in a response, paraphrasing, that truly, if you want to be seen with me in my kingdom, then you need to take the posture of a servant. You know, he basically says to them that I did not come to serve, but I did not come to be served, but I came to serve. And if you have a heart like mine, then you'll have a heart of service, not a heart that desires to be seen by people. You know, and Martin Luther King, he actually preached a sermon on that text, mark 10, verse 35 through 45. It basically it was called the drum majors instinct and it basically talked about how, as humans, we all have this built in software our desire, our aspirations to become great in some way, and he basically shows that all of us have this instinct, this drum major instinct, to be in the front, to lead the path to whatever else. You know we all have that.
Speaker 1:The issue is not, however and this is true in Jesus and his explanation the issue is not, however, the fact that you aspire to be something. You know. The issue is what you aspire to be, and I think that when we think about hip hop, you know it is a beautiful art form, it is musical, and I am someone. I am a choral conductor, I teach classical music. You know, I grew up around gospel music. You know, I've only I have rapped. There's one song out there that I've rapped on in the entire university. I don't know if it's gonna be the last, it might be, but, but, but, but, but, but. But yeah, I had one bar and the reality is I appreciate hip hop for what it is, not just for being, you know, a youth that was around it, but even as a musician I appreciate hip hop and what it has to offer and how how much people gravitate towards it because it is so infectious, you know.
Speaker 1:But, to be clear, the issue here is not the sound. The issue here that Michael Irving is talking about is that, man, I'm working hard so I can get us out the hood. And you, talking about the hood, you know, I work so hard to get us out of this place and truly it shows you that there's a generational gap between those that you mentioned, you know, in the 70s and the 80s, who were really rapping about the problems they were living, versus what hip hop has become, which is not just an act of survival, you know, and not just even through the 90s, and act of resistance, but now it really has become an art form within itself, and so really, there's a lot there. We could talk a lot about. You know the nooks and crannies of that, but I really believe that one thing that I take away from this conversation is simply the fact that, as just as Michael Irving is criticizing his son, he's doing so on a very different level than many of the people that enjoy hip hop today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree and I think it's interesting when you said the last thing. You said, like how hip hop is telling the story of the streets, essentially right, and I think what people in today, like the people of today, like Michael Irving's son, like future generations, I think that for them, they want to continue to tell the story of the streets, even if they're not living in them, right, because they love those stories, right, those stories spoke to them when they were kids, spoke to them when they were teenagers and they don't want to see those stories end and I think there's something kind of admirable about that in many ways, right, so I think there's a way to do it. And this brings me to your point about Jesus. I think we talk about the Imago Dei are here a lot, and I think the Imago Dei here again is apt, because the Imago Dei is basically us being created in the image of God. Because when God creates us in his image, right, that's such a radical thing that God does, because he's basically saying that I'm going to create humanity in such a way to where they're going to resemble me, right, like humanity is going to resemble who I am as God and one of the key aspects of who God is is that God is a self-giving God, right?
Speaker 2:What does that mean? That means that God's essence is fundamentally oriented towards giving love and care for creation and other people, right? So that's God's nature, that's his essence, and we were created to resemble that nature and resemble that essence. Which means that we have to ask ourselves the question in whatever vocation we might be in and whatever career we might be in, how are we resembling God in his self-giving essence, right? How are we resembling God in his loving nature, in his giving nature, in his caring nature? How are we resembling God by impacting the lives of the people? That impacting the lives of people, impacting the communities that we are a part of, right? Like? How are we resembling God in that way?
Speaker 2:So none of our careers should just be about ourselves, about our status, about our money. It should be about reflecting the image that we were created in, right, and I think that's the key point. I think for us as Christians and look, I'm saying that could be hip hop. Hip hop could be the vocation and calling God has in your life and if it is your calling, don't forget that you're supposed to resemble God in that calling right. And look, I just wanna say this real quick Everybody think that hip hop is just degenerate, very like problematic thing because they do so much with money, sex and drugs. I encourage you to go watch the movie the Wolf of Wall Street and I want you to watch how those Wall Street venture capitalist acts right, like we gotta stop acting, like hip hop artists are the only thing out here.
Speaker 2:As a monopoly of all these things. Right, it's just not true. Anybody can sin. Sin is not. You know, sin is a universal thing. So I just wanna say that, because I think the hip hop gets a bad rap as being sort of the creator of this sort of hedonistic culture that we live in, and that's absolutely not true. Does it participate in it? Absolutely, but it's not the creator. There's not the creator of it. But yeah, I think that's the question that we have to sort of wrestle with is how we created to resemble God in our vocation, in our careers and, you know, trip life. I think that's what Michael Irvin and these other people are trying to get at when they're talking about these things with their children. But they're doing it in such a they're doing it in such a isolated and separate way. They're not really meeting people where they are. They're just condemning them, they're judging them, and that's just not how you reach people. You don't reach people that way. So, yeah, I think that's sort of how I've been thinking about it as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. That's good and I'm happy you said that because especially the part about the Amago Day and how we resemble God and how we show up in spaces, because as a musician, I have never had I've never I've played for bands and things that did secular music jazz and R&B stuff like that but I've never been in that space but I've always defended people. Because, technically, when I'm on stage conducting my choirs and things in a secular venue, I'm an employee of a college it was very much so a secular venue, even though it was founded as a quicker institution. I'm not doing so as reverence, showing tripline, you know what I mean. I'm not doing so as someone, and not all of the music is sacred music and of course there's a whole portion of classical music and radiohell gymnastics and so if you want to see different, go through all these different eras of music history that are catering to a Christian crowd because of the prominence of the church and because of the liturgy and the words that were used, but that had nothing to do with the composers. In many cases it was just the cultural situation. So of course, some of that, even when that is being in performed, the individuals that wrote that music were not necessarily indebted to the message, right. And then, of course, I have to conduct music that's secular in nature. But the point here is that everything that I do from conducting music to worshiping in a church service, to being involved in community activities, et cetera it's all to be done for the glory of God and I am to be showing off what it means to be made in the image and likeness of God in every space. So for those that say that you can't do this, I have been a consumer, in different periods of life, of Christian hip hop and I have experienced, through Christian hip hop, the articulation of the gospel in such a profound and relevant way that I had never heard in the church. I've experienced gospel artists rapping about hip hop artists rapping about the gospel on albums that connected me, brought me closer to God, made me more firm in my faith because of the application of God's word to very specific circumstances that many ministers just shy from talking and teaching on right. So I have been edified by that. Now I understand that because of the content of some hip hop songs, that people shy away from it and we can speak to that.
Speaker 1:Paul says in Romans, chapter 5, I believe around verse 3, that we boast in our sufferings, and I think that there's something to be said about the element of hip hop artists talking about the suffering and the hardness of life and all the things they had to do just to survive and what else. And Paul flips that in this context and shows us that there's opportunity for us to boast in our sufferings as we endure things as disciples of Jesus Christ. But here's the key, though. Here's the key when Paul talks about boasting and suffering, he's saying that boasting and suffering become something else If there's an evolutionary component to it in which it brings about endurance, it brings about character, it brings about hope, it's producing something. And I think that when we look at hip hop, when we critique it and we can critique it it's OK to critique it. When we critique it, I think it should be along those lines looking at it through the lens of Romans 5, when we're saying it's nothing wrong with talking about how hard life was, it's nothing wrong with talking about how we got here, it's nothing wrong with talking about the sufferings one has endured, it's nothing wrong with venting and expressing angst about systems and circumstances and all kinds of things. But I do believe that there are some artists who take that opportunity to not just show historically what's taking place, but also have given context for how one can grow and how one can take those lessons and become better grounded individuals.
Speaker 1:And Jay-Z, you brought him up, perfect example. He talks a lot about being a drug dealer and about what he was doing on those stoves in the streets of New York, and the reality here is that he's now a billionaire, just as one buffett. He's now someone who, from a carnal perspective, has reached the upper echelon of financial economic gain. And people talk about him. Well, what would you rather have? Would you rather have, I think, $100,000 or a conversation with Jay-Z? And there are people that will say I'd rather talk to Jay-Z. Now he's saying you better take that money. He said you better take that money.
Speaker 1:But people value a conversation with Jay-Z, not merely because of his upbringing, but what he was able to do despite of his start. So he's an example of someone who, very much so, had a rough start to his life, but he's not living the same way that he did when he was a drug dealer in the streets of New York. You know what I mean. So, regardless of what the song says. People look at him and they can see how he shows up in the world wearing suits in them. His hair is a little wild, but wearing suits a bit. He shows up and he even raps. Now In his later albums he raps about being in those boardrooms, he raps about how he's living a more positive life and so he bridges that gap and I think that a lot of people who critique hip hop don't see that side of it.
Speaker 2:And I actually am a again, I'm not a hip hop head and I can't tell you I don't listen to Jay-Z's music. But as a spectator I really have appreciated how he has evolved and I think that and see, if I was talking to a person, a young person in particular, that wants to be the next Jay-Z, I actually would point to that. You know what I'm saying. It's like look at where he's, like really just what you said Look at where he started. And I just want to look at his career evolution. And I think I would tell a young person, I think if Jay-Z were talking to you, he would tell you yo, don't strive for where I started, Strive for where I am, look at where I am right now. And what's funny is that I started interviewing Jay-Z was talking to Gail King. What he told Gail King was he said no one should want to just want to talk. No, you should take the money and not talk to me, because all the wisdom that I could give you is in my music. It's in the music, right. So, where I started to where I am now, everything that I can offer you, just listen to the music. The music will narrate you through my life through my story and you will learn everything you need to know and to your point. I think that's where we have to see the evolution of hip hop. Like hip hop has evolved in so many ways to where it can be a legitimate career path that there are some local like.
Speaker 2:I'll give you a really good example that I never heard this might sound bad. I had never heard a nipsey hustle to the die Right. You know why? He was a local hip-hop, local LA, yeah right, yeah, la loved him. You know I'm saying he made a career out of just a base, a Local base of people who appreciated his music. Now, he wasn't Jay-Z, he wasn't look, he wasn't look, he wasn't like this national superstar until he died, unfortunately, right, he just spoke to his community, his context, people vibe with it and they bought his music you know, and he was also an entrepreneur as well Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I also an entrepreneur, absolutely right. So you look at someone like this hustle, he probably looked at someone like Jay-Z or whoever he may have looked at it. So, yo, I love hip-hop, Love the art form, love storytelling. I might I be able to be a Multi-platinum selling artist the way Jay-Z is, but I do know that LA is a pretty good town. I know this city, I grew up here, you know, and I know that if I market myself correctly, I could sell like maybe a hundred thousand albums where I'm at. And I said a hundred thousand album. Yo, this is a career. I have a career, you know I'm saying. So I feel like we have to. So I feel like there are, there are, there are people out here that do hip-hop, who are doing it in very smart Ways, so that, yeah, I can't be the next Jay-ZI, can't? I ain't about to have a, I'm about to be a billionaire, right, but I can make a career, feed my family, have a house, you know I'm saying while doing this art form. So I think that's where we have to get it.
Speaker 2:And look, I understand the critiques of some of the negative and Toxic elements of hip-hop. Is there, obviously is there, and I would never encourage any young person to be like you should model yourself After these toxic elements. Obviously I want, but you know I actually would point them in there in a direction of a local, of a local star, like a nipsey hustle, like yo. If you serious about doing this for your career, this is the work that it's going to take. You gonna have to grind, you have to really put in work so that you can really build up a base of people that's gonna buy your music. Right, it ain't gonna come easy. So if you really want to do this is gonna take work. You ain't just gonna, you ain't just gonna do the angels are gonna become the next Jay-Z, you know. You know just just releasing a mixtape or releasing a few songs on Spotify.
Speaker 2:You know I'm saying it's gonna like you. We have, we have to guide young people. You know I'm saying and the funny thing is your person's honest what's I lay out for what they gonna have to do to be the next nipsey hustle, whatever they gonna be like you. Actually, fam, I'm good on that. I gotta do all that. Oh, no, I'm good, never mind, maybe. Maybe there's another pass for me, maybe this, this is obviously a my calling you know I'm saying, but but if you presented to me that way, rather than just being like, stop being ghetto, stop being all that kind of stuff, right, present to me that way, it's like, okay, maybe I can do this and I and now I have to decide if I want to put in this work. If they do great, they don't, you know, let's go find another pathway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good in the key. The key to this I mean to that point you just said for our young people, is that it is work. I mean it's work writing, it's work recording, and once you do that, you have only been, you've only done 20% of the work. I mean the work of marketing, the work of networking, the work of being all over the place at the same time. That's what's required to but, truly, if you pursue it, if you pursue that route, you know you can learn a lot of skills that can be applied to a lot of other things and In truly, a lot of folks, when they go down that road, you know they do it for a period of time until they can find that application.
Speaker 1:Sadly, there are a lot of youth throughout you know our country who don't see the other side of that coin. They don't see that nipsey hosel was an entrepreneur, you know. They don't see. You know that Jay Z was someone that built an empire, not merely on music, you know, but he built it as he built it as an executive for record, for record label. He built it as an individual who understood the ins and outs of investing. He's an investor, you know, like at this stage of the game, it's far beyond music with him. Insatly, a lot of people do not see that side. However, I want to say, if we have any young people listening, please, please, please, please, dedicate yourself to whatever God has placed on your heart to do, you know, seek the counsel of individuals that can support you and also go deep and also go wide, you know. So look and understand that what you have a passion for today might be what God will give you today, but God has the power to, to enlarge your territory, as the prayer chief that says, to allow you to stretch out and accomplish far more than what you have even Imagine or thought. So that that's my, my word to our young people listening and for our grown folks, for the grown crowd. Let's make sure we encouraging folks, because the truth of the matter is a lot of us we went to college Major than something ain't doing nothing that we major, then right. So you know, the truth of the matter is when we think about our lives and we think about how we are growing as well. We have been very, very, very much so, you know, moving in a way that God has led us by faith, not knowing where we're going and, truly, we have no idea what God will do.
Speaker 1:Family, thank you all for being here today. We are so grateful for your participation In this podcast. If you have not check us out on YouTube, like, share and subscribe on YouTube, just go through our YouTube channel and just drop a whole bunch of likes on us, all right, so that the world will know that you stand with the VA fam and then follow us on Instagram where we're doing. You know this has been a project J. We got to get you to do one of these very audacious moments. You know on Instagram as well, brother. So Follow us on Instagram daily. We offer just like this, just like this conversation in small, bite-sized pieces two to three minutes Daily inspiration from the word of God that engages culture and interprets faith through the lens of culture. So thank you all for being here and I look forward to seeing y'all next time. Jay, close us out, man.
Speaker 2:Hey, man, it's good to see y'all again, good to have you all listen to us. As brother trip line said, young people chase after God. What God has college to do, and older folks as mentors, as parents, as uncles ain't he's a man? Let's encourage our young people meeting what they are and, uh yo, let's just love, let's do what the Lord has called us to do. It's level one another in truth and in grace. Amen. See y'all touching later.