From Intimidated to Influential: Sylvie Tongco talks success mind shifts, open conversations with management, and the power of the pause

Intimidated in the boardroom? Learn how this senior communications strategist overcame imposter syndrome to climb the ranks at Fortune 500 tech companies, and discover the game-changing advice that can transform your career trajectory today.

Guest Bio

Meet Sylvie Tongco, VP of Corporate Communications and senior-level communication strategist with nearly two decades of experience navigating the tech landscape. From guiding billion-dollar companies through transformative communications strategies to building trusted C-Suite relationships at companies such as Genesis and Five9, Sylvie has established herself as a transformational leader in corporate communications. Her journey spans both agency excellence at Atomic PR and in-house innovation, offering unique insights into how authentic messaging drives business impact. Connect with Sylvie at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stongco/

Content sample:

·     a powerful mentorship experience that redefined her approach to knowledge gaps

·     the "opera incident" that taught her everything about professional boundaries

·     the negotiation that nearly doubled her pre-30 salary

·     transforming intimidation into opportunity 

·     why the art of asking "stupid questions" became her secret weapon in tech leadership

·     compelling framework for making confident career decisions offers actionable wisdom that challenges conventional thinking about what it means to "know enough."

Key Takeaways

• [02:00] - The Knowledge Gap Revelation: "They're not smarter than you - they simply had more information about a specific topic" 

• [08:00] - The Opera Boundary: Why a senior executive's refusal to work late became a powerful lesson in professional priorities

• [23:00] - The Six-Figure Conversation: How honest dialogue with her manager resulted in a salary increase beyond what she imagined possible 

• [31:00] - The Certainty Principle: "The only thing I'm certain of is that things will change - you can only be sure of yourself"

Memorable Quotes

"Don't let anybody intimidate you... They simply had more information about a specific topic of what we were talking about. Learn to ask questions."

"No opportunity is worth compromising your overall health and mental wellbeing."

"Being vocal about what you want and where you want to go - half the time we tend to underestimate just being vocal about what you need."

Suggestions:

Ready to transform imposter syndrome into career confidence? Subscribe to Career Wanderlust Podcast for more insights on authentic career advancement. 

Looking to build your dream communications, PR, marketing, or sales team? Connect with Paradigm Staffing at paradigmstaffing.com - where we match world-class talent with transformative opportunities.

Host and Platform Information

This podcast was hosted by Jolie Downs with Paradigm, a voice in career evolution and growth. You can connect with Jolie here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joliedowns/. 

If you enjoy learning from others, please give us a like, subscribe, and share with a friend. 

If you are looking to add talent to your public relations, marketing, communications, sales, or business development team with the best talent, and quickly, check us out at paradigmstaffing.com.

Ending Note

As Sylvie reminds us, change is the only certainty. What will you choose to change in your career approach today? 

Transcript

Sylvie Tongco Transcript 

Jolie Downs: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Career Wanderlust Podcast, your compass for new career horizons. Today we are talking with Sylvie Togo. Sylvie is a senior level communication strategist who has navigated the evolving tech landscape with purpose and adaptability. Currently a VP of Corporate Communications. Sylvie has become a trusted advisor to the C-Suite from leading communication strategy for five nine, a billion dollar public AI company to executive communications leadership at Genesis, and heading up communications for S Legit Marketing Cloud.

Sylvie successfully leads global initiatives for leading tech brands while consistently demonstrating the power of authentic messaging. Her experience spans both agency and in-house environments, giving her a unique insight into how communication strategies evolve from both perspectives. From her early agency days at Atomic pr, working with venture capital clients to her role as PR manager at mobile gaming companies

Storm8. Sylvie brings a wealth of experience across [00:01:00] varied industries and communications challenges, and I'm really excited to learn more. Sylvie, thank you for joining us on the Career Wonder List Podcast. 

Sylvie Tongco: Thanks for having me, Julie. 

Jolie Downs: You have excelled in your career. You've advanced through the ranks quickly.

You've started an agency you moved into in-house. I would love to know if there's any advice or belief that you found that has helped you the most throughout your career. 

Sylvie Tongco: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I actually, shared one of the, pieces of advice that I received early in my career recently, to celebrate National Women's Day in March.

And oh, it's something that I still, you know, to this day have to keep reminding myself sometimes even, almost like 20 years later, it was, I was working on the agency side and it was after a meeting, actually one of our clients who were literal rocket scientists. Right. And their offices were in NASA.

This was the mid two thousands. And after the meeting, I found myself sharing with our founder, my manager at that time, that I [00:02:00] felt super intimidated, during that meeting because of just the brain power right in that room and the knowledge that everybody had. We were talking about semantic technology and it was my first tech PR job.

I was like 26 or 27 years old and no PhD or anything of type of science in my background, and my boss turned to me, you know what Sylvie like, you should never let anybody intimidate you, right? Mm. Because they're at that point, like they're, they're not really smarter than you. They simply had more information, about a specific topic of what we were talking about, and the fact that you were in the room and

being asked to give them your advice. And at that time I had, about four years experience, right in comms, and that's four years more than the scientist. And so she advised me that I should just learn to ask questions and just get more information about any topic. And to this day, of course, you know, like when I posted, I tagged her Barbara Riker, in my post because it's so meaningful, even as a woman today in tech, right?

Like we don't [00:03:00] have like necessarily the science background sometimes, but that is the value that we provide and deliver, is distilling that information. So, you know, every time I get intimidated by topics, I just. I'll ask the questions. Maybe it's a stupid question, but there are no stupid questions just to, to learn.

So 

Jolie Downs: I completely agree. I love this so much on so many different levels. You know, I, I mean a yes. We, we often tend to, not elevate our own knowledge, if you will. It's like we almost, um, the things that we do know, because we know it, we think that everyone else might know it or, or we don't.

Like, we're not giving ourselves the credit and the credits that our knowledge has, right? And so we often do, do that, especially when faced with different topics or industries that like you said, are very science driven or very driven in a way that we're not aware of.

And what I love, I love what your boss said personally, and I thought, that's brilliant. It's, they're not smarter than you. They're, they just happen to know more about this particular topic at this moment. And that is something that we can all learn. We can all become more [00:04:00] educated. And really when we take that pride in what we do know, and then ask all of the questions to get the information needed to bring our,

the best value that we can bring. That is where magic happens, right? And so often we will hold ourselves back from that. And so this advice is so important on so many levels. Now, have you been practicing this consistently since then? I. 

Sylvie Tongco: I try to, right? Like it's, it's easy, you know, it's easy to be intimidated in a lot of meetings, especially as women, right?

Like you're always like either the only one or one of two, and so, mm-hmm. I try my best and you know, obviously through the years, you know, as you gain more confidence being more senior, that's definitely easier, but I always ask questions and maybe, you know, sometimes it gets annoying, but that is how you kind of like get to the bottom of a story Right.

Or something that you wanna tell, so, 

Jolie Downs: right. Yeah. Well, and it's an, it's an important topic, you know, how to feel comfortable with your seat at that table. Right. And, I mean, this story and advice is, brilliant actually in helping people in that aspect. Is there [00:05:00] anything else that you found has helped you through the years become more comfortable in that seat?

Sylvie Tongco: I think just preparation, right? Mm-hmm. Every time you go into a meeting, like five, 10 minutes before, if, you know, without the back to back meetings, you have to look at your calendar and just prepare. I'm a preparer myself, so I like to know what I'm getting into. Sometimes it doesn't always happen, but even if it's just scanning certain things, five minutes before a meeting really would help, even if it's ad hoc sometimes, right?

I think preparation definitely give you a lot more confidence too in like tackling whatever it may be. 

Jolie Downs: Right. And you know, all of the AI that we're learning, I just learned this new preparation tool, if you will, for meetings that I'm really excited about using. I've been using the projects in ai, for my projects and for things that I work on, and someone had just suggested that like, when you have a meeting with someone, if you have an important meeting, create a project and then add like

the company's website, the LinkedIn profiles of the people you're meeting with, all of the notes, like anything that you have, add it all into the project and then [00:06:00] you can ask ai, you know, is there anything that I'm missing or whatever prompts you want, like what questions would be great to discuss here?

Are there any insight? I mean, whatever, I just found this really interesting to use for important meetings to come up with some, like new talking points. I. 

Sylvie Tongco: Yeah. I mean with any, that I think that's also a helpful tool, right? Let's, especially in ex comms, executive communications specifically when you are preparing your executives or for an interview, right? We always do briefing sheets. Everybody in PR and comms knows that. And so that, that would be helpful tool also.

Jolie Downs: Yeah. It's amazing all the new things coming out. You know, I always love a story because I find we learn so much from stories. Is there anything that's happened to you in your career that actually turned into an impactful lesson for you? And it might help other people to hear this story for themselves?

Sylvie Tongco: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously there's been so many lessons right, throughout the years, and I was actually thinking about this a few hours ago. And I think it's easy [00:07:00] to always hone in on learnings that, you know, about getting ahead or getting a promotion or a raise right, or negotiating for a better salary.

But I think actually one of the biggest and most impactful lessons that I myself have experienced, maybe I wanna say it's like eight, seven or eight years ago, had nothing to do with any of that. I mean. You know, it had salary as part of it, but, I was in between roles and I took some time off, after getting married and traveling with my husband then, so, obviously when we got back from our honeymoon, I wanted to get back into looking for a job and there was a a role for a director of comms that popped up and, you know, super interesting company.

I knew a couple of people there but then in the process of negotiating, I felt like they had zero flexibility on the salary. They were like, usually it's a starting point, right? But I'm like, you know what? It's fine. It was a yellow flag. But I felt it was an interesting role, interesting people.

And so I, I took the job and it was exciting. So within a couple of months, that was not the only area where there was a little bit of a yellow [00:08:00] flag, right? Mm-hmm. And so, I think a couple months in, there was this big project that the marketing team was working on, basically, which is a report that they do, the biggest report that they do every year.

As you know, like when it comes to like original research that you have to publish and print and all of that, there's a long lead time, right? Mm-hmm. So it goes through a lot of cycles of reviews through leadership and everything. So the team actually had to hit like a specific deadline for publish.

And so everybody's working round the clock pretty much. And at that time, one of the last kind of like reviewers within the executive team was traveling and we had, a deadline a day and a half later for print, mm-hmm. For the design and everything. And she had to like review all of the copy and

so we hear back at around maybe like 3:00 PM that afternoon, and at that time I think, there was some travel in Europe and just point blank she says, I can't look at this tonight because I am going to the opera with my brother. [00:09:00] And so all of us were like taken aback and I was just like, oh my gosh.

Like, you know, everybody was like trying to like get this to bed and everything. But at that point, I think. I, two things actually, for me in that kind of like timeframe, right? Like I was thinking like, oh my God, how can this, how can they just say that, right? Like, after all of us were killing ourselves, was trying to put this to bed.

I actually now looking back, you know, one, it's boundaries, right? Mm-hmm. Like, yes, we've got these self-imposed deadlines and you know, we've got printers waiting in the wings and all of that, but at the end of the day, you have to have like, set aside that time for you and yourself. That was one, and then, but at that time, at that moment, I was just like, oh my gosh.

Like, I felt like there was a little bit of a. Because you are a senior leader, that means you're held to a different standard and all of us can just kind of like, okay, well I guess we have to push everything back. And so there was kind of like that, you know, back and forth, but mm-hmm. I think the lesson for me, there is two things, [00:10:00] right?

One is like trust your gut ended up, like I didn't work there for very long. I actually gave my notice within a couple of months because it was just not the right culture fit for me. Yeah. Just based on not just that experience, but just overall like how they worked. But also trusting your gut, right?

Yes. Like I, you know, I had yellow flags along the way, but. I second guess myself and maybe, you know, just kind of thinking, oh, I needed a job. You know, like, I'm just got married. I should probably get back into working. And, I think if I had trust in my gut from the beginning, then it wouldn't have happened.

But I thought that that was like a really big lesson, especially to this day too, right? Like I think no opportunity is worth compromising just overall your health and your mental wellbeing, but also being able to have that boundary. I keep looking back at that in her, you know, she was just so, like, I can't, I can't do it tonight.

So, those were, I think, like two valuable lessons that, that I

Jolie Downs: learned from that 

Sylvie Tongco: experience. 

Jolie Downs: Yeah. I love how they kind of interspersed there and how, I mean, you can have different takeaways from the same kind of [00:11:00] experience. Right. For sure. And listening to those yellow flags is really important.

I mean, look, there's a lot of situations like that and life is too short to be in a position where you are unhappy or it is not the right, it's not the right fit for you. And so often people will stay in those positions that are not the right fit for them for way too long. And I always feel like you lose out twice when you do that.

I mean, A, you can't always just quit a job. Completely understand that absolutely we have different responsibilities, we have different things we need to do. So, but while you have the job, you can continuously look for something new. You can keep your eyes open. You can do all the steps that you need to find something new.

But when you're stuck in something that you're unhappy with, it's, it's like you lose twice. It's not only are you unhappy in what you're doing, but all of that time that could have been put into something that is making you happy, is being taken away and focused in a different area. And so, so I've, I've found that when you're able to eliminate the things making you unhappy and open up that [00:12:00] space, it's able to be filled with all of the great things.

So, really. The best advice is yes, if you have those yellow flags, it's time to start looking. It is time to start making those changes. You can keep your job, but you can find something else in the meantime. And then I love the boundaries thing too, because I. Look, that's something that a lot of us don't learn until later on in life as well, right?

I mean, 

Sylvie Tongco: absolutely. And I think once again, you know, like not just because of imposter syndrome or whatever, but like it comes with the territory, right? Like in tech, especially super fast paced, you always feel like there's that deadline you have to get to and it needs to be done right now. But, there are certain things where, you know, of course everything's important, but mm-hmm.

If it's not like a real, real true like deadline, then we need to be able to also. You know, prioritize ourselves and be able to function well Right. In order to do our jobs well. So, absolutely. 

Jolie Downs: Yeah. And it's not something we're really taught either, you know, in general. And so it is something that [00:13:00] we need to learn and, and pay attention to because 

boundaries are what give us the ability to live, live our best lives generally For sure. 

Sylvie Tongco: And give the best to our, yeah. Whatever we're doing. 

Jolie Downs: Exactly, exactly. So I I love, I love that example. And I think it is a great example because so often we have that dichotomy right between the younger and the more senior as well.

Because often you don't learn that lesson until you do some growing. I can think of my own self, I mean uh, boundaries were not something that I knew a lot about, and so, now I'm really grateful for them and try to talk to younger people about what, how. Although a lot of younger people, I would say, are learning more about boundaries consistently than, than a lot of us were taught back in the day.

Sylvie Tongco: Oh, for sure. And I think, in some ways, like the TikTok generation or the younger, I, there's a lot to learn, but you know, for all of us too from them, right? Absolutely. Like, 'cause I feel like absolutely they have taken a little bit more control over their time and what they wanna do in some ways.

And so, yeah. [00:14:00] Um, there's definitely that balance. Yeah. 

Jolie Downs: Oh, they're redefining. They're absolutely redefining the whole culture of, of corporate America, if you ask me slowly. Yeah, sure. Slowly but surely. It's, it's really interesting. So now what about career challenges? 'cause we all have big career challenges in our life.

Is there something that you've experienced that you were able to overcome that you could share with us? 

Sylvie Tongco: Yeah, I mean, I think overall, obviously, I keep talking about imposter strength syndrome and just like, it's just so fresh, right? Like in my mind, just in general, when it comes to like women in tech and just overall, the feeling of being marginalized or sometimes like, whether it's like your younger self or your older self, right?

And so, many years ago, I had this particular experience, again, like, you know, just the, I think the differences in that when you're working inhouse versus an agency, just the differences in the personalities and the leadership that you come across, right? So, for me, there was a moment in my career where you kind of like look around and you do realize, you know, you're one of the few, right?

Like right sometimes in [00:15:00] the room. It's just, me as a woman and minority and, you know, in my early twenties, and I think there's that age bracket when you're young and then they feel like, okay, you are too junior to be giving me advice. And then of course, now we feel that ageism also as you get older.

But I recall early in my career, you know, as one of the directors in one of our clients, which was in storage, security, right we've just finished a briefing with the media. And then of course after that you typically give, some feedback and advice for the next round.

I remember that client particularly called my boss and was giving feedback about me that he didn't feel like I was senior enough to be leading that role. Mm-hmm. And there was that just a huge discrepancy in terms of like the feedback that my boss who had 20, you know, probably 15, 20 years more experience than I do.

Mm-hmm. Um, in myself. And so it was interesting because the way my, you know, my, again, like god bless her, like my boss handled it is instead of immediately, typically people would just pull you out of the account or sub somebody more [00:16:00] senior or her to take it on. But instead she actually, you know, she talked to me about it and she was like, I know exactly what he's saying, but at the same time, the expectations are different.

Right. And so, mm-hmm. She gave me instead more exposure and like to different accounts and different kind of like just giving me advice throughout the thing, right? Mm-hmm. And sometimes, you know, would even shadow and so that she could help me improve in my counsel. Yes. And to this day, you know, I try to like pay that forward because there's nothing worse than getting that kind of feedback.

Mm-hmm. And then. Being hammered for it instead of like learning from it and growing. And so I feel like just surrounding myself with people that actually do support and empower you and truly your ally, right? Not just for when it's convenient for them or they're trying to manage up, I think was the lesson for me.

And so I really try That's so beautiful. Do that also myself for others. 

Jolie Downs: Oh, that's really beautiful. No, you're right. You know, it makes me think of sports, [00:17:00] actually. I think of my sons who play sports, right? And, and if they make a sport, if they make a mistake on the basketball court, let's say they make a mistake, he's had coaches that would pull 'em, like, immediately, you make a mistake, pull 'em.

Right? And, and what would happen is, every time he'd go on the court, you know, it was like he, he was so worried about making mistakes. Stake that he, he just got worse and worse, right? The next year he had a different coach and if the coach saw a mistake or something, he might, you know, if there was something, he might pull you off, have a quick talk, and then send you back out, right?

Mm-hmm. So, so that you can learn from you, from learn from it. And he just kept getting better and better and better. And it was so interesting to see how the way you can treat someone, the same exact person, same skillset, can absolutely impact their performance. And how would that do? I mean, it's like, what is the saying?

 If we treat people as they are, we make them worse. If we treat people as they ought to be, we help them.

We help them become what they are capable of becoming. [00:18:00] Hmm. I love that. And that's what your manager did, basically. 

Sylvie Tongco: Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, and I think people also respond differently, right? To different kind of like, like feedback and management styles. And some people, you know, positive reinforcement is the way that they grow.

There are some people that, you know, when they get challenged they'll be like, oh, I'll show you, kind of thing, right? And so I think just my manager too, like knew how I was and probably, you know, that at that time we were working for like a couple of years already, and so you can kind of tell like how this person would perform their best and so you kind of like.

Tuned to like that and you know, try to coach them in that way as well. So, 

Jolie Downs: so important really. I mean, that's a great point too. 'cause we all do react differently to different kinds of feedback and it makes me think of a piece of advice that. That someone else had given with podcast guests had given, saying that every time they have new people come on board, any new team members, they do a sheet where it's like, [00:19:00] how to best work with me, if you will, which is basically just telling 'em about your personality, right?

And as the manager, she'll give it to the new people, come on her team so they understand her own personality. Like, don't read into this, this is just how I am about this. Oh, I like that. You know? And then she also asks for it from, the new teammates so that she can learn about how best to deal with them.

And it's, it's a good way to start. So, yeah, that makes me think of that. It is a really, it's a really good way to deal with team members and just to be cognizant of how we all learn and process information in different ways. So that's very helpful. You know, you have really some great companies, and you have consistently moved your way up through the ranks.

I'm wondering if there's anything that has helped you either land your roles or get your promotions. Is there anything that has given you a little extra step that you could share with other people? 

Sylvie Tongco: I mean, I think there are a couple of things. One, and people always say like, oh, build your network and all of that.

I think a lot of comms people in general are actually, [00:20:00] introverted extroverts, right? Mm-hmm. Like, or oh yes, extroverted introverts, which is, in my case that right? Like where I have to like muster that, like prepare and like be mentally prepared for the meetings and all of that.

And I think, just in general, cultivating relationships is obviously a good thing, but not under the guise of just doing it because you need to, right? Like really have those connections even before you need them, but just be authentically like, interested, right? Mm-hmm. Like genuinely interested in keeping in touch with people.

I think it's obviously like just one general advice that everybody, probably gives and receives, but I actually like one of your recent podcasts. I couldn't agree more. He mentioned that, being vocal about really where what you want and where you wanna go, which is, I think half the time we tend to, you know, underestimate, like just being vocal about right.

What you need or what you want. And so this was like mid-career too. You know, I am not a self-promoter. I just, do the work and hope that my managers, and I've been lucky to have a lot of [00:21:00] amazing managers and mentors that just recognize, the amount of work that you put in without having to like talk up myself.

Right? Yeah. But there are points in time obviously, that you need to speak up and ask. And I was fortunate enough, like this one agency that I worked at, that I was actually being recruited by another agency. Mm-hmm. Through a referral from a New York Times reporter that I was close to and was working with.

And which is obviously in itself is like a huge kind of favor. But I, so I took the dinners and the meetings 'cause I figured like, why not? Right? At that time I loved my team and I really didn't want to make a move, but I figured, you know, it's worth taking those calls in those meetings.

And so, yeah. When I finally got an offer, I really didn't wanna leave my team. Right. But I also didn't want my manager to feel like I was just doing it as leverage. But Julie, I can't even say like. The, the offer was just so much more than mm-hmm. And we all know, like in the agency side, yes. Like it's the experience that you gain, right?

Yeah. From, and so we're [00:22:00] willing to, like, I, I loved my clients, I loved my team, but it was just impossible to ignore the fact that, Hey, you know what this is, it would hit me in six figures before I turned 30. So I'm like, I talked to my, my direct, like my team manager at that point, and I said, here's the thing, right?

Like I wasn't seeking this out. I didn't apply. Of course I took the meetings and the dinners and the lunches, but, um, here's the offer. And she was like, oh boy. Like that's more than what I make. Right? Like, and so, but she was like, but you know, like obviously I love you. Like I want you to stay. And I said, mm-hmm.

And I understand if you can't match or beat it, right? But she actually went to our founders and. I got it. And she was willing to get paid less than she was like, I'll figure out myself, but I really, you know, I, I value and value in this team, and so I stayed. Right. Amazing. Because she was able to, which what I'm saying is like, there is, there are those moments where I.

I was just gonna give notice and you know, like, oh, [00:23:00] it's a great opportunity. You're probably not gonna be able to match it. But like, the fact that I had that direct and honest conversation with her enabled both of us to win in the end, right? Yes. 'cause of course she also got a promotion. It's like ridiculous to, you know, and we also, for everybody it kind of like

elevated everyone else as well, because we saw that what the market was willing to pay for our caliber, our level. And so everybody else also benefited. So I think just in general being truthful and speaking up for what you want and what you can, you know, you believe in.

Jolie Downs: Absolutely open conversation, open honest conversation is, is like a bedrock to success really, you know? 

Sylvie Tongco: Absolutely. 

Jolie Downs: Yeah. And we so often don't do it. And, not only in career, but in life. I mean, we hold ourselves back and there is so much beauty that happens when we're just open and honest and have those conversations.

And here's the thing, it, when you have those conversations with your manager. You know, one of two things will happen. Either, either they can [00:24:00] work with you to get where you need to be, or they can't work with you to get where you need to be. And, both sides, there's very valuable information to have and to know.

Either way, having that information, having those conversations then allows you to make whatever decisions are gonna be best for you. But you're right, if you don't have those conversations, you could make decisions that maybe they aren't the best decisions just because you don't have all the information, you didn't have those conversations or what have you.

Yeah. So, yeah, and I think it's a great example because I think a lot of times people are scared to have those open, honest conversations. And so hearing stories like this helps take away some of that fear and realize that there is a lot of great things that happen on the other side of honesty.

Sylvie Tongco: Yeah, no, for sure. And I think, I mean, again, it really depends also, and I recognize it especially now, you know, like just given what's happening in our macro environment, there's a lot of, like you can't always have those kinds of conversations and I'm so leaders, I've been really lucky to have leaders that just empower and really [00:25:00] true, genuinely just are, you know, like just theme first and mm-hmm.

Jolie Downs: Um, and, you know, so. Absolutely. And, and here's the thing, when you come in with an offer that can have different situations depending on who your manager is and what, as a recruiter, I, what I tell candidates when candidates are talking to me and they're looking to make a change, I'm always wondering, well, why are you looking to make a change?

What's happening? What's going on? You know, just what's driving you here? Right? And, if I hear that there's things that a company could do to make them happy, then I will tell them, like, look, before you get an offer, go talk to your boss now. Go talk to them. Find out, you know, let them know what it is you need, what it is that you want, what kind of path you wanna go on.

See if they can give you what you need now before you go find something else. And, and if they can, great. And if they can't, then, you know, one way or the other. But, it's always great to have those con, you know you don't need to have an offer. I, in fact, I suggest going without the offer, you know, have the conversation first without the offer if possible because, like you said, it depends [00:26:00] on the manager and sometimes when you come in with the offer and, some managers aren't going to be as emotionally

elevated and 'cause that can trigger, you know? Right. That could trigger some things in some people who may not have as high eq. 

Sylvie Tongco: Yep, for sure. And I'm sure you know, you've experienced this as a recruiter too, where you know, some managers take. Resignations the wrong way, right? Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Where it's almost like, oh, then you know, goodbye kind of thing. So yes, exactly. Sometimes I think that's the, the root of why sometimes there's no transparency or you feel mm-hmm like, you're like, oh, you know, blindsided because, maybe it's a lack of sharing or maybe mm-hmm of those kinds of things where, you know, like all of a sudden your contributions are minimized just because you gave notice.

Like, you know, like Exactly. So Exactly. I celebrate the time and you know, like all, everything that you've done as a team within the company and celebrate the next step in your career. And, but something doesn't always happen that way. 

Jolie Downs: Yeah, yeah. So you do, you do need [00:27:00] to know who you're dealing with.

But yes, if you're feeling like there's something that they could do to make you happy, I always tell people, go talk to 'em. Have those conversations without the offer. See what can happen. And then, you know. Later on, if you get that offer, you can always go have another conversation if you need to.

But 

that's good advice. Yeah. 

Jolie Downs: But, so yeah, so really that's really great advice though overall. Thank you for sharing that and you know, before you go, I always love to ask people because I'm really passionate about feeding our minds in a very proactive way, especially, especially in this day and age.

I mean, we're just getting bombarded with so much information and so much of it does not serve us or help us in any way, shape or form. So I love to know, is there anything that you have read, watched, or listened to that has had a positive impact on you that could potentially help others as well?

Sylvie Tongco: Yeah, actually it's right on like along the lines of what you just talked about. I am just finish reading a book called Why Simple Wins. I know it's not the newest, but, it's by Lisa Bode [00:28:00] and, you know, in tech and in general in our lives, right? We've, I feel like jobs have been made so complicated over the last few years, right?

And I always look back at like the best teams that I've had in my career and the best jobs. It's usually when everybody in the team. It doesn't make things difficult for each other, right? Mm-hmm. Like we're mm-hmm. It's just simple and that's kind of like what the book talks about, right? Like, it was funny because one of the data points that I, it pointed out was that I think an average manager has actually less than like six and a half or seven hours of uninterrupted work.

Time, like to get the actual work done because of all of the meetings and all of the red tape, like everything that we have to go through, right? So many right. To review everything. And so if only we could simplify, things that would make our lives like just work professional lives easier. And just in general is comms professionals too, right?

Like it's usually, it's the simplicity in our language that actually mm-hmm gets across even better. And so [00:29:00] not just for work, you know, making it simple, but in our messaging and whatever we say, I think it's applicable to, or at least that's where my mind went when I was reading everything. But yeah, why Simple Wins is, it's a great book and especially for struggling to, you know, for, for those in jobs where there's like endless kind of

approvals and reviews mm-hmm. And everything that need to get done, or 40 requirements of like 40 page PowerPoint presentations to, you know, to get one rack up. So, I think it's a really good, good, good read for, for everybody in tech right now. Fantastic. 

Jolie Downs: I'm curious, was there a suggestion in there on how to simplify that stuck with you in, in either your career or your life?

Sylvie Tongco: I think just in general, asking yourself is like, is this a requirement right now? Right. Like, and so, in one of the examples that she gave, like all of those meetings that we just get invited to, right? Right. You as yourself. Like, okay, do I really need to one, if you're the, you're sending the meeting yourself, right?

Like, this need to be a meeting [00:30:00] or, you know, yes. Do I need all of these people, 15 people in this meeting, or could it be an email or, you know, could it have a smaller audience? So I think even those kind of like small steps. Is important and as recognizing just because I'm not present in this meeting doesn't mean I'm not gonna be involved in the decisions, or it doesn't mean that I don't care about a specific project.

So, I think that's an important recognition. Yeah. Yes. 

Jolie Downs: Really, really good insight. I love that. So sim and so simple. You know, and you know what this is, I, I agree it, I have been going back to the simple things, back to the basics a lot and 'cause they, they are incredibly powerful and a lot of times when things aren't working, that's kind of where you need to go.

Just to go, go back to those basics. Go back to the simple. Recalibrate and get back on the path, so I love it. Sylvie, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us. Before you go, I'm gonna throw out my last final question, just to hear what you have to say. What are you sure of in life?

Sylvie Tongco: I am sure that [00:31:00] I like just in general or?

Jolie Downs: Yeah. What I, I just love this question because really like when you think about it, like what are you sure of? You know, like when you strip away, like, no, really, what are you sure of? And so it's a really interesting question to to hear. Yeah. What answers people come up with?

I 

Sylvie Tongco: think I the only thing that I'm certain of is that, you know, things will change, right? Yeah. Like, things always change and, you know, you can only be sure of yourself and what you're gonna do and how you react to things. So, yeah. You know, just have better control over your reactions and what you cared about day to day.

Jolie Downs: So Good. You know what, and on that actually, I'm gonna ask. One more question because it is really, this is an important topic, how you control your reactions. Is there anything that you've learned that helps you control your reactions? 'cause really, this is something I think so many of us really need right now.

Sylvie Tongco: Oh, for sure. Well, I think, one of the things that I feel like I've honed through the years, when I'm in front of a stakeholder or a C-level leader, I. I just try to like [00:32:00] pause and keep that calm. And so I don't know if that's like a superpower or not, but like you just have to learn to, again, like you can only control so many things, right? Mm-hmm. And so focus on those that you can, and the rest of it you just.

Gotta let go. 

Jolie Downs: That's great. No, the power of the pause is a absolute superpower. And really that is key right there, right? I mean, so much can change if we all just harness the power of the pause before we reacted 

Sylvie Tongco: before. Exactly. Like, just don't, don't react and haste. Right. Because yeah, nothing ever

like good comes of that and mm-hmm. Another actually that reminds me of just one last tip that I've, learned through the years also one of my great managers, is that every time you have, if you write an email in haste, right? Like responding to something, like something at work that you're not happy about or whatever, sleep on it.

Don't send it right at that moment. Right. Give it a day, two days, reread it because [00:33:00]oftentimes, you know your emotions of course shift and your, what you wanna say changes and you can soften it. And really every time you sleep on an email, there will be something else that you want.

Would you rather like write day? And I think it will be, yeah. It's career saving in a lot of ways. Yes. 

Jolie Downs: I was just gonna say that this, this advice could be life, career changing for people could say at least save them a lot of heartache. 

Sylvie Tongco: Yes. Yes. 

Jolie Downs: So Sylvie, thank you so much for joining us on the career one of this podcast.

This has been wonderful and I'm very grateful for your time. 

Sylvie Tongco: Thank 

Jolie Downs: you, Jolie.

Thank you for joining us on the Career Wanderlust Podcast. If you find value in learning from others, give us a like and subscribe. If you're looking to grow your communications, marketing, public relations, or sales and biz dev team with the best talent, and quickly check us out@paradigmstaffing.com and submit a [00:34:00] request.

We are wishing you a most successful and fulfilling career Until next time.