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Soul Bruises
As a lifelong believer in Christ, I’ve grown weary of witnessing harm within spiritual settings. I’m tired of pretending it isn’t happening or convincing myself that spiritual abuse isn’t a serious issue—one that not only plagues the church but is also spreading beyond religious institutions.
This is why the Soul Bruises podcast was created. It’s dedicated to exposing, educating, and ultimately working toward the eradication of spiritual abuse in all its forms. Whether you can relate to my experiences or bring your own perspective to the table, I hope Soul Bruises offers a balanced and thorough exploration of the issue.
Whether you’re a spiritual leader, a member of a church, or someone with no connection to God or religion, I challenge you to reconsider your assumptions about spiritual abuse. I encourage you to tune in.
With each episode, I hope you gain a clearer understanding of what spiritual abuse is, how it manifests in religious and non-religious settings, who it affects, and why it’s crucial to address it with honesty and purpose.
Soul Bruises
Episode 20 - Breaking Out Of The Cage: Rebellion, Misplaced Loyalty and Authentic Faith - Part 3 of 3 (Featuring Pastor/Chaplain Kristy Hodson)
What happens when your spirituality becomes a battleground? When your voice, appearance, and very humanity are treated as problems to be fixed rather than gifts to be celebrated?
Pastor and Chaplain, Kristy Hodson takes us deep into her journey through high-control religion, revealing the subtle yet devastating ways spiritual abuse can damage our connection to both community and the divine. With remarkable honesty, she shares how attempting to create positive change from within left her "bitter, resentful, and tired" as she faced resistance for simply refusing to make herself smaller.
The conversation explores the unique challenges faced by women in patriarchal religious systems, where something as simple as correcting someone who addresses a room of pastors as "gentlemen" can lead to being labeled a "militant feminist." Kristy explains how the box of conformity becomes a cage, trapping both those who perpetrate spiritual abuse and those who experience it.
Most powerfully, Kristy offers a profound reframing of how we talk about spiritual abuse: "My spirituality was abused by what you did. My soul was harmed and damaged." This shift centers the impact rather than debating whether actions qualify as abuse, making space for true healing to begin.
For anyone who has felt their authentic spiritual self diminished by religious control, this episode offers both validation and hope. Kristy's journey toward healing includes learning to trust herself again, finding supportive community, and remembering who she was "before trauma gave me a detour." Her message resonates with unmistakable clarity: You are not alone, your voice matters, and true faith gives you a voice, not a muzzle.
Join us for this essential conversation about breaking free from spiritual control and rediscovering an authentic connection to faith that honors your whole being. Wherever you are on your spiritual journey, this episode invites you to remember that you belong and that your spirituality is worth defending.
"Be Human, Be Kind, Be Both."
I tried, but for a time I thought I'm going to be one of those people. I'm going to fix it from the inside out right, just like I said before when I was in the accounting side of things. That was my life. I'm going to learn how to fix it from the inside out. Bring in the knowledge that I have, make it better. But it didn't get better and I became bitter, resentful and tired. I was spiritually drained because I was trying, spent all my time trying to defend my own spirituality and humanity Because they were saying both of them were unacceptable. The system to give me permission, because of the messed up and distorted and misaligned loyalty, to call what I was experiencing as abusive.
Christie Hodson:Wow, that's an element that I didn't expect you to mention. Yeah, wow, because you didn't feel like you could get that. You feel like you couldn't get any of that truth within the system, could you?
Kristy Hodson:Right, I could say I was hurt, yeah, but again, oh, I can't call it abusive because that's disloyal. Yeah, they wouldn't abuse, yeah, no it was abusive.
Christie Hodson:Which is why people have called spiritual abuse such an oxymoron, because spiritual is a wonderful thing and abuse is a terrible thing. How can they go together?
Kristy Hodson:Right. But to say, yes, this does hit the litmus test of being abuse. Yes, yeah, it does not need to be minimized. Yeah, it is serious. Yeah, because church hurt maybe, maybe not serious Abuse trauma, that's serious.
Christie Hodson:Hello, my friends and fellow soul defenders. My name is Christie and this is Soul Bruises, a podcast devoted to naming and addressing spiritual abuse. Whether this is your first time listening or you've been here before, I'm so glad you're with me. Spiritual abuse won't go away on its own. You're with me. Spiritual abuse won't go away on its own. It takes many of us speaking up and refusing to accept harm done in God's name. This podcast is my contribution and I'd love for you to join me in raising awareness and creating healthier, more honest communities of faith. We won't shy away from hard conversations here. I know these topics can stir up strong emotions or even painful memories, so please take care of yourself. If you need to pause or step away, that's okay. You're not alone and I'm here to support you. I want to say a special hello to Soul Brews listeners in Sterling, Massachusetts, Kent, Ohio, Bismarck, North Dakota and Upper Marlboro, Maryland. No matter where you're tuning in from, I hope you feel seen, loved and supported.
Christie Hodson:We're picking up where we left off after the last episode of an interview I did with pastor and chaplain Kristy Hodson. This is the conclusion of that interview. I hope you're able to listen to the previous two episodes for better context. I'm deeply grateful to Kristy Hodson and to others who courageously speak on behalf of so many, bringing hope and encouragement to those who may feel lost, discouraged or pushed aside by a community that focuses more on outward behaviors than the intentions of the heart, than the intentions of the heart. What I hope you take away from this conversation is the reminder that you have purpose, you belong and you are not stuck where you are.
Christie Hodson:These episodes are dedicated to Kristy's dad.
Christie Hodson:Sadly, Kristy's dad died unexpectedly shortly after this interview was recorded. This episode is dedicated to his memory. John Hodson Sr was 73 years old.
Christie Hodson:You mentioned how high control religion in your life wanted you to simply fall in line, fearing that others might want to follow your example Like you mentioned the tattoo the kids will want a tattoo and you explained that things became more complicated when you became a pastor, especially a female pastor in a patriarchal religion. Is there anything along that line that you want to share, especially a female pastor in a patriarchal religion? Do you? Is there anything on the along that line that I want to share?
Kristy Hodson:Well, I got a lot of criticism and pushback, just for speaking up, if I wanted to make a correction or try to get a change in language, just to be a little bit more inclusive. There, this is a funny story. So we were at a pastor's meeting. I was the only woman in the room and someone comes up who was on our staff, who works there, did a presentation and said good morning gentlemen. And I said and lady, yes, I love it. And you know they, everybody started laughing like ha ha ha, that's Kristy, her and her big mouth. But it made them uncomfortable. Yes, yes, that I would not let myself be erased. Lowered yeah.
Kristy Hodson:And it made them uncomfortable that I dared to say hey, I'm going to correct you in real time in front of all our peers. Yes, yes, even though I know it wasn't meant maliciously we need to change our language. We need to be aware.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, and so much of our, of our actions start with language, you know yeah.
Kristy Hodson:So part of the problem why I was called militant, why people complained, why they criticized, part of my problem is I was not sorry that I did not fall into line. I was not sorry I didn't fit into their box. I was supposed to be humble and submissive and say oh, thank you, sir, for putting me in my place, let me scurry to it. Wow, but I didn't, and that's what they were upset about. So, like when I was brought before one of the officers because I was wearing pants, their fix was for me to no longer wear pants on the platform.
Kristy Hodson:They did their part. They told me there was a problem with it. So it was up to me then to wear long skirts or whatever, to make the change. And I didn't, because I thought it was an unreasonable expectation. And that's where I went wrong. I did not allow myself to be pushed back into line, and that's because my personality, the things that I think that are important to me, my voice, my appearance they were problems to be fixed and I didn't fix them to their satisfaction. Wow, because I said they're not problems to be fixed.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, and often if you give resistance, they don't have the script for that, so then you get a reactive response. Being called a militant feminist in my face yes, A reacting response or a dominating response, like I'm over you, you will submit to me you know sort of feeling yeah, there's no, like we're on the same level playing field. Let's talk this over.
Kristy Hodson:Yeah, right, it was. Hey, call me by my first name, cause we're peers, even though I'm your boss. But why are you not doing exactly what I want you to do? Why are you not doing exactly what I want you to do? Yeah, why are you not falling in line when I tell you you're wrong.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, okay, yeah. So your resistance truly, like, revealed how they truly felt about you. But it wasn't. But was it their reaction to your resistance that caused the deepest pain, or did it come from the fact that they didn't see you for who you were? They only saw the person they wanted you to be, the behaviors they wanted you to exhibit and the opinions they wanted you to hold. And in the realm of being a woman pastor, you weren't allowed to say it hurts without being labeled a militant feminist or a complainer. Right? Can you explain what happened if you pushed back?
Kristy Hodson:So it was very much by pushed back. At one point in time we were in a Zoom meeting, right, and there was misinformation in a slide. In a slide, basically what was being presented was that Gen- Z has no ethics and no values because they don't have a Bible as the basis for it. Right, and this was a presentation that other pastors were talking about, saying how they really enjoyed a lot of the content and they wanted to share it with their church members. Right, and church members and another pastor had made some really brusque and harsh comments before and that was his personality and no one said anything. That's just who he was.
Kristy Hodson:And I said actually that's not true, because if you look at who's out there protesting in the streets, if you look at who's out there protesting in the streets, it's their Gen- Z. They have a lot of values, they have ethics, even if they're not coming from the same place you are. You can't say that they have zero ethics. That is 100% wrong and does a disservice. And afterwards I got a call saying how dare I confront this officer in front of everybody else? Wow, wow.
Kristy Hodson:Because I needed to know my place and it embarrassed him that I called him out and corrected him, and I did it nicely, but another person can literally have an argument with him, and that was fine because they did it all the time
Christie Hodson:All it takes is is, you know, a few conversations with
Christie Hodson:I'm making a general statement here, but, like the majority of them, are very tuned into humanity, right? They just, you know they don't always have the money to create things, but man man, their passion is in that place.
Kristy Hodson:Yeah, Right, and the assumption there's only one place to get your values right and your ethics? Yes, but so I would speak up and I'd be pulled up to the carpet, right? I need to know my place. Don't talk back, your voice is not valid. Yeah, is what was said without being said, so please don't or that I didn't know what I was talking about. So dismissed, we would love it if you weren't here, is the feeling I got. Yeah, because you can't fit in. So why are you here?
Christie Hodson:But you're a human with real emotions. How do you feel like your highly controlling religious environment prepared you for processing these feelings? Because obviously they're creating an environment where even a strong person like yourself is having some really incredible emotions because it's just outright being mean.
Kristy Hodson:I don't think it prepared me to feel my feelings right To be able to name your feelings. One of the reasons why I read "Atlas of the Heart" by Brene Brown when it came out is so that it would give me the language to name some of my feelings Interesting. Okay, yeah, so it's been an ongoing journey. I would want to describe what was going on, rationalize them away, but not sit and feel with them.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, Again, it was like putting language to our feelings. If I remember, right at the start of it she talks about how most of us think there's just sad, glad or angry or something like that. And there was what? 80, some different emotions, being in a highly controlled environment where the focus is primarily not solely on information, as if it's what matters most. Yet as humans, we have this personal experience that touches the very core of our being. Do you think, personally, it's possible for a religion to even talk about emotions, or is it just? Is it just , is it just an information thing?
Kristy Hodson:I think we limit ourselves when we put spirituality in the box of religion. It is so much more than that. Yeah, I think religion is one way to express part of your spirituality. It's not the be all and end all, and you often hear this. People say that they're spiritual but not religious. Yeah, and you can be religious and not spiritual as well.
Christie Hodson:Right, but I think it's just such a bigger box can you explain how this spirituality transcends religion and why this distinction could be so important?
Kristy Hodson:For me, our spirituality goes to who we are at our core. You think of your soul. We talk about our soul and that's our inner being, the who we are, the why we are, our sense of purpose. It's not beliefs or dogmas, it transcends all of that, yeah. Yeah.
Christie Hodson:So did you sometimes feel like your pain was met with a quote, unquote thoughts and prayers, instead of like real emotional support from spiritual leaders?
Kristy Hodson:Yeah, I think definitely. It's a. That's your problem. We're not going to do any action for it. the, so there's no consequences that are going to be meted out, and so you need to deal with this in your own spiritual life and come to terms with this is okay okay um, so zero support.
Kristy Hodson:There's there's something that happened to me. I was um in my 20s, my early 20s, I was working as an accountant, again in the public sector, and I was looking into maybe helping being treasurer with the treasury for a church that I had recently started to go to. So they didn't really know me very well Because it's a small evidence community. The pastor knew some of my family, very charismatic guy, and he asked me to do something that I felt was financially unethical. And because I was exploring, wanting to help, and I didn't feel like I could tell anyone or that I would be taken seriously, because this guy just was like oh, that's not a problem, that's not going to be an issue, and he'd been there forever. Everyone, everything he went, was like oh, that's not a problem, that's not going to be an issue.
Kristy Hodson:been there forever, everyone, everything he went was like oh, if he says it's okay, it should be fine when. I'm like, if I do this thing that I don't think is really on the up and up, it could actually hurt me professionally as well and I don't want to take that risk. And because I didn't feel like there was any support in the meeting where it took place because I wasn't the only person where he asked me to do something. I'm like that doesn't really sound right. I was getting pressure.
Christie Hodson:He was asking other people to do similar things.
Kristy Hodson:No, just for me for this thing, because we were talking about this position and there was other people in the room who also didn't think it was an issue, okay, but room who also didn't think it was an issue. But I thought it was an issue, it violated my ethical boundaries, didn't think it was right and I thought it would get it could impact my professional career. And because I wasn't taken seriously, if there was ever any discussion, this older gentleman who's of my parents' generation they definitely believe him over his 20-something chick with tattoos and wearing earrings to church and who thinks she's all that. So I just stopped going to church altogether.
Christie Hodson:Stopped going
Kristy Hodson:Because I knew my voice wasn't worth being heard
Christie Hodson:Shoot
Kristy Hodson:Yeah Being heard, shoot yeah. And so I just went out, worked, lived my life and it was so freeing because I didn't have to look over my shoulder to see, oh, who's watching? Who's going to report back that I'm not meeting the standard that the church has. Right, and yes, I missed out because I missed having spiritual discussions, I missed the community of a church, but I didn't feel safe going back to that place what might have changed that whole scenario if you had the same same pastor, the same charisma?
Christie Hodson:What you had some of the people around him? What if they gave you support or called out the unethicalness?
Kristy Hodson:I think if someone said, wow, I totally get where you're coming from, I didn't see it that way, but I see how important this is to you. We'll take these five extra steps that you think we need to take first, I would have felt heard, I would have felt empowered, I would have felt like my voice mattered. So if there was another important thing that I needed to share, it wouldn't have felt like David and Goliath Wow. It actually took me moving out of state and basically doing a complete restart for me to be ready to try to go back to church again and find that community. Wow.
Christie Hodson:Was that something you did within yourself, or something yeah?
Kristy Hodson:Because I had also moved to a place where I didn't know anybody and so I'm like I only know people at work. I'm their boss, I'm a manager, so I can't be friends with everybody. Well, let me try the local churches and see. You know, I love Sabbath school. It was my favorite part. I don't like hearing sermons, I like preaching them.
Christie Hodson:Like being interactive
Kristy Hodson:Right, right, and so I like where I can share my ideas and my thoughts and we can talk about it. And so discussion-based let me make that very clear discussion-based Sabbath schools were what brought me back to church, and sometimes I would just go for that and not stay for the church sermons Okay, because I needed that to stretch my spiritual muscles and get me to critically think about what I was saying and keep developing and growing without the pat answers.
Christie Hodson:So it wasn't even your culture of like going to church every Sabbath that brought you back. It was a true desire to still search for you know, the answers on things you know a free exchange of ideas yes, yeah, okay, okay. So let's step into an uncomfortable room for a bit, okay. Soul Bruises is a podcast where spiritual abuse is exposed and discussed out loud. What seems to be the church's response to the term spiritual abuse?
Kristy Hodson:It seems that the only abuse that's even considered a little bit taken seriously is if it's sexual abuse by someone in a church setting, especially children. I think it often gets overlooked, even if it's adults, and it is too often considered a consensual relationship like an affair. But because of the power dynamic and again the spiritual, spiritual abuse you've just messed up someone's relationship with their church and their divine because of who you are and what you're standing is in the church or how you know, then that is not, you can't consent, and so I think really the only time that they listen and they hear spiritual abuse, they're really thinking like child sexual abuse.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, because that one's pretty blunt, like a child doesn't have the power over an adult. An adult obviously is committing a crime. They go to jail. It seems pretty cut and dry.
Kristy Hodson:Right.
Christie Hodson:Awful, Terrible.
Kristy Hodson:Or even if it's a child with another child. Yes, because I've seen that happen as well. Yeah, and then that's taken very seriously.
Christie Hodson:Yes, yeah, but the other, it's, like you said, defined it has to be criminal.
Kristy Hodson:Yes, for it to be taken seriously.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, yeah.
Kristy Hodson:Well and yes, for it be taken seriously. Yeah, yeah, well, and we do it too in domestic violence situations. They care about the physical pain. I don't know many times that someone's gone to jail for emotional or financial or social abuse or any of those other kinds of abuses, right?
Christie Hodson:There are some people in I think it's in other countries that are exploring the idea of it being something punitive. Do you have any thoughts on that, like, do you feel like that's the way a church should go or do you feel like this is not quite that cut and dry Like the way to deal with spiritual abuse in a church? Should we be arresting people?
Kristy Hodson:If it's illegal, absolutely it should be police, before you talk to any other church leaders. A crime is a crime is a crime, especially if it is with a child or anything like child, or if it is a crime and you are covering it up, you are aiding and abetting a criminal.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, yeah.
Kristy Hodson:Right, I don't care how nice of a person they are, they apparently aren't 100 percent nice. Right, they've got their wool over somebody's eyes. Right, they've got their wool over somebody's eyes and it is not our job as a church congregation, or even as church leaders, to do the investigation to see if it's valid to go to the police. Yeah, yeah, right, if it is something that someone's being accused of, that's a crime. It's not our job. We're not equipped. That's why they have investigators. If it's a false accusation which is the biggest fear, you know they'll figure that out.
Kristy Hodson:Yeah
Christie Hodson:Well, and often, spiritual abuses is connected with sexual abuse, financial abuse, yeah,
Kristy Hodson:well I I read a story recently one of the gentlemen I went to seminary with got arrested for child sexual abuse. He was pastor, his church members. The church members were trying to reach out to him in jail to comfort him, where the attorneys had to say you can't be doing this. Yeah, okay, right. So sometimes there's such a hold in a well. We need to forgive and I need to comfort this. You know person who did something awful, but what message is that sending to the person who's hurting in their family? You're going to pick the abuser over them, and that happens so often. Even if it's.
Kristy Hodson:You know someone who's divorcing their spouse and they're just regular church members and you're going to choose the abuser over you're going to like punish the victim for coming to church, and it's awful yeah
Christie Hodson:I know this is happening with um somebody I know where the husband has been abusive to the wife and he's up in leadership. He's not a, he's not the pastor or anything, but the church is believing his narrative over the wife and the and the children and that is spiritual abuse.
Christie Hodson:Yes, yes, and, and I am not one to think that we should go in the punitive direction, but the harm that this causes is so worth like talking about over and over again so we can see what it is. So we can you know not? Not let that be a part of our um.
Kristy Hodson:Yeah, right and the more you talk about it and the more you bring it up, the easier it is right. Yeah, um, the you know it will become standard place to be like. Hey, today is abuse awareness. Hey, let's all learn together. We all make mistakes. We were all taught these things that no longer serve us Right. How can we relearn how to be in community together? Yeah, yeah.
Kristy Hodson:Because sometimes it is an unintentional hurt, right? Sometimes it's oh wow, I totally need to reshape, shift my thinking about something, or it is. Hey, we need to take a class in empathy yes, yes, we need to take a class in bystander awareness. Um, as a congregation, so we can call these out, because they do need to be called out, yeah, and not hidden and not poked away yeah yeah, um, does that mean that you can't love an abuser and find a way for care for them?
Kristy Hodson:great, but not at the same place. It's like having couples counseling together with a couple that's being abusive to one another. You gotta have your own first. Yeah, you can't. You're not ready for that.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, yeah, there's a time for that Right After both entities are healed or taken accountability for whatever, Anytime you make that sides it can be really difficult.
Kristy Hodson:Yes, and often it's the, you know, like the side of the charismatic person or the leader that tends to get the more majority, or we have to love the sinner, so we need to make sure that they feel loved, and then you're ignoring the person they hurt. Yeah, yeah.
Christie Hodson:That's so damaging for the victim. So would you say that not calling it spiritual abuse would be like a form of bypassing? Not calling it spiritual abuse would be like a form of bypassing, because abuse is like this harsh word and it makes people feel uncomfortable talking about it. But if it's something that's truly causing harm and trauma, why shouldn't we call it for what it is?
Kristy Hodson:So I think one of the reasons I do think it's bypassing, because it is abusive and painful. And just because something's not criminal doesn't mean it's not abusive, right. But when we call something abuse, that means that we need to act. Right, because we all feel, as far as I know, that abuse is unethical and unhealthy, right? So then I have to take a look, a long, hard look, and admit my part in the spiritual abuse. So if I called it out and it's happening, and I know these people, or I'm somehow involved or complicit in it, whether it was intended or not, I need to look.
Kristy Hodson:Does the system need to change? I'm a part of this system that made this possible. That's letting it happen. Where does the change need to be? And that requires us examining our beliefs, sometimes our traditions, our culture, our. This is the way we've always done it and that's hard work. Yes, yes, confronting yourself in the mirror. Sometimes we do it because we have that misplaced loyalty to institution or the charismatic leader, and so we think that if we hold them accountable, oh, it's going to make it to the news, and then what are people going to think? And then they're going to lose their faith, because we have to defend faith. That's not our job, we have to defend faith.
Kristy Hodson:That's not our job. Yeah, I would think that if I called, if I took part and admitted there was abuse and did something to rectify the situation, that would show a greater compassion and faith than ignoring it.
Kristy Hodson:To say, yeah, we can deal with the crap that happens and we're going to call it crap and not of God. Right, I want to be a part of that church, Right Than the one who's so afraid of oh. They're not going to believe in faith in God anymore if we tell them that we're human beings and we do these terrible things. Yeah.
Christie Hodson:Like, the gig will be up.
Kristy Hodson:Yeah, and then we don't have to change anything.
Christie Hodson:Yes, let's just pretend it's not an issue. Pretend it's not there. What do you call that? The object permanence.
Kristy Hodson:Oh yeah, I don't have object permanence. If I can't see it, it's not there.
Christie Hodson:So I'm just going to not even listen to it, I'm not going to acknowledge it. Yeah, exactly, which is so damaging?
Kristy Hodson:So in part of that too. So, like one of the most overlooked ways I think that someone can be spiritually abused is when that system, like a closed system, declares divine authority and says who are you to be saying this to me? Why do you think you're allowed to feel and think these things? Wow, Shame on you for thinking this was yours to intervene in.
Kristy Hodson:Yeah, you're just a bystander
Christie Hodson:And that kind of goes into the DARVO effect when people, when even we point the finger at our own selves, our own church or whatever.
Christie Hodson:We just you know, we first go to denying it and then we're just like, okay, well, who's to blame? Who's to blame? You know, who can I attack to blame? And then that reverse victim and offender aspect of DARVO is like, well, do we really want to deal with this, because our church will be the victim of us being misrepresented, when in reality it's like everybody's dealing with this issue.
Kristy Hodson:We don't want to open a can of worms, right Right, or hang out our dirty laundry right, yeah, but they both smell and they both need to be dealt with. And so if you ignore it, it's going to stay stinking in the corner, versus if you hang it out, then you know that you need to clean it. That's right, even if it takes someone else telling you hey, did you realize you missed a spot?
Christie Hodson:Yeah, I know, for me. I mean, I'm an introvert, I'm a peace person, but at the same time I got to the point where my silence was complicit. And so, even though I am not articulate, even though I'm still learning how to do this podcast thing, I was like I just got to start saying something facilitating the talking of it.
Kristy Hodson:Well, and there's a difference between peacekeeping and peacemaking. Yes, peacekeeping is passive. Yes, and you have to ask yourself I don't know, I don't remember who said this, this is not my idea. Whose peace? And you have to ask yourself I don't know, I don't remember who said this, this is not my idea. Whose peace are you keeping? Yep Versus peacemaking is very active. Yes, and it requires sacrifice.
Christie Hodson:Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. And I was keeping the peace.
Kristy Hodson:Well, that's what we're taught. We're taught to be peacekeepers, yeah.
Christie Hodson:Which we're taught. We're taught to be peacekeepers, yeah, which is so bizarre, because peace is a good thing, but like, when you actually break it down like that, it's like, yeah, peace is good, but that only happens because we take care of our infections, you know, and our issues. And yeah, you had a great way of expressing spiritual abuse. Can you describe what that was? I remember when you said it was like oh, that's awesome, that's awesome.
Kristy Hodson:So we are all spiritual beings, whether we have faith or not. I believe there is a part of us that you know, whether that's your spirituality of looking at the night sky, or you see divinity or greatness or something greater than yourself in your child's eyes or whatever it is, or my cat's eyes, you know something like that. So we are all spiritual beings. We want to have connections on whether we have faith or not. And so what would happen if you would say to someone who perpetrated religious abuse? So what would happen if you say to someone who perpetrated religious abuse or if I suffered religious abuse? So what would happen if you say to someone who perpetrated or if I suffered religious abuse? Right, you suggest that, what we? So I suggested that if you say I was abused spiritually, right, People look at that and be like okay, I want to know what happened to you, I want you know.
Kristy Hodson:People get curious, they want to know the details. Is it really abuse, that sort of stuff, right? So let's dig into that abuse word because it's uncomfortable, right? So what if you said to someone my spirituality was abused by what happened, by what you did. My soul was harmed and damaged by what you did, was harmed and damaged by what you did, and so maybe if we changed from blaming although the person should still be held accountable to hearing that our heart is in pain, yeah. Yeah.
Kristy Hodson:Cause. It's not about like this is going to sound bad, but it's not bad. It's not about the specific abuse that happened, which is horrible, but what is the impact of that happened, which is horrible, but what is the impact, yes, of that abuse? Yes, it's not that someone spiritually abused me, it's that my spirituality was abused
Christie Hodson:because even though they're both trauma, one is definitely long.
Christie Hodson:More can be more long-term trauma.
Kristy Hodson:Yeah part and it's not the actual event, it's the ramifications of it. Yes, that's what we hold in our body. Yes, the fact that we hold it in our body means that something has shifted. What happened to me shifted. What my life looks like internally
Christie Hodson:So can you say that one more time?
Christie Hodson:My spirituality was.....
Kristy Hodson:My spirituality was abused by what you did. What the system has done to me abused my spirituality. Yeah, my soul was harmed, and is that something that people can really debate? This is my experience, you know, and you could. It hurt my soul to hear that. Yeah, it hurt my soul to hear that. Yeah, it hurt my soul for that to happen. Yeah, it broke my heart that you would do this or think I was worth having this done to me. Right.
Kristy Hodson:It hurt my soul when you dismissed me, as if my soul was meaningless. Yeah. Yeah, wow Right, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Christie Hodson:Mm-hmm. You know pretty much that's going from like blaming to actually hearing the heart, which in the end is what you know we all need. Anyway, we're all in pain, but when we're in pain and we're projecting that on other people, it just, you know, we damage each other.
Kristy Hodson:It's interesting In chaplaincy work one of the things they told us. So, especially in a hospital setting, if you ask a patient how someone helped them, did they feel that they were helped spiritually right, or were they given spiritual care? Often what they say is is someone listened to me? That's what made the difference.
Kristy Hodson:I was heard, I was listened to!
Christie Hodson:Wow it seemed like such small things, but they're huge, aren't they? Yeah?
Kristy Hodson:okay, like a core spiritual intervention is active listening
Christie Hodson:And we've got to get better at that.
Christie Hodson:We're pretty good about talking, but not necessarily about listening.
Kristy Hodson:Yeah, because I'm forming my response. Yeah, to react Right, because we're so reactionary and we're such a fast-paced world. What if we take 30 seconds and absorb what we just heard.
Christie Hodson:Well, the gentleman that I listened to about communication. He's absolutely awesome. He says create a pause, breathe in that pause. I think he says five, six seconds, but just take that time to formulate, you know, or to regulate yourself before you move on. I thought that was powerful, or to regulate yourself before you move on. So I just thought that was powerful Because, yeah, pain is real and we definitely want to make sure everybody knows we're in pain, but that doesn't solve anything.
Kristy Hodson:And most of the time no one can fix anything for you anyway.
Christie Hodson:Right. Speaking about pain, it truly is at the heart of spiritual abuse, and often that is a pain that we've handed down from generation to generation. We've talked about this earlier. So often, not knowing what was happening in the past was abuse, but in our soul we knew something was not right. Will our generation address it more than our previous generations? I hope so. How does generational trauma still loom over our churches and families?
Kristy Hodson:I think it is still extremely relevant, especially if you have people who are multi-generational church members. Or maybe you are part of a small congregation where it's basically a family church and you get the patriarch and the matriarch and all the kids, adult children and their family and their kids and all that. If there's generational abuse, it can be right for the picking for it to become a spiritual abuse. If there's some sort of emotional abuse in that family dynamic, because everyone's going to defend their family and this you're being taught. Well, this happened to me. So this is the right way to deal with it or not, or this is the right thing to say or not, or this is the right standard or not. So I'm going to pass that down because that's all I know.
Kristy Hodson:It kind of goes back to my parents did the best they could, but they still messed up. You only know what you know. So if all you know is to speak to someone in a spiritually abusive way, that's all you're going to know. You don't know any better. And I think this generation, the fact that we're even talking about it yes, that's huge and there's conferences about it, there's podcasts, there's therapists who specialize in spiritual abuse I think we're realizing how essential it is. Yeah, even as people are becoming more spiritual, less religious and people are leaving churches, they still know that there's something spiritual inside them.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, because we're spiritual beings,
Kristy Hodson:Because we're spiritual beings.
Kristy Hodson:So we're getting better and better period in our culture about talking about trauma and generational trauma and wanting to break those cycles. So of course that's going to take in spiritual abuse, Okay. Okay, I think I mentioned too at one point that because of the way my the Seventh-day Adventist church was so a part of my family, its own, its own culture and its own family system it became an outer and mesh layer of my own family system. So that factors into the generational trauma because that's like in your mesh family system that's getting carried over and over and over right, just hey, that church system that's like my grandpa or my mom or my dad and and they kind of get thrown in that, even if there's no, it's an entity, not a person.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, oh, wow. You don't always think of it that way, but when you're spending so much of your time during the week with that family not only your base family, but the church family. So earlier you mentioned a quote by the authors David Johnson and Jeff Van Vonderen from their book "he Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, and the quote was the ones who perpetrate spiritual abuse on others are just as trapped in their unhealthy beliefs and actions as those they knowingly or unknowingly abuse."
Christie Hodson:How do you interpret the idea that perpetrators of spiritual abuse can also be trapped? And I know we talked a little bit about this earlier but what does that mean to you in the context of your own personal journey?
Kristy Hodson:That helps me give grace and to those that I see. So if I say, okay, this person, I think, totally dismissed me, try to minimize me. But if they're trapped in the system and they don't see it, I can have mercy and grace and be like, wow, I don't have to accept what they're saying, right, I can keep calling it out, but I can have empathy and compassion and understand why they can't understand me. Yeah, that's powerful.
Kristy Hodson:Again, that doesn't mean that I have to have a restored relationship with these people or that part of the system or whatever it is, but I can know where they're coming from and say I'm not going to carry what they just threw at me because they're trapped too.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, it really indicates that you're looking at the humanity rather than the system, because, in the end, the system doesn't, you know, it's just another man-made entity, and it's really about you know what humans, how we care for each other yeah, because if I I could, if I became reactionary and didn't have that compassion, I'm the same back to them yeah, yeah, and many of the things you've walked through may be able for them, but if you are pushing up against that because they're still stuck in the system and they don't get it, then they don't get any opportunity to grow like you have, or vice versa.
Christie Hodson:That's good. Do you think those who engage in spiritual abuse are aware of how their behavior affects others, or do they genuinely believe they're helping or guiding you? I know we talked a little bit, but that's in the last question, but can you speak just a little bit more about like do they really feel like they're helping or guiding you?
Kristy Hodson:I think the vast majority who are trapped. They really think that they're helping it's. I want to make things smoother for you. This is what I had to go through and I had to learn how to make myself smaller to fit in. So I'm going to help you make yourself smaller to fit in, and these are survival tips.
Kristy Hodson:These are survival tips, whether they're relevant, so they think that they're guiding. They um, whether they're relevant, these, so they think that they're guiding. They think that they're providing the way that oh, maybe you didn't know about this rule, this is what it should be, or, and so I think they really think that they're helping. But there are also those when they're a narcissist, they need power to hold over someone else. They only care about their twisted needs, so they don't care about helping or guiding. They're out for themselves. So there are those, and those are the people who are intentionally harming right? They're not trapped by the system, they're preying on those who are trapped in the system.
Christie Hodson:And that makes it hard. If those aren't, those people aren't necessarily going to change. But if you can get to the people that are trapped and show them not necessarily the exit to the door of the church but the exit to this trappedness of lack of freedom, and I would think that I would have a different reaction of how I choose to interact with people who are preying on those in the system.
Kristy Hodson:And that's their intent and I'm going to react one way to them. Right, and they're going to do what they want to do probably ignore me, whatever, spread false rumors, whatever they want to do to shut me down right. And if I act as assertive, that's probably the wrong word. If I act in the same manner to someone who is thinks that they're helping, as someone who I know is a narcissist and is all about preying on other people and about power, and if I think everyone who comes at me has that view, that is quick, bitter, jaded. I'm not looking for the good in anybody anymore. Nothing they tell me I'm going to take in at all. Maybe there is something good in what they're saying. They're just saying it in a horrible way. But if I say the second you open your mouth, I'm shutting you down because all spiritual abusers are the same. I have no grace for you. It traps me, yes.
Christie Hodson:Yes, so I know. In my conversation with the cult expert, dr Yanyalola, she explained that if you were in a cult and have left, that you have to forgive yourself, because in a cult everyone becomes a perpetrator. It's the only way to survive in that environment. She said that cult members are trained and indoctrinated to do that to each other. This sense of being a perpetrator is really hard for people to accept when they leave that environment. That was powerful to hear Perpetrators I mean because we don't always think about our inactivity or our compliance or our good intentions as being a perpetrator. But sometimes, when you get to know more about what's actually harmful, you do better.
Kristy Hodson:And it can be the idea of maybe I was a perpetrator because I was silent and in that case silence was siding with oppression, or silence was violence. Right, it could be. Wow, I need to forgive myself because I was indoctrinated to think these things. I remember hearing one time this idea of when you see somebody and you have an initial judgmental thought and then you have a second thought and it's very different. The first thought might be your indoctrination and the second thought is what you really think. And I would see this all this time, where I would go to church and I would see somebody and they've got big earrings or a tattoo or whatever. I was like, oh, wow, they can church like that. And then I'm like wait, I am too. There's nothing wrong with that. So it's that I acknowledge my indoctrination is the go-to, that's the knee jerk reaction. But let me stop. Is that really what I think? And it's so hard to unlearn those things.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, because they've been well-practiced.
Kristy Hodson:Right, and then you have to forgive yourself, be like wow, how many people have I felt that way or said that to or done this thing before I learned that's not really what I believe, yeah yeah, because even you, like you say, you're still dealing with bouts of bitterness and anger.
Christie Hodson:If you don't take care of that issue with yourself, those emotions plus you know you not taking care of that part are just going to cause you to do the same, attacking back.
Kristy Hodson:Right, and it'll also be something that is self-destructive to my own spirituality, and then I become I become an abusive person to myself. Yeah. Yeah.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, wow, we're just all screwed. I go vicious cycle. Oh, is it possible to address spiritual abuse without demonizing the abuser? What? And their abuse as well?
Kristy Hodson:Yeah, right, and accountability is about having loyalty to the spirituality of ourselves and others, not to an institution or a specific leader, so it means having consequences. Maybe that position is vacated. Maybe it's having the hard conversations saying, hey, you're gonna need a chaperone wherever you go somewhere, or we're going to do a. Respect this restraining order or whatever it is. It's allowing doubt in critical thinking. So I'm not going to shut you down and we're going to learn how to have conversations instead of how to have monologues in discussion.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, and that is actually harder to do than just conforming right. These are not easy things to do.
Kristy Hodson:It requires a ton of trust, yes, and a ton of vulnerability.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, Patience. So you know, we talked about the cage, the box, the trap. How can acknowledging these forms of capture pave the way for true healing and growth, Like dealing with okay, I was trapped, but now I'm free, Like that concept of of where, where I started, and and getting out and feeling like you are actually healing.
Kristy Hodson:I think part of it is, at least for me. Once I saw the cage, it's really hard to unsee it. You see it everywhere, kind of like, hey, I drive a green Corolla. Everywhere I go I see green Corollas. You're not going to notice it because that's not what's on your mind, that's not what you drive, you don't see that similarity. But once you see this cage you can see how it is. And maybe without judgment, maybe with, I went and saw comedian Taylor Tomlinson. Right.
Kristy Hodson:And she was talking about Noah's Ark and how we make this a beautiful story for our children. Right, you got these fluffy animals is all over, but it's a story. Yes, god saved these people, but he also wiped out everybody else who said no or who didn't, even who didn't say yes, yeah, he also wiped out everybody else who said no or who didn't even, who didn't say yes, yeah, it's not.
Kristy Hodson:They didn't say yes, right, and you know, I'm not going to get into the theology of all of that, sure, but our comfy story for our children is that god flooded creation and we don't have that discussion, no, and so what is that set up for kids, this loving God? So let's do it without giving context, without you know, as they grow up, and keep telling the story and let's learn, and let's dig it out and let's have, let's critically think about this, right? So then, okay, so I'm indoctrinating kids to do this.
Christie Hodson:So I, you know, I think definitely when they're younger like and they're still they can't think abstractly, they are more black and white. You can understand a story like that, but they're constantly growing, their brains are growing, they're getting more and more independent thought and I think that's something that I don't think we acknowledge, and because we don't, we just keep that childhood story going.
Kristy Hodson:We keep it in the box, yes, and we keep it at a certain, we kind of keep it at a certain intellectual level.
Christie Hodson:Yes, that's what I was trying to say and that doesn't allow us to grow at all, it kind of keeps us immature, spiritually mature.
Kristy Hodson:It keeps us in with the system of pat answers. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, because there are difficult things in the Bible. There are. There are awful things that we need to acknowledge. That we need to acknowledge. Yeah, I remember I did a we were doing something where we were reading through the book of Judges when I was a kid, but you weren't supposed to read certain chapters. Yeah, yeah, because how do you explain those to 10 and 12 year olds?
Christie Hodson:Yeah, yeah. And you can't leave them out because they will find them Right, and you will be the one that they'll come to and they say why'd you leave the story out? You know?
Kristy Hodson:Oh well, you're too young to understand.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, that's what we get, right, yeah, yeah, shoot, which doesn't go over well usually, right, yeah, so how can victims of spiritual abuse navigate their healing journey while acknowledging the humanity of their abusers?
Kristy Hodson:Therapy, therapy, support groups. More and more we're seeing support groups and therapy that are special, are specially crafted for people who are undergoing spiritual abuse. Spiritual direction that's something that I do and it helps me evaluate. What do I believe, why do I believe it? How is my spiritual walk going? What do I need to do to fill myself? Acknowledging the humanity of the abuser does not mean ignoring or bypassing the abuse. Often we think it's one or the other. Oh, you're a human, you made a mistake. Whoopsie, right, it's not that. There's still a need for accountability and we might not get it from the abuser. They may never apologize, they may never admit to it. They may never apologize, they may never admit to it, they may never change. And we may have to then distance ourselves. And that's the accountability too. Because of what you did to me, I can no longer be in your presence. Yeah, that is the accountability, right, and that's okay. And even if we get to the place of forgiveness I keep going back to this Forgiveness does not require restoration of relationship.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, yeah, and that's also that often plays into that tendency for us to feel like we have to be loyal to something, have to be loyal to a church, have to be loyal to a person because they were a fellow church member. But if they are toxic, if they have harmed, that's yeah, no.
Kristy Hodson:Well, I think you do little kids right. Little kid smacks another little kid. Yeah, say you're sorry and give each other a hug, yeah, yeah. As if that was enough, that skips so many steps too, and I think, think again, this generation is more of hey, it's okay if we're estranged yeah, yeah I need to make these boundaries for myself and my own healing and my existence, and that's okay. Yeah, it may make you uncomfortable because you don't get to have the power you had, but it's not about you. Yes, yes.
Kristy Hodson:It's not really, it's all about me.
Christie Hodson:I know I have someone that I met at a conference and they are a pastor themselves and they have started a nonprofit for educating churches to become trauma informed and I just think that's so powerful. I hope that that continues to go well. I'm hoping to have her actually talk on this podcast also.
Kristy Hodson:Right, because much of the trauma that we experience, even if it's not in church, it's going to show up there. It's going to go with you wherever you're at.
Christie Hodson:Right, right. And sometimes, when we least expect it, it shows up. And one of her phrases is that church body keeps score. Like you know, not only do our body keep score, but you know it will show up at church. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it will show up at the church. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. How can communities create safe spaces to address spiritual abuse without demonizing or excusing the perpetrators? How might this idea that perpetrators are also trapped be misused to justify or minimize harmful behavior, and how can we guard against that?
Kristy Hodson:No, I think it's going back to get what you said with your friend that you met get informed. Yeah, what does trauma look like? What does it look like to be trauma informed? What does it look like to show up for other people? What does it look to be humble enough to say what is my part? Right. You know.
Christie Hodson:Once you know, know better, you can do better. Education is so powerful, right?
Kristy Hodson:yeah, yeah learning and sometimes that's how we do our healing by studying spiritual abuse or studying this or studying that, so that we can be better versions of ourselves. Yeah, and learn how to bravely show up. Yeah. Yeah.
Christie Hodson:As we wrap up, can you share how you found the freedom to step away from conforming to others' ways of thinking, be yourself while also having the courage to not be defined by rebellion?
Kristy Hodson:having the courage to not be defined by rebellion. I think part of it is just very much my hugely supportive family and friend group who have loved me for who I am not in spite of who I am, because in spite of means there's something wrong but love me for who I am, who support me, who tell me that my voice is important, who encourage me to stand up for others, and who who don't let me wear that, that label of rebel who are like hey, yeah, no, this is not who you are.
Kristy Hodson:You're not a rebel, You are Kristy someone who cares.
Kristy Hodson:Yeah yeah and I love that about you. Yeah, how can I encourage you and empower you? Yeah, you know. If that means you know you're gonna spend a week on my couch because you're trying to figure out how to pay for your new apartment, because now you lost your job or you can't work in that system anymore, then that's what it is. Yeah, right, um, but it's to me it's the outside support, people who saw me as me, um, often again I said you know, it's people outside my faith tradition who are giving me support, people who have no faith tradition of their own supporting me. That's what has helped me.
Christie Hodson:So why do you think sometimes the outside gets what the inside maybe doesn't even see and is doing?
Kristy Hodson:Because the outside doesn't have the box. They may have a different box, but it's not the same box that someone else is trying to get me to fit in. They don't need me to amputate a part of myself to fit anything because there's nothing to fit. So for them the box doesn't exist. But as long as you focus on the box and not the person, the person's never going to fit yeah, yeah, unless you cut off that toe.
Christie Hodson:Yeah, you mentioned that you're. You know, I know people have words for the year and you mentioned that your word for 2025 was ". Would you be open to sharing that word in the context of all that we've talked about today?
Kristy Hodson:So, for me, I want to remember who I am. I think that, you know, all the trauma that we go through in our lives changes us in some way or another. It might change our thought patterns, it may take away our memories, and so I'm thinking back and trying to remember who I am. Who was I, you know, in my thirties? What part of that did I like about me? Who was I in my twenties? Who was I as a kid? The pieces that I remember, because I don't have a lot of memories from when I was a child. What do I remember that brought me joy? What did I remember that resonates with me? Where did I feel most safe? Where did I feel most creative? What does creativity look like? These things that I used to love that feel like a lifetime ago? What happens if I focus my energy there, wow, and remember who I was before? Trauma gave me a detour.
Christie Hodson:Wow, that's powerful, that's powerful.
Kristy Hodson:How has that made the difference? It's allowed me to not be judgmental about what I do or don't do. It's allowed me the grace of experimentation. So I don't have to be good at something right away, which is huge for me. If I'm not good at it, then why do it? Yeah, yeah, you know I'm one of those, those perfectionists. You know I need to be automatically good at something, otherwise it's not worth it. Um, so, yeah, do that it's. Hey, let me be curious about learning about this thing. If that's, is that something that I want? Is that something that connects with me? Maybe, maybe not. What happens if I like? Oh, let me reframe. I like doing collage, michael, but that's not art, yes, it is. That's creativity. So that's kind of it. Some of it is.
Kristy Hodson:Hey, mom, dad, what was it like when I was five years old? Tell me a story. What, what stuck out to you? That was positive, not the negative parts. Yes, you know, don't tell me I was whiny, but you know, tell me, and then that could be something to listen to. For, like, what conditioning were you told? Oh, I was too sensitive as a kid, but was I yeah, was I adequately sensitive to the situation that was going on and you just didn't understand because of your own family trauma. So maybe remembering and relearning past experiences, too, through other people's eyes, and reflecting now, knowing as much as I know, yeah, because sometimes when you relive those in your mind, you see other things that you didn't see back then.
Christie Hodson:Um, so sometimes it's great to reprocess those. Yeah, wow, what do you believe has helped you to break free from the expectation of others, find a sense of belonging, speak out against spiritual abuse and rediscover a renewed, authentic spirituality for yourself?
Kristy Hodson:Again, this is something that I'm constantly working on. I think the expectations of others is a huge one for me, because there is that people pleaser. I want people to like me. I'm still learning that I don't need to prove my worth or my value, whether it be for my job or a friendship or whatever and some of that is, you know, getting anxious, walking into a room with people I don't know because I don't know what their expectations are for me. So that's still something I struggle with for a who already know who I am and I already belong with. So I'm constantly in touch with my college friends, you, the family that understands me.
Kristy Hodson:And again, when I get the validations of me as a chaplain doing my job, and maybe someone like paid a compliment to my bosses or they're like oh wow, this, you know, I did a blessing of the hands recently. That ceremony was really beautiful, really meaningful, that I'm like, yeah, so me just showing up as me is making a difference, yeah, so hearing that validation from someone yeah, I still need outside validation makes a difference, yeah, and makes it easier to keep doing it that way and keep trusting myself. I think for speaking out against abuse, there was something raised in me. I use my voice, I speak out, I call it out. I'm getting braver and braver with it Again, because the church has no power over me. They could not like anything I'm saying right now, but they don't hold my livelihood but even you're like your friends.
Christie Hodson:You know you have this group of friends that that allows you to belong. You don't agree with all of them on everything no I'm guessing, because I mean iron sharpens, iron Friends, you know, really help us grow and stuff, and I'm imagining that many of them are so they can call out to hey, you're not being your authentic self here, yeah. Wow, where did you go? Yeah, that's incredible to have friends like that.
Kristy Hodson:And doing it in a nice way. Some of my friends we like to use the.
Kristy Hodson:I wonder if so I wonder where this is coming from or I wonder what it would look like if you did this. So not quite advice, but again, it's bringing that curiosity into it and seeing other people speak out and be curious, and I mean, your podcast has been amazing. And even just sharing it, like I share it on my instagram or whatever that's speaking out, it doesn't have to be a huge thing. Yeah, sometimes it is, and sometimes I do get the opportunity to call something out from the pulpit every once in a while. Um, but it's something that is near and dear to my heart. Yeah, and so that makes it easier. Yeah, especially where it's not that is near and dear to my heart. Yeah, and so that makes it easier yeah.
Kristy Hodson:Especially where it's not. I don't have to be quiet in order to get a paycheck Right.
Christie Hodson:Right. It's amazing the doors that can open for you, for other people's hearts, for for them to share something to you, who they may not even know you that well, but you've given them a space to to be to. You've given them a space to to be, to share that and to to walk through that.
Kristy Hodson:And I think that helps renew and empower my authentic spirituality by letting you be authentic in yours and seeing that, yeah, and like wow, Wow.
Christie Hodson:Wow. Well, what's one piece of advice that, uh, out of all we've talked about today, that you would have loved to have heard, when you were younger, told to you by yourself, by your later self trust?
Kristy Hodson:yourself. Your voice matters, whether they hear it or not.
Christie Hodson:So like, don't minimize yourself, don't silence yourself what about the advice that your grandfather gave you know to to know what your value system is, until?
Kristy Hodson:yeah, so knowing my value system, even when I didn't consciously know it yeah, yeah be driven by that. So that's part of trusting yourself. I trust the value system that is in me to help guide me whether that's might need extra questions and that, but trust yourself, because if something feels off, it's probably off, and so what would it be like if you shared? This is off.
Christie Hodson:Are you talking about like intuition?
Kristy Hodson:Yeah, I guess some people call it intuition trusting your gut, even if it's you know. Hey look, this person is not treating me the way that I want to be treated. I'm 10 years old. I can trust an adult and maybe they don't believe you, right, but keep trying, yeah. Yeah, tell some, you know it's something, talk about it. Do not yourself, be silenced. You don't need to suffer alone yeah, wow, that's, that's powerful.
Christie Hodson:Hey, I really want to thank you for being so honest and open today. You've shown how universal our feelings are, even when our experiences differ, and you reminded me that suppressing emotions only delays healing and that holding on to our spirituality despite outside control is essential. I have one last question Can you directly speak to that person out there that is perhaps really resonating with your personal experience, who wants an authentic faith but has been so wounded or marginalized by their church experience? What encouragement could you share with them that might give them a sense of hope and true belonging?
Kristy Hodson:It's not only you. You are not the only person this is happening to. There are other people out there who are hurting just like you. See, if you can find each other, oh that's beautiful, yeah, thank you.
Christie Hodson:Thank you so much and thank you for being willing to share your story. I mean, that's not easy. You're placing your vulnerability out here. You have beautifully captured the challenges holding onto your identity, your autonomy, your critical thinking and spirituality in a highly controlled religious environment, and spirituality in a highly controlled religious environment. While I'm sorry for the emotional toll, I am inspired by the wisdom that has kept you free and true to yourself in your journey toward authentic faith. I read a quote that often gets attributed to Mother Teresa. I've seen it. It's been attributed to other people, but one of the people that was attributed to was Mother Teresa and since it's, a lot of people know who that is. Um. But the quote goes um like this "God does not ask for your silence in exchange for belonging. True faith gives you a voice, not a muzzle.
Kristy Hodson:Amen.
Christie Hodson:That was that was powerful to me and what really resonated for me here is that you trusted your voice, even though it was very difficult when you're younger, and you've grown that voice and you've not allowed yourself to be muzzled, and I hope that's an inspiration to other people. So thank you for giving voice to a path many have traveled and I hope your experience resonates with somebody today. This has been Christie Hodson, with the original Christie Hodson. Thank you for listening to this episode of Soul Bruises Podcast and, as always, remember how important it is to
Kristy Hodson:Be Human,
Christie Hodson:Be Kind,
Kristy Hodson:Be Both.
