S2E1: Updates- We're back!

This episodes topic mostly cover what we’ve been up to since the last seasons releases. We experienced a global pandemic which changed many things in our day to day life. Our children are older and the family has grown together through the natural changes of life as we navigated the Covid era. This episode covers updates with the transitions of life and how Mshkogaabwid overcame a period of time where speaking was too painful, and the way she found her way back to trying to only speaking Anishinaabemowin in the home as well as other success and challenges that were embraced. We hope you enjoy the updates.

#LandBack #EveryChildMatters #LanguageBack 

linktr.ee/enweying.oursound

Many people have reached out to ask where they can donate or support revitalization efforts. This link leads to our Link Tree which has a Patreon as well as "Buy me a Coffee" where you can donate to our families cause and initiatives we do to support learning in the home and across our communities. Miigwech

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:29

This is a great thing. It's a political mess intended for those raising or helping to raise children in an indigenous language.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

I think it's a bit of a heavy woman, but nonetheless an important one to share.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Meaning with I wanted to do season two is to kind of prove that we can sound great.

SPEAKER_05 0:57

The curtain is supposed to stay closed. So should we reintroduce ourselves?

SPEAKER_02 1:11

I think so.

SPEAKER_05 1:13

Alright, Pojo.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

I mean, sorry, I was just thinking. Um, for people who maybe this is the first time that they're listening, and then maybe next time they'll head back to season one, episode one. But uh yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_05 1:32

Yeah, Pojo is Aogiji Gogano and Digo, to Shikanzi Ping and doing Chiba Shiken Dodim. Um so my name is Aogiji Goganu. Um from Chipuas of the Thames First Nation. I am a learner of the language and currently teaching at my communities elementary school, Nishna Bemwen, Kita.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

How?

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Bojou Mashgogawit Queen, sir. Um Nishinaabe Wanakazia uh Ameline, Shogunashi, the Nosean, uh Makwa and Dodam, Gaganashkodiak, the Bandagos, Nose, Enjabot, Gaganashkodayak, Shog uh Nishnaabe Monk, Long Plain Manitoba, um Ashina Kardak, Shogunashi Monk, Ashkan Z being in Dinda, Asia Kindanis, being up Asia Kwis. So my English name is Emiline, um my Nishinaabe name is Mush Gogabwit Kwe. Um I was born east, but my uh dad is uh from Long Plain, Manitoba. We have two kids. Um our daughter and our son, five and three, and our dog was on Agamason. Um currently I am also teaching at two high schools. Um I'll talk about that later on. But yeah, really slow introduction for me to think about to introduce myself, but probably fix that when we edit it. Anyways, yeah, so that's me.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Alright.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

It's a little bit different because we're not in the same room, so I can't really feed off of your energy face to face, but so this is our first podcast back from along hiatus.

SPEAKER_05 4:12

And yeah, we're just gonna talk about kind of an update on where we are and maybe talk about um like where we are in our lives and language-wise, and also um what we're planning to do a little bit with the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Yeah, I think a lot of things have changed since we last did this podcast. Um so I just kind of like wanted to kind of update things that have changed, things that have evolved, um, where we're at now. And if for whatever reason that we don't do a season three, um, I just feel a little bit better about how I left things or how we left things. Um, hopefully we have just like a better quality of like being able to hear us properly. Um, maybe get some support with how to like edit, and then also maybe have some guest speakers on this time around. That was something that we wanted to do. And then the pandemic just got super challenging and then we never did, and now we're kind of like into semi-normal uh routines again, so there's just more space for I think making those things happen. Yeah, so I think in the last time we like the last episode that we did, um there was a lot going on in our life, or my life at least. I was taking uh Nishnaabewan ECE course. We were still like in lockdown from home. We hadn't had child care yet for either child. Monty, you were still working online. We hadn't like been able to visit, we had been isolated for so long that I had like very little input from speakers other than like being online on Zoom class, which was which was tough, and then also um like recordings online or like videos aren't just aren't the same as being in person. Um you can't laugh with somebody, you can't joke with somebody, you're not like the pressure isn't on to make sure that like you respond within a certain amount of time. So like my fuel and motivation was just like dwindling really like really quickly, and I was just feeling up against like such a tough mountain. And yeah, so near the end there I had like done a interview with CBC for whatever reason, Monty, you weren't on it, but um yeah, I think that was kind of where we left off, and right around that time we were having trouble getting Zada to speak Nishnabewin, and I was kind of losing my stamina, and so I think that was another reason why I decided like not to continue or to take a break with the podcast because I was just like didn't have enough energy to continue for I just need to take a pause, so that's kind of where we left off. Is there anything you wanted to like?

SPEAKER_05 7:35

I just I think I felt like at that time we had uh the content that we wanted to get out. We said what we had to say, and a lot of people had positive response to it and tell us how much how much they learned from it and how much it inspires them, and I think for me I just had you know said what I what I wanted to say and there wasn't really a lot more to share at that point. It was just kind of kind of repeating myself on a few podcasts, but um with kids, you know, trying to speak to them only in the language, you know, and as they're growing older, you know, there's gonna be constant stories and we didn't get to um other people, interviewing other people, which which I'm really looking forward to is interviewing having other guests on the podcast that who are friends that um speak to their children in the language and you know, sharing their story and then also maybe some other people that we don't know that speak other languages other than an Snaabim one.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

Hmm. Interested to hear who you're thinking of in that department. But yeah, I'm open to almost everything. Um that's a good point. Yeah, we we did we did get a lot of content out there that we wanted to get out there. Uh I was surprised by when I see people now, they are like, oh, I listen to your podcast. And I'm like, oh my god. Like was not expect like just like random people. Um like they're like, oh I like people that I know but like like haven't talked to in a while, or I meet for the first time, and I'm like, great, like I'm happy that I go out there, but I didn't expect like so many people to listen. And then yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:59

Or people will say that we're famous, or like stop. A lot of people know us, and I'm like, I don't feel that.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

No, I'm like it is nice to be to feel heard or feel seen in a sense, so like people saying, Oh, like it really maybe like res famous, maybe, or semi-res famous.

SPEAKER_05 10:20

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

I wouldn't know.

unknown 10:22

Just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Yeah, and then like our good friends came out with a podcast and some of their topics and like they are just so so much more well-versed than me. But that was just really awesome to hear and like has helped me so much. Um, I'm like them sharing their experiences and their like their kind of worldviews is like kind of made me look at the way that we do this um in a different lens because of because I'm like super tough on myself and you get kind of pulled into that because you're part of this podcast too, so I'm just very hard on myself on the last time we did this, so just seeing how much their podcast helps me and like just really admiring some of the things that they have done and said, um what is Jess and Miskwan quit. Yeah, so the podcast is called The Language Podcast, and yeah, kind of given me uh energy to kind of share my experiences again or for us to start up again and then maybe connect because I think that would be fun. Um and some really good we could have some really good chats. So, anyways, yeah, it was that was just really nice for me to hear from a couple of people and I was like, okay, so it wasn't like I know it wasn't a waste of time, but sometimes I'm like was I I start doubting myself and stuff. Anyways, yeah, so we're both teaching at the moment. Do you want to kind of talk about what you're doing?

SPEAKER_05 12:22

Um teaching at my elementary school for the first time, teaching children for the first time, learning a lot. I've been teaching adults for a while. Um, I don't want to share how long, but I'll say at least ten years. Um in different capacities. Um but yeah, so at our school and we have a couple other language teachers there, so it's not you know, I'm not I don't have the full pressure on me to bring back the language for the whole school, but they're pretty open to the administration's pretty open to having language there and kind of supporting us as much as they can, so I'm comfortable in that sense, and then just kind of figuring out how kids learn and how different they are from adults because adults, you know, we're always like write this down for me, or how do you write that? You know, we're all literacy-based when we learn language and um you know with children and the school, you know, I'm learning, you know, with the English medium school and trying to incorporate an Ishnabam when, you know, trying to motivate somebody to speak that or at least like the language, I guess. Um you know, I'm learning about how to do that and the best way to go about those things. So yeah, where are you?

SPEAKER_02 14:22

I'm teaching high school, like I said, teaching two high schools. Um originally I said no. I got asked a couple times, and I was like, no, I really don't know enough to be teaching. I don't have my OCT um uh and have never really taught anybody before. I'm still I think pretty fresh into my learning journey. So when I found out that uh they would probably get rid of the program or the class altogether, and I only had you know a couple days to say yes before the position started, I said, okay, like if that's the case, then yeah, I would like to to start because I can share what I have at least, and then they can take what I have, and then if they want to continue on with a better speaker or a better teacher, at least they have like a a little bit of what I have, um, and that they can start even like they can start at a point that's uh not like first exposure for a lot of them. I mean some of them have had teachers before in elementary, and some of them haven't. And for me, the first time I really heard Nishnab Aminwin was when I was in my 20s, 23, when I went to Georgian. So I um I said, okay, it's been for the most part really awesome. Um I've been working with children, I think, the majority of my life, so to work with teenagers, I was just like really expecting not to like it at all. And then turns out like I don't mind it. They're really fun. They're funny. I've had like zero issues with anybody being rude to me or anything like that, so that's been wonderful. I mean, working in an institution is not fun when you're trying to teach language, but um working again. I've been off work for a while, just being with all the timing of being pregnant, of contracts ending, and then the pandemic, being a stay-at-home mom. Um, this is kind of the first time I've gone back to work in a while, so that's just really nice. Um, the kids, I think at that point Zade was starting to speak a little bit more Engl like when we finished, when we left off, Zade was starting to speak more English than Shinaabin went at home. Sasveage was just a baby, he wasn't talking yet. So I was starting to get frustrated, right? Do you mind if we start talking about yeah, that um sure. Are you with me?

unknown 17:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Okay. We were an entire Nishnabemwen household until about halfway through the pandemic when I started doing Zoom classes online and then I had a really hard time code switching. Um going back and forth between speaking English to someone online and then switching into Nishnabemwin when Zada would come in, or if I would come downstairs, I have noticed that that is like probably the hardest and most challenging thing for me as someone who's further behind in their learning journey. Um, raising children. You're a little bit further along. But for me it's really hard to go back and forth. So what began happening was I would start I would feel um uncomfortable speaking English into Zoom. I would want to speak Nishnaabinwin, but not everyone could understand me. So, and then when I would come downstairs, I'd be so used to speaking in English that I would forget that I'm speaking in English. Um, and then it would be really hard. It is a really slippery, slippery slope. And the code switching really kind of got in my way on top of everything else. So at one point I was just like, okay, that's it. I don't know, you were there to witness it, but I think it would be real it'd just be really good for me to just come clean about the whole like one day in my brain, it felt like my brain just cracked in half, and I was just so like frustrated and fed up with like no input and tired of code switching, frustrated, isolated, mental health going down the drain, things were really getting kind of dark for me, and I felt like my brain just cracked in half one day, and I was like, I can't do this anymore. Like, I give up, and I don't want to get emotional, but you know that that was a really emotional time for me, and it took me a long time to kind of get out of there, right? Like, I like was like, why are we doing this anymore? What is the point? Yeah, I don't even want to speak it.

SPEAKER_05 19:44

Yeah, I think um just being in lockdown, you know, it miss messes with your can or it could mess with your mind, and a lot of people, you know, dealt with it in different ways, and then on top of trying to learn a language, um, you know, it can be can be hard with a young family inside all day every day and are just together and together all day every day and um so there were there were a lot of times when the kids went to your mother's place and and she speaks English and that's okay, but then that that's where they got a lot of English input and then began speaking more. Um because it's different when it's your first language and you're you're able to connect a different in a different way in in or even express the same thing in different ways because you because it's your first language and um and so when they're around two or three English speakers a lot of the time, you know, they're gonna pick up that pretty quickly, and then to come back home to be around two learners who um can't express everything in that language, um then it's harder to pick up or harder to speak, I guess, or to hear those, you know, different expressions. And so yeah, there were I mean there were multiple things that kind of led you to, you know, say you didn't want to speak in the language anymore.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Yeah, it took a long time uh for me to You stay strong as per usual um speaking the language. I for my own safety and the safety of our children and you started to speak English. So that was really, really, really, really, really it's still really hard for me to talk about because I had so much guilt because I had told the public, I had told people outside of our home that we were solely in an immersion household, and then I felt like I was living this huge lie because I gave up. And it was a really good lesson for me too, because language learning you have to have a lot of privilege to learn and to revitalize your language. And sometimes I was in the mindset of like, just try harder, just try harder, just try harder. And it just really allowed me to like sit back from a different angle and a different lens and to like look at people who like we're all just trying to keep a roof overheads and food on the table, live happy, live like survivable lives, like to get through each day, and even though I'm on my learning journey, it helped me really empathize with those that may just be starting off and have children who are already in their teens, who are not toddlers, who are older, and how difficult it must be to sit from there and to learn, or to not have a two-parent household, or um to be dealing with other things. So I just I'm not saying that I know what those things feel like, but I just was like I'm sitting in a different lens and realizing like how privileged I was to start my learning journey before we had kids, even though I was still very much a beginner, because I went right like back to English and I didn't know how I was gonna like it was like the the bus didn't stop going, like the train didn't stop, but I got off. And every day that I was sitting on the side of the railway, that train just kept going. And I not only had to find the energy to jump back on the train, but also to catch up. I kind of had to catch up. It was like you know what it was like? It was like when I did that mommy boot camp, like four months after I had Zodai, and we had to run our strollers around the track. We had gone around five times already, and then the the teacher, the coach, the leader, whatever, she was like, Alright, person in the back, you gotta run up all the way to the front and start running from the front. And I'm like, I'm done. I can't like I've done five laps with the stroller with the kid in it with these moms who are like super fit and jacked, and I had to like cat not only like keep the pace, but also like run past a line of 10 women who are running faster than me and get to the front, and I'm like, I'm already I've already like lost steam, and now I gotta go even faster because it's not stopping. Anyways, I didn't go back to that class. Um, because I was just yeah. I'll share so it.

SPEAKER_05 26:10

I mean, we can cut this out too, but I'll share that during that time too, like you didn't want anything to do with language at all. Like in terms of any kind of class online, like it would somehow trigger you and you would be in a bad mood. Any kind of talking about language at all. Um you know, talking about learning, talking about teaching. You know, you didn't you didn't want to talk about it. And yeah, that's where, you know. That's kind of where things had gone through. And so I had, you know, I it took me a while to kind of realize that, and so then I just kind of stopped. Like, well, before that we we hadn't uh spoken to each other in the language. Um or very little we did before that. Um and then when I realized that part two, you know, I would just kind of avoid anything language related like topics or classes or anything. Um yeah, and so we also mean you kind of just would just speak in English as well.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

I'm glad that you brought that up. I don't know how comfortable I am talking about the stuff with the elders, but that for sure I think was important because I forgot I forget a lot of what happened and I just think it's really important to talk about because where I am now is a lot different than where I was then, and I'm sure that there's people out there who feel the same. Um and I just like want to normalize that for people so we can all kind of get back on track at some point or if this can help because I really thought that I was done. Like done done speaking the language, like I forgot about that, that yeah, I didn't I couldn't hear I couldn't hear anybody speak it, I didn't want you to put it on for the kids. I didn't if there was a class going on, I didn't want to be a part of it. Someone invited us to do something online, I didn't want to talk to them, I didn't want to talk about them. Like I was like just completely traumatized with the language, like I said, when my brain cracked in half, I was like really done. And I fell so hard in love with the language when I heard it for the first time to have such a what's that word?

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Catatonic response from it.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Um that was just heartbreaking in itself because I didn't want to feel that way. I didn't want to feel that way towards the language. Like it was everything to me, and then all of a sudden I didn't I wanted nothing to do with it. And that wasn't like I don't know how to explain it other than like it just it broke my heart altogether and I didn't know how I was gonna like raise these kids because I couldn't even tell anybody that like that's how I felt because I was too ashamed to feel that way because like we all love our language, right? So how could I just start resenting it and not loving it anymore? So I just feel like I couldn't even reach out to anybody or tell anybody because you know, how would anybody be able to empathize with how I felt about it, you know? So I'm thankful that you brought that up because I've like blocked out so much of it, and um it's taken a long time to get to where I am now, where I can like honestly. This first episode, but I think I can honestly say that like like my passion is back and I'm back on board and like I made it somehow.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Just really proud of myself for being able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

So, anyways, you go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 32:05

Yeah, I think it's common. Well, I don't know about common, but for indigenous language learners to go through, you know, those ups and downs. And you know, there's some people that that do kind of walk away, you know, they uh learn to a certain point and then they feel like they can't go any higher or don't or can't find the reason why to keep going. Um I know a few people that have kind of just been frustrated with for various reasons and just kind of walk away from learning. Um yeah, I think we all go through those ups and downs of like, you know, why am I doing this? You know, um, is it worth it? You know, all those emotions to varying degrees. Um, I've I've gone through those too. Um maybe because I don't know, maybe it's because I'm at a different level, but you know, I've always just maintained speaking to the kids as best as I could. Um haven't really used English with them. And Zara goes to the school that I work at, so um, she went there last year. Um so she's surrounded by English, you know, everywhere, and we have the other thing is we have kind of a big family, like um like we have my immediate family, which is kind of small-ish, I guess, but then you know, I have a lot of cousins. Um you have your dad, um, and then your dad and your brother, and then your mom, um, your stepdad. Um so what like um the way I feel about Zade, so Zade right now, she her first response is English. Um if we prompt her to speak in the language, you know, she will, or if we remind her, or sometimes we'll tell her, you know, to answer us or ask us in the language and she'll say, I don't know, but she actually does know. Um so sometimes I feel kind of bad for that. Like, you know, she's because we have friends who or we know other people whose kids are speaking are their first response, or they can respond in the Nishna Bem one. So you know there's always that comparison, and so I feel bad in that sense. Um but I also know that everybody's journey is different, everybody's family is different, um, circumstances are different. Um so her because our families all speak English, you know, none none of them speak. Um either of our side, you know, speaks anishinaabe. Um but they have really strong you know relationships with them and um that's one thing that you know I'm I'm happy about or glad that um you know there's multiple people that she feels comfortable around and has a strong relationship with.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Um and that visit a lot, like we are very close because I'm an only child, so I'm kind of everybody's baby. I don't want to say it like that, but like as a as a kid, like I spent a lot of time with everyone and a lot of time and a lot of really good quality time, so they all really want that with my kids, and then you have a big family, so I really want them to like both of our kids to really get to know their cousins because that's something I really missed when I moved away was like not being able to just play with all my cousins and run around and to normalize that too, so and then also we only see Zodai for like two hours a day. Like you see her more because you sit in the car with her, right? It's like half an hour, 15 minutes when we get up, and then you're in the car with her, and I don't see her, and then she comes home, and we have like two hours and a half if that for its bedtime and to eat. So downtime to play, down like getting food ready, so I'm not like sitting there doing anything too, like it's just the regular mealtime stuff and bedtime stuff. Um you know what, like she I can't gauge her sometimes on what she does know and what she doesn't know because that's what that's the thing. She'll say that she doesn't know, and then I'll like if I was to ask her something in the sh in in English, if I say, tell me how to say this, she'll go, I don't know. So let me so here's an example. So I tried a little experiment a couple months ago. I was like, How do you say or I'd say Anisha Jacidian toothbrush nishnabe monk? How do you say toothbrush in nishnabe win? And she go, I don't know. And I'm like, Yeah, you do. And she's like, Gain Kendazine. That's her always her. Like, I gotta start teaching her munji dick, but she's like, I don't know, right? And I'm like, no, you do. And so I go, Okay. And she'll grab her toothbrush, and I'll go, Wagonish ediming gaziaba de gun. And she's like, Toothbrush. I'm like, Shkayah, like you know what this means. I just picked it up, I showed it to you, you you know what it is. I asked you in the language, not not even gonna pick it up, but if I just say like gziabba de gun, like she'll grab it and I'll say, Okay, what do you should edit gaziaba the gun? Then she'll say toothbrush, and I'm like, see, like you do know it. It's just like it's like she's not able to.

SPEAKER_05 39:17

Yeah, it's like the comprehension is there, but not the output.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Yeah. But this is kind of like something I want to talk about near the end of the podcast or at a another at another time. But um tonight of all nights, like I had already decided before I took the kids upstairs. Um, before we took the kids upstairs to to bed that we were gonna do the podcast, I just had this like I have energy today. I kind of feel like I have some English words today, like learning Nishinaabe when teaching Nishinaabe when I have like such a hard time finding English words that I want to use. I'm not saying, oh, I speak such great Nishina Bemwen that I don't even know English anymore. I'm just when you're trying to access both parts, sometimes you can't access either. Um, so I just knew that today I was like, let's do the podcast, and you were like, Yeah, okay, whatever. Like I'm like, we gotta start at some point because like I'm starting to have the motivation and I have a lot of things that I want to talk about again. And then something really incredible happened this evening with both children, so it was just kind of I think it must be this Gemini full moon that's happening right now in Sagittarius season.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Yeah. Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

But um Yeah, that's it. It's the full moment. But it was just really I was also bawling like an hour ago, well, right before I came down, and we start like before we were gonna start the podcast. So it was just like a clear sign to me that yeah, let's let's really do this because I'm on a high right now from what just happened. But um, before I get there, I just kind of wanted to talk about Sasoyage as well. He was a pandemic baby. He was three months old when the pandemic started. He only had you and me, me who is in like very far from fluency, you who, as everyone listening knows, are kind of quiet.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

And yeah, I'm not in disagreeing about the words that you use.

SPEAKER_05 41:50

Like um because there's all these English sayings, and your your mom was a teacher and is a teacher. So she has all these things in her back pocket of English. And I always try and like think of like things to say like that could be because they help their English vocabulary and learning. So like the only one I can think of is like your mum will say, What goes up must come and Zade will finish down. She all she has all these little rhymes and stuff, like your mom does. And I guess everyone does, but you know, have these these English rhymes that help with English learning and vocabulary, and I can't really match that in the language. And there was um at the school, you know, I have to work with other teachers with with little kids and and the teachers are just kind of saying these words that the kids probably don't know, but they're getting access to it. Um so like a teacher might say to uh JKSK child, like, oh look at this, it's perpendicular. And you know, for me to try and like match that, you know, like the amount of vocabulary in English, and like, okay, how would I say perpendicular? Like you know what I mean, like um and even me just speaking in English, you know, I don't I'm learning more as I go, you know, how to you know, just keep talking, you know.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

Yeah, that wasn't like a whatchama call it, um a diss or however you want to say that on you. I was just making a a truthful point about the dynamic in our household that I've really gotten learned a lot of patience because I was someone who well if you meet my family, like we never shut up, so like to meeting you and you know you've taught me a lot about being intentional with words or slowing down. So definitely not a diss, and I don't that was never like it like, yes, sometimes I'm like you have the ability to speak, you should be speaking more, but I don't expect you to be able to speak like a fluent speaker would speak because that's their first language, but my point is is that it's not like you're a chatterbox, you know, and I can't get you to be quiet. Um, and then me who like talks um basically in command form, um, like I used to say like a baby, but I guess like that's not well received either, so I'm just like I don't I just know that I don't speak in like I make a lot of grammar mistakes still. I'm still getting my VTIs and VTA's down pat, which should have happened a long time ago, but it's finally like I'm finally moving with it, and that's a big step for me. Um most of the words that you use when you're a parent are commands, which at the moment I'm like, what are those called again? Um what are those called again, Monty? I keep it's not pejorative, that's different, right? Um what's command form?

SPEAKER_05 45:57

Um not sure.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

Yes, you do, but anyways. So my point is is like they're not getting uh nearly as much access and exposure from us, and that was the other thing that we didn't really talk about was that what was happening a lot during the pandemic when things were getting really messy, um, was that I needed a lot of support from you because I wasn't I didn't have a support system. I didn't have like I have a support system, but I didn't have the support system that I needed. And what would happen would be I would be in distress and we would have these YouTube playlists that we would play for the kids, and I would be in some sort of a crisis, and you would be helping me, and then the playlist would stop or something would change and the kids would get upset and I would get re-triggered and I would get upset again, and it was like these cycles that would just go over and over and get worse and worse. And so what we ended up doing was throwing on Disney or throwing on um wiggles or something that we knew would keep their attention so that they were safe, regulated, happy, and away from me, who was not safe, happy, regulated. I mean, not safe, but basically like not regulated and not having a good time, and I really needed like co-regulation and support from you as my husband, and so that was also something that I found was like the straw that broke the camel's back, was that now they were used to all of this regular TV that is like really awesome, and there's tons of graphics, and the voices match, and there's fluent English, and the animation is amazing, and there's so much variety, and it's just like regular mainstream TV, and even if we put it on a different language, what would happen is like they would tune out within like nine or twelve minutes, and I was like, I need them to be okay and safe and occupied so I can get through my whatever, and so they would be listening, uh, or so we would turn it on to English just so that I could get back to parenting in a good way, um, because I was like just needing so much support, so I'm not ashamed to talk about that. Like, I am pro let's talk about mental health and the realities of mental health because it doesn't do any good to just like pretend and hide it or whatever. Like I own it. I know you might not I don't know how you feel about me sharing my own experiences, but like I'm totally fine talking about it to a degree, and so that was also I think something that really disrupted our regul like our flow and our routine in the house was because the kids were now like expecting the same degree of media and which isn't out there for an Ishnaubay one, like we're getting there, but it's definitely not like if you turned on some people have dubbed over some cartoons, but there's not the amount that there is for other languages. Yeah, so that really hurt us because now they didn't want to watch YouTube videos and they didn't want to listen to speakers speak, and then Zodia was like, I don't know what they're saying, like I don't this is boring, I want to watch something else, and I would be like triggered by that because I'm like, it's not boring, that's our language, like trying to get them to like and their kids, right? So I'm like, that was that's been tough because it's taken away a big chunk of input that would would have been them listening to Michael and when and like we can talk this about this again in another episode again, but like I just realized at one point, like if I'm going to maintain any kind of stable mental health, like uh even just a little bit, that I need some downtime, and I need time where I'm not. I tried what happened in the pandemic was I spent every waking minute studying and trying to get things down pat and memorizing. I was not giving myself any space, I was not sleeping because I was breastfeeding, I was not sleeping because we had a two-year-old and a three-month-old. I you weren't sleeping, I wasn't spending any downtime doing things that I loved. Uh I was still healing from a C-section that didn't heal for almost a year and a half. I could do very little, and that just was like not happy or helping at all. So for me, part of the savior has been like binging when I need to binge and then working when I need to work and finding a better system to make sure that I'm I don't want to compartmentalize things, but that's ultimately how I've been able to. This is work time, this is study time, this is rest time, this is parenting time. Um, so we'll have to put like I don't know what they say, like bookmark this, and I do want to talk about some strategies that I've done with Zodai that I don't know if anyone else is experiencing. Like this is something I feel like I'm the only one kind of doing, but not that I'm only like raising her in Isnaab1 or raising Sosuyaja in Ishnaabe, but um I've taken a different approach in the last couple of months, especially in the last week or so, and it's really seemed to be helping, so um we can pin that put a pin in that, that's what they say. English is full of idioms, and I'm just trying to figure out all the idioms. We'll put a pin in that and talk about it at a later date, but yeah, so Sasweaje is still just kind of figuring out how to speak right now. He's trilingual. Do you want to kind of just quickly kind of chat about that before we before I share my piece and we wrap up?

SPEAKER_05 52:11

Um so Soyage so he goes to a French immersion daycare, so he gets exposed to French now from about 7, I'll say around 7 30 a.m. until 5 p.m. Um so he goes there Monday to Friday, and then he comes home. Um, and then so he hears an Ishnabe one from me, and then he hears us speaking English, and then we'll have sometimes English show, TV shows on. So and he's been around family, so he speaks kind of English and Anishinaabon while he's here. Uh sometimes he'll speak some French, but I think he can probably code switch or he can switch if someone speaks French to him, I think. Probably. Um so yeah, he's kind of getting input from three three different places, and um what I'm noticing is that so we sent Zodai to our on reserve daycare, which was trying to incorporate or is still trying to incorporate a lot of language in their programming. Um but that was another spot that we are that I noticed that when Zodai started going to daycare, um a lot of English um she started learning um and are speaking more and with Sasue Ajay, I feel like it's less. I feel like he's speaking a lot of an Ishna Baim one. Um like he does speak English, like he he mixes the English now because um yeah, he'll say something like um I I want Zhaumenga, like I want the orange, you know, something like that. Um but yeah, so that's where kind of he's at. He's kind of I think he's kind of like at the and he was a late talker too. So he's kind of like he's starting to speak a lot more, and he's kind of at that point where he's like, which language do I speak? or I don't think he even thinks about that, but um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

Yeah, so I think we should do an episode on kind of on this as well. But yeah, um I think the French immersion has been helping because he's not getting as much exposure to English, and I'm not saying that French is better because it's still like a colonial language, um but the more languages the better. That's one plus. The second plus is that he's not getting as much exposure from just English, so he it's like more equal from like in parts English, parts French, parts parts nishna bame when and uh the English that I think that he does get, it sounds exactly like Zade. So I think the English that he's getting is mainly from Zade, except I find he gets frustrated sometimes because he doesn't understand in Nishinaabe when um Zodeg had so much access at his age, like to conferences, to friends, to be other people. Maybe she wasn't cognizant of like Nishinaabe when that she was absorbing, but she had way more like ac exposure. So Saryaje has led like zero, um, except for you and me. So I find sometimes when I would explain things to him, I could see like the what's that, the cogs? Is that what it's called? Turning, like the gears. Um, and I could see him like trying to compute like what is she trying to say, and he would get very, very frustrated and very in his head, and I just started to really empathize with him because that's how I felt at immersion, that's how I do feel at immersion, where you're like, I want to talk, but I don't have the friggin' words to get out, and that must be so like it festers, like you get so frustrated. So I did start speaking English to him, and I found it regulated him a lot. But what I also found is like the more regul like life just got a lot easier, not because of speaking in English, but because he's comprehending what's going on. So then when I switch into Nishnabeam when he has something to help him with his Nishinaabe when you may disagree with me on this, but the reason why I do sometimes just go straight up English with him is because then when I say say it in Ishnabe when he can like compare it, and it's like, oh, so when you say that in Ishnabeem when that's really what you mean, because I understand what it means in English, and you are not fluent enough to get it to express that to the same degree. So when I hear a more broken version in Ishnaabe when I know that that's what you're trying to explain to me. So um, I forget what it was, and I was like trying to like ask him, like, is that why you're really upset? Is that oh, like today in the car? Like he was really, he just could not get over the fact that every day when I drive out of the daycare parking lot, I always go to the right, and today I went to the left. And I knew that that was why he was upset because this has happened before, and I couldn't figure it out then, but I figured it out now. And by the time we parked, I was like, it's like, yeah, that it's I'm sorry that that happened, but it happened, and we're gonna have to work through it. Like, not everything's gonna go your way. I was trying to explain it to him, and he was like, just nope, nope, that I wanted to go that way, I want it to go that way. I knew what he was saying, but he it wasn't clear, and then finally I said it in English, like I was like, I understand, like I was kind of like, I understand that you want it to go that way. Can I give you a hug? Um, so the part that I I knew I couldn't express was I appreciate that you have been so forgiving. Thank you for letting me apologize to you, and thank you for forgiving me when I am apologizing about the fact that I hurt your feelings, and I gave him a big hug. I said, Can I give you a hug now? Can I get another hug to make sure you're okay? Okay, let's go inside. I'll give you like take my hand, let's go inside. And he was fine after that, like completely like tantrum gone. Whereas when I was trying to make it happen in Ishnabi when I don't think there were enough like buzzwords or trigger, like words that were helping him like regulate to the point where he was like, Oh, I know what she's trying to say, so we're both just frustrated. Um, so maybe we can talk talk about that for an episode. But I found that bringing in the English when it's coming when it comes down to feelings and regulation have s like it strongly helped both of our kids. with me because I do do a lot of the like emotional work with them. Um and that has helped me big time for everything for all of us to have a smoother routine and a smoother like way of living so that the Anishnabe win can be a good thing and not contributing to everybody's frustration. I want it to help us and not create more issues. Um and so that has been like a positive of like I'm not saying I want to speak English but um that's the only thing that I felt any kind of like okay okay like with when I speak when I say okay I'm gonna commit to talking about this part alone in English and then I'll try and get back on track and we'll go back to like normal things. And I wish that I could do it a different way but for our family that's just I found what has helped the most because otherwise I get extremely frustrated and the whole family's frustrated because I'm stuck in time. That's what it feels like for me like I'm just stuck in time. So um I don't know maybe we cut that part out and put it in a different episode but um yeah he speaks three languages um I was thinking of putting a recording that I took of him tonight both kids when I put them to bed tonight. Um I think this is a good place to kind of end off because I didn't mean for this to be a heavy episode but it ended up being kind of heavy just talking about what went down with me at least in um in my shadow learning journey and raising kids in the language but um Monty hasn't I haven't even told him any of this yet. So well you know you knew Sasuyaji wanted to eat an orange right yeah so um when I went into the bedroom with him we kind of swapped places and I couldn't believe that he was just like communicating to me in Schnabenwin and like he does that but at this point there was like very little English like he was like he said something about Ozal Mangah like he was eating his little clement time or whatever and then he was like um something about like no he said something about dope winning and I was like what you're like you're putting these together and you're talking about something that's not even in the room like I was like oh my god he was like Ozal Mangah da da da dope winning and I'm like eh like you what did I say back to him I should just I just want I could just put the recording on recording on but I was like um yeah you can't eat this in the bed because you might drop it on the floor uh and he's just like yeah something something eat the orange at the table and I was like yeah I couldn't believe it like he was just like the fact that he was talking about something that like a different he was thinking about something that wasn't right like we weren't talking about something right in front of him like yes we're talking about the orange but he was like understanding like I shouldn't be eating this in bed I should be eating it at the table and so then I said like um make sure you chew that because he was just swallowing like the whole orange like he just like cut it in half and then put the whole thing in his mouth and swallowed and I'm like oh my god like you're gonna have a bellyache so I said saying that like you need to chew it because like and then I was like well where did it go and he's like you know showing me and I'm talking to him and like there there was just like zero English and I was like oh my god like from him because sometimes he'll put English words in between and at this point he was like following everything I was saying and speaking on the language and talking about the peel fell over his bed and and then I was like well we can't eat in the bed anymore like we need to eat at the table and he was the one who brought that up but like I went back there and reminded him so I I got some of that on tape like it recorded some of it because I was just like oh my god this is going so great this is going so smooth and then Zodai um I was putting her to bed and right before I came and switched with Monty um putting Susan to bed and I can't like oh so yeah something I've been doing is like playing the Name Wing 49er podcast at nighttime with her um because I was just like really fearful that she doesn't understand fluent speakers. So I'm like how am I gonna do this? So I've been playing that for her and like using it as like we gotta go to bed now. Do you want to listen to this and do you want to read a book because she likes to read and so I know that she can read some English books with my mom so I'm like if I give her a really simple Nishnaabe in one book maybe she can learn to read it too because she's like the first step of learning how to read is more memorizing what's happening on the page. You're not really reading you're just kind of remembering a story and then you start to like actually look at the the letters so I was like maybe I can do that with one of the um one of the books that we have simple book. And so tonight I was like okay tonight what we're gonna try and do is I'm gonna play it and then we're gonna repeat exactly what we hear and then I'll pause it and then we're gonna play it again and then we're gonna repeat what we hear her say and then we're gonna pause it like something that you taught me to do um for my own learning. And so then she got really mad at me. She's like no I don't want you to do it I don't want to do it I'm like friggin' fine like I want you to do it on your own but I didn't think you would so I'm gonna okay fine yeah I thought that you would want my help let's do this then so I like put it on I'd wait for the speaker to say one or two words two maximum and I'd shut it off and so at one point she was saying four or five words at a time that this fluent speaker was saying and I'm like how does she remember that like she acts like she doesn't know so sh I something was like an adjunct um something something it wasn't Banish but something something and she said it all and I was like oh my god so she is figuring out which words are which she's retaining it she's repeating it she's making sense of it and so when we were done we read the two stories we read one story that's very simple and then another story that is a little bit harder that I read it and then you know she repeats after me for the the the easy story and then I read the other story just front to back and so she was looking at me and I said to her like you know it's important that we and I say this to her all the time but I'm like it's important that we like you know start to use Nishina Bamwin I would like you to like really try and speak Nishinaabe more like I say it all the time like it's important that we speak our language it's important blah blah blah blah blah and she's like well she's like so should I speak it and I'm like yeah like yeah I'm asking you like we need to speak it and then um I can't remember if she said this I can't remember if she said well can I say Nishna Binwin first and English second first or after but I was like when she asked me that I was like yep as long as you're speaking Ishna Binwin like you can say the English after if you want to and then she said Bijmont P and dying wa bong and I like just all of a sudden broke down because I know that she can speak the language I know that she understands those concepts but I was literally like I've asked her so many times to speak the language and then she just pieced together like five or six words and for a long time she like hasn't done that you know what I mean like she can speak but she'll always it's like a confidence thing I think for her rather than I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:33

Well an exposure like I would think if she was like if we were around speakers for like a week she'd probably start speaking a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:51

Yeah um which is why I've started bringing her to classes and whatnot recently we can talk about that another time I'm just kind of saying these things so I don't forget in the future but yeah I it doesn't sound like much maybe to others whose kids are speaking all the time nonstop at home but for the amount of obstacles that we've had and all the things that we're facing I just I just started bawling in front of her and I said to her like ah me quin min. Um and well she said like why are you crying? I said moyen and then she like started to wipe my tears and I like couldn't really hold it together. Like I was really like I was ugly crying and yeah I like gave her a big hug and she just kept wiping my eyes and she just kept saying so it was still like absorbing and like I don't know again like I don't want you to roll your eyes into the back of your head I think I'm being a huge cheese ball but the thing that came into my head as soon as that happened was I was like that's regenerational healing right there like that was like all this time all this time and like we both just hopped back on the train tonight so um seeing her actively choose to want to speak the language seeing how like it's not just she's doing it because it's important to me but she was like oh I can see I can understand why you're trying to get us all to do this so then she said like I can't remember exactly precisely what it was but she was like if I keep doing this then I'm gonna be a good speaker like you and then and then I'll become a good speaker like Nose so she can even tell like that you speak better than me because she's like Cause then I'll be a good speaker like you and then I'll be get you'll be a good speaker like Nose and then I'll be a good speaker like nos and then we'll all be speaking the Schnabeen one and I'm like eh get sa like that's exactly why like it's been so healing for me to like level with her on like we're not fluent speakers who are trying to teach you to be a first speaker. We're all freaking learning here together and I think she's starting to understand that because I've had these conversations with her in English like I these conversations I have when it's really detailed about like I some parts say I should mean a shnab um like it's important that we speak the language in the way or in the weighing in the way win and on um but anyways that was just I didn't share that with you yet and I was like I was bawling she's kind of like alright she just rolled over and went to sleep I just thought that would be a good place to end it and then maybe I can add the recording of Sasuyage on the end of this it's just really cute him and I having a conversation about the orange that's yeah she hasn't really you know on her own like strung together like a long sentence a longer sentence you know we have a 45 minute drive every day back and forth so I try and use as much as I can that's relevant with her so yeah remind me yeah we can talk about why forcing her to speak to Schnabe when has not been a good thing or successful. I don't want to talk about it today but it's it's different than I thought it would be like it's not as easy as just no you have to say it in the language that that's been really detrimental in our relationship and her relationship with the Schnabe Mwyn so this has just been a huge win at like coming back to it at from the other side because I tried one way and it really kind of hurt us so we can talk about that again but for tonight I yeah I'm just like that's another reason I was like great let's do this podcast again because like I'm having a huge high from like I said it's a buzzword regenerational healing but that was the first time I was like wow like her and I are like legit like just hopped in the boat together and are like okay like we got we got through one moment like that's it's been a long time coming since we've had a good moment like this and considering the momentum as we're moving forward for the last couple of months and then to see some milestones happen like that I'm just so much more hopeful man that I think we're getting where we wanted to be a long time ago. So yeah I hope you guys like this one I don't know when we'll be out with the next when we find time in our ridiculously busy schedules yeah I think it was good it was a good one to start off with yeah so I don't know I I guess we're gonna have to think of an outro at some point too we don't I don't think we have an outro do we no we just say Bomby later see you all right I just want to go upstairs like Monty's up in our room and I'm downstairs in the kitchen so that we could do a good recording of this and I'm just so ready to throw on some good TV and pass out. Um we have a fluent speaker coming into our classroom tomorrow and um I should get rested up and get ready to be humbled. So just really excited for that. So yeah Timikutch for spending time with us uh if you made it this far I'll put on maybe the the recording of Sasuyaje talking about this clean time and um yeah I guess we'll we'll see on Instagram too and just let you guys know that we're gonna upload this um soon back to all the same places. So Chimiguich Gayegi what is that that Russell says Gazin Gazin I'll have to remember it for next time for joining us for coming um yeah can away thanks so much for listening to our podcast and waiting at our sound to reach us my email find us at our sound period podcast at email.com you can find all of our links to my link which is um what clear and we're gonna complete it on him my younger brother.