S2E2: Nishinaabemwin Bemwidood - Falcon McLeod-Shabogesic

We welcome Nishinaabemwin Bemwidood - Falcon McLeod-Shabogesic an Anishinaabe from Nipissing First Nation to Enweying. We're excited to share his stories of his second language learning experiences, educational pathways he's paved as an Nishinaabemwin educator to embedding language into the sinews of daily life as a parent passing down his heritage language. 


https://www.youtube.com/@falconmcleod-shabogesic790

linktr.ee/enweying.oursound

Many people have reached out to ask where they can donate or support revitalization efforts. This link leads to our Link Tree which has a Patreon as well as "Buy me a Coffee" where you can donate to our families cause and initiatives we do to support learning in the home and across our communities. Miigwech

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The whole thing on the desk.

SPEAKER_10 0:26

Welcome to En Weighing, our Sun Podcast. This is a grassroots podcast intended for those raising or helping to raise children in an indigenous language.

SPEAKER_08 0:37

A special shout out to the Indigenous Screen Office for making season two of En Waying possible. Getcha Migletch.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Bojo.

SPEAKER_08 0:46

Bojo.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Bojo.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

We have our first guest episode. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 0:55

Season two, episode two.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Yeah, I don't know what season it is. I lost track. Season two. Oh.

SPEAKER_06 1:01

Honey, the QA.

unknown 1:04

You can laugh.

SPEAKER_03 1:05

Oh, it is. You did one. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

We recorded another episode. I don't know what that was. It was like a interlude, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Interlude.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

In between seasons.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Yeah, so we we want to do this season with uh some some guests every episode, some guests that are raising their their children using their language. We're we have a lot of friends. Well, I can't I guess I can't say a lot, but we have some friends who are trying to speak to their children in Isnaw Bemwan, and then we're hoping to get maybe some other indigenous languages, some parents on as well. But yeah, this is our first our first guest episode. We'll see how it goes. So we have as we know him and Bemwedut. Maybe uh I call him Bemwedut. Yeah, if you want to introduce yourself. Jimmy Gwetch, how could uh Shaganashim Sadun for those those ones that maybe can't speak Nishnabewin?

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Yeah, my name, uh my Nishnaabe name is keeper of the language there, uh Nishnabe Bemudot. Um I also I'm also called uh Falcon, that's my first name, and Sky is my middle name. Uh depending on how you know me, I have different names. Um I'm from Nipissing, I live in Nipissing, um Nipseng band member. I work at uh kind of all across uh Nipissing territory right now. Uh I teach in the the public high schools here, and so they got me teaching at three different high schools a day, and um one of those high schools is like well, two of them is kind of like online and it's a three-split. So I got three different grades in that one school, which is tricky doing that online, and then I do uh I teach nip sing also at Nip Sing University part-time, and so yeah, so what I do and would a lot of work. Oh yeah, but uh always working on stuff there.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

So how did um how did we meet? We'll go through that story.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Um pretty much, but like I I always saw you at ATEG and like just kind of had my my eyes on you. Infamous Ozawa. Yeah, could see could see him at ATEG and I recognized him and stuff. And my brother-in-law, JP, was like, oh, there's that Nishnaun that does cross. Yeah, um, I think right, yeah, and so um I think where I really like took notice of you was when you were doing that MC there for Atag or something, you know. I think uh I can't remember if you took you went to Oog before that. But I remember when you were you were there speaking, one of my friends was like, Wow, he's he's a good speaker, but he's speaking slow. Can he read from a uh um a script or something to speed it up? And I was like, No, man, that's the point. He's improvising his speech. Like, let's see you do that right now.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Let's see how slow you are.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Yeah, that's how I speak English too.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

So I didn't know you that well at the time, so I was like, trying to defend you there.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Yeah, and then I think I think we did uh Ashkinish, we did a presentation at the Inishna Bam One Tite conference, and then you'd come up to us after, and I think that's where I met you. Yeah, or that's when we first started talking, and then you're talking about U because you because we had gone to Oog by that point, and then you had gone to the weekend weekend version of Oog over there.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Yeah, and then you guys let me into Eshke and couldn't get rid of me after you.

SPEAKER_06 6:36

I don't think that you and I met Bamadu until I brought Zade to Eshke Nishna Bemjick that year. That's where I remember first seeing you was uh during like the lunches and stuff when I went and I brought Zade. So yep, and then like you said, I just kept bumping into you after that.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

I think I think I noticed you as well before that. Like I recognize you like as I was almost partner and stuff, and so yeah, so that's how all of our paths crossed.

SPEAKER_06 7:09

When and where did you have that spark that you wanted to learn to Shna Baemu, and or how did that come to be, or like when did it where did your learning journey start?

SPEAKER_00 7:19

So when I was about five years old, I think. Me and my I come from a family of four, but at the time we were like three, and so me and my two younger siblings, uh, we were getting our Nishnabe names, and uh my brother got his name, uh Nishnaabe name, Snim King Guanquet, Thundercloud, and then my dad was like, Cool, and then my my sister Echo got her Nishinaabe name, um Squimming Guakwe, like Red Butterfly Woman, and my dad was like, Cool, and then like Falcon Sky, his Nishinaabe name is Nishnaabe. And my dad's not a speaker, so he's like, What? And uh it was my I call her my grandmother biologically, she's more like my great aunt, but okay, she always had more of a grandmother type role in my life, and uh she's like, Oh, that means his name's keeper of the language, and my dad was like, geez, what a weight to put on a five-year-old's shoulders, and so like I guess I tugged at my dad's like arm or something to get his attention. Dad, what's my Nishnaban name? He's like, Nishna Bam and Damwid. What does that mean? Keeper of language means you gotta learn it and stuff. I was like, Okay, I got it. So when I was younger, I would harass my mom because she was the closest thing I had access to, speaker-wise. Because I think her first language was Ojibwe, but then she lost it, and so I figure she would be a good place to start learning. Um, she's from Chiging, and uh, we're living in Nip Sing and stuff, and uh eventually after me bugging her, she finally gave in and she would make all these language resources and teach us through that, and so uh she made all these animals, like these magnets, and she put them on the fridge and we'd learn the animals, and then we do numbers and stuff like that. I remember being young and being able to count to like a hundred in a good boy. She uh she made bingo games, um, just classic, classic bingo games, uh, like colors and shapes and stuff. And so we did that. She's at home, yeah. Just at home.

SPEAKER_07 9:51

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

And she would make or she would buy uh she'd buy prizes to help entice us. And uh she'd start teaching us uh phrases um around the dinner, uh around the dinner table and stuff like that. And like uh just being like in a family of three, we're always trying to like outdo each other and stuff like that, and trying to show off how much Ojibwe we could speak to our mom. And uh over time my sister Echo, she tries like I I think one of us must have said something in Ojibwe. We got some praise from our parents, and Echo got all jealous, and she tried to show off how much how good her Ojibwe was. And she wanted to tell like mom, like, I love you, and she goes, Mama, zawama damma. I kind of like I turned around and I go, What did you say? She's like, I said zawamade mama.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

I was like you said butter, mom, like when you put on toast.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

No, I meant to say I love you, and I was like, um, yeah, and so um it kind of stalled out from there for a bit. Um my mom, uh, she's not a trained educator and stuff like that. And so she was doing the best she could uh with what she could think of and what she can make, and she was really creative and awesome that way. Um and then uh when it came to pick high schools, there was a few options. There was like French options, there was public school options, and then there was the the dingy res high school of all the bad kids went to, and uh it had OJ Boy language, and I absolutely hated French uh growing up, like in elementary school, like I was so I was like I was the kid waving the indigenous flag and stuff like that. Like we have like indigenous clubs or whatever growing up, and I was always the one carrying the staff and the feather and like and that kind of stuff, and and so I was just like really uh I just hated anything colonial, and so when it came to do French stuff, I didn't even bother studying, I would write my answers on the on the desk for the tests, and I would casually cover it there. Oh teacher, let me pass. So I don't know if I got away with it or if he just let me do. I was the top of my class, valedictorian everything, and I didn't like the idea of our high school being labeled the one for bad kids, and it had Ojibwe, so I was like, I'm gonna go there, I'm gonna learn Ojibwe, and uh I was gonna go there for one semester and then transfer out to uh the public high school, get my Ojibwe language credit, and then uh play some football or something. I ended up staying all four years, just loved it there, and I got to learn Ojibwe every year. I was the first student there to take advanced Ojibwe language courses there. Oh wow, nice.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Yeah, who was your teacher?

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Uh it was Muriel Sawyer button, or B. Dog button there. She actually taught me in kindergarten first.

SPEAKER_09 13:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Um, and then at some point she left to to be the principal at our secondary school, and then um, yeah, she was there. And uh when I was my first year, and she was like, Okay, we're gonna teach you guys how to spell in Ojibwe. If you guys, if anyone can get a spelling test perfect, I'll let you out early. And so I caught on to her tricks pretty quick, and I I got us out early. And like it was like throughout the whole course, it was just like everything she'd say, like, oh, if you do this, if someone does this right, we'll we'll get out early. And then eventually it was oh, if it's some if someone gets this right, except Falcon, you get out early, and then eventually it was okay, this is the deal. If someone else shut up, Falcon can do this, you'll get out early. And then uh yeah, and then uh second year I took Ojibwe with her because she wanted to get me flint. Um, that's when uh Blair Bocash joined us and Beezing, and she was just like, Man, this guy's good at Ojibwe. Like he's his mouth is built to speak Ojibwe, he just had the the the accent and the intonation right away, and so she falcon, you're gonna tutor him, get him caught up. It shouldn't take long. And sure enough, it didn't. And so him and I kept going with language stuff and other other kind of notable teachers in the area. Like that's where we first started meeting was Muriel's class. Yeah, and then I went to Algoma University. Muriel had over prepared me for that one. Um, didn't really learn anything until about third year, and uh kind of maxing out with Muriel and then maxing out at Algoma, I was just like, damn, is this all uh is this all I need for Ojibwe? Like I feel like I can't carry a conversation, but I'm popping out at all these court, uh, all these programs. And then uh eventually my brother-in-law, um JP, uh and he got an Abe. He's like, dude, I heard about this immersion camp in Minnesota. Like, Freak, they're the real deal, man. Like, they're awesome. Like, I've I thought I was I thought I was all that too, and then I go there and it's like frig, man, I don't know anything. And so he brought me my first year to oog, and then like, yeah, got humbled right away. Um, I remember seeing like uh uh Manadoma Ingun walk in, and he wasn't a student, like he just kind of showed up one morning, yeah, and I was like, freak man, check out the jognash coming in here thinking like he owns a place, and I was like just kind of measuring him up there, and then uh speakers, elders start talking, and then he starts cracking jokes in Ojibwe, and I was like, holy freak, I remember these things, and so there was uh I it was a lot of um learning happened there for me, and a lot of doors opened up for me to to understand what I what I needed to know and stuff like that, and how I could elicit that that kind of learning. And then meeting I went to Gabo and everything was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Were you um when you were there, were you tired too, like after the day?

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Uh yeah. Um the first time I went, I I was I don't usually nap, but those uh that first that first kind of like that first time going, I did feel really tired, like on the verge of napping, but I never napped. But like I felt so physically tired like from all the brain work you're like doing and stuff in in immersion. Um yeah, I haven't been like that since, but uh yeah, it was it was quite the experience, and then getting your fluency evaluated by Megaz, that was a real humbling experience.

SPEAKER_06 17:25

Oh wow, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

But yeah, like Muriel had a goal of getting me to to fluent, and when I went to Oog, Megaz evaluated our speaking abilities, like it said low-level fluency on it. I think it was just bare, like bare minimum on there, and like I was super proud of that. I was like, frig Muriel, you did it. Um wasn't proficient, like super high proficient, but it was just like I did I had no idea that there was a scale that that could be evaluated, and it was just like I was like, there it is, and then there's there I am. So yeah, I was I was so happy, proud, and humbled.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

And uh so that was the the weekend one, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

I did that one twice.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

So that was like one was it one weekend a month for six months or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

No, it was six months, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:24

Oh, okay. No, so you just like you would you travel there? Was it on yeah, you traveled there for the weekend?

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Oh yeah, I forgot to say at the time uh when I traveled there to the weekend, I was living in Thunder Bay. Oh, okay, okay. And so it was like it was like a four-hour drive, yeah. Okay, no, no, um, yeah, so it was a four-hour drive, wasn't too bad. Uh, I tried going to the I applied for the summer one for like the three-week thing. Um, I didn't get in. I assume it was just like they had others that they felt that needed the help more or something, and so uh didn't get in. Uh never applied again. Uh just because life-wise, uh I kind of moved back to Nipissing. I was in Thunder Bay, and so it's kind of hard to travel like 14-15 hours away for that. Uh luckily, Eshke was freaking was freaking rolling around there in Sudbury, which is an hour away. And so went to Sudbury once. I think that was like my first year teaching that first year teaching here in Nipissing. Like Eshke was there. I was like, oh dang, let's go to Eshke. So applied there and got in just barely.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

And then that was kind of I guess that kind of helped you with the Odawa version, I guess, of speaking that dialect, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

Hearing speakers, like trying to listen to speakers from wiki is like one of the hardest things.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Yeah, it it was hard, but like my favorite part of Eshke was uh Albert Owl. Because like I would I remember being at Eshke and like thinking, Frigman, I don't know anything. And like Albert would be telling a story, and in the language he'd be asking, so what do you understand? What do you remember from the story? And I'd be like, Nothing.

unknown 20:22

Nothing.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

And then uh he was really uh supportive and stuff like that. He'd probe and prod at you there a little bit, and then like he'd show you that you actually know more and you you understood more than you think you did, and stuff like that. And so that was really uplifting. And because like I remember there's like one time where he like I was just like freak, I don't like I just can't remember anything. And he was like, Well, do you remember this character? I was like, Well, yeah, and then he's like, Well, then what happened with that character? And I was like, Oh, well, this happened, this happened, and eventually, like they were just like, Yeah, that's pretty much the whole story.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

I was like, So I think like since then, since how when was that 2017, 2018?

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

What have you been doing? Um like other than teaching, like for your own learning, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Oh, for my own learning, um bugging you guys, little private lessons there, uh, and wanna gobble. Like there was times where I was almost messaging him like every day. Uh, but for myself, the way I saw Ug or um organized, like when we got there, they'd give you um uh list of survival phrases, but they also gave you the paradigms for the VTAs, and then going to Eshke and seeing that same kind of setup, I started applying that kind of stuff in Nipissing, and realizing that it didn't quite work. There was some friction with the speakers, and they're just like, no, that's not how you say it, or no, since I've been living in Nipissing, I've been taking all that kind of like that skeletal framework and filling it with the body of Nipissing vocabulary and the way Nipissing does their stuff, and some of their stuff is pretty weird. I like, I don't know, I don't know how many people claim that their dialect is like a weird one or a monkey wrench one, but like frig, like ours got some weird stuff, and I remember showing a win a gobble some stuff, and he'd be like, dang, you guys are weird. Yeah, so for my own learning, it's just been taking that kind of stuff that you guys would give us at immersion camp, learning the nipsing version of that, and also too, like making my language resources for my classes and stuff make things more accessible and easier to do. And it just seems like for language learning, there's a a certain pedagogy of having a um a dictionary, but also as well as like linguistic materials that kind of like work well together, kind of doing your own learning and practices through that, and then so really making that stuff in nipping dialect for my students, and then having them learn how to use those materials and and do all that so that they have um uh the skills to to do that if they go somewhere else, and they have. How are you finding your high school classes? Grade nines are a bit hit and misses, really proud of some of them. Like it's it's surprising how high you can set the bar for them, how far they can go and reach things. It's it's just some of them. They like once you have the class structured a certain way and organized, and they know how to uh navigate it, then they're able to really progress really well. And like uh for my students, we have a grammar lesson at one point, and then I give a worksheet based on that grammar lesson, and then the marked assignment is them listening to audio of me speaking Ojibwe, and then they got to transcribe it and translate it, and then that's all related to that same lesson we did, and then all of my lessons are kind of scaffold, so they kind of build off each other, and so by the end, they're able to express like like theoretically with the use of the dictionary and all their notes and from our grammar lessons, they're able to express like hundreds of thousands of things, if not more. They're able to navigate that stuff, and it's it's really rewarding to see them do that and do well. I have one student in particular this semester who is like showing up my university students, and he's like a 10. Wow, like I I give the university stuff the same stuff as the high school kids, and uh we like to inject some some humor and stuff and like to poke fun at each other. And uh, this one student he was listening to my audio and it said uh said something like Mama Gui Deo Kwe de Bitcoin. And then he was listening to me and he goes, Mom had a headache last night? Freak Mr. McLeod, she must have been listening to your YouTube videos. And so it's just stuff like that. Like they're able to like hear it in being spoken and then kind of understand it and respond, not in an ojib way, but like, yeah, it was just apprehend it. Yeah, I was yeah, I was really impressed and I was really happy, and yeah, I'm just surprised. Like they're really flexible, they're a lot more flexible than I thought they'd be in terms of like where you could set the bar.

SPEAKER_06 25:55

I was just curious, yeah, just because like to I'm teaching high school now too, and I don't know if I should be, but there's a demand. So I was just curious for my own interest on like yeah, hearing some of your methods and pedagogies and approach. And yeah, I think I called you on like the second day. Uh so yeah, it's just kind of cool to hear more now that I'm in a different spot.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Yeah, I remember feeling like that too. And every now and then you get that imposter syndrome. Like, what am I doing here? Like, I shouldn't be here, but yeah, happy to hear you stuck it out.

SPEAKER_06 26:34

I really like this. I have a really good, good group right now, really, really good. And they're being able to take them as far as I've been able to take any group at this semester and this year. Just but I have nine to twelve in one room, um, and a whole variety. So, but yeah, I was just kind of curious, yeah, before we head into the material to kind of hear a little bit more about your teaching journey as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yeah. So did you like when did you did you always think that you're gonna have kids and that you're gonna speak to them in in Snabeman? Or or was there a point when you were like you thought about okay, yeah, I do want to have kids and I want to speak to them?

SPEAKER_00 27:16

I always knew I wanted to be a dad. I always knew that. It just never crossed my mind that I'd be doing it speaking Ojibwe. I think when I saw you guys with Za Dai, and I was just like, I was like, and then like Rochelle with her kids and stuff, and like I remember being at ATEG when Rochelle, I think, presented the first time, and just seeing her like kind of like emotionally break down when she took her son to to get that to one at evaluation, and they're like, he's scoring lower than he should be for his age, and they kept going, and then like they're like, What's wrong? And then they're like, Oh, maybe he speaks a different language, and then once they like changed the language, he was scoring where he should be for his age, and then just like that sense of relief she had, or whatever, or not relief, but like that it it's working, and so that was really heart-touching. Um being there for when she taught uh told that story, and then uh yeah, seeing you guys with with sawdye, and it's like freak, like gotta do it now. Freaking they set the bar. Hearing stories uh about Jessica and and her boys now and stuff like that too. Yeah, and it's uh it's uh it's like a weird snowball with uh with my son Shkardanian there. Cause like right now it's at this point where I I look at him and I can't even speak English, even if I wanted to. It's just like he just triggers like Ojibwe in me. And I I kind of thought it was just in my head, like I was just making up, I was just being romantic or something. It's like recently took him to the park. We were both at the top of the park, and he was walking by uh a gap where there was a ladder and stuff, and we were two stories high, and uh he uh he started stumbling by this gap like towards it, like he was gonna fall through it, and I was so scared I wasn't gonna catch him. And instead of yelling him, like yelling at him like, watch out, or like grandma, like out of reflex, I yelled, I'm gonna he ended up catching his balance and then kind of like walking away from that spot, but like it was just it was kind of surreal just uh think that as a parent, like you're gonna protect them with what you know best. And in that moment where I thought he was gonna fall and hurt himself, like three and Half year old, like falling down that I was really scared, and the Ojibwe came out of me. Yeah, and so like that's awesome. Just felt like I could probably I don't know if I can stop yet if I wanted to. So not that I'm a really proficient speaker, but just just doing it all the time with them now.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Yeah, it's awesome. So now that you've started this parent journey of speaking, and what are some of the challenges I've come across?

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Like with language learning, you don't know what you don't know. And so, like when we do immersion, we start learning our gaps in our knowledge to be able to tell someone like get out of there, you know. Like it's just different levels of like being proficient, like you could say, like Ma John or something. Speakers will like they're to replicate them, they wouldn't say really that, and maybe more of like engudget John. And me as a language where you're going, that makes no sense, go somewhere, like how does that mean get out of here? They're like, it just does, and so just kind of finding those gaps and working your way around it, you know, asking speakers and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

And it's so unpredictable, like when you're in the moment with the child, and it's like, how do I say that? Like they're playing like Legos or something, and they're trying to build something. You're like, how do I say like it's gonna fall apart? Like, how do I say that? Like something like that.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Yeah, I wouldn't know how to say it's falling apart. Talk about him breaking it or something, or it falling, but yeah, yeah, those nuances are hard to to get in the moment and stuff like that. And when you don't know it, you don't know it. So gotta make with make do with what you have.

SPEAKER_06 31:45

Yeah, so do you have any like strategies that you'd use like to get around that? Like if you're wanting to speak about something like that, like do you make up words on the spot? Do you talk around it or do you just like to go to the next thing? Like, what would yes? All of the above, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Like, no, I'll get to I'll get to that later. But uh yeah, I'll make up words, like telling my son to have a good sleep. I would do the what you would think you would say, like non bah, and then uh uh and then start talking to a speaker and stuff and learn that like guame is like the root word for sleeping, and then your adjective, like kind of like that initial root, uh, is where you describe how the sleep is, and so transitioning later to non-guame and like have a good sleep and stuff like that. So making up words and getting corrected on them, a lot of talking around stuff too, like like I said earlier, like I don't know how to say it falls apart, but yeah, you can talk about him maybe hitting it and then like it falling and then it's broken or whatever, um, or he broke it and stuff like that. But yeah, I think one of the um what I feel like one of the main things I kind of do is give myself permission to take a step back and to just let something happen, um, and to not say anything if I don't know how to say it in Ojibwe. My son's three and a half years old. I don't know of any three-year-old that needs to be told something once and they understand it. And and so, like, I remember when Agabo telling a story um at a uh at ATEG, and he was talking about a certain age level for when it's possible to become highly proficient in a language, and I think he said it was somewhere around 15 or 16 because there was some sort of brothers in the states that moved to the states from somewhere, I forget where, but they're like if I told the names to my parents, they'd recognize them. And he said that like for that example, one was older than 16 when they first came, the other one was under 16. But when they got older, the one that was older than 16 still had their like like their native accent when they spoke English, but the other one was like what I'm just so awesome, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

Wait, I just really whoa no.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Did I dream that no when you wave us stuff on the screen on the screen? Things will pop up.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

I I didn't even know that. But yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_04 34:43

Okay, sorry for the non-sears. The show dude is holding up his two fingers all of a sudden went to balloons, throws to the throws over the over the depths of I don't know where to up to the sky.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

I thought I was getting encouragement from the students.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Okay, yeah, so like the one guy was the one that was older than 16 when they grew up, they still had their like accent from their country, and the other one that was under 16, when they spoke English, you couldn't tell that they were from another country, and so that lends to the theory that there's something in that age range, and so that just kind of brings me comfort comfort that if I don't know something right now, like I have until he's about 15-16 years old to really try and get that figured out by then, and so do my own research and pester speakers where I can message Ozala, yeah. And so that's that's kind of like one of my my main things is letting stuff happen and then taking note of it and then trying to capitalize it for when it happens again, knowing Shudanage, it's gonna happen again, and then that's when I'm ready.

SPEAKER_06 36:08

That's really helpful, honestly, for me to hear. Like that actually just put me a little bit more at ease because yeah, I'm like, there's so much that I'm there's so much that I don't know. Um, and yeah, it's totally different dynamic when I'm asking me when I'm asking Ozawa, because and what he says back to me or doesn't say ozal made, babe. Echo's gonna kill me for coining her term, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

She uh she's a good sport about it though. She tries to say it to Skudanian just like a family joke and stuff. That is so sweet, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:57

So he gets to hear from some of your family too, too, then who speak to him?

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Um yeah, a little a little bit. My mom is probably like she doesn't speak as much Ojibwe as I do or and can, but she tries where she can and she sees what I do and how much work I put into it, and so she tries her best, and then she'll nudge my dad and like freak, you know how to say an Ojibwe. And so he'll he's uh he's not a speaker. Um and so he's come to the age where he he's accepted that he's never gonna be a speaker, and so um he's just not too sure. Like he knows like he can't produce speakers, so he he'll just share what he can when he can. Um and then my sister tries doing stuff. Um my brother-in-law JP, who's um a language teacher as well at Algoma University. Um and his partner message me. They're like, Oh, if we had Scudanage uh uh for babysitting, what are some phrases that uh he knows that he like he responds to in it in Ojibwe? And this was really helpful for me at the time, because at the time I was like, Oh man, my son doesn't like he's not picking up Ojibwe, like he doesn't like there's so much to Ojibwe, he doesn't know and stuff. And then I I go to respond to this text message, and freaking I listed out a big book of a like text message of all these phrases and words he definitely knew and recognized, and it was just like oh wait, he he does know quite a bit, like then I was forgetting words, so I was adding to it even more, so yeah. So he um his grandmother on his mom's side is also a language teacher. Um she she does her best with what she can. Um, my partner Marie, um, she tries to speak Ojibwe with him, she's bilingual, like French and English, so she can pick up some language stuff easier than I can. Like I was monolingual for the longest time, and then if I can claim a second language, it might be Ojibwe, but like depending on how you want to label that with the lack of proficiency and stuff like that. I remember one time I was talking to Marie, and she was just like, she's a very gentle person when she talks about things, and she's just like, I mean this in the most gentle way, but I think my French, like, even though it's like taking a real hit since being with you, I think my French is still better than your Ojibwe. And I was just like, hell yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Yeah, so part of that too, you're talking about some of the unexpected positive impacts, and I think you're saying like it gets your family to start speaking more, kind of pushing themselves.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Yeah. Um, yeah, also, too, because we're talking about positive impacts of it. Um, my son goes to daycare off reserve. Our friends, um, who we think very highly of, they they were like, Oh, you gotta take your your kid to to this daycare and try and get him in. This one lady here, Cindy Willette, there, she's amazing. And so I was like, Yeah, sure. Um, we go and Cindy goes, like, she's a a white lady who can speak some French. She goes, Okay, so uh yeah, we'll get an interview. Uh, what's your son's name? Shud Ninja. She was like, say it again. I was like, Shke de Ninj. And she eventually learned it, um, well, pretty quick. Like, especially when you have to like yell at him to do stuff. Like, you're gonna learn that their names pretty quick. Um, but yeah, um, and she started realizing that sometimes he responds better if Ojibwe spoke. And so she would text me, like, what could I uh how would I say this? How would I say that? And so she starts incorporating into daycare. Um, and like she starts incorporating like all their kind of like seasonal stuff, like she would get me to translate stuff, and then she would make things in Ojibwe there in the so like it's trilingual, like English, Ojibwe, French, and then like we have this kind of routine where when we pick up Skidanj, he like he says Baal Mau P and they all say Bom P and get him to say gazognim and stuff, and and say like like they're speaking Ojibwe, and we're getting stories from other parents, like like um the kids telling their grandparents Baal Mau P and their parents like, What would you say to me? Um, and then from that, uh other families are like like, oh, we hear this this one daycare here is good for indigenous kids. And so I recently heard about a family going, like, yeah, we heard uh so-and-so's kids and good ange go here, so like, yeah, we heard good things about this one. So our daycare workers like going, Wow, like thanks for the positive reviews. And it's like I remember almost breaking down at one point, and I was like, Freak, you welcomed our son into your home because it's a home daycare, like you learned his name, like you start incorporating his heritage language. Like, I never asked you to do any of that, you did that on your own. Pretty touching, emotional, and just uh see that happen and and to have that happen was was I I super appreciate it.

SPEAKER_06 43:03

Yeah, just unexpected to to have like a non-indigenous environment or place, start using it, and that's where it's probably showed to the other children to the point that it's like okay, they're absorbing, so it's obviously happening. Like it's powerful for your son to be able to have that environment, right? To kind of ingrain or influence it even more or to motivate or to be normalized even more. Like that's that's pretty powerful.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

I remember having a talk with our daycare worker about um preschool or elementary school, and she was like, you know, Skudanj, he's really good with Ojibwe, he's really good with English, he's picking up French really well. Like, you could uh you should seriously think about having him at a French school. And at the time, like well, I still struggle with kind of like white people anxiety, like anytime I'm just like in an area, like an institution that's just colonial, like the French schools and stuff. Like I get real anxiety when I walk in there, and um I remember talking to her, I was like, I don't know about that. Like, I invested so much time and effort into the English school there, like with bullying with long hair and stuff. Like I went through a lot there. Now, like I know that if my son goes there, he's not gonna have the same experience as I did. But at a French school, I don't know if those kids have that same exposure, and like and she meant this in the best way possible. But she was just like, Yeah, maybe Skudanage could be that exposure for them. In my mind, I'm I'm really holding back my my parent instinct, and it's like, well, why does my son have to be that? Like, white people learn your own, learn this stuff on your own, you know. But again, like the parents that first hooked us up with that daycare, uh, their kids go to a French school, and one of their kids is a boy with long hair. And I I messaged them and I was like, How's uh how's your little guy with with that school? Is there bullying? Because I'm gonna come if there's bullying. And he was just like, No, there's like I've been there a few times, I've talked to the school and stuff, but like, no, there's been no bullying. There's a few indigenous kids already there, and I was like, Oh, okay, well, then maybe it is a non-issue to have Skuddenge there, and then also too, worst thing that could happen is we take him out and put him in the English school.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

It's definitely hard decision, just being a parent in general and being indigenous and non-indigenous environments. So hopefully, you know, there's some non-indigenous people that listen and that listen to this and can kind of pick up on that.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

And tell all my uh colleagues there at Near North about this podcast, be like, Yeah, I'm on it. Listen to it for your indigenous studies class there. Some good relationship discussions.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Um, do you have any what's your advice for uh parents who are thinking about doing this, raising their kids in language? Maybe they're maybe they feel like they're not quite proficient yet, or they're just learning, they're just starting their language journey, but or they're just ready to have kids. What's your advice to them?

SPEAKER_00 46:34

I I guess it's just uh to really give yourself the permission to learn as you go and uh not have to respond to things because like for me, my partner, she speaks English to our son, and so like he's exposed to so much English and stuff, like it's his first language, definitely, but like she can talk to some things for him, and I eventually intend to talk to those things for him when when I'm when I'm able to. But yeah, give your give yourself permission to not react to things right away, to take note of it and go, oh, this is a learning opportunity for me to for the next time and to capitalize on that, and uh give yourself permission to to not quite get it that second time, but like maybe make it better the third time and maybe get it the fourth time, you know. Like there's there's time, you know, to to capitalize on that kind of stuff. I remember again, like my with my brother-in-law, he was my best friend. Um, well, still is, but like I've known him longer than my partner. And so um, I remember once within when he was real small, I was just like, freak man, like I was down on myself, I forget what I was saying, but he was just like, he was like, you know, like you like, yeah, you're not like a proficient native speaker, but like compare the exposure Shudench has had right now to what you had as a kid, and like at that age, and I was just like, Yep, there's definitely a lot more. There are things I could do better, perspective, yeah. Yeah, like but again, there's just that mental health aspect too that I just can't do because I need to take care of myself. Like, uh Shudaninch hasn't really been with neat like native speakers, like those who are first speakers yet. And it's just because, like, well, he was born during COVID, so don't want to expose anyone, but like, even now, it's just like freak man, I'm tired from like doing all the work I do, yeah. Um and then coming home and doing my parenting stuff, and then interacting with Shadanin, and it's like, you know what? Like, he's got a bedtime, we gotta keep on schedule, so haven't uh taken to visit with speakers as much as I think I should. Yeah, it's something you can hopefully work on later.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Yeah, definitely. That's the juggling act of you know us being learners, but also teachers of the language, and that responsibility in itself, and then now we're raising kids. There's like all of this, and I don't think people really understand, you know, how much work that is and how much brain power that takes to do all of that.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Not only that, but like the um emotional stuff too. Cause like like I remember when I was younger, like I I knew from a young age that I wanted to be a father, I wanted to impart all my favorite interests and stuff like that and to my kids and have them like grow up with those same things and stuff like that. Like I can I can only talk so much about Batman in Ojibwe. Yeah, like I I remember reading the Harry Potter books and and enjoying them as a kid, but like I can't I don't know how to say some of that stuff in Ojibwe, and so it's just like you're you're kind of cut like putting that stuff away, and you're just like, this is what I what I can give my son or my my child, and he's not getting it anywhere else. Like he can watch Batman or something or Hot Wheels, but like he can't get the Ojibwe stuff, and so there's that connection that him and I don't necessarily have that I thought we would, and that's just something I just never realized. Like, I think I remember Rochelle talking about I think wanting to read Harry Potter books to her kids, and it's like, well, they're not an Ojibwe, so we're not doing that. Those are kind of dreams that we have as parents before we're parents to to do with our kids to have those Kodak moments or whatever.

SPEAKER_06 51:02

So yeah, like you have to sacrifice a lot all the time because like either you don't have time or you don't have the access or you don't have the ability to switch it up. When I was in immersion at Oog, we get and actually when I was learning the sh um German when I was living in Austria, I get like headaches, like 24 hour seven headaches because you're in a different language and you're learning it and whatever. And like I experience that just in our household, just like which is something you don't like, you're not you don't think you're gonna okay, I'm gonna raise my kids with a 24 hours from like being trying to like consistently do every single thing, and like also like and then you have English people listening or English people talking to you, and you're like trying to stay in the language with the one, but also like you're in the same room as other people. Like we just came from like a birthday party and we're like trying to like speak to the kids in the language, and also like I'm not using this tone because I'm a mean mom, I'm just using this tone because I'm trying to sound as much like a speaker as possible. So, you know what I mean? I'm like, might have been no or whatever, right? And it's just it's this is really nice for me to be able to hear your experiences. Cause yeah, like we're very hard on ourselves. And also, like again, it's like another thing added when you feel like you're not seen by other parents because you can't explain like walking in two worlds, being a teacher, walking in another two worlds, then like raising kids. Like, I don't know if you experience that or feel like that or not, but I feel like it's like you're trying to navigate like eight different no, it's just me.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

Oh, I get super fixated at work. Like I'm the language guy because like all I'm in the language department, to be honest. And so, like, like that is my main focus, and like that's where a lot of my effort gets put towards. And so when people are talking about like indigenous issues, like the more social aspects, they don't really come to me all that much. Um, they may come every once in a while, but mostly they know like I'm the language guy, and they don't really kind of like talk to me. And so, like uh one of my classrooms, well, the classroom that I'm in the whole day, it's got no windows, um, and it's kind of like hidden away. Um and it's like like I'm just in there, like working, like when it comes to um uh my prep period. Uh, if I'm not marking assignments, I'm either researching stuff or for lessons or making materials and stuff like that. So I'm like just like fixated on language stuff. Sometimes I'll wake up in the morning and early and just be working on stuff just because like I just feel like I have to, and so like I like in terms of working, walking in two worlds, like I don't really know if I um feel that way just because I'm just so uber fixated on stuff. Like my partner Marie is just surprised sometimes because like we'll be sitting there watching a TV show, and I might be there for like 10 minutes. I'm like, okay, time to do some audio transcriptions and translations. See ya. And she's just like freak, man. Like, can't you just like sit down and rest? Like, nope, there's a language that needs to be revitalized. I need to go do that.

SPEAKER_06 54:43

Wow. Yeah, yeah. I guess I just mean, yeah, like trying to always bring it into this, like when like I I go to a school and it's a colonial space, right? And I'm around all non-native people, and I'm similar to you, um, being that I'm the only one on the whole board um teaching. And so again, yeah, I just kind of meant like um just having to navigate, always like bringing it in and bringing it in and revitalizing.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

Like I hear my colleagues struggle with that kind of stuff. Like we just had a mental health PD session and like talking about some of those struggles, and like I was just talking, like, frick, man, like I feel so sheltered because of like our team here, you know. Like, like we like we have our team leaders who structure my classes in this kind of way where I have these co-teachers I work with, and so like I have my like our leads kind of like covering my back, and I've got like our co-teachers here that I'm working really that are doing really well with, and like they're covering from different angles and stuff, and so there was a lot of talk about navigating different things with colonial people and stuff like that. And I was just like, No, I don't got any of that right now. Like, I have my own issues, but like just it's like it's like for me, the way my classes and stuff and is structured, it's I feel very sheltered and stuff like that. And usually in language classes, you'll have people who come from an Indigenous studies background go into a language class and then turn it into an Indigenous studies class. Yeah, and for me, when I first started, I like I had to teach both Indigenous studies and language, and then sorry the fireworks man.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

So fireworks just came up on the screen, so yeah, I need a I need a list of uh these hand gestures to stop doing them.

SPEAKER_06 57:02

It's too awesome, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:04

But but uh what was I saying there?

SPEAKER_06 57:10

That you were doing uh indigenous, you're having to do indigenous and language at the same time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:16

Yeah, and then my my leads were like, uh, so you had your first year teaching, how do you feel about it? I was like, Frig, if I could just get language classes, like like that would be the bomb, you know. And they were like, Really? I was like, Yeah, if you could just hook me up with language classes all day, like friggin' that's my comfort zone. And then they did, and like like I have positives and negatives to commuting and not commuting and stuff, but like still like to to not have or like other teachers, they don't know what they're teaching, like year to year, like they have to figure that out on the fly and stuff. And for me, it's like no, I got I'm teaching language all the freaking time, and uh that is uh my comfort area, and I'm so appreciative of it.

SPEAKER_06 58:13

I want to come come to you more often. But is there is there anything else that like you maybe not just even for parents, but for people learning direction or like I said, resources or tips that you would suggest or what helps other people learn to speak? Loaded question, probably tons, but um you pick one.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

Oog, I'd have to say oog, like I'm diehard nipissing, you know, like we're we're vowel syncopators and stuff too, but just to be exposed to language in its like fullest form the way they have it, and to learn the structure, it's so much more easier to do it that way. And I've seen teachers in this area try and teach stuff from a nippissing kind of perspective without that knowledge, and it's convoluted and overcomplicated. But if you know like the full versions of words and stuff and the grammar that goes along with that, then it's like okay, this like vowel dropping or syncopation is really I'm so sorry, I'm not trying to interrupt you.

SPEAKER_04 59:23

This is a friend who would be like, Yeah, it's behind me.

SPEAKER_06 59:28

We're like learning together, and she's and she's like unsyncopated, and I'm syncopated, and she's just like, I don't understand, like it's so much harder than when you're drawing my attention.

SPEAKER_04 59:37

And anyway, she would just be like, Yes, I wouldn't like exactly she's gonna rip me up when she's when she hears this. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you there.

SPEAKER_06 59:51

You're the has like an un um really vastly of expressing and structuring like just having that knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

Knowledge of like the full versions of the words and then knowing how to vowel drop afterwards, um, and just that exposure to how linguistics can assist you with your speaking and fill in those gaps and stuff like that. Like basically do the Eshkinishna Bemjic model, steal from Oog. And so um, yeah, that's that's probably my my main like the the top thing I would say. Like, I remember some people telling me, like, oh uh what immersion camp or what language thing do you think I should do? And it's like, ooh, go to freaking oog. There are some people who I don't think can make the the trip, and then when that happens, I go, go to eshke. Never mind that, go to eshke. And so, like, I remember, I remember I have Rand's blue book, his big blue book there, and not being able to make heads or tails of what was going on there. But once I went to Oog, and then like lessons with the Wanagabo and stuff like that, and how that can be incorporated into your speech and stuff, it's like, oh, okay, I get this now. And so, like, once you're able to go there and get some guidance, then you're able to kind of piece things together, and then you can do it in your in your home dialect and stuff like that, and dialect dies your your speaking.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:25

Yeah, I think like out like out west there, Minnesota, Wisconsin, they have more of uh like a spelling or writing standard that they that everyone kind of follows. You know, in Ontario, we don't really have that. I don't see that happening anytime soon, but I think that was really helpful, you know, seeing that standardized kind of like pretty close, like 99%, like a standardized writing system and grammar rules that they follow, and then that helps, yeah. Like you said, like going back here and then teaching syncopated, syncopated style, you have that better understanding of why words change and all that. Yeah, so like even if I know like I don't know how many people would do it, but like like Minnesota, University of Minnesota, they offer like the online option for people to take their course, you know. I don't know the all the details, you know, but yeah, I think I heard enrolling and all that.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:27

I think it's hurt I heard it's it's not a full like if you do it online, it's not like a fully accredited, I don't know, diploma you get afterwards. Frigman, like have like having that kind of like because like um I when I went to Oog, when I first went to Oog, like at this point I was 20 something, learning since I was five years old, and then like thinking I'm I'm impressive or something, you know, Jimboy, and then uh going there and meeting some of one of Winicabo students and like frick man, you're like three times the speaker I am. How long have you been doing this for? Oh you know, just three years. It's like that for you, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:10

Yeah, yeah, like they're I noticed that like their adult teaching, teaching pedagogy was like, I don't know, I want to say they're like 10 years ahead of like Ontario, I guess, in terms of like teaching adults and teaching postsecondary and just the style that they use and all of that. I think we're catching up.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:33

Yeah, I I definitely feel like we're catching up to to a certain degree, and we're kind of reorienting the echo chamber we're in. The more we have more like-minded individuals kind of saying stuff, you know, like the more people are catching on. Like, I do notice that shift. Um, because I'm not gonna say who, but I know some people that when I first came back from Oog and and Eshke, be like, yeah, man, like linguistics, and they'd just be like, nah, man, that's that's not how our speakers are. That's colonials. Now you have like like Eshke, like you guys, like these podcasts. We have like people like Ninottigino and like like all these like-minded individuals and my brother-in-law, kind of yeah, like like kind of educating people and stuff at Algoma and like at Georgian college and stuff, you can see things change. Like it's it's starting to catch on. Those same people I I talked about grammar linguistics. Now they're going, oh, okay, yeah. Like I've I've heard these terms now, so like I'm I'm comfortable with you talking about them. Whereas before they were just like, C form? No, yeah. Don't come to me with that. And now it's just like, oh yeah, like you know, C form. Like, yeah, Nino Tig talked about it, or or so and so talked about it, and so it's just that echo chamber slowly changing.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:06

Yeah, for sure. So I guess we'll start wrapping up. I don't know. Did you want to say add anything? Shull goblet.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:17

Me? Oh no, I was just thinking about that whole because I you it's non-stop here that oh, that's colonial. I shouldn't be writing the language down. And I'm like, show me the speakers, then like I'm like, at least like when I teach, I'm like, I I yeah, I like to do the fun stuff. I like to do like the easy go, like not easy going, but like the games and the you know, the whatever pieces. But I'm like, but I want these guys to start speaking, which means that yeah, we're gonna do a lot of grammar, like we're gonna do a lot of like stuff. Like, I I like I don't know how like I'm not just here to like, you know, I actually want them to take what I have and keep going with it or be inspired enough to keep moving with it. So I just was I was that's where I was in my head in that moment. Um no, I I was actually gonna ask um if you had any any awesome stories about parenting or any hilarious stories about parenting or anything that or any jokes that you had that you made up in the language.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

Oh, I'm not that good to make up jokes in the language.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

Um I got some stories. I just need to. My mom posted uh a story there, tag me in it on social media, so I'm trying to find that there. Yeah, Shgodanj there. Our little Shkodanin likes to joke. We're still in potty training mode, so lately his jokes have all been poop related. Dad says to him, Gazoggin. Shkaden responds back, gazoggin poop. His dad says, Kamitzin, Shgdaninch, Kemitsin poop. And then uh and then his dad calls out to him, Bama P. Shkaninch waves at him and calls out, Bomba poop. He's uh old jokester like that. Um maybe that one viral video we did there. It was like it was almost viral, I guess, but uh oh yeah, this is a practice that uh Rochelle uh talked to me about, and this is something that parents can do and stuff too, is storytelling to their kids. Now, this sounds like holy freak, like I'm not ready to do storytelling, but like start out small. Noun does this, noun does that, noun does this, noun does that, and then from there it's like a muscle. Like the more you work it, the more you can do complicated stuff later. Sometimes when I pick up Shkodaninch, there's that 15 minute block where it's just me and him, and so I'd improvise the story while I'm driving Shgodan inch home, and so he at least has that time block of Ojibwe. And I start off telling stories about a bear and waking up from hibernation or going out and looking for something neat and stuff like that. So there's my my time block with him. And I remember one time uh his daycare worker was mentioning how he he knows his animal noises really well, and I was like on the drive home, I was like, Shadanage, like uh on the dash and talks at a gokush, and he goes, oink, oink, oink. I was like, What the heck, man? Like, he actually understood that talks at uh himsh. Woof, woof, woof. I was like, holy free. And so we got home and I pulled out my camera and I recorded him and I went through all these there. He like he knew them all and stuff. He could he could respond. Um, and then like at the end there, I stopped recording and I said bomb up pee or something, and I hit stop, and then he was like, like, Bomb O P. I was like, oh dang, I missed that. And so I uh fired up my camera again and then got him saying in an edited in the video there, but like people really liked it and stuff, and I really I was really proud of Skidanian and stuff like that. And we got uh we got a new baby due in uh July and stuff, and so uh congrats.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:23

What yeah, I'm trying to get the balloons and the fireworks to go off.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:27

Oh congratulations! Oh thank you. Yeah, I know, but like how did you get that to get that to go?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:34

Like you were like just talented, I guess got the name there, came in a vision and stuff like that there, so like shkudan ninjas did, and so no, it was a little different. This new one is more organic. I had to I had to go out and get Shkodeninj, but this one came to me. Yeah, Shudaninj, he knows their name and he says it really well, which is encouraging. Yeah, and so talks about them and stuff like that. Um, yeah, and I remember I remember uh again Rochelle saying, like, yeah, once you have more than one, like you gotta step up your language game because uh there's all those extra VTAs you've been avoiding the the plural to singular and plural to plural and stuff. And I was like, oh dang, you're right. So that'll be my next step there. And I think for me too, also too, just for my own speaking and stuff, and just for Shkaden and just exposure. Um I'm the only one who speaks Ojibwe to him, like on a regular basis. Uh, I speak English to to Marie and stuff, and so I'm gonna be slowly working towards speaking Ojibwe to her as well. She's fine with that, which is awesome, and I really appreciate that. Uh, but it's just doesn't have the Marie because I've been speaking with English for her for so long, it's not the same with Shudanish, so gotta re reorient things there for for when I speak with her and stuff, and so that'll be probably one of my next steps there.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:08

Nice, that's awesome. I was just gonna say too, it definitely makes you have to step up your game and remember all of those different VTAs, obvious. Just a quick story I would told. I told my son, you know, my daughter's with with your mom. When you say that, you say, you know, Ouija one gush one. You have to like obviate even though it's his mother, but then he's like gush one because we always say Gusha for mother, and then he's like gush one, and then I think sometime later on he asked Emiline, are you gush one? And she's like, Yeah, yep. And he asked me too. He's like, Is Gusha and Gush one the same? And I was like, Yep, like I you know, you can't explain like uh what albeit is, so it was like when you were talking about like I was saying, uh like weed say on Bazanan, like you're walking Bazan, the dog, and then Zara's like, We'd say maw, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_06 1:12:12

Like she was hearing Sam all instead of like weed say mon. She's like, Sam all, what about basin and sam all? He was putting right and she's like going on and on.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:20

So that reminded me of a story with Skudaninch was uh I was working on something in the the kitchen, like on the laptop, and uh I love tickling scheduling, love giving him raspberries on his stomach and stuff like that. He loves teasing me and stuff, and so he comes by and he pulls up his shirt and he says, says, Meeting in tombsen, and like like like eat my belly and stuff, and I was like, I don't have any recollection of teaching him how to command that. I know I've told him to like eat his food, and I told him the word for like my stomach, but I never told him like that exact combination, I don't think. I can't remember. And so, like when it when that happened, I kind of like caught myself off guard. I put my computer away and then I went and tickled him up and stuff, and like played with him, and so I was really I was really happy about that. Uh don't have met much of the stories of some of the complicated language stuff other parents have, like like Skudanish doesn't ask about obvious.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:37

Yeah, I'm I'm one like what do you mean you're telling him about obvious?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:41

Like, I just remember you saying I just remember no, I I said like he asked, you know, beach Sada, like where's Sadae? And then I said, Oh, VG1 Gush one. And he's like, Yeah, he's like Gush one.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:53

Yeah, I remember that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:54

Yeah, I'm like, Yeah, I like I don't he doesn't get he doesn't like catch stuff like that and question it. Like if he doesn't understand something, it'll just kind of like whiz by him and whatever, but he's just not at that quite that point. And I remember hearing stories about Rochelle's kids and it's like, oh Shadinish isn't he's not that good. Or uh uh I was just in a meeting with someone who knows uh Jessica and her boys and stuff, and uh Bidaska is just uh he's getting to the point where um like Jessica is like he's he's at Jessica's level or something and speaking and and she's struggling, so giving him the speakers and stuff like that to help him get better. Um I'm just like whoa Shkodanage isn't like that there and I think it was Talk News Zagate Queer and Bosqueter, and she was just like she was like, Yeah, my boy Sinise, he's he's pretty similar to Shkodanage. I don't think he's gonna be a speaker, but he'll be a pretty good language learner, and it's just like it's like you know what? That's pretty awesome still, you know. Like maybe I can't raise a speaker, but maybe he'll get good enough to raise a speaker and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:11

And so yeah, that was optigo and a miquent wandum.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:15

Yeah, I think that was I think that was awesome.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:18

I think there's a ton that people would really learn from or take from or be able to feel resonated or motivated with from everything that you shared, and just like talking with us, and for me, like, yeah, I'm probably gonna end this and go cry. With just feeling motivated myself just to yeah, feel seen and heard, and for you to shared your your journeys this far and the amazing things that you're doing, and just kind of kick in the D, get plug in away through all like even as I navigate through a lot of BS.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:01

So yeah, Miguelch for coming on.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:04

Migwatch for for having me there. Um I'm glad I could uh contribute and do right by you guys, you know, like like I said before, like I've seen Ozawa and stuff around, you know, and like you guys at Eshkenishta Bamjik, you know, just uh really kind of um setting great examples and stuff like that, you know. Like um I'm I'm maybe like two years maybe younger than you guys, and it but like I've always kind of looked at you guys as like older siblings and just being like inspired by you guys and stuff, and then and you with Gogopwood quite you know, raising your kid and stuff. Like, I didn't think about doing it until you guys, you know, started that kind of stuff. And so yeah, I'm just like when you guys asked me, I was like, I was like, oh the freak, man, being asked to jump up to the big leagues here.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:00

So like I was I was really honored, and I was like, oh my god, I can't believe they asked. Can't believe I got like Osala would assign my book there.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:18

Yeah, I remember I remember you laughing at it, was all I was like, freak, why'd you do that? He's like, he asked me to.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:27

Yeah, what'd you ask him for his autograph for? Just kidding. Yeah, story of my life.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:36

Walking beside the sky. When and if you write your book, I will be asking for your autograph, Remwudu.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:42

Make sure you do it in front of Marie there, so she can be like, Why do you want this autograph?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:51

She'll be chomping at the bit wave to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:00

So Shudanin started ripping on me, and Marie's like, hell yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:06

You got what you got coming.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:11

Oh, that's too good.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:13

Well, you got a YouTube channel, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:15

Yeah, yeah, I got a YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:18

Um lessons on there.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:20

Yeah, I got my grammar lessons on there. Um it's under my my my legal or not even my legal name, it's like um kind of like my res name, uh Falcon McLeod, and then it's Shabizhik, S-H-A-B-O, uh, G-E-S-I-C. Um so I have my my YouTube lessons on there um for my for my lessons for for when I teach. Um it's subject to change. Um there are mistakes I've made. Like I'm just gonna come out and say there's mistakes I've made uh throughout the videos, and I'm because I teach between so many places, I'm slowly working on um uh fixing those issues that I that I have in those those lessons. So like don't get too attached to to some of the videos in there, uh, because they will change. I I would say the VAI stuff is good um for now. Uh the uh VTI stuff, like don't be afraid uh throw some of that stuff out and some of the BII stuff. I kind of I screwed the pooch on the freaking uh uh fourth person on VII. Um I kind of thought it was the same V as the VTA, like for the noun stuff, like adding or taking the plural suffix and changing the G to an end zone. Nope. So uh so those are some of my mistakes, and uh, but like I want to rectify those. Um I'm working on VTA stuff um for that, and I got some stuff that I'm really excited about and proud of. And I got like um I'm buying audio equipment and video equipment to up my game. Um I could probably grab a green screen from one of my schools and stuff. I don't know if I'm gonna do that for this next set of videos here, but like I got some equipment here. Oh, nice. It's an overhead projector.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:39

No, it's a obviously kidding.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:43

It's a prompter. Um, what it is is you hook up your camera to it that records you, and it has a built-in computer monitor into it, so you can look right at your camera and read a script, but it looks like you're looking right into the camera.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:59

Oh, nice, yeah. And so, so like an actual prompter.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like it's it's got a computer screen into it and stuff there, and so um I'm looking forward to using that in my lessons and being more because like my first few were just screen recordings, and now I'm getting into like the whole YouTube production and stuff, and but yeah, I'm hoping to do more. Uh youtuber, yeah, youtuber there.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:28

Like and subscribe.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:29

Yeah, I was just gonna say we should have asked you to if you had anything to plug, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:33

Yeah, yeah, got that. Um, I got some other stuff that I'm working on independently, you know, like a nip-cing dictionary and my own kind of nippusing uh reference grammar book or whatever.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:47

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:48

Um yeah, just to have those resources that kind of come together. Um yeah, though those are event are coming eventually.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:59

Nice.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:01

Yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:02

Then you can sign my copy once you're published.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:07

Get a stamp there's kid.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:18

I had a vision you were coming, that's why I got this game.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:24

Me, me, mean at you.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:29

Jimmy Glitch gonna send them. Thanks so much for listening to our podcast and waiting at someone to reach us by email. Find us on our salmon period podcast at gmail.com. You can find all of the links to my copy, Patreon, Instagram, etc. And artwork completed by machine man, my younger brother, Brent Bushman. Jimmy Buddhist.