S2E3: Kahawani - Mary Antone

We are very excited to share this episode with you as we speak with Kahawani, also known as Mary Antone, from the Oneida Nation People of the Standing Stone. Kahawani, another second language learner, speaks with us as she is raising her daughter in the Oneida language. Join us as we share our similar experiences and insight to Kahawani despite our different target languages.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

so many parts of yourself that that you didn't realize that you needed to heal. I think I don't know. And just like the connectedness it gives, you know, within your family or even to your ancestors. I know we've talked about this before where, you know, there's sometimes where it's just so like overwhelming and like you can't, you know, help but get caught up in teary eyed because like this is like our original language, you know, and it's so complex but it's so it's so beautiful at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Welcome to Enwaying, our sound podcast. This is a grassroots podcast intended for those raising or helping to raise children in an indigenous language.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

A special shout out to the Indigenous Screen Office for making season two of En weighing possible. Get Jimmy Gwetch a goali.

SPEAKER_04 1:17

It's a goalie it's something our listeners probably aren't used to hearing a lot. How are you? Good I already asked you already hanging in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Um well bojo you have your uh you have your little one in the background there yeah she's right beside me she's got all her dolls out so I'm assuming she's not leaving yeah well me with Yao for being willing to sit with us and talk with us and I've just been eager to hear from another mama who's fighting the good fight as you say it is it's a good fight and yeah I I let you well we're this is our our third episode I guess technically of season two um you know us but I'll let you introduce yourself if you're comfortable doing so oh yeah um say usanoda on your agonudio sloty nu get the loda on your oned agar ngnudi slotene jit new degnagle jayadat uhguilaya yeah agosana Mackenzie nayun dagits key james call it tracy yung yogu james naylawyat's lagatni tracy nayun daggets agnoha all of neun dudjits aksut leslie nailoyat sque laksotka till nayun dajet sque aksutka james nayatsquaksotka neha owana aunduan dakwe the satsu haeganadagi nishwashnagong neguyats so hello my name is Mary Kahwani is my my United name I'm bear clan I am from Onida Nation of the Thames I live on reserve I have one daughter Yeliwahawe is her traditional name McKenzie is McKenzie is her English name my parents are Tracy and James Anton I talked a little bit about my grandparents my grandparents on my mother's side I have my grandma left um and she's a fluent speaker and my grandpa my mom's side is has passed away um and on my dad's side both his parents are gone and I just talked a little bit about that I teach children um the language and currently I am the language consultant at Nishwashnagong Childcare and family center. Okay yeah Yanko Igoetch I've been eager to have you on like I said just because we just recently kind of started working in the same area expertise but space yeah we didn't know each other prior to that I don't think I knew of your dad I knew of your dad yeah seems like that's everybody knows of him um through other places that I've I've worked and um and then yeah there we got to know each other really well in the last couple of weeks and see uh with um your daughter uh raising her in uh in Oneida which is like really awesome and I just like really wanted to hear from you and there's been so many times that like we've connected on yeah the struggle so I kind of just was wanting to share some of that together so that's kind of how we met Monty yeah um I think I don't know if we ever like met like oh I am Monty I'm there like we're just kind of around each other but I knew your dad like everyone knew your dad because he was the uh he worked at the high school so indigenous student counselor and so that's how I met him and then your brother through friends but yeah and then through sports too I think we're kind of seeing each other and I know you were probably still are an awesome athlete so yeah I think so yeah I think that's how we kind of know each other and I kind of went and uh I actually I didn't even know that you're like knowing your dad I didn't know he was a fluent speaker and and just like him being like youngish like not being like an old elder like I was just really surprised and so even through high school like I didn't know that and then it wasn't how later on and then I figured out that yeah I don't even I can't even remember how I found out but I think I heard him speaking I think I was yeah I think now it's coming back to me I think uh we're at the indigenous games and you were playing fastball yeah I do remember that yeah and your dad was yeah you and and then he was talking to an somebody else I don't know I forget who he's talking to but he was just speaking in Oneida and I was like oh I didn't even know he could speak but yeah it's good like I'm glad that you're kind of getting into it and and starting to learn now too which kind of just nice segue like what what was your learning journey Mary like did you grow up speaking or for our viewers yeah like yeah I I haven't said like you're raising daughter in Oneida but yeah where did your journey start or like how did you get the spark to want to just speak all the time at home um well I've always like I come from a language family so my dad's a fluent speaker um both his parents were fluent speakers and they raised all their kids in an in a fluent household my dad he started that with us when we were young like me and my brothers I've got four brothers but I'm the youngest he started that um with us where like we he only spoke to us in a language um like he does with my daughter um but just like from going to school and you know and the the mainstream language is English so I kind of you know we kind of just lost it which kind of sucks but I always I always knew that when I had children that that's how I wanted to raise them um was with the language. So when I found out I was pregnant with McKenzie that kind of lit the fire under my butt to like okay let's go like this is it now you know um so I've always had like a little bit of a background in language even before like I had McKenzie I was teaching language at Standing Stone like our community school uh my dad retired so I started teaching then so yeah so like I've always been around it it's always been there um but not until like I had her and she was here is kind of when I kind of really buckled down and um I started the Dodati program through Fanshaw and stuff and all with her. She was four months when I started and she was there right from day one and she was there right till the last day. So I think that really helped her because then it's not only me she's hearing it from like she's not only hearing it from my dad like she's heard it from like multiple different people so it's kind of I want to normalize it for her um the best I can um because like I said like I'm not fluent. So no normalizing it for me I think is hard. It's one of the hardest parts because it's always so easy just to fall back to English all the time. You know especially in spur of the moments when you know there's a lot going on you know like it's always it's always easiest to go back to English but like I really have to you know try my try my best not to because she she needs to hear in all different aspects of what's going on you know so and then it just I've gone on from there I've just found different programming and stuff like that where I'm able to keep learning and um working with fluent speakers and stuff. So um we we are in a dire situation as for our language um Oneida we I think we're down to less than 20 speakers. So we're really in a dire situation and so I'm doing my best what I can you know to do to get into all these programs and see what I can learn and as well as you know help other people learn too recently I've always been on the other end where I'm the beginner learner and I'm always working with an advanced learner but recently I'm now the advanced learner. So I'm the one where um you know I have a student and she comes to me with all these with all of these questions and I have to you know try my best to help her. So that's it's been a learning it's been a huge learning curve for myself because you know I have to be on top of everything and I have to do that much more preparation and studying um just so that I can be prepared for you know some of the questions she may have and stuff like that. But at the same time I think being a second language learner is helpful to her because I know what she needs you know as far as like what supports and and you know the different things that have helped me learn along the way are kind of working for her too. Whereas if she were working with a fluent speaker like she might not might not get that you know that breakdown of in that help in that way. So yeah so it's just a huge learning curve but you know I have my good days and my bad days um you know with the language just like everybody else you know some days we feel like we're on top of the world the next day you know it's just like I can't do this you know but I mean it it's good it's it's fun and I enjoy it and I'm excited to see um where we go my daughter's come a long way too she still has that mental block of like being able not being able to like actually speak it but she can understand a lot. She's starting to speak more but yeah but like I think like I said I think just like normalizing it for her and giving her the praise but at the same time like not overly praising I guess if that's like if that makes sense um because like there's just like some things where like I'm proud of her for knowing it but like I don't want to keep like you know like keep pointing it out like I just want her to to normalize it so that like she says something or she does something um that I'm asking her like I want her to to realize that okay like yes you have that now now let's build on to that and see what else like we can get you to understand kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

But yeah I don't remember what the question was so no that was so good. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Just going back to um when you said you're when you got pregnant with your daughter you said that was like when you really started focusing was there like a like a spike what was like the spark like did you hear someone that motivated you or did you did something motivate you to do that or why did you feel like at that time it was just because I like for her I wanted to be able to be a better speaker and better teacher for her for the language.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

And like I said I don't know like I guess I just always had in my head that like that's what I wanted to do with my children for my children. And it just so happened at the time that was the first year that they were running the Fanshaw program and I saw it and I didn't even like I don't know like I didn't even second second guess myself or nothing. I just like applied and it wasn't until after that I was like what am I doing? Like I have a new like she you know like I said like she was four months when I like when the program started and I'm like okay what am I doing? Like this is insane like you know newborn is already like a lot um and then adding on you know a college course and not only that language right like language takes a lot like sometimes it takes a lot to understand and to get things so I'm just like what am I doing? But um I think having that base foundation like that my dad had given me years ago it helps me out so much like because there's so many things that like I just understand and I can't really explain why I understand certain things or like just certain words that I do know other people don't know and stuff like that. So it really has helped me out. So like I'm so thankful that you know that he did do that for us even though like we didn't carry on with it. But like I said now it's just all about like uncovering all of that and bringing it back up and um and just you know reminding myself that it's there and I can do this and stuff like that. But yeah like it was just yeah it's just always been something that I've always known I wanted to do. And like I said just coming from a language family it kind of made sense for me to be in language and making sure my kids have language. So yeah it was never there was never a question that I wasn't going to raise her you know the way that that I am nice oh go ahead oh yeah just so like along those lines of now you're raising her like what are some of the things that you find challenging trying to raise her in language. Just like when I don't know something um you know I get frustrated a lot with like if I can't either remember something or like I can't I just don't like don't know how to say something. Especially if I'm if I'm if I'm going at a good you know language and then I get stuck it's just like you know to get that to get to that point like where I I don't um like I don't know how to say what I want to say and I have to I do have to revert back to English. Like that's probably fresh that's one of the most frustrating things. And then I think another challenge is just like because it's it's it's just me. Like her dad knows a little bit like he knows you know like the basics that we learned in school and stuff and which is helpful. Yeah but like yeah it's most of the time it's it's me that's you know giving her a lot of the language. So um sometimes that's challenging. Like I said especially if we're really into the language and then you know it has to stop or like you know early week we have to go back to English. That's probably like one of the biggest things. But at the same time um like I said like I do appreciate like the effort that you know her dad does put into using the using the things that he does know. Because again it's helpful for her to hear not only me or like not only my dad like talking to her and stuff. I don't know like I I just like she's so much like me that like she loves the language too and she love well like I think that's why she's sitting here now right is because like she is just always so interested in what I'm doing all the time that like it just she just has that that fuel into her fire too that she that she wants to learn. Like she comes to class with me some sometimes and like she doesn't have to like because she can stay home with her dad or you know or her so like she can go over there but like sometimes she just she just wants to be you know learning and in class and like and she's so good. Like she sits quietly and she listens and stuff like that. So I think building that foundation right from when she was so small is helped it's you know helped shape her language journey too. So yeah it's awesome to see and I like it and to see that she's interested in it because I know like especially kids like they just again again English is so easy that you know it's it's a lot easier for them just to say I don't want to learn on night end I just want to I want to be able to speak English like you know with my friends and stuff like that. So yeah but I I think again one again one of the biggest challenges I I see for her is going to be like who is she going to talk to you know we have a few you know parents who are raising their children in the same way um but they're not close in the same to the same age you know they're all variety of all these variety of different ages and stuff so um I think that's gonna be one of our biggest challenges too is to is to have somebody for her to talk to when um when it comes time where she can hold a conversation and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

But I guess we'll when we get there like you know we'll see you we'll see what what we can do about that right so every time you speak Mary I'm like it's so powerful and you like always just like reignite so many things in me with why I was like I gotta get her on and share that passion that you have and that you're so grounded and you got so much good stuff to say that like it's so good. It's so nice to hear like that perspective and like the strategies that you have in your mind that how you're gonna fight through those things and considering all of those things too because like we also I think share similar challenges in the sense of like you know our children are comprehend the language really really well but been difficult trying to get them to use it when we're immersed in English and it's always the fallback because that's what their peers or people around them are speaking and whatnot and um trying to like work through that or stay motivated to keep moving through that. So yeah it's just like so nice to hear the way that you speak about her and like how you perceive her perspective and what she enjoys and making that a joyful part of like your experience together as you learn which sometimes I forget about so yeah I'm like getting goosebumps and getting like bringing out all the emotions as for usual like holy cow it's so good uh it's so nice to hear those things and yeah you kind of already touched on a couple of them but is there anything that sticks out for you things that you didn't expect within your household learning the language are you revitalizing and reclaiming your sound that's positive that you didn't see in your future when you began learning that first day that you were like oh I need to step up my game I guess like I guess the healing journey of it all when you think about language I get like you just never think that it's gonna help you heal so many parts of yourself that that you didn't realize that you needed to heal.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

I think I don't know and just like the connectedness it gives you know within your family or even to your ancestors. I know we've talked about this before where you know there's sometimes where it's just so like overwhelming and like you can't you know help but get caught up in teary eyed because like this is like our original language you know and it's so complex but it's so it's so beautiful at the same time and like I love the fact that like I'm learning so much in that you know like I can you know carry a conversation and stuff like that. So like the healing journey of it all has been a huge thing for me. I think prior to me learning I definitely wasn't the same person that I am now um for sure like I can I I will 100% say that like I before prior to learning like actually taking everything serious and and learning the language um it has really you know helped me heal all those all those things inside me that like I that I didn't know that even existed or that I needed help with or stuff like that. But you know just like I don't even know why like it you know it it it's like that you know yeah just like it's just so powerful like our language just opens up so much for us that you know it's I I can't I don't I don't even know how to how to say it. But um it's yeah and I think just like the connectedness it gives us like within our families um you know like I said like Mackenzie and my dad are so close and you know and I I think a big part of that is because of the language you know and like right from when I found out I was pregnant it was you know I told my dad like you know like I I want her to be you know all language like you know like that's all I want like if that's all I want you to speak to her and so that's all he does right is he speaks um the language to her and and it's and it's cool to see them interact because he just gives it to her flat out like he's not you know giving her he's not breaking stuff down for her he's not you know using simple term or like that he's giving it to her you know exactly how he would speak to you know an elder or like you know somebody else who's fluid so and it's and it's cool to see her when she um responds to him or she does whatever he asks her to do or you know stuff like that. It's so cool to see that like she knows all of that and like it's just like how, you know, but I mean like you know all of our babies before they come here you know we're told that you know they interact with our ancestors and they um they communicate with them and stuff. So um it's like it's been like the coolest thing I think ever to see is is her and my dad and when they're interacting and and stuff because it's um it's so powerful um just just how much she knows. Like and like I said like I there's like some things where like I have no idea like you know what he's saying to her and yet she knows right so it's just like yeah. So you're saying like sometimes you don't know what he's saying but she does yeah well there yeah there's times when you know like or like you know I'll get bits and pieces of it yeah get the full you know whatever he's the the full statement or whatever's going on and like she and she will like you know and stuff so it's um yeah I she she just she amazes me like all the time because like I know and I am like I I wish I could just have her brain you know just so I can start all over again you know and just like start all over and just get that you know that clean slate of you know just right from the beginning learning and because I you know like I hope one day she doesn't have to follow you know all this color system that we have and stuff. I just want her to be able to speak you know and I know that like that's the biggest thing for fluent speakers right is that like they don't understand the way that we learn now because like they never had to you know like they they were just spoken to and and that was it. Like they weren't told that you know things are blue and red and purple or whatever right like you know so um and that's how like I want her to be like so she doesn't have to stop and think about all these other colors and how to change stuff. So yeah so I I really encourage her and I and get her over there to see my dad as much as you know as much as I can just because you know he's the best teacher like you know he's been doing it his whole life that's like I said he grew up in a fluent household like all of his siblings grew up that way and like he didn't know English until he went to school you know and then even then he says that whenever they would come home English stayed at the door you know it was right back into and I'd have you know right until he would go right until he would leave for school the next day so I wish we could have that you know but I guess working towards it too is always you know is always a positive too um for us so yeah oh my god yeah that's awesome some other things for me too was like other family that don't really speak have started they don't speak fluently but like they start using more even saying goodbye saying hello like did you find that too yeah um I found like my like I said my grandma on my mom's side is um a fluent speaker but she she made the promise to herself that she wouldn't teach her children just because of what she went through. So they so none of my mom or my aunts and uncles on my mom's side um know any of the language or you know hardly any of it. But I found that like my mom really is she she's trying you know like she she uses you know the the basic words with McKenzie too and she's picked up quite a quite a bit more phrases and stuff over the years. My oldest nephew was raised like McKenzie too where he was getting a lot of the language but the issue with that was that once he left my mom and dad's like they weren't continuing on when he would go home. So they were just continuing on speaking to him in English. So he lost a lot of it um because he was he was pretty much like McKenzie too where he's understood a lot and now he's lost a lot just because he hasn't had that both household kind of thing. So so yeah so I and that just like shows me too that like how easily it can be lost you know and I just got to tell myself every day like you know because there's some days where I feel like I didn't use enough language with her. Right. So I feel like that some days and usually those are the busy days but like at the same time you know I just have to keep reminding myself that like you know tomorrow will be a better day. You know you know we're like you said we're just gonna keep fighting the good fight and putting in our our efforts and doing the best that we can.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

So yeah oh my gosh. And like even like meeting you and being able to talk and hear those things from you just like every day or when we get the chance to have a little chat or whatever it just like it's been so good for me to refuel in remembering that as well that like some days I'm down on myself because I didn't speak enough or I wonder if I didn't speak enough or whatnot. But then there's times like where she'll say a bunch of words just on her own or my son will say a bunch of words just on his own and and I'm like okay no like I am doing an okay job like that is something is happening here and like I don't need to to keep on going like you said um yeah sorry you just you're making me speechless because I'm just like I feel so sane and I'm like I'm like I'm not gonna cry on this one I'm not gonna cry on this one crying enough just like holy cow like I'm just feeling like it's so nice to like it's just so powerful like I said like even though that we don't have the same heritage language or the same mother tongue I'm like yeah it's so nice to see like we're kind of like um that quote you're in your canoe and I'm in my canoe but we're not crossing but we're we have a similar experience and whatnot. It's so cheesy but that's how I do you have any other advice for parents that are wanting to raise their kids in their own target language whether that be Nishna Binwin umgway home way is that how you say Oneida yeah sorry butcher butchered that um or their own target language.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

I don't think I don't think there is any easy way to do it. You know it's just you just got to do it. You have to make that commitment though to it and I think that's the hardest part for a lot of people is making that commitment to it and really committing to your learning and your child's learning.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

I know and okay I just I just need one second I scot her something of course of course yeah yeah take your time I like I said I'm like trying not to cry just like feel this is just really cool to experience honestly like I just awkward we can re ask the question.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Yeah so uh yeah like I said just like you have to really fully commit to to it the whole thing like as a whole like you can't Just be something that you only learn or you only do um, you know, at work or at school or whatever. Like you have to really, you know, embed it into your entire lives. Like I said, I I work in town, so like Mackenzie and I usually have, you know, a good nice solid half hour drive-in and drive home every day, you know, and when on those days when she is up for talking, you know, that's when I I throw questions at her about like, what is your name? You know, what is your clan, you know, stuff like that, just so that she's hearing it and you know, and she's and like I give her the answers or like she can throw the answers out there too at me sometimes. And I just help her to put it into, you know, a sentence and how she would how she would use answer it properly, answer the question, stuff like that. So like I think just taking advantage of, you know, any little moments like that, you know, is is helpful, especially when you can kind of get that one-on-one if you're able to um with your child, or but yeah, I think the biggest thing is that is that whole commitment piece. Um, and I find that's really hard for our people. I know I'm I speak from the Ony Daga people, um, and you know, just what I've the people that I've come across and who are trying to learn, but they don't understand that that it's more than just you know, two hours when you're in class, you know, you like you really need to put in that time, you need to practice because it's not, you know, you're not gonna understand it in just that two hours. Like you have to really, you know, use it. Like if you that's what this like they say, if you don't use it, you know, you lose it. So, and that's exactly that's exactly how it works. Um, so that's like a huge, huge thing. And I think again, a lot of that comes down to our traumas within, you know, our own um and uh within our own selves is having that commitment because yeah, like I just there's I've just seen so many people who who are so committed and committed, and then they just fall off and then you know, and then and then you don't see see them again or you don't hear from them again. Like, you know, in the language world, you know, I'm I'm speaking um from yeah, so that that's like one of the huge things is is fully committing yourself and your children into it. Um, and like I said, even on those bad days, still, you know, still at least giving some kind of effort, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:27

You talked about um learners uh knowing the colors. The like the adult learners need to know the colors. Could you explain what those are?

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Um yeah, so like in Oneida, like our pronominals, so like we um I don't like I don't know how you guys say I don't know how it's so different, it's so different because our language, our languages are so different, but um for a lot of words, like you can either change it from he, she, it, or if you're talking about multiple people, you know, stuff like that. So we have different a color system um depending on who and what you're talking about. If you're talking to person to person, if you're talking um about something else in yourself, you so our systems are set up in colors to make it easier for second language learners, but that's a new system that just came um to to help us. Um, like I said, like a lot of our fluent speakers were just they were just kind of thrown in there, right? Like they just like English, like, yeah. So like I know um I like I said I'm in a class um and my dad is our fluent speaker. So he was the other day, he was trying to understand the color system and he was just like, so he like looked at a word and he was like, Can you change us to purple? And I was like, what? He was like, Can you change us to purple? Like he has no idea between the different colors and what they mean. He just threw a random color on it. He came purple, and I was like, um, I was like, Yeah, if you're talking to person to person, like you know, he didn't need it, like still didn't understand, you know, like so um they're just wired differently than we are. Um, but yeah, so it's just a tool that helps us learn a lot easier and how to switch out who you're talking about and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 34:18

Yeah, just adding on that last part. Like I always say that to um like students or people who are like beginning to learn or who don't have an idea about language, where I'm like, you speak English, are you able to like sit down and teach a grammar lesson on like adverbs or adjectives or what this conjunct means or what uh like all these like a dependent versus dependent. Like, I'm like, just because we speak um fluently English doesn't mean we know the grammar breakdowns, right? So sometimes we forget like I know that that's like a a common thing where it's hard to explain why, and then I was like, Yeah, because you know, they grew up, they didn't have like grammar lessons, they just knew it, right? Yeah, um, but yeah, that's funny because I was gonna bring up the same thing, like I knew what you're talking about, but just for like the listeners to be like blue, blue, red, purple, which I don't know. I think Monty, did you wasn't there something about that? Um didn't you get that idea from?

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Yeah, I had a friend who was uh Mohawk teacher and learner, and she had seen she'd showed me the different colors of how they add things to the words and how they change meanings, and so in an ishna bemoan our words kind of work similar in a way, like we just add things to the words, so that you know I found that really helpful, and I started implementing that and kind of sharing that, and so I see more people in the Isnaabe world, Isna Bamewan world doing that now, just color coding everything just to because it stands out that like for adults, like our brains work that way. We need to we need to see that obvious difference or else we don't pick it up and yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:05

Are there any um if you do have any, no pressure, if you don't, are there any tips or strategies or ways that you overcome feeling overwhelmed when you're learning, like say you get pressure or anything? Is there any like tips or tricks or things that you try and use? Or if there's not that's okay too. But anything you can think of at the top of your head or um not really.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Um it's just I guess just taking that time to for yourself and to rest. Um, because learning is learning the language is exhausting and it's tiring. Um and sometimes you just need to sleep. Um like you know, it sounds so like not helpful, but like, but at the same time, like it's one of the biggest things that I found that helps me is to just kind of like take that step back and and realizing, you know, that that it's a journey. Um, you know, it's not it's not something that you know we're fully gonna understand in a day or a week or you know, even a year. Like it's gonna take, you know, it's gonna take some time for us to to fully understand. And even then, you know, we still won't understand everything. But yeah, and I think just having those language people um within your circle are are really helpful too, because they know they know what you're what you're what you're right, what it feels like, because it's not a feeling that you can really, really describe or talk about with somebody who does who has never experienced something like that. Like I said, like I I work in town and you know, I'm I'm in an organization where there's only a few of us who understand that with you know within our in our building there. Um, so when we try and talk about it to somebody else, it's always, oh, I feel so bad. But it's just don't feel bad for me. I don't want you to feel bad, but I don't want you to understand coming from, you know, I want you to understand like how much effort goes into learning the language, and that it's not just um, it's not just about picking up a book or you know, or sitting in a class for a couple of hours and understanding everything. It's just like there's so much more that goes with our language, it's it's our culture, it's you know, our ceremonies, it's it's everything, right? So like if you want to learn the language, you're you're learning everything, you know. And like I said, I think that's the huge part and why it's a healing journey and why it takes so much out of you when you I don't want to say like you're forced to heal when you learn the language, but it's it it almost is like that, you know, because if you're not healing, you're not going to get it. And I think that's why it's really hard for a lot of people, um, is because you realize a lot of things and you realize a lot of things that you don't need in your life when you do start that language journey, because like there's, you know, like I said, like I was a totally different person, you know, before I started this, but I would never want to change, change that either, you know. But in both in both ways. Like I I, you know, like the person I was before, I wouldn't change the experiences I had or nothing like that, what I experienced, or nothing like that, because it made me, you know, who I am. And in one way or another, it made me who I am. Um, and then healing from all of that and healing from stuff, it just made me a better person. And I get to I get to realize and see, you know, um, certain things that I don't need within my life, and that like I don't, and certain things like I I don't want for my daughter. So um it's all it's all like I say, it's all connected. It's all, you know, and you start this and then the whole all all these things start opening up for you, but they're all positive things and they're all good things that come come to you when you when you do let yourself fully invest in in this. Yeah. Like I said, I've just seen so many people who who have started and then that, and my thinking is that's probably where they got to, right? Is that they were kind of having to deal with some traumas that they're not ready to to deal with yet. Um, and that's you know, and that's not for everybody, right? Like some people, you know, have more traumas than other and stuff like that. So um it's not something that you can necessarily, you know, kind of be like, well, you need to heal. Like, no, you can't say that to somebody else either. Like, you know, you have to let them make that realization for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Yeah. I see that. Like I've seen that too, and you know, the Snap Amoun world where you know, same thing. People kind of start learning and maybe you know, they think they're ready, and then it's not until they're actually in it and learning, then they're like, oh no, like what do I have to do? Like I have to look at myself differently, and all of that. Everything you just said, yeah. Um as far as like uh learning too. Uh is there any like resources in Oneida for Oneida learners that is kind of your go-to that's out there?

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Um yeah, I know that's like the biggest thing, right? Is that I think just spent taking some time to be able to sit down with elders and and get you know, get down to the nitty-gritty of it, like because some things just can't be taught, you know, through the books and and stuff like that. Some of it has to come from um the fluent speaker themselves. You know, and also like our language is not gonna be the same, you know, as our grandparents had and our ancestors had. Um, but also like our our world is changing too. So like it makes sense that it's not gonna be the same. But I think still, I think understanding like where everything comes from and and stuff like that is is just as important too. Like, because there's so many words that like we just lost because we don't use them anymore, or they're only used in ceremonies. Um, and we've lost those too. So again, you know, like it's it's always hard. But yeah, no, I think just like being able to sit down with a fluent speaker is probably like one of the best ways to learn. And like I said, like I, you know, recently became the mentor for somebody, and I'm realizing how how I guess important like we are as you know, the ones who are a bit more advanced than you know, the the beginner learners, um, just how important we are to our language. Because like I said, like we know those strategies of of how to learn that our elders just they just can't. Like I said, they did that's just not how they grew up. So I think, you know, finding a speaker, a second language learner um too is just as important as as finding an elder um to help you learn those little tricks that you know that they can't explain to you, but like I can explain because you know, I've I've seen it, I've done, you know, I've done the work to to learn these things. So but if we're talking about like an actual like resource, um like I don't know, I think just maybe the curriculum that like was, you know, that's being it's like not even completed just because like we've had so much just go on that but I think that curriculum um that we have going that uh a different um a number of different programs are using is is probably gonna be our key to to getting us some speakers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Are people is it like accessible to anybody or do you um do people have to take a certain program?

SPEAKER_01 44:20

I'm not sure. Um I don't like I know I've gotten it through the same curriculum through um a number of different programs. So I don't know if it's actually accessible just to for anybody, but at the same time it's not it wouldn't be helpful just for somebody to walk in and be like, hey, like can I have this curriculum? You know what I mean? Like you kind of need a teacher or like you know, a mentor or somebody to help you work through it too. Um, because it's it's just like going into into you know a math classroom and saying, Hey, can I have the curriculum? You know, like you need that teacher to help you guide you, right? So um it's the same thing, like you still need that some that person to work with you and stuff. So um, I don't think that just anybody coming along and asking for the curriculum would be helpful either. But if you could find somebody to help you work with it, then yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

Um yeah, it's kind of a weird one to ask now because it's like I don't everything you're saying is just so amazing. But is there any funny words, funny stories, humors, things, whether it be with your daughter or with your family or something that happened to you in your own personal learning journey or with us? I don't know, just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Well, Mackenzie's always funny.

SPEAKER_04 45:45

Um she's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

I was gonna say um I think we have what like when you were trying to say, was it ghostgos? The word for pig in the classroom. Yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, she's my little mini teacher. She really enjoyed, like I said, she's such she's so much like me. Um that I just can't help but laugh because like she is she's she tries to be a little mini teacher within her within her classroom, well within the whole school. Yeah. Um, but other than that, um probably like I think going back to um how like our fluent speakers learn. My dad would always say that whenever his grandpa would be with sitting with other older men, he would be sitting under the table listening, and that's why he knows so many of of the older older stories, older, you know, terms and stuff like that. And so he says um all the time that that's why Mackenzie's like that, and is because like she's you know, she's always listening, and it's and it's true.

SPEAKER_04 46:58

Um, yeah, I don't yeah, no, and that's some context. Yeah, we were reading, well, I wasn't someone was reading in the classroom a book about barnyard animals, and I don't know, something about it's a like a repetitive thing, and I was like trying to be helpful and being like, Hey, I'll talk to you in your in your own language, and I think I know no word for big, I think it's squisquis. And she like looked up at me and she's like, No, and she said, How do you say it? And I was like, Darn it, like here I am trying to be like helpful, and I'm just because it's it's yeah, oh, there you go. Yeah, um, it's kind of similar to Nishnapeman. We say quo kush, so that's why I remember it saying like like um chicken is like j j right or jit or something. See I don't know because we have like bakwan. I remember having a conversation with someone being like, oh, it's like kind of like so the way that they sound, right? Or I don't know, anyways. So those were sticking in my head, and I thought that that was gonna be, you know, it's funny. She's she's so sweet. Um, it's been awesome um having her as a little friend. Um, I didn't know if you had any anything else uh you want to share there, but uh yeah, some context to being taught. It's not the first time, it won't be the last, that you know, a little one tells you I was saying something wrong. Um yeah, but I I don't know if there's anything else that you um are just dying to share or get off your chest or anything else, anything else that you wanted to say before we kind of wrap up here, or if that's everything that's okay too.

SPEAKER_01 48:52

No, I'm just I'm I mean, I just want to say thank you. Um, yeah, you know, because you've helped me out just as much as you know, I've helped you out. Um, and like you said, just knowing somebody who's trying to do the same thing as as I am. Um, you know, it's especially somebody I can talk to, you know, every day kind of thing. Um, like I said, we have a couple of families around here who who are trying, you know, the same thing, but um just not able to, you know, talk to them every day kind of thing. So just talking about you know the struggles and stuff like that. And like you said, just it really helps out knowing that it's not just me, um, you know, that feels that way sometimes uh when it comes to you know our own learning or you know, parenting and stuff like that. So it's been it's been good. And so I I appreciate you know what you guys are doing too with your with your own families there and um and just how special it is and and the feeling it brings to your families. It's always nice.

SPEAKER_04 49:55

Yeah, you beat me to the punch because I was gonna say, like, your community and your family is so lucky to have you and like you're such a a powerful matriarch, and like yeah, I'm just like so glad that our paths crossed and that you know we got to meet because I'm like, whoa, she's a gem, like you're you're really, really special. And I'm just like everybody's so lucky to be able to have you as a learner and as a speaker and as a matriarch in your communities, like I said. So I just want to say me with for being willing to be on or to come and chat with us. Um, this is we I think are really only doing this so others feel the same way as well, so that we can kind of like grow in your communities across the river from Monty's. Um so this is your guys's, which I didn't I don't think I said yet. So yeah, Monty, you probably speak to that better than I could, but yeah, it's kind of cool to to be able to speak to someone who shares um the space. Uh yeah, same yeah, go ahead, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Yeah, I just want to say me guys for coming on. I'm glad you're you're in this journey and I everything you said resonates and I feel it too, everything, all the struggles and all the positives that come from it too. And yeah, I'm just really happy you came on.

SPEAKER_04 51:21

Oh I hope you have an awesome long weekend. And um yeah. Jimmy Gwitch Yanko. Oh will I bless you on Tuesday? Yeah, uh-huh. Good, good.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

I'm glad Jimmy Gwitch, Gob Zindal, yeah, Ken away. Thanks so much for listening to our podcast and weighing our sound. To reach us by email, find us at our sound period podcast at gmail.com. You can find all of our links to buy me a coffee, Patreon, Instagram, etc. at our link tree, which is link tr period e slash nweig dot our sound. Our theme song was done by myself, Neen Mushkokabut Kwe, and artwork completed by Nishime, my younger brother, Brent Boshan. Jimmy Gwitch.