S2E9: Alex & Camille(Sine) Firethunder

Alex FireThunder is the Chair / Director of the Lakota Studies Department at Oglala Lakota College. He resides in Kyle, SD on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. As an enrolled member of the Oglala Lakota Nation, Alex brings a wealth of experience to his role, holding a BSW in Social Work, MA in Lakota Leadership, and a Lakota Language Certificate from Oglala Lakota College. As a seasoned educator, Alex has taught Lakota to pre-K on up to the college level for the past ten years. A musician and NAMMY award-winning song composer, he founded Hóyeya, a platform for promoting Lakota language content. Alex believes in the transformative power of language in shaping a strong Lakota identity which is reflected in how he and his wife raise their three beautiful children in the language.

Camille Sine-Firethunder is a mother, wife, language learner, former teacher, and content creator for the Lakota/Dakota Language platform HOYEYA.  Camille is an enrolled tribal member of the Sisseton Wahpeton Oyate and currently resides in Kyle, South Dakota with her husband Alex and their three children. After being a classroom teacher for seven years, Camille is now a stay-at-home-mom. She has recently become known for her children's show published on YouTube called "Language For Littles with Thunwin Camille". Her show draws inspiration from the YouTube sensation Miss Rachel, but rather than focusing on English speech development, Camille puts her attention to the underserved and underrepresented Lakota / Dakota children and their Lakota/Dakota speech development and acquisition. Her life's mission is to be a good mother and wife and to learn and raise her children in the Lakota and Dakota language. 

linktr.ee/enweying.oursound

Many people have reached out to ask where they can donate or support revitalization efforts. This link leads to our Link Tree which has a Patreon as well as "Buy me a Coffee" where you can donate to our families cause and initiatives we do to support learning in the home and across our communities. Miigwech

Transcript

SPEAKER_08 0:00

I remember you mentioning it um especially because I started my language learning in my motherhood journey. It feels like I'm fighting biology all the time, um trying to retain what I learned and practice what I learned because I know with like pregnancy and postpartum, like literally like your brain releases hormones to make you forget everything so you can focus on your baby. And it's just like, oh my god, like I just remember like crying and like telling Alex, like I just can't remember, you know, and it's just like that was like a huge unexpected difficulty. It's just like I wish I would have really learned a lot more before I had a baby because it it is like post like mom brain is a real thing, postpartum pregnancy, all of that. It just really plays a big part in I'm like trying to learn a language and speak it and teach it, all while that's going on. So that's been a true and real difficulty as a woman trying to raise children in a language that I'm learning at the same time as them.

SPEAKER_14 1:29

Our sound podcast. This is a grassroots podcast intended for those raising or helping to raise children in an indigenous language.

SPEAKER_10 1:39

A special shout out to the Indigenous Screen Office for making season two of En Weighing possible. Get Jimmy Gwitch.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

So we have some very special guests today. Alex and Camille, who are Lakota and Quota learners and parents currently living in South Dakota. You'll hear their story once we start the podcast. But yeah, I'm really I'm just really excited about um these guests coming on and the knowledge that they can share and their experience and so how I kind of found them, I guess, was a friend uh shared on Facebook um there was a video of their one of their children speaking speaking Lakota.

SPEAKER_07 3:04

And so, you know, being uh we're doing the same thing one, you know, that really interested me, so I kind of I I clicked on, you know, who was sharing what you know when you have to go through the Facebook shares and I found I found their names as their parents what I originally messaged was Camille I think because I was trying to balance out, you know, or guess and I think that's what I can balance out if you want I've been trying to balance out like you know male and female guests And so I message her to ask her if she wanted to be on the podcast you know being a mother and getting those perspectives is important to have and then she messaged me back, she said I think my husband I think my husband should be on too because we work together and we couldn't be doing this without each other and I was like okay yeah so this is the first time that we have two people on at the same time both parents so I messaged I messaged Alex about it and he was gonna go and so we got in contact and this will be the first time that we have two guests on with us at the same time so far within all of our seasons, so I'm really excited for that different dynamic interviewing wise. Um also really excited that we need parents who are doing the exact same thing as you and I, that they're very I'm not sure, but what I'm assuming is that you know having similar experiences just in regards to what you mentioned having the perspectives of both of them at the same time. That's really cool. So I'm really excited to get started here. With another family with the parents of a family in an immersive immersive household.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

Ohjo.

SPEAKER_06 6:03

Good to see you guys. Meet you virtually listening to uh listen to a couple of you guys' podcasts.

SPEAKER_11 6:12

Oh yeah, your faces.

SPEAKER_06 6:16

Well, my wife's trying to log into Zoom as well, um separately so that we can like be on mute and not be trying to you know fight over the the mic. Um but she's uh we also we don't have a sitter or anything for the kids, so we might have some interruptions with the kids and things throughout, but we'll we told them to be on their best behavior. Yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_07 6:40

That's fine. It's um like we want this to be authentic as possible, anyways. And this is what the podcast is about. This is what this is all about. So you welcome it, but we can also totally edit anything out if you if you're looking for that too. If you're like, can you cut out da-da-da? It's no problem at all.

SPEAKER_06 6:57

Yeah, I figured I might add to it, like kids come in and we scold them in Lakota or something.

SPEAKER_11 7:08

Perfect.

SPEAKER_07 7:11

Yeah, we're also same house, separate mics for the same reason.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

How do you say hello in Lakota?

SPEAKER_06 7:27

Yeah, uh how? How? How uh for met for melt and uh women would say huh. Okay that's where the stereotype howl comes from. Like that uh Hollywood.

SPEAKER_04 8:05

How how how you change it? How do we have it?

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Boozoo.

SPEAKER_05 8:23

Um just did it at one spot.

SPEAKER_07 8:43

No worries at all.

SPEAKER_05 8:45

We'll see how it goes.

SPEAKER_07 8:48

Oh, I don't know, I don't know if you've met Ozawa or M Monty.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

So I just yeah, I messaged like both of you guys because I saw a video on Facebook, and um I forget who the person was. It was someone that tagged you guys anyway, and they're like, Oh, my friend, their child speaks Lakota, and there's a video of them speaking, and I was like, Who is that? So I clicked on it and then found you guys as the parents and messaged you guys if you want to be on, and yeah, so I'm glad you guys are uh able to share and share your story and just grateful.

SPEAKER_06 9:33

Yeah, I think that was uh Damien Webster that shared that. So good, really good friend of mine and uh a friend of ours, and really interesting connections with him because he's uh obviously Seneca from New York. I grew up in New York, and then his kids are from Sistin, their mom's from Sistin, and Camille's from Siston. So a lot of a lot of just funny connections there. Nice. Well, we appreciate you uh yeah, we appreciate you reaching out to us and uh learning. It's always good to learn about other people doing uh you know what we're doing, uh especially with more experience, um, because we'll we'll talk about it later, but you know it's it's it's uh few and far between. And so it's it's like uh it's always a breath of fresh air to meet other people, even from different tribes and other languages who are uh you know raising children uh in the language. So we we uh send our gratitude for uh having us on and the invitation and and new new friends and colleagues and relatives.

SPEAKER_07 10:43

So my husband. And it's me, which we're like really honored that you're willing to share time and you know welcome, like or yeah, share your your family's home life and your stories and your experiences and your knowledge with us because it's uh yeah, really important work that we're all doing. And it's so nice to be able to meet other families who think like, okay, we're not alone, whether it's the same language or not. Um it helps it helps just push a little bit further when it gets tough and difficult. Um so we extend that back to you and reciprocate that gratitude as well. Cause yeah, it's um it's really great learning from others and learning about your world perspective and how uh how you see the world and how you try and navigate and this type of work. So yeah. I'm Mushko Gobwitz or MLine, it's up to you what you you want to call me, and um and yeah, um, you're saying you're from Alex, you're from New York area.

SPEAKER_06 11:52

Um, so I grew up in upstate New York. Um my dad's from over there, uh not native, uh, but he uh he he really has a passion for our culture, our way of life, and our people. And uh he met my mom out here in South Dakota, and uh yeah, they the rest is history, I guess. But uh they uh my parents had me in New York and then uh they bring me back, you know. We we made the trip out to South Dakota every summer for you know ceremonies. Uh my parents started a powwow vending business, and I got to grow up going to powows throughout the country and became a powwow dancer and singer, and uh yeah, so um so I grew up yeah, upstate New York, but uh soon as almost as soon as I could, I moved home. But uh yeah, that's that's my story. Um I I moved home and have a kind of a different uh perspective of things than a lot of people uh here on the res. You know, I a lot of people are here trying to get out, get out, and I I wanted to come back. So you know it's a little different.

SPEAKER_07 13:02

But how would you Camille? Um, or what do you what should I how would you like to be called? Yeah, Camille's fine.

SPEAKER_04 13:12

Yeah, Camille.

SPEAKER_08 13:14

Yeah, you can call me two week, which is good.

SPEAKER_06 13:17

I mean it's Auntie. That's it. That's her character on her show.

SPEAKER_08 13:23

My altar ego. My stage name. Um, yeah, yeah, Camille. Um, I'm originally from Sistin, South Dakota, which is um in the northeastern corner in South Dakota. It's like right by Minnesota, North Dakota. Um, yeah, that's pretty much where I grew up. End of story. But um I'm um I was a teacher, a classroom teacher for a few years. And uh then um Alex and I met, we got married, we started having kids right away, and then I've just been living the stay-at-home mom life, um, learning the language along with my kids. And that's been my life, seriously, just for like the last four years, just consuming every ounce of my energy, just momming and language learning.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

You did you grow up around language or having language at school?

SPEAKER_08 14:31

Um a little bit. I've had exposure to the language. Um, the last in my family, the last um first um language speaker was my grandmy grandma, my cushi, my mom's mom. She spoke only Dakota until she was eight years old when she started going to day school, and that's when she learned. But then the transfer didn't happen to my mom, and then obviously I didn't I didn't learn Dakota either. But you know, like at social events, I felt like I heard Dakota a lot, and or not a lot, I wouldn't say a lot, but I've heard it um basic stuff. I knew like numbers, colors, animals, things like that. Um, but other than that, not really. Um I didn't grow up hearing it too much.

SPEAKER_07 15:16

But yeah, I'm in the same boat as you. I don't know how much you know about myself either. But I'm in the same boat. Like my grandparents were fluent speakers, it didn't get trans, like the transmission didn't happen between them and my father, and then um picked it back up, and then me speaking has kind of brought some words back for him and whatnot. But I've been learning inside my kids and was stay-at-home mom for four years and just studying, slash listening to as much as I could, slash trying to go and see elders just trying to learn with them as they were growing up. So that's I feel very validated by knowing someone else is going through what I was going through.

SPEAKER_08 15:57

So this was really awesome. Because I I did listen to a couple of your guys' podcasts, and I was like, oh my gosh, yes, that same like valid game. And we noticed some similarities too between me and Alex and you guys.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Here we go.

SPEAKER_11 16:19

It's gonna be good.

SPEAKER_07 16:21

And this is actually our first time we've ever had two people on hanging on Talk. Yeah, I don't we've never had like, so this is this is awesome. This is new for us as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

What about you, Alex?

SPEAKER_06 16:34

How did you grow up around language or so because I grew up you know at the Powas and ceremonies and things like that, I had you know, kind of heavily in the culture. I was exposed to the language a lot. Um, my mom is a she is a first language speaker. Um, but she because we were in New York and you know, she was raising us with uh with my dad and my dad's side of the family. Um, she was the only one who was a speaker around. So she didn't have anyone to talk to. And I don't know, she just didn't, for whatever reason, didn't take it upon herself to talk to us in Lakota more than just words and things like that. So she'll be like, you know, even if she's speaking English, she'll say, like, ee, that shunka is just really barking over there, you know, something like that. Um, so yeah, like similar to to uh Camille, I grew up with a lot of vocabulary, uh, but not the ability to speak. Uh I grew up with a lot of the songs, and uh yeah, so I would hear prayers and things like that in the language. So a lot of, you know, if I knew full sentences, it was from songs or from prayers. Um, but typically it was just words, and um I guess some commands and things from my mom, like inach neil, like hurry up. She would, you know, she would say things like that a lot. And then my dad would pick up on things like that too. Or he learned how to say, like, I want coffee and things like that. So um, and then uh in addition to all that, my mom and my dad split up when I was three, so pretty young age. So I wasn't even really raised by my mom, uh, more so by my dad and my dad's side of the family. So um, all that to say, my upbringing around the drum and singing and prayer and all that, I would say lay it laid a good foundation for me to want to learn because that was one of my three goals in in the beginning when I wanted when I started learning was to understand all the songs. You know, what am I singing about? You know, what what are we saying when we sing these songs? And uh yeah, so it it definitely laid a good foundation for me when I started taking my first class. I was like learning words and then recognizing them from the song and then uh putting them together and making sense out of it. And even to this day still, I'm like I'll learn a grammar pattern and be like, hey, that's that's in that song. I recognize that, I know that grammar. So that's kind of my uh my background and upbringing around the languages was through that, but not not definitely not immersive or anything like that.

SPEAKER_07 19:18

Yeah, my my mom's non-native as well, and she just taught me all the bad words that she my dad and her would use with one another. And they also split when I was three, so I'm gonna. Um well, I I you kind of already introduced yourselves, but did you want to take a moment to, you know, if you want to use your if you want to use um, you can help me if I mess this up at Laho Lakota or Lakes?

SPEAKER_06 19:45

Lakota. Dakota.

SPEAKER_11 19:51

Dakota.

SPEAKER_06 19:53

I like Mr.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

I'll go first. That's okay.

SPEAKER_07 19:56

Sure, yeah. You can just let us know who you are in English and in your language, and we can just open it up right there.

SPEAKER_06 20:02

Uh me daku lila wecha Alex Fire Thunder Amachia be uphead wahi. Uh New York El Matumpi naimanchake. Um, my name is Alex Firethunder. I uh am Oglala Lakota. I come from the Firethunder uh family from Shkokba, which is translated to down below, but it's the community is actually called Yellow Bear Canyon, uh between Allen and Kyle, South Dakota. And uh I I was born and raised in upstate New York and uh moved home when I was a young man to pursue um college education from my tribe, my tribal college, and to learn the language. And now I reside here um 12 years later with my wife, and we're raising our children and doing the best we can to raise our children in the Lakota language. And uh yeah, we just we cherish our language, and so every day we we speak it as much as we can. And uh yeah, uh and I added in the end there that I uh I work at Oglala Lakota College. Uh I'm the chair of the Lakota Studies Department. So uh doing all I can to uh uh work and you know on a professional level as well throughout the day to uh you know just make moves on behalf of the language.

SPEAKER_08 22:28

Um, fire thunder and makyapi, sisitoa wachbetwa oyate, hemata, um system South Dakota, imachare, arta um Mikihanaku, Alex, Achiapi, um Ogwala Lakota we chash the hecha cha wana um ogwala oyankei. Um te wash the other pitch up, yes. So uh my name is Camille Signfire Thunder. I'm from the Sistan, Wapton, Oyate. I'm also Ho Chunk too from Wisconsin on my dad's side, but I don't really know that side culturally, but I'm still really proud to be, and I and I do like to mention that. Um I grew up in Sistin, um, but just like Alex said, um, I'm living in um Oguala land, Oguala territory for the last like six years or so. And um, but yeah, that's that's where we are. We're raising our kids and yeah.

SPEAKER_07 23:48

Timmy Gwenge, thanks so much for um introducing yourselves. And uh sorry, how many children do you have?

SPEAKER_08 23:57

We have three. Our oldest is five, our middle one is three, and then our youngest is one.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Oh wow, yeah. Busy then, like we're super busy.

SPEAKER_06 24:13

Yeah, if you see us going on and off the screen here, it's because we're chasing them around.

SPEAKER_07 24:18

Yeah, again, I apologize. Don't. It's good. This is the life. Like, totally. Do what you gotta do, and and if there's anything that you do decide that, oh, can you take that part out? You can't we can. And but I just I we've had several parents come and their children were with them, and um, it makes it even better, you know, to some of them are speaking, some of them aren't, but it it it's really nice. This is what it's all about. So um, I don't know what did you want to ask uh something, Ozawa?

SPEAKER_02 24:49

I was curious if you guys like is there like a language nest, or are you guys doing this on your own, or are there other families or yeah, so there is uh a handful of Lakota immersion nests throughout Lakota country, uh, but there's not really one close to us here, um, here in Kyle or Kejuta Kaka Medicine District.

SPEAKER_06 25:15

Uh there's a pretty good one about an hour from here. It's the Mahdi Aluta Waiwa uh Red Cloud Immersion School. And actually, these guys have been going there uh once almost once a week, or they were, they haven't been, it's been a while since they've been over there, but uh just to kind of visit. And um Camille will probably talk about it later, but she does a show um all in Lakota and Dakota uh puts it up on YouTube, and they uh they help they they want to support that, so they allow her to record her show there at the school, and then they take the kids for the day in the classrooms, and so it's really nice and really helpful. Um, and they get to make friends and speak Lakota with some of the other kids and um interact with teachers and things like that in Lakota, which is really good for them. Uh, but no, we're we've done this pretty much all, you know. I don't want to say all on our own because we get a lot of help from like language-wise, we don't do everything on our own. But uh well, as far as raising the kids, we're on our own. And uh yeah, you want to add to that?

SPEAKER_08 26:30

Um, yeah. Sorry, you guys. Um no, I sorry, I don't want to add to that. You said everything.

SPEAKER_13 26:46

All right.

SPEAKER_07 26:48

Um well, where did your I know that you you spoke a little bit already. I I know I'm kind of re reiterating, but you um, Alex, you spoke about, you know, you had lots of exposure and the through song ceremony of the language um growing up at powwows and whatnot. Um, when did you how did your learning journey start? Like, how did you know that you wanted to do this and how did that lead you to where you guys are today? Like, you don't have to get into ton of detail if you don't want to reiterate everything, but um I'd like to ask, or we'd like to ask both of you that those questions and hear how you got to where you are today.

SPEAKER_06 27:29

Yeah, for sure. Um growing up singing and growing up around powers and ceremonies, I just always wanted to, I always wanted to learn. And I remember actually like having some books as a kid and trying to figure out how to say certain things. And I mean, I remember like learning how to count to 10, and I was really excited as a little boy. I remember uh from the books, I remember learning how to say like what my name is in the language, and that was exciting. Uh outside of that, I don't really remember much. But I also remember in like middle school, my brother and I um we would try to pretend that we knew how to speak Klakota, and we would just like say the words from a song, but we didn't know what it meant. And thinking back now, our stresses were all off, our pronunciation was terrible because we were just we just knew it from the song. Um, but it was really, you know, it's funny to think back at that now. And uh so I remember also making like kind of a pact with my brother. Um and we that we were gonna learn the language and that we would be able to talk to our mom in her first language, you know, in our native language. And that was when we were like teenagers. And um shout out to my brother, he's still got a lot of work to do. I don't know if he's gonna listen to this or not. Um but I uh I my active, real active language journey started when I moved home, and that was part of why I moved home. Um I I I dropped out of high school and I was kind of a pow-wall bum for a little while, just singing and dancing and trying to make ends meet and quickly realized that's not the life I really want to lead, lead. And uh, you know, I love powwows and stuff, but I don't want to rely on them for my livelihood. And um so I can't I moved home to pursue a uh college education and I hated I hated school growing up, but it was all in the Washigu world and the you know Western world. I never had any, I never had a teacher or or really many classmates who weren't white um growing up. And so my dad actually attended a semester here um at Ogalo Lakota College before I was born. And he took like Lakota thought and philosophy. He took, I don't know if he took a language class or not, but he took you know some culture classes, history classes, and um, some of his uh professors are some of the elders who are no longer here, but they're like legends. And I'm like, you're so lucky. You got to have him as your instructor, Dad. And um it's kind of funny to think about now. But he kind of encouraged me to come back here and pursue education. And then also, I want to give credit and shout out to one of my best friends who's actually Ojibwe from Thunder Bay. His name's uh Benesse um Marcel. And he really encouraged me to come back home and get an education and kind of do something with my life. So um that's when my language journey, my active language learning journey kind of began. I took my first uh language class in 2013 here at OLC Lakota College. And from there it was, you know, it was tough because uh all the teachers that they're here have always been elders and first language speakers, and they have a wealth of knowledge. Um, but the teaching methods are have been kind of um outdated, or you know, they're doing the best they can for how they learn how to teach, but uh I it wasn't much exposure to the actual, you know, they didn't talk to us in the club. And we just kind of went over a lot of word lists and then some grammar patterns, and then they were expected to just put it together. And it's uh it was tough, and um it took a while, it took a while for me to build confidence and got laughed at by a lot of people, my mom included, you know, laughing at how I my pronunciation. Um I was learning like formal speech from the books and things, and then you know, she speaks a very colloquial style of language, so I got laughed at a lot, and but just stuck with it. I think that's the key is uh having the drive and motivation to just stick with it no matter what method, no matter what teacher, no matter what textbook. I mean, those are all factors as well, but the biggest factor I think is motive having the motivation and the drive. And so I I tried to stick, stick with it. And of course, you have time periods where you're really motivated and time periods where you're not, but uh ultimately in the long run, you you come back, you always come back to it. And then uh kind of wrap things up here, and I'll kind of take in a while. But uh when when Camille and I met, I had already been I started teaching. Uh uh let me go back real quick. I I actually was pursuing education in social work. I had no intention of being a language teacher, uh, but I was hoping to use language and culture as tools in social work to kind of uh help empower you know youth and things like that. I I had a vision of like an after-school program that was like reconnecting to uh students and youth to the land through cultural practices and um activities and things like that as a kind of a prevention program thing, something like that. And um I should revisit that now, actually. I've uh totally abandoned that since been a while, but I got I got uh pretty quickly got recruited into the language teaching world, and I think my social work background helped me though to be a good teacher, to build that and like empowerment, you know, of the students. So um I started teaching. Uh I met Camille uh about a year or so after I graduated and started teaching, and she was a teacher. Um and so we we kind of bonded on that, and then when we got married, we put it in our vows to get fluent or die trying, and uh and we we vowed to raise our children in the language, so that was a big uh big motivation when our our uh firstborn when he was born, we realized that we didn't know a lot of the the like taking care of baby terms and sentences and all that, you know, all that. We didn't know how to say, I'm gonna change your diaper, we didn't know how to say your mom's gonna nurse you, we didn't know how to say I'm gonna burp you, you know, all the kinds of new things that we were just like I'm not prepared for this, never never learned this in the classroom, never learned this in a textbook. So a lot of things like that, but uh I'll stop there and let this let Camille answer more.

SPEAKER_08 34:33

So the question is our language journey?

SPEAKER_07 34:36

Yeah, like um, what made you want to start and slash like you know, how did you get to like where you were? Like what you know, what was it started as a kid, as a teenager, and you know, what kind of drove you here?

SPEAKER_08 34:49

Okay. Um first I just want to I feel like I always just want to mention like I'm still very learning, like I still identify as a beginner in my language learning. Um, but I feel like just growing up, I feel like a lot, like a lot of our people, like we we know like there's value in our language, like we don't have to be convinced of it. And so I feel like I've always just like you know, valued it growing up. I remember like the first time I actively really wanted to learn it was when my brother had um his first son, and I was about 16, and I remember um asking one of my aunties, like, how do you say this? And I'm like writing it down because I wanted to like say those things too. Um, which I think is interesting now, like kind of looking back at where I am now and how like my language journey is like still it was it started like sparked by children, and then now I just find myself with children and my own children. And but I I don't know, I've I always loved our language. Um and I was I was talking, we and Alex were talking yesterday, and I was saying, like, I just feel like one thing about my personality is like I'll want to do something, but I'm like too scared to do it on my own. And so, like, if I can just find someone to do it with me, then I can we can really just take off together. And I feel like that's kind of how it was with language too. Because when I met Alex, my sister actually kind of introduced us because she was in a class that he was teaching, and she was like, I think I found something for you. Then we added Facebook and saw each other like the next weekend at a at a Powell. And um, but that was something I really valued and I I thought was really attractive. And Alex was like, he was he valued the language too. And so I was like, not that I want to give you all my credit, but you're definitely like a catalyst in my language journey, because Alex's language love for the language just really burns bright, and it just like you know, lit my relit mine too. Um, and so I feel like my serious language learning journey is has been my motherhood journey. Honestly, it's like those two are just like you can't separate them. Um and I remember being really like obviously as a as a first-time mom, I was an auntie, you know, for a long time, but it's different, like being a mom, and like, because I remember that first year um of my my son's life. Um I'll I'll be watching like my Snapchat memories back, and I'll be like, oh my gosh, I'm speaking English to him. That's so weird. And it wasn't until he turned about one year old when he started like producing, and I was just like, oh my gosh, it just like punched me in my gut. Like, you need to start now. Like, you know, like, and so that was just like that's when I feel like my crash course in language learning began. And um Alex is Lakota, so he speaks Lakota and I'm Dakota, and the dialects are similar, you know, but different. And so um I feel like at this because Alex has a larger knowledge base of the language, um, so we just kind of naturally just spoke more Lakota to them. And I try to sprinkle the kota here and there where I can, because I do want them to know and be familiar with the de dialect as well. Um, but we do we are mostly Lakota speaking, but but it's still very like comprehensible between the two dialects as well. So um, but yeah, every day is my motivation with the kids, and like every day it's like, am I doing it or am I not doing it? Because they're right there with you all the time, you know. And so when Alex was saying like the motivation, you always just need your motivation, it's like with my motivation all the time, like that's kind of my did I leave anything out with Alex? Okay, I think that's all I have to say about that.

SPEAKER_06 39:10

One funny thing about the dialect difference is uh our our second, our middle child, he uh I think for a while he thought that that the kota dialect was spoken by women and that the Lakota dialect was spoken by men. Or or maybe, or I don't know, because then he still does this sometimes too, or he'll know that's I guess that's they both learned how to code switch. They code switch and they'll speak the kota to her and lakota to me once they understand that.

SPEAKER_08 39:41

Oh crazy, like they yeah, they just and they figured it out. Like no one obviously had to give them a lesson on what is what, but yeah, they code switch.

SPEAKER_06 39:53

Our oldest is really aware of language of language and language differences and variants and all kinds of stuff. Like he's I don't know, he's just he's got like an attention to detail, not just with language with everything, but including language, so he'll notice if someone says something differently. He'll be like, I think what were you making a video where you're saying the word elanue and he told you la eape. She was using a word for sand lizard in her alphabet song, uh, and he's he just added that he he made it a point to tell her that some people say it with law then they add a lot, which makes means it's like cute or little or I mean it is a variant, but it's funny that he's I don't even know how he would know that, but not a common word that people talk about.

SPEAKER_07 40:49

Right, yeah. Oh, that's powerful, you know, the code switching, and that you notice that with like the two dialects or the two different different languages in the house, that that's powerful.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Yeah, it's so interesting. Um that they that they can just pick that up without even being taught that. Um where did you guys like find the motivation to do it, like to want to speak to your kids? Like, did you see someone else do it, or was it just kind of natural, and you're just like, okay, we're just gonna do it?

SPEAKER_06 41:32

It's all it's always been one of my three goals. I I I set three goals for myself when I started learning when I, you know, when I made the decision, like I want to learn. And the first one was what I talked about earlier, wanting to know what the songs were about. The second one was also what I talked about. My brother and I wanted to talk to our mom. I wanted to be able to converse with my mom and in our language. And then the third one was I didn't have children at the time, but I I said, and I didn't know Camille at the time, but uh I told myself that when I have children, I want to raise them in a language, and uh I don't know, part of it goes for me, part of it goes back to uh my I mentioned him earlier, my friend Vanesse. He he said something along the lines of like, I think this is a quote from somebody else too, but uh, I want to give my children the chance to be more indigenous than I was or I am, and uh that you know that kind of sat with me. And uh with the language, I I wanted to do the best I could to give that to return that to give them the opportunity to be first language speakers that I didn't I wasn't given that opportunity. Nice.

SPEAKER_07 42:43

Yeah, we have that in common. That's I had very similar goals and same thing for me. So it's so it's wild, you know, like different nation to nation, but like similar dynamics within the family and the relationships and how you met and everything. That's yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

There's a lot of similarities between all of us.

SPEAKER_07 43:08

Um what did you ask again, Nozawa?

SPEAKER_02 43:12

Like, how did you find the motivation for want to speak to your kids? Where did that come from?

SPEAKER_01 43:21

I had to laugh because I was like, where did that come from?

SPEAKER_08 43:25

Because I don't think we ever saw it modeled. Going real hard for it and never saw it happen. But no, just like what Alex said, I do want to say, like, I had I don't know why I just feel like I wanted to share this, but um another like language, like um core memory that I have is um I don't know what it was in like growing up, is just like maybe thinking of the language as like this is the language, but it's and you can say it and speak it at powas or gatherings and stuff, but it's not it's not really spoken like conversationally, you know, because I don't really see it, I don't hear it, um, or like phrases that we say with kids, it's just kids' things to say to them, but that's like the extent. But I remember I was um in my early 20s and I was at a restaurant in Sistin. I was eating with my mom, and it was a conversation in Dakota that I I heard spoken between Eric Demars and Jeremy Redigal, and they're both um I think second language learners in Sistin. And they just Jeremy walked in, Eric was sitting and eating with his family, and they just started speaking Dakota to each other. And I just remember being like, oh my gosh, like I just like watched them, like no shame, just like watch them talk to each other for maybe three minutes, and I just could not believe it. Like, oh my gosh, like this is like a language that you like it can be spoken and used today to communicate. And I guess I just never saw that, especially like with second language learners. And I remember just like that, just like blew my mind when I saw that. And I feel like that really inspired me too. And when I met Alex beginning when we were dating, I remember um him and one of his cousins um were speaking to each other and just like that same thing, like, oh my gosh, like I can't believe that it's being used like the way language is supposed to be used. But I feel like that was like a really cool like moment for me of like, wow, okay, this is doable. You know, like I can do this too. And so um, I feel like that maybe was a big because it's just like a huge core memory in my language journey. Um, those two conversations between second language learners. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Sure. It's it's like so motivating to see someone else that's doing it, and you're like, oh, it's possible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:52

I have one more thing to add to that. I think um not with without trying to be super negative or anything, but uh I always kind of had a critique of like language teachers who get paid and have a career to teach a language, but at home their kids don't speak or they don't teach their own kids. And uh I I get it, like I get why they don't uh now. Um but with that critique, I kind of held myself to that critique, saying, like, if I'm gonna be a language teacher, I'm gonna speak the language with my kids at home. And so that was another motive motivational factor for me, is like I gotta I gotta walk my talk and hold myself accountable to the things that I say and the the standards that hold other people to. And um, but with that said, it's not easy, and I understand I'm not I don't pass judgment on uh teachers that aren't able to teach at home or speak at home with their kids, you know, for whatever reasons. And I know a lot of you know a lot of people make the decision uh to you know try to bring that into their home later on when their kids are grown, and it's really hard to get you know kids at an older age motivated to want to learn another language and use that language when English is just so convenient when we it's the common denominator. So just want to put that disclaimer out. I'm not trying to pass judgment on other teachers.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

So what are you um what are your some of your challenges, you think, for uh getting your kids to to be speakers?

SPEAKER_06 47:28

Where to begin? It's definitely the whole thing's a challenge. There's a lot of things, and uh but with that said, it it can be done and it is being done. So it's a it's a worthwhile challenge, and it's worthwhile to spend time and to put forth the effort to overcome those challenges. But um I would say one of the big challenges is just the lack of community support of relatives, and you know, like there's the old the old phrase, uh it takes a village, right? It takes a village to raise a child. And uh that's that couldn't be more true than with language. Um it takes a village of speakers to to really raise a speaker, and we don't have that village, and so we have to make up for it and or try to build a village, you know. And that's so much work more than just parenting, you know. Um, you know, reaching out to other speakers and other learners and trying to build, trying to build that community that doesn't exist um so that our kids can have that exposure. So that's what you know, and you can't make your relatives learn the language. You know, you can try to motivate them, you can give them the resources, you can invite them to events and do all the things, but it's up to them uh if they want to do that. And they have to have that motivation. Um, and if they don't, then it's just it's frustrating, but there's nothing really you can do about it and ask for their support in whatever other ways that they can. But uh, I would say that's one of the bigger challenges. Uh, I have more to add, but uh we'll bounce off each other. We talked about it yesterday, so yeah.

SPEAKER_08 49:17

I would say my uh proficiency level and um my proficiency level, it's um not as fast. I'm not learning as fast as my kids. Um, and so I'm grateful that I have Alex who is at a way higher level of proficiency than I am, because I lean on him and I can say go ask your dad, like um, or tell him to explain things to me. Um but yeah, definitely proficiency level. Well, um, kind of like Alex said support. Like I know people um you know offer moral support. They hear the kids and they're super happy and they're super proud. But it's also like okay, you can support us by speaking the language in front of them. You know, like I I know you guys know what I mean, but um what else did we say?

SPEAKER_06 50:13

What was um some of the unexpected things or challenges were like uh getting toys when they were babies, like baby toys, and those toys all speak English, like you press a button and it says like the color or says you know, says all kinds of stuff, animal names, or uh those audio books where you press on the press on the image and it'll tell you know, read the book to you, like an audiobook kind of, and it's all in English. And I don't know, getting gifts from relatives, or you're like, oh thank you, you know, you're really grateful for it, and you wanna you know like I don't know, you wanna you don't want to take it for granted or anything like that, but it's an English speaking toy, and it's like I don't we're not gonna use this. Um sorry to any relatives that might be listening to this. But that's something you know you don't think about if you're not if you're not raising kids in the language, you know, you know.

SPEAKER_08 51:08

Um media, kids media. Um, because I'm a stay-at-home mom, so like of course we have like the TV on. And there's just like a really limited um selection of um children's shows in the language, Lakota or Dakota. And that was kind of the conception of my Tweet Camille show. Um we were on YouTube, and you know how it just like reads your algorithm and plays the next show. Um yeah, Miss Rachel came on and my kids loved it, and I loved it. And but by the end of the first episode, they were like speaking English already. So I was like, okay, we can't watch this anymore. Um so yeah, a lack of kids' children's shows, and I know they get tired of watching the same things over and over.

SPEAKER_06 51:58

Um how do you guys navigate going into like non Lakota speaking spaces, which I guess, like us, you're surrounded by it, but we were really kind of uh blessed in a weird way with our our firstborn being born in 2020, uh February of 2020, right before the pandemic hit. And so he was raised his first two years during that pandemic, and we just stayed home. And it isolated us from most you know English speaking spaces, and so I think that really uh kind of helped us lay a good foundation for him. Um he was uh like he couldn't speak English for a long for a while. Like he was probably two and a half, three years old when he first started putting together some English sentences and stuff. He had heard English because Camille and I we we go back to English when we talk to each other quite often. That's that's probably our weakest point. Um, with the language is talking to each other. We're good, we were good about staying in the language with the kids. So he had that interact 100% interaction in Lakota. But he heard us and heard us talk on the phone to other people, and yeah, he was exposed to English, but he just never had the opportunity to interact in English until we started going out and seeing visiting relatives, and um that was his first time being able to try to use English. But I think that that really helped us. And now, like I said earlier, he's really aware of different languages, and he knows if someone speaks English or speaks Lakota and he'll talk about it or speaks another language, you know. Um, because there's no there's hardly any shows or movies in Lakota, we play a lot of shows and movies in Spanish, and the kids are actually starting to learn a lot of Spanish. Um, but they're yeah, they just have a like a knack for languages out here, different languages, or we'll visit different tribes and they'll talk about what language it is or things like that. So it's pretty cool. Um, do you have anything to add to that?

SPEAKER_08 54:11

I want to say this because I think um I remember you mentioning it um yeah, I remember you mentioning it on one of your episodes, but especially because I started my language learning in my motherhood journey. It feels like I'm fighting biology all the time, um, trying to retain what I learned and practice what I learned. Because I know with like pregnancy and postpartum, like literally, like your brain releases hormones to make you forget everything so you can focus on your baby. And it's just like, oh my, like I just remember like crying and like telling Alex, like, I just can't remember, you know. And it's just like that was like a huge unexpected um difficulty. It's just like I wish I would have really learned a lot more before I had a baby because it it is like post like mom brain's a real thing, postpartum, pregnancy, all of that. It just really plays a big part. And I'm like trying to learn a language and speak it and teach it, all while that's going on. So that's been a true and real difficulty as a woman trying to raise children in a language that I'm learning at the same time as them.

SPEAKER_07 55:28

I say like every episode, like people get me going. It's like I can't even hide. It's just so awesome. Like, not awesome, but it's really nice to be able to hear like someone having almost the exact same experience as myself, where no offense, Ozawa, but you don't know what that feels like. Um struggle's real. So much goes into it, and I'm also like less proficient than Ozawa. And so it's it's just really it feels really um good to be able to know. I'm not the only one, not to make this about me, this podcast is about um you guys today, but um I'm just like, whoa, whoa, there's so many um things that I'm relating with you on that I'm like, I think you're the first person who's ever you know brought some of these things up.

SPEAKER_11 56:16

And so, like, tell us how to say thank you in Lakota and Dakota, but I would love to say thank you.

SPEAKER_07 56:32

And feel free to keep going because I didn't mean to cut you off either. Like, if there's other things that you found obstacles or challenge, that's just like super validating another mother who's on this journey who's has a similar thing, who's like being real about, like you said, biology, which is now I'm gonna refer to it from now on.

SPEAKER_08 56:51

It is, it's totally biology. I kind of want to be like, see Alex.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

Well, we got struggles too.

SPEAKER_07 57:16

Yeah, yeah. I definitely feel you on the mom brain and the kids like their abilities and their language moving forward further than you because they're sponges and then you're just using the same things over and over and you're trying to get more, but you know, it's not really sticking. So I I do I do feel that. Um but on the other end of things, both of you have mentioned some some pretty awesome things that you've noticed or seen, like the code switching and being able to um for your littles to have uh friends at the Okolala Kota, or was it red?

SPEAKER_06 57:51

Uh the Mahbialu, red cloud.

SPEAKER_07 57:53

Red cloud, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 57:54

Yeah, red cloud.

SPEAKER_07 57:55

So originally to be able to talk. Um, you know, were there anything most of it's unexpected being a parent, what do you experience with your your children? Were there things that you weren't expecting through teaching them language that you found super rewarding? Or obviously it's all rewarding, but like you weren't expecting that were very, very positive um outcomes that you couldn't foresee happening.

SPEAKER_06 58:21

All right. Um, I guess I'll I'll start with this one. Uh I would say my first like kind of unexpected thing, I don't know if it's unexpected, but just really like eye-opening and kind of a light bulb over my head is just realizing the differences between first language acquisition and second language acquisition, which I think that a lot of indigenous language teachers, uh, and especially first language speakers, elders don't understand those differences. So often I hear like that's not how I learned it, you know, from the elders talking about how they grew up. It's like, yeah, you grew up in a home with full of speakers and in a community full of speakers, and um it's just not it's not doable or possible at this point for most most of most people to learn that way. Um, but also just once you learn in your first language, that becomes both an obstacle and an advantage in different ways for learning a second language, and it's just not the same. And I think that we don't talk about that those differences enough. But as a as a language teacher, I see those differences in raising the kids as first language learners versus teaching students of all ages, and I've taught from pre-K all the way up to college, and I've had elders who aren't Lakota speakers sit in my classrooms too. So I've you know, I've taught people from ages you know three and four all the way on up to 80, and uh it's just not the same first language versus second language acquisition, it's totally different. And uh the fact that, you know, Camille said earlier too, she's like, my kids are learning faster than me. That's because of that difference. You know, they're not smarter than her. They're not, you know, they're they're not getting uh better instruction than her or using different textbooks than her. They're not using textbooks at all. Yeah, yeah, they're not studying grammar patterns. Um, yeah, they're picking up the grammar patterns and using correct grammar patterns where that Camille is struggling to use, or even that I struggle to use. Um, and I always use this one example of uh so in I think I think Ojibwe is the same where you're conjugate verbs for who who you're talking about. So there's no isolated word for I or you or he or she or they or we. It's it's a it's the affix that you add into the verb. And uh so we have this affix in Lakota that's dual. So it's just you and I. And it's only used when you're talking to the person about you and that person. Um, otherwise it becomes we plural. So it's uh first person dual. And because it's not in English, you know, we is we, it can be you and I, we, or it could be all of us, we, or it could be exclusive, we um it's all the same, we is we. And in Lakota, it's different, you know. If it's just you and the one person, you have to use that dual. But I struggle because of the English brain to use that consistently. And uh I realized I used it consistently enough that that Odoa, our oldest, he picked up on it and used and he used it consistently. And one time it was just he and I on a walk, and I said something about like uh let's we're gonna go home now. But I used the we plural, and it was just him and I. And he said, Hia ate, and I thought he said he said he ate saying like protesting, like, no dad, like I want to keep walking or I want to go to the I think he was talking about going to the creek earlier, so I thought he was gonna argue, but he said, Hia ate, which is the the correct version, the correct way to say that. He corrected me and I was like, holy it's this guy. But that's uh it's just uh I guess a breath of fresh air as a teacher to see like first language learners just picking up on grammar patterns and conjugations and advanced stuff, like ablauts. We have these these ablaut endings where a word ends with ah, e, or e, depending on what comes next. And there's not really much rhyme or reason to it, it just depends on what word triggers the ending. And it's really hard for um second language learners to grasp that and get it correct because it's just there's no rhyme or reason to it. And but these guys got it. Like it's just it's just unbelievable how fast they pick things up, and but that's the beauty of first language acquisition. With that said, that's also more pressure on us as second language learners to get it right. Because if we don't get it right, they're gonna pick up whatever it is that we're saying. And they have picked up things that we've said that we realize are not accurate or not correct, and we've had to change it. And it is a challenge where it becomes fossilized and it's hard to change. Um, but it's it's just because something's fossilized doesn't mean it's like it's not. I don't know, maybe that's defeats the definition of fossilization. But you I do think that with enough attention and again motivation and drive and commitment and deliberateness, you can undo those learned patterns that are wrong or whatever. So um, and we've done it. So we used to say, uh, I'm gonna change your diaper. The way that we said it was uh Aleja Chuchiu Tokja. I'm gonna change the diaper for you. And that word for change, you tokja, is to cause some, it's a causative to make something different. And uh I was corrected by one of our elders, he said, What you're saying is you're gonna take his diaper and transform it into something for him. I was like, Oh, so that's not the right like change. Like I'm not gonna change it into something when I like replace it or you know, change it with a different one. And so he said, Yeah, so you have to say Aleja Tokja Waji Uchinchi. Hello, I'm gonna put a different diaper on you. Um, so yeah, that was something that we learned when our oldest was three, uh not to embarrass him, but he was still on diapers. It was kind of funny, he was at an age, he was old enough to say, uh change my diaper for me. But he was using the wrong, he was using the wrong way to say it.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:49

So when you refer to relearning something that, you know, like the correct way of you know using the language, is that what you mean? Like it's harder for you or harder for your children to replace that?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:03

Probably harder for us.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:05

They're pretty they're pretty adaptable, though. You know, they they they correct it and then we'll slip and go back to the old way and they'll correct us. It's become pretty normal now where they they correct us. We say something wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:21

That's really awesome.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:23

Um, so that's been that's been one of the uh kind of surprise, surprising things, or just something that was unexpected that um I guess if you think about it, it's not it shouldn't be unexpected, but it's just you know, I'd never never done that before or even uh experienced that. So as a teacher, it was just a breath of fresh air.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:45

And parenthood is everything's unexpected because it's your first time doing anything. So that's kind of what I mean about, yeah, or what we meant about, you know, what's you don't you don't predict what's gonna happen, especially when you're I don't want to say this is experimental, but like no one's really in this dynamic doing what we're doing as second language learners, raising our kids in a language that's our own. Like it's a very weird dynamic in tur on Turtle Island for us to be doing this, so we don't really know how it's gonna necessarily pan out. So you're like, I wasn't expecting this to happen and whatnot, um, and then add parenthood on top of it. But uh how about yourself, Camille? Um, was there any moments for you that were kind of like a light bulb or like very rewarding, or something that was just really awesome that you weren't expecting to experience through your children learning um their mother tongue or their heritage language, target language?

SPEAKER_08 1:06:41

I don't I really don't mean to like be corny or um romanticize everything, but I really just feel like hearing them every day and listening to them and their little voices in the morning when they're just like my two older sons, when they're just like playing by themselves and just like hearing them speak to each other is so it's just like the cutest thing in the world, and then it's also like it's nice when like we go out in public um because we do like all our shopping in Rapid City, and obviously, like the the language that we speak to each other is in Lakota, and I some I try to fight the feelings of being like self-conscious or something, like when there's other Lakota people in the store, and I know they can probably hear us. Um but like being stopped, and I'm not I'm not trying to break and I'm not trying to whatever, but like we really will get stopped in the store, and people will be like, oh my gosh, like you guys are speaking Lakota, and it's like you know, in some moments I'm like it's just so normalized because that's the culture of our home to speak Lakota. But then like getting that like just really supportive and surprise reaction from people, it's like, yeah, that is that is cool. This is really cool what Alex and I are doing in our home. Um, and it's it's I it's just it's all rewarding, it's all really hard, but it's all really rewarding at the same time. Um, for me, I really feel like, oh my gosh, like it just touches my heart like when I hear them interacting like with elders. Um, because I guess I feel really nervous and self-conscious around elders um and first language speakers, but like seeing them communicate makes me feel really proud and really, really happy. Um and another thing, like that, I mean, this isn't necessarily like I mean it's it's all related, but um, I was really pleasantly surprised, and I don't mean to keep bringing up my show, but I was really pleasantly surprised at the how welcomed and well received my kids' show has been. And I was just like saying that just tells me like what even the choice, like our people would watch in the language, you know, but like that hasn't even been done. Like this is maybe like the first or one of the first. Obviously, it's not the the first because there's other kids' shows, but just saying, like, our people want that, and that's what how is being received tells me is our people want this and our people want more of it, and our kids want more of it, and so that's was a very pleasant surprise and made me feel really good. Can you get the encouraged to keep making shows?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:35

Can you talk about that? Like, how did you get that started and the story behind it?

SPEAKER_07 1:09:40

Yeah, we were in a good time. We'd love to hear all about this and also make sure it gets promoted because this is awesome. So we'd love to hear all about it.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:49

Okay, yeah. Um, so earlier I mentioned um we were watching YouTube and it just like read the algorithm or whatever that it was. We're watching kids' stuff, and so then it played Miss Rachel. And do you guys know Miss Rachel? Okay, she's so I I love her. I just like her show's so sweet and so happy and comforting, and it's just like the colors, her voice, like everything. And my kids, like my kids are busy. I mean, I know all kids are I swear, my oldest is like extra busy, and like he just would be memorized by her and just stop in his tracks, and they would just watch her. And I was like, Oh, this is a nice break. But anyway, but um yeah, like at the end of that episode, we watched like a full like 45-minute episode, and like at the end of that episode, they were like speaking English, and like my son was like, I want water. Okay, we can't watch this anymore. Because they just loved it and I loved it. And anyway, so I remember just like sitting on the thought of like, oh my gosh, I wish we had a Miss Rachel, but in the language, like, how awesome would that be? And then I was like, okay. And I put the idea out on Facebook, and everyone was like, that would be so amazing. And so I was like, okay, I'm just I'm just gonna try it. I'm just gonna do it, I'm just gonna take a healthy risk and just try it. And so I did, and um, we put it online and we put it on Facebook, and it just kind of went viral. Like that first video got a lot of attention and a lot of um positive feedback. And so then um I made a few more after that, and it was like each time it was like five months in between, just because you know, childcare and being busy and stuff like that. And but yeah, that's kind of how it started. And I kind of had to laugh. I always liked this. Because at first I'm like, okay, this is for my children, you know, I love my children, this is for them, and then they would be like, I don't want to watch this. And then here, like other parents will be like, they just love watching you. Not like it. But anyway, I think they got used to seeing me on TV or on a art on YouTube. And anyway, they like it now, but at first it was funny because they were like, I don't want that. But um, no, and that was a really that's been a really fun project in my language learning because it's just like real basic stuff that I'm saying, you know, and like I still am like at that level learning. Um, but it's like a real project-based learning um thing for me. And then just like trying to translate songs and like into children's tunes and like learning a lot about like, and obviously like my husband helps me with that and like understanding like, no, that's not Lakota thought. Like you would never say that in Lakota. Nobody says that in Lakota. It's like, oh, okay. So then what should we think that? Like, and then trying to make that fit. And um, so yeah, it's been really good. It's been um the kids like it, my kids like it now. Um, it's fun too, because like we'll be at the mall and rapid, and then a couple times in the food court, someone will recognize me and like, take a are you to me, Camille? And I'm like, yeah. So we'll take a picture. And so that's really cool. Um, but it's just been really fun. It's been a really good learning experience for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:38

How many have you made so far?

SPEAKER_08 1:13:40

I just made my 10th episode, and then um I kind of started a new little series from that because it I the title is Language for Littles with Twee Camille, but then I'm like, we also need like a show for parents, because like it's not enough to just play the show, like you have to interact with your kids in the language, like if that's really what we want. It's like a show is a great place to start, but that's not enough. And so I've I've made one episode of Language for Grown Ups of like things to say to your kids and stuff, and so I mean that wasn't as wildly as popular as the kids want.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:20

Like your mystery show for Zakota and Louis at the same time because Lou is like a parent show for kids, like telling Alex you should be blippy because being the one with the blipping bleep.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:39

I could see that, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:43

You just shake the head and shuts it down and reach. Oh, I'm actually kind of fangirling right now, though, because I'm like, oh, I that's you. Um when you first said, you know, at the beginning with my show, I was kind of like, oh my god, check check. Like I kind of had like a moment where I was like, is that her? Wow, like that's yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, incredible stuff and amazing work. And that's um yeah, we should we're gonna let's start doing that, Ozawa. Like, I'm not gonna be on a show, but watching your your channel.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:27

Do you get funding for that or how does that at first like the first six episodes I wasn't? Um, but then um our friend at Red Cloud, he um said, like, why aren't you making more? Child, like what's your biggest obstacle? I'm like child care, like when when when do I have time to do this? Because it is a process, like deciding what to film and translating it, especially the songs too. Um and then filming it and then editing it, like it all can take it can take like 20 hours per episode. Yeah, then he offered like to um support me and not only with the kids, but um like compensate me for making episodes. And so I was like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. I would love the opportunity to have the child care. I can focus on the show, film it, edit it. And so, yeah, so the last um four episodes have been, I guess, sponsored. I don't know, sponsored, but um yeah, with um Red Cloud and a program at Red Cloud, which has been really nice. Yeah, before that was just for the kids.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:39

Yep, yeah. That was how our podcast started to go. We were just doing it just to try and connect to other families across Turtle Island doing the work, and then here we are in season two. But I'm really glad that they were able to do that for you because it's so important and um it's a lot of work that people don't see, right? Of like background stuff.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:01

And and one thing, like I just want to, I mean, just because this is an opportunity to say thanks.

SPEAKER_13 1:17:07

For sure.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:08

Um like and it gets a lot of support on our Oyeah page on Facebook, um, our language page. But a lot of people I've noticed because I'll like look at the shares and I'll like read what people are saying. And I've noticed a lot of people being like, our tribe needs to start doing this, or our tribal program needs to do this, and I wish our tribe this, our tribe that. And it's like me and Alex are like, this is like has nothing to do with the tribe, like this show that you're watching and sharing, like no tribal program has anything to do with us doing it and making it. And so it's just like people can make things and on their own, you know what I mean? Like, and I guess that's what I I've really admired about my husband, is like he's like a doer. Like, I know people have lots of good ideas, and that's probably how I am too, is just like, oh, someone should do this, someone should. That would be really cool if someone did that. Like, my husband is like very much okay, then let's do it, you know, and so he kind of gave me that boost of like just do it, you know, and I think that's something that a lot of people, especially, I don't want to say especially, but just a lot of people could really just just go with your ideas, you know, like produce it, make it happen. And I was really happy that people liked my Miss Lakota Miss Rachel idea.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:38

But yeah, just take the initiative and yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:44

Because you're also like parenting, and when do you find the time to be able to do these things and fit the time in and do the translation work, like oh, someone's sleeping, okay, we'll do it now. So there's such a mass amount of work that goes into it that doesn't get seen. So I just want to give you some credit and let everyone on anyone listening on here know how much work.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:06

That's true. Let's do the movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:14

That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:22

Well, yeah, so thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:25

She was talking, it was just cute. She was saying Oh no, she don't want to shy.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:41

Yeah, you just tell me to be quiet because my laugh tends to like punch people's ear down.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:45

So just wanted you guys to I just wanted you guys to hear her little voice.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:50

Yeah. Um Zala.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:56

So what are some uh some uh advice that you'd give to other other parents trying to do this?

SPEAKER_08 1:20:06

I'll go first. Um truly I feel like if you if you have this like idea of like this is how you want your future family to be, I feel like you just have to be with someone who has that same vision, who loves the language as you. Because me and Alex were saying, like, we're we're going over these questions yesterday. I don't think you could do this without me. And I don't, I know I couldn't do this without you. And we were just like, yeah, like your partner has to be supportive. Cause I'm like, what if like you spoke Lakota to them and I just was still doing what I'm doing, like being a stay-at-home mom, but I'm speaking English to them all day. You know what I mean? Like they would hear English in the home, hear English out of the home, hear English on TV, their peers, like they would not, you know what I mean? And then, but then he helps me and supports my language so that I can speak with them. You know, so I would feel like if this is really something that you want, like I think you have to have a partner that wants the same thing and values language the same way you do. And also, oh sorry, I wish I learned more before I had kids because like going back to the mom brain, like my brain, like when I was like in school and just like doing my own thing, like could have a much firmer, faster grasp on the language than I am now.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:32

And then to add to that would be like that's like planning for the TY for the nuclear family. I would say also something that we didn't do and didn't really take into account, and we're trying to just kind of do on the fly as we as we go along, but it would be good to plan ahead is to find other people who share that vision, who want to raise children um the same way and kind of like I said earlier, like build that build a community. Um, because we don't have the village, we don't have the communities of speakers that we really need to raise the children in the language, and we you really have to do that. And it would be better to do it with planning ahead. Um, so we we didn't do that part, but uh I think that would be something also to consider if this is something that you want to do, um, try to find other people besides just your partner, that's important for sure, but also you know, other other couples, other relatives who are either speakers or learners or what you know, whatever it is, and try to motivate them to uh you know, we can do this, this is possible, let's do it together. And uh that's something that we that do anything. Um that's something that we uh we witnessed a lot, and I think we gave it a lot of thought now in the last year since we went to New Zealand and and to Atearua and uh met with a lot of Maori uh families who have been doing this for longer than we have. And uh you know, that's something that they've done, they've been really good about is planning. Um so I think if you know if there's something, uh you know, there's many lessons to be learned from our trip over there, but that was one of them. It's kind of being better at planning, especially for me. Um like Camille said, I'm a doer, but I'm not a planner. I just you know have something that needs to be done. I don't plan, I just do it. Let's just do it. And sometimes that's uh sometimes it's it works out, but sometimes it what I do could be done better if there was good planning before it.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:46

So when we went to Ashford this summer, we met with this family, and it was so cool because there was was it like three brothers? I think there was three brothers. Um, well, first it was their mom. Their mom decided that she wanted to learn the language, and then she had three sons, and then she I don't know if they didn't, I think they were all second language learners. Like I think they spoke English first. But the brothers and the mom made a pact, like we're gonna we're gonna learn Maori and we're gonna speak it to our kids. And so they all got married, all three sons got married, and they all had a bunch of kids, and um they all speak, and now all their children, all their nieces and nephews, they all are speaking Maori together, and that's just the language of their Tiosh Bay, like their extended family. And I just think that's so cool and so beautiful. Like I just like dream, like, oh my gosh, like what if our these ones, like, what if we had that many people, you know, to speak with our kids, and also like as second language parents or second language learners trying to parent in the language, just having that support, you know, because like that was another thing when we went to um New Zealand. Well, before we went to New Zealand, I'm like, oh my God, I have like no one to talk to about my frustrations, my challenges, and like trying to raise the kids in the language, like my own limitations, and just like you know, wanting to talk to someone and just like ventilate, but I feel like no one could relate to me. And so when we went there and I was taught, we were talking to some of these other parents, I'm just like, oh my gosh, yes, like yes, everything you're saying 100%. That's how I feel, that's what I'm experiencing, and just like feeling that validation. Um, so I think, oh, and we're able to talk to a Maori elder over there who's very prominent in the Maori language revitalization, Sir Timoti Karatu. And we had a meeting with him and a personal like one-on-one meeting, and then one of his um like nieces, kind of like proteges type person, um, uh, Dr. Hannah O'Regan, and we just sat down and we told them, like, this is what we have going on, this is where we are. Can you just tell us like what to do? Can you give us a blueprint of what we need to be doing next? And one thing that they really stressed was like, your kids need peers to speak the language with. And I'm like, Yep, I see that. And they were asking, Well, what about your boys? Is there? And and then we talked, and my daughter was, she's like 20 months now, but at that time, I think she was just like 10 months. And she was like, Okay, well, maybe you you guys don't have peers for your older sons, but is can we plan a peer for your daughter? Is there anyone that you know that just recently had a baby or maybe someone that's pregnant that you can connect with? And I was just like so mind-blown, like, oh my gosh, I'm like planning a friend that's unborn for my butt like that's like what the that was like the theme of our time over there is like it's so intentional. Like, if you want language transfer and revitalization, and like you have to plan and be intentional. I just remember being so mind blown about like I'm like looking for someone who's unborn to be my daughter's friend so they can speak in language. I was just super mind-blown by that.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:25

But no, that's earth-shaking, like to think about. Like, I you talk about planning. I would have never even thought about that. Like, yes, maybe like you know, it seems kind of common sense, but I would never have thought about that. Like, okay, we're gonna think a generation ahead, or we're gonna think like, you know, when these people find their partners and start a family. And you know, like I would never have thought of something like that. That's like brand new ideas for me personally. I don't know about you, Ozawa, but like uh we also you know took a trip down to oh my gosh, to New Zealand um a couple years ago when I was pregnant. Um, so I'm like, I'm like, oh, we'll have to have you back on and we can chat about your trip and all the things. And I kind of just want to have you back on, anyways, because like there's so much I'm like, I want to just keep talking and I slash like hear about your updates and stuff too. Like you guys are really awesome. Um but yeah, yeah. Um, I can't even remember what the original question was, but um it was just a positive. Oh stuck. How do you stay motivated? Or um any uh advice for those trying to learn? Sorry.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:46

I would uh add to what I said earlier, and that's I think this goes to one of your guys' first episodes that I listened to that really hit home with me because it's something I've been trying to trying to say and trying to raise awareness about, but it's it's faced with a lot of resistance from our people, which is the studying of grammar. I think that grammar can be, you know, if you open your mind to it and not just like put it in a box is like this is the way that white people conceptualize language, like it can be really helpful because all that grammar is, and and maybe it just needs to be rephrased for our people. Uh, but uh what I like to say is this is a Lakota way of speaking. This is the Lakota, the Lakota grammar is a description of the differences between how we speak Lakota and how people speak English. And understanding those differences is really important. It can be really helpful to improving the quality and the proficiency of the languages you're speaking, which boosts confidence and helps you to you know teach and to speak and to pass that on to the children. So That doesn't mean that you have you should be afraid of making mistakes and making errors, but be open to the corrections and trying to, you know, always improve and be better. And so, like, that's the mentality that I try to uh carry every day throughout my language learning and teaching is like there's always room for improvement, there's always areas that I can be better and do better. Um, but that takes work, you have to work on it. And so every day I try to work on it and try to identify those errors or those inaccurate grammar patterns or whatever it is. So without learning out too much, uh, I I enjoy uh learning about grammar and learning about the differences in lakota and English and other languages. And I think that that can be really helpful. And um yeah, it just it just it's it's helpful to kind of avoid learning or speaking a lakota that's like kind of watered down or just like heavily English influenced, Englishy, um, an Englishy lakota, I'll say. And and that's not to say that we're we've totally you know riddled ourselves of that. There's always things one of one of my main mentors, elders that I that I look up to, he was teasing me the other day. He said, That's too western thought for me. He said, So I still am working on it myself. But uh that's the that's the mentality I think everybody should try to strive for. Is how do we get better? How do we get better every day? And um grammar can just help us do that. So it's not to me, it's not a bad word, or shouldn't it be a bad word, but maybe we call it a Lakota way of speaking or an indigenous way of speaking, so that we can look at uh the grammars of all of our of indigenous languages and what's unique about them, what's beautiful about them, uh, what's different. And uh, you know, how does it how does it uh trigger us to think about things differently, you know, based on the linguistics behind it. So, for example, I always use this as an example, is uh how we talk about the thunder. So we use uh the sound of thunder is waquina ho tumpi. And the word soaquina is is the thunder beings. Hotumpi is the verb to call out, to shout, or to to make a call, or to yell, or make your sound river. So it's usually used for animals, like when they're calling out. So like a bird singing is uh is the same word, hotum, hotumpi, and that bee at the end is a plural animate. And so to me, that that linguist the linguistic evidence is there that the the cultural belief of the thunders is that they're beings and that they're plural animate, and so that's right in there, and then same thing with lightning is duwampi, which means the thunder are they are opening their eyes, and again, plural animate, and then there when it's when there's a storm, we say Waquia agli, they have returned. So again, it's plural animate. So just just learning about the plural animate helps you to understand the the cultural thinking and understanding of how we view the thunders. That's just one example, but these are things that I back to you know, things that you're unexpected, surprised by as the kids, you know, because they're first language speakers, these things are like, you know, they they realize these things are just that's their understanding of the world is through the Lakota language. So I think that's really beautiful. And I've seen that they understand things that took me years to understand from not knowing the language because they know it. Um, so the song was like me. I grew up singing the songs, but I didn't know what they meant. Whereas these guys are learning the songs from hearing it once or twice. They know the words, they know the language already. They know what it what the song's about, what it's singing about, whatever's going on at the same time as that song's being sung. Like, I don't know, those are it's just really beautiful and really amazing. But uh, anyways, just wanted to put that out there that linguistics and grammar can really be a reflection of our beautiful culture and our thought and philosophy, and the things that I know that most people are resisting grammar in the name of decolonization and to push those, that type of thinking, but it's really it's all connected.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:13

So um kind of like what Kill said earlier, it's just a time to say something, so I wanted to say it and thanks for reiterating that for us. Um and I you were speaking before, like at the beginning, about you know, like that's that's not how I learned it. And I kind of I don't know if I invented this joke or not, but it's something I use before I teach. Um, especially if there's like a variety of people and ages and in the classroom or in the audience or wherever, and it's how many Nishnaabik or indigenous people does it take to screw in a light bulb? It's like one and three others to say that's not how I learned it. And so I kind of like as an icebreaker use that as a way to be like, yeah, and so it's like let's use as many tools as possible to be able to like isn't the the goal here to like get our language, and so if we have to do that by learning grammar using a pen and pencil, like why wouldn't I kind of thing? So yeah, I appreciate you um saying that.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:22

I have a story in the in the kind of light of in light of that that I told this past weekend at a language event with a it was all elders. We uh we had a two-day language event. The first day was like youth presentations and speeches, and the second day was elders coming and giving their presentations all and I was total immersion. It was really nice, it was really awesome. But uh, I opened it with this story that's uh I'll tell in English. But um, when I was a little boy, I went with my dad to one of his friends' house houses, and he was gonna have a sweat. And so uh there he was building the fire behind the house back there. And so my dad was gonna help him build the fire, and I was a little boy, so naturally I was helping it too. And it seemed like maybe it just rained and the the wood was still wet. But for whatever reason, my dad and and his friend, my uncle, they uh they were committed to building the fire and setting starting the fire without any paper or anything modern. They're trying to do it like old way. And uh, but because it just rained and everything was kind of wet, they were like kind of struggling and wouldn't light. And so uh my my uncle there, he uh this was here on the res. He he went back to his shed and or he said he said to my dad, he said, Do you want to want me to show you an old Indian trick? And my dad was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of excited, and then he went back to his shed and he came back with a jug of gasoline. Put it on the fire and lit up right away. Had a good sweat, but um, but uh you know, my my takeaway there as a kid, I didn't think anything of it, but now thinking back on it, you know, the teaching there is that you know, Lakota people, we've always used what's useful. If something's useful and it can be a tool, we use it. And uh so why why would we be any different with the language? Um, so you know, something's useful, whether it's a textbook or a grammar book or a podcast or or whatever it is, you know, second language learners as teachers, you know. If something's useful and helping people learn and to to not normalize the language and speak it, um street signs, whatever, whatever it is, you know, we uh why not use it? Something's useful, people will use it.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:01

I think I found my bait for the beginning of the episode. Um yeah, is there like I don't know how much time you guys have, but I would like to offer, or we, I don't know, Ozo, if you have anything else that you wanted to ask, but um, we always like to leave like a little bit of space at the end for multiple things that you'd like to share. Like this is an opportunity to um share resources that you think are helpful for other people wanting to learn L Khoto or the Kota language, places to go for school, your show, anything and everything that you know you can share with us that have helped you or that is wise or that you want to share, that would be we'd love to hear it.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:47

I'll say uh Camille's show is can be found on uh the Hoya social media channels, which is uh mainly YouTube and Facebook. And Hoya is spelled H-O-Y-E-Y A, which means to send a voice, Hoya, and is also used because you're sending a voice, it's the word we use for prayer as well. But yeah, that's just a uh kind of a social media platform that we started a few years back just for anything language. And uh, if anyone wants to publish anything in the in the language, we're open. We we haven't published anybody else's stuff besides mine and her own content, but we're open to um, but yeah, so follow us and subscribe to us on Facebook and YouTube. Uh, we also both are on TikTok and we put language content on TikTok once in a while. Uh, I've been kind of slow, well, both of us we haven't posted on TikTok in a long time. But uh, you know, we try to create content whenever we can. And uh what else? As far as if anyone's interested in Lakota language learning, I highly recommend uh the new Lakota dictionary app on your phone. Should be available on uh on Apple products and in the App Store. And then also I heard that it wasn't on Google Play Store anymore, but uh it's worth looking if you can find it. It's a free app, has a dictionary, has 40,000 plus entries and audio for all of them. And I uh I played a small role in in updating some of the undocumented words that weren't in there uh a couple years back. So uh proud of my small, very small contribution to it. But uh um it's an awesome resource that we use every day. You know, having the audio to every word is amazing, having it at the tip of your fingers, you know, like I love my print books and you know my print dictionary and stuff. But when you're when you're raising children to be able to look up a word on the fly and hear it and read example sentences, how it's used, it's just amazing. So highly recommend that. Um I don't know what else to to add as far as resources, but I also just tell everybody to uh, you know, if you're into, I'm sure everybody listening to this probably already knows, but um, you know, if you're into language revitalization, no matter what language you're you're working with, it's really helpful to look at you know what other language people have been doing, and the Maori are really inspirational. Our trip to New Zealand really changed our lives. Uh really grateful for our relatives out there, and then uh um of course uh Hawaii and the Mohawks. Uh, there's a I'm you know, I'm sure people listening to this know there's a lot of work being done with Ojibwe. Um, so those are kind of uh some of the other languages to look towards. I know there's uh one of my good friends is doing a lot of good work with the Klinge up in Alaska. So there's a you know, it's just good to network and and look to other other tribes and other nations, other languages, what they're doing, what they've done, and uh you know, just broaden your horizons. So I was about to pass it over to her, but she's on baby duty. So um, but those are some of the resources and things that I would uh advise other people to look into. It's always good to just you know keep your brain going, keep fresh ideas and uh re-evaluate, reassess the things that you're doing.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:20

Um say the lakota hui choha o tehike.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:27

You said it. That's it.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:35

So that means the lakota way of life is like hard, or it could also mean like o techike is hard, difficult, valuable, expensive. Like you kind of use that word for all those meanings. I like that. It's validating, like that's an old saying, and that's really validating to hear today in terms of language revitalization that it's hard, but it's also valuable. And I know our people, you know, historically always valued interdependence, not independence. Interdependence, like we depend on each other because we need each other. And when you need me, I'll be there. And I know when I need you, you'll be there. And I feel like that's so relevant in language revitalization. Like we need each other, our kids need each other. And I just encourage everyone to learn and to speak what you do know. And because well, I'll be out with my kids, and they'll hear someone just say, like, dokstake, like we'll see you later, and they get so happy, you know, they get so happy, and I try to also be mindful of like speaking lakota to non-lakota speaking people, like single pila, dokstake, and they'll they notice. I'm just the point is they notice, you know, and every little bit of language that they hear other people speaking is really valuable and it makes them so happy. And so I don't know. I just I just like going back to that lakota, what is it been? Lakota we chike the hard, valuable way of life, and it is, and it's super rewarding, and I love it, and it's but that doesn't mean it's easy, you know, and it's hard, but it's still really good and worth all our efforts one time I heard an elder speaker say, uh, and right away, like the the translation of that washakala means like something is inexpensive, something's cheap.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:42

And so he said the way at first I was like, the Lakota language is not inexpensive, the Lakota language is not cheap. And I was like, what? And I thought about it more, and those words ote expensive and washakala and inexpensive or cheap, they're also like things that are like like it's difficult to attain or it's easy to attain. And so I had to think about it a little deeper. And he's saying the Lakota language is not easy to attain, not something that you can just easily pick up and get. Um, so I thought that was pretty cool, just along the lines of what she's talking about. But uh I was gonna add one more thing. Oh, resources I didn't even mention. Uh, if you live in South Dakota and you want to take language classes, if you are actually it's only uh west of the West River, you have to live west of the Miss Missouri River, and you'll be in the service area of Ogalakota College, and you can take classes with us here at OLC. So um most of our classes, most of our language classes are in person though. So you'll have to come to the college center, but um, but yeah, I just want to plug the college, yeah. Nice uh proud alumni and then proud to be working there. So um come take classes at Lola Cota College, and we're we have a good language program, and we're uh looking to always improve it as well.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:05

Perfect, thank you very much. Um thank you. Okay, is there anything else that you um share or say or plug or anything? Thank you for having us. This has been fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:30

Yeah, thank you for coming on. Just we're so grateful, you guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:35

What are you about to share?

SPEAKER_06 1:46:39

If there's uh time you want to hear them introduce themselves, hear a little language.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:07

Oh, I want to say walkila and then I was like, oh, I could tell or tell them because like that's so great in my language, but I can understand anything. Oh wopila, you're so great. Or dachota moyen. Yeah. Well, it'd be really nice if we can stay connected. You guys are awesome. I'm like, I wish we were closer. We could go go have a coffee or something together.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:42

Um, I'd love to stay.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:44

Is it a wiki?

SPEAKER_02 1:48:49

We're Southern Ontario, southern Ontario, kind of between Toronto and Detroit. Okay. We're like right in the middle.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:02

Well, I want to thank you very much for coming on and sharing everything. This was like such a powerful uh episode or time shared with both of you and your family. And that was like, oh my god, like change the frequency hearing your little ones speak for me. Like, like change the actual vibrational frequency for me. That that's like so good. I'm gonna go ball when we're done. Just want to say get you again, Wopila, and um hopefully our pass across again. Yeah, such an honor meeting both of you and your and your little ones.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:41

Yeah, likewise. Um, again, just thank you guys for inviting us to the podcast. Um and uh just good to connect with other people that are uh you know putting the language before us and uh choosing that path. So we draw inspiration from you guys and happy to hear that um that we're able to give that back to you as well. So uh definitely keep in touch and uh uh hopefully we get to meet in person one day.

SPEAKER_08 1:50:15

Yeah, uh we'll peel up.

SPEAKER_07 1:50:22

Alrighty guys, take care.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:25

Take care.

SPEAKER_07 1:50:26

Okay, okay, I'm a gum. Yeah, bye. Uh I wanna cry.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:50:37

Okay, what cry or I don't care, I'll leave it in.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:51

It's just really nice hearing their little one speak. So you open it up then, because I'm just gonna keep falling. I'm gonna have to use this in the episode anyways, just to end the episode, but I'm just like, ugh. I forewarned everybody that I'd probably be crying. Um but uh yeah, just like they're like they're at least, you know a code of people, and the code of people are at least, you know, way, way back part of um where some of my roots came from, even though I'm Nishinaabe.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:34

Um but it's nice just hearing uh hearing from from them. Anywho.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:43

Anyone blow your nose?

SPEAKER_01 1:51:46

Damn, there's so much like us, Monty. Like, I I want to hang out with these guys. I want to zoom out with these guys.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:58

There's so many similarities and similar experiences. I'm like, oh, I don't think I've ever met anyone who fully encapsulated like the same experiences that we're having, being, you know, that um he's more proficient or he started before she had them, they had them during COVID. There's just so many things that I'll start. Hold on.

SPEAKER_10 1:52:23

Hold on.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:24

You're gonna blow your nose first, so you're not like Jimmy Gwetch Gob Sindalia Kenway.

SPEAKER_09 1:52:35

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast. And weighing our sound. To reach us by email, find us at our sound period podcast at gmail.com. You can find all of our links to buy me a coffee, Patreon, Instagram, etc., at our link tree, which is linktr period e slash n b dot our sound. Our theme song was done by myself, mean mushkokaboodkwe, and artwork completed by Nishime, my younger brother, Brent Beauchamp. Chimmy Gwech.