"Everything Independence"

If you ever find yourself in a fight for equity and opportunity, Texas-born Dr. Christine Drew is exactly who you’d want in your corner.

"I'm a fighter, I'm an advocate," she said. "The thing that will keep you going is the thing that breaks your heart."

For Drew, that "thing" was watching students with intellectual disabilities face unnecessary barriers. Instead of accepting the status quo, she turned frustration into action. 

Now a Board-Certified Behavior Analyst and Assistant Professor in Auburn University's College of Education, Drew has been guiding students since 2019. By 2020, she became the Faculty Research Advisor for the EAGLES Program—a groundbreaking initiative that gives students with intellectual disabilities a true college experience.

“I sort of got going in the fall of 2020 and just never looked back,” Drew said.

Started in 2018, EAGLES (Education to Accomplish Growth in Life Experiences for Success) is one of only 300 programs nationwide that provides students with intellectual disabilities access to academics, clubs, health and wellness and social opportunities—the full breadth of university life.

"Auburn is an amazing university," Drew said. "EAGLES offers two and four year options. The students follow their own path of interest and can even earn food handlers’ licenses."

As Drew worked with EAGLES students, she noticed a major challenge: the transition to independent living. That’s why she teamed up with fellow special education advocate Kristin Lombardi to co-author Spectrum of Independence – a  book designed to give parents practical tools for maximizing the independence of children with autism, intellectual disabilities, or other forms of neurodiversity.

"These parents have been fighting for their kids since day one," Drew said. "We want to give them resources to help their child thrive."

The practical book focuses on task analysis, breaking down daily lifestyle tasks into manageable micro steps, helping kids take ownership of their routines. Targeting children ages 8 to 11, Drew’s book emphasizes starting early—because building independence at home opens doors for education, employment and social opportunities later on.

"If a student arrives at college knowing how to shower, brush their teeth, make a snack and get to the bus stop, their world expands exponentially," said Drew.

Parents of neurodiverse students interested in applying for the EAGLES program can learn more at EAGLES Preview Days, scheduled for July 16 and September 16 this year.

Spectrum of Independence is available locally at Auburn Oil Co. Booksellers, on Publisher Guilford Press' website and on Amazon.

"I join the parents in the fight," Drew said. "The more parents who have this book, the more empowered they'll be—and that keeps me going."

Check out our "Everything Auburn" Podcast website here!

Transcript

0:04

Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Everything Auburn podcast. I'm Dale and that C-Money. But okay. Thats fine. I'm C-Money today. I guess I didn't know that. Yeah I just came out with that on the spot. People do call me Dale. It's a nickname I've had since college. C-Money. I learned Dale this week. Does anybody call you C-Money.? You would be the first to be the first I get, right? I get Carté a lot. I get that one a lot. That's fancy. That's about it. Okay. But welcome back. Another podcast. Another month, another month. How awesome. Hey, it's summer. It is. It's a gloomy summer. It's a rainy, soggy day to day. But it is quite awesome being here in summer. It is. There's still a great vibe on campus. Today is the first official day of camp War Eagle. So there's a lot of, you know, incoming freshmen on campus, them and their parents. And so a lot of, excitement. Yeah, I thought they don't look old enough to be students. Right. I feel like they look like they're in elementary school. The older I get, the more and more I realize how little I was when I came to Auburn, that it certainly is true. But here we are again. We got another special guest, the Auburn family. Here we do. Today we have Doctor Christine Drew. Doctor Drew welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much. I really appreciate being able to meet with you all and talk a little bit about my book. Yes, absolutely. Thank you for joining us on our rinky dink little operation we got over here. Hey, there are cameras. I'm wearing a fancy headset. I'm really I'm feeling it. It's going great. Hey, fake it til you make it. That is the name of the game. The life motto. Well, if you don't mind, just tell the people little bit about yourself. Yeah, so I am Christine Drew. I am from Texas originally, which if you meet anyone from Texas, they will tell you immediately. It's our favorite thing about ourselves. Oh, yeah. And so I lived in Texas until, got my undergrad and master's in Texas and then went to University of Oregon and Eugene, Oregon for my PhD. And then Auburn offered me a job, so I moved here. I've never really been to Alabama before. So I showed up in fall of 2019 and got a time to move, you know, across the country, you know, a place you've never been to. I was, I did the thing my my advisor will roll her eyes when she hears this. I did not finish my dissertation when I was supposed to. And so I was really finishing it up in the summer, and I defended my dissertation, had about a week, got on a plane, flew to Atlanta, started teaching, like the week after. Wow. So it was gracious. It was a wild ride for sure. And then Covid, you know, it was I honestly, I was like, okay, I'm getting into it. I was wearing business casual, I was doing and then, you know, we all went home for 2 to 3 months. You know, we just we all went home, and hung out in our houses. And, you know, we we actually ended up buying a house that summer. And so we moved into our house in Opelika, and, that we have the biggest TV, we have the nicest sound system. We were not going anywhere. We were like, we were going to set ourselves up. We built the fire pit. I have ten raised beds for my garden in the backyard. We were like, we're here, we're set. We don't need anything else so small aside here. If you will. Me and my wife get married in 2019. Covid happened. We have very typical just get married tiny little apartment. Covid happens and then we realized how small that apartment really was right. And that's what we bought our house. We about the same time as well. And yeah it's too much. We were like this is it was small, but like we weren't there 24 seven. Yeah, we so my partner and I, we've been together for 12 years. We've always lived in small places. When we lived in Eugene, we lived in a 20 by 20 cottage with a loft. Oh, fun. Yeah. So, you know, we had experiences like him cooking jalapenos in the morning and that floating up to the bed on the loft. So my my, my, my slight burning sensation. Yeah. I'm having a pepper spray experience. Yeah. First thing in the morning. So, yeah, we've lived in small places and we rented a place out in Little Texas. And of course, like one of my favorite stories about moving here is we found it on Craigslist and I call, I don't want to name drop, but the Kirk family, if you know a little Texas Kirk pine straw. They're wonderful people. And I called he called and left me message, back. And he said, well, this is Lynn Kirk, and, I'm calling you about that house now. It's a little house. It's real little, and it's in the country. And I was like, okay, so I call back, I'm like, hey, I'm from Texas, actually, not Oregon, and I have killed a snake. You know, before I lived in the country, like, you're not going to bother me. My partner, on the other hand, is a city boy. So we're gonna have to work on him. And he's like, all right, and all right. And so he says, it's real little. And I told him about the cottage and he said, let's not that little. And I was like, oh, okay. All right. Wow. Yeah. We're coming back to a place where sweet tea and people who tell you about little country houses live. And so I was like, all right, we can do this. We can live. We can live in Alabama, I love it. Well, you said you moved here in 2019, but you've been the Eagles Program faculty research advisor since 2020, correct? It took me a minute. You know, I had to gain and had to meet people. Yeah. It's, charm them, obviously with my stunning personality. And so I approached, Doctor Betty Patton, who was in charge of the Eagles program. And, you know, first I said, hey, I think we have some opportunities for preparation activities between high school and coming to college. So I was already thinking in this line of the book of preparing people for this transition because it is like you're talking about Camp War Eagle. It is a big transition. Certainly you see the 12 year olds walking around campus and they're here as freshmen and you're like, okay, right. Sure. Great. Good for you. But they're not always prepared, right? We see them shopping at Publix and buying. Yeah, things that don't make a meal. And we've all been there, right? We've all been there and they're sometimes right. A baguette and strawberries and Nutella. That's a dinner somehow. And so, you know, I was already thinking in that vein of transition. And then I also noted that, I thought something that was missing from the program was sexuality and relationship education. So I showed up and I was like, hey, here are my two ideas. And Doctor Patton. Thankfully, it was like, yes, to both. Let's like, get that going. And so, yeah, I sort of got got going in the fall and just never looked back. So we've been doing research and the transition activities and sex ed and parent training and staff training. And so, yeah, we do a lot together. And then before we get too far for anybody doesn't know Eagle's program. Yeah, absolutely. What what it what is the Eagles program. And you're in your own words, which is a great great question. So lot. Yeah. So Eagles is one of about 300 give or take programs in the United States that offer a college or transition experience for students with intellectual disability. So, you know, depending on the program, they have different requirements for attendance. But, of those 300, only about 10% are residential. So actually offer that full, you know, for good or worse, dorm life experience. Right. So we I had that experience. The dorms are much nicer now. But then every time I see one, I was like, this is an apartment. This is so apartment. And I love that for them. We had the sink and the tiny fridge and the tiny microwave. And that was your box? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a shared bathroom. So anyway. But they have to clean their own bathrooms. I didn't have to clean my own bathroom because we have, so, you know, pros and cons. But about 10% offer that opportunity. And Eagles is one of those programs. And so, you'll hear them called inclusive higher ed programs or inclusive post-secondary education programs. And they can do a lot of different things. Eagles offers the full breadth of college experiences. So, clubs, academics, health and wellness, you know, classes with Eagles and in with, typically developing peers. So yeah, they, they do it all. And these programs, some of them are two years, some of them are four years. Eagles has a two year option and a four year option where you apply, once you're done with the two years to get into the next two years. So yeah, they're doing a lot of really great stuff. That is a whole lot. But it's so cool that you get the full college experience, and it's so sad that there's it's hard to do that. And that's a novel idea. And it's not as high percentage that do that. But yeah, I'm proud that Auburn's a place that does that. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And it's something that every every university that has a program like this has chosen that there's no requirements. And we get into it a little bit in the book about the difference between, quote 12 or K to 21 transition, and college. So you have rights Ida individuals with Disabilities Education Act that entitles you to access and services for that. That does not govern college. So college is covered under the five of section 504, the rehab act. And so all you get in college is accommodations. And so, you know, there's lots of reasons for that. But our, student population, you know, with intellectual disability are invited onto campus and are included in a really meaningful way. I think, you know, people worry about and I worry about that, too, of just, you know, turning into tokenism or mascot, kind of like, oh, they're the manager of the football. It's not like that. The students follow their own path of interest. They have different concentration areas. They can study and they earn micro-credentials. So food handlers licenses, things like that. And so they are constantly expanding the program. I try to keep up as best I can, but, you know, I would I, I think that they are doing some fantastic things. And so there's always something new on the horizon for them. Yeah. Well, you just mentioned the book. You co-wrote a book called Spectrum of Independence. I did you write that? I read this morning show. I did you hear that tell you little bit about it? I did do that. It's wild when you see it in person. Well, because it was a lot of type B, type B word documents back, and I'm going to hit the microphone every time. But you know, this, like back and forth and everything is in the cloud or in these word docs. And then to get it to your house is a physical copy. And yes, pretty crazy. It is wild. And, I actually got to sign some at a book event that I did, so at Auburn Oil Company Booksellers. And so I was that was wonderful. I'm going to pitch them a little bit later too, but, but yeah, I really enjoyed it. So, Yeah. So I wrote a book, with my coauthor Kristen. We actually met at a conference at Auburn, so I know, I know, I know, and so my, Eagles was hosting a conference, subsea, which, if I had thought I had, I would have studied up on what that acronym means. Southeastern post-secondary education alliance. You just pulled out of thin air. I mean, it could be, I believe you. Yeah, yeah, could afford us. I know, I know, and it is, it's it's all these inclusive higher ed programs that are in the southeastern. So we have a ton of them actually, in the southeastern region, I wonder we're on the cutting edge. They're great. And, so we get together yearly and you know, there's conference create, we do presentations. We do, they have a, college fair where families can come and see what some of the college options are. People set up tables. So I met her there, and basically she's from New York. And so we got together and we were talking about the challenges that families face and that students face with this transition to college. Yeah. And it's and the thing that we kept coming back to when we were thinking about this book and writing is these parents have fought for these kids sometimes before they were born. Right? When the scan comes back and says, your child has down syndrome, or a blood test comes back and they have a genetic disorder, or they have had that child, everyone has told them everything's fine, they'll grow out of it. Uhhuh. And so these parents have been fighting and advocating and finding specialists, finding therapists, finding the right medications, finding the right schools, and changing schools. Sitting in, we call them IEP meetings, meetings for individual education programs, getting specialists to come into the school, all these things and getting them into college, finding out that these programs exist, finding ways to pay for it, all these things. And then they show up to campus and we say, okay, bye, see you in P c see that Thanksgiving? You know, we'll see you at Parent weekend because there's actually an acclimation period that the Eagles program has built in where parents are not allowed to come on to campus. That's tough It's good. It's good, but that's tough. It's tough. And so we just are like, okay, trust us with this precious being that you have cared for and fought for for 20 plus years sometimes. And so we we came at the book with, a huge amount of empathy for that. So saying, hey, parents, it's time to back yourself out of things, but here's how to do it systematically and not the Band-Aid rip. Yeah, that what it would be if you just showed up and dropped your kid off for college. So and a lot of it is about gaining independence and learning how to for both parent and student to. Yeah it's yep we exist yeah exists. And we again we talk a lot about this thinking of life as this menu of options and so wanting every person particularly students with disabilities children with disabilities to have the widest array of possibilities. And so when you can shower yourself, the number of places you can live expands exponentially. When you can brush your teeth, when you can make your own snack, when you can get yourself to the bus, your living situations, your employment opportunities, your social opportunities. Just expand widely. And so this book, again, we started with college in mind, and then we started writing, and then we started writing and outlining and outlining and realized this is ten books actually. You got a whole series. Yeah. Yes. I mean, basically if this one does really well, then we get to write a second book. Yeah, that's how I keep thinking of like, you know, people are like, oh, when it sells. And I'm like, so kind of the point of the sales are that then we get to write book two, and then we get to write book three. And then because so many parents, when I tell them about this book, they say, I could have used this ten years ago, I wish I had this ten. I still buy it and I'll still use it, but I really could have used this on my kid because this is aimed towards 8 to 11. Now, that doesn't mean that you can't use it with an older person with disabilities or even the younger one, but it's this idea that, you know, the earlier you start, if you are brushing your child's teeth until they're 13, then they have missed 6 to 7 years of independent practice opportunities. If you're brushing their teeth till they're 18, they've missed out on all these years. And so, our idea is that we want to we are going to back all the way down to 8 to 11, and teach them independence in the home, because that is what parents can control. That's what parents have the highest level of control over versus like, you know, and then we'll expand into the community and then expand into, education, higher education, independent living. If they let us write books two through ten, we'll see. We'll see how this one does. But we're hopeful. Yeah. And it's a lot of stuff. Imagine that, you know, that's done there is also what's done here at Auburn with the Eagle program and students here on campus. Yes. And teaching. And, I don't know, fulfilling that kind of independence. Yes. And the other thing that I think a lot of our parents don't understand when they're, assessing their child's readiness, right, is they will either because they've been through a lot of these assessments where you just talk feels like you talk a bunch of crap about your kid, because the point of the assessment is to find out what your kid can and can't do. And for our students, a lot of times it's what they can't do that becomes the focus. And so, you know, we are kind of thinking in the vein of here's what they can do, here's what we can build on. But yeah, our parents come to us and they say, oh, my kid is independent in this area. I will say, that's amazing. And then they get to campus and we find out that they were independent because Wednesday nights and Friday nights and Sunday nights were shower nights. And the routine went, you know, mom and dad and family finished dinner. Everybody sitting around, one of the parents would go, hey, it's Wednesday, hey, it's Friday. And that would prompt the young adult to go and take their shower, right. And so then the parents are like, they're they're independent. They they go to the bathroom, they wash their hair, they wash their body. And not realizing how big of a role that little it seems little. Hey, it's Wednesday. It's time to take a shower. Plays in that routine. You know, we have a parent who, you know, talked about how she her, you know, she marked down on our questionnaire, independent taking medications. But then when we got into it, do they know what the medication is? And they know why they take it? Do they know what happens if they stop taking the medication and the parent was like, I didn't think about that until you brought it up. And in her mind, she was like, oh, he was independent because I put his medicine next to his orange juice, and he independently picked it up and put it in his mouth. But at college, there's no orange juice. There's there's no of pills. You have to go and get them out of the bottle. This is something I've talked about a lot. Several people like you learned some of things at college, right. And a lot of people think about college is like, I'm learning my career and like, yeah, that's a thing that you do potentially. But it's you learn how to be a person, right. And for so many people, regardless of your situation, there's so many people that's their first time to be an independent person. Yeah. And I think more so than, like, the classes and learning a trade or learning a skill is important, but learning to be a person in college, that's what I learned more. I mean, I learned a lot, but that was the biggest thing I learned. The other thing I didn't want to ask for, we, you know, we closed on time here. It's my favorite thing to ask. Okay. It's one of the most open ended questions there is. Oh, goodness. But, is, you know, it's very clear your passion, right? And your love of what you do and why you do it. I'm curious as to where that came from. And what is it that has given you such a passion to. I mean, it's it's it's a lot of work. Yeah, yeah. It's okay. So it's it's complicated. But when I went to graduate school, we had a lecture. Recorded lecture, from Rob Horner, who is a huge name in my area of research. And he talked about finding dependent variables, which are outcomes, outcomes that break your heart. And that got to me because I was like, because the thing is, you know, again it's an upward climb when you're writing the grant or you're writing the book or you're teaching the class, it's an uphill kind of slog. And he was like, that will keep you going. It's the thing that, that, that breaks your heart. You will be inspired. You will keep moving forward toward that. And my version of that, is what drives me are things that make me really angry. Okay. Yeah. So I get I'm a fighter, I get mad about stuff. And so something that makes me really angry is exclusion. Exclusion, lack of support. We don't have to do that. So we're not gonna, phrases like in education, we owe them the forward of education, not the Cadillac of education. And you'll hear that, in special education. Yeah. Not from teachers. Yeah. Not from teachers. But, you know, this idea that we just don't owe people the thing that will help them lead the best life, and that makes me really mad. And so. Yeah. So I'm a fighter, so I, I'm an advocate. I, you know, go into meetings with school districts and I, you know, fight. Yeah. I join the parents in the fight. And so that's something that, you know, again, Auburn the Eagles program, I've advocated for different things being included. Right. I showed up, I was like, I think we need these things. And so that's the thing that keeps me going is this idea of the more parents who have this book more empowered, they are to teach their child at home the skills that the school, you know, the school can't teach showering. Yeah, right. The school can't teach the morning routine because they're not at your house. And they can teach your kid to put their name on their paper. No, no no no Shane is the kid would say but that skill, you know, when was the last time you put your name at the top of a paper versus the last time you brush your teeth, which I'm really hoping was today. It was. It was at least this week. Okay, perfect. Great. We're on the right track. Those skills go forever. Your kid may never practice a skill they learned in school. Some of them, they will, but they may never sit in a, classroom in the classic way. But they will need to brush their teeth. They will need to take a shower. They will need to make themselves a snack. They will need to, you know, transport themselves public transportation or Uber, those kinds of things. You know, we want parents to be able to to feel empowered to teach that at home and give these students the broadest set of circumstances that we can. Well, I'm, I'm very thankful that there's there there are people out there to fight. Squeaky wheel gets the grease kind of Yep. And and not don't forget about us, you know. Well in our. And that's the advice I would give the parents when I was teaching. Because as a teacher, you can only advocate so much. Right? There's the, the backlash that, you know, I don't want to say backlash, but you'll definitely get, pushback from admin or from, you know, different people. And so I would if there was a big enough problem, I would call the parents and I would say, listen, you are you have so much more power than you realize. If you call, they will take care of it. I have been advocate. Here's what I have done to advocate. And then, you know, usually that parent was the one that got the thing done. So I'm so appreciative of the parents that I worked with when I was teaching. Well, as we're kind of coming up here on time, I want to give you a chance, Spectrum Independence, your book, best places to get that, read it, to enjoy it, to learn from it. Yes. Auburn Oil Company, booksellers has they are stocking it for me, which is so kind of them. Right. They have a local author section in the store, which I love. So they have that for us. And then, of course, you can always buy it. Was published by Guilford. So Guilford's website and then on Amazon, so that those are the places and, you know, I'm really appreciative of all the support that we've gotten. And then the Eagles program here. Yes. That's the best way to kind of get more information or hear from here from you or your, your compatriots, my, my buddies. So they have a great social media presence. So they have, an Instagram and a Facebook. And then their website is a sub Skyy slash Eagles. And then they host twice yearly preview days. So these are days where families can come and learn about the program. Sometimes I speak with them. I'm more involved in the interview process and Camp War Eagle, so I'll be at Camp War Eagle with our Eagle students, doing a parent training. So it's really exciting. But the preview days, they have one in the summer that's virtual. So I think that one you're more likely be able to register for that. And so this year it's July 16th and the fall one is in person. And that one is Friday, September 16th. You definitely want to register for that ahead of time. It fills up every year. It is the Eagles program. As we all know, Auburn is an amazing university. The Eagles program is very competitive to get into. So, you know, 70 applicants for ten spots kind of numbers. So again, if families want to learn about the program and kind of think about getting their student prepared, the preview days are a great way to just see campus, hear about the program, think about ways they can start planning. And then, you know, if they have any questions. I'm here as well. But yeah, Doctor Patton is amazing. Doctor. Emory Wilson, I'm just got her PhD from Auburn as well. And so she's the assistant director. Doctor Patton's the director, and they're wonderful. Excellent sources of information. Cool. Well, wonderful. Well, thank you. And thank you for all the work you and your colleagues do. And, the wonderful Eagles program. And thank you for fighting. Hey, look, I would do it for free. I'm glad there are people that. Well, yeah, and we appreciate it. And, Will, thank you for listening, to the podcast. We'll be back next month with another wonderful guest here in the studio. And we're looking forward to it. But if you liked what you hear, you liked enjoying us talk. If you want to see our faces, we're on YouTube. You want to listen to us? We're on everywhere. You get podcast. We got. I think this is ten of them going back last few months. We got so many cool people on here. Please go listen to them. Are you listed as Simone and all of them or just. I might have to make the change. We might have to do that. Yeah. I mean, it might have to have. I might need to change. Right? I've started. So I'm afraid you have to. I'm afraid you have to. I should have thought about that. But I've well, find fine about choices. Choices, consequences. I made one tonight. Yeah, and I have to pay the consequences. So I appreciate that. You're welcome. But, we'll see you again next month. So, War Eagle, War Eagle, War Eagle.