Kings of The Road
We are two friends who went on a road trip around the United States 20 years ago to serve churches. We kept a journal as we traveled and are reading through the journal and remembering our adventures. Listen and laugh with us as we go back in time and inspire others to go on an adventure.
Kings of The Road
45: A Southern Journey with Scott Cleveland: Community, Culture, and Classic Cars
Get ready for a heartwarming journey as we welcome the embodiment of Southern hospitality, Scott Cleveland, to the Kings of the Road podcast. Scott's generosity shone bright during our memorable visit to Savannah, where he cooked for 200 people and serenaded a captivated crowd at Steadway Island Methodist Church. Relive the thrill of exploring Savannah in Scott’s vintage Jeep and experience the charm that defines our adventures.
We then dive into the unique dynamics of community ministry on Skidaway Island. Scott shares his personal journey from his Methodist upbringing to his diverse professional endeavors and unexpected involvement in church youth groups. Alongside Pastor Jim Giddens, we uncover the intricacies of building a sense of community in a gated environment, blending social fellowship with spiritual activities, and the transformative power of communal dinners.
Our conversation wraps up with a look at Savannah's burgeoning social incubator scene and Georgia's evolving cultural landscape. Discover how innovative community initiatives are taking root in Savannah, the shift from peaches to blueberries in Georgian agriculture, and the rise of rap and hip-hop as dominant music genres. Cap it all off with a dose of Southern humor and a nostalgic invitation to join us for a delightful trip to Savannah in 2025. This episode is a treasure trove of stories, insights, and laughs, all wrapped in that signature Southern charm.
Well, there went the turn.
Speaker 2:Oh, it couldn't have been.
Speaker 1:I came up so fast. Yeah, you know, 100 yards, not that far, dang it Detour, detour, detour, detour, Detour, detour, detour, detour.
Speaker 2:Detour, detour, detour.
Speaker 1:With that sound. It means that you are in a detour, we've come off the road. We are not reading from the journal today, but we get to spend time talking about other things, and today it is our great pleasure to have tracked down a man who we hold very fondly in our hearts and close in our minds as the epitome of Southern hospitality is basically what I would say. When I think of Southern hospitality, I think of Scott Cleveland is here. So welcome Scott Cleveland to the Teams of the Road podcast. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day in the midst of a tropical storm to be with us.
Speaker 1:Glad to be here, glad to be with you, and that's how a Southern man sounds, and Andrew's here too, and so we get to talk together. And so, scott, I don't know if you have listened to the episodes, but I'm assuming you're not, so I'm going to tell you. What we remember is we were coming out of the cold, cold north, and it was foggy, and we had just spent the coldest night in the motorhome that we remember in someone Virginia, right, andrew? That's right, yep, and we're driving to Savannah and we don't know much about Savannah, but we pull up to Steadway Island Methodist Church and it's a Wednesday night and you are there and you are cooking pork, tenderloin and baked apples and rice pilaf for 200 people, and you're like come on in help, and we helped you.
Speaker 1:And then, sometime during the meal, they're like it's time for Scott to sing, and you sang for the whole crowd to do some, some hymn or something. And then, um, we're, we went out and had drinks with you and you you're driving around Savannah telling us about the city and how, what, king George the third put the city down on the river to protect it from the Spanish, and we're just in awe of all of this. And then, um, and this is truly like such a memory that I will forever remember is you knocking on our door and saying Savannah is too beautiful a city to drive around the motor home? Here's my Jeep. Take this and I want you to see Savannah's Jeep. And my first car was a Jeep and it just such an awesome memory. So do you still have the Jeep? And it's just such an awesome memory.
Speaker 3:So do you still have the Jeep? Everyone wants to know. No, I do not have that.
Speaker 2:Jeep.
Speaker 3:Oh, first of all, the Jeep was probably 20 years old when you borrowed it and drove around in it Maybe so One thing that the coast is not good to are open air vehicles. Oh, that was such a great vehicle so once you get a little bit of sand and salt and you know you tend to drive in the summer with it raining a bit much and and the poor jeep actually gave up the ghost, so I I fixed it and kept it, but when, um, my left foot went through the bottom, went through the uh, I mean it was it's time.
Speaker 3:It's time to give it up, and it had major repair a few times. But, um, the good part is is, like you know, when a good person gives their body for recycling you know, for organ donation that jeep was recycled into, so its spirit is roaming around out there.
Speaker 1:Yes, other jeep wranglers, but someone might be okay.
Speaker 1:You know, now I have a pickup truck, so yeah okay, that jeep was and it had no doors and no roof and it was a stick shift and this, like it, was such a beautiful car and still I mean jeeps are so incredible and so we got driving around savannah and that thing was just so cool. The one problem we had was we didn't know how to fill it up with gas, because we stopped and we called one of our friends who had a deep rainbow. We're like where is the gas fill up on this thing?
Speaker 2:And he was like oh, around that whole thing, yeah, we're like looking underneath, it's the license plate.
Speaker 1:Right, it's the license plate, yeah, and he's like he was like where is it? And he's like he was like, where is it. He's like oh, try to flip down the license plate. We're like what, yep?
Speaker 3:there, it is, there it was yeah you know, I remember the best part was somebody in the church office said the next day well, you just gave those guys your jeep. How do you know they're going to come back? I said I have their rv so yeah, I've got yeah they've got to come back for their room and board one day. Yeah, I left their house they have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we have their house, you, they just have the jeep. Yeah, so, um, again, such special memories for us. Uh, do you have any things that we didn't know? Like, that part is funny, yeah, you just let these guys drive away in their jeep. Um, what do you remember about those days at Skidaway Island?
Speaker 3:Well, one of the reasons that. So Skidaway. I think it's funny that you all ended up at Skidaway Island because you got as far as you could get without hitting a gate. So, if people don't know, skidaway Island is one of the largest gated communities on the East Coast, so it is nine golf courses three neighborhoods, all gated communities on the east coast.
Speaker 3:So it is nine golf courses, three neighborhoods, all gated community. And one of the challenges of being church is gates and church often don't go together. Um, you know it's, and there was a little bit of a tug of war over putting a church on an island with a gated community so skid away. Made it a real purpose to be as open community as possible, and so one of the ways we did that was I wouldn't.
Speaker 3:It wasn't me cooking the meals, I was just sort of the chief cheerleader of about 15 to 20 retired folks that every week did that and the idea was, yes, you could go to the club. Most people ate lunch at the club all day long after golf or whatever, but that was the way of putting a public face to the church that we're here and just come fellowship, come get to know each other and, being a gated community, most of the people retirees from the Northeast we called a lot of previously important people pips because, they were all retired previously.
Speaker 3:important people because, they were all retired previously important people and they didn't need a whole lot. But what you did find is that they did need fellowship and they did need to be heard and they did need to find community, and especially when things would go wrong or as you got older and you couldn't play golf anymore, and there was this real niche of you know, come join us for that. That was pretty much the simple of it there was a lot of people there.
Speaker 1:I remember like 200 or so. Yeah, I think we could seat 265, 270.
Speaker 3:And so that's usually about what they were maxing out. And so that's usually about what they were maxing out. And it was a great opportunity for sort of witness and ministry because you could go play golf with a buddy and most of these pips are not going to be interested in. Do you want to come to a Bible study or whatever else? You can say hey come to dinner Wednesday night. How much does it cost Nothing.
Speaker 3:Just come for dinner, and that was always a great starting point to just let's share a meal and see where it goes from there and there was a lot of great a lot of great, a lot of great stuff that came out of that.
Speaker 3:Now, that said, jim hiddens, the minister, preaches a great sermon. So that was sort of a good way to bring people in and and that's why we started doing it. And so when I moved to savannah in 2000, um, we just said, let's it a try. I like cooking for a crowd of people. It's kind of entertaining.
Speaker 2:So what is this?
Speaker 1:What is this story? If you wouldn't mind, Like where, where were you born? You just said you moved to Savannah in 2000. Like, bring us through the quick Scott Cleveland story.
Speaker 3:All right. So I, I've been United Methodist my whole life, sort of church as a church background. In my southern half of my family we were all Methodist, and my northern side which were German, czech kind of folks, they were United Brethren, which is an old you know Lutheran-esque Lutheran spin off part of the Wesleyan tradition. So I grew up in the church and grew up in Atlanta.
Speaker 3:when Atlanta was exploding, a lot of people would say I don't have much of a Southern accent, but that's because I mean Atlanta went from one million to five million in my 20 years of growing up, so everybody was from somewhere else.
Speaker 3:But I went to college and graduate school. I studied economic development in college and in graduate school and in graduate school got to spend time in the West Indies and Central America some. And then um in the I went was in graduate school in the UK when the UK was not the dynamic, healthy place it is now. Um, in the early eighties, those Matt Margaret Thatcher days, there was lots of poverty, lots of displacement, lots of lots of just urban decay. You know all these cities now like manchester and glasgow and all those that are just wonderful. Now we're all in a bad way.
Speaker 3:And so through all that, I sort of I, when I look into in the hindsight I was wanting to go into the international business but I came back was selling chicken um internationally for a company in Atlanta. We were selling 40,000 containers of chicken and one of the partner's sons said do you want to come to my basketball game or baseball game? Do you want to come to my baseball game? And I did. And then he said, hey, my church youth group is looking for some adult leaders. Would you be interested? And I said, well, let me go meet and see or whatever. And I got involved with this youth group. That again everything in Atlanta was growing.
Speaker 3:I mean you are halfway good at being church. You open the doors and there were 3000 people.
Speaker 2:You know a couple of years later.
Speaker 3:And all these little rural churches that Sherman burnt down during the Civil War, all had 10,000 members.
Speaker 1:You know whether it's Little Baptist.
Speaker 3:Little Methodist, so anyway. So I went and volunteered for a little while and I'm selling chicken on the side all over the world and um, and anyway they had this big youth group just kept growing and he was. They were like you know, we need somebody to help administrate this, you know, and all of a sudden I never thought of myself as being called into ministry, but I was definitely called into ad ministry.
Speaker 3:And you know and and that's, and. So long story short. They ended up offering me to come on staff and we started doing youth ministry. Then in the early nineties it was old school youth ministry when people brought their kids and we had 350 kids at youth group and it was huge. I mean, the church at that point was about 7,000 members. But I remember I've also come to the understanding church can only be so big, because once you get too big then there's no accountability. You know nobody misses you. I know small groups might miss you and that.
Speaker 3:But you know the big picture is I've always thought about 12,. 1500 is about the right size of a church. You have enough resources but you don't have too many people that you lose track, you know.
Speaker 3:And so a friend of mine asked me if I'd like to come work as a church administrator program in middle Georgia in a little town called Jackson, and I said yeah. And so this lady, that, um, that's dad, sold this is very Southern for you. So in the 1920s her dad, um, her dad, sold cotton fields because um bull weevil was coming from Alabama and her dad was smart, so Sarah Bond, that's her name and her dad's like I'm going to sell my farm, we're going to get rid of this land. So 1925, 26 coming in there, he sold all his farmland, 1200 acres, and he went and bought a little stock in the small bank and the small drink company.
Speaker 3:The small drink company was Coca-Cola and the other was Trust Company, which y'all be into the West, but Trust Company is one of those institutional banks of the South and so the mid-20s her dad. So she literally told my friend she goes a if I like him and b if it's a him. So she was old school.
Speaker 3:You know she was okay yeah, if I like him and he's a him I will pay his salary for the first year and if he fails it's on him. If he succeeds, I'll take care of the second year. And so, literally, I said well. And so we negotiated a salary, went down there and was there for a decade. It was fantastic. That would have been nineties in.
Speaker 3:That would have been pretty much the nineties and the very 2000, 2001,. Right in there and um we ended up. It was like. It was like going back into a Norman Rockwell um suburban Atlanta had not swallowed it up. It back into a norman rock club um suburban atlanta had not swallowed it up, it was still a small town with city. You know cities, you know town hall in the middle and first baptist is on one side, first methodist on the other.
Speaker 3:All the kids were either in the band cheerleading or in the football team, you know wow or they were the goths that had their own cool edge, but you were one of those four. You know it's like and it was, but it was like it was. It was old school and it was fantastic. It was um. The church was very involved in the community, lots of leadership in the community in the church, but it was old school again it was. It was a very old school kind of church environment and what I love about that is those kids are now in their 40s, who have kids that are six, seven, eight years old, and I've godfathered all these tons of kids. We have relationships.
Speaker 3:Those are all held on and people want to come to Savannah, so it's been a real blessing.
Speaker 3:I often think if I had stayed selling chickens I probably could have made a bunch of money. I have to say church has not made me poor. So you know I'm going to say that's another end of it. You know church has been a good thing, but I think people want relationship, which is what you guys are sort of building on. And so in Jackson it was building long term family relationships. About 600 people in the church, everybody knew each other and two of the more profound things that I learned in Jackson One was my very first paycheck from the church.
Speaker 3:This little guy, levi Ball, came in and he was all quiet and he sat down. He says I need to give you something and, almost like the Japanese, hand you a business card with two hands. He handed me my paycheck, very first paycheck. And as I'm about to take it, mr Ball, his family owned the mill. So you get this. He's the guy, the treasurer for 50 years or whatever. And I'm like what is it? And he said I just want you to remember that this paycheck represents the hard earned money that people put in the offering plate to the glory of God. And I hope every day you'll work to live up to that. Wow, and and I've actually used that in front of paid ministers, I mean, that was that was a profound, that was a profound that was a moment.
Speaker 1:That is a profound moment.
Speaker 3:It could have been him coming as a jerk. I'm the treasurer, I give the most money, blah blah. But it didn't come that way. It was literally. This is hard-earned money, put in that offering plate and you need to work and live to the glory.
Speaker 1:Very reverent yeah.
Speaker 3:And then the other thing was I loved watching how people that didn't like each other, disagreed with each other, had had access to grind for 50 years, could put them down outside the parking lot, come into church and be family.
Speaker 3:And I think that's one of the things that sort of saddens me about the church now is it seems to be very difficult for people to disagree, be on opposite sides, even have bad history, I mean, and I knew people who would like silly things Like you'd ask like now why did Tom not like him? Well, because he got his girlfriend and married her.
Speaker 3:You know like maybe that kind of thing, Like he got his girlfriend in high school and married and they've been angry at each other for 20 years but they could come to church, you know, or I found out you know one person. You didn't know but she had an affair with her husband. It's like everybody could get you know. It's a small town or talk about, you know, bad bank loans that went off. He ran against me in school board, all those human things you know.
Speaker 3:But they could walk into church and you could put all those things aside, and so I think that reverence for the people that are the church and the ability to to be the church and not drag the world into it um is, is something that Jackson sort of showed me, taught me, and I think that's why we sort of I mean, I literally have family that are friends, friends that are family that come out of that hole. Yeah, yeah, that that's, that's at home, that yeah, so then, what brought you to savannah?
Speaker 1:how so? What brought me to?
Speaker 3:savannah is, uh, my friend alice rogers, who was the minister there, um she um served candler school of Theology as our local Duke Divinity School. Perkins at SMU and then Candler at Emory are sort of the local seminaries you know for United Methodist Church. And so Jim Giddens, who was the pastor at Skidaway, had had a couple of associates. In our system you get appointed an associate and so you have to hope, a the associate has the skill set you need. B you have to hope they get on with the existing staff and pastor. And C you have to hope they match the congregation. And so all three of those and, as I mentioned, being a gated community with a lot of previously important people, skidaway was not an easy place to light.
Speaker 3:And so they had been through two or three appointed associates and it was just terrible. And so Jim just called me up one day and said I want to hire you to come down here. What would it cost to move you here? And I said I'll be happy to move down, gave a house and, like I said, paid well. But again, jim was brilliant at ministry. What he needed was Was somebody that would do the ad ministry you know, and and that was where we really leaned into active missions, active fellowship.
Speaker 3:We didn't. We felt fellowship ran right in there with preaching the word, like preaching the word and evangelism need a social component, a fellowship component.
Speaker 1:So, we.
Speaker 3:We always thought that serving a meal and being in ministry all ran together. Those we had a huge breakfast that all these men would come to and there were several retired ladies that would do it. It was fantastic. And, um, uh, all along the way, just being at the table always, um, was an important part of Skidaway. Um, there's someone. There's someone I know in life who says ministry is three things just being at the table, always was an important part of Skidaway.
Speaker 1:There's someone, there's someone I know in life who says ministry is three things telling stories, praying for people and throwing parties. And it's like I hear that and what you're saying, like there's just something about gathering around, being together, laughing, having food, without really an intentional, like we are here to study the book of john right now. You know it's like let's be together, let's laugh, let's.
Speaker 3:Let's a soft place to have pork, tenderloin and baked apples and rice but anyway, that's so, that's how I ended up, ended up in savannah and um and and it was. It was great one of I'll have to toot my own horn. We have an award called the Denman Award, which is given for clergy and lay leadership and evangelism. And because of church growth that came through that dinner the National Church gave me the Denman Award, actually helped me get the um. So pork loin led to uh, you know, led to um, to denominations, um, denman award for evangelism and leadership.
Speaker 1:So it that was showing up on that Wednesday was that the spirit of that night was very intentional. Yes, it was very intentional to be with people who, people don't know each other, everyone's welcome, everyone come as much food as you want, be here, good food, good fellowship and like because that's what we experienced was just an enjoyable.
Speaker 2:Oh, man yeah we did Night meal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, felt warm, felt welcomed, and I imagine that so many other people who just lived there were like, oh, that was really great just to be there and that was the deal is, you'd get to know the community and the community would get to know you.
Speaker 3:And one of the things that I thought was powerful is we never did a Bible study. We had plenty of Bible studies. There were Bible studies all through the week. It's retired folks, so you could have Bible study all week long, you know. But what I always found powerful is there was usually music. Savannah is a very musical city.
Speaker 1:So the Savannah.
Speaker 3:Jazz Festival, savannah Music Festival. There's tons of music in Savannah, and so what we would find is almost like a medieval banquet have dinner, have a little bit of entertainment and then and then afterwards there would always be like five or 10 minutes Y'all might not remember a prayer request and that would almost just here in the whole room, and I would often be amazed at how people like brand new to the space, like maybe they knew Joey played golf with or whatever, but you know they weren't confident.
Speaker 3:Long-term members would be standing up saying you know, my wife just got news on cancer. Long-term members would be standing up saying you know, my wife just got news on cancer.
Speaker 3:You know, my son's in rehab for the second time, you know, and and people would share, and I think the spirit of the room made people more comfortable to share those kinds of things and I think they felt it was a room that would embrace your needs, your, your, your wants, you know, those things that you're bringing to the community and to God and prayer. I think they felt a little, a little more warmer reception to that Um, but it was uh, um, yeah, it was, it was a great place. And then in um, in 2000 and um, well, I got jumped for that. So in 2014, 2015, um, we'd had pastoral leadership change. I'm sure y'all have been through some of that. Some churches you've been around.
Speaker 3:And then I had a couple of health issues that I needed to work on, so I took a break. Church can become grueling, as you probably well know yeah, it's just nonstop, and I was like I wanted to do something different and go back to that. You know, when I first got involved, like in graduate school, economic development, the needs of people. You know, I always think it's important that Matthew 25 starts off with feed my sheep before we get to the go, make disciples of all nations, because I do think you need to do a little of that. And so, through the connections of Skid Away Methodist and through my own getting to know the community, as you can tell, I'm a people person, so yeah, I got to know Savannah, and that's where we went out and started gathering funds.
Speaker 3:It's Urban Fix.
Speaker 3:I'm gathering funds to help senior adults stay in their houses and then what I was able to do is become a clearinghouse for groups that want to come to Savannah to do that kind of work, and so there's lots of volunteer work and over the course of last decade we have tiny houses that were built for veterans. We got involved in Family Promise, which is nationwide I'm sure they're in Orange County but we did some transition three transitional houses for them. We just worked on a lot of good housing projects. Three transitional houses for them. We just worked on a lot of good housing projects.
Speaker 3:And then I got back involved in the church organizing missions for Wesley Monumental, where I am now.
Speaker 1:So I enjoy getting involved. Go ahead that mission organization for the building thing. Two questions. The first is is that something you started then in Savannah by gathering those resources and putting that all together Okay? Secondly, could Andrew and I come out and do a Kings of the Road mission trip and fix houses in Savannah and eat at Mrs World's boarding house? Is that still?
Speaker 3:a possibility. I mean, here's the deal we do that, we do that, we do that all the time. That's on the table. Yes, that's on the table.
Speaker 1:Matter of fact I had. We got our plans, andrew. We know where we're going.
Speaker 3:We had five groups this summer, so we had five groups come through this summer.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you need to plan ahead.
Speaker 3:But again back to letting you all borrow a Jeep. One of the things that I really enjoy is when people come to Savannah. Even I have friends that go to Atlanta or come to middle Georgia. You know, I'm just sort of proud to be a Georgian and I enjoy telling people what to go eat, what to go see and what to go do and and yeah that's, and we enjoy showing off Savannah. I think Savannah is also a small enough place that you can talk about the microcosm of, of, you know, economic challenges, racial issues you can talk about, you know. I mean climate change has become very evident in the last two or three years in Savannah Sea level rise, weather change, there's just lots of you can have a good, wholesome, hearty conversation.
Speaker 3:You know I might theologically and I like the way you mentioned sort of you need a little bit of adventure, you need to do a little travel, you need to bring people together and I just one of the reasons I've always had a problem with sort of the Christian faith often boils down to me plus Jesus equals heaven and now we can move on.
Speaker 2:Faith often boils down to me plus Jesus equals heaven and now we can move on, and as a United.
Speaker 3:Methodist and John Wesley came to Savannah is that we always believe that you're on a pathway to perfection and that perfection only comes at death. And the more we do to love and to serve and to be in fellowship and to do adventure, like you said, the more adventure we have in our faith, life sort of, the better that pathway is. Now I can slink along the pathway and be perfectly fine and Jesus will welcome me at the other end. But if we're on a pathway to perfection, we might as well make it the most active, glorious adventure in that pathway, because you only get it once.
Speaker 3:I mean we're mean, we're not we know we're not going to get this twice you know so why not make the most of of the pathway jesus is calling you on now, you know?
Speaker 2:rather than you know um the knot, so absolutely yeah, the best way to travel down a path is with a open top jeep, right is that exactly yeah, exactly, so it's perfect yeah, and a group of hobbits around you the conclusion of today's episode, or the is is the jeep is the most holy of all vehicles is that what we're?
Speaker 2:yeah, maybe I draw some odd conclusions from time to time, but but no, that's great. I mean for us so much of what you said has resonated with kind of what this trip ended up being with. You know, just going and meeting new people in different areas and seeing sort of how they do church together and having that aspect of what you guys called your family dinners and we tried to have family dinners all along the way, Right and just meeting different family members. So it was. It was very cool and great to hear your story and how, how all of that came to be, and I also love just that. This was never your intention, you know, like I I know Scott, scott and I knew each other from high school and even from the time that I met Scott when he was a sophomore in high school, he knew he was going to be a pastor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know I'm one of those odd ones about like this is, this has always been where Jesus is, like you're gonna end up doing ministry when I was in middle school and so just stayed focused on that and I've been very grateful for that. But I do recognize that I'm like, oh, I'm the exception here. Most people are more like Andrew or like you, where it's like four or five different career paths that are kind of twangled, and also like, oh, this is where I'm getting spit out to serve in this place and it's been. It's such a wonderful, wonderful thing to hear and just to to acknowledge that what we discovered was exactly what you were going for was a place to feel warm, a place to feel welcomed.
Speaker 1:And for us, I, in my mind, just am always comparing our coming into Boston, where we struggled to find anybody to serve and we ended up serving at a seafarers mission downtown because there just weren't, no one was saying yes to us. I was calling, calling, calling. And then the Savannah um, you know, we serve Stadaway Island. We served at the Wesleyan center, um, and we served another church that we just talked about downtown. What was that church, andrew? Do you have that written down? I think it was just Christ church Savannah, maybe, yeah, written down.
Speaker 1:I think it was just christ church, if I'm not christ church in savannah maybe yeah yeah, I think it's the oldest church in savannah, is that right?
Speaker 3:it was probably their emmaus house. Emmaus house is their um, their service to the homeless and low income but we actually hung out their youth group.
Speaker 1:We hung out their youth group and played music for them and stuff. So, um, but just we found all these like soft landings and and it was really the the vision of this was saying we don't know the family we're going to meet yet, but but we're excited about meeting them. And so that's why when I, when I called you know, I just Googled Steadway Island, methodist and I'm like I'm just going to see if, if Scott's still there, or if I can get in touch with him from there. And the woman who answered did not immediately know you, but the person behind was like wait, who are we talking to? And then knew how to get in touch with you.
Speaker 1:And I feel like that's the same thing that happened when I called the first time. Like the secretary is like what do you guys want to do? And you may have been walking by Scott at that point being like that's fine, tell him to come and go from there. And it's just like it's just that, that attitude and that atmosphere of like yeah, let's see, let's see what the next thing is.
Speaker 3:And the next person we meet and the next person we serve. So what if I have a fault? I tend to lean into yes and I want you to prove no, rather than a lot of people lean into no and want you to prove yes. You know what I mean, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, I, you know, I get that my soul, Scott.
Speaker 2:Hawkins knows exactly what you mean because because I feel like I'm talking to two of the same person right here, where it's just like oh, I hadn't even considered no-transcript. It was yeah it's such a good.
Speaker 1:It is. It's so much fun and just the gospel and the opportunity to spread the gospel in that way. So what are you doing right now then? What's the current Scott Cleveland ministry happening?
Speaker 3:I mean one of the fun things, this is not really ministry. Well, I guess it is. A friend of mine, christian Swales, started a nonprofit called Code Creation and our city has spent a lot of money on because we have the second largest port. We might beat Lark Beach in the next couple of years, but we have an incredibly busy port.
Speaker 3:And so they're doing a lot of tech-based entrepreneurial development, trying to do all this high-end tech development for the port, streamline, all that kind of stuff. And we decided what would happen if you did a social incubator? So in other words, the city will spend all this money doing business incubating to make the port a better place. We have all these intractable social issues in Savannah. What if we created a social innovation incubator? And this is Christian's idea. What if we created a social incubator in Savannah that would help small nonprofits? Some little grandmother on the west side of Savannah that says if I could just do X, y and Z, I could address this problem, but she doesn't have either the funding or the structure or the skills. And it's literally using all of those asset-based community development ideas and bringing small groups together.
Speaker 3:So at Wesley, where I am now, we've had a group for six weeks that are sort of pitching, almost like you're in Silicon Valley, pitching nonprofit ideas. And how could we bring together community assets to help you address those issues that you see? Awesome, and Andrew, to that point I'm learning to do really kind. No, because I mean there are times when you say, honey, I hate to tell you, but there are three other groups that already do that. You know, go join that. Right, right right. You see what I mean. There are times when you say honey, I hate to tell you, but there are three other groups that already do that.
Speaker 1:You know, go join that Right right right. You see what I mean.
Speaker 3:So you know there is but it's been really cool. It's been a really cool thing that is cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's been a really cool thing, sort of came up and sort of identified and we help them with things like board development. Um, you know, do you always need more money? I mean, all non-profits always want more money is money necessarily what you need, or do you need a better board to connect you, better resources, all that kind of thing? So so, that's that's sort of what we're. We've been working on that, which has been a good thing. So, um, so, no, that's. That's been a little project we started and a couple of city aldermen are interested and what we're trying to tell the city is, rather than throwing money at things, why not find people in the community that that their community is identifying the issues and they're beginning to identify a way to address them? You know, why don't we trust people in the field to figure it out? So right, that's one of those.
Speaker 1:Empower them to do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, empower them to do it.
Speaker 1:How big is Savannah?
Speaker 3:savannah, like what's the, what's the population generally well, the the metropolitan area now is about 300 000 um. Oh wow, it has doubled in size since you came um and and in the by 2030 we're gonna have another 100 000 people because what's happened is the port's incredibly busy. So all this shipping industry, warehousing has come. And then Hyundai is building the largest electric car plant, about 10 miles west of.
Speaker 3:Savannah, and then the battery plants and everything that goes through with that. And then there's some in Bryan and Liberty counties which are south of Chatham County. It's going to end up like it'll be like South Florida when I'm an old man. It's going to look like South Florida. It's going to be just retirees, no, no, no, just chock-a-block neighborhoods. It's all cotton field. What I mean by Florida. If you fly over Florida or you fly over parts of California you'll just see the house after house after house after house.
Speaker 1:That's it, and we're, we're about to be.
Speaker 2:we're about to be at that point shortly, so but so so insider real estate tip go buy property in. Savannah two years ago. Is what you're saying Correct? Okay, correct. Or you should have bought a house.
Speaker 3:You should have bought a house in Malibu in 1950.
Speaker 2:You know that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so cool. I mean that that whole idea about you know really what it comes down to, is like connecting people and connecting community, which again is a big theme of what, what we did. But, um, you know, I recall I went to business school and I had this professor who, um, he's a founder of a restaurant chain out here called Wahoo's fish tacos and his superpower was connections and building relationships. And so they're. They're kind of a niche sort of Southern California fish taco, surf skate, bmx sort of place and he would talk about he led a marketing class and he was like I don't pay for the furniture in my stores because I get the surf brands to put logos of their athletes on our tables.
Speaker 2:We don't pay for cups because I got my buddy down at this clothing company to put their logos on. And he just talked about like I was the only vendor allowed at this golf tournament because I brought everybody lunch and it was. It was like to your point, it's like it's not about just raising money and just the hard business of raising capital doing the thing, but it's the resources are there and if you connect the resources in the right way, then money kind of gets out of the equation and you can just make so much more happen and it's so much more meaningful that way. So what a cool thing that you're doing.
Speaker 3:And it's not just me, there's a whole group of people, but it's Christian Swales brought it to our attention and he's actually working on the program. Great guy Lives downtown Savannah, so our Wesley Monument, where I am. If you don't show up with more than 20 people, we have a retreat center on the river, on the Moon River, made famous by Johnny Mercer, so y'all can always come down and stay there.
Speaker 1:So we need 20 people less. He's our spiritual director out there.
Speaker 3:Well, you could bring 15 with 15, that's fine 15 great we could do that 10 to 15 would great yes 10 to 15 listeners.
Speaker 1:We're going to go to savannah 2025.
Speaker 3:We're going to serve the city again. Fly direct to los angeles, to savannah oh perfect what airlines, allegiance or delta.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I have to tell you california folks.
Speaker 3:So during covid um, our governor, our governor was not particularly keen on clothing closing down much, and so savannah closed for about six months, and when the gates opened tourism just exploded. But because, the film industry is so big in Georgia. Now, if we look out our front window, there are four houses across the street. Two are from Los Angeles and one's from New York via Los Angeles. So the amount of people that moved to Savannah from California during COVID and after the number all for the movie industry.
Speaker 3:And another exciting thing that happened right after COVID is we had um, our next door neighbor. They rented their house for 30 grand to film a movie. They rented our driveway for three grand to rent a movie and but here's the great part, we got, um, we got. Clint Eastwood's last movie was filmed in our next door neighbor's house and I have a picture of Clint Eastwood sitting under a tent directing the final scenes. So I'm going to put a little marble thing that says Clint Eastwood producing Clint Eastwood final scene.
Speaker 3:Yes, so California's discovered Savannah. It's kind of a problem. Oh well, here's the thing, Scott, we were first.
Speaker 1:We discovered in 2004. It's kind of a problem. Oh well, here's the thing, Scott, we were first. We discovered in 2004.
Speaker 3:That's right. Yeah, you were the first we should have bought.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We should have bought. We should have bought. We've discovered a few things on this trip you should have done. I don't know if you. You must be familiar with the shoes, crocs yes. Yeah, you must be familiar with the shoes Crocs. Yes, we discovered Crocs on our road trip.
Speaker 1:We were the first ones to find those from California did you buy stock?
Speaker 2:no, because we thought they were so stupid and ugly and we're like these aren't going to catch on and they're still stupid and ugly.
Speaker 1:They're still stupid and ugly, but everyone swears they're the most comfortable shoe, oh man, yeah, there's a few things like that a blue moon beer.
Speaker 2:They're still stupid, ugly, yeah, but man are they popular, yeah. Oh man yeah.
Speaker 3:There's a few things like that.
Speaker 2:A Blue Moon beer which became very popular yeah. We had some of the first sips of that at Coors Brewery in Golden, colorado, yeah, and then Savannah.
Speaker 1:I didn't realize how much of a trailblazers we are.
Speaker 3:Did you eat at Mrs Welch when you were here?
Speaker 1:Oh, we sure did.
Speaker 2:Yes, we did.
Speaker 1:You'll have to go back.
Speaker 1:We have a cliffhanger in our episodes because we have not yet talked enough about Mrs Wilkes. We keep thinking it's the next day and then it's the next day and everybody who tells me, go to Savannah, I'm like let me tell you a couple of places you have to eat. That is, go to Savannah. I'm like let me tell you a couple of places you have to eat. And that is the first one I tell them. And then I was like, well, show you a Paula Deen's. I'm like that's fine, but Mrs Wilkes is the, that's the place.
Speaker 3:But I will say, when you bring your group of 15, I'm going to take you to some fabulous African-American churches that cook an entire buffet of soul food and little retired ladies who need a little extra retirement income. Cook all the food and you pay 10 bucks and you get the best oxtail smothered, chick turkey wings, um whole bunch of good stuff. So we'll, it's. It's fantastic.
Speaker 1:We've already this trip is playing.
Speaker 3:It's already happened, it's already happening, it's booked.
Speaker 1:We just need to get the dates on the calendar and then they're happening. So I decided to give. We're also going to transition to a defender state um part of the podcast soon, but I decided to google or actually chat gbt, what are the 10 common stereotypes about the state of georgia, and I want your reaction to these as well, as if you have more that you might add. So these are the 10 that chat gbt, the knower of all things, said uh, first, southern hospitality, which I mean it doesn't matter than that, no two sweet tea lovers.
Speaker 1:That's a thing that we discovered in the south, that you guys guys rot your teeth with sweet tea.
Speaker 3:I will give a caveat to that. A lot of people are doing half and half. And that's true in white Georgia. In African-American Georgia it tends to be red fruit drink. When you come to Savannah. You need to Google around red fruit drink.
Speaker 1:Red fruit drink. It could red drink it'd be.
Speaker 3:There could be anything from tahitian treat to red kool-aid, but they just just just red fruit drink in general. Okay, I didn't know that so sweet tea is for white folks predominantly.
Speaker 1:So anyway, there you go okay I didn't know that okay, okay, um three is the peach obsession, which of course, georgia peaches. That's an easy one, hold on.
Speaker 3:Like our blueberries are now better than our peaches.
Speaker 2:The weather's changing, oh really. So our blueberries are better than our peaches Yep. Interesting. Regarding peaches, I know that well they must. You must grow a lot of them there, but do people really, are they, obsessed with peaches? I know that you must grow a lot of them there, but do people really are they obsessed with peaches? Or it's just that they're grown and they get exported?
Speaker 1:Good question.
Speaker 2:Or is there a lot of peach cobbler at every meal? Is that really something? I think?
Speaker 3:there's a lot of peach cobbler in that. What I've heard this is a rumor is that South Carolinians believe they make the best peaches, grow the best peaches period and somebody I read one time that back in the state legislature wanted to claim to be the peach state to try to get that moniker away from South Carolina. Who knows If you draw. I mean because we actually make more, grow more blueberries and more pecans than we do, and in South Georgiaia big fat oranges those things are growing like crazy just on the georgia florida border.
Speaker 1:So interesting, yeah, so see it's always interesting, oh yeah yep, oh yeah so for sure and there's always a reason behind a lot of that stuff which we use. You claim you don't have a southern or much of one, and I agree it's lighter, but everyone would say, yeah, scott has a stud, stockley has a southern accent and um, and we got I think it was in stidaway island where we had some of your youth look at us and say you guys sound like newscasters. And I was like, oh, I never heard you, ever heard my voice be called the newscaster voice before. But California is known for its non-regional dialect, so I guess that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I will have to find every Christmas Again. We're a very traditional church Wesley Monumental we did the nine lessons and carols where they read the nine lessons, and there's a woman by the name of Camille who's in her nineties, who taught school for 70 years and you have never heard Luke two read better than when she stands up in that perfect, well-educated, multi-generational Southerner and when she says when a decree went out from Caesar Augustus. It I'm going to see. The whole room goes silent, just waiting to hear because she sounds like your grandmother and your great-grandmother.
Speaker 3:That's disappearing. That southern is disappearing.
Speaker 1:Is it really that bad for all because of Californians coming in and stuff?
Speaker 3:Which is television and kids are on. Okay, think about it Kids are spending more time listening to tick tock than they are. Listen to their friends, good point.
Speaker 1:That's the same.
Speaker 3:Yeah so they're.
Speaker 1:They're here in the non-regional dialect, so it's just going away. That's good. You're news broadcasting, it's blending all together. Yeah, so funny, I had never thought of our you, scott, but I did six years in Birmingham. I did ministry in Hoover outside of Birmingham and I discovered the football love there. Like they just looked me in the eye and said do not plan anything for falls or Saturdays in the fall.
Speaker 3:Because no one will. So I'll give you an example Any church with a brain, any church, the first thing they're going to do is they're going to have the UGA schedule, because all football doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:It's not that football matters, it's Georgia matters to Georgia.
Speaker 3:The Gamecocks matter to. South Carolina.
Speaker 1:You know, that's the deal the roll tides, the Gators.
Speaker 3:Exactly. And so you have to plan worship. And I swear the choir director will ask when the Georgia games are, because she knows choir members are going to come in hungover or late. And so I mean they literally. I mean it affects church, you know it is. It is the second religion, so it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is, and I would tell my California, I tell, tell my friends in California and say they love college football like we love nothing. There is nothing I can compare the passion to that college football has.
Speaker 2:That doesn't exist here no. No.
Speaker 1:Like there's Laker fans and there's Dodger fans. Of course there are. There's millions of them, but I don't look at the schedule and go when are the Lakers playing in order to plan that retreat or that thing. Not even a thing.
Speaker 2:There's nothing everybody here is unified around like that. I'll give you one other quick example.
Speaker 3:The South Georgia conference. We have a bishop, we have everything the way it's set up politically in our system. We had a bishop from Tennessee and we could never have a conference without there being competition between the Tennessee Bishop and the UGA congregants out front, and it would always go back and forth. He'd come out with his Tennessee button on and just give each other a drink.
Speaker 1:So, yes, football matters. They know, yes, they know. So this one Country Music Enthusiasts was its number six. Does that feel true anymore?
Speaker 3:I would say no because, first of all, atlanta, macon, even Savannah, are now some of the top rap and hip hop producers in the country, right, yeah, I mean. And then when I think of like medium-sized towns like Augusta, georgia, macon, milledgeville, madison, athens, they all have small band like create the kind of bands that Portland used to, you know what I mean. Okay, you know those kind of small bands. They've got good, healthy, local music. So, yeah, I would say I think that's faded some that's faded too, I agree.
Speaker 3:Slow pace of life, no more laid back, not anymore, right that's it's hard to find laid back Georgia, I would say, oh love it I mean George, conservative politics Pretty. Yeah, that's number nine, Although you know we seem to be a little purple lately.
Speaker 1:So Right Right, although you know we seem to be a little purple lately, right right, things are changing a little bit. And then the 10th is one of my favorites that it popped up with Love for fried food, that is true, saw a sign, saw this big sign that was a foot.
Speaker 3:It was like a foot tall and like eight feet long tin sign that said if it ain't fried, it ain't food, and I wanted to buy it for the kitchen. It was this big tin thing um, but yeah there's nothing better than the perfectly fried shrimp, perfectly fried chicken.
Speaker 2:You know you can't beat it.
Speaker 1:it's a. It's a gift of the gods. Fried food is a gift of the gods. When, yeah, when, I moved from alabama to california, um, I was expecting everything to cost more, everything to be more expensive. And I called about the insurance. My health insurance is like $300 a month cheaper and I'm like what? This is crazy. And the insurance person said well, let me tell you two things. The first thing is the state of Alabama is locked up with Blue Cross of Alabama or Blue Shirt of Alabama, so it's a monopoly there. So they have the prices. Okay, I get that. Number two you're moving from the 49th healthiest state to one of the first healthiest states Because all they're eating is fried food now. And I was like, okay, that all tracks. I understand why people are just a little bit healthier out here, but boy do I miss the good old days of, yes, fry that.
Speaker 3:Macaroni and cheese is a vegetable. Yes, please, and I'm not just saying that it's a competitive state, but there is a huge economic development difference between Georgia and Alabama. You know there's Well, I know that. There's a huge and again that leads to all of those. You know lots of things that make health less life less healthy.
Speaker 1:Well, you also have the Alabama favorite saying of praise the Lord for Mississippi, so we're not 50th and everything.
Speaker 3:That is true.
Speaker 2:My mother's family's from Mississippi.
Speaker 3:And they used to tell another joke, which I don't know whether I can say this on a good Christian thing, but have you ever know, have you ever heard the joke? Do you know why all the trees in georgia lean west while the trees in mississippi lean east? What? Because alabama sucks. That's an old football joke. That's an old football joke, so you may have to edit that one out.
Speaker 2:So no, we can do that that stays in, that is good. Oh man, those are good times.
Speaker 1:Hey Scott thank you so much and, if you're listening to this, be one of the 15 people to come with us to Savannah summer of 2025. Boom, there we are.
Speaker 2:Now you're committed.
Speaker 1:We'll see. I'm in, andrew, I think, as he leans. No, we have to convince him slowly, but he'll get there. He always does.
Speaker 2:It's going to be an easy sell, I'll tell you. Yeah, I wish I were there right now.
Speaker 1:I wish I was there right now. Hey, this has been so much fun. Thank you so so much for our time together.
Speaker 3:I hope we had the conversation you thought we would so enjoy talking with me. We so enjoy talking with us.
Speaker 1:We totally, totally had it. So hello guys, thank you and see you on the flip side. Bye, Take care.