How To Elevate Your Makeup Business: Pricing, Content & Confidence with Kellsie Bain

In this episode, I sit down with makeup artist Kellsie Bain to talk about what it really takes to grow a successful makeup business. We cover everything from raising your prices as a makeup artist, building a professional portfolio that attracts brides and clients, and overcoming money blocks and imposter syndrome.

Kellsie also shares practical tips for creating high-quality makeup content for Instagram, using content creation skills to elevate your brand, and how to confidently show up in front of potential clients. We dive into destination weddings, makeup artist education, and building community with other artists.

If you’ve ever wondered how to put up your prices, how to get more makeup bookings, or how to stand out as a bridal makeup artist, this episode will give you clear strategies and inspiration.

Tune in to learn how to:

•Find a mentor or coach who inspires your business journey

•Raise your prices with confidence 

•Elevate your brand with strong content creation skills

•Build authority as a makeup educator online

•Create opportunities for destination weddings and collaborations

Get in touch with Kellsie:

Website

Perth Masterclass - discount code NICOLE15

Masterclasses

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Facebook

Tik Tok

You Tube

Get in touch with Nicole:
My mission for this podcast is to create a safe and supportive community for makeup artists to connect and collaborate.
Sharing knowledge will inspire and strengthen our industry and mentor emerging artists.
I'd love to hear from you and how I can support you - so please reach out and say hi!
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Audio Engineer: John Cox

Makeup Artists Unfiltered respectfully acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the land on which we live, learn and work, the Whadjuk Nyoongar people and pay my respects to the past, present and future Elders of this nation and extend that r...

Transcript

UNKNOWN: 0:02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 0:04

Hello and welcome to Makeup Artist Unfiltered. I'm your host, Nicole Ford, a makeup artist, hairdresser, yogi and a mama of five. In this podcast, I'll be sharing valuable insights, resources and knowledge to help you become a successful makeup artist, something I wish was available when I first started out. Join me as I sit down with talented artists uncovering their unique journeys, creative inspirations, expert tips and so much more. We also hear from business experts and other beauty Thank you so much. around what artists could be pricing, I reached out to Kelsey after her post went viral, realizing like myself, women can have blocks around money. The conversations in our community have inspired artists to reevaluate their value and business model, including myself. Kelsey specializes in delivering refined hair and makeup services for weddings and special occasions worldwide. With a global reputation and passion for destination weddings, Kelsey and her team travel the world to be part of engagements, elopements, weddings and celebrations. From 2014 onward, Kelsey has been extending her beauty expertise to various corners of the world including Australia, Mexico, North America, Europe and New Zealand. Her signature lies in her gentle approach to makeup and her exceptional talent for accentuating one's natural beauty. Beyond her work as a makeup artist, Kelsey is dedicated to supporting and mentoring other artists in her field. She offers a range of resources, including private training, group workshops, and business coaching to individuals who share her passion for the industry. And without further ado, I give you Kelsey Bain. Hi Kelsey, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to chat. I know you're super busy and you're about to set off to a destination wedding. Whereabouts are you off to? Yeah, so I'm actually heading back to Italy on Sunday, so in a couple of days. I have a destination wedding in Tuscany, which is really exciting, but I'm just going for three nights. So it's a quick trip. I'm flying in there, I'm doing the wedding and I'm flying home. So really looking forward to it though. She seems like an amazing bride and I can't wait. Oh my goodness. Goodness. So do you do your trials when you're there? I do. Actually, this bride, it's funny. She didn't want a trial and she's been like, no, don't worry about it. It's fine. I trust you. But I put a poll on my Instagram the other day and I was like, I kind of shared this story and I'm like, do you think I should do a trial or not? And all the makeup artists were like, yes, like we all know you should do a trial. We've all learned the hard way when we don't do a trial. And I'm like, it's so true. So I am doing a trial with her the day before. But yeah, generally for destination weddings, I meet them the day before the wedding do a quick trial usually it's for rehearsal makeup or welcome dinner or something like that and then we do the wedding makeup the next day but yeah it's a big thing because they trust me to get me over there first and then really there's nothing else they can do at that point if they don't like it I'm already there so we just have to figure it out but it hasn't happened so it's all so exciting so for those that haven't heard about you or haven't heard your journey I know that you went from corporate worked at Napoleon and then you and freelanced and you were sort of quoting around that point in time about$40 for a makeup. How did you go from$40 a makeup to like$650 per face? Like what's the timeline there? Timeline's a good 10 years, if I'm honest. And I don't want that to scare some makeup artists because I think you can do it in a shorter timeframe. I was working a full-time corporate job at the time. So I had that salary to fall back on. So I wasn't pushing the makeup business like I... did once I quit that job. So I don't think it can, it takes you 10 years to build a business. But in my case, it did. I did things slowly and at my own pace. And yeah, I just think along the way, lots of self-education. I attended a lot of masterclasses, did a lot of one-on-one workshops, you know, read a lot of business books. I've always been interested more so in running a business than being a makeup artist. Like obviously, you know, I'm always working to perfect my skill and be a better makeup artist, but I am more interested in the business side. of things so lots of business books lots of you know online trainings and that kind of stuff and slowly but surely I've just built it to what it is now which I'm so proud of. So you were self-taught like how how did you figure all that out? Yeah so I was self-taught I was learning on YouTube I was actually working in a bar at the time with a girl who was working for Napoleon and I just expressed to her that I wanted to be a makeup artist and she was like oh I've got a contact let me get you a trial with Napoleon so they got me for a trial I had to take one One of my friends with me did her makeup. It actually wasn't the worst makeup look. Like I look back at that photo and it's really not bad, to be honest. And they hired me off of that. Napoleon, I mean, back then, at least they didn't require you to have any formal training or anything like that. So probably questionable makeup skills at that point. I remember one of my first clients at Napoleon wanted individual lashes and I'd never put them on someone in my life. So a lot of my practicing was done like on the job, which is a little bit scary to think about but yeah I just I really learned on the job I didn't last long at Napoleon but I just started taking on my own clients and practicing on all of my friends and I just kind of became obsessed with with makeup and with building a business really. When did you realize that your career was taking off like I know you said it took 10 years um sort of from where you started to where you are today but when did you go oh my god this is really happening? I think it was around 2022 I started posting a lot on TikTok and was getting a lot of attention And that was my first, I feel like that was when people started to notice me and like compliment my artistry and compliment the way I spoke and things like that. And that makes you feel good. It gives you confidence, right? So I'd never had that on Instagram. It was definitely a TikTok thing in the beginning. So yeah, my TikTok started to kind of pop off and then I just started educating artists. Like I was doing one-on-one workshops and people were booking me and paying me to educate them. So I think at that point I knew that something had shifted and that, you know, it was time to kind of go all in on that. Who helped you along that way? Like who kind of guided you or who was your coach or mentor? Who did you look up to? You know, for say new artists that are starting out and they want to, you know, get into the industry, who would you suggest that they turn to to get some support along that way? Well, to be quite honest, when I started out, there wasn't coaching. There was no mentoring. There was no online masterclasses. I remember feeling super nervous to message makeup artists in my area and ask them what to charge or to ask them for advice it just didn't feel it felt taboo back then you know so I wouldn't say that I didn't have any mentors though I definitely had some mentors that were in other industries like photographers and you know I used to be an event planner so for a second I was working for a florist who you know had a booming business back then still has a booming business now and I learned a lot of her back then I don't even know if she knows this but she just taught me so much just through working with her and then I learned a lot in my corporate careers as well like even the manager that I had in my corporate job like totally different industry he's like a salesman and like he really taught me so much so I never had one person but I've always been very curious about business always asked a lot of questions and paid attention to people around me that were doing well and I think that helped but you know nowadays every makeup artist in the education space is offering coaching calls men You know, there's subscription platforms. There's so many people who can help you build a business now. But when I was coming into the game, like, you know, 2015, it didn't really exist back then. It's so overwhelming. You're right. There's so many coaches. There's so many artists out there that maybe have gone into coaching and, you know, download this e-book. And, like, how would you recommend someone to or what tips would you give them when they're looking for a coach? I just think if you look at someone else's business and it inspires you and you think, I want to be where she is, then that's the right person to invest in. There's a lot of coaches at the moment that aren't even in the game anymore. They're not even working makeup artists anymore. So yes, that's probably out of choice. They don't have to be. They don't have to be doing bridal makeup anymore. But yeah, you have to look at their business model and think, is that what I want for myself? Or is what they've done in their business so impressive that I can see myself there and I want to be there? I just think it's who you're drawing You know, I've got people online that I'm super drawn to and I've just watched religiously for years. So they're people that I would pay over someone, some random Facebook ad that I see, you know, selling a template. Do you know what I mean? So I just think you have to look at people who are inspiring you. That's the main thing. Kelsey, can you share a moment in your makeup career where it was like a disastrous moment and how did you come back from that? How did you save yourself? I did have a bridal trial one. that just popped into my head where it was a destination bride where I was doing her trial the day before the wedding and after the trial I went back to my hotel room and she called me crying because she hated her makeup so much and obviously at the time I did not share any of this on social media but I feel really comfortable talking about it because you know we turned it around but it was just one of those moments where I've never had a client cry to me because she was so unhappy with her makeup so I just had to problem solve in the moment you know and I had to just really I became like a therapist in that moment because we're on the phone and I just had to say to her listen whatever it is you need I can do it like I'm a professional I know whatever it is you want I can make happen like you can trust me like I had to just reinforce that I am good at my job and I I know how to do my job but it really was a communication issue you know like she she found it really hard to communicate what she wanted it was also like an environmental issue the room will work There was no air conditioning. She was hot and flustered. Like all of these things that can go wrong in a bridal trial kind of went wrong that day. And I think she was just overwhelmed. But yeah, I think for, I think a lot of makeup artists have been in that position where the client's not happy after the trial and you just have to figure it out. But that was scary because we were on the job and she was frightened because her wedding was the next day, you know, but we turned it all around and the next day makeup was amazing. She loved it and we made it happen. It's interesting. I only yesterday saw a post on Facebook where a bride had posted a picture and she posted her inspiration pictures alongside her makeup. And she was asking the community, like, this doesn't look like these pictures, help me. And the comments were, you need to get rid of that makeup artist. She doesn't know what she's doing. But all the pictures were AI pictures. There was like 300 comments. So I didn't write a comment, but I felt like saying to her, go back to the same artist, tell her what it is that you do and don't like, because it's the first time she's done your makeup It was just interesting that people were saying it doesn't matter that it's AI. She's a professional. She should know how to do that look. It's everywhere at the moment. I know people are using AI as inspiration. What kind of tips would you give an artist who has someone that shows up with an AI image? Like how do you go about navigating that? I always prepare the clients before they actually get into my chair. So before I meet them for a trial, before they come to me for a trial, I send them a trial prep guide that basically just says, you know, I want you to pretend like it's your wedding day so everything you're going to do on your wedding day you do on the trial if you're going to spray tan spray tan if your brows need waxing please wax them before the trial wear your jewelry wear your hair the way you're going to wear it on the wedding day wear a white dress like don't come wearing a red dress to your bridal makeup trial all of these things make such a big difference and so since I've started doing that the clients are generally pretty happy with their makeup because they can see the whole look right so prep your client really well before they get into your chair and that will make all the difference If they're still unhappy or something's just a little bit off, I'm not opposed to offering them a second trial for free, just so we're both happy. You know, like people get really caught up on like, oh, like I'm happy to do another trial if she pays for it. It's like, well, don't you want to feel comfortable on the wedding day as well? Like I want to know my client's comfortable. I want to feel comfortable. If I feel like she's not comfortable on the trial, I'm going to go into the wedding nervous as well. So I'm, you know, very open to offering the client a second trial so we can play around with a different look or or whatever it was she was unhappy with, we can try and fix so that we both walk into the wedding feeling confident. So Kelsey, with your pricing, recently you put a post up that has gone crazy viral. It's a conversation that has to be had about what we quote and being open and not gatekeeping and what people are charging. There was a lot of conversation around that. And even in my makeup community, we were all talking about, have you seen Kelsey's post? And it was quite interesting because people were coming back with well no one wants to pay that the location that they're in we want to be inclusive we want to be working still and people were afraid of kind of putting up their prices and I inboxed you and I was like yeah I've got money blocks like I need therapy to figure out how to overcome this how has that been for you now I mean that was a little while ago that you made that post they still talk about it other artists are chipping in and sort of posting things where are you at with that now look I'm glad that other artists are posting about it now and taking the heat away from me. But yeah, it's been really interesting to see because I'm seeing big artists make posts about it now. And I know that they've never spoken about pricing in their careers before. So that's amazing to see. I'm seeing people post videos just sharing their pricing, just being like, hey, I'm in this location. Here's how much I'm charging, you know. So I love seeing all of that. It was an interesting time because, you know, there were some negative videos circulating. People had some really intense reactions to it. But yeah, the main thing that I got out of all is that a lot of women, a lot of people have money blocks. And I think now we're talking about it, people are realizing that. Like even just you saying you realize you had a block around money, I think that's the same case for a lot of people in the industry. So now we're all working on it and we're all, you know, trying to figure it out and that's part of business. If you want to have a serious business, you very much have to overcome so many blocks around confidence imposter syndrome, money. It's part of being an entrepreneur. Did you find that you had to go through those processes yourself? 100%, big time. Like I was charging under$200 for, I would say, the first seven years of my career. I think$150 is like the safe space. Like a lot of makeup artists, that's like$150 is the safe spot. They're too scared to go up over$200. They might go up to like$180 or something but you know they're not going close to$200 because it's too scary and that was me as well but yeah it really just took me having some conversations with bigger entrepreneurs and when you really delve into the entrepreneurial space like it's just something you realize everyone has to overcome and it's just a matter of like pulling the trigger and just testing it and seeing what happens and then once you pull the trigger you see that not only do you attract better clients your jobs become better you start making more money so you have more free everything becomes better once you overcome that block and it is hard but if you're spending time with makeup artists who are like that's ridiculous I'm not going to charge over$200 blah blah blah then of course you're not going to overcome that block but if you're around women that are like actually no I think we should be charging more that's the whole point of having a business then you know you're just going to motivate each other to get to that point I think so it's been interesting having the conversations among my artist friends and community and I know that like sometimes if we can't do a job we'll pass that client onto one of the other artists. And if that happens to me, I normally say, well, what have you quoted? And sometimes I don't share that. And I'm like, well, you've left me blind. I don't know where your client's at with that. And if you're going to recommend her to me, then I want to kind of be at least in the same ballpark as you if she's your client. So even in that instance, people sort of don't share, I guess, what they charge. But I wanted to ask you, your pricing, is that for bridal only? Or is that for like events makeup? Or if someone's going as a guest to a wedding if you've got a return client would you still be sitting in that price point or would you maybe no no that the post that I made was very much about bridal makeup and I said that on the first slide but a lot of people missed that and then just started telling me how outrageous it was to charge that price for makeup and I kept going back to people being like I'm talking about weddings here like to be honest my business is so different now that I'm not really taking regular clients but yeah if it was like a studio client, perhaps I'd charge$200 per person. If they're coming to my studio, it's low pressure. You know, I'm not charging$6.50 for Joe Blow who's going to a gala dinner. Do you know what I mean? So those prices were very reflective of my bridal rates. Yeah, I think the one where like celebrity artists can charge$20,000, I was like, you know, I've done some people that you would class like a personality kind of celebrity and we're not getting paid that. I wouldn't even, you know, even know how to approach that. I think, would that be more like touring artists? I'm talking about if you were to hire a celebrity makeup artist for your wedding. So if you're just an average person, but you've got a bit of cash to spend and you want to hire Mary Phillips or Makeup by Mario, Mary Phillips is charging$60,000 for weddings. You know, there's some artists with the wall group who might not be well known to everyone, but they're represented by the wall group. So essentially they are celebrity artists and I know their rates start at$20,000 for weddings. So, you know, I've got a a friend in Nashville who's a celebrity artist and she's on tour and is she making$20,000 a show? No. But again, I'm talking about weddings. My entire post was bridal focus and if you want to hire a celebrity artist for your wedding, that's what you'd expect to pay. Thank you for clearing that up because I think we might have missed that. Some of us might have missed that. Yeah. And I guess in every industry you've got your, I guess, luxury brands, your mid-range and then your entry point. So for new artists that are coming out, it gives them I guess a bit of a range of knowing when they're starting, where they get kind of midway, and then when they're at the top of their game. And I guess there needs to be that, doesn't there? Like there's different makeup quality and prices for that. So I guess that's reflective across most industries. Totally. And if I was a new makeup artist and I looked at a pricing guide that said, oh, in 15 years, you're only going to be earning$200 per person, I wouldn't bother. I'd be like, why bother? I'll just stay in my corporate job. What are you telling me? I'm not going to be making any more money in 20 years time. Like the goal as an entrepreneur is to make more money every year. And I know you've kind of mentioned like, just test the waters, just do it. Like how, how is that? Like if we dive deeper into that, it's a matter of getting a new inquiry come through and you say, these are my prices. And then you might hear crickets. Do you then test it on another client? Like how do you, how is, what's the steps of testing it out? So I would test it in like a busier season. The best example I can think income. And this was actually when I put my rate up to$500 the first time. I was charging$350 at the time and I was fairly booked. Like I had two, three weddings a week, which was all I wanted. But if I would get an inquiry for a busy month, let's just say in Australia, like, you know, October, November is busy. If I would get another inquiry, I would test the new pricing because essentially I didn't really need the job because I was already booked. So if she booked me, it was a bonus. But if I missed out on it, it wasn't the end of the world. So that generally when I would test my pricing and you know in most cases when I tested it they would book so I would just stick to it I've also you know my old assistant from back home in Sydney the time that she increased her prices was one I had a job booked and I wasn't able to do the job for whatever reasons and so I passed the job on to her and she said what did you charge and I said I charged her 500 and she was like oh my gosh I can't do that I'm like just try it like I've already quoted her 500 and she was going to take it so my assistant Claire quoted her 500 and she booked the job. So now she charges these prices, right? So it's just, that's how testing works. I did have another artist sort of say, if you're fully booked, like say you've got weddings every weekend, that's also a good sign to maybe put your prices up. So you're not working as much. 100%. And that was what one of my mentors told me back in the day, because I was booked and busy. And I thought that meant I was just killing the game. And she was like, well, actually, no, you're burnt out and it's a sign to increase your prices. So yes, if you're fully booked out, like I'm in coaching calls with some girls that already have 72 weddings booked for next year at$150 per person. So in that case, I'm like, girl, come on, like you're already so heavily booked. It's a sign that you're in demand and it's time to increase the rate. In the conversations we had with my community of artists. So say if you have, like yourself, 150,000 followers, you kind of know that you can charge those prices. But if you don't have the numbers that correlate to that, if there's a connection if you feel that. Yes and no. Like followers help for sure. Like I'd be lying if I said they didn't because it, it can make you appear a bit more reputable to someone who's seeing your page over someone who's, you know, potentially got 3000 followers. Like perhaps that's, I don't know the mindset of these brides that are booking, but perhaps that's something that they look at. At the end of the day though, I know some really incredible makeup artists who have three to 5,000 followers, but have a stunning portfolio and they showcase their work so beautifully and they're charging high rates because you know the receipts are there on their page in their portfolio essentially I just think that all a bride wants to see is high quality work you know they really just want to be convinced by the Instagram and I don't know if that's in like the follow account as much as it is in the actual quality of the content like in the portfolio I think that's important as well all like how do people elevate their business? How do they elevate their Instagram portfolio? What are some tips that if, you know, people are looking at their Instagram page and, you know, not in a comparison way, but to see your page and say, well, I want mine to look like that. That's important, isn't it? To like up your game and maybe how you present yourself and elevate your business. Like what are some tips that you can give to some artists and how to do that? Yeah, I think you have to be real with yourself when you're looking at your portfolio. Like, is it really where you want it to be? And if it's not, then you really have to teach yourself the art of content creation. And I know it's frustrating for some makeup artists that didn't grow up in the social media world and I didn't either, you know. So, but it was a skill that I just took on board and I committed to teaching myself how to use social media, how to film content, how to move my clients around a room until I find a clean background and good lighting. You know, I will not shoot my client if there's people in the background, if there's messy tables and lights on everywhere like I'm just not doing it I'll move her to a room where I can get that clean shot so caring about the content as much as you care about the makeup and I know there's that whole argument like your main priority should be the makeup and it is my main priority is the makeup and I'm a really good makeup artist but I also really care about the content too because that is what helps me book these bigger and better jobs every year so caring about things like that paying attention to details is huge and the easiest thing you can do is just try and shoot someone with a clean background. So that's the easiest way to elevate your content. If there's people, coffee cups, water bottles, Coke cans, and mess in the background, then instantly the quality of your content drops. I just think learning how to edit videos as well as a big one, obviously reels and video content is really powerful. So learning how to edit short, sharp, snappy content that showcases your work really beautifully. And there's so many free resources. Like I learned all of this on YouTube, you know, Any skill, like right now I'm trying to learn how to edit YouTube videos. So I'm going onto YouTube and I'm typing in like, how can I do this? How can I do that? I'm constantly Googling things and like using AI to figure out these new skills. So I think it's just a timing thing. I think a lot of people find it intimidating so they don't want to put in the time to learn it, but it's such a valuable skill. So do you do that all yourself or do you outsource some of that? I do everything myself. It's something that I enjoy. you're doing like i love making videos i love music so i love piecing together you know the clips and all of that um i also think sometimes you can tell when people have hired a social media manager it can look a bit robotic you know the captions are very chat gpt and it can be really hard to showcase your unique personality and your unique style if you're not doing it yourself and i really do just think it's a skill we all need to learn but i get everyone has different lifestyles. People have families and second jobs and all of that. So in some cases, you know, outsourcing is like the easiest option, but you should at least learn the basics. I think for sure. You were mentioning like on the wedding day, you take photos of your, of your makeup. I've personally found that really uncomfortable to do that on their wedding day. In the back of my mind, I'm like, it's their wedding day. They've already paid me. I'm here I am trying to get content. Like how do you manage that? Put it this way for most brides, their wedding day is the one day where they get to feel like a celebrity. It's the one day in their life where they're going to feel like a princess. They're dressed up. It's all about them, all the attentions on them. And that's a big reason why people have weddings. Let's be real. Like if you don't care about all that attention, you'll probably just go on a lope, you know? So if you be realistic about it, they want to be on camera. They want the photos, they want the videos. So they get excited when we take photos and videos of them. I don't think I've ever had pushback from a client. Like they all get excited about it. A lot of the times the clients want, you know, they end up using my photos as their profile pictures. So they understand it's part of the job. It's also how they found us. Like a lot of our clients find us on Instagram. So they get that it's part of the job and they want to be part of it. In most cases, I get every now and then you might have a client who's a bit more private and all of that. I think just remembering that it almost adds to the excitement for them when we're excited to take photos of them too I think if you feel really awkward you can kind of just hang back with the photographers like when they start shooting the bride especially if you're running out of time or whatever sometimes I'll just hang back you know out of their way but like right by the photographers and I'm kind of just filming whatever they're filming that's a nice way to get some beautiful content without feeling like you're getting in the way yeah they're great tips I've I've started putting it in my email when I'm communicating with the bride because I don't want to ask them face to face because I'm uncomfortable about it so I'm like you know this is what I like to do I like to take some content on the day reply to this email if you don't want me to and it's completely fine if you say no and I've kind of given them all the answers that if you know if they want to say no they can get out of it but then on the day I'm still awkward like I've got to just like my money blocks I've got to get over it well here's the thing if you're awkward and you hesitate in front of the client she will be awkward and she will hesitate so if you're confident about what you're doing then she will put total trust in you so for Make it till you make it. Oh, that's my motto. You now obviously do coaching as well for artists. What's some of the common mistakes you see come up, whether it's in their pricing or their artistry? What sort of a common mistake that you see? In pricing, I just see a lot of people undercharging, period. I see them offering discounts for more people. So they'll say, oh, if you book six people instead of four, I'll discount the number. But for me, that doesn't make sense. because you're working more, you're using more products. So you want to be charging for that. That would be the main thing. I don't see people making mistakes in artistry. I think I just see it in the content, to be honest. Like I just see people that just haven't figured out how to showcase their work online in like a high quality way. And I just think if they just taught themselves the skill, then they might be able to raise the prices or they might start attracting the clients they actually want you know so that's why I just think it's so valuable what's some of the tools that you're using like with your social media um with your editing and content and like do you have like an automation for your emails like what's some of those tools that artists can look into for content honestly I keep it really simple I just use CapCut and a lot of the times especially on my destination jobs I'm not even using lighting I'm just setting the client up in front of a big window and filming with my tripod so it's really um it's really uncomfortable to be honest. I think the main thing is lighting. You just have to get them in front of that window. So I will move around the hotel or the house until I find that spot. For everything else, I'm pretty old school, to be honest. Like I use my Gmail calendar and we do use Klaviyo for email marketing. That's not something I manage, so I'm lucky enough that my assistant handles that for me. But yeah, I keep things pretty simple in my business. People are usually pretty surprised that I don't have a CRM or anything like that. I'm also school. I just feel like I keep it simple, but it works, you know? Well, I am starting to use Dubsado because of the kids and not being able to get to all my emails, but that's been a whole learning curve. I feel that that's kind of helped me, but I feel like when I'm about to send the email, I'm editing it anyway. So it's almost like extra work for me. But yeah, I'm kind of feeling that out at the moment to see if that's something that works for me. What's a big struggle that you faced in your business and how did you overcome that? Whether it was in the beginning or the middle of your career? I think a big struggle I faced in the beginning was the comparison thing. When I was a newer makeup artist, I would compare myself to artists who'd been in the game 10 years, 20 years longer than me and just be like, why aren't I as good as them? Why don't I book jobs as cool as them? I feel like a lot of artists fall into that trap of comparing themselves to people that have just put in more work than them, really, like years of work. So I fell into that trap really early on and it almost derailed my career because I just, I didn't think I was good enough. And then I really just took matters into my own hands, you know, because it could come down to a confidence thing as well. Like I, it made me feel like I had no confidence because I was comparing myself to other people. So I just had to overcome that really just by having a willingness to try and just accepting that, okay, you know what? Like I'm not as good as this artist right now because she's had 10 years on me. Like just looking at the realities of what's going on you know and really just trying to stay in my own lane I think that's the main thing that I did I just stopped looking at what everyone else was doing and focusing on what everyone else was doing and really just thought okay what can I do like what can I do in my business to become a better makeup artist to become a better businesswoman to earn more money like what can I do right now so it started off with me just you know perfecting my portfolio working with photographers planning my own photo shoots I wasn't getting booked for photo shoots I So I planned my own and I really just took matters into my own hands. And I think just having that willingness to try gave me the confidence and I was able to move past that comparison block that I had. Yeah, I think Instagram and social media in general is good sometimes, but then also squashes you, you know, like you do compare yourself and it's hard to not get in that trap. And you don't know how edited that image is that people have posted as well. I personally find that that's a struggle for me and coming off Instagram sometimes is better like to not be on it and scrolling. So I guess at that point, you know, is that been a time that you've wanted to quit and then you've thought, right, I'm going to throw myself into it and learn more and grow more. Is that the time where you've pulled yourself out of that? 100% because I've always cared more about having it than losing it. You know, I've had moments in my life where I could have quite easily given up based on things like that or just other heavy things happening in my life but I just cared so deeply about building this business and having the freedom of being an entrepreneur and having my own business and traveling and all the rest of it so that was always worth it to me and you know again just understand that when you're an entrepreneur like you're gonna have really shitty days like you are you're gonna do jobs that like aren't your best work and if you can just get real with yourself and be like you know what it wasn't my best but I had a bad day and I'm human and tomorrow's gonna be a better day I think makeup artists are really generally speaking we take things really personally and it's hard because it is us it's our hands it's our skill it's our business but if you look at it as a business you know every business has bad days you know we're just human and when I worked in my corporate jobs I'd have terrible days I'd make mistakes and I wouldn't let it get to me but now that it's my own business I take it a bit more personally but yeah you just have to kind of take a step back and just realize that it's just part of the game really So you offer coaching. What can artists expect if they were to sign up with you? What topics do you cover? What sort of things can they look forward to if they were to sign up with you as a coach? Yeah, it's really different. I do one hour sessions. So I just had a coaching call before this podcast with a young makeup artist who's just started last year. She's got 300 followers. She's still in her full-time job. So her questions were all about how can I get to a point where I quit the job and make makeup's my full-time career I mentor experienced artists that have the blocks around money are overworked with bridal makeup potentially want to get into education and have other income sources so I coach them on that it's really a matter of jumping on the call with the artist and I always say to them what's your number one goal for the next 12 months and whatever the first thing that they say is that's what I focus on for the majority of the call a lot of it is Instagram deep dives too some people just want me to look at their Instagram and be like what would you change or what would Would you do different? And it's so interesting to me just how some people in their bios, like they don't even have their name in their bio, you know. A lot of people still have no DMs written in their bio, which is wild to me because we're dealing with Gen Z women now and the Gen Z women are on their phones. So they're not emailing and looking at websites, they're DMing. So you need to have your DMs open, you know. So little things like that, just the Instagram deep dive and the artists always love that. But yeah, I really tailor each coaching call to where the artist is at and what their goals are are you pretty honest with if someone says look at my makeup am I crap like would you you're pretty honest in the feedback because I know sometimes you know if I've done like a makeup master class and the makeup artist is coming around and they're looking at your work and that looks great and I'm like no no tell me which is shit like which bit do I really need to work on yeah I mean I'm a realistic no bullshit type of person anyway and I've also been there you know so a lot of it I'm like I I know what why you posted that photo because I've been there and I posted a photo like that as well. But yeah, I am honest and I think by the time someone invests and books a coaching call and pays the money, they're to the point that they want someone to just tell them what they're doing wrong and what they're doing right and to just give them that no bullshit advice. So yeah, I'm pretty honest. Artists are listening and they want to look into starting destination weddings or even becoming a coach or teaching masterclasses. I know I've thrown three at you there, but what are the sort of tips you would give in someone branching out and doing those things in their business? If they wanted to start doing education masterclasses and coaching and that kind of stuff I think they should just start showing up as an educator online you know posting educational videos that's kind of how I started a few of my very first videos on TikTok were I'm a makeup artist and here are five things I wish I knew at the beginning of my career or here are five mistakes I've made as a makeup artist or here's what It's really like being a makeup artist. Do you know what I mean? So just those educational videos just help you build authority as an educator. So little things like that or just like educational posts around actual makeup techniques. You know, one of the number one questions I still get asked is what foundation to use. So posting a video about foundation, how to apply your blush, like all of these little videos that can be turned into educational content set you up to become a good educator later on because people already trust you and see you as an educator. I find when I try to do anything like that, in my first instant, I'm thinking, what are other makeup artists going to think of me? And it wasn't until I had another coach in another area kind of say, you're not posting that content for other makeup artists. You're posting it for average people that are wanting to learn how to do their makeup. So it was a mind shift, I think, that I had to, because you do, you kind of go, oh, my God, what are my friends going to say about this?

SPEAKER_01: 38:47

I guess you have to trust yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 38:48

your own stuff right like know your product yeah you have to remember that like a lot of the women following us are not makeup artists they're past clients or depending on what you're doing like obviously I have a lot of makeup artists following me but I also have a lot of just like everyday women like past clients my families and friends my mum's friends are all following me you know so what's common knowledge to us as makeup artists is not common knowledge to an everyday woman who knows nothing about makeup you know my auntie recently as much as she watches every one of my videos and comments on on them she sent me an ad for there's this foundation going around that's meant to just blur all of your lines you know it's very much like AI generated and my aunt is like should I buy this and I'm like hell no you know so even people that everyday women that watch and absorb your content like sometimes they just want to learn the basic stuff so I think we forget about that yeah you're right and I think I know what foundation you're talking about I've seen the ads so if someone wants to get into the destination weddings like how how would they start? Like, how do you start doing that? I think you have to have a strong portfolio obviously to begin with, because that's how brides are going to find you, but really start with your own network. So who do you know in your community or your network or your audience who is potentially getting married overseas? Is it like a cousin's friend or like someone, a colleague or, you know, a lot of people are doing destination weddings now and getting married overseas. So reach out to them, pitch yourself. I think a lot of the times we forget that we actually work in a sales industry like it is sales we have to sell ourselves and we have to sell our skills you have to put yourself in front of your ideal clients is what i'm trying to say so my first destination wedding was a dm on instagram to a girl that i saw got engaged and if actually a few of my bigger weddings since then have been through a dm with me saying hi i'm kelsey i'm a makeup artist i'd love to do your wedding makeup like that's how it started i love how that's just so like down to earth and normal you you know, like that you still go into other people's DMs and ask or sell yourself, you know, like I think that's great.

UNKNOWN: 40:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_00: 40:58

Yeah. And you don't have to send like a really long chat GPT generated message. It can just be as simple as like, Hey girl, saw you're getting married. Would love to be a makeup artist. Like, let me know if you want to have a chat, you know, keep it simple. I had my cousin getting married in Egypt and we were going over just for the wedding. And I just said, look, I'll bring my makeup and do your hair over there. And this is before, like it was all Instagrammy. And I'm like, you know, God, if I just had my phone then, and if it was a thing then, cause then I've done a destination Asian wedding. And then I had a wedding in Lombok off Bali and didn't take content. Like, you know, it just wasn't a thing. I was like, oh yeah, I've done two. But anyway, so Kelsey, you're coming to Perth. I mean, I know you're traveling around Australia to do your masterclasses, but you are coming to Perth in November. Is there still places for people to book a spot? Yeah. Perth has sold really well, but there's still places. It's definitely growing. And I'm so excited because I've never been to Perth, which is crazy. I meet more people in Canada that have been to Perth than I have as an Australian. So I'm really excited. And I know there's a big community of artists over there. And the vibe I got from my DMs off the back of that post was that they're all struggling with the pricing thing. So I'm really keen to meet the artists over there and to host a masterclass there. I'm really excited for it. And so what sort of things are covered in the masterclass? So the first half of the masterclass is a technical in-person demonstration So I'll have a model there. I'll demonstrate a makeup look. I'll show the artists how I film my content because essentially I think a lot of people come to me for the content part and the destination wedding part. So I make sure I show them how I film content on the job and then I show them how I film content at the end of, you know, the makeup application. Then we have a lunch and a mingle and then we go into like a business Q&A, which in my opinion is the most valuable part of the masterclass. And this is when I see the light bulbs go on and everyone's eyes light up and it's really like an open discussion it just you know I kick it off with who wants to ask a question you know and it goes from there and it can actually get really personal like sometimes we've had girls cry and like share personal struggles personal stories I've shared personal struggles and stories and it's just really empowering to be honest because I don't know it's hard to explain when you're in a room full of women who are all driven and passionate and love makeup something really special happens but yeah I think the majority of artists take a lot away from that business Q&A and they definitely walk away motivated for sure. Yeah, I think it's woman power as well. You know, like you're saying everyone can get quite personal. I think it's hard, you know, just generally women in business trying to price ourselves, just the industry from doing all fashion side of things. There was never budget for makeup, you know, like the hair and makeup artists, we just got devalued so much. Then they try to cut costs and they would use the makeup artists and then they had to learn how to do hair, but you weren't getting any extra money So when you're on your own in that industry, you kind of, you don't really know, but when you have your community and you can ask questions, it does empower you to kind of say, well, no, actually, if I'm going to do both and I need more money or whatever the topic might be. So I think it's women raising women. Totally. Masterclasses for that. Oh, 100%. And just connecting with other, connecting with other makeup artists. Like I know so many Perth artists through Instagram, but I've never met them or have not worked with them. So you get to meet people as well which is great in your community oh yeah and you just don't know what opportunities can come from that like in-person networking is so powerful you might meet someone at the master class who needs an assistant next week and there you go you've got yourself a job the assistant I'm taking to Italy with me next week come to my New York master class so you know I only work with people that I've met in person for that reason so yeah really really powerful in-person master classes for sure I've had a few chats with some people that are following my podcast and kind of asking them what their struggles are. And some of them are new here to Perth and they're finding it hard to start their community because they're new. What would you just sort of say to them to just reach out, DM people or start the community themselves? Like what are some tips for them to get their little tribe together? Yeah, I feel that. I felt that in Sydney. I'm from Sydney, but like I said, I'm self-taught, so I never had makeup friends. So I just started my own community, to be quite honest. Like I would plan content days, message a couple of makeup artists and be like hey do you want to go halves in this studio let's do a content day together and we'd get in the studio together i'd get some hairstylists in get a photographer and just have content days like that's one thing you can do but yeah i mean again when i moved to canada same thing i'm coming to a new country i just dm'd every makeup artist i saw here in town and said hey do you want to get a coffee and like that requires confidence but that's how you make friends and how you build connections in the industry so but yeah if you want to keep it work related content days are great planning, photo shoots, going to masterclasses. You're going to, that's just the easiest way to meet people. Yeah. All of those things really helpful. I just wanted to jump back into the price point and people are wanting to up their prices. It's more about the value, right? Like you've got to sell them the value of why they're paying that. What other sorts of things that you include in that when you're like, what do you include for your bride? Do they get like touch-up kits? Do you have little mini facials that you do on them before you start the makeup? Like what's the added value that people can put into their service so that they feel that they can put their prices up. I think you are the value. I don't think you need to add in anything else in order to increase your prices. I think that your time and maybe your kit, like clients love seeing luxury products in a makeup kit, but I really just think that the service is value in itself. And that's what people are struggling to understand. Like they're, you know, potentially thinking, what more can I do? But you don't need to work harder. You're already working You know, I think it just really comes back to your portfolio, the work you're showcasing, how you're showcasing it. And that's enough to convince a client that she wants to book you and she's happy to pay$600 for it. You know, obviously I'm providing a beautiful service on the day. Like I show up as a professional. I take care of my brides. I make sure I'm the most professional person in the room. I give the client space. I'm not talking about my personal life and making the moment about me. It's all about them. Like those little things matter. And I spend time with my clients. Like I do know, especially in the States here, a lot of makeup artists are forced to do makeup in half an hour, which just isn't enough, you know, and you can't provide a luxury experience when you're doing that. So I take time on my clients, but yeah, I'm not doing touch-up kits and all those little things. I value my time. I value my skill. I know I'm good at what I do and my prices reflect that. What's next for you in your career? Like what are you planning or working on at the moment? Well... It's interesting you ask. I am thinking of going down the podcast route just because off the back of all the podcasts I've been doing, I mean, people have been telling me for years that I should have a podcast. I love to yap about business, which I'm sure you realize after this call. And I'm just passionate about it, you know. So I think it probably is the next step for me. There's a few hesitations I have around it though. So that's an option. I definitely want to keep up the in-person masterclasses. I love my passive income and my online masterclasses. So I've got an idea for another course that I want to release at the end of the year. But really I'm happy with where I am and what I'm doing. Like it's really fun at the moment. I feel like I'm in a really good place and it's all just working really nicely for me. So not pushing myself too hard, but also my brain is always working, you know. Oh, my brain's that too. I have all these ideas, but it's like executing them is the issue. I think having a family, get all excited. Like if I attend a masterclass and then I'm like all pumped and I'm going to get a content shoot happening. And then you come home and it's like kids hanging off you. And then it kind of goes out the window and fizzles out. So it's hard to switch your brain off sometimes. Totally. And I'm also 34 years old. So I do need to think about children eventually as well. So I'm trying to smash it all out the next few years. And then hopefully. Well, I had my last baby at 45. So you've got time. Oh, wow. I love hearing that. I've been watching TikToks of like women who are having babies like in their early 40s and like just their experience and I like hearing it because you do feel that pressure as a woman like especially approaching 35 it's just like it's everywhere you know but I love my career and I love what I'm doing at the moment so we'll see what happens where can people reach out to you like if they want to book a coaching call what's the best place where can they find you everything's linked in my bio Kelsey Bain makeup so all of my courses and you know coaching call links product links everything's Everything is in there. You can send me a DM. If I don't reply to your DM, I haven't seen it, but I do try and I'm pretty good with my DMs. I do try and keep up with them. Yeah, I was pretty impressed when you got back to me, you know, when you replied. I was like, Kelsey's replied. This is amazing. Yeah, I'm a little bit OCD in the sense that I don't, yeah, I don't like going to bed with unread messages, which is like a blessing and a curse, really. I think I heard you talk about there's people out there that have 300 emails on their phone and I'm like... That's me. Oh, I just, I can't. That gives me so much anxiety. Gives me anxiety too. I wish it did it though. I wish I could let things go like that, but I can't. I have to reply. Oh, that's so funny. I wish I knew how to reply to like all my messages and delete them. Kelsey, thank you so much again for your time. I'm super excited that you're coming to Perth. Yeah, I can't wait to come along and learn more. Pick your brain. Yeah, thank you. I know everyone was super excited when I let them know that I was going to be having you on the podcast and not that I'm expert podcast but you know if you need any tips I'm happy to help you when you start yours yeah thank you yeah I'm just exploring it I'm just like like I said before curious paying attention to you know how it how it goes and how it works so we'll see thanks again Kelsey thank you so much wow what an incredible conversation with Kelsey I loved hearing her journey which started out similar to ours it shows us what is possible her honesty about the business side of makeup, pricing and mentoring other artists really stood out for me. Okay, so my top five takeaways. Number one, find mentors who inspire you. Look at the people in business you admire and how they run their business, how they show up. Surround yourself with entrepreneurial women who will cheer you on and support you, help you break through money blocks and imposter syndrome. Number two, test your pricing. If you're fully booked, that's your sign to raise your prices. Try all new rates during the busy season when demand is high. You don't technically need those jobs, so it's the perfect time to test raising your prices. Number three, your portfolio and content matter more than followers. And be honest with yourself when you're looking at your social media pages. Is it high quality, clean, detailed content? This is what elevates your brand learn how to create content and how to take photos pose your model edit and showcase your work properly from lighting and backgrounds to creating short snappy reels content creation isn't optional anymore it's part of your business skill number four confidence builds trust with clients from trials to wedding day prep and everything in between clients trust you when you show up confidently even if you have to fake it till you make it communicate clearly include content permission in your emails if like me you feel uncomfortable to ask in person and don't be afraid to grab those content shots while working number five create community and authority whether it's destination weddings coaching teaching or local collaborations put yourself in front of the right people start by sharing tips online to establish authority plan content days with other creatives and remember it's your time your kit your I hope this episode has inspired you as much as it did me. And if you'd like to connect with Kelsey, you'll find all her links in the show notes. Check out Kelsey's masterclass dates. And if you're in Perth, remember to book your spot in Kelsey's masterclass on the 25th of November. If today's conversation inspired you, I'd love for you to share it with someone who you know would enjoy it too. Take a screenshot and tag Kelsey and Makeup Artist Unfiltered and share it in your stories. It's such a powerful way to spread the word, reach more artists and help us all educate and elevate our industry together. If you found this episode I'll see you next time. Come join our community on Instagram and Facebook today to continue the conversations. And thank you for being here and listening to Makeup Artist Unfiltered. See you on the next episode.