Dimensions
Join J. Anthony and Tiffany Gilbert as they discuss current events and give biblical commentary to help educate, encourage, and elevate your faith.
Dimensions
Dimensions: Ridding Your Relationship of Strife and Enjoying the Holidays.
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Join us with our guest Pastors Bill and Lynne Themelaras as we center on the critical topic of strife in relationships, especially during the holiday season. It unpacks how managing conflict is essential for cultivating joy and harmony, urging listeners to shift their focus from blaming others to fostering personal growth and understanding.
• The holiday season often intensifies pre-existing stress and conflicts
• Strife acts as a blessing blocker, hindering personal and relational growth
• Effective communication is the cornerstone of healthy relationships
• Recognizing one's role in conflicts can lead to significant personal change
• Early morning quiet time can help maintain focus and peace
• Seeking counsel from impartial individuals can aid in navigating strife
• Transitioning from praying about your partner to praying for them is vital for relationship health
What's up everybody? It's Pastors Jay and Tiffany here. Welcome to the latest episode of Dimensions.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:We're so glad to be with y'all. We got an exciting show for each and every one of y'all today.
Speaker 2:It is exciting. But I have one thing you know, this is my thing that I do with you. Every time we're on TV or we do this, I just want to know where's your, where's your Christmas stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, jesus, on the main line it's on what you want.
Speaker 2:Where's your Christmas stuff? Where's your Christmas gear? You?
Speaker 1:know I just rock what I rock. You know I wear white in the Christmas time, in the wintertime. I don't go by the color scheme, y'all, I do it all year round. I do me.
Speaker 3:I do me boo.
Speaker 1:I do me boo. That's how we roll y'all.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, I'm excited to be here. I'm jumping back in.
Speaker 1:Yes, you are. We're so excited. It's been a while, but we're going to be back with y'all every we have a whole lot of guests coming up. We want to talk about things that are important to you guys, and we know that today we've got some great guests. We're talking about relationships and how to navigate. You know a lot of stress can be happening throughout the holidays.
Speaker 2:It's stress, anger, bitterness, all that stuff. You know, I heard it this way Somebody said that anger is one or danger is one. Letter away From anger, from anger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:Because when you get anger, I mean that stuff can get dangerous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it can.
Speaker 2:Very quick. I mean you go down a slippery slope very quick with that.
Speaker 1:That's what I talk about. Listen my wife. I tell her she's cute, she's petite, Don't get it twisted.
Speaker 2:Don't do it, don't get it twisted.
Speaker 1:She got a blade under that jacket. Y'all she's packing heat.
Speaker 2:She's packing heat, y'all You're not supposed to let that out of the bag. No one's supposed to know that.
Speaker 1:But see, we're going to talk about all this now because we're talking about relationships and we'll probably talk about it later. You know how we do, but no, on the real though, we want to talk to you guys about relationship matters. We've got a couple here that has been just outstanding, just really loves the Lord. They've got two great churches I don't even know everything that they do, I mean, man, I don't know how they keep up the schedule that they got and they're just great, a great man, a great woman of God. They pastor Oasis City Church along with Covenant Church of Pittsburgh. They've been with us on Cornerstone talking about relationships and we said listen, we need to do something on a podcast as well, but listen, before I mention them, don't forget to take a minute to like, subscribe, follow share stay with us.
Speaker 1:We're on iHeartRadio, Everywhere you can get a podcast, I think that we're available iTunes and you'll be able to, if you like, subscribe, follow and share. You'll be able to keep up and become the latest family member of the Dimensions family. So we want you to join with us. We've got a whole lot of guests. We've got guests from all over the world literally that are going to be coming on and just doing different types of discussions and things, so we're real excited. So, with no further ado, you got something to mention.
Speaker 2:Well, I wanted to mention, first of all, I've known this couple for a long time. Yes, For about 20, maybe 20 something. Something here I don't know, we can they can correct me if I'm wrong but they are an awesome couple and I love you know, what I love about them is not only are they authentic, but they are unified.
Speaker 1:I love that, the unity that's between them, I mean as a matter of fact, one of the really unique story the first Sunday that when you and I were dating that I came to covenant, they were being prayed out to launch the church Oasis City Church in Columbus, ohio. So they were leaving the exact same. What people don't realize, I went to Bible college in Columbus Ohio. So it was kind of like just neat how it all kind of got set up, so remember they were up there and you said this is Bill and Lynn, they're getting ready.
Speaker 1:They're like a son and daughter of the house and dah, dah, dah. So I just would meet everybody. I was just completely like terrified to be there, cause I was. I'm trying to put on a good front. You know what I mean, and make sure I'm holding it down and make sure I'm looking good for you, and uh, and then they were being prayed out.
Speaker 2:They were being prayed out.
Speaker 1:So what was it? Maybe 10 years later finally got a chance to meet them, done many things with them on cornerstone television, and then they got the opportunity to come back to Covenant in order to pastor it.
Speaker 2:So talk about full circle. Yeah right, yeah, so, and, but yeah, go do your thing.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's all good, it's all good. So I'm going to bring to the platform here Pastors Bill and Lynn Thumalaris. They're with us today. Pastors Bill and Lynn, I'm going to bring you up here.
Speaker 3:So glad to have you guys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're really excited and honored again to be with you, so it's great. Well, I hope we gave you guys a formal introduction. I know y'all wear many different hats. I know you do the reconciliation ministry as well. You got a lot going on. Is there anything I left?
Speaker 3:out. Oh man, we do have three kids, yeah, and two dogs. So that's, our kids are grown though, young adults, all in their young twenties. But yeah, tiffany, it's, this is our 20th year. It was 20 years ago that we met Cause. This is our 20th year from when we met Sounds right. Yeah, crazy, how much time flies.
Speaker 4:And you don't look any different.
Speaker 2:You know what, see, that's why I love you, and you know what I can can I can genuinely say the same about your. Passion is not age you know, that is true I mean seriously, she does, she just wouldn't say anything there's some wrinkles, there are they're there, they're just. They're just season marks. That's all. That's what we call them. That's all seasoning. That's some wrinkles there are. They're there. They're just season marks.
Speaker 1:That's all. That's what we call them. That's all seasoning. That's all seasoning.
Speaker 2:You just wrinkled some seasoning in there. That's it, yes.
Speaker 1:Go ahead Pastor Bill.
Speaker 4:No, I'm just saying this. No, he's getting ready to be inappropriate.
Speaker 1:This is dimensions. Y'all, let's go, let's go.
Speaker 2:You know what will start pastor bill then he's gonna start? No, do we want to go down that road of inappropriateness?
Speaker 1:all right, probably too early for that listen, there's the unfiltered me and then there's a filtered me. So be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
Speaker 2:this isn is an after hours this is the nightcap.
Speaker 1:So yeah well listen, we're so glad to have you guys and we figured no better couple to bring on you guys. I mean you guys have a lot of stuff that you guys have walked through, you've been through and you're doing ministry together. I don't think people understand the warfare and things that come along with what you're doing. So there's some things we really want to get into with you guys and want to ask you guys. One of the things is dealing with strife. You know we're in the holidays dealing with marriage, so many different things that happen. What do you guys do to keep strife out of your home? Because I believe that strife is a killer. It's a blessing blocker in families.
Speaker 1:I believe there's a lot of families that aren't seeing what they want to see happen because they don't keep the home life apart from strife. And I think there's a difference between strife and a disagreement. You can have disagreements going on and working through something, but not fall into strife. I feel strife is where not only do you have a disagreement, but now you've opened the door to where now I'm not reconciliatory, I'm not looking to try to reach out, I'm not looking to try to bridge the gap, I'm just staying in my fence, and then you just create this friction and tension in your home. That just, I believe, blocks the blessing.
Speaker 1:And what we've noticed is, whenever the devil tries to bring strife into our world, there's a blessing on the other side of it strife into our world, there's a blessing on the other side of it, and so we have learned to not only identify it, put things in place and keep that out of our life, and when we do see it if we do happen to see it to kill it immediately, because there are blessings that come along with it. So you guys feel free to speak to that. But what do you guys do to deal with strife when it hits your world?
Speaker 4:Well, one of the first things, I'm going to jump in here because you know I don't want the preacher to start preaching. And then you know that's right, I get up earlier than everyone else and I make sure that I spend my quality time with myself, right? And get centered and ready for the day, because life, I tell people all the time life keeps lifing all the time and I'm already starting my morning rushed and hurried and anxious to get things done.
Speaker 4:I'm already putting myself in a position to be easily irritated, easily frustrated. But if I get up early and I can have that slow morning, I call it my coffee date with Jesus. Just take time before all the hustle and bustle begins. I actually position myself to already be protected against the strife that the enemy does once during the day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think we set ourselves up for strife when we allow the randomness of the day to affect us in a negative manner. So when things are outside of our control and something happens, well then there's an opportunity to respond. Okay, am I going to respond with peace and patience and prayer? Okay, holy Spirit, I did not expect this, but guess what? He knew it was going to happen. Surprise the Lord that this happened today, or this relationship situation happened, or this work thing happened, or this kid thing happened, or this financial thing happened. But when we try to control a situation you know emotionally and we kind of get all riled up in our even, in our spirit and we're not at peace with having the mind of Christ like, okay, I can get through this hurdle, this storm, this struggle, it's an open door for strife, and it's not just in your marriage, it's strife with your coworkers. I mean something happens. I mean those teenage years are no joke man, they are no joke.
Speaker 2:We didn't get there yet, so we're going to call you two. We're on the brink.
Speaker 4:I have a five-part episode on this.
Speaker 3:Well, we should do seven, one for every year, you know. But you have a relationship, you know you and your kids could be doing so well. I mean, you're talking, relationships are good, and then something happens.
Speaker 4:The boyfriend shows up, yeah.
Speaker 3:The girlfriend, the great, the grade, they didn't go to school that day. They, you know, they lied, whatever it is, and you're like, why did you do that? Automatically, something's outside of your control, and so the way you respond can determine if you're going to let strife come into that relationship, because it's really good. And all of a sudden, one incident could change the course, because you have maybe at this point as a parent, you have fallen into allowing strife to be of the situation.
Speaker 2:That's so true. You know you mentioned prayer, and prayer is important. I remember I have to share this. I have a question for you too, but I have to. I want to share this. I don't know for you too, but I want to share this. I don't know if you remember this. We were newly married, maybe two, three years, and we were in our new house that we got and we just were not. I mean, we were hitting and you went upstairs because we were talking. You went upstairs and I said what are you going upstairs for? He was like well, I'm going to go pray. I said who are you praying for you? And then he kept going how do you respond? Because I'm glad he's praying for me, but get back here. Do you remember?
Speaker 1:I do not. Yeah, you went upstairs, at least everybody knows. Now you've got a praying man. Now you got a praying man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess so. But you know, one of the things I think that we've hit is a heavy at times is a cyclical effect of strife. It's like we get out of it. And, matter of fact, bishop Gaten, I'm going to give you a shout out because you were the one who told us. He told us that you know, the devil, the enemy, really wants to abort what you guys are trying to accomplish, what God has called you to accomplish. And so, in a practical sense, how would you two, because I think that's it's hard, it's like it's like a season of that cyclical strife.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you've ever been in there where it's like, okay, you get out, and then you get back in and you get out, and it's like the season of just pressure, the season of challenge to see, and it's like a season of it. You know, how do you practically like, what do you do, even practically to to encourage people to like, okay, this is how you get out of this. You know, because it's really meant, the devil means it for evil, but God's trying to produce. It seems like, you know, when we, whenever we hit, that it's like the enemy, the Lord's trying to produce something out of it? How do you encourage people? What do you do Like? What is something that you do to help people? Okay, this is how you get out of this.
Speaker 4:I think one of the first things you have to realize is that you can't change the other person, you can only. And so oftentimes, when you're in that battle of strife, you're thinking about how can you change your husband, how can you change him, how can you change your wife? But what you have to do is how do I change me? And one of the biggest things is communication styles. Stripe is like this little burning fire right, that's just this little campfire that's burning there and I have to choose. Am I going to put water on that Gasoline? Right, that's on me. So how I respond to whatever has triggered me is either water or gasoline. And when you start thinking about that, I'll even say to myself sometimes, when something is said or done and I want to just jump, I'll say water or gasoline.
Speaker 2:That's good, that's good.
Speaker 4:And I'll pick what I'm going to. Then I'll really think through how am I going to respond to this Right, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's great baby, Because I'm glad that you've picked this up all the time.
Speaker 4:And, ladies and gentlemen, this is why I stay in my prayer closet. That's right.
Speaker 3:Years ago I learned a lesson, but it was by the Holy Spirit that I learned it. I was in ministry we're at a smaller church. So years ago I learned a lesson, but it was by the Holy Spirit that I learned it. In ministry we're at a smaller church.
Speaker 3:I was a youth pastor and a worship pastor at this church and I went through a season, like you were saying, tiffany, of difficulty with people. So every time I turned around it seemed like I was having trouble with this person on the worship team. I was having trouble with this person on the worship team. I was having trouble with this person in the youth group. I was having trouble with this parent of the teen in the youth group. I was having trouble with this college student in our young adult ministry.
Speaker 3:Me and Len were having conflict at home. We had little babies and such, and I just kept thinking to the Lord. I mean, it was a season. I kept praying God, man, all these people have all this stuff. And the Holy Spirit spoke to me and he said what's the common denominator? Right, more or less, was who is the common denominator here? I was in trouble with all of these people. All of these people were having trouble with me. On some level, I was actually the common denominator. They messed up and they said that wrong, and she didn't do that right, and he didn't show up for work and and me and Lynn, whatever. But the issue was I'm was central to all of these issues, and so here I am, spending my time praying for these other people to get it right.
Speaker 4:Wow, wow.
Speaker 3:Get their crap in order so that we can work.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you're good.
Speaker 3:The Lord is pointing the finger right at me, saying bill, you're the common denominator here, so what are you going to do about you? And that goes along with what I was just saying. So I had to take ownership, I had to repent, even though, uh, you know there's a the, the passage in um proverbs uh, then the passage in translation says every man is in love with his own opinion. It's the passage where man makes his plans, but God establishes his ways. Well, in the passage it says every man is in love with his own opinion. And I'm thinking, wow, it wouldn't be an opinion if we didn't love it. I wouldn't have that opinion.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow.
Speaker 3:Right. If I really wasn't in love with the way I thought about it, I wouldn't have that opinion, and what I was allowing was my opinions to dominate a situation because I felt you should have acted this way. I feel like you should have acted this way, and whether I was right or wrong wasn't even the issue. It was the condition of my heart. I was allowing strife in my relationship.
Speaker 1:Pastor Bill. With that, though, what did God do in you during that process? So, like I hear you saying, like all right, I was a common denominator, I was hitting those different things. What was the adjustment in your thinking that had to take place in order for you to shift that scenario to where you wanted it to be?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question, and I don't even know if it was one thing per se. First of all, it was me recognizing.
Speaker 4:Fairness is the first key.
Speaker 3:And I remember coming home and telling Lynn that I think she was probably relieved because she was like oh, you're finally getting it. You got it. The first thing was awareness and the second thing is I repented, because I believe quick repentance.
Speaker 3:Man there's no reason to let this thing linger. I'm a fool for trying to think I could solve it myself or sew it back together again. Be quick to repent. And when I repented, I remember what did happen in my heart was that I began to look at other people in a different way. So I didn't look at them with the problem that they brought to me constantly. That annoyed me. I began to look at them like, well, maybe their situation they just don't know. Maybe they're just ignorant. Maybe they're not aware that God really cares about that circumstance. Maybe they're ignorant of the solution. Maybe I can be a voice in their life, a godly voice in their life, to help them with this, because the way they're reacting was not the source of their problem. It was just. You know, the way they were acting was just a reaction. And so I began to learn how to teach myself and others how to respond to things rather than react to things.
Speaker 2:Wow, well, and I think a lot of it, you know, even as you both are talking, is really laying it down, giving it to the Lord and saying, lord, have your way, have your way in that person, have your way in the situation and have your way in me. You know, I share this story. It's funny. You know, pastor Bill, you were talking about the common denominator and I had that same. It was like that same cycle with people and I was sitting in standing in Giant Eagle, I was getting my groceries, the store was packed and this was after just kind of test after test after test, of the Lord was saying, okay, how are you going to handle this situation? How are you going to handle this situation? How are you going to respond to this situation? I had my oldest son with me.
Speaker 2:We were in the store and there was this long line. So I got in line and a woman and I'm trying to get out of there, I'm not trying to stay in the store all day and a woman came right in front of me and just brought her big old cart with all of her stuff in there and the guy in front of me said, hey, she went there, he went to her and he said listen, she was in line before you. Her response was I don't care, we all have to check out. So I said okay, well, lynn, what did Pastor Lynn? What did you say? You said either water or what? Gasoline, gasoline. So that's what I'm going to think about when I'm moving forward. I'm going to either say water or gasoline, and so I could have put water or gasoline on that. And I said you know what? I'm going to choose the water in that situation. I'm not going to say anything, I'm going to choose the water. In that situation, I'm not going to say anything, I'm going to let her come through.
Speaker 2:And it was interesting because it was actually a giving to God full situation. And the guy said to me he said listen. He said come on. He said come on up. And he said put on. And I said what? And he put. He said put all your groceries on there. And I said are you serious? He said I'm going to pay for all of your groceries today. Yes, isn't that amazing. He said all right, lord, I get it, I'm going to give it to you all the time, you know, and that it's just.
Speaker 2:it's so important to really give it to God and ask the Lord okay, what do you like? What do I need to do in this situation? A lot of times, like you said before, it's like okay, they need to change. Even if you're justified, lord, what are you trying to grow in me and pour out of me in this situation? And the thing about that it's not always easy. In fact, a lot of the times it's very difficult.
Speaker 1:It is, you know, pastor Bill and Lynn. You know, one of the things I think about is sometimes what I have learned to do in my life, whether it's ministry, people, anything that goes on in my world. I always ask God what is the mind of Christ in every circumstance, because you know what if we're not careful? I can look at my wife.
Speaker 1:I can look at my kids and they can be wrong and I can go to them and say but they're wrong. They're wrong. But God said that's not what I'm after in this season. I may be after something in you. Maybe I'm trying to make you more patient, Maybe I'm trying to make you more loving, Maybe I'm making you more kind or whatever. Maybe he's trying to get you just to simply die to things. But that's something that I have learned. In any situation, I don't care if my car breaks down, if my money is funny and my change is strange, it don't matter what it is. I'm always asking God what are you doing? Because I feel like the quicker I can get to the mind of Christ, the quicker I can move on from whatever circumstance, and usually if I repent even as you said, Pastor Bill, he said repent that times of refreshing may come from the Prince of the Lord. So what are your thoughts on getting the mind of Christ in circumstances that hit your relationship?
Speaker 4:I think everything that we go through there's a lesson that can be learned if we're going to start a lesson, and so I will ask myself that exact question Okay, what can I learn from this? Because I don't want to take this test again.
Speaker 2:Exactly, that is so true.
Speaker 4:Every thing I go through, I'm going to learn something, and if I don't learn it, then I have to retake and go back around that mountain and ladies who are watching this listen to this. We're not getting any skinnier going around the same mountain over and over. Let's just get to the mountain, learn what we need to learn and not keep repeating the same things over and over again. If you really dive deep, it's the same issue, different person causing it. So what have I not learned? That I can get through this quicker and not have to retake.
Speaker 3:that's right amen amen pastor bill yeah, I mean, you know we're, we're Ephesians tells us that we have the mind of Christ. You know, we're promised the mind of Christ. We're seated um with Christ in heavenly places. So so in our reality as a we, we are human beings, but we're also spirit beings, and so the reality is I call it like we have dual citizenship. We have citizenship where, you know, as my passport I have a United States passport, but my other citizenship is in heavenly places places.
Speaker 3:So I can choose to be thinking just in the ways of the world or I can be thinking in the mind of Christ, which we are freely given as born-again believers. I mean, it's not something that we strive to attain. We have the mind of Christ, our position is in Christ. So we just tend to, I think, as Christians, we just tend to go throughout our day seeing, looking at the visual of just what's happening in reality right around us, and we're not even seeing a heavenly perspective of what's God saying in this situation. Why could God be allowing this situation? What is the mind of Christ for the situation?
Speaker 3:So if we ask for wisdom, he says I'm giving it every time. I'm giving it every time Because there are things we ask for, but we ask amiss, so we don't get it. And we spend so much time thinking about what's not being answered, rather than if we ask for wisdom. Every time, there's wisdom, and so the Lord will deposit wisdom when we don't know what to do, because we've all been in relationships where it's like I do not even know. The next thing I say is going to be wrong regardless. We've been in that situation. Things are so tense, so difficult, it's like I don't even know what to say. Well, that's when you need the mind of Christ. That's when you need the wisdom of the Lord on what to say and when to say it. I was just looking at a scripture here. I was reminded of a scripture. I got to put my glasses on to read it, but in Genesis, it might be the first time stripes mentioned.
Speaker 3:I haven't done a word study on it but in verse, in Genesis, chapter 13, verse 8, it says then Abram so stripes have been around a long time. It's said to Lot let there be no strife between you and me, between your herdsmen or my herdsmen, for we are kinsmen, Is it not the whole land that's before you and I'm like, wow, I mean even back in the day. We're talking about family situations and they're dividing up their wealth, their riches, their herds, their families. We want to remain family. We know we got to go in two different directions here for our families to prosper all sorts of situations. But the prayer that Abram said is let there be no strife among us, and not just among me and you, but our herdsmen, our families. Let there be no strife among any. That's a powerful prayer when you're talking about thousands of people.
Speaker 3:When you're talking about, you know, thousands of people, yeah.
Speaker 4:Because that reminds me that the strife that we have is affecting more than just me and him. Yes, wow, just you and your husband. It's affecting your kids, it's affecting your friendships, it's affecting everything. We tend to feel like we're in this little bubble, wow, everything. We tend to feel like we're in this little bubble, wow. What I feel is just about me, but it actually really is about everyone that you're connecting with.
Speaker 4:They're going to feel. You've walked into someone's home and you're like, oh, something's not right, something's up. And one of the things that I know that the Lord has helped me to do is that I had to learn the difference between praying about my husband and praying for my husband, praying about my kid.
Speaker 2:That's good though. Yeah, that is good.
Speaker 4:Praying about your spouse or your kids, you're just focusing on what's happening right now, how it's making you feel, how it's affecting your emotions, but when you pray for, you're carving the gold out of that person and you're seeking the mind of Christ for that person. What do you see in my husband that I need to see? What do you say about my kids that I need to start saying? You say about my kids that I need to start saying it's about really looking deep into the person and who that person is in relative to their relationship with the Lord, versus what that person is doing in relationship with yourself. If we can begin to do that when we're in strife with our spouse or anyone, lord, let me see how you see this person, because if I can have your eyes towards this person, then I can have your thoughts towards this person. I can see them the way you see them and then I can begin to hear what they're meaning, not necessarily what they're saying it changes you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and with that I'm going to kind of tie what you guys shared together, because I think many times, when strife can hit too, it can be a plan of the enemy to once again to blessing block.
Speaker 2:You know, Pastor.
Speaker 1:Bill, the scripture you mentioned. That's such a powerful scripture. I've preached it several times and the revelation I got from that what was really unique is when you hit strife, you have to prefer the other one. Uh, you got yourself. Abraham said hey, lot, what you want, I'll take leftovers. And he said so obviously, and I'm going to read it just so everybody kind of catches it. And he says here in verse 10 a lot lifted up his eyes and saw all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered everywhere before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, like the garden of the Lord, like the land of Egypt, as you go towards Zorah. Then Lot chose for himself. Notice that Abraham said hey, listen, you go ahead, take whatever you want. Lot said I want for me, I want this, I want this.
Speaker 1:And, as we know the story, lot ended up choosing a place that was going to be destroyed. But this is what I think is really unique and why we need the mind of Christ, even in situations I have learned many times. Even in a marriage, she could be frustrated about something, I could be frustrated about something, but neither one of us are wrong and we're both not wrong and we're both not all the way right, you can both have a piece of the puzzle, and what I mean by that is many times God is doing something even greater than you could have imagined. So God allowed that strife to be between Abraham and Lot because once Abraham preferred Lot and said hey, you go ahead, do whatever it is that you're going to do.
Speaker 1:I think what's really amazing here is that the Bible says Lot lifted up his eyes and he saw Sodom and Gomorrah and he went over that way. But then, after they separated and got the strife out, then the Lord said to Abraham, after Lot separated from him, lift up your eyes now, look from the place where you are northward, southward, eastward and westward, for all the land which you see, I give to you and your descendants forever. And I could go through the rest of it there. But I think it's really unique that once they got the strife out, lot got a different perspective. Then God gave Abraham a perspective and got the promised land. So as long as the strife was there, the promised land couldn't come. And once they got the strife out, something happened.
Speaker 3:That is so good man.
Speaker 1:I'm going to have to get that sermon.
Speaker 1:But I think that's the reason why many times I've learned in our relationship. Whenever we start seeing strife, my thing is just like let's get it out. Let's get out God. What are you doing in me, getting the mind of Christ asking Lord to purge anything out of my life that needs to be purged out. God, what are you doing in her Back to what you said Pastor Lynn doing in her back to what you said, pastor Lynn? We can't change ourselves, but I've changed the other person, but we can change ourselves, and that's the only person we have power over and that's the only person I believe that God is looking at, is asking me to look at me, and when we do that, something happens. But I want to transition to something real quickly here. What do you guys do? Because strife can hit.
Speaker 2:You know this is not all sounds good on paper but what do you guys do when you get stuck, have you?
Speaker 1:ever gotten stuck? And what do you do when, like all right, we're talking, she's trying to tell me something, I'm trying to tell her something, nothing's getting through. One day's gone by, two days gone by, three days gone by? How do you, what do you guys do when you get stuck? If y'all ever get stuck, cause y'all look like you may not do that, so maybe you can help us out, Maybe you can help us out, get help.
Speaker 4:I think one of the things that we as especially those of us who've grown up in the church like literally, like born on Saturday and church on Sunday we have this perspective that if there's any problems in my life, I must not have enough Jesus.
Speaker 4:So I got to hide it and pretend like everything's okay and all that's doing is, as Bill would say, just kicking the can down the road rather than just dealing with what's going on and it's okay. It's actually beneficial to have someone in your life that you know loves your husband just as much as loves me, and that's the key.
Speaker 1:That's huge.
Speaker 4:Someone in your relationship that you both know that they love you equally. I'm not going to go to my mom and say all the stuff that Bill has done, because I will forgive Bill but my money will be validated for the story that's right, that's a great point, pastor Lynn. We're going to go to someone that loves us both equally and say, okay, this is what's going on and we just need someone to help us talk through this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's so great. I mean, that's a key. And we've been blessed with having several people in our lives over different seasons. I mean, we've been married 28 years now, and so in 28 years we've had different people in our lives that we could go to, which has been really, really, really helpful. And then God's blessed us with being able to be that for other people too, you know, and the funny thing is, sometimes when we're counseling other couples, people, whatnot, you end up giving them advice and Holy Spirit's thinking to you like, why don't you do this? Yeah, that's so good. I mean, why are you even try this one? Put this suit on and it's going to work. And we'll laugh at each other and be like, wow, we're telling them to do all this. They'll leave and we'll go, and so we need to do that. We need to do that in our life.
Speaker 2:Did you ever call somebody and you guys were going at it and you stuck and then, when they answered the phone call or got to you, your problem was over.
Speaker 3:That's good. It probably has happened. Nothing comes to mind.
Speaker 1:I've had that several times.
Speaker 1:I'll know the problem was over, but we definitely kicked that can down the road and said, okay, I want to interject in that because actually in my own world, even as a pastor before I was married, I went through a real difficult time early, two thousands and whatever and I really wasn't submitted to authority the way that I should have been and didn't recognize it, didn't know it wasn't just I was rebellious, just didn't quite recognize.
Speaker 1:I pastoringoring to a lead pastor of a church and I was just young, anointed to preach but had no type of understanding on a lot of things and kind of got thrusted in a situation.
Speaker 1:So I had this major crash and I remember all I did. I understood I need to listen, more, need to listen. So I got to a point where I didn't make any decisions without consulting my authority and I got to a point where all of a sudden I was so humbled by it that I would call up my pastor and be like, hey, listen, I want to do X, y, z, I'm going through this. I leave a voicemail and then all of a sudden, three or four days would go by, he'd finally get back to me and like, right, when he'd get back to me. God gave me the answer like two hours before, and what the Lord was showing me in that time, that, even though you need to be submitted, you're not stuck. You need to go to the throne before you go to the phone, and so I had to learn that process in my life.
Speaker 1:So even in marriage relationships, sometimes if you are at a point where you're getting help from somebody, you can go to them, go to them, go to them. But many times we're just not working. What?
Speaker 1:God said and if we work what God shows us, it will work. But sometimes what we do is we want to go to somebody and fix our spouse or whatever it might be. But I just wanted to mention that because I know several times in my life where I've seen that happen. And then all of a sudden, the breakthrough hits and I think what God is showing us is hey, listen, you've got your answers within you. You don't always work what you got. Work what you got, that's so good.
Speaker 2:I'm just curious, since we're talking about all the strife stuff do you remember your first argument when you first got married? Do you remember what that was?
Speaker 3:Oh, my goodness, see, these are what need the pre-questions.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 2:You've been married for 20 years. Yeah, the reason I'm asking that. It's interesting how, when you first get married, you need all this and you need him to respond this way, or you need her to respond this way, and then it's like, oh, I don't need that anymore because you've grown. But I just think it's so interesting to find out what one of the first arguments were.
Speaker 3:Well, it wasn't our first. I can tell you our first Christmas argument.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, I see that, look on her. I see the look.
Speaker 4:This one I'm still dealing with a little bit. This was like six months.
Speaker 3:That's why the look yeah, we had been married about six months and we lived in this apartment. And her parents said, hey, hey, what do you guys want for christmas? And and um, I said, well, you know what we really need. Now I'm telling them this not, lynn, right? What we really need is a vacuum cleaner, a vacuum cleaner. And they were like, oh yeah, I got it. And I'm thinking, yeah, cause this apartment filled with carpets everywhere and our vacuum cleaner is like garbage and you know, if we just had a vacuum cleaner. So, so we go to Lynn's parents' house for Christmas and they've got, you know, all these boxes for me and I'm opening them up and there's new shirts and ties and stuff for me to preach in. You know all this stuff, nice trench coat, yeah, like I mean they really it's our first Christmas, they did really good.
Speaker 4:And then Lynn and I opened my gift and it's a vacuum cleaner Now oh, did you put a gift in it? I'm not going to know In the conversation about needing a vacuum cleaner.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I get the vacuum cleaner, um and so, yeah, this every christmas, this is our conversation. We'll say, okay, just remember, I like shiny, bright, nice things yeah right, right, right, right no applying.
Speaker 3:I'll buy that myself you know, and in one year. So we had a. We had conflict over that, for sure. She's like I mean, you're, you know I don't get nothing for myself, but I got the house vacuum and then you expect me to vacuum, so exactly, that's right. Um, yeah, and so one year even it wasn't too many years. After that, uh, I bought lynn a really, a really nice uh mixer like you know, a mixer to make bread and all this stuff oh my goodness, wait, wait who is this for?
Speaker 3:I said, you know, and it was. I remember it was. No, it was kaufman's and it was nice.
Speaker 4:Well, I thought you'd like to bake like your mom.
Speaker 2:But did everybody hear that she said she didn't bake. Right, right, right.
Speaker 3:I wanted her to bake. So, instead of me buying my own mixer and learning to bake myself, I bought her a mixer, expecting her to learn to bake and put a bow on it. And then that's when I finally realized, okay, there's going to be, unless she mentions it. That's when I finally realized, okay, there's going to be, unless she mentions it there are no appliances for Christmas, so I got 26 of 20, 28.
Speaker 3:Right, it only took two Christmas she asked for. She asked for something like man, I would really like this. I'll take note and buy that and that's it. Well, he buys that.
Speaker 4:And something else.
Speaker 3:But I wanted. I wanted her to make bread, so I bought her a mixer.
Speaker 2:But I'm buying some of the iron yeah, so they can iron your clothes, yeah right right so you know, now that we're, you know we're. We're approaching the christmas, we're in the Christmas season. I would love to know what was your best gifts, like most memorable gifts that you gave to one another.
Speaker 4:Wow.
Speaker 2:I know I'm putting you on the spot, yeah, and it can be just one of them. Maybe you have a ton of them, but maybe just one, yeah you know, the funny thing is with us.
Speaker 4:I think we do more memorable type things for our anniversary okay, okay then, yeah, we spend most of.
Speaker 3:We buy each other a lot of gifts for christmas, don't you? But our, our memory stuff is always around our anniversary um, okay yeah. Yeah. So if we just want to say gifts, yes, let's do that, yeah, but.
Speaker 3:I mean you know there was. I mean, obviously, every year Christmas is like these great you know surprise gifts. We try to. We make gifts to make each other laugh and have a good time and uh, and then we have some you know serious gifts that we need, but the um, you know one we take a trip every year for our anniversary and so we've done that since year one, so we've done a lot of them and the key is that we uh, I mean we have done. We have been poor and we've been not so poor, so we've done a lot. You know more elaborate trips or we've done.
Speaker 4:Camping in cabins that you couldn't pay me to be in.
Speaker 2:Oh, didn't we talk about camping.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we did we talked about camping.
Speaker 2:I wish we had more time because I'd love to go into that a little bit more. Okay, no, camping no camping.
Speaker 3:So I've surprised Lynn with several.
Speaker 4:I guess my favorite. My favorite gift was it was our 25th anniversary and he had gotten me an anniversary ring with the diamond for every five years. Wow, Wow I love that. And it's on my hand. Yes, that's probably been my most like. I was the most shocked because I just didn't expect it and so, yeah, because we already had a 25th anniversary.
Speaker 3:Well, we had a 20th anniversary, a big trip that we did to europe, uh, which was, which was wonderful. And then the 25th, lynn was like hey, don't go overboard on this one, let's, yeah, plan a big thing for our 30th, let's 25th, let's do. But I surprised you with that he surprised me so yeah, it was really good.
Speaker 3:And, um, lyn Lynn bought me for Christmas one year. Lynn bought me a gold necklace that you know it wasn't even about. You know, I like jewelry and so I wear a lot of jewelry church. Um that, unbeknownst to me, went to lynn and or she went to him and she said, hey, I would really like to buy bill this. But I think at that time we all she, we only had like 300 dollars or something like that to be able to spend.
Speaker 3:We were young and and um, and she was like what can you give me? And he ends up with her like um, a 1200 necklace for like five years and just said, don't worry about it, just bless your husband. And so she was able to bless me with something that I mean she saved for, sacrificed for, and it was way beyond anything that I was giving her that year. And so I still have that necklace, I still wear it and it means something. So it's not even about necessarily the value of it, but it was just about the thoughtfulness of her being able to say, hey, I only got this, what can I get, you know? And he ended up, you know, blessing our family.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's so cool. Well, you know it's funny. We're so glad to have you guys and thank you for taking time to come and hang out with us and just to share. You know I'm getting to know you Obviously. You know I'm getting to know you Obviously, you know you guys a lot more. And then, like when I came to Pittsburgh, you guys were gone and then we've kind of reconnected.
Speaker 1:But the more I listen to you talk, the more that I listen to you guys, your stories, number one I know you guys have been through the fire, you've been refined, you've been processed. I understand why God has you. With the platforms that you have, you don't have the wisdom that you guys have unless you have been processed. And I so appreciate what you guys share, what you bring to the table. Covenant Church of Pittsburgh, along with OA City, is blessed to have you guys as pastors and I believe you guys are just hitting the tip of the iceberg of what God's going to do in your life. And so thank you guys so much for your time and for your wisdom and I'm sure we're going to probably hit you up somewhere in 25 to have you guys come back on again. We so appreciate you guys, we love you guys and we pray God's best upon everything that you guys do.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. We are very honored. Hit us up anytime. We would just love to serve you in any type of capacity that we can, and you have a great audience, and so hopefully they keep cheering you on. Amen, amen, god bless you guys. All right, see you.
Speaker 1:So closing thoughts.
Speaker 2:Well, that was so good. Well, while they were both talking, I was taking my own notes and I think you know it's interesting with this strife thing. You know you have to be careful. I know we've talked about this where those special moments the enemy wants to rob. So you know you're fighting over things that really don't matter. A lot of them really don't matter, and at the end of the day we always talk about this at the end of the day you're thinking, once you get through it, what did I talk about? So I let all these special moments go because of what?
Speaker 1:Nothing really significant, and we have to remember too the enemy comes to steal, to kill and to destroy Thrive is a tactic of the enemy to steal what is valuable, to kill what's living and destroy what God is building in your life, and when you can begin to recognize that you are not each other's enemy. Many of you are fighting your spouse right now and you think the spouse is the issue, but sometime, as I heard it said years ago, it's the enemy enemy. And so sometimes God's trying to kill that area of your life that he's trying to get to, so then it doesn't give place to the enemy. You understand that you have to give place to Satan. There are some things that are attacks and there's sometimes we give place because of the own junk in our own trunk.
Speaker 1:Matter of fact, if I had time I'd go into that on how, when you're dating, before you go mile high, everybody goes through baggage check. The purpose behind dating is baggage check. You got to go through TSA. You got to go through the metal detect. You got to hold your hands up. If they see anything, they're winding it, making sure Is there anything in there? Why? Because once we're on the plane, everybody that's on the plane is in jeopardy, based upon what you bring in your baggage. So it's important that we recognize our own stuff, otherwise we'll be blaming each other. I'll be blaming you for stuff in my past. You'll be blaming me for stuff in your past.
Speaker 2:We won't get anywhere. We won't get nowhere, we won't get anywhere. And I thought another key thing that Pastor Lynn said, and I just want to encourage everybody as it encouraged- me, we need to go from a point of praying about our spouse to praying for more.
Speaker 2:That is so good. You know, and I'm sure all of us, when we go into our prayer closets we've kind of gone back and forth but some of us get stuck in the praying about and we just get stuck there. Let's go from praying about to really praying for and interceding for one another, praying for that spouse to get that wisdom that he or she needs, to get that strength, to get that peace, whatever it may be. Making sure that we are in there and, ladies, being that, help me that God has called us to be for our husbands.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen. So listen, if y'all have enjoyed this episode, like, subscribe, follow, share, go to iHeartRadio, go to iTunes, wherever you get your podcasts, and make sure you follow us, because we've got a whole lot more coming. It's been such a great time. We wish you guys a wonderful Merry Christmas. Keep strife out of your relationship. That's right.
Speaker 1:I believe there's people watching even right now that as you take heed to what you've learned today you didn't tune in by happenstance or by accident but as you take heed to these things, there are blessings coming for you in 25. There are breakthroughs, there are open doors. There are things right now that are being held up because of the strife that is in your life. As you allow strife out, open up the front door, a back door, every window you got. Kick strife out. You are going to welcome the blessing of the Lord into your life. I believe that there's healing in relationships that are going to take place. Your family members I believe there's somebody listening and watching right now that there are family members that God has called to be saved and they can't get saved because of the strife that is in your life. If you will begin to defeat strife, take a hold of your spouse, your boyfriend, your girlfriend and say you know what? We're not going to fight anymore, even while you're dating, you're engaged and you're fighting about what color flowers you're going to have and everything else. Just keep the strife out and as you do that, god is going to bless you in a supernatural way. So we want to pray for you and then we're going to let you go.
Speaker 1:Today, father, in the name of Jesus, we thank you for every person that has listened, that has watched, that's tuned in. Father, we bind the spirit of strife. Father, god, we break it today. In the name of Jesus, and and Lord, we ask right now that your Holy Spirit would just come in and give wisdom, that we would not try to change one another, but, lord, we would allow you to be the author and the finisher of our faith.
Speaker 1:Oh God, you started it. Lord, you'll finish it. Father, help us to know the mind of Christ in every single circumstance. And, father, I just pray for healing, that times of refreshing would come. And, lord, that, even as the word was given about Abraham and Lot, that, lord, god, you would cause us to lift up our eyes and see the inheritance that you have for our life. And Father, we thank you. We give you praise, honor and glory In Jesus' name. We pray Amen, amen, amen. Well, god bless you all. We thank you so much for tuning into Dimensions, and we'll see you next time here, where we're taking you from one level of glory to the next, in Jesus name.
