Dimensions
Join J. Anthony and Tiffany Gilbert as they discuss current events and give biblical commentary to help educate, encourage, and elevate your faith.
Dimensions
Life After Abortion: Helping Post-Abortive Parents Find Wholeness and Healing.
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The shame and silence surrounding abortion creates a massive barrier to healing, but God's redemption is available to anyone willing to take that first step toward freedom.
• Pam Irizarry shares how she reluctantly became involved with Deeper Still after her own daughter revealed her abortion experience
• The spiritual and emotional impact of abortion affects both women and men in profound ways
• Post-abortion trauma can create disconnection in relationships, especially between mothers and living children
• The abortion pill creates new challenges and trauma that require special healing approaches
• Complete healing often requires extensive prayer coverage to combat spiritual warfare
• Healing isn't an instant process but a journey that transforms individuals, marriages, and generations
• Deeper Still offers free retreats for anyone seeking healing from abortion trauma
Call Deeper Still Pittsburgh at 724-972-3431 or visit deeperstillpittsburgh.org to register for their next retreat on April 11-13. There is no cost to attend.
no-transcript. A privilege to come to you at least weekly, if not more, to share with you current events, different events, different things that are happening, what's taking place in the world, and I'm so glad to be right here beside my beautiful wife.
Speaker 2:I am so glad to be here with you and listen everybody. I wish you could have saw us beforehand because Pastor Jay was you were moving. Yeah, you like that Yo listen.
Speaker 1:we take requests, We'll hook up the. Dj. I was a DJ in my former life, and so if you've got something you want to throw my way, well, I played around a little bit.
Speaker 2:I mean, I wasn't like in the club. You know something new about your husband. You learn it new every day.
Speaker 1:So you weren't I had turntables and all that I used to mix and do different. I can't do that now, but you'll just have to picture it in your mind of what it would be like. So you're looking good today, thank you as always.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Now you're messing me up. If I wasn't married, I'd go after you answer.
Speaker 2:I mean geez.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I'm trying to keep my hair together, cause you got me with these earphones on. You can make anything work. Oh, thank you. Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. See, that's what you got to do, gentlemen. You got to make sure your lady knows all the time that my eyes are only for her.
Speaker 3:That's right here, it's right here, it's right here, y'all but it's so great to be with you guys.
Speaker 1:We've got a great show for you today. Listen. First thing we'd like you to do is take a moment to like, subscribe, follow, share, do all of that. As always, whether you watch us on YouTube or on Facebook, listen. We're on iHeartRadio. We're on your Apple and Android store. Wherever it is that you can get a podcast, we are available. We've got a lot of great shows coming. We're going to be talking about different things going on with the economy, things with dealing in the politics. We're going to be talking about things with church. You know a little bit of this, a little bit of that. We talked about bringing some people on talking about sex in a godly marriage.
Speaker 2:What else we got? Godly marriage and, even within marriage, healing in a marriage. There's many marriages out there that you're in need of healing. You're in need of some reviving and restoring in your marriage. So we have people coming on that's going to talk specifically to that. So we're going to make sure that you are up to date on who's coming when they're coming what they're going to be talking about, so I'm excited.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen, amen. It's going to be great, y'all. So, and today, speaking of healing, we've got somebody phenomenal that we're about to bring on in just a second. As y'all know, we are involved in the pro-life fight and we opened up a pregnancy center back in April of 21. As a matter of fact, we're coming up on four years. I don't know why it seems like it's longer, but I mean, we've accomplished a lot in four years and I think that's why we have accomplished a lot.
Speaker 2:I mean, we've saved nearly 60 babies, just for everybody who knows about us and who's praying about praying for us, we just received our new state of the art ultrasound machine. So I just want to thank all of you for all of your prayers, support, financial support that's helped us get here, so we will actually be transitioning to a full blown medical center here in the near future. So thank you.
Speaker 1:Some of you might have heard us talk about this for a little while now, but it takes a minute Most of the times. It take two years to open a pregnancy center and a year to save your first baby. I thought we was pushing past 60 already, but you would know better than me, but I've been telling people almost 70. So I guess I'm off a little bit.
Speaker 3:That's in faith that we're believing God.
Speaker 1:But regardless to save 60 babies and under four years to start a pregnancy center with no money, no help, no anything. Now we got help as we went, but I mean like we didn't go into it with somebody financing us. We just went in faith, did what God called us to do and he has blessed us and, like I said, this will be our fifth gala coming up in August. Our fifth gala.
Speaker 2:Wow, number five and these galas are absolutely amazing. I mean we have some of the best speakers that come into town and God is always there. I mean the atmosphere is truly charged with the Holy Spirit and every year I've noticed it gets better and better and better. So keep a lookout.
Speaker 1:We're going to be sending out the save the dates cards here in a little bit. So what we do at the Pregnancy Center is we help people that are abortion minded, that want to have an abortion and try to stop and intercept them, educate women, empower women from the womb to the tomb. Even after we're done, helping them save their baby, we still are in their lives. That's what's cool about what we do. At our gala. We have a mom's table. I think we have a couple of mom's table, probably this year, of all different ladies that have said yes and now their babies are growing up. So now we'll have to be there, maybe four and five you're almost five years old, uh, coming in. It's just really cool to see actually three or four years old, if I, if I have it right, uh.
Speaker 1:But my point is that these are babies that would have been murdered but now they've been saved. But you know, there are some times that people don't, uh, don't make it to a pregnancy center. They end up saying yes to abortion and no to life, and so what do we do with them? And that's where our next guest here she is somebody that that is her mission and vision. She's been doing a phenomenal job, and what they do is they minister to women and men that have had abortions and that are experiencing residual effects, trauma or whatever else that's going on. But you work with her a lot closer than I do. She's a friend of both of ours, but why don't you introduce her and bring her up today?
Speaker 2:She is Well. She is a great friend. I love about our friendship. We were talking yesterday actually, and it's amazing, even if we've spent some months apart not really talking consistently. It's amazing Soon as we reconnect, it's like it's automatically there again. So I appreciate her, we love her. She's a woman of God, she's a mother, a grandmother, she is a leader in the community, in the pro-life community, in her church, and I don't know if she has. I feel like she should have some books coming out or something she should be writing books.
Speaker 2:So we'll find that out, but we want to welcome the executive director of Deeper Still, pam Irizarry, with us here.
Speaker 3:It's so nice to be here. It's so nice to be with you. I'm really excited this morning or this evening.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, it is so good to have you with us. You know you are such a phenomenal woman of God. I think that's first and foremost. You're a phenomenal woman of God. You're a phenomenal friend, leader, just advocate for the pro-life area sector, and that I love the fact that you have a heart for healing, you have a heart to see people set free and made whole by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1:So that's right. And listen before we go all deep into this stuff though we like to keep it a little light just for a moment, because we always have like a little monologue that we like to do but we have a little segment called Would you Rather, that we'd like you to participate in just a moment.
Speaker 2:All right, pam. Well, listen, we are foodies, we love food. He's more of a foodie foodie like meat and potatoes.
Speaker 1:I'm more of a dessert.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know if any of you are watching, but if you're like me, a meal is not complete, that's right.
Speaker 1:Unless there's dessert on the other end. A meal is not complete unless you have a treat.
Speaker 2:I love that A meal is not complete unless you have a treat, but I like to have my treats right after. So let me ask you this Would you rather if you couldn't eat, if you could only eat like one food area group, if you had to just eat meat or potatoes like type of food, or would you rather? Would you choose that? Or would you rather choose dessert options? Which one would you choose Absolutely?
Speaker 3:Dessert.
Speaker 2:Give her, give her applause for that one.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is good. I'm meat and potatoes. I'm a carnivore. I'd rather have meat and potatoes any day of the week. I don't want. I mean I could do it. I don't mean wrong. I like my treats, I do, but if it's an option, if it's an option, yeah. No, give me the meat. I want my steak. I want to go to Fogo Day, child Texas Day, brazil. I want to go to one of those steakhouse Capitol Grill.
Speaker 2:Capitol Grill, any one of those. Steakhouse Capitol Grill, any one of those. Well, you were looking for it. I'm just going to be honest everybody. I'm going to be transparent. He was looking for a treat late last night.
Speaker 1:And guess who I found it from. And guess who I found it from Pam, Right next door.
Speaker 2:Yes, see, pam, I have to keep everything stocked because these guys around here I'm surrounded by all guys they look for their treats. So I keep everything stocked. So all right. So the second question is would you rather live the rest of your life in Alaska or live the rest in Alaska? Now listen, if you live in Alaska, all your bills are paid. Or would you rather live in Phoenix, but the only bill that's paid is your AC?
Speaker 3:I'd have to say Arizona, arizona.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's me, I think, arizona. Where would you? Because I know you're a big financial, so you wouldn't have all your bills paid in Alaska In.
Speaker 1:Alaska. It's like dark for three days at a time. That's depressing. And then you got close. I mean Eskimos feel right at home there, and penguins, I mean they were right out front, you know we have deer and penguins. They'd be like, hey, good morning, they waddle across the street and stuff. Nah, I'm good, come be with me in Arizona where there's scorpions.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I guess Arizona you have the sun.
Speaker 2:I feel like when you're out in the sun, you have energy. You know what I mean. You can accomplish a lot, okay, all right, so let's move on now. Let's go. I'm going to go biblical on you here. So would you rather eat at the last supper or watch Jesus feed the 5,000, the multitude?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a tough one.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Um, okay, it would be more one-on-one interactive with you I was just thinking about that literally when you said that. I was just thinking it's more intimate yes see, I'm a little different with that one.
Speaker 1:I I would go do the same thing that y'all picked.
Speaker 1:I would be at the last supper but the reason why I would like to be there, because that was the transition of an old covenant into a new covenant. Yes, I mean, I mean think about it. I mean I tell people this all the time, especially, you know, we're getting ready to come into. Uh, we're about about a month away from easter, yeah, and so a lot of people they say you know, jesus sits down, he's got the 12 around them and he's breaking the bread and the juice or the wine actually at that time and having all these things, and what they don't understand is that this is my body which is broken. So he's changing up a covenant. You remember Jesus wasn't well liked everywhere. So they come in saying, hey, you're not going to do the Passover anymore the way that you did it.
Speaker 2:Now you're going to do the Lord's Supper, so he's transitioning everything before he died, before he was resurrected.
Speaker 1:So none of that was in vain.
Speaker 2:He's already instituting a new meal that was transitioning out of the Jewish custom.
Speaker 1:So, I'm sure there were disciples there saying what in the world is this guy doing? Now one minute he's doing this. Now they're trying to throw him off the edge of the city. Now he's talking about we ain't doing the Passover, no more. I'm your Passover lamb. So I would love to see all of the disciples and everything, and I would love to see what happened with Judas too, Cause you know he was going on and out.
Speaker 2:He was acting crazy Even before. Yeah, Wouldn't that be interesting.
Speaker 1:So that's my little sermon for the day.
Speaker 2:So I'm just going to throw this out there and I don't know, pam, I don't know if you've heard this, but there's something about the napkin. Have you heard about the napkin where it says that, yeah, yeah. That meant in those back in that day that communicated that he was coming back. I thought that that small detail it was so much, it was so powerful, so all right, well, thank you so much, pam Thanks for being a good sport.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right Now. We know a little bit about, a little bit more about you, all right, well, we're going to kind of just dive right in. And you know, I know, that I shared earlier how we we have kindred hearts. You know we have a heart to see people healed and set free by the power of the Holy Spirit. And so you are right now the executive director of Deeper Still. Can you just tell everybody a little bit about what Deeper Still is and what is it? What is its goal as an organization? What does it accomplish?
Speaker 3:Deeper Still is a beautiful ministry that brings healing to men and women who have had the experience of regret and grief, pain, trauma, of an abortion in their life. Abortion is a really ugly word. It's a topic that nobody wants to talk about and it's funny because I've heard our executive director, karen Ellison, who's the founder of Deaver, still say that when she goes to speak somewhere, she can clear a room. And I had that experience. Actually, I was invited to speak somewhere and I looked up and there were two people left in the room because people just they don't want to talk about it, but truly-.
Speaker 2:And it causes arguments too. I mean people. Not only do they shy away from it, but like people argue over this topic, it's a point of contention even in families as well.
Speaker 3:It really is, but I like to say that, truly, it's not about death, but it's about life. It's about bringing people back to life, if you will, because their heart has just been so wounded and so dead. And there's this abortion can leave a stain on your heart that no stain remover can put out, except for the blood of Jesus. And this, this ministry, truly brings people into a deeper place of healing and understanding the love of Jesus upon their life, that his, his blood, his forgiveness will cover all.
Speaker 1:You know, a lot of people don't realize, though, like I mentioned before, that you know, sometimes they get through the front lines of what we're doing and I think it's amazing. A lot of people say, like in the abortion line or the pro-life line, they'll say, well, you guys only care about the people if they make it, you know, from the baby being born and all of that, and that's the only thing that you care about. But I think it's outstanding that you guys are even doing things and I'm saying speaking, I know about this, but for people that are listening and that are watching, you're doing things on the back end of things, where people make mistakes, they make errors, we fall short. It is one of the most redemptive ways to show the love of Christ to people and I think for me, that's what's so outstanding about what you're doing. But why did you get involved in this type of ministry?
Speaker 3:Well, I did not want to be involved in this ministry at all. My daughter went away on a retreat. She disappeared for the weekend and my husband and I, my son-in-law, were like where did she go? And she said, babe, to her husband you got to trust me, you just got to trust me. I got to go away for this weekend and when she came back we discovered that she had gone on a deeper still retreat. And she went first to her father and said dad, I have to talk to you about something. And he, she, was too afraid to come to me. And my husband said you need to go talk to mom. So she came and talked to me and said mom, sit down, I have to tell you something. I went away on a deeper still retreat I have had because I had an abortion. And the look on her face was um, panic, Like she didn't know what I was going to say. And I said to her honey, what you don't know is that I've had an abortion also and she was just like what you. You and she couldn't fathom that because you know her whole life growing up, my, my, my husband and my in-laws. They're pastors. My father-in-law was a Presbyter for 60 some years. Our family's always been involved in ministry. So for her to hear me say that I had had an abortion, she was just in complete shock.
Speaker 3:So the beautiful thing about that was when she told me that she had an abortion, I told her what happened next was incredible. The Holy Spirit just came into the room and the room filled with the presence of the Lord and you could smell the amazing aroma of roses, Wow. And she said, Mom, did you smell that? Do you smell that? We just kind of fell into each other's arms, just comforting one another, loving one another, just bringing the forgiveness, the love, the healing from from father God. And the presence of the Lord was so powerful and she was like you could taste it, mom. You could taste it was so powerful and she was like you could taste it, mom. You could taste it, Taste the smell of, of, of the presence of the Lord, and, and it was, it was so comforting. It was like the Lord, the Lord, approved of us, showing us that he, he was pleased with with our hearts, with our heart posture to to receive forgiveness from the Lord and to offer forgiveness to one another. And it was. It was just really beautiful.
Speaker 3:And when you've had an abortion, there's a disconnect with relationships and there's disconnect living children, and so, even though she was my girl, my only daughter, there was a bit of a disconnect in our lives with one another and after that we have just become so close. It's just amazing. She serves on the Deeper Still Atlanta team. She's been involved with Deeper Still for over 10 years and we're actually we minister together and we are just closer than ever. So it's, it's amazing how God just healed our relationship as a result of being obedient to the Lord.
Speaker 3:So then she said Mom, you need to go to a retreat. And I said, no, no, no, I'm good, I don't need to go. So then I went, I went ahead and I was like giving God my resume I do this, I do this, I'm involved in this ministry, in that ministry. And she said, but no, you need to go. And I said, no, I'm good, I've had a lot of healing. So what I discovered was no much, no matter how much healing you think you have, there's always more. There's always more. My daughter is a New Yorker. We're New Yorkers. Um, they were born. My husband's a New Yorker. We're New Yorkers. They were born, my husband's a New Yorker. They're born and raised in New York and she's a bully and she was just like you need to go, so you had no option, pam.
Speaker 3:So after about a year I finally relented. I went and I discovered that, yes, there was so, so much more healing. And then she said you know, mom, you need to be involved in this ministry. And I said no, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:I do not want to be identified as a woman who had an abortion because there's a stigma attached to it. People will judge you. People in the church will judge you. I will tell people that I'm a serial killer, but I will not tell them that I murdered my child, like there is no forgiveness for that. People in the church are unforgiving. They have no grid for it, they just don't get it. So after about I don't know, maybe another year or so, I was invited to serve on a retreat as a team member, and it was at that retreat that the Lord wrecked my heart, as I saw women and men come into that retreat looking one way, broken, hard, frightened, fearful, spirit of death on them, spirit of depression. And when I saw what God did in three days in their lives, they walked out of that place completely redeemed, forgiven, free, and it was then that I said I want to be a part of this.
Speaker 1:Wow, well, you know Pam real quick. I want to digress for a minute here because you shared a lot, but I want to go back to where your husband said go to your mom. Did he know I'm sure he probably already knew that you had an abortion? Was he setting something up that he kind of knew was coming, or what was his reasoning behind that?
Speaker 3:Well, I guess I'm going to kind of share something I don't usually share. But so my husband and I are post-abortive together.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, wow.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, yeah, so he so he didn't share anything at that time, he just shared. He said go talk to your mom. So he kind of knew. So how was he brought into all of it? I mean, if you can go into something, that's fine, if you can't, but how was that with the three of you then?
Speaker 3:So that's really interesting because he did not want to be a part of Deeper Still ministry either. But when I took it over it was right at the onset of COVID and my husband had gone to Atlanta to help my daughter with the kids and I was trying to launch Deeper Still Pittsburgh, relaunch it, and I was here by myself and I was just crying on the phone like honey, I've got to start this ministry and COVID's hit and I just need help. And you're in Atlanta and I'm here and he said I'll help you. And I said you can't help unless you go through a retreat and he said all right, all right, I'll go through a retreat.
Speaker 1:So men can go through it too then. I think, that's one of the misconceptions, pam, is that a lot of times people think it's just going to be the ladies. It's just the ladies, just the ladies. It takes two to tango and you know, for the people that may be listening what are the effects of abortion on men, like how, what do you see?
Speaker 3:different from women. Well, men are not as transparent. So as much as a woman will hold this inside and carry it to their grave, so will men. They will not talk about this. So it affects men in three different ways. So there are the men that say I don't want this baby, get rid of it, I don't want anything to do with you, I am not going to support you, I am not going to be part of your life. This was a one night stand. Get rid of this thing. They call it the thing.
Speaker 3:And then there's the men that don't have a choice, because it's well, after all, it's the women's my body, my choice, and the men don't have a say in it. You don't have a say, men don't have a say in it. You don't have a say. And then there's the men that never knew. So it it, it packs them, because men were created to be um providers. They were created to be um protectors. They were created to lead, and so it goes against the very nature, um the God given nature inside of them to protect, to lead, to provide. And so there's a hole in their heart as well, and it leaves a devastating hole in their heart. Oh, go ahead, pam, they don't want to talk about it. They think that they're okay. Men always think that they're okay, they're good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's so important, that is so important we always got it together.
Speaker 1:I would say, I would tell you all the time we need love too, we need nurturing too. We need it as well. That's why you have a mama's voice, so there's things that are need to be comforted and healed and nurtured in our hearts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so true. You know, pam. You know you said that you never wanted to do that, that's it wasn't on your radar. To go deeper Still, you didn't want to go to the retreat. And isn't it amazing how we tell the Lord a lot of times're not going to do this or we're not going to do that, and his plan is so different. Like I said, I never would date a pastor and here.
Speaker 1:I am married to him, you know and.
Speaker 2:but I just want to go back just a little bit. You said you know it's funny when you were talking about your daughter. I just I got touched again and how you both embraced and how you came together and when you said you tasted, what did you say when you said you tasted?
Speaker 1:what.
Speaker 2:The aroma, you know I, when you said that, I thought, well, it's, I just saw even freedom. I'm sure it was like tasting freedom to to give that, to share that, because I know, you know, even with myself, um, you know, having miscarriages, um, although different, it's a loss, and a lot of times we don't talk about that as women. But it's amazing how, when we go through different things in life, the enemy will want us to keep quiet. He wants us to stay in an Island all by ourself. Don't tell anybody, because if you tell somebody, they're going to think this of you, they're going to think that of you, they're not really going to understand. You're going to make a fool of yourself if you share. But really, when you start opening up, it was amazing when I started opening up about my miscarriages and losing children, there were so many women that were actually in my circle that I knew that, I never even knew that had one, and then we just started ministering to one another.
Speaker 2:And it's been the same even in our pregnancy center, when people, when women open up, even our staff, the people that work there. You know it was amazing.
Speaker 3:One woman opened up, then another one opened up and said hey, I had one too, and I had one too.
Speaker 2:You know the enemy wants to, and for those of you that are watching that, maybe it's in a different area that you're saying I can't tell anybody. It would be devastating if I told anybody. I can't share this. But you have to understand that, just like Pam and her daughter, there was a freedom that occurred on the other side. The enemy doesn't want you free, the enemy wants you bound, he wants you living in a place, in a state of condemnation. He doesn't want you to share, because if you share, he is so terrified that if you share, you are actually going to get the freedom that the Lord died for on the cross. And so, pam, if a woman comes to you or a man for that matter and says, hey, listen, this is what I've been through, I want help, what are what's kind of the first few steps that you would encourage them to take at that point?
Speaker 3:When somebody comes to me and calls me, the first thing I do is say well, let's, let's pray, let's, let's talk to the Lord, let's, let's find, let's find the Father's heart in this. I'll pray with them. Let's find the father's heart in this, I'll pray with them. And many times, you know, they'll just break down and cry and just share a story, that one story seems to be more horrific than the next, and there's plenty of stories out there. And I let them know that Jesus loves them, that his love is greater than their sins. I let them know that what Jesus did on the cross, his redemptive, the shed blood of Jesus, paid the debt that they owe. That's right, and that there's so much more healing for them. Many of them are afraid to come forward, they're afraid to share, they're afraid to tell their families.
Speaker 3:I had a couple women a few retreats ago. Actually, there were three that came all at once and they were probably in their late 60s, some of them in early 70s, some of them in early 70s. They had never told anybody in their entire lives and they and the one had never told her husband that she was still with, and the other one her husband had died and she never had a chance to tell him and they had had their abortions prior to Roe v Wade, before it became legalized, and it was, you know, a real trauma for them. And so for them coming, the healing that they received, just being able, like you said, you know the enemy has his hands around your throat, he's stolen your voice, he has his hand around your throat and the first step is just getting them to talk. When they start talking, they start sharing.
Speaker 3:It's like, little by little by little, there's a release in just sharing their story, sharing what happened, because then it's in the atmosphere. The enemy has to take his hands off of them. That's right. And you know the Bible says we overcome by the word of our testimony. They start having a testimony and the blood of Jesus. You know we the Bible says we overcome by the word of our testimony they start having a testimony and the blood of Jesus. You know it covers them and it's so powerful to be able to share your story and the Lord reveals things to heal things. He can't heal it unless it's healed.
Speaker 2:That's good, that's good. I'm writing that down, pam. So that's really good yeah.
Speaker 3:Jesus said all the hidden things that are secret are going to come to light, and it's so important for those things to come forward so that he can heal them. When they remain hidden, when they remain buried, he can't touch them, and then the enemy has you in his clutches of secrecy, of shame. So once they start sharing their story, that's like the first step for them to just begin to feel like relief. I finally have shared this with somebody. It's out there and now I can start taking the next steps towards the healing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so good. Well, you know, I heard this and this is what we do. You know this is a part of what you do. You are sharing wisdom with these women and men, and I heard it put like this wisdom is actually making a decision now that you're going to be happy with later. So for me, on my end, I'm trying to prevent. I'm giving them wisdom, knowledge to help them prevent. You are giving them wisdom on how to heal, and that is so vital in this walk, and whether it's on our side you know, preventing the pregnancy or whether it's on the other side, pam, what was? I'm just curious, and you may have told me at some point, but I just can't remember what is the youngest person that came through your program organization and what has been. Who has been the oldest, and has that person been a male or female?
Speaker 3:Well, we have Deeper Still has about 30 chapters across the US, has about 30 chapters across the US, and so I'm and some of them have been active longer than I have been director of Deeper Still Pittsburgh, so I'm sure they have seen a lot younger. I've heard that there have been a lot of. There have been some as young as you know teenagers 17, 18. I in our chapter the youngest we've had were, I think, 21, the age of 21. And then the oldest woman that has come through us has been a woman that she flew in from Alabama and she was in her eighties and she had had an abortion in the day where, literally, it was with a coat hanger and it destroyed her womb so that she was never able to have children ever again.
Speaker 3:And she ended up um, I'm not sure if she actually founded the home, but she ended up having a home where she brought children in and she mothered them and she nurtured them and she raised them all her life. Even though she had had healing, even though she had she had, she never was able to become a mother. She was a mother and you know I just want to throw something in here that's that's interesting that Eve was called mother before she ever gave birth to her first child, and it's innate in us to mother. It's who we are. We're nurturers, we're caregivers, we're educators, we're lovers. That's who we are as women. And so this woman was able to love children, even though she never physically got to give birth to a child, and she came and received healing in her 80s.
Speaker 1:Wow, well, that's amazing. You know, I I think about that.
Speaker 2:I think about someone that would have a hanger abortion, I know somebody, well, somebody that their family member did it, oh my gosh, I mean the trauma of that and the physical ramifications.
Speaker 1:I mean that's just, you think about things like, oh, the pain of that, and you know, when you mentioned that, obviously that was way back in the day. Some people may still try to do that now. But now just getting your thoughts on it. We didn't plan on going down here, but your thoughts on the abortion pill. We're getting a lot of feedback on that and we're talking about it more and more and I think that's the new battle that pregnancy centers have to undertake. But what are your thoughts and I know you don't agree with it, but just some insight or whatever that you've had concerning the abortion bill.
Speaker 3:We as an organization have had a discussion around this because we're finding that, because this is the new direction that young people seem to be going into, children as young as 12, 13 can buy an abortion pill online through Amazon and they don't need parental consent. And it's so dangerous, and there are women that are, if not dying from this, they're becoming very ill from this and it's so dangerous. We did have one participant who came through a retreat, who had gone experience the abortion pill and the amount of trauma that she experienced was such that it it really it was. It was just really horrific that the pain that she was under and we really had to seek the Lord for um, it was like a, the PT, a PTSD, if you will. Um, we really had to seek the Lord on how to minister, how to heal, bring healing to her in a in a gentle way, because the things that she experienced were, I mean, she was able to see the live, the live birth coming out, and it was. You know, I don't want to get graphic, but it was, it was horrific.
Speaker 3:So, yes, we're really having to pray to the Lord for wisdom on next steps with this, because we we don't have an understanding. We don't have a grid. We need to really seek the Lord. How do we bring healing to these women? How do we bring healing to children that are going through this? Yeah, it's a, it's a. It's a new day, it's a new season. We've not experienced this before and we're. We just don't have a grid for it. We don't have a full understanding. We really need the mind of the Lord truly for this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because this abortion pill, pam, you know this, people think it's just the easiest way. It's an easy way, it's convenient. You know, you do it in the privacy of your home. It's like, okay, I'm going to pop these pills and move on.
Speaker 2:And, pam, I don't know if I, I don't think I told you this, but there was a, a woman that came in our center and initially she chose life. But then when she went back to her significant other, she, he persuaded her to go and take the, the abortion pill. But the problem was she went and ordered this pill online and she doesn't really even know where, like it was in Florida somewhere. So she came back to us, really concerned, and she said okay, I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm still pregnant, you know, I'm still coming up pregnant on the test, so I don't think it's it worked well. So, pam, we know that the abortion pill right now it's two pills. What she got from Florida was three pills. She got three pills and so what happened, pam, is that she was walking around with a deceased baby in her womb and had no clue.
Speaker 2:So I strongly encourage, I said, listen, get to the ER and that's how she found out. But I think about women who, like we were talking about, you can order it anywhere. But what if these women like it's not uncommon for women to come in our office and say, oh, I think I'm nine weeks pregnant, but we have found out that they're actually 20. I'm nine weeks pregnant, but we have found out that they're actually 20. So we know, after a certain amount of weeks, that abortion pill does not work. It doesn't work, you know. So I think that was a really good point. I'm glad you both I'm glad you mentioned that you went there and Pam, I'm glad you talked about that. Now we know and we were talking a little bit about this when we went down for a prayer on the sidewalk how it's a demonic principality that we are faced with, that we are fighting Now.
Speaker 3:We know that we're on the winning team.
Speaker 2:So we do know that, but we still have to walk it out. We have to walk out. You know the prayer and the consistency have you seen? I know you know, prior to us getting on today we were talking about you kind of going into the healing and deliverance aspect of things. Have you seen any type of manifestations come about even during the retreat, when you're you know, when you're going through the retreat with the men and the women?
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, you're dealing with a heavy demonic principality of death. I want to say that when God created mankind, we are distinctly different than any other of his creations. When he created everything else, he spoke them into existence, but with man, he breathed, yeah, breath of life. And so we carry, we are, we are made in his image and we carry his DNA, we carry his spirit, and Satan hates that. He hates that. He hates mankind.
Speaker 3:He has been trying to kill man since the beginning of time, and we've seen it throughout the scriptures, how babies have been targeted, babies have been targeted. And so you know, the enemy wants to create man. He'll he. The greatest way to create trauma is to create trauma within the womb or to create it in children. And then Satan said better yet, let's just kill all the babies, let's just kill. And so, yes, we've seen, we've seen manifestations, we've seen there is warfare, there is spiritual warfare. Satan doesn't want women to receive freedom, he doesn't want them to get their voice back. When they get their voice back, they become an advocate for life. And so there's such a struggle with death to life. And when they're free, god doesn't free them from something, he frees them to something. The enemy really tries to keep them in bondage, he really tries to keep them captured in that place of trauma, fear, pain, death. And so we have prayer layers in place.
Speaker 2:Good, good yeah.
Speaker 3:We have prayer meetings, sometimes six to eight up into a retreat. We have an individual prayer for each of our team members that serve. They have to have at least two different people praying for them, watching their back. As their rear guard, we have we have a watchman on the wall which is an e-sign up that is sent out prior to all the retreats that we have, and sometimes we've had as many as 200 people praying for us for a retreat. It's incredible. Somebody knows somebody, who knows somebody, and they send it out. And then we have what is called a Watchman on the Wall on site where we'll have people come in. They're just kind of like secret ninjas. They come in and they pray, they walk around the property, they pray for us. Nobody knows they're there. They come and go, nobody knows they're there.
Speaker 3:We have prayer marches where we take our, our beautiful worship flags and we just march around the property. We sanctify it, we cleanse it for kingdom purposes, we cleanse it for life and we just, we just bind anything that is not of Jesus. We command it to go and not have permission to be there, and then one of the most important prayers that we have is called the rear guard prayers. We, we understand that. You know, once you're there and you're under the protection of prayer layer, it's amazing. But then when people got home, it's kind of like they're singled out by the sniper. That's true, and the enemy can just really wreck havoc. So rear guard prayers is really powerful. So because of the way, because of our prayer layers, we don't see as many manifestations, because we're covered and we have everything bound and restrained under the power and the blood of jesus christ.
Speaker 1:But it's a real thing well, you know, speaking of warfare, one of the things that, uh, I I just want to share for a minute here on, in Genesis three, I believe the spirit of Molech was birthed out in Genesis three and Genesis four. Because there was a promise given to uh, to well, adam Eve and the serpent, the devil at the time. He said her seed is going to destroy your seed. So from that point on, there was a battle, uh, for what was going to come out of the womb, because the devil has been promised that the seed of the woman will destroy him. And then, therefore, that's why we see in Genesis, chapter four, where all of a sudden now Cain kills Abel, because we see that battle happening right there, the devil is already trying to kill the righteous seed. And so, for people that understand that, why Molech? Molech was the God that they would sacrifice babies to.
Speaker 1:The devil's always been after the seed. That's why he came after it with Moses, that's why he came after it during Jesus with Herod. All of these things happen because the devil knows the word. He understands that the seed from the woman is ultimately going to destroy him. And if you don't think about it, what's unique is that the devil has a seed too, because the Bible says that his seed is going to bruise her heel and her seed is going to bruise his head. So I mean, it's one of those things where they both have a seed that's operating. That's why you see Esau and Jacob battling in the womb, ishmael and Isaac fighting. There's constantly this thing here, but it goes back even into the womb when you talk about the seed. From that point on, molech said, hey, we've got to destroy the seed because that's where the life's gonna come.
Speaker 1:But what I love about it all what you're doing, though, pam is the fact that, even if somebody loses a child due to abortion and they choose to commit that act, that God is still a redeeming God. He's still redeeming. God gives us an opportunity to be able to use it for his honor and his glory. You know, we talked about how, when we lost our children due to miscarriage, the Lord gave me something, and he said my mother always wanted grandbabies and never, ever, ever had any, and that's one of the biggest regrets out of this she never got a chance to meet my wife, never got a chance to meet our kids. But then the Lord spoke to me after we lost our first and said you know what? Now your mother has her grandchildren.
Speaker 1:And for us and for people that are listening, that are watching, if you have aborted a child, if you have lost a child, this is the redemption. Those spirits go back to God and one day, if you are in Christ Jesus, you will be reunited back with those children and those children and you are going to have a great party in heaven one day. So the consolation I have is that, but I'm sure there's other people that might need consolation. What are some consolation stories? Maybe things God has shown you, stories you've heard of how people have come out the other side after going through Deeper Still and just finding redemption in it.
Speaker 3:Yes, as you were speaking, the first thing that came to my mind is that we have a team member that came years ago. She heard us give testimony at a church and she came forward and said hey, my mother has had an abortion. I would really love for her to go on a retreat, but I know she won't go. She will not go, she's she's very shy, she's withdrawn and this is very shameful. She just won't go. Would I be able to come and and serve on your team as a team member? Because if I come as a team member, my mother will come to the retreat. So she and I went out to lunch, we talked, we shared um, thought that it was a good thing. She ended up coming. We got, she went through training, she came on that retreat and her mother came and it was.
Speaker 3:It was a very difficult retreat for her mother. Her mother had, you know, her mother just had a wall around about her. Her mother had a very difficult time opening up and, as a matter of fact, she had a very difficult time loving her own daughter. And so for our team member growing up, she, she wasn't very close to her mother, her mother. There was a disconnect between this mother and her daughter as a result of the abortion. So the mother went through the retreat and and the mother received so much healing and I want to say that, um, it did two things. So for our team member that serves, she was only planning to serve on one retreat for her mother and then the following retreat she was. She was just going to go off, she wasn't going to be part of the team anymore, but she fell in love with deeper still. She fell in love with the ministry. She fell in love with watching men and women get healed and so to this day she is four years later. She's still part of the team and she's not post-abortive.
Speaker 3:But she felt that what she did was change the DNA for her family, for her mother, for her sister and for her own daughters who are yet young and just entering into the world. Now Some of them are still teenagers in high school. So she changed the DNA for her family. She changed the DNA for her mom. Her mother is now set free. She's a different person. The relationship has connected. Her mother is more free, she's more interactive. There's a joy, there's a peace, and now she serves on a deeper still team in another state. She's served now for several years on another deeper still team.
Speaker 3:So that's the redemptive power of Jesus Christ. It changes the DNA for your family bloodline and it changes, it changes your life, it transforms you and that's what it's done even for my husband and my daughter and I. We're a family who's changed the bloodline for our children and our children, our children's children. It's hope, there is hope and there is redemption and it's it's, it's powerful, it's powerful and we've seen a number of different people that.
Speaker 3:So people will always ask me what is the recovery rate for deeper still? And I will say it depends on the person. It depends on. It's just like a child when a child is learning to walk or crawl or talk. Every child walks, talks at a different level, and it's the same with healing. Healing is a journey that never ends and healing is individual. It depends on how transparent you want to be. It depends on how deep you want to go. It depends on how much you want to allow Jesus to touch your heart.
Speaker 3:I have a team member right now who serves and when she first came to her deeper still retreat, she came through and she didn't receive anything a deep amount of healing that on her retreat that first time because she was processing. She was in so much trauma from the things that had happened to her that it took her at least a year before she processed and went through a deeper amount of healing. And she says that she calls herself a crock pot. She's not an Instapot Now she's healed and she's she's amazing. She's a powerful Instapot. Now she's healed and she's amazing. She's a powerful woman of God. But we all heal at different levels, but healing is there for whoever wants it, it's there.
Speaker 1:Well, speaking of that together or by themselves, you have a retreat coming up I'd like you to talk about, and then also just what you offer at Deeper Still for anybody that may be looking for help throughout this time.
Speaker 3:Yes, I just want to interject one thing, no-transcript. And she had a powerful experience, a powerful healing experience. I didn't realize how powerful it was until two weeks later I received a phone call from her husband and her husband called me and said whatever you did with her, she's a different person. I don't know who she is, but I want to come on your next retreat, can I come? And he came on the next retreat and I just want to say that, talking about healing and the power of transformation, those two are such a powerhouse. Their marriage has been healed, their parenting has been healed. They just celebrated another anniversary and I look at them and I just marvel what God did in their lives. This young couple, like their marriage, has been saved, transformed, changed, and it's just. It's incredible. It's just incredible what God has done. So I just wanted to interject that yes, we have these amazing opportunities for men and women.
Speaker 3:So, and marriages? Marriages are transformed, Relationships are transformed. It's powerful.
Speaker 1:So tell us about the retreat that's coming up that people can get involved in, and also, if you just need counseling or need help to be healed. How do they get ahold of Deeper Still?
Speaker 3:So we have a retreat coming up in about four weeks. It is April the 11th through the 13th. They can contact us through our website, deeperstillpittsburghorg. They can also reach us through the phone number 724-972-3431. We do have room on this retreat. It will be, I promise you. I promise you you'll feel safe, you'll feel secure. You'll feel safe, you'll feel secure. And one of the things that people say that I hear over and over again, the feedback is that you will never feel more loved in your entire life, and most of these people have never felt loved. So, yes, contact us. We've got room, we're open for you to come Give me a call and it's free correct Free, yes.
Speaker 3:How many people want?
Speaker 1:to know the price. You know. That's one thing I think is so amazing In the abortion industry they charge for everything. For us that's pro-life, whether you're contemplating abortion and you're trying to have one, and we intercept and we come in and help you out free. If you have an abortion you need Deeper, still free it and help you out free. If you have an abortion you need deeper still free. It's amazing that all the services are free. There's no money involved whatsoever. So I think that's awesome that you guys are doing that.
Speaker 3:Yes, there's absolutely no excuse not to come. It's free, so true, but the hardest thing is just getting past the fear of making that first step, of taking the phone call. But if you take that phone call, I will be the one on the other end of the phone answering and I will walk you through the love of Jesus. You will feel loved. I always tell my team members that when participants come to us, even if they walk away and they haven't received anything, but they know they've been loved, we know we've done our job because that's what we do for to extend the love of Jesus.
Speaker 2:That's so good. You know, the love of Jesus is powerful. It is powerful. You know, I love to hear, I enjoy hearing, about all the transformative stories, the transformative power of the Holy Spirit working in these people's lives. Just really quick, Pam. How would a woman know that she is free, Like when? Do you say, okay, she experienced on this path of freedom to get to freedom? How do you know, okay, she is free indeed, Like what are?
Speaker 3:some signs. Yeah, for me I see that they're free. When they get their boy voice back and they're not afraid to talk about it. That's a big indicator. When they're able to share their stories, when they, when they're able to connect, reconnect with loved ones that they've that there's been a disconnect with um. When they're able to worship the Psalm where King David says set my heart free that I can worship you. And when they're free, they can worship the Lord, and that's a key right there.
Speaker 3:When their heart is connected to the Lord and they're just freely able to worship the Lord. So those are just some things that I look at and know, hey, yeah, they're free, they're free.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amen. You know, who the sun sets free is free. Indeed. And, pam, there might be people that are watching right now that are either on one side, whether they're thinking about contemplating abortion, or whether they have made the choice already and now they they're living in condemnation, and or whether they have made the choice already and now they they're living in condemnation and they feel like they can't come out, they don't feel free to share and to make that phone call. Can you just take just a minute just to minister to those women that may be watching that are in either one of those two positions?
Speaker 3:Sure. So I would say to you, if you're listening today, that Jesus knows he has seen your heart, he's seen your tears, he has seen everything that you've gone through. He understands the regret, the deep regret. He understands your grief and he understands that the mistake that you've made, that you can't take back, and he still loves you and he still wants you to come to him because he has so much more for you. He wants to bring you into a place of just love and compassion.
Speaker 3:Jesus says that a bruised reed I will not bend, and when you're already bruised, you're already bent, you're already broken. The compassionate, gentle love of Jesus is what you need to bring you into a place of freedom and healing. And so I would just say don't be afraid, trust Jesus. He's gentle, jesus is so gentle and he's so kind and you know it's his kindness that leads us to repentance. And even though you may have forgiven, you received the forgiveness of the Lord on your life, but you can't forgive yourself. Jesus wants you to forgive yourself because he forgives you. And so just know that you're loved, know that you're accepted, know that you're enough, know that there's more healing for you and don't be afraid, just just make that call.
Speaker 1:So ladies and gentlemen, pam Irizarry, the executive director of Deeper Still Pittsburgh, we so appreciate you, pam, your vulnerability, your transparency, the work that you're doing, the lives you've impacted and will continue to impact. Thank you so very much for your time and for what you're doing and, as always, you know, we're always connected, so I'm sure we'll be seeing you on your road. Maybe we'll have you back down the line a little bit to talk about some more inner healing with other things besides abortion, because I know that's something that you're specializing in and we'd love to have you back in any time.
Speaker 3:I love you guys so much. Thank you for having me. It's great to see you.
Speaker 2:We love you and we believe the best is yet to come and thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you for all you do. You're amazing.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:That was good, it was really good, it was so good. Good stuff.
Speaker 2:I mean I took notes, I mean one of the things that I thought was really profound. She said the Lord reveals to heal, and I think that's why it is so important to make sure that you don't take the bait. Stay on the island that the enemy wants. He wants you all to yourself.
Speaker 2:He wants to plant those seeds. He doesn't want anyone to interrupt him. He wants to do what he wants to do with you, but God has a great plan for each and every one of our lives, and he wants us all to be free.
Speaker 1:You know it's amazing. As you're talking, I just thought about this. I'm going to read it just to make sure. I look at this year and if I'm not mistaken I pretty sure let's look here it says, or is it out here yeah, in Genesis four, in verse number eight. I was thinking the Lord really showed me that today about Cain and Abel and about how that was the seeds uh, fighting with one another. And it says now cain and genesis, chapter 4, verse 8 now cain talked with abel, his brother, and it came to pass when they were in the field. So he took him out alone. He isolated him by himself and that's when he rose up and killed him because nobody could see. So the devil does his best work when you're alone, but nobody can see and listen.
Speaker 1:If the devil now watch this, if the devil could get a third of the angels in heaven Lucifer at the time that becomes Satan to join with him in the throne room of God Now it's not like they were away from God, they were in the throne room with God worshiping. A third of them said Lucifer said yo, we got this guy, we can take him. And they joined with him. How do you think you're going to do against Lucifer, satan? Now, how do you think? The deceiver of the ages, jesus, called him the father of lies. If you've ever met somebody, that's a really good liar. They can tell you a lie so well that you really believe them, unless you have discernment. So if he could get away with that in the throne of God with those angels and a third of them became demons because they sided with him how do you think you're going to do against him? You will never, ever make it, and that's the reason why Jesus left the ninety and nine and he went after the one, because the devil always isolates, so then he can annihilate.
Speaker 1:So if you are alone, know that, even as Pam mentioned, as my wife mentioned, as I'm mentioning, jesus loves you. He's with you. He's got a great plan for you. He knew before the foundations of the world you were going to make the decisions that you made. He's not angry with you. He's going to love you back to life and he loves you even through death. He loves you in spite of all. He loved you so much that he paid a price. He didn't know, because you owed a price you couldn't pay and I just realized that's what the devil wants to do. It doesn't matter, even if it's not an abortion in any area of our lives. He wants to get you alone, get you isolated, so then he can manipulate.
Speaker 1:Think about even a relationship. If you've ever known someone that was in a relationship. What do they do? If they have somebody that's close to their family, they take them away from the family, get them over there and they start talking to them why they play on their mind. They play on their emotions. They manipulate them to eventually their mind conforms to what they want. And that's the funny thing about it. Whether it's pro-choice, whatever it is, they always want to manipulate the way you think. They don't want to give people the freedom to think the way they should, but God wants to set you free and our minds can be free. In Jesus name.
Speaker 2:Amen, and I loved how you said it's not just with abortion or anything like that it's in any area of your life.
Speaker 2:The enemy wants to keep you trapped. He wants to keep you bound. He doesn't want you to get free because if you get free now, you're about to annihilate him and his plans for your life. And one of the things I thought that Pam said that was so good she mentioned about the generational effect, and that's another thing. The enemy doesn't want you to be set free because, as a result, you're going to have an effect and an influence on your family and your generations to come. I always say it's a deposit, it's a shift in eternity actually.
Speaker 1:That's right. So we want to pray right now and just ask God just to bring healing to those of you that are listening right now. Just feel the presence of the Lord. This is going to minister to your life and just bring healing. So, father, god, we just pray for every person that's listening, that's watching, lord.
Speaker 1:There's some that are riding down the street in their car, on the highway. There's some that may be sitting in front of a laptop, some watching it on their iPhone. Wherever they are, holy Spirit, we thank you. There's no time or distance in the anointing. You are now ministering and setting them free, father. Above all, may they experience the overwhelming, overarching love of Jesus Christ in their lives. May they feel the love of the Father around about them.
Speaker 1:Father, your word says there's no condemnation. So, father, we thank you that if we are in you, there's no condemnation. There may be those listening right now, father, that need to know you. May they receive you in their hearts. And if you're listening right now and you need to receive Jesus, just say Dear Heavenly Father, I thank you today for sending your Son for me to have eternal life. I believe you came, you died, you were buried and rose again, that I might have eternal life.
Speaker 1:Lord Jesus, I thank you. I'm forgiven. You are my savior. Father, you are now in my heart. I receive you now in Jesus' name. And, father, I thank you for every person right now that you're bringing healing, deliverance, that you're setting the captive free in the name of Jesus, that they will never, ever be the same. And, lord, I pray for those that are listening, that need to get involved in Deeper Still, that need to get involved in church, that need to go to this retreat, that you would put it on their hearts that, as they go, they will have the courage to take that first step, to make that phone call, to sign up and then to go and find their freedom and find their healing. And, father, we thank you and we give you the praise, the honor and all the glory for your healing virtue that's flowing right now. In Jesus name, we pray Amen, amen. Amen.
Speaker 2:Thank you for praying. You know it's such a sweet moment here. You know you can feel the presence of God even as she was speaking. You can feel the presence of God. You can feel the healing power of God go out. You know, and I just want to let all of you know. First of all, if you are in that situation, please feel free to reach out to us. We would love to pray with you, we'd love to help you navigate and if you need to make that connection I know there was some information there, but if you need to make that connection with Deeper Still, we would love to do that Know that we are praying for you and we believe that freedom, if you want freedom, it is available for you to walk in all the days of your life.
Speaker 1:Amen, and our phone number and our ministry is 412-586-7159. That's another level of ministries, 412-586-7159. And if you're a person that's listening or watching, or you know someone that's contemplating an abortion or having an abortion, they can call the center as well. What's the number there?
Speaker 2:They can. It's 412-956-5433 or 412-956-LIFE.
Speaker 1:Life. I love that. I love that. I love that. So, no matter where you are, we've got something for you. That's what's so awesome about dimensions. We there are levels to this. We go from glory to glory, even by the spirit of the lord.
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Speaker 2:No, just don't miss it. Make sure also that you just don't show up, that you spread the wealth and that you invite others to watch as well.
Speaker 1:At least weekly. Next Thursday 8 pm, We'll be back here. Enjoy your week. God bless you. We love you and we'll see you next time right here on Dimensions. Thank you.
