Dimensions
Join J. Anthony and Tiffany Gilbert as they discuss current events and give biblical commentary to help educate, encourage, and elevate your faith.
Dimensions
How Christian's Money Has Been Weaponized Against Them
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Economist Jerry Boyer unpacks the biblical foundation of economics and reveals how Christian investors can reclaim their voice in the marketplace. We explore God's original economic design in Eden and how tariffs contradict God's plan for mutually beneficial global exchange.
• The Bible has economic dimensions that are often overlooked or flattened
• God created an economic system from the beginning with rivers flowing resources throughout Eden
• Christian money is being weaponized against Christian values through uninformed shareholder voting
• The "anointing track" and "business track" must work together for kingdom impact
• Confrontations about wealth in Scripture were about theft, not honest prosperity
• Tariffs disrupt God's design for nations to complement rather than compete with each other
• Christians can become change agents by investing strategically rather than just divesting
• Most Christian shareholders unknowingly vote in favor of policies they oppose
• The gates of hell are defensive - we're on offense when we engage economically
Consider how your investments may be voting against your values, and explore ways to align your economic choices with biblical principles. Together we can become the adult supervision in companies that have lost their way.
Welcome, welcome, welcome everybody to another episode of Dimensions. We are so glad to be with you once again. I am so excited because we have got a phenomenal half hour to an hour podcast ready for folks today.
Speaker 2:We do. I'm so excited about this guest today. I have so many questions. I'm ready to put my learning cap on and ready to receive all that he has to give today.
Speaker 1:Well, what you know about dimensions, ladies and gentlemen, is this is that there's levels to this. So we're not just coming at you from the spiritual aspect, we're going to come at you today from an economical aspect that is going to be outstanding. This is a personal friend of ours we're going to introduce in a minute, but he is phenomenal. I remember we had him on Cornerstone back during the Trump. Trump was a Trump versus Clinton about number one and we thought, for certain, he was on there with Don Black, and I remember being in the studio back in 2016, actually 2015.
Speaker 1:We both were there. We were both there, yep, and we thought for sure that Trump ain't going to win this thing Right, ain't no way he's going to get smoked. And next thing, you know, we were talking and Jerry was on there and he was working his magic and talking about the different point scale and the electoral votes. Next thing, we're like this thing is swinging in Trump's direction. So we were there, live with him, and he's just a phenomenal guy and honored to be able to know him. I've been on him with him several times on Cornerstone as well.
Speaker 1:But getting into the economy is something that everybody wants to know about, thing that everybody wants to know about. And we've titled today's podcast about how Christians money is being. Do Christians understand how their money is being weaponized against them? And then also we've heard a lot about with President Trump talking about this terrorist thing. Well, listen, you're going to want to stay tuned because what he's about to share may actually rock your boat. If you're a Trump fan, it's going to rock your boat. If you're not a Trump fan, you may say, yeah, I knew it. So it's going to be really good. And but you know, this is why I would tell people all the time. Whether you like Trump or not, whether you like Biden or not, whether you like Clinton or not, doesn't matter who they are your president for four years.
Speaker 1:The Bible says that we ought to pray for them. So it's very, very important that we take the time to pray and to intercede. You know, the Bible says that we will lead quiet and peaceful lives if we intercede for those that are in authority. So if you have an employer or a boss, a manager, supervisor, that you don't like, first thing you need to understand is that all authority comes from God, so every single one of them were placed there by the hand of God. The Bible makes it very clear that they are ordained by God and placed there by God, and that the authorities that are ordained exist because of God.
Speaker 1:You can read that in Romans 13. So it doesn't matter what authority is there. They are God's person for that hour. Now, what we have to do is align ourselves and ask ourselves God first of all, how do I pray for them? And then, number two the next thing you need to do is ask the Lord, even though you may or may not like the leader, what is God requiring of you in that season, because all things work together for the good of them that love the Lord and to them that are called according to His purpose. So it's important. One of the things I've learned, babe, is that in every circumstance in my life, whether good, bad, up or down.
Speaker 2:I always ask the Lord what is your mind, what is your will? Concerning that, I love the fact that you brought up Romans 8, 28. You know, that's such a great scripture, even in the midst of the ups and downs, and even some of the stuff that we're going to talk about tonight, some of the stuff that may surprise you, some of the stuff that you're thinking oh, I knew that and some of the things that you didn't know. God is always in control, no matter what he is in control, and he's truly a God that, when you serve him, if you're called according to his purpose, if you love him, all things will work out for the good.
Speaker 1:So, as we get ready to bring our guest on, I want you to be praying Lord, give me your mind. Yeah, in every circumstance, we need to get as much education as possible, and that's why I'm so honored. We are so honored and pleased and we are privileged and I want you to consider yourself privileged that this next man of God took time out of his schedule to come and educate all of us on what's going on in our economy. And we're talking about how Christians, money could be weaponized against them and tariffs. But who knows what else we're going to get into along the way against them and tariffs. But who knows what else we're going to get into along the way. But we want to bring to this platform right now our buddy, the economist, the one and only Jerry Boyer. If he's on there, come on, bring him up right now.
Speaker 3:Thank, you so much, jerry. It's great to have you man, honored to be here, wonderful to be with you again.
Speaker 1:Well, you know what? You have always been such a blessing to us. You've come on Cornerstone with us several times for many years. To be honest with you I'm going to throw this out there I think Cornerstone doesn't use you enough, so I want to advocate for them to use you more. Not that they've done anything wrong or they won't. Just I just think you have so much and you know, a lot of times on Christian television it can be just so focused on spiritual things and so we look at, like you know, teaching the Bible and not not that all that's bad, but having somebody with your biblical background helping us to understand the economy and politics and what's happening. So think about it. What I just mentioned, jerry, about prayer, you know we're talking about. We got to pray for people.
Speaker 3:Some people don't even know how to pray because not even aware of what's going on, yeah, yeah, so I mean your show's dimensions, right, and I think that's really important, because the Bible has many dimensions. And I think that somehow in theology world or maybe church world, but some, some parts of church world get it and some parts don't. Okay, you get the idea that the Bible has only one dimension, and that dimension is sort of religious doctrine. So it doesn't have a political dimension, it doesn't have a psychological dimension, it doesn't have an economic or financial dimension. It's just about personal salvation or just about certain doctrines and we can argue about those right. So where we can argue about doctrine, but you know, anyone who has kids or grandkids probably has had the experience of a pop-up book. Yeah, you open it up and it comes up Right, and the Bible's like that. If you have eyes to see, when you open it, it comes up to all the dimensions of human life, and so it is the best book of theology, but it's also the best book of psychology and it's also the best book of politics and it's also the best book of economics and finance.
Speaker 3:We're just not used to reading it that way, because something about us wants to flatten it again, when it starts to get into areas that we kind of don't think Jesus should be talking about, there's a tendency to just kind of grab it and push it back down and say, hey, jesus, just stick to religion. But he's the Lord, we're not the Lord. So we don't get to tell him which topics he can talk about. And he talks about economics all the time. I mean it's a very frequent about. And he talks about economics all the time he is. I mean it's one, it's a very frequent topic, and I don't just mean about money. I think people already know that he probably talks about money more than he talks about any other topic.
Speaker 3:He's talking about economics as well, and we don't quite see that because we're not aware of the economics of his day. I know this isn't the assigned topic, but I'm just sensing that we can go here.
Speaker 1:Yes, we can.
Speaker 3:Look. So let's say, 2000 years from now, somebody is reading a story about a rabbi who's going around America and having conversations with people. And let's say he goes to Pittsburgh, and because we're in Pittsburgh and he meets somebody who's carrying a lunch bucket, and he starts to talk to that person about being stronger than steel, all right, now someone's reading that 2000 years from now, they won't get what that's really about. They won't understand that he's in Pittsburgh and this is a steel town and you know that that's. That's a dimension of what he's talking about. Or in this story, let's say this rabbi goes to, goes to New York, to Wall Street, and he talks about investing in the kingdom. Well, we would know, hey, wall Street, that's the center of finance in the world, right? Or Silicon Valley.
Speaker 3:Well, when Jesus is walking around in the gospels, he's going to places and those places have economies. Bethsaida has an economy, capernaum has an economy, bethany has an economy, jerusalem has an economy, tiberius has an economy, so does Syrophoenicia. And so when Jesus is there and he's talking about economic matters, if you put him in his context, you find out that he's really speaking in profound ways about economics and we've sort of silenced him on that to try to basically tell him to stick to what we're comfortable with him talking about, which is just personal salvation. So I think when we open up that pop-up book, we see that Jesus is dealing with every dimension of life, including the economic dimension of life.
Speaker 1:Well, real quickly, because you mentioned that about the whole economy how should a Christian read their Bible? In regards to economy, if you're looking at the New Testament, how would we? What is a good way, maybe some parameters of how we can digest what Jesus' economy of the day that we could better understand it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I think number one start with the awareness that he is. In other words, don't limit him to his assigned homework from us. Like theologians can give Jesus an assigned topic. Don't talk about anything else. So just realize he's Lord, so he cares about everything we care about. He cares about us, so he cares about everything we care about. I care about the economy. I assume you too care about the economy.
Speaker 3:Of course You're on your show You've got members of your church. I bet they care about the economy, so God does too. I think the other thing is just a little historical background. Like a lot of people don't understand that up there in Galilee, where Jesus was from, it was kind of low tax, high economic growth, very entrepreneurial, a lot of small businesses, a lot of entrepreneurial businesses. And we picked that up a little bit when he's with Capernaum, when he's summoning fishermen and these aren't just I grew up with like guys who would just fish for food, right, they would just like supplement their plate. But that's not what these guys were. They were professional fishermen. They would fish to sell. They had a fishery business. So he's talking to entrepreneurial people, small business people. There was a lot of economic activity there.
Speaker 3:But see down in Judea, when you get close to the temple in Jerusalem, you have a different economy. That's in the capital region High taxes, like a lot of hierarchy, like a political power centralized in the top and everybody basically taking wetting their beak on everybody below. So up in the north, most economic activity is people producing goods and services. Like in Nazareth. They're growing olives and crushing them in olive oil. They're doing something productive, is my point right. They're building the stone where. So in Cana there's a story of the stone jars. Well, that's a stone jar factory thing going on up there. They actually had industrial stone jar making. They're doing useful things, like I said, catching fish and fermenting those fish and that becomes a guar sauce which is sold all around the empire. Wouldn't be my taste, fermented fish, but it was very popular in the Mediterranean in the first century and they're selling it all over the place. So they're entrepreneurial, they're creating goods and services.
Speaker 3:But when you go, as soon as Jesus goes down into the Judean region, first thing he runs into is the rich young ruler, an archon, a senator, and then he has a confrontation with that senator over wealth. You go the whole gospels when Jesus is in the north not a single confrontation with anybody about wealth. There's rich people in the vicinity of Nazareth. Nazareth was close to Sepphoris. There's a mansion there that archaeologists have found. There were wealthy people there, but they got it honestly. They were producing things of value, like I said, olive oil, they were doing that and fish and fish hooks and lots of other things, and then they were selling those things of value in an open marketplace. And Jesus has no confrontations there. He's not telling his neighbors who are business owners to sell all they have and give to the poor. It's when he gets down to the rich young ruler who took it using the power of government, jesus says to him give it away, because he's not really giving it away, he's giving it back.
Speaker 3:It's not redistribution, it's restitution. He has lived off of the sweat of other people. Jerusalem had an open slave market, for example. Jerusalem was a corrupt city and it was living off the sweat of other people through overt slavery or from similar forms of economic exploitation. And so all the confrontations that Jesus is having about money and wealth all happened down in the South. They're all happening in the Jerusalem area and people say, oh, that means Jesus doesn't like money, he's like no, that means Jesus doesn't like theft. But up in the North he doesn't have any problem with money.
Speaker 3:He was close friends with Joseph of Arimathea, right, and Joseph, you know, helps with his burial expenses. Well, how did Joseph make his money? He was a tin merchant. He made an honest living, right, joseph, would you know he had a company that would mine tin, it would refine tin and it would sell it and trade it and trade it all around the, you know, around that whole region. So Jesus doesn't have problems with people who make money honestly, even if they end up making a lot. He has trouble with people who take money from other people using power, usually political power or religious manipulation. Rich, young, ruler, zacchaeus, the tax collector and the money changers all have one thing in common they're using power to take other people, to take wealth from productive people. They're extracting via force the productive labors of other people. None of them are entrepreneurs. And Jesus from an entrepreneurial background, a builder basically because a tecton, he's more than just a carpenter. They were very skilled builders and an entrepreneurial background.
Speaker 2:He doesn't have a problem with people like that he has a problem with the people who rip them off. Wow, that is so good, Jerry. I have to say that now I haven't I don't think I've ever met Jerry, right I don't think I've, maybe on the night of the election back in 16. Yeah, no-transcript, it pops up from there.
Speaker 2:You know, I want to ask this because there's going to be people that are. There's people that are watching that they love God, they love the word of God, but they're thinking why should I be concerned about economics? Why is that so important? What would you share with them? You know, even as we're going, we're going deeper in this, so what would you share with them with regards to why it's so?
Speaker 1:especially as Christians.
Speaker 2:As Christians because you know we go to church on Sunday and Wednesdays. You know we know how to praise God, we know how to worship God, but then when we talk about economics, it's like people, I think, think they're in, they're going towards the political realm yeah you know they don't want to touch that political and financial they don't want to mess with.
Speaker 1:So why? And?
Speaker 2:financial they don't want to mess with it, and financial they don't want to mess with. So why is it important for us, as Christians, to think about the economic sector of things as being important as well?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I think the fact that we're scared of it is probably an indicator of how important it is. Yeah, right, so if we're afraid of thinking about what God thinks about something, if we're afraid of asking the question, what does God teach about this? What does God think about it? Whose voice tells you not? Whose voice tells you to leave God out of certain things?
Speaker 1:Satan.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:That's, that's the fear he uses Satan.
Speaker 3:That's right. That's the fear he uses. So here's the question why has he expended so much of his limited abilities? Because he's a limited being like us. He's not like God. He's not infinite. God's infinite. Satan's got a lot more bandwidth than we do, but he's not infinite. He has to make decisions about what's important to him, just like we make decisions about what's important to us.
Speaker 3:Why does he expend so much energy trying to get Christians not to think about things like economics and politics? Maybe because it would really do him a lot of damage if we did, if we were willing to go there, if we were willing to think. Now, what does go there mean? Often, what go there means is we take our politics and our economics and we drag it into church and start a fight. So that's not thinking about politics. That's just another version of us telling God what to think. So when we tell the church what to think, we're kind of telling the church. We're kind of telling God what to think, aren't we? But if we let God speak for himself, I think, then you know that's not dangerous to us, it's dangerous to the evil one. So I would just I always start with Genesis, right, doesn't that make?
Speaker 2:sense, that's right.
Speaker 3:Everything comes from Genesis. I mean, that's where God creates the world. So what we see in Genesis is what is God doing? He is making, he's creating, he's making and he's doing right. Different Hebrew words for that right Barah is to create, melechto is to work, asah is to do. So he's making, he's working right. And what's he doing? Well, he comes in and he makes light. And then he says I'm done, it's good, I'm done. No, he doesn't. He makes light, but he doesn't stop. He's not done yet. Light's pretty good, but he's not satisfied. He wants to improve things. So then he separates the waters above from the waters below, and then he separates the dry land from the water. So you see what he's doing. Every day he starts over and says, not at the end of the day, he says good, but implicitly. The next day he says but not good enough, because if we're good enough, we wouldn't have another day of creation.
Speaker 3:Every day every first day is it's good, next day but not good enough. And then he does more. Right, it's good. You know, god saw that it was good. Next day he's still changing it. So it's probably so it's good. You know, by Ariadne Lutine God saw that it was good. Next day he's still changing it. So it's not good enough. So what's he doing? Well, first thing he does. What's the first thing I do? What do you do? First, when you work during the day, you turn on the lights, right? Well, so does God.
Speaker 3:First thing he does in creation is he turns on the lights and then he starts organizing things, he starts separating things. So you have all this I of Dale. He separates the day from the night, he separates the waters above from the waters below, creating the firmament. He separates the waters from the dry land. Right, because he said the earth is formless and void and it's dark. So he's fixing those problems. It's formless, it's disorganized, it's void, it's dark. So he's fixing those problems. It's formless, it's disorganized, it's void, it's empty and it's dark. Okay, fix the darkness, turn on the light, fix the disorganized by separating things and organizing them, creating shelving for the world. Well, what's the other problem? Well, it's empty. Right, the earth is formless, and void means it's disorganized and empty. Well, then he starts filling it with things, and that's what we do.
Speaker 3:That's economics. Whether you're Yahweh Elohim, god of the universe, or whether you're a janitor, god is doing it from a place of infinity. But when I was in high school, or just out of high school, I was a janitor and that's why I turned on the light and I went in and I started separating waters, right, and some of the water goes into the bucket and some of the water doesn't go into the bucket, and then I'm cleaning things up and then I fill things up. And that's how. That's what economics is. It's taking things, the physical world, that's at one state of value, evaluating it and then making it better, every day making it better, and that's called exercising dominion, and that's what we do. And so it says God made man in his, in his image. Male and female created he them right. So we're in his image, which means we were like him. But up until then, what have we seen God do? We've seen God working. So what does it mean to be in God's image? I mean anyone just reading all their theology and.
Speaker 3:I'm all for theology, but if they were just reading this for the first time, god is working and building and creating and improving and separating and organizing, and then he makes somebody like him. So what would they do? Well, they would make and they'd build, and they'd create and they'd organize and they would fill, because that's what father does and so that's what we're made to do, and people just get that in their bones. Human beings are made that way and we're ambitious.
Speaker 3:And what we can do is if Christians say, no, don't do that, your ambition is only religion, say, no, don't do that, your ambition is only religion. The only place that matters is church, as opposed to churches like the garden, where you learn and spend time with father and then you go out and fill the earth and subdue it. So church is the recharging place. Right, then you see, the economics just flows out of worship, and if you don't have worship, the economics will get messed up. But if you don't have economics, the worship will get messed up too. Right, because then you're like always in, like religious zeal, but you never do anything with it. Right, then you kind of get burned out because it doesn't go anywhere. But it's supposed to go somewhere. It's supposed to, just like the rivers came out of the Garden of Eden, right, just all supposed to flow out into the world. So I say that we Christians should think about economics, because if you read Genesis 1, we see the model for economics God, the maker, the builder, the worker.
Speaker 1:You know it's amazing, Jerry. You know, as I was reading I was kind of opening up my Bible here because you got my mind going here. And in Genesis 2, you know, when you talked about the different rivers, it's amazing that God installed an economy in the Garden of Eden and it talked about how. In Genesis 2, 11, the name of the first is, I think it's Pashon it is one which skirts the whole land of Havilah where there is gold and the gold of the land is good Bedelium and the onyx stones are there. So out of those rivers is flowing an economy that got.
Speaker 1:And it's amazing, after God established that, then he put man in the garden and commanded him to work, and so it's kind of funny, he put economy and work hand in hand and how the two works. As a matter of fact, I have a friend of mine, Jerry, that says in every ministry he said it runs on two work. As a matter of fact, I have a friend of mine, Jerry, that says in every ministry he said it runs on two tracks, there's the anointing track and there's the business track, and how you have to be able to manage both to be successful. And going back to your point of why we mentioned this, Jerry, why we're so glad that you're on here is a lot of times the church is only focused on the anointing track. Right, the anointing is going to cure all of the economic stuff. Now it can aid in it, but I don't think people understand that you have to be able to manage both and understand both, have wisdom in both and when the two go together, as you mentioned, that gives you the totality of what God originally stated.
Speaker 1:What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3:Like in Genesis, the anointing track and the business track. So what do you have in Genesis? You have the land of Eden and the garden of Eden and we don't necessarily read it carefully enough to see that. So in the garden of Eden is the anointing track, that's the presence of God. When God comes into the garden, they hear the sound of him. You know, sometimes it's said, the voice of him walking. I think it's the Shekinah, I don't think it's, you know, kind of like an old man humming.
Speaker 2:I agree with you on that.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think the Hebrew pretty strongly. It's like a glory cloud that terrifies them. It's like lightning and trumpets and things right. So it's halaking, it's going All right, so that's the anointing track. But then what do they do? They go into the land.
Speaker 3:So what it says is that God didn't allow the plants to completely sprout up to Samach yet because there was not yet a man to work the ground. So God doesn't even allow the plants to quite mature yet because he needs a man to work the ground, to irrigate, basically. And then it says but a mist went up from the ground and that watered the plants, right. So this is a watering problem, right, there's, there's a problem with, there's a? Um, a problem with hydraulics. Here there's a, there's an irrigation problem. We've got it's and we're not used to thinking of this practically. But you don't have anybody to irrigate, you don't have anybody with a hoe, and so god, basically temporary, we're going to send mist until the man gets here, right. And then, right after that, the story switches over and you hear about the rivers. Why does the Bible suddenly talk about rivers?
Speaker 3:It's like you know there's a story about man and whether man doesn't exist yet. And then you have like this little book, like the rivers of Eden, you know, like a little travel book of the rivers of Eden, and people think of that as like a distraction or something brought in from outside. No, it's perfectly in line, because then he makes man. And what's man supposed to do? Well, we already were told he's supposed to irrigate the garden. So God is saying here's my, here's my take on this text. God is saying Adam, I'm going to show you irrigation, I'm going to show you how to water a world. And so God creates these rivers and then. So then it's like okay, adam, you're like father, you're going to create little rivers too. See, I've got this garden here, but I don't have anyone to work it yet, and so I'm sending, I'm just misting it for now, but I want it to really grow, adam, and I just showed you how I make the world grow with these rivers. You're going to create little rivers of your own. So it's it's. This is very practical.
Speaker 3:The father is teaching the son because it says in Luke's genealogy that Adam is the son of God. That's different than the way Jesus is the son. Jesus is the eternal son, but father is teaching son how to garden. You know, when we moved into this house, my sons and daughters, we went out and we planted trees together. I taught them how to do that, and so that's the economics that's going on and that's the business track. But I think every Saturday then they're supposed to go back to the garden, right, and then in the garden they meet with God and he recharges them and then sends back them out in the world and says look, I'm God, I made a garden. Now you go make a garden. I told you how. I've taught you how. Now you go turn this whole world into a garden city.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, Jerry, I could stay there and I don't want to burn up everything on that. That's what I knew.
Speaker 2:I thought I told you, we could have Jerry here every day and never exhaust.
Speaker 3:This is so you get tired of me eventually, but twenty eight minutes, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Jerry, I'm sitting here. I feel like I'm going to. I mean, this is, I'm taking notes. Yeah this is so good everybody. This is so good everybody. This is so good it really is.
Speaker 1:And while I'd like to park there, jerry, I know there's some things we wanted to get into, but I'm glad we kind of set this up, talking about why Christians don't understand the economy, and I would love to talk more about the business and the kingdom business, but the business track and the anointing track. How you talk about the land of Eden, the garden of Eden. I've never heard that before but I don't have time to park there. I want to get into about how christian's money may be weapon.
Speaker 3:Can we do the tariff thing first? You want, let's do it yeah, because it actually flows really well from what we're talking let's do that. Tariffs good or bad so what you read bad, okay, so that's, that's my one word answer no toes not good.
Speaker 1:No toes.
Speaker 3:Not good for the man to be alone, including not good for us to be isolated from the world. I mean, that's about man should have a wife, right? But it's also just a principle of human life that we need each other. And so you just read that passage about the land of Havilah yeah, gold is good, and bdellium and onyx stone. And so why are we told that? I mean, is it just like oh, that's interesting. On the ground there's gold and bdellium. No, you're supposed to do something with it. You're supposed to get it out of the ground and make it into something. And then what? Just keep it all for yourself? No, you're supposed to send it to other people to trade with them. That's why there's rivers going in four directions. That is God providentially saying, wow, these tribes move down the river. So you, adam and Eve, are in the garden and they're in the land of Eden. And what are they doing? They're kind of moving out.
Speaker 3:Their descendants are moving out, but they're trading on rivers, they're supposed to go out into the world and exchange with one another, and that can, and part of it is an offering. Like that, gold should partly just go to God in the garden as an offering, but it's also something we trade with one another. So God set up the world from the beginning, so he spread out certain things. So in the garden there's fruit right, there's fruit. In the garden there's fruit trees. What else is there? I won't get into the details, just take my word for it on this. There's cattle in the garden and maybe I'll get into it another time. But if you read really carefully, you'll know that there's actually cattle in the garden beforehand. So I know, if you ask me about it, I'll talk about it. But otherwise I want to try. We can get really bogged down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, listen, I would love to keep going into it but I want to make sure you get to all this. But I'm guessing you're talking about probably where Adam brought the animals to him to name them right?
Speaker 3:Yes, and what animal does God not bring to Adam to name? What does he not bring? I don't know the cattle. What does he not bring? I don't know the cattle Wow, because they're already there. See, all of the animals that Adam does name the cattle in Hebrew it's behemoth. He names them, but God didn't bring them to him.
Speaker 1:Behemoth. Is that where we get the word behemoth?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it is Behemoth.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Behemoth, right, but in Hebrew it's behemoth, just like big, domesticated animal. So those are the animals that are in the temple sacrificial system. So Adam names the wild animals, he names birds, he names cattle, but God doesn't bring him cattle. It has to be that cattle are already there. You see, it's a garden, it's a little bit like a garden, it's a little bit like a ranch. So there's cattle there, which means there's milk and there's yogurt and there's cheese and there's fruit and there's olives and there's nuts. So that that's there, right, and that should be going out to the whole world.
Speaker 3:But nothing is said about gold being in the garden. So if you want gold stuff in the garden, you got to get that from Havilah, right? If you want bdellium and onyx stone, you've got to get that from Havilah. So someone's got to go downstream, learn how to do gold, learn how to do onyx, learn how to do bdellium, and then send that back up the river, maybe in exchange for food from the garden, because the garden seems to have a lot of food, right. And then Adam is like gardening outside the Samach. Those are herbs, there's herbs in the land. So there are herbs that you can't grow here in Pittsburgh. I can grow sage, but there's certain things that I can't grow Like. There's herbs that require, you know, really high temperature, and I can't grow those here. So if I want turmeric, I got to get it from someplace else.
Speaker 3:I got to get it from someplace further south. So God has spread out his gifts over the whole world. And if we decide that, we're going to fight that by taxing exchange from other parts of the world, which is what tariffs are doing, tariffs basically say just make it all here, and if you can't make it here then we don't want it, and if you can't make it here, then we don't want it, whereas free exchange says no, we've got a lot of great coal here in this part of the world, we've got a lot of great steel here, but we don't have a lot of turmeric.
Speaker 1:Hey Jerry, real quick, you just said something. Is that why President Trump is that's his purpose behind the tariffs? Is so then, everything is made in America?
Speaker 3:He's trying to get more things made in America because he sees he what he the way he thinks of it is, if we buy something from overseas, that that somehow that's a loss to us. Like he thinks that if we're that when we buy things our money's going to them and so they're ripping us off, but if our money's going to them and things are coming to us from overseas, I don't know how to get diamonds in America. You can get diamonds from overseas, right, some people are really good at making wine in America, california, so there's all sorts of things around the world that different people are good at making different things and so we exchange with one another. And the idea of protectionism, which is what tariffs are, is basically we should pretty much make everything here, and I don't think that's God's plan for us, because I think he loves all people of the world and he's spread out his gifts.
Speaker 3:Now I understand it can be hard, like in Pittsburgh, for example, in the 1980s, where Pittsburgh people, pittsburgh, had trouble competing, say, with Japan over steel, and so the idea is well, we're going to protect us from competition, we're going to make it so it's impossible or very difficult to buy steel from from japan. I think that's misunderstanding. I think the reason we had trouble competing wasn't because we didn't have protection, but because our own government. The taxes were too high, the regulations were too high. It was really impossible to be competitive because americans are very talented and very hard working we. We don't need to be protected, right, we don't need our government to protect us. We just need our government to stop hurting us.
Speaker 1:I think the trade is a beautiful word.
Speaker 3:I don't think the tariff is a beautiful word and I think maybe the president this week has figured that out because he's been pulling back on these tariffs. He's seen how investors are afraid and so when President Trump got elected by the way, I'm not going to be always with Trump or always against him. I mean, that's a Jesus.
Speaker 2:I'm with you. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:Jesus is the only one who gets to say you're either with me or against me. So when I'm as an economist, I'm an umpire, and when the president, when President Trump, throws a strike, I'll say a strike, and when he throws a ball, that's way out of line, I'm going to call a ball, all right. So a lot of his, a lot of the stuff he's been doing on gender, has been strike right there in the yeah, amen to that Right and a lot of sanctity of life right there in the strength and just traditional, like lower taxes, lower regulation pro energy right there in the strike zone and just traditional, like lower taxes, lower regulation, pro-energy right there in the strike zone, but hurting other nations and trying to stop trade.
Speaker 3:And just every day a different announcement about another tariff and a trade war, and confusion.
Speaker 3:God is not the author of confusion, and I'm going to have to call a ball on that one. As much as I like the president and I'm pulling for him, president, and I'm pulling for him and I'm praying for him. Prayed for the previous president. My prayers weren't answered in that case, but that's all right. God gets to say no, I'm praying for this president, and a lot of my prayers have been answered, but not all of them. So I guess I'm not making anyone totally happy. And so here's the point.
Speaker 3:Tariffs are not the way to do it, because the fundamental plan for God that God made humanity is he's going to spread his gifts out over the whole world, and we should be productive and peaceably exchange with one another. And when we trade with somebody from another country, we both win. Not to stop thinking of that. We got to stop thinking of when we buy something from someone, someone in another country, that that was a loss. No, that's a win too, because then they turn around and buy from us, and so that's win-win. We've got to think win-win, because God is a God of abundance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, the thing I didn't really understand too, jerry, was that if he's going to be hiking, which is what we're seeing, actually he's hiking up tariffs. Well, they said well, we can do the same thing to you. It's almost like you know, to some degree it's like fourth, yeah, it's like almost like what the church does. Yeah, we're competing with one another instead of complimenting one another, and is that what you're saying? The trade route ought to be that we compliment one another, uh, versus trying to hurt one another or just be mutually exclusive to ourselves that's exactly what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Churches really shouldn't be competing with one another, they should be blessing one another, and so should nations. And here's the thing. So let's say that we punish a nation. So let's say we say, all right, we're going to make it really hard to buy iPhones from China. Okay, now, china is a special case because they're kind of a geopolitical enemy, right? So I get that we have some problems with them that aren't just about economics. So maybe make it hard to buy computer chips from Taiwan. Taiwan's not an enemy, right? So we punish them.
Speaker 3:But what do they do? I mean, they're not just inert, they punish us, they tariff stuff from us. So what do they do? They import a lot of food. Guess what? In America we grow a lot of food, right? So maybe we put tariffs on the import of computers and they put tariffs on the import of soybeans, and so we think that we sided with Americans when we put a tariff to protect steel workers or protect, maybe, computer manufacturers here.
Speaker 3:But what we really did is help some Americans at the expense of other Americans, right? So we hurt farmers who are exporting to those countries. Or let's say we like it's really hard to say this here. But let's say, we tariff steel, that raises the price of steel. Well, OK, but in short, they make cars and they make them out of steel. So we help steel workers but we hurt auto workers. So we're choosing who to help and who to hurt, whereas I think we ought to just be like expanding the circle of who we're helping Right and not making those kinds of tradeoffs. I don't think we have to. I think God made us to be productive and we don't have to think that way.
Speaker 2:So you mentioned the word investors as you were talking, and when I think about economics, I think about investment, and I know I've talked to a lot of different people, whether it's family members or church members, about investing their money. Who should I invest my money in? You know what company, what company is good, what company is not good, and I know we were even talking about the whole Disney piece. You know a lot of people have invested their money in Disney. Now, jerry I don't know if my husband share it with you I had to take out of a couple of Disney movies. I had to actually take my kids out of the movie theater Right Right.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I mean honestly it probably wasn't that I mean.
Speaker 1:Well, I mentioned the movie. I don't think it's a problem at all to mention.
Speaker 2:It was. The one was the Buzz Lightyear movie. It was Buzz, I can't remember, and I was actually excited about seeing it because I said oh, you know, this is kind of like a remaker, you know of it.
Speaker 2:And then there was another one, which I can't remember the title, but both of those movies. It was interesting, jerry, because both of those movies, within maybe 10, I could be being really generous with this but maybe 10, 15 minutes into the movie there was same sex innuendo, same sex kissing. I mean, even right now there's another movie that's coming out, I think it's number three.
Speaker 2:It's that movie about their emotions and inside out, I don't know if you've, if you saw this, jerry, but the third one that's coming out, they're saying what they want to do is they want to take this little girl, this girl that's growing up. She was little and she's growing up, but now she's coming in and he she's, she's coming in tune with her emotions and her identity and who she believes, she is, and she may like someone of the same sex, and so on and so forth. So this is what it hasn't come out yet, but this is what they're saying. But I had to. Actually, you know, jerry, I was at a point where I wasn't ready to have these conversations with my young kids, but I was actually forced to, because they push that right in their face.
Speaker 2:And I said you know what, guys, we're going to leave. And of course they were like well, why, what's going on? Why do we have to leave? Mom, I'll tell you when we get in the car. And I kindly walked out and, um, or graciously walked out, went to the desk and I said can I have?
Speaker 2:I asked for my money back, you know, and said we can't see this movie. And surprisingly, I didn't get any pushback. They gave me my money back, but I had to go in in the car and really share with them. Hey guys, this is inappropriate, this is from the enemy. This is why we don't do this, and I think you know it's funny, jerry. I think even with investments and things like that, we don't know, like I didn't know that that was coming when I went in that movie. I didn't know that that's what we were going to watch, and I think on the same and I don't know if you would say the same thing even when we're investing our money, are there things that maybe Christians are investing their money in, in places where they're investing their money in that they are totally unaware of where their money is going.
Speaker 3:Right? I think that's true they are. So there's kind of two ways to go with that. One is I won't invest my money there because I'm profiting off of it or because I'm associating with sinful things. Or there's another way to take that, which is wait a minute, I've invested my money there, I'm an owner, I'm the adult supervision, you're the mom as a shareholder to Disney, not just to your girls at the Disney movie. I'm going to attend the next annual meeting as a shareholder which you can log on to, by the way and I'm going to speak my mind, because how did Disney get there? Disney is committing suicide. Disney is a very poorly performing company.
Speaker 3:By the way, their annual meeting was last week, just in the province of God. We're talking about it, so we logged on. Talking about it, so we logged on. We actually one of the things we do in our business is we help investors put proposals on the ballots of these companies. So they have an annual meeting every year, just like there's an election in America, right? You elect Congress, you elect president. Well, every year they have an election at all these companies. They elect the board of directors, they choose the auditor, and then they have these questions that are on the ballot. One of the questions that put to Disney is we want you to do a report about the risk of you getting involved in all this LGBTQ problem.
Speaker 3:You have a relationship with the human rights campaign. You participate in their corporate equality index. It's not really equality. Corporate equality index. You have a score of 100. How did you get a score of 100? You put sexually inappropriate content in children's movies and you pay for sexual transition treatments for the minor children of employees. So you're paying for puberty blockers for little boys who think for a moment be little boys.
Speaker 3:That's how you get a 100 from the human rights campaign. We want you, disney, to do a, to do an internal study, and we want you to come back and talk to us about the risks of these things. We want to know that you're taking the risk of this seriously. Okay, so that's steering the conversation. We had meetings with high level Disney executives. By the way, they were unteachable. They're stubborn. We've had a lot of meetings this year. We've had a lot of successes, but they do not want to acknowledge.
Speaker 3:One thing you can do is you can divest, but if you're invested, you can make a difference. So, but what I with? The worst outcome is if your money is weaponized against you. So that proposal that we, that some of our friends helped put forward, only got one percent support from the shareholders. Ninety nine percent voted against it. Now we know from the recent election, americans concerned about trans and children is something like 90%. Yeah. So why does something that gets 90% support, when we're in an election and we know what's it about, only gets 1% support? Because we have entrusted our money and our voice to people who are completely averse to our values. So anybody who, any Christian who owns Disney. I can just tell you there's a 99% probability that your money was voted to say keep it up, disney, great job. We don't care about trans treatments for kids, that's perfectly fine with us. Keep up with the same sex kisses A plus to you. That's how Christian's money was voted, and they didn't even know it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so deeply offensive to me.
Speaker 1:Jerry, how do we, how do we know where our money's going? I mean, what are the ways that we can get educated? Is it just getting around people like you? Is it books we need to read? Is it something that's on the news? I mean, how did you come across this type of information?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really hard, it's like super detailed, so we spend like this is almost my full time now is reading these proposals. It's really hard for an ordinary investor to do it. But if you have a financial planner or a financial advisor, talk to them about it and let me tell you what they're going to say. They're going to say they don't know and they're not going to want to talk about it because they don't know. And financial professionals don't like to tell their clients that they don't know about something that's important and they like to pretend that they know everything. But if you do that, I'll take a call or they can reach out to me from a financial advisor or a financial planner and I'll help them get their Christian clients' money voting. It's not where their money's going, it's how their money's voting. That matters to me.
Speaker 3:I've got no problem if somebody's invested in Disney. I mean, I'm not going to shame somebody if they're invested in these companies. Mean, I'm not going to shame somebody if they're invested in these companies. But what I am going to say is but don't have your investment, be voting. You're complaining about these things and then you're voting to continue these things because the people that you rely on to help guide you financially are not paying any attention to this, and I understand why it's hard and it's complicated and it's secretive, but only one of us has to pay attention, and that's what we're doing, and so we can help financial advisors and financial planners get their clients where they want to be, which would be sending a loud and clear message to Disney cut it out, think about what you're doing. We own you. Disney, the shareholders are the owners and we forget that we have authority and we don't exercise that authority. Disney owes an explanation to every investor in Disney and they haven't given it. And let's demand the explanations.
Speaker 3:And when someone puts a proposal on the ballot saying we demand an explanation. Let's have Christians and not just Christians. Like I said, 80 percent of Americans maybe 90, think that little boys should not be given chemicals that stop them from ever growing into men. That I'm not even describe what happens. We all know what happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, shrieking.
Speaker 3:Exactly what happens. We all know what happens? Yeah, Exactly what it is. It's a horrible, horrible thing. It would be considered a war crime around the world and in human history if we weren't in a madness here and Disney's pushing that stuff.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 3:Christians are voting to tell them to continue to push that stuff. So we need to get educated, and I'll educate any financial professional who wants to take this responsibility seriously.
Speaker 1:You know, jared, I think it's so important too. I just want to mention this real quickly, that that's why I think you're so needed in this day and hour. I think this is where the church needs to pivot, in this day and hour where we get more focused on not just religious things and teaching the Bible from a spiritual perspective. Even religious things and teaching the Bible from a spiritual perspective, even when God created man, he created him spirit, soul and body, all three of those the Bible caters towards and understand. I think we do a great job at the spiritual side and then we try to make everything that's a problem, including the economy, something that is spiritual, and that's not always the case.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, in addition to what you're saying. You know everybody that's watching. If you have investments in a certain company, you know. I think what Jerry shared is so important. You know we are investing in certain companies, but we don't even know where our money is going and how, how it's voted on.
Speaker 2:So I think you know, jerry, can the people that are watching okay, say if they have, say if they do have, shares in Disney right now, how can they go about making their voice heard on a both an effective and influential, in an influential way? You know how can they do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and let me say something, just one more thing about sometimes Christians just going immediately to like divesting from it like not investing in it. I wouldn't have been able to attend Disney's annual meeting last week if none of my clients owned Disney. Right, we wouldn't have been able to put that proposal on the ballot if none of them owned. So now I do get. People have a conscience issue and like it's like you meet, sacrifice to idols. If it bothers your conscience, you shouldn't own Target or Disney.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, starbucks, starbucks, If it bothers your conscience.
Speaker 3:If you think it's wrong, you can't do it. That's what Roman. That's what Paul told Romans.
Speaker 1:If you think it's wrong, it has to be a faith.
Speaker 3:If it's not a faith, it's sin. But that doesn't mean it's inherently wrong. It means that you have to follow your conscience.
Speaker 1:And we shouldn't condemn others for that as well.
Speaker 2:Great point, great point.
Speaker 1:If you don't want to do that, that's fine, but don't condemn other people because they chose to go to Starbucks.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, and there's a lot of that. So in the Christian financial industry there's a whole lot of people who make money by setting up special funds that don't have any sin in them. It's like I don't know how that works, because companies are made of humans.
Speaker 3:And they'll charge a lot extra for the privilege of keeping you out of sin, right, and that's how they make their living, and they'll shame you for doing that. It's like, no, you're allowed to eat meat. It's perfectly okay if you're in Corinth and you have the gyro, the lamb meat, you're allowed to have that, but don't shame people. All right, so people have to have that voice. So one of the things they can do is you know how many shares. You have to have to attend the annual meeting.
Speaker 1:Probably just one.
Speaker 3:That's it, yeah. And so you get a little statement in the mail if you own just one share and has something called the control number. And I did a video for American Family Association that hasn't been released yet where we teach people how to do it. Because you know, when Disney came out against that bill, which basically said don't bring up sexual stuff with kindergartners, disney came out against that bill. I attended that meeting online and at the beginning of the meeting the CEO of Disney didn't want to touch the issue. He was smart, he knew it was dangerous.
Speaker 3:But there was question after question after question after question for an hour and a half of him being attacked by activists and by the end he was beaten down and he was a coward, frankly, and said okay, we're going to fight the don't say gay bill, which isn't really a don't say gay bill, and that was that was so destructive to the company. People stopped going to theme parks. They got, they got in a fight with the governor. The governor took away control of the of the city that they, that they controlled. I mean it hurt Disney, but let's. But it's about 150 questions. There was not a single question from our side, not one, just question after question from the other side. What if there had been 300 Christians who were asking their questions at that?
Speaker 1:end. But to your point, jerry, I think that's the issue is that I mean even us right now. I mean what I'm hearing you say. I'm like, wow, my mind just starts going all these different areas, like, well, why don't Christians start investing into some of these places so we can have a seat at the table and be able to use their voice.
Speaker 1:And then therefore, obviously, at the end of the day, disney and all these other people that have different organizations, they want to make money. So if the all their owners and the people that are the contributors to there, and the people that are not sponsors but what's the word Shareholders If they're the ones that are saying we don't want this, they're going to adjust to the shareholders because, like you said, the shareholders are the ones that own it. But which leads me to why we're having this right now. If we get education on economy, the kingdom side, the anointing track and the business track, and merge them together, imagine the influence we could have.
Speaker 2:So, jerry, just as both of you are talking, I'm thinking, and I don't know if there's anything like this right now, but it would be great if you had a organization full of Christians that said organization full of Christians that said we are going to raise money and this money is going to be funneled in to investing into these places so that we can make a difference. Is there anything like that?
Speaker 3:I've heard people talk about it, so it basically you would be investing in the worst, right? You're not investing in the best, you're investing in the worst, so you can have a good, so you can have a voice. Yeah, it's like Jesus eating with tax collectors and prostitutes, right, right. But he doesn't just eat, he talks.
Speaker 3:He's got a purpose in being there. I do know some situations that are confidential, with some like highly placed people Sure, they're running. So there's like screens that you can put on. You can say to your financial advisor I don't want to invest in any company that's involved with sex trafficking, right? So there's somebody that we've been working with to say wait a minute, let's turn those screens around, let's. Why don't you only invest in companies that are involved in sex trafficking? You don't?
Speaker 3:have to buy a lot right, you invest in companies that are involved in sex trafficking. You don't have to buy a lot right, you're just buying enough you can get in the door, right. And then you say, well, I don't want to profit from that. Great, don't profit from it. Take it all, give it to anti-trafficking organizations, right?
Speaker 3:If they pay a dividend, give it to fight trafficking, but get that seat at the only invest you know, invest in the company that are the worst. Yeah, seat at the table so you can say to them what you're doing isn't right, what you're doing is going to damage you in the long run yeah, not just in the afterlife, but here too, and you need to take these things seriously.
Speaker 1:Jerry, you know real quick on the whole thing with Jamal Bryant. I don't know if you know what Jamal Bryant is. He's the one, he's the black pastor out of Atlanta that's been doing this thing with Target. He told all of his church to go on like a 40 day fast for Target because the whole DEI piece and all that stuff. Well, he's going about the wrong way then, wouldn't he? Because really you want to go to the shareholders meeting.
Speaker 3:That's really. They captured Target, See. I mean, what's happened is for about 30 years the other side has been showing up at shareholder meetings and we haven't, we didn't even know we could. So shareholder engagement is what got these companies off track. So boycotts don't really change companies very much.
Speaker 1:Not at all.
Speaker 3:Right and divesting, like I won't invest in them because they're evil. That doesn't change. The companies don't even know you didn't invest in it. Like you know, people don't send a letter saying I would have invested in you, disney, but you know, but because of that same sex kiss, I won't. The company's, just somebody else buys the shares. It's showing up and being a pain in the neck. That makes a difference.
Speaker 1:And you can do that as an owner.
Speaker 3:So I think that that boycott thing about GDI. I don't think that's really going to work very well. What works is being an owner and showing up and sticking with it, learning the rules. I think about a lot that Jesus told the parable of the importunate widow she just keeps knocking and knocking. So I have a lot of meetings with these companies Susan and I do and other members of my team and a lot of times it's like knocking and there's no justice from the judge.
Speaker 3:But we started talking to Target four years ago and they just did not want to hear it and we said what you're doing is so unwise, it's so risky, you're hurting the brand. And we even started to talk about the spiritual state. Like I talked to the investor relations person, I said I just want you to think about something for a minute. You banned a book that said that children should not get sex change operations. You banned that book. That book made the argument Irreversible Damage is the name of the book made the argument for why it's risky to stick these chemicals into kids. Right, just think for a moment. What if that book's argument is right? And what if somebody would have read the book but they didn't because you banned it? And then they went ahead and underwent sex change and regretted it terribly. Do you really want that on your conscience? To think about what that means that you did that?
Speaker 3:Now we can talk about business. It's going to hurt your brand. It's going to hurt your sales. Eventually there's going to be a backlash, but for now you don't see that yet. So let me get you to see something else. I want you to think about the moral dimension of being partly responsible for some boy who, at 25, says my God, what did I do Right, do Right. Some girl put her breasts off and said I'll never. You know, I'll never feel right again because nobody warned me, because the books that were warning, that were banned from Amazon or from Target. So, but eventually, now Target's learning. But it's been a very, very painful lesson for them. But that's the terrible, the input. We've been knocking at that door for four years and people said you're wasting your time. It's like, well, it's God's time. So you know, we'll see if we're wasting it and you know, eventually, recently Target did change a bunch of things. They have a long way to go. They did yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they did. Well, you know, at the end of the day, it sounds like the money talks, money's talking here. If you have the money to invest and I think that's where we really need to pray Lord, give us the finances, give us the tools that we need to really invest. And honestly, jerry, this never thought. You know, like a company like Disney and having the experiences that I have had, I would have never thought, oh, invest in them so that I can have a voice to ultimately change. Change and shift the trajectory of Disney. You know, I would have never thought that and I think, really, even just to go further and deeper, I think it's really getting the, the mind of Christ, getting kingdom wisdom on all this as we're moving forward, as we're. You know cause, I would have never thought I wrote down um, you said, at the meeting they brought up, um, the, the with kindergartners, the sexual things with kindergartners. You know, just touching on that, I would have never thought that we would be talking about that with Disney.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a wholesome family brand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wholesome. I mean, I remember growing up watching different Disney shows and things like that that were considered you're right, jerry, that were considered wholesome. Now we're looking at whether or not they're going to strip the innocence from our children in one show.
Speaker 1:And at the end of the day, they don't even like to your point, Jerry, which I mean. Ladies and gentlemen, I hope that you're really catching this, Jerry. I'm going to do everything I can. I want to see if we can get you back on cornerstone, Because I think this is needs the way the church needs to pivot, absolutely, you know, is that because like you said, we can preach on it and people cannot go.
Speaker 1:But as long as some shareholders keep investing into Disney and they have the stronger voice, disney is going to do whatever it is that the shareholders want, because they're held captive by, just like our, our politicians are held captive by the people that invest into them. Uh, so if they pay them a certain amount of money to help get them into that office and they're owned because they're in bed with those individuals? Let me ask this question, though, jerry, like if, if you say, for example, we said, hey, all right, we're gonna start investing, we get one share into disney, right, so we're gonna get as many shares as we possibly can. Ethically, like biblically, how would we?
Speaker 1:For me it sounds right, but I'm talking out loud right now, so those that are listening, if I'm off the kilter right now, I'll come back and I'll adjust it. But what I'm hearing you say is like what if we started doing things like that? We got one, two, three. Then we started getting more and more voices to go to, and then any money we make, we take that and either reinvest it or go to like target and say, well, we're going to start having voices there.
Speaker 1:And because you actually do kind of like a hostile takeover in essence with your voice by continually going after those things.
Speaker 3:Right, but in some sense right, it's a takeover, but not a hostile one, because they're they're harming themselves, right. So it's, it's, it's well. I mean, what is the bottom takeover?
Speaker 1:Kingdom takeover, right and well, it's an exorcism, isn't it yeah?
Speaker 3:right, I mean these, these spirits are not helping the companies that's right, yeah, so yeah, I. I mean, I think that's that's the right approach. And you think about this, like sometimes people say you can't be invested in something that's not aligned with your values and I think, well, wait a minute, jesus, invested in me, uh, something that's not aligned with your values and I think well, wait a minute.
Speaker 1:Jesus invested in me and I wasn't aligned with his values To get us to shift.
Speaker 3:Yeah Right, he bought me, he bought us, he engaged and he changed me Like I wasn't. I wasn't aligned with Jesus when he bought me. So he invested everything in me and then he changed me. So he invested everything in me and then he changed me right as the owner, as the owner. He's my owner because he's my creator, but he's my owner also because he's my redeemer.
Speaker 1:He owns me twice.
Speaker 3:He bought me right On the cross, and so now he gets to tell me what to do. Right, and he aligned me with his values. And so Jesus could have said well, I don't want anything to do with that, that's all sinful. I don't want anything to do with Jerry Boyer. He's an atheist. He's getting in fights all the time, he's getting drunk. I mean, I don't need to go into my teenage years and do much more. You know, I would not have been someone that you know. If Jesus was a good investor from the standpoint of the way that a lot of Christians think about investment, he would not have invested in me.
Speaker 3:But he did, and then he changed me and I think we need to think of these companies the same way.
Speaker 1:Man, this is so good. Jerry, this is like.
Speaker 3:I'm like.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's very few times I'm like completely lost for words, like man. We got to get this message out.
Speaker 2:Well, I think too, it's we're digesting. Yeah, all of this digesting it, and I hope you all are doing the same thing digesting it and saying, ok, lord, what's my next step? What do I need to do to have an impact, a kingdom impact, and have influence in the world? You know, it's just, it's amazing. Yeah, it really is amazing.
Speaker 1:And Jerry, obviously I said I mean we could keep you here all night, but we're not going to do that, we could just keep you rolling, cause it's just so. I mean, man, it's just so good. I hope that you'll come back later on and do a part two for us somewhere down the line, because I you got my wheels going now. I'm like man, you know what, even if you start with one share, and I think about like this too, jerry, like if you start investing and God sees that and you're not using those products, you're not doing it to cost thing, like you said, even if they have sex trafficking, well, guess what?
Speaker 1:We get enough people in there, we can go in there and talk about it, and then we use the money, like you said, to set the people that are being sex trafficked free you know, however, we choose to do it, but thinking differently, and I think that's why it comes back to how we started this whole thing the business track and the anointing track, and they both have to go hand in hand. So, jerry, thank you so much for this.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it. Matter of fact, jerry, you know, just on a side note, I'm underneath the table hitting him, pushing him, saying let me in. I have some more questions people hitting him, pushing him, saying let me in, I have some more questions.
Speaker 1:And I'm dead serious. I am going to go, I'm going to make sure that I'm going to take this to Steve Johnson at Cornerstone and anybody that can hear and say this needs to be shared. I think this could spark a revolution in Christian people, Without a doubt. I don't know many people that even know her.
Speaker 2:No, no, I mean just the way, because you don't think. You think, okay, I'm not going to, I'm going to go away from those things that are not of God, I'm not going to have anything to do with them at all. But you know, for obvious reasons, because we don't understand economy because we don't understand and we don't understand and and jerry, you did such a great job with this and explaining it we don't understand how to shift yeah economy.
Speaker 2:So not only do we not understand economy, we don't know how to shift economy as well so now I mean, that's just, that's true wisdom, that's true kingdom wisdom, and for that we greatly appreciate you sharing that with us and causing our minds to start turning, or wheels to turn, and really we just have a different perspective on how to view kingdom economics.
Speaker 1:Any closing thoughts man.
Speaker 3:More than that. Thank you. God bless you for that.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you Any closing thoughts to us, jerry? I mean you dropped a boatload on us you did.
Speaker 3:This is the time People have talked about a vibe shift. I don't know if you've heard that phrase, but now we're talking differently.
Speaker 3:It's it's sort of coming out of politics. The people are talking differently and they're bolder Now. I know there's vibes don't run the world Right, the Holy Spirit Right. So it's not a vibe shift, it's a shift in the Holy Spirit. But but the Holy Spirit doesn't always hang around forever in the places where we don't tap into him. So the Holy Spirit I mean, I'm not saying it'll leave us and we'll lose our salvation, but the Holy Spirit has these times where he comes along and invites us to be part of it. But we have to participate and there has never been a time when it's less scary to speak up, because there's been a mood in the country now, two years ago there were things if you're afraid, if you said them you'd be canceled, yeah, and now that's all shifting.
Speaker 3:If Christians can't find their voice now come on, that's then that they're never going to find it because this is this is an easy time right now yeah, yeah, that's so true and I think if we don't take advantage of this easy time, we're going to get a harder time than it was before I totally agree so this is an opening? I think there's an opening. Go through now, don't wait. Right, there's a part of Jericho, a part of the wall fell down. Christians might say oh. I mean those who supported Trump might say we won, it's over, right as if the election would be the victim of a victory of the kingdom.
Speaker 3:A part of the wall fell down. Now, whether you think that's the election or whether you think other things going on in the kingdom or whatever, I'm just saying I think all Christians get a sense we can move now, we can talk, we can breathe a little bit more right at this moment in history. I credit God with that. I don't credit Donald Trump with that. I credit God. Go through that opening in the wall, because otherwise the city will just rebuild the wall. Right. What did Jesus say? On this rock I'll build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
Speaker 1:Can we please remember that gates are?
Speaker 3:defensive, that's right. The kingdom of Satan is defensive. We're laying siege to it, oh good. And the wall and a part of the wall just fell. What are we going to do? Are we going to go in or not? Are we going to ravage it? Are we going to go in there and bind the strong man and plunder his house, or are we just going to stay out here and whine and complain? Wow.
Speaker 1:That is so good, jerry, you know, mean I, I, I don't even know how to pivot from this because, uh, it's just been so good. Yeah, you do. But uh, listen before we go, let you go. Uh, we, we usually do it up front, but we jumped right in, so, uh, can we ask you to be a part of our would you rather, segment? I don't know. Well, our producer went a little bit sooner than he was supposed to go, I guess. So I guess you're already in, jeremy.
Speaker 3:You just don't know it, you're already in, I'll do the Would you Rather segment. Awesome, awesome I don't know what it is, but I trust you.
Speaker 1:Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what? We just want to have a little fun. And this is just a question of would you rather do A or would you rather do B? So the first question is and this is great because we're coming right off of our economic investment talk, investment talk. Would you rather, Jerry, have $1 million, but you can only live for the next five to seven years? Or would you rather live on $45,000 a year for the rest of your life, but see, with that you can't make any more money? So it's $40,000 a year flat.
Speaker 3:So it's $40,000 a year flat, I'll take the second. Okay, I got a lot of work to do, you know, and I don't think I can get done what I think God wants me to do in the next five to seven years. Awesome.
Speaker 1:I was curious on what the economist would say. I thought maybe he'd take the $40,000. Or would he take that?
Speaker 3:and do the investment?
Speaker 1:or would he take the $1 million and say I can do this, so no for me. That's what I said too.
Speaker 3:I've lived on $45,000 before I can do it again.
Speaker 2:There we go, All right. So the next couple of questions. I'm just going to go biblical, straight biblical. So would you rather be swallowed by a fish with Jonah or share the lion's den with Daniel?
Speaker 3:Well, it was only one night with the lion's den, whereas the three days, it was I'm going to go to the lion's den.
Speaker 2:Okay, good, what would you do? Well, I'll say, that's the economist mind operating right there.
Speaker 1:He's like all right, let me take your three days.
Speaker 3:one day he's got it all figured out there. That's costly.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what, jerry? I kind of liked how it ended up, because now it's at the end. After talking with you a little bit, I'm just really interested to see where you're going to go with it.
Speaker 1:Well, if I know the end from the beginning first of all, jonah, I believe in what most people believe, that he died, yeah, and so, first of all, and that you can slowly be digested in there, yes, so I mean there's a whole lot of stuff. Then he got spewed up on the line, daniel, you know, he, he, he didn't do that, but just used the line as a pillow. He did, so I think I'll take the lines then Mr Mrs Vanna White, for that I'm going to take that there.
Speaker 3:OK, I like the mammals more than the fish too. I like the mammals more than the fish too. You know, like you know, in the nature shows, I always find the mammal, like the alligator, is going after the wildebeest. I'm going for the wildebeest, all right.
Speaker 2:Usually the wildebeest. They mind their own business anyway, you know. So all right.
Speaker 1:You know, so All right. Last question is would you rather help build Noah's Ark or name the?
Speaker 3:animals like Adam. Oh, now we're going back to what we talked about. I'm not good at carpentry.
Speaker 2:OK.
Speaker 3:I like animals. I'm going, I'm going back to the garden where we started this interview.
Speaker 2:Where we started it Nice, nice that is so good. Yeah, oh man, what about you? I started this interview when we started it Nice, nice, that is so good. Yeah, oh man, what about you?
Speaker 1:I like building stuff? Yeah, I do. I mean that's 120 year commitment though, jerry, I ain't gonna lie. I mean the animals out in the hall, I took them, but I bet it wasn't 120 years, that was 120 year commitment. But you know, know also, they lived to like 900 years old at that time too. So I mean it's about a tenth of your life. So that'd be like now if you took, uh, what would it be like? 10 years to our hundred?
Speaker 1:yeah yeah around about you know kind of. So I don't know. I mean, uh, I probably do the arc. I think that'd be kind of neat to check that out and never see that yeah, that'd be pretty cool and then I'd be able to see all the animals that Jerry named.
Speaker 2:So, jerry, this is just I'm just saying here. You heard him say, you said you like to build stuff right. Ok, well, I have some projects, Jerry, in the house.
Speaker 1:This was recorded. This was recorded.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he likes to build. So I'm going to see, I'm going to give you some, some items to build in that that doesn't mean I'm any good, I just like it.
Speaker 1:You know I like economy stuff too, jerry, but I'm not good at it. You know like you are, you know well. Thank you so much, jerry. We really appreciate you for being a good sport and then also just sharing with us you know, just all the knowledge that you have and just giving us all a deeper insight into how we can have a greater voice in this, really this Kairos moment, where the church needs to pivot and shift to be able to have their voice heard and maybe even see this great awakening happen using economy and biblical things. So thanks so much for hanging out with us today on Dimensions.
Speaker 3:Thank you, it was a pleasure Amen.
Speaker 1:Such a blessing. Amen, god bless you. So, my goodness, I mean, I don't, know what to say.
Speaker 1:We usually don't go this long, y'all but man, this is so good, I want to get it back for part two and part three. And I mean I've always known him to be such a man of knowledge and wisdom and every time I'm with him he's always just bring something brand. That's why I was like man I was I'm advocating for him to get his own show somewhere. So I mean cause, just. I mean imagine what that could do in us If we all started, even if we started with one investment.
Speaker 1:I feel like whenever you're a good steward over something, you say, okay, I'm going to take the first step, and then maybe some of you that have money that can invest, I and there may be some of you that have money that can invest. So you know, I'm going to go invest into Disney, I'm going to invest. And I was thinking what if churches all got together and said we're going to start raising all these funds to be able to invest in these different places? So then we could send people like Jerry into those arenas to speak to those that know the Bible and then have a voice from all of us going in there. You get 10 Jerry's on there to go into these different places like Target and Disney, and I didn't get a chance to ask him. Any other businesses might be like.
Speaker 1:It could be Starbucks and all that instead of just boycotting and not imagine that though that would really hurt them If you said, okay, not only are we not going to support them.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:You boycott a friend, but then you go into the shareholders meeting with a voice, I mean you could turn them places upside down because they want to make money. At the end of the day, that's the bottom line. Whether it's preaching Jesus or anything else, they want to make money.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, you mentioned about taking the one step.
Speaker 2:I believe that's what God is asking us to do. He's saying just take that one step, take that one step towards investing. If he's called you to do that, take that one step. You know, I think about us and our pregnancy center. We took that one step and that next step led us to another step, and then that step led us to another step and God provided. But I think if we all got together and we said you know what we're as Christians, as people that love God, as ambassadors of the kingdom of heaven, we're all going to take that one step together. We're going to develop whatever organization and we're going to say we're going to raise this money and we're going to start becoming major shareholders and we're going to watch things shift, watch what God does, and we add our faith to that, because we know that the Lord is moved by faith. We add our faith to that. I think it's going to blow our minds what God can do when we start doing that, and how even the economy will shift more towards a kingdom economy.
Speaker 1:And then we can do a part two, hopefully someday with Jerry. We can get them on there and ask them questions like you know, what could be the success rate? How? How would we gauge that? How do we? How do we? You know what, what could happen, what are the results of that? What if we start doing this? What would it look like long-term, a year or two years down the line? I mean, because I think if people understood this, I think a lot of people would invest into that. I already got me thinking like, even if I get one share at first, or two shares or three shares, whatever it is, and then any of the residual money you get now you buy six or whatever you do, you just keep putting it back in for the purpose of having all these people with voices be able to speak to truth, to power. So I mean, this is just really outstanding, so just really good stuff. Any closing?
Speaker 2:thoughts. Well, I just wrote so many. I hope you had your notepad too. I wrote so many nuggets of truth I mean I could. I think one of the things that kind of stood out to me was he said, the kingdom of darkness, the gates, means you're on defense.
Speaker 1:The gates of hell are on defensive.
Speaker 2:So there's something that the enemy obviously is scared of. He doesn't want us to come and push up against him. But you know what? All things, even when we're talking about this, all things are possible when you serve the Lord.
Speaker 1:So, ladies and gentlemen, we wrap up here on dimensions. First of all, I didn't do this, I just jumped right into everything. Take them into, like, subscribe, follow, share. We're on YouTube, facebook and we're on every platform where podcasts are delivered, sold, whatever. I mean. We're on iHeartRadio, podchaser, ample, android Store. I mean all of them. We're on all of them. So get this and then you can be the latest addition to the Dimensions family and hear more stories and conversations with people like Jer. We've got so many other things that are going to be coming up as well, and we wish we could take forever to talk to y'all, but we know we got to get out of here.
Speaker 2:Well, next week listen, you do not want to miss. Next week we have our sister in Christ. Her name is Tammy. She actually came and spoke to the women at our women's ministry and boy I mean, if you don't. I mean, her testimony is powerful, she's a worship leader, she loves God, but she's going to talk to everybody about her process of losing children, the healing process and what God did. So you don't want to miss it. If there's anybody that you know that has lost children, lost a loved one, and maybe that you know somebody that's still grieving out there, that needs help, that needs some guidance, you want to make sure that you tune in. You know, I think about just how awesome a woman of God she is and what God her, what God brought her through and out of. It's amazing. You don't want to miss it.
Speaker 1:So we've got a whole lot of other conversations that are going to happen. People like Jerry, people like Tammy, people so many other people that are going to be coming on. That's what I love about dimensions there's levels to this, so we're going to talk about every facet of life. So thank you for taking some time with us today. We hope that you are blessed and we'll look forward to seeing you next week right here on dimensions. Thank you.
