Dimensions
Join J. Anthony and Tiffany Gilbert as they discuss current events and give biblical commentary to help educate, encourage, and elevate your faith.
Dimensions
Marriage: Forgiveness, Communication, and Needs in Relationships
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Pastors Larry and Lorrie Russell share transformative insights from their 42-year marriage and decades of helping couples through Shepherd's Heart Ministry, focusing on forgiveness, communication, and emotional safety.
• True communication requires being "quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry"
• The "10-10" method allows each spouse five minutes of uninterrupted speaking while the partner actively listens
• Unforgiveness is like holding the rope of a ringing bell—when you let go, the sound gradually fades
• Five-step forgiveness process: express hurt, forgive specific actions, forgive yourself, ask God's forgiveness, and bless the person
• Remember you're not fighting your spouse but the enemy behind them—you're allies, not enemies
• Identify your emotional "air, water and food"—the non-negotiable needs you must have in relationship
• Love means "doing what's best for you even if it's hard for me"
• Follow God's priority structure: relationship with God first, spouse second, children third, ministry fourth
• Safety is the entry point to intimacy—create a space where both partners can be vulnerable without fear
For blended family resources, reach out to Shepherd's Heart Ministry at hello@shministry.com or call 303-884-8030.
What's going on everybody? It's Pastor Jay and Tiffany. Here. We are live and ready to go in on our Dimensions podcast here. We are so excited to have all you all with us here today and we've got a great show that's coming up.
Speaker 2:We do. I can't wait till we bring on our guests. I mean, we were just the laughter. I wish we could tell the story.
Speaker 1:I'm sure they will. They won't mind.
Speaker 2:We don't have any pictures, but we can definitely tell them. We don't have any pictures, but I'm telling everybody. It is a phenomenal story that is going to make you laugh. So I'm hoping, I'm hoping they will let us tell the story.
Speaker 1:They don't care, they don't care.
Speaker 2:We don't have any pictures to show, but we'll have to give them that in a minute, but I'm telling you it is funny. I'm telling you it is funny.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what makes marriage great is you got to be able to laugh. You're going to cry, you can have some ups, you can have some downs, but you got to make it through it all.
Speaker 2:You better laugh, because if you don't laugh, you're going to cry.
Speaker 1:You're going to cry. That's right.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I feel like crying everybody, but I am going to laugh.
Speaker 1:I choose joy, choose joy, yeah I choose joy, choose joy that's right. Where's your bracelet? Where's mine? Um, I don't know where's yours. She got me these choose joy bracelets, but you know, I guess the joy went out the window.
Speaker 2:Huh, at least on our wrist everybody that's right, so yeah so that's good. So I'm excited about the, the two guests that we have coming up. We've known well, you've known them for a lot longer than I have 20, it'll be 20, it's 24 years this september.
Speaker 1:Okay that I've known them, uh, a lot longer than I have. How long have you? It'll be 20, it's 24 years of September that I've known them. They've been coverings in our ministry. They have been marriage mentors to us. We haven't always had it the way we have it now. Even in our ups and downs they got us through some difficult times, I was the one who had it together.
Speaker 1:She had it together. But you know, y'all stretch your hands that way and just pray for this woman right now, in the name of Jesus, stand in the gap for her, cause she needs a little prayer right now. She needs a little help, y'all.
Speaker 2:Listen, I do. I need prayer. Fill me up so I can pray for you See what we got to do.
Speaker 1:You got to get some B-roll to show you all what happens after the cameras go off. I tell people all the time about you. I said, listen, if you offend somebody, you want to offend me. You don't want to offend her because underneath, that jacket.
Speaker 2:There's a blade and a nine millimeter. People are going to really think.
Speaker 1:She's got both.
Speaker 2:They're going to really think that I have, that I come packing.
Speaker 1:She does. There's a switchblade under that coat and a nine. So that's why I'm never afraid, because I know when I'm with you. You got my back.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm just going to plead the fifth on that.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to say anything else.
Speaker 2:I did have to protect myself. I do have to protect myself sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't want to talk about my cut cone knives. I'm going to leave that alone.
Speaker 2:Let's not go there. I'm gonna leave that alone. I'm gonna stick on the scripture. In the scripture, you know where the word of god says that the lord will fight for me and all we have to do is keep silent and I'm gonna stand on that.
Speaker 1:Love covers a multitude of sins and a multitude of cut cone knives, but I'm gonna leave that alone. We ain't gonna go there, but you On the real though our guests are phenomenal.
Speaker 1:They've been in our life for many years. I've known them since, as a matter of fact, I flew the first time to Denver to meet them in their ministry. They were the executive pastors there In 2001,. I flew two weeks after 9-11. It was the first time I ever flew in my life. I never felt more safe and more protected, because I'll tell you what everybody was going through TSA differently after two weeks of that.
Speaker 1:So I flew what was called Fire in the Rockies, the Bishop Dennis Leonard ministry, and they had, like all these pastors conferences and stuff that they had in the middle of that Fire in the Rockies conference. So they had great speakers and music and then what happened is a gentleman, pastor Elvin, who's going to be on later on. I was just out at his church about a month ago speaking out there. He introduced me to the ministry where Bishop Dennis Leonard the late great Bishop Dennis Leonard at Heritage Christian Center, and came in there and I heard Pastor Russell ministering on Five Star Ministry and I said, man, I was like 20 some years old, early 20s, pastoring a church. I said, man, I need somebody like that in my life. So I went to him. So I want you to be my mentor.
Speaker 2:And he's been with me ever since, since 2001, 2002, somewhere around there that we made it official and he still stuck with you.
Speaker 1:He still stuck with me. Great story about this man of God as well. I remember I went through a real dark time in 2004. And I remember he came up to the ministry and it was the first time I really had this type of relationship with somebody and he really just opened up his heart and I sat down and I said listen, I'm afraid that if you see everything about me, you'll leave me and I forget. We were at Applebee's and I'm sitting in, I'm looking across the table at him. He said listen, no matter what happens, you're stuck with me. And 25 years later, almost 25 years, he's still here and he's even on the podcast today. So really excited to have them. And they're such great couples they're. They're phenomenal people. They co-founded together.
Speaker 1:Shepherd's heart ministry was a ministry to hurting pastors. They don't charge pastors anything to minister. Matter of fact, I didn't know this. I was their first person that they brought in. I was the guinea pig, but you know what, If I'm the guinea pig and I'm still here 25 years later, it works. So, listen, if you're struggling ministry, they brought me out. I was actually staying right down the street from the at the time the Denver Broncos quarterback that was there. There was this beautiful mansion that they had me stay in with these people and they just ministered and poured into me and they don't charge pastors anything. They're over in Israel, They've been out in Canada I forgot all the other places, places and they just travel around ministering to pastors and marriages and that's why we wanted to bring them on to talk to them about marriages today, Cause I think it's going to be really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what? They are an awesome couple and I feel like they are a force to be reckoned with in the kingdom. Um, I'd love to ask them this question, though Did they ever look at the phone, their phone, and see us?
Speaker 1:on the caller ID. They didn't want nothing to do with us.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Because, listen.
Speaker 2:They helped us through some hard times. They saw that smoke coming off that phone. They didn't want nothing to do with that.
Speaker 1:They use that statement nowadays. They don't want that smoke. They didn't want that smoke between us, but they got us here.
Speaker 2:It gets real, everybody it gets real. It is so real, I'm telling you right now. It's so real, I'm telling you right now, but yeah, so why don't you?
Speaker 1:let's bring them on. Well, pastors, larry and Laura, so glad to have you. Let's bring them on with us tonight. So good to have you guys with us all the way from Denver Colorado.
Speaker 2:God bless you guys there. I just I want to know the answer, though I want to know the answer.
Speaker 1:I think they're on mute.
Speaker 2:Are they still on mute? Let's see, can you hear us? Oh now, yeah, you're good now yeah so we can hear us. Okay now, yes, we can we can hear you right.
Speaker 3:Well, we started answering when you got that burner phone and we didn't know who it was.
Speaker 2:Those are rough times those you, you two, helped us through some crazy, crazy times. You know, I can look back and I'm like wow.
Speaker 1:You know people say, if it had not been for the Lord and I put down and the Russells, where would we be?
Speaker 2:They know us in and out and they're still here, they're still here with us. And you guys are still here.
Speaker 1:We are.
Speaker 4:Right, that's pretty exciting, like what you said, yeah.
Speaker 1:After all the years A week and a half ago was 13 years for us, so we made it 13 years, by the grace of God. A whole lot of laughter, but, honestly, though, that's what makes them qualified. Ladies and gentlemen, I really want you to tune into them. They're going to be talking about blended families and a lot of things. You know, one of the things that you guys kind of mentioned right from the jump was well, matter of fact, before we get into that, we want to do our segment. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I like to get right into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 4:OK, go ahead. You set it up All right. Well, pastors, are you ready to go into, would you?
Speaker 2:rather we're ready. All right, that's good, All right. So first question and it would be great if you both answer First question would you rather never age?
Speaker 4:mentally or physically. Mentally or physically.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:I would say, I would prefer mentally, I would never age mentally.
Speaker 2:Okay, and then why, pastor Lori? Is there any reason?
Speaker 4:The scripture says we're going to fade, we're going to grow old with things that stop working. I would rather have my mind. Yes, I would rather be able to have my mind, the mental state to be able to just be able to communicate, to be able to do things, be able to love my children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren. All of that I'd rather have the mental, mental. Okay.
Speaker 2:All right, good, good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd rather age mental too, and then the body can just kind of fall off whenever it's ready.
Speaker 2:Good boy, they're the sexiest 70-year-, 70 years, but they sure are dumb, they can't remember their name. I mean, what would you pick?
Speaker 1:what I think I was.
Speaker 2:I was trying to know the questions.
Speaker 1:I was like you know what I would pick the opposite, what you do. So if you do the mind, I'll do the body, and vice versa, and then you'll be one whole right. You know what I would pick the opposite of what you do.
Speaker 4:So if you do the mind, I'll do the body, and vice versa, and then you'll be one whole right.
Speaker 2:That's really good.
Speaker 4:I hadn't thought about that. What's?
Speaker 1:that Pastor Laura.
Speaker 4:I said that's really good, I hadn't thought about that, because you'll become one right, that's right.
Speaker 1:Well, we always talk about like with her, like she can't hear anything, but she can smell a mile, a million miles away.
Speaker 2:So we make a great team. I will smell what's coming. He will hear what's coming.
Speaker 1:That's right, there you go.
Speaker 2:Yes, all right. Number two would you rather and this is a fun one would you rather wear sweatpants for the rest of your life or have to wear sparkles on everything?
Speaker 3:Sweat Hands down. Yeah right, so you don't wear sparkles on everything.
Speaker 1:I don't wear sparkles anytime.
Speaker 3:Well, when God delivered me from suits, it was complete. I gave up sparkles at the same time.
Speaker 1:You know that was listen. That was a true exorcism for me. Double deliverance to get out of suits.
Speaker 2:It took me a while, but you like wearing them, though sometimes Jackets, but I don't wear.
Speaker 1:When's the last time you seen me in a full suit, except for like, maybe?
Speaker 2:a few when you went to a church that you had to wear a full suit.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Which was what's that? Pastor Alvin's? The Pastor Alvin's, I think? Yep, Pastor Alvin's. That's the only time I ever wore one in like forever. Pastor Russell helped me get delivered from the suits, that's hilarious. That is hilarious.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, no sparkles, all right. So would you rather give up your night's sleep and resolve an issue, or go to bed and resolve it in the morning?
Speaker 4:I'd rather. I'd rather give up the night's sleep like we have before. Really, we'll stay up till two in the morning, and actually this happened a couple of months ago, where we had an issue that we needed to work through. We stayed up till 2 am. We finally got there, we did it, we prayed together, we went to bed.
Speaker 2:You bet, well, just to be real, we probably need to stay up till 2 am tonight. She's funny y'all. She got joy, so I'm so glad. I am so glad that you said that.
Speaker 1:See, I'm a little bit different, so I would rather sometimes step away from an issue. I'd rather step away because sometimes you know you guys got how many years you've been married now 42.
Speaker 1:42. I mean you got 30 more years than we do. So I mean you're like triple more of what we have. And sometimes I think stepping away from an issue and getting up in the morning you're fresh, you know if you can deal, that. You have the stamina and have the skills to be able to work through it. But sometimes the more you stay in there, the worse it gets, and sometimes you don't stay consistent with what you need to do and so now the gloves come off. People start saying things they don't want to say. People get frustrated. You stop listening, you know. So I mean there's no sense staying up. And then it turns and you both wake up.
Speaker 2:You wake up in the morning but it's because, you got a cut coach out, so he won't tell you that oh my gosh pastor larry. What about you?
Speaker 3:well, we do have a rule that that if we get into conflict, either one of us can it can call a timeout timeout, and so we can say I want to time out for one hour. At the end of one hour I can ask for a second, and at the end of two I can ask for a third. But after, after three, we have to talk.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay.
Speaker 3:Because for me, I I want to get it processed and so I can respond immediately. Lori needs to go away and think about it ponder it, get in her hula hoop that she talks about. Talk to God about it Once she talks to Jesus.
Speaker 3:It's a pretty easy road after that. So now I tell her go talk to Jesus, otherwise it can happen. Lori then can solve it all with herself and with the Lord and all of that, and she's just OK, and I'm not, and so she could just go on forever, and so that's why we have it at the end of three hours, we have to talk.
Speaker 3:So that's why we have it at the end of three hours, we have to talk. Or, as you said, another rule is is that if either one of us postpone something, that the person who postpones has to bring it up. So if. I say to Lori you know I really can't talk about this tonight, I'm just my mind's not there. But I'll talk to you at seven o'clock tomorrow night. At 7 o'clock tomorrow night it's my responsibility to bring it up, not for her to come and say you said you would talk at 7.
Speaker 4:Right, there's always a time zone, yeah, so it just doesn't get swept under the rug and you never talk about it again. But I think the important thing is what do you agree on doing Staying up until 2 am to solve that issue or are we both just exhausted and we need to? We need to get some sleep and process that and then come back together tomorrow morning yeah, either one of us have to pull a time out in that situation right you know what I found out too, obviously, in the years that I've talked with you guys and you've talked with us at different times.
Speaker 1:I have found out, too, something you said a while that I've talked with you guys and you've talked with us at different times. I have found out, too, something you said a while ago, pastor Lori. You said go to the throne and then to the phone and we call you guys here and there and whatever. And hey, we got to walk through this, and one of the things I realized is nobody can replace what God's DNA is for your marriage. You can glean from people, but there's some things that I've realized.
Speaker 1:God said I'm not going to bless your marriage until you do what I called you to do, and even though it may have worked, it doesn't mean that you discard what other people share with you. But there's some things that God reserves for himself that you have to figure out what works for you, and that's why I like what you just said about you have to agree upon it. So you've got to figure out what works for you and we can glean from other people. There were certain times I was doing certain things that you guys wanted us to do and I was trying to work those things and it just wasn't working. It wasn't that your advice wasn't right, because your advice was good, but there were things that I, that God wanted me to do, that he gave me personally, and when I did those things it unlocked things in our marriage. So I just want to share that I, our marriage.
Speaker 2:So I just want to share that I know we're not kind of going in on it right yet, but we're kind of segueing right into it. Yeah, I mean and I think this is the communication piece that we're talking about that I think you know it gets it's. It becomes problematic for so many couples, you know, in the beginning, in the middle. In the end, I think they're. You know, what you talked about is having a plan, so I'm so glad that you're mentioning that, because I think that's what people need. People need a plan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they do, and that's what you guys have always given to us. You've given us some things and there's things you can glean, but you always said that to us, pastor Laura. You said make sure you go to the throne first and then come to the throne.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think that that's why Larry loves when I go in my hula hoop, because that's my hula hoop, is my time alone with the Lord, and a lot of times, what God shows us in those times with him, before we even talk, is what was my contribution to this issue that just happened between the two of us? Was I feeling fearful? Was I threatened by that? Was I jealous of that? You know what just happened with me, lord, and nobody knows us better than he knows our hearts, right.
Speaker 4:And so a lot of times when I go to the throne, first he'll tell me what my contribution was to that particular, and then I can go to Larry and we can discuss that and we can talk about it, and so I think that that's I'm always real clear. I always want to point people to the Lord first. He's got the answers. He speaks our language. He's the one that is probably the most gentle with us in rebuking us, in convicting us, in guiding and directing us. He knows us better than we even know ourselves.
Speaker 4:So, why not start there and then come here?
Speaker 3:Well, and one of the real keys to communication is scripture says be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry and I think there are certain personalities that it's a thought mouth.
Speaker 3:There are certain personalities that you hear something, you process information, it goes through a set of filters and then it comes out okay. But there are certain personalities that don't have those filters and so they hear something and then it's thought and mouth and what that does by going apart and taking some time, it puts a time to put a filter in that so that you can process through. Were you really really listening? I? I think one of the biggest problems we have in marriage is we don't listen very well. We get angry first and then we speak and we might listen at that point, but by then most of the damage has been done already done we get.
Speaker 3:Really, we do something called a 10-10. And a 10-10 is where you would take five minutes you have. Whatever the problem is, laurie could talk for five minutes. I can't respond, I can't interrupt, I can't say my side of it. I have to sit and actually listen and the only thing that I can say is tell me more about that or ask a question about it. But it can't rebut my mind, can't be on drive and I'm formulating my answer while they're talking. I have to really be listening and then, after that, five minutes, or you can do it 10 and 10 or five and five. Then I get to talk and I can talk about what it looks like from behind my eyes and she has to listen. In the same way. It forces listening. It's amazing what happens when you become an active listener. That's good.
Speaker 2:Well, no, I was just saying in all transparency. See, you guys didn't answer the phone for us, so we just decided to bring you on Dimensions phone for us, so we just decided to bring you on Dimensions.
Speaker 2:This is really why you're here. We can get direct ministry Counseling sessions live. But you know, I was going to ask, you know, in your years of marriage counseling, what do you think like the biggest or one of the biggest stumbling blocks within that communication sect has been, and how would you, you know, how do you tell people to deal with that? How do you resolve with that big stumbling block?
Speaker 4:With the communication.
Speaker 2:Communication yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, excuse me, I think actually that that learning the lesson is is one of the one of the things and I think something that Laurie said just a few minutes ago is it's absolutely it has to happen and that is in any situation. What are my contributions to the failure of what's going on right now?
Speaker 4:That's the first question.
Speaker 3:And the second question what am I going to the failure of what's going on right now? That's the first question. And the second question what am I going to do about it? Because if we keep doing the same thing over and over, over and over, expect a different outcome. You know what that is. That's crazy, but the other one is listening with your motor running.
Speaker 3:I think that one is because we're not really listening. I'm back to the listening thing again, but so often and I'm guilty of this I was guilty of this, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago we were talking about something or another and and Lori was trying to tell me what she trying to get me to listen to how she was feeling, and I was actually. I was interrupting her and giving my side of the thing and then, when we finished, I sat back and I thought, man, I wasn't listening because I wanted to tell my side of the story. Really bad.
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 3:I went to the bedroom where she was and I just sat down and I said you know, I'm sorry I wasn't listening and I said start again, and what she could have said. I'm too hurt, I'm not going to do it. But she started the talk and then I listened and it was an empathic kind of listening. One more thing. I think there's another thing too. I lost my hearing in Israel. We were there one year and I lost it 100% in this year and 30% in that year Wow.
Speaker 3:And it was gone about eight weeks and Lori was really encouraging. She was telling me the Lord's going to heal you, you're going to get past this. I didn't realize it right then, but later on I realized it and I came back to her and I said you know what? I didn't need to hear that. I know all that. I needed you to hear that.
Speaker 1:I'm afraid, I'm afraid.
Speaker 4:I'm afraid.
Speaker 3:I'm never going to hear again Implications that could have inside of me, and I think our listening has to have an extra dimension to it. We have to hear what's really going on, wow, here, underneath the facts. What are you feeling about that? And it is so often it's, I'm afraid, and we're afraid to say, because somebody's going to say don't be afraid. God says fear, not 365 times in the Bible, so you're not supposed to be afraid.
Speaker 3:He says be anxious for nothing, so don't be anxious anymore. And all of those are true promises. That's not what people need to hear from us a lot of times, or we need to hear what they're really saying underneath.
Speaker 4:I think one of the things that we need to remember is that we're not enemies, we're allies.
Speaker 4:And a lot of times I think that people they have the motive of, or they have the underlying thought of I need to win, I need to defend, I need to justify, rather than being solution oriented about a particular issue or a problem that's happening in their relationship. And I think that if we can, if we can remember, if we can emotionally remember, because when we start to get in conflict, you know all those hormones, everything starts going everywhere. We just need to remember that this is not our enemy, that's right.
Speaker 4:Harry is my ally, I am his ally, and we don't fight. Remember that this is not our enemy, that's right. Gary is my ally, I am his ally, and we don't fight flesh and blood. Right, we know who we fight and we know who we're fighting behind the scenes. And I think that it's really, really important if we can just have those senses about us to know that we want to be solution oriented. We want to come up with a solution, but we want to be heard and understood. We want to come up with a solution, but we want to be heard and understood. We want to listen, we want to be understood with what's happening and then go to solution.
Speaker 4:Because I think that that's so important, because a lot of people will they might talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, but they never stop, they never resolve, and then what happens is it comes up again and so you never resolve. And so if we can be solution oriented, I think that that's probably one of the things in communication that I think would be important.
Speaker 1:What is you guys' advice in regards to that? Say, for example, someone's talk, talk, talk, talk doesn't move on. How do you make sure they're being heard, not interrupting them, allowing them to finish? But there has to come a point where you move on into the solution. How do you navigate that? How do you guys do that? Or what would be your advice to people?
Speaker 3:Let me hit an intermediate place there. Zori and I first met. We had traveled a lot with other people and so we decided we wouldn't go somewhere. We've been with someone else. And so we went to Cancun, and that was okay. But we decided to go to Cozumel. She had been there with a boyfriend Name is Billy Lots of good Billy stories and so we were laying on a beach in Cozumel and it was just one of those things. Lori turned around and said I was right there with Billy.
Speaker 4:Thought and health right.
Speaker 3:Wow, just like a dagger in my heart, and she couldn't figure out why. That bothered me. And I tried and she tried to listen, and I tried and she tried to listen Most of the night, most of the next day and about 1 o'clock in the morning she said something I said you got it, you got, got it, I didn't need her to do anything. I didn't need her to change anything.
Speaker 3:I just needed her to hear and understand, yeah and I think our goal has to be being heard, but that's not enough, just because the conventional wisdom is say it back. What I'm hearing is you can, you can pare it back the words, but you may not get the understanding.
Speaker 3:Even the scripture says above all, seek go after wisdom, but above all seek understanding. That has to be our goal as the listener is to be able to stay with it until I understand what it is you're saying. Don't pick you apart for what you're saying. Stay in it until I really understand where you're coming from, and then we can go to solution.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good. You know, Pastor Lori, I remember and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think years ago you shared with me when I called you. One of those times you said that whenever you get into conflict with your husband, you are imagining the enemy behind him. Was that you? Well, yeah I've actually I've said that before. I don't know if it was me that said it to you, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:The enemy is right back there whispering in your ear.
Speaker 2:He's, he's just trying to tantalize you, um, because that's not who you're, but that's not who you're fighting that's right and I think you made a great point because I think it's so important to know really who you're fighting and to really value the unity that is between you two. Excuse me, you know, sometimes when you hit and you're hitting in marriage consistently, I think that head of unforgiveness can rise up. Can you talk a little bit about just how that can really damage the relationship when you are staying in a place of unforgiveness and not really forgiving your spouse and moving on?
Speaker 4:That is so important. Go ahead.
Speaker 3:Well, what really motivates me is the Bible says what Jesus was talking, and it was right after he taught his disciples how to pray, and in there the verse says forgive your trespasses as you forgive those who trespass against you. And then Jesus said the very next verse after that. I think he needed to clarify that prayer, and what he said was if you don't forgive, my Father in heaven won't forgive you.
Speaker 3:That's massive, and I'm not trying to theologically impact this, but you can go to Mark, chapter 11, and it says when you stand praying, forgive, intimating that your prayers might not be heard. You go to Matthew 5, and it says when you bring your gifts to the altar, go and be reconciled to someone you have unforgiveness, and then come back and offer your gifts, indicating it may affect your finances. And finally, matthew 18 talks about the servant that owed his master a ton of money and the master was going to sell him into slavery. And he forgave the debt. And that guy went to another servant under him and threw him into prison because he couldn't pay a debt. The master came back and said after I forgave you and now look what you've done, so he reinstated the debt.
Speaker 3:I don't know how you unpack that, but it would seem to me that the Lord reserves the right to put back at your feet everything he's forgiven you for if you don't forgive and it sets us free, it's us. Yeah, the other person doesn't win. It sets us free because we forgive. That load lifts off of us and it's not something that somebody's trying to get us to do. That's bad. It gives us all the freedom in the world.
Speaker 3:I was the poster child. I measured time by bad things that had happened to me all the time in my life and when I finally figured out how to forgive and we have a process we walk people through, but when I figured out how to forgive, it set me free in an unbelievable way.
Speaker 4:You know, and probably many of your listeners have heard, that unforgiveness is like drinking poison expecting the other person to die.
Speaker 4:I think that that's really amazingly true, because the more unforgiveness that we stack up, the sicker we become. There's a lot of new research out about what happens to the body, the memory, the muscle memory, and what's happening in the body and how people are sick because of living in that state of unforgiveness, and I just think that it's so important. And I heard the other day I thought this was really a great visual you know, when you, when you've got unforgiveness, have you ever seen one of those big, big church bells that have the rope on them?
Speaker 2:that's right. Yes, so that it's so.
Speaker 4:So you're holding on to that unforgiveness and because you're holding on to that rope, but what happens is that when you ring that bell, the bell is really, really loud, but when you let go of the rope, what happens?
Speaker 4:The sound becomes less and less and less and less and less, until you hear it no more. And that's a lot of what you know. When you forgive someone, what happens? Because people say, well, I, you know, I just, I still feel it, I still feel it. But I feel we can think about that bell and how that bell magnifies and rings, feel it, but I feel we can think about that bell and how that bell magnifies and rings. But when you let go of the rope, when you cut that rope or let go of the rope and forgive somebody, that bell will just ring slowly but then eventually it will go away. And that's really how forgiveness works, if it's true forgiveness if you've really forgiven someone from the heart works, if it's true forgiveness, if you've really forgiven someone from your heart.
Speaker 1:That really does work. I love that visual. What do you guys say to somebody that's holding on to the rope? How do you let go of it, practically speaking? I mean a lot of times I just let go of the rope. But people that struggle with that, how do you practically say I'm gonna stop tugging on that rope?
Speaker 3:and that has been their norm yeah, yeah, that's their way of dealing with yeah sure I think one of the problems is we take the scripture literally and and on the left side of our brain, that's our cognitive side, and so we're obedient, and so I say I forgave you and I mean it, and I want to walk away from it and I'm able to put it away, but all we did was put a layer of cement on it.
Speaker 3:And then it boils and it pops up again and we put a bigger layer and we've left that right side of our brain where all of the trauma is, where all of the emotion is. We've left that intact, and so it's still rumbling around over here.
Speaker 3:And so we have to do something that's called an episodic event. We take this side of the brain, we connect it with this side of the brain, the obedient side, a method for dealing with the pain and the trauma that we've been through. And we put that together and we have a process for that. We lay it in at the foot of the cross.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 3:But it's a process. I'll just say it fast. We have a person write a letter and they write a letter and it's a mean letter. It's everything that that other person has done. They're never going to mail it, but they just they verbally throw up on a piece of paper it's called lament.
Speaker 4:We see dav David throughout the psalms the real, you know. Destroy my enemies. Do this, you know.
Speaker 3:And the second part of the letter is and then you just kind of just take a breath and now I forgive you. I forgive you for this. You put it in categories for this, for this, for this, for this. And then the third part of the letter is I say, Larry, I forgive you for carrying this around for so long and allowing it to mess up your life. The next part is now Lord Jesus, I ask that you forgive me. You told me to forgive and I haven't been obedient.
Speaker 3:And the fifth part of the letter is and now I bless you, Now that I've forgiven you.
Speaker 3:I bless you in the following ways, and the last part of the letter is Now that I've forgiven you, I bless you in the following ways and the last part of the letter is now that I've forgiven and been forgiven, my life will be different in the following ways.
Speaker 3:And then what we do is we just have something called an empty chair and they take that person and set them in a chair and I read them the letter, and it's just three sentences in. They're there, and you let all the emotion come out. And when you finish with it, then you just stop and then you look at them again and say now I forgive you, I forgive you for this and this. Then I put me in the chair Larry, I forgive you for messing up your life and not getting this out. And then it's a prayer Lord Jesus, Heavenly Father, hey, forgive me, you gave me the route I haven't taken it. Just ask that you forgive me. And then now I feel like blessing you. I bless you in the following ways and then now what's the action part of this? How?
Speaker 4:have I forgiven and been forgiven.
Speaker 3:How is this going to change my life? And then, so you think, what if I can't be a victim anymore? What does that mean to me? You know I have to. If, uh if, the man at the pool of bethesda, you know, jesus, asked him and he said do you want to be healed? He didn't answer him, he just said there's no one here to put me in the water.
Speaker 3:Angel trouble, trouble the waters. But he never answered the question. He didn't say yes, I would like to, or no. And that's the question Do you want to be healed? Because it's going to require something from you. If you let that unforgiveness go, it's taking the brain, connecting it to this side of the brain, and then the last thing we have them do is burn the letter. And it's writing, it gets it out saying, it, gets it out reading it, takes it away. And it's a miracle, it's an absolute miracle of what God does in the life of that person.
Speaker 4:I think it's important that people understand. Pastor Jay, you asked you know what if someone doesn't want to forgive? That's a really good question because we need to really search deep within. What is the cost of forgiving? What is it that we have to give up to forgive? Does it level the playing field? You know, do I just have to be right and I just want to give up vengeance and I can't do that anymore? What is the reason for not forgiving? I think that's really important that people really search the heart and ask the Lord. You know, lord, what's in my heart? That I cannot forgive this person Because there's something creating that barrier for a person not being able to forgive.
Speaker 2:You know that's so good. I love that you're sharing this because I know that there are people that are watching that are in that situation, that need that, the practical and the spiritual. You know, pastor Larry, you shared about laying it at the Lord's feet and I think that's so important. I shared with both of you too, in Denver, when we were in Denver, just an area that I was struggling with, that God just set me free and once you taste that freedom, it's like wow, you value that. You're like, oh okay, I can still maybe not be okay with something, but be free and, like you said, pastor Larry, get to a point where now you're blessing those that are around you and really it's the transformative power of the Holy Spirit that is literally working in your life and I think it's amazing that is literally working in your life and I think it's amazing. I remember I was sharing with them when we were out to lunch that I was in my car and I said I just realized. I said wait a second, I am really free, I am free.
Speaker 2:I know people probably thought I was crazy when they drove by in the car talking to herself. But yeah, I mean it's such a great feeling when you know like in the word of God it says whom the son sets free is free. Indeed, and. I just felt that freedom truly of the Lord just flow through my whole entire situation spirit. It was just so good.
Speaker 1:And I think also with that freedom that you guys were talking about. I remember there was a season of my life that's one of the areas that I don't struggle heavily in. If it does hit me, it hits me. I'm not usually one that holds on to things, but there was a situation that happened in my life and there was a guy in my ministry and Pastor Rose I don't know if it was you that led me through that, it was years ago, but I really I couldn't let it go. And then I remember when you talked about blessing people, something happens when you bless the people. I mean it's a scriptural principle. You said to bless those that curse you to good to them. So I mean it's one of the attitudes that God makes very clear, but it's very difficult, but there's a power that happens. There's a release of grace that comes when you're obedient to that. I remember I had these tickets to a division one basketball game and God said I want you to go bless the person that dogged you.
Speaker 2:And I was like, oh man, I had these great tickets I was going to bless you with a piece of gum?
Speaker 1:Yeah right, With some money, but these tickets.
Speaker 1:I was just going to stretch my hands towards her house and just bless the Lord and Jesus. I got that. No, no, no. You said something, pastor Russell. It's got to cost you something, you know, for Jesus to forgive us and to get us forgiven. It cost him his life.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, even in letting it go, there's a cost to forgiving people, and I think that's the part that's really hard, is that? Well, you know, I don't want to have to bless you, I don't want to have to pay for what they did, but that is salvation and that is the love of God in its highest form. And I remember I went and I blessed him and when I did that, that's when it broke. It didn't break. When I cussed him out on the paper, it didn't break. When I prayed for him, it broke when I blessed him and then when I didn't. I think a lot of times, even in marriages, a lot of times we can get stuck. And what I have found, even in our marriage, if I'm willing to reach out and love on her and give her what she wants, it keeps my heart clean and keeps my heart pure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's funny when you get hurt in relationships. I think a lot of times you want them to feel what you felt. You want them to feel that disappointment, you want them to feel that frustration, you want them to feel that hurt. How would you minister to somebody who is literally in that position now? They have been hurt. You know, I always tell people I was talking to a group of ladies and I said you know, it's really hard when you've done the right thing, but the wrong thing gets done to you and so you want them in return.
Speaker 2:You don't, you're, you're kind of hesitant to forgive and to really give until they really give it, until they, you really feel, you feel in your heart that they really understand how much they hurt you, what they did. Or you want them to feel. How would you minister to somebody that is in that position right now or maybe they're going to be in that position that they're like no, I am here, you don't know how bad they hurt me. You don't know what they did to me. You know, even sometimes, as I'm in our center, you know you'll hear different stories about different things. You know that the women went through. So how would you, minister, to a woman, or a man for that matter, that is literally right now in that position are going to be.
Speaker 4:Well, I think that. I think that, first of all, that person needs to be heard, and they need to understand, but they also need to understand that there is a cost for forgiveness.
Speaker 4:The other person will never understand totally how badly they've hurt you, because they haven't been hurt that way, they haven't walked in your shoes. They're never going to understand that, and so that's one of those costs that you have to give that up that, and so that's one of those costs that you have to give that up. You have to give that up because they will never understand when Jesus was hanging on the cross. Forgive them, lord. Forgive them, for they know not what they do, and it's the same thing we need to forgive, because they don't know what they've done and how badly and how deeply it hurts, and that's why it's lamenting is so important in the forgiveness process is to cry out to the Lord and to give him that pain, because he's the only one that can truly heal our hearts.
Speaker 4:We can cry out to him, we can share with him how we feel. He knows how we feel, but he's the only one that can mend my broken heart. Nobody else can so good, and so that's why that I don't think that anybody will ever understand. So the the sooner we can get that realization of that, the faster we can get through to that total freedom, and it will do a whole lot better that's good.
Speaker 3:That's good when we ask that question what would you have to give up to forgive? Yeah, and we, we, we push that to have them answer that and we kind of prime the pump. Laurie's saying some of it. The last one that that you might have to give up is that they'll never have to pay they'll never have to pay, and you want them to pay, yeah and so I asked them what do you want?
Speaker 3:you want them to be beaten in the town square, put them in stocks, but what would satisfy you? And, like I said to one lady, I said if somebody broke your arm, if you broke their arm, would you feel better? She said, yeah, we have to give up the fact that they'll never have to pay. We have to give up the fact that they'll never, ever understand how deeply they've hurt us.
Speaker 3:We have to understand and Lori mentioned this one we level the playing field. So if Lori's had an affair and I'm trying to hold her account, I mean she's trying to hold me accountable for something that I did and I say, after what you did, you want to hold me accountable?
Speaker 3:No, we level the playing field. See, we want to hold me accountable. No, we level the playing field. See, we want to hold the old grievances back here with the big guns and whenever something comes up, here they come, we bring them from our whole history and we want to fire the guns. And we have to put the guns down, we have to lay the ammunition down, and that's, I think, the first thing is, what would you have to give up to forgive?
Speaker 4:Yeah, what do you have to give up? What's the cost?
Speaker 3:And then are you willing to do that and let them come over. Well, I'm going to have to give up my anger, I'm going to have to give up and they'll just, they'll keep coming with it, and then just that's the cost of being free.
Speaker 1:You know another thing with that, too, that I always look at. When you're battling with unforgiveness, I always ask myself two things I like to always have. I like to put, I like to put mercy in my mercy bank about the blessed are those that are merciful, for they will obtain mercy. So I always am looking like, ok, all right, if I'm on the other end of this next time, or if I am doing so, or next time I need God to be merciful to me. Can I go back and say, lord, I've been merciful. You know, I've been merciful to other people and I was looking at. I want him to deal with me because I realize also I'm not perfect. You know, I've got shortcomings, I got things that I do wrong, I've got issues in my life. I've got, hey, you know what, and he's been so gracious.
Speaker 1:It goes back to what you said, pastor Larry, about the man that was forgiven. Like I think it's like a $10 million, but then the other guy owed him a thousand dollars. He grabbed him by the throat and choked it pay me what you owe me. And it's like geez, like wait a minute. All that I forgive you. So sometimes I was looking at and I realized too and that's something that God gave me. I shared this I think it was on Sunday about how, when you bless people that don't deserve it, it qualifies you for uncommon favor, because favor is never fair. So when you give people what they don't deserve, god will give you what you do you don't deserve as well, and so I'm always looking for that, whether in my marriage, whether with people, whatever else I'm like.
Speaker 4:I want to store up my mercy bank so then, god, you'll smile upon me, even when I don't deserve it. Those are kingdom principles that we don't understand in the world, do we? I mean we don't get that for the most part. Yeah, but that is just so right on that's true.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of like I have my firearm and I'm like Medea, firearm. Medea, she says, or me, whatever, peace be still.
Speaker 3:Give me five seconds in the bathroom.
Speaker 2:That'll get a response really quick yeah, no doubt um, no, but you know, in all seriousness, you know when we're talking about what are you giving up? You already alluded to it already, I wrote it down, but you're you kind of already said it, but you, you, when you give up those things of the flesh, when you give up the anger, when you give up the the flesh, when you give up the anger, when you give up the frustration, when you give up whatever it is.
Speaker 2:When you give that up, you get kingdom back. You get a kingdom. I mean, your mind is especially when you're in the word and you're in your little hula hoop, like you would say Pastor Lori, you get the mind of.
Speaker 2:Christ would say Pastor Lori, you get the mind of Christ, and then kingdom, alignment begins to set in and there's this great exchange that happens at that point where now you know, you give up that anger, now you have joy, and the word of God says the joy of the Lord is our strength, you know. And so you get back kingdom and with that you get back strength. Now you can go back, you know, after you get out of your hula hoop, now you go back strong. Now you go back with the right mindset. Now you go back with a heart that can love and a heart that is open.
Speaker 2:So that great exchange, yeah, you give something up, and sometimes it is hard, but I'm telling you everybody, it's, it's worth it. It is worth it. On the other side, my, my phrase lately has been if you don't go, you won't know. If you don't go in into that hula hoop circle, if you don't go and release it, you'll never know what's on the other side. And it's so much better. What's on the other side is so much better, isn't it though?
Speaker 3:yeah, it's so good. One more piece to it. You, you put the person that you haven't forgiven, uh, squarely in charge of you they control you, they're in control they may not even know it, but if what they did to you you're reacting to it, it it's making you decide to do certain things and, in response to all of the pain that you've received from them, and when you forgive them, you set that free and they're no longer in control of you.
Speaker 3:That's right, I was working with a lady one time and she was in a bad relationship and she was disleveled and one time and she was in a bad relationship and she was disleveled and she was crying and she was just a mess and I had a mirror in my office and I had her stand in front of the mirror and I said look at you.
Speaker 3:He doesn't even know that you're in this kind of situation, wow, and you have put him squarely in charge of how you feel and how you're adjusting and operating, operating in the world.
Speaker 4:Why are you willing to give him that much power over you? You remember those marionette?
Speaker 1:puppets strings on them, yeah, yeah that's exactly what that's like.
Speaker 4:You know, all he has to do is do this right here and he can make you dance, and so forgiveness is cutting those strings.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 4:You may fall on the floor in a heap.
Speaker 3:You can't even set effective boundaries on someone that you haven't forgiven. Wow, that's good good you're tied too strongly emotionally to them and when you can forgive them. You get the distance that you need in order to be able to set boundaries in your life wow, that's really good.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know what? We've only got a few more minutes left with you guys. I want you guys to take a minute, uh, and share kind of your. You can go wherever you want to go with this. Your top three or four things that you'd give to married couples that are the most important things from each one of you. You both might have different aspects to it, but whatever your top three or four things, you'd say, hey, these are the things that are most important to have a successful relationship.
Speaker 4:Okay, go ahead. You want to hit it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, all right, one of my most important things is something that we call needs. It's a way of loving each other, and I think a lot of times we love other people the way we want them to love us and we get disappointed and hurt because they don't love us that way. I'm trying to love them the way that I hear love. They're trying to love me the way that they hear love. They're trying to love me the way that they hear love, and we're just missing each other, and so it's hard to love someone else the way that they hear love. And we talk about needs, something that there are certain things that I must have in a relationship. I may not even like that, but there's some things that are non-negotiable.
Speaker 4:We call them emotional air, water and food. But there's some things that are non-negotiable.
Speaker 3:We call them emotional air, water and food, and it's hard for Lori to meet those needs because that's not her need, and so she has to love me in the way that I hear love. I have to love her in the way she hears love, and we teach each other that. So love boils down to I'll do what's best for you, even if it's hard for me. Teach me how you hear love, and I'll love you that way, not once, but what you have to have in the relationship.
Speaker 3:If Lori said to me you know we're going to be great buds, we're going to grow old and die together, but I'm never going to touch you sexually again. I might be okay today, tomorrow, but there's going to be a day I'm not okay and I might leave the relationship if I weren't in covenant. Covenant keeps us there, but it's one of those things. I know that I would either shut down and or leave the relationship if I weren't in covenant. It's that important and so then that may not be Lori's need, but she has to understand that one. For me she needs to be number one, most important, cherished and treasured. If I don't treat her that way, she's just going to wilt and fold up and just kind of disappear, because she would either shut down and or leave the relationship. But she's not going to leave because she's in covenant, but in this process of making a relationship work.
Speaker 3:What would it be like if somebody loved me exactly the way that I hear love? Hmm, what would it be like if somebody, if I, loved her the way she hears love? Yeah, and when she taught me how she heard love. I'd be an absolute fool if I didn't do it. I'm not gonna love you that way. No, I'd be a fool if I didn't do it because she gave me keys to the kingdom because it is the air, the water and the food.
Speaker 4:It's the emotional air, water and food that. I need to be able to survive, to be able to blossom and be all of who God's created me to be. So when he loves me like that and I love him like that, can you imagine what a contented, fulfilling relationship you would have.
Speaker 1:Wow, Without a doubt. As a matter of fact, Pastor Russell, something I want to mention and we've talked about this before Speak to also with that, with needs, about how you know a lot of times like it's funny, a lot of time with the need of the other person sometimes is contrary to who you are naturally. So you might have someone that's saying they like physical touch, but they were never touched growing up. You have someone that wants quality time, but they're a loner. You may have someone that's saying, hey, I like words of affirmation, but they can't say more than three words on a regular day. So like, how does that? How do you like when somebody has to work to be at that that the person, why doesn't it just come naturally for you? What do you say to that person then? Because they feel like, well, why did it come down?
Speaker 3:If you really love me, it should just come naturally. Well, I had a lady say one guy was talking about his need and he needs to be outdoors and recreation and do camping and that kind of thing. And his wife says what, I don't do that. And I smiled and said now you do. That's why.
Speaker 3:That's why love is hard agape love is very difficult, that's why I'll do what's best for you, even if it's hard for me. That's the best definition we can put under agape love, because this thing, we're never going to find somebody.
Speaker 2:That's just like us yeah.
Speaker 3:If we did we'd be bored to tears and in the beginning the things that they're different in is really cute, until we get married.
Speaker 2:And then it's not cute anymore.
Speaker 3:Did you see that? Look and then we have to decide are we gonna love or not love? Is not just the romance and all of the, the things that we see on tv. Those are nice and they're nice to have those. But love is the deliberateness of making sure that Laurie's fulfilled in the way that she hears it.
Speaker 4:Well, I'll tell you what. When you get married, you realize how selfish you really are, don't you?
Speaker 1:Amen, it's so true, yeah.
Speaker 4:And so what if God made marriage to make you holy instead?
Speaker 1:of that's right.
Speaker 4:Right. So it's something that he's working out in us, because when I married Larry, I got my. I got just this full length mirror of all of the things that I needed to have the Lord work out in me, because it brings out the worst in me, right, marriage brings out the worst that you have to get in your hula hoop and you have to ask the Lord to help you with that, because it's about I'll do what's best for you, even if it's hard for me.
Speaker 3:Yes and covenant is the thing that holds us together.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:During those days when we just don't want to do it and we're trying to get it right. Covenant holds us there, but it can't keep us. That can't be the only thing that keeps us together. If we can't go back to loving the other person the way they hear love, we're going to be two single people in marriage and that's never going to be successful. Yes, we're under the same roof, but we're not in any way. It's not safe enough for us to be intimate in our relationship.
Speaker 1:Well, that's kind of like the book you have right Before Love Dies, right. So I want to make sure everybody knows to get that, because what you're talking about, I believe, is all in your book, correct All?
Speaker 3:of that's in there yeah.
Speaker 1:I know I wanted to give you three, but I don't think we're out of time for three, but I'm glad about that. That's really good. What's your top one, pastor Laura, that you would give to our listeners and viewers what their number one thing is for to make a marriage work?
Speaker 4:I would say priorities. God's priority structure and the way that we lay that out, is relationship with God first. That's not what I do, it's who I am with him, then this relationship next. Okay, this is what comes next. Then, if you have small children at home, it's who's ever under the roof, the small children, and then it's ministry, and then it's work and friends and family and all of that other kind of stuff. We get that all out of order, and friends and family and all of that other kind of stuff. We get that all out of order. And we know that the opposite of chaos, the opposite of order, is chaos.
Speaker 4:If we're not living in God's priority structure, we're going to have chaos in our lives. And so, larry and I, this particular principle God's priorities are on the inside of our eyelids, they are in our DNA. Every decision that we make falls in line with God's priorities are on the inside of our eyelids, they are in our DNA. Every decision that we make falls in line with God's priorities and because that's the way that we want to live. And so it's relationship with God first, this, second, our young minor children. Third, ministry, serving the Lord somewhere in the kingdom, and then it's family and friends and work and those kinds of things. But when it gets out of order, you're going to have chaos.
Speaker 4:And so that's one of the principles that I think that I love the most that and safety being safe in a relationship, emotionally safe in a relationship where I can say anything to my husband without being judged or criticized. But I can say what I need, husband, without being judged or criticized, but I can say what I need to say. And so you've got to have emotional safety in a relationship before you can even talk about all those things called communication. If you're not emotionally safe here, then I'm not going to talk. Emotionally, safety is opening up my heart and making myself vulnerable to you, and so we can have that kind of a relationship. And so safety and God's priorities are my top two.
Speaker 1:That's so good.
Speaker 3:That is great yeah. Safety is the entry point to intimacy. Intimacy You'll never have an intimate relationship without yeah.
Speaker 4:So there's a lot.
Speaker 1:There's's a lot I wish we had time to break down we don't the priority structure because you know we hear about people that battle with um a lot of times, like people that may have control issues. Well, you know, like, well, my marriage is first, so you can't go here and you can't do this. I gotta be number one so finding the balance and all of that. You know we've dealt with people that deal with things like that and, uh, there's a lot to that. But you guys have shared that with us. We adopted that back when I first met you. You guys have always taught that, always enforced that in our ministry, in our lives, and it's reverberating in our church. We've talked about it as well.
Speaker 2:That's right. Well, it's official. We had our counseling session.
Speaker 1:That's what we have to do.
Speaker 2:We got to bring them on as guests, so then we can exhale, we get all of our answers, the people that we're getting questions from.
Speaker 3:They're really not other people.
Speaker 2:They're really us, but it's such a blessing to have you both, not only on here with us, but to have you both in our lives. I mean such a just the love that you have for us, the love that you have for the Lord first and foremost, but your heart to really want to see people, marriages, couples, really healed and people set free. I think it's, it's absolutely amazing and I know that people have been blessed by listening to this.
Speaker 1:And before we let you guys go, is there anything you want to mention concerning any product contacting you guys, ministry things that you want our viewers and listeners to know about?
Speaker 4:Well, I think the only other thing is that we know that there are many, many marriages out there that are remarriage or second marriages, third marriages.
Speaker 4:That's a tough one, and so there are resources that are available out there and we have a series that we put together called the New Normal, and it is for blended families, and I think that if because that is one of the most difficult things to manage, because you cannot have a nuclear family a lot of people go into remarriage thinking, oh, we can make our families just like a normal family, and that is not true. It's got to be managed in a different way, and so we have put this resource together for people who are in those second and third marriages.
Speaker 3:So you can get that on your webpage.
Speaker 4:What's that?
Speaker 1:Pardon me, can they get that on your webpage? They can get that on your Web page. What's that? Pardon me, can they get that on your Web page?
Speaker 4:They can get that on our? Yeah, they can contact our ministry, just contact the ministry.
Speaker 3:We don't have a bookstore on the Web page, but just hello at sh ministry dot com.
Speaker 1:Wonderful, wonderful.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you both yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Our call 303-884-8030. Right, and that's our office.
Speaker 1:Well, you know there's a whole lot more, obviously, that we can get into, but unfortunately time and space seems to always fail us. And thank you guys so much for just taking some time all the way out there in Denver to come out and hang with us here on Dimensions. And we love you guys and appreciate you so much and pray God's blessing and hopefully we'll make a stop out there soon to come see you guys.
Speaker 4:Good, we'd love it.
Speaker 3:And you're still stuck with us.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's right, and you're stuck with us too, even with the smoke, right, right right, so you gotta answer your phones next time.
Speaker 2:Bless you guys. Thank you All right. Well, that was fun. That was so much fun, you know when she said get in your hula hoop, that's going to stay in my mind. So, whatever I say, I'm going to go in my hula hoop.
Speaker 4:You know what?
Speaker 1:I'm talking about. You know what's up? Yeah, for sure, for sure. So get ready, I'm ready. I won't come out with my arms, I'm just going to go like this I'm going to get on that little thing and do one of these, and that's how she's going to know she's going to get on her hula hoop.
Speaker 2:I won't come out with my firearm.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's so much more we could have got into. But one of the things I want to mention to y'all before we go. I want to mention I have a new segment that we're doing and it's called let's get it on with Dr Love. Now listen, this is the thing I want you to do. I want you to email us info at another levelchurch or you can also in the chat there, if you send in a question, to let us know, because I'm going to and we're going to answer.
Speaker 1:I'm going to answer but we're going to talk about. I'm going to ask all the questions. Yeah, she's going to be asking a question on television where they call me Dr Love. A lot of people will seek me out for relationship advice or being in love and things on that line, so we will talk about those. If you have any questions about dating relationships, we're gonna have segments with dr love, so I'm gonna come on my little, get up and uh represent for you guys to answer questions that whatever's on your heart, about anything love relationships, marriage, divorce, um, sex within marriage, dating sex, you know whatever really. You know men love to talk about sex.
Speaker 1:You know that right so anyways but we're actually we got a segment that we're gonna be coming up soon with that we're going to do a whole, um, uh, a show on sex in a godly marriage.
Speaker 2:So you're going to be talking about emotional pretty much emotional air water. I love that emotional air water and food. Are you gonna talk about needs to survive as well?
Speaker 1:I'm going to talk about anything that you have questions about. So you call in Dr Love and you'll be able to take a look at that. So that's a new segment that's coming up. So we want to hear from you guys Even right now. If you want to type something in, let us know. If you have questions, we'll consider it to be able to bring that on for our next session.
Speaker 2:Also too. Just remember to like share, subscribe. Make sure you do that. This was so good. There are people out there right now that are really struggling in their relationships that I do believe, without a shadow of a doubt, that this is really going to help them and give them some nuggets of truth that will really help them navigate through this. So share it, share it, share it.
Speaker 1:Go to every podcast store. We're in everyone I Heart Radio, android, apple, I mean, any pocket any place you can find pocket. I think it was like 12 of them. We're on every single one of them. Go, subscribe to it. So then, each time that we do one of these, even though we're on Facebook and YouTube, you can download those in your car, listen to them again and, if you will like, subscribe, follow, share you'll be the latest addition to the Dimensions family. So come and join with us and let's get this stuff out. We've got a whole lot more. Do we know what we got coming up next week?
Speaker 2:Not right now, but we will soon. Ok, we're trying to work, something very unique out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That I don't know if anybody has done this on a podcast.
Speaker 1:They're not ready for this.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I mean, I haven't seen anything like this. So I'm really excited. So you don't want to miss next week, but we'll continue to give you details and keep you updated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've got. I have a real good friend of mine coming on in a couple of weeks, william Federer.
Speaker 2:Oh, is he next week? Maybe he is oh yeah no, no, he is. That's right. No, I'm sorry, it's the 17th, yeah, so 17th, next week, william Federer.
Speaker 1:He's a historian. I've met him on Cornerstone Television years ago. He was also with us at TPUSA and a major speaker, travels all over. He's going to be talking about revival and prayer and it's just going to be off the chain. So that'll be next week and he'll be live with I don't remember where he's from. He's down there, like in Oklahoma or Nashville or something like that. So he's going to be on with us as well. We got people from all over that are coming on.
Speaker 1:But listen, if there's certain things you want us to tackle or talk about, let us know. We want to continue to grow this. We want to speak to what is important to you. So if you want to know more about certain things, let us know. Subscribe to it, because you, even though we're scheduled to come every Thursday at eight, there's going to be other times we're coming on and then the week after that, the 24th, that is where you're talking about this, uh, this new thing that we're doing. So that's going to be crazy. You're not going to miss that If we do everything that we said we're going to do. That's going to be wild, but it's going to be a lot of fun, and it's going to be some ministry tied to it, but it's going to be a lot of fun. So that's what dimension is all about.
Speaker 1:It's all about different levels and different dimensions, and so we want to be able to do that as well. Anything else you want to take away before we go said take this over and over. Put these things in your spirit. We pray that God bless you. Be willing to forgive, be willing to meet needs, be willing to create a safe spot. Be with all the things that we talked about. Do those things and it'll help you. Listen, the things that, even though we're talking about it, in marriage, it know that you've been blessed as well and we'll see you next time right here on Dimensions.
