High Spirits: The Cannabis Business Podcast
Hosts Ben Larson and AnnaRae Grabstein serve up unfiltered insights, reveal their insiders' perspectives, and illuminate transformative ideas about the cannabis industry for people who want to make sense of it all.
High Spirits: The Cannabis Business Podcast
#093 - From Wharton to Weed: Tiffany Chin's Journey with Snoop and Death Row
Ever wondered what it takes to build a cannabis empire that remains authentic while scaling across multiple states, countries, and product categories? Tiffany Chin pulls back the curtain on her journey as the strategic mastermind behind Snoop Dogg's cannabis ventures, revealing the delicate balance of business savvy and cultural understanding that drives their success.
When Snoop purchased Death Row Records in 2022, he didn't just acquire a music label – he saw an opportunity to transform a 30-year legacy brand into something forward-thinking within cannabis. Tiffany shares how she answered Snoop's persistent calls to lead this vision, despite having left the industry for another career path. What followed was a complete reimagining of celebrity cannabis, with a fundamental commitment to quality that breaks industry norms. "One thing my head of operations likes to say about what we're trying to do is 'unboof' celebrity cannabis," Tiffany explains, detailing their rigorous standards that ensure Snoop actually smokes the products bearing his name.
The conversation takes us behind the scenes of their diversified approach – from strategic retail locations that follow a "Hard Rock Cafe model" rather than saturating markets, to hemp-derived products democratizing access across state lines, to beverage innovations based on the simple insight that "we're all born knowing how to drink." Throughout, Tiffany illustrates how her unique background combines Wharton business education with hands-on cannabis cultivation experience, creating what she calls the perfect balance of "suits and roots" – business acumen married with cultural authenticity.
What emerges is a masterclass in building a cannabis brand designed for longevity in an industry defined by constant change. Tiffany's team stays nimble by placing strategic bets across multiple channels while maintaining unwavering quality standards and cultural relevance. The result isn't just a celebrity cannabis brand – it's the foundation for a multi-generational legacy that honors both the plant and the culture that surrounds it.
Ready to experience Death Row Records Cannabis for yourself? Check out trydeathrownow.com for hemp products if you're in a legal state, or visit a Swede dispensary to experience the authentic vision Tiffany and Snoop have crafted together.
--
High Spirits is brought to you by Vertosa and Wolf Meyer.
Your hosts are Ben Larson and AnnaRae Grabstein.
Follow High Spirits on LinkedIn.
We'd love to hear your thoughts. Who would you like to see on the show? What topics would you like to have us cover?
Visit our website www.highspirits.media and listen to all of our past shows.
THANK YOU to our audience. Your engagement encourages us to keep bringing you these thought-provoking conversations.
Remember to always stay curious, stay informed, and most importantly, keep your spirits high.
What happens when you have the night shift for 10 plus years of engineering at Snoop Studio? You end up smoking weed with him a lot when the nights are slow or the work is slow.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Hey everybody, welcome to episode 92 of High Spirits. I am Anna Rae Grabstein and we are recording Thursday, june 19th, 2025. And I have a great show for you today, but I don't have my regular co-host, ben Larson, today, so this is going to be an incredible episode with an amazing guest, tiffany Chin, and we're just going to get into it together. But before that, I wanted to acknowledge that today is Juneteenth, which is the day that we commemorate the end of slavery in the US. It marks June 19th of 1865 when the Union troops arrived in Galveston, texas, and it was two and a half years after the Emancipation Proclamation, but there were still people that didn't know that the slaves had been freed. So this is a holiday that has been celebrated in the Black community for generations, and it became a federal holiday in 2021. So I wanted to call it out today, as we all should be celebrating liberation and resilience. As for Trump, he infamously scheduled a rally on Juneteenth in 2020, saying that he made Juneteenth famous and that nobody had ever heard of it. I would say that didn't really land so well. Certainly didn't land so well with me, but anyway, today is a day to celebrate freedom and reflect on how far we've come and how far we still have to go, and that is certainly indicative of what we talk about here on this podcast as it relates to cannabis. We've come a long way, but we still have a long way to go. For today's show we're going to be talking about relentless grind in cannabis. Our guest today isn't just surviving in it, she's building across retail, brand product hemp licensing and culture.
AnnaRae Grabstein:But before we bring on Tiffany, I just want to highlight two new pieces of news and then we'll dive in SB Tiffany. I just want to highlight two new pieces of news and then we'll dive in. Sb3, which we've been talking about a lot on the pod is still up in the air as of recording. This is Lieutenant Dan Patrick's full hemp prohibition and criminalization measure in the state of Texas and basically what we're looking at is that governor greg abbott has until june 22nd, which is sunday, to veto this bill. Otherwise it becomes law and that means that the entire hemp intoxicating thc space in texas will become illegal. At the same time, there is an expansion on the table of the medical cannabis program in Texas that is moving through the legislature under HB 46. And it could become law. It could also be vetoed by the governor, and June 22nd is really going to be an important day as we look at what the opportunity is in this massive market for consumers. Everybody is paying attention. The Hemp Business Council of Texas delivered 150,000 signatures to urge a veto, which is a real statement, but we'll see if it makes a difference.
AnnaRae Grabstein:The last piece of news that I'll highlight is that this week, the Congressional Research Service put out a report that saying that Congress could reschedule cannabis faster than going the administrative path through the DEA and HHS Duh. Theoretically, yes, legislation through Congress can definitely make laws change a lot faster than what has been happening and dragging out for years now at the federal level, but unfortunately, the legislature has continued to be no help on cannabis reform for a while now. So I'm not holding my breath. And dragging out for years now at the federal level, but unfortunately, the legislature has continued to be no help on cannabis reform for a while now, so I'm not holding my breath. I did find it pretty interesting, though, that the Congressional Research Office is spending time putting out reports such as this and thinking about cannabis, so I think that that is a plus.
AnnaRae Grabstein:All right, let's bring on our guest. Tiffany Chin is the business and strategic force leading Snoop Dogg's cannabis empire, from launching Leafs by Snoop and co-founding Casa Verde Capital to overseeing Death Row Records Cannabis division, with everything that happens underneath it. That includes things like their Swede dispensaries, their branded products, their hemp business, their international expansion. Tiffany has redefined what it means to scale a celebrity cannabis brand with integrity, humor and a lot of hustle. She's a Wharton grad with deep roots in entertainment and in legacy cannabis, and she brings fluency across licensing, product development, retail ops and cultural storytelling without ever losing sight of the consumer or the culture. So I'm really stoked to bring on my new friend, tiffany Chin. Welcome, tiffany.
Tiffany Chin:Thank you so much. What a wonderful introduction. Thank you so much, Anna. It's great to be here today?
AnnaRae Grabstein:Yeah, awesome Welcome. My understanding is that you're joining us from Germany today. What are you doing in Germany?
Tiffany Chin:So this weekend is the Mary Jane Festival here in Berlin, so we are actually out here. We landed yesterday and we are exhibiting this weekend. Today's the B2B day, friday, saturday, sunday are the consumer facing or public facing days, and I think it's a lot about just discovery and seeing how we can close or shrink the world a little more with what we have with this plant and understanding what branding looks like here, where it's a medical market. But yeah, so it's really exciting to see all the different brands pop up that we normally see in this space.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Yeah, yeah, I mean, you and I are from the U? S and have first built our cannabis experience in the U? S, but it's pretty awesome to see the whole world turning on, and the truth is is that people have been loving and consuming cannabis all over the world for quite some time now.
Tiffany Chin:Forever, I mean for for millennia. I mean I'm I'm Chinese and I think you know that's where. Call it Dama, like that's where farms and fields and acres of cannabis you know have come from in the past, and it's definitely been used as medicine for much longer than we've ever used it recreationally.
AnnaRae Grabstein:So, yeah, I'm glad to see that things are kind of turning around and turning on for thousands of years is kind of what I always come back to when the times are so tough right now in certain parts of the industry. It's like what I know to be true is that people are not going to stop consuming cannabis.
Tiffany Chin:People will not stop.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Yeah, the struggles will be different and the economic environment will shift and change, but people love weed and that isn't going to shift and change Exactly. So if we center on the consumer, you know it's a good place to start. So I want to dive in to all the stuff that you are doing in cannabis, because it is wide and as I was going through it, learning about what you're up to, at first it seemed a little bit chaotic in that, like you've got stores and brands and online presence and different countries and states and all this stuff, but at the same time, it's all unified around Snoop and I would just love it if you could give us an idea of what are all the things that you're working on in Canada.
Tiffany Chin:Yeah, that's a great question. So things kind of really start off with, I would say, death row records, right, when Snoop purchased Death Row Records in 2022, that's right around when he called me and mentioned that and I saw I understood why he told me that there was a vision for what to do with this brand, which was not just a record label but had become larger than that over the 30 years of the existence of that record label right, and having such a for lack of a better term notorious type of past. When Snoop purchased it, he wanted to revitalize and shed that notoriety, even though the brand name is Death Row. It's more about transparency and moving forward in a unified sense, right, and not having blue or red or West or East or whatever else, but really coming together. And one of the first things he actually said to me was he was like I don't know how to do this in cannabis. This is my vision in music, in records, cause I know what that looks like. Right, I want to be able to use web three technology to essentially provide transparency of people's work and have them compensated in a very fair way, and I'm like oh, interesting, he's like so. So, for example, I can tell through this technology how long Anna Rae worked on this particular record and then if Tiffany spent two times the amount working on that record, she would get two times the royalties or the splits. And I'm like, I hear what you're saying, I know what you're trying to do. We want to do the same thing in cannabis and so with the death row records brand, it is definitely a nostalgia brand. It's from the 90s and the way that we used to consume cannabis in the nineties was.
Tiffany Chin:I hate using this like this phrase. It's definitely a little cliched, but it's like you know everyone's putting five on it and you're maybe buying, like you know, an ounce, maybe an eighth or whatever else, at the party, at the house party, and you're rolling maybe three to five blunts. You're passing around, you're having a great time with friends and you're having a great time with friends and you're not out a crazy amount of money. Right and um.
Tiffany Chin:Something that one of my my head of ops likes to say about what we're trying to do is unboof, celebrity cannabis Cause, the, the play that we've seen, and I will say that you know the prior manager before me, my boss, was a little um also fell victim to this right when it's like, oh, like, people are just gonna love buying Snoop's weed. Like the quality is not gonna matter. We gotta find the Walmarts and the Costcos of cannabis production and I'm like, given my limited knowledge in actual cultivation and growing, that's not gonna yield the best quality product and people are gonna be like what is this? Like, Snoop is not smoking this. And even though we made a big splash maybe 10 years ago with the Leafs by Snoop brand we were one of the first market. We worked some really great deals with wonderful partners. I have nothing bad to say about our partners. The cannabis just wasn't at the Snoop level. Right, like I would say maybe at the level of the average smoker, but was Snoop smoking it?
AnnaRae Grabstein:No, yeah, one definitely, and quality, like they just you know to go back and you want repeat purchasing. You want people to be loyal, like they'll try anything once but to come back as a whole, nother deal.
Tiffany Chin:Exactly and just to make sure that we are actually standing behind the tenant of like hey I, I put my face on this, but I actually smoke it Right. And so one of the proudest moments and things that I can say is, in in the search for stuff that we were doing in 2022, before we launched in 2023 was that Snoop actually smokes this weed right. We, we, we just we worked with him to figure out like we I mean, we've known for a long time while he smokes Right. And then we're we're trying to work with the actual growers or we're growing it ourselves or we're consulting with the grow in particularly another territory that we're working with.
Tiffany Chin:This is how you have to get your cannabis grown to get it up to this level. This is how you have to cure it. This is how it was in the humidity levels. These are the um, you know, flowering, whatever else, all the stressing that you need to do Right. So there have been quite a few grows that we were like we're not ready to do a deal with you yet, but if you in the next six weeks, if you implement these differences and we see the change, so two of them have made those changes and then we subsequently did sign with them, because their weed went from B plus to A A plus and so it's always I'm picturing this like quality spectrum of like snoop levels all the way on one side.
AnnaRae Grabstein:It's pretty awesome and I have to say, the fangirl in me is like how cool is it that when Snoop wants to start a cannabis business, that you're the call that he makes to be like? Here's my idea, tiffany. This is what I want to do. So what was it that led to that moment in 2022 that you had that relationship with Snoop?
Tiffany Chin:Yeah, so in 2020, I had a baby and so I took some time off to be at home. That was the height of COVID. We were all working from home as well and I ended up leaving the company the management company that was managing Snoop at the time. I ended up finding a completely different job in fitness and technology, which are some of my other passions, and literally four days before I was supposed to start that job, like the Thursday before, snoop called me and he was like hey, I know you left the management company, but I wanted to see and I knew what he was going to ask. When his number came up on my phone and I was like what is this call?
AnnaRae Grabstein:Like I, I'm I'm a little nervous, but I know when Snoop calls right.
Tiffany Chin:Yeah. So I pick up and I'm like, hey, what's going on? He was just like I know, I know you left, but would you like to come back and work for me directly? There are some people that I've I've tried, like you know I I have a lot of people on my team. They've they know good weed, but they don't know the industry Right and they don't have the context that you do. And I just feel like I trust you with stuff that you've done for me in the past. And I was like I have, I'm starting a new job in four days. And he was like, damn, what's, what's the contract on that? I'm like one year. He's like then I went silent for like a good five or 10, which is a long time on a phone call, Right, he was, I'm going to keep, I'm going to call you every couple of months and see what you're doing and see how you're doing, Right, so like, literally to like to the date.
Tiffany Chin:I'm going to imagine he must've had like a calendar reminder for himself hit up Tiffany to the date. Like three months later he calls me. Six months later, he calls me nine months later. Finally, he's like okay, it's now or never. It's okay If you don't want to come back, I get it, but if you do, now is the time. If you don't, I need to go find earnestly someone who can replace you.
Tiffany Chin:So he actually waited for about nine months for me to say yes, and for those last like two or three months, I was working two jobs. But I did come back with him, and that was the nine month mark was right in 2022 January, when he had purchased Defo Records. So it was that in that moment, as I was getting to the backend of my contract, as well as that little note of like this is the, this is the brand behind it, this is what I want you to do, and I think it's going to be amazing, I could see the vision and that's when I jumped and I was like, yeah, I'm with you, I'm with you and you talked about all these different places that you're playing kind of at a high level.
AnnaRae Grabstein:It seems like you're taking on a lot and this is a really volatile space and all these markets have all these different nuances. Do you think that the choice to be building multiple businesses at once and going into multiple different channels is the right path?
Tiffany Chin:So I think that's a really good question, because a lot of people kind of see the variety of what we're doing, or what you might call breadth, as potentially damaging. For like breadth instead of depth, right, you know, in lieu of depth I'd say like wide versus deep, yeah.
Tiffany Chin:And I think, I think the the issue with such a I know we're 15 years, 10 years in. You know when. When? When did Colorado and Washington first legalized 2014? When did they first start commercializing 2015, right, 2015, 2016 for Canada, respectively? We're really early into this, into this industry, right.
Tiffany Chin:If you think about prohibition, it took like 80 years for us to really get into the swing of this three-tiered system of alcohol and beverages and stuff like that. And so bets are being made, lots of bets, lots of money is being placed on these bets, and 80, 90% of the time, the bets do not come through. And so this is the general advice when it comes to investing or when you're playing I don't know, roulette or craps is diversify, right. And when the time comes to consolidate in the right way and to make sure that you have a more clear vision moving forward, once the industry makes some regulations, or like, for example, like you just said in your intro, make some regulations. Or like, for example, like you just said in your intro, sb3, right, like that is a huge decision around anyone's hemp business. Texas is giant.
AnnaRae Grabstein:It's the biggest market in the yeah, and maybe in the world, I don't know.
Tiffany Chin:And it was almost designed that way because of like no cannabis but farm bill. Okay, right, it was almost designed that way.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Yeah.
Tiffany Chin:And so, with all that, we just have to make sure that, whatever bets we are placing, we are able to move forward and consolidate if the bets we made are not correct. Does that make sense? Like I'm not.
AnnaRae Grabstein:I'm not trying to, and I know that you have background in actually working with Casa Verde capital, which is a venture fund that's invested into cannabis, and so you're used to looking at deals and using that kind of VC mentality of you. Know, I'm lucky if 10 to 20% of these investments pay off, and hopefully they pay off at like a 10 to 20 X, because all the other ones are going to die. I just don't often hear about an operator thinking about their businesses that way, and it makes sense. But how do you choose what to prioritize on? I mean, you're one person, I know that you have a team. I'd love to hear about them, but I know it's also not a huge team, correct? So how do you choose what to focus?
Tiffany Chin:on. We do like to stay lean and a lot of what we like to focus on we do like to stay lean and a lot of what we like to focus on honestly really depends on what Snoop likes to see, Right and what makes him happy. Obviously, bottom line matters. Obviously, you know right, they're near LAX in Inglewood and there's another one in Amsterdam that he has yet to go to.
Tiffany Chin:But because everyone from Kevin Hart to Taleb Kwale have been rolling through and just hitting him up saying your shop is amazing, he is now trying to figure out a way to just go out there by himself without getting like usually he doesn't move for less than X, Y, Z number of dollars, Right, but he is trying to figure out a way to go out there Cause he's like everyone keeps telling me I got to go, I got to go Tiffany, and I'm like it's better that other people are telling him this than me. Right, Cause I can hype up the store as much as I want to, but when his friends, his buddies, are going through and seeing what they've experienced personally from him translated to this other location, they're like this is, this is him, this is Snoop, this is what his actual compound, his studios feel like and smell like and sound like.
Tiffany Chin:So yeah, I would say the stores, the Swede brand. That is something that he's really, really interested in. The hemp side of things, he is a how do I put it Like magnanimous every person man. Right, he is not trying to sell you a $400 pair of shoe. He is trying to sell you an $80 pair, like a regular priced pair of shoe. Right, he is not trying to sell art for a crazy. Anyway, in that sense, he wants to democratize access, essentially to cannabis, and so, over Father's Day, we launched our home version of all of our cannabis excuse me, hemp products, right, technically, hemp products.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Can I have a moment? You can say that.
Tiffany Chin:Yeah, we all know that. We all know what happens and what the difference is and everything if there is one. But essentially we're doing bogos. We're doing like promos and stuff that we might not be able to actually advertise on Meta. That actually has changed recently, hasn't it, anna Rae? I don't know if you saw that recently, but Meta has slowly allowed yeah yeah, but then they also.
AnnaRae Grabstein:they said that you could advertise, but then they also went and shut down a whole bunch of accounts, like in the last couple of weeks.
Tiffany Chin:Yeah. So it's like I'm not sure which writing or verbiage or guidelines we're supposed to abide by. But maybe that'll shake out quicker in the next week or two. But you know, like working through that and having him say hey, people in 32 plus states can now access my stuff Right. At the same time, with our regulated market partners, we understand that this is hurting them and so we don't want to cannibalize our own business or be bad partners. So, for example, our partnerships in New Mexico, michigan, ohio, california, nevada we are not going to. I mean, a lot of those states already don't allow hemp to be delivered, but we are not going to allow delivery into those states because you can get it delivered, you can buy it in the store and you can try out our amazing product for yourself.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Yeah, so yeah, that's a common strategy that companies that started in the regulated cannabis market, who have expanded into hemp, are taking, and I think that that makes a lot of sense just to navigate the complexity of keeping your partners happy and, at the same time, I think that the data tells us that the customers that are buying hemp products online are not the same people that are going into dispensaries, and especially because I know you guys launched a beverage as well in the hemp space and and that's like a completely different consumer base than dispensaries.
Tiffany Chin:It's. I would love to talk about that in a second, but, like, that in and of itself is another portion that, like me and Snoop and our team are very bullish on, just because of A the hemp thing, right, like the accessibility and the ability to proliferate it, distribute it in 32, 438, however many states there are that allow it, but then, on top of that, like being a beverage, right, I often say this we're not born knowing how to eat, we are most definitely not born knowing how to smoke, but we are all born knowing how to drink. And so, like it's the easiest, there's no hump, there's no hill, there's no barrier to entry in terms of, hey, try it. Right, like most people will gladly try a drink that is correctly and appropriately labeled and has all the information on it. And so, anna Rae, if you don't mind, like, maybe last Monday we had Snoop won the BET Icon Award and we had an after party for him, and I was notified, maybe only 36 hours prior to that, that we were having this party, and so it was the weekend.
Tiffany Chin:A lot of distros are closed, if not all the distros are closed, you're going to get the flower for 800 people, right? So instead I was like you know what? We have a thousand cans, we have more than a thousand hands, so we brought those to the party and the amount of people who actually would in lieu of a joint cause we had we still had some loose joints in lieu of a joint would take a beverage. It was 50, 50 an array and that to me was so surprising and so great to see. And there were people there that had never smoked, never, ever consumed cannabis, that were coming back for like second, third. He was like I just don't drink, I don't like the way alcohol makes me feel. This makes me feel great and calm, engaged, but not like I can't drive home and I'm like, oh, don't say that out loud, but, yeah, sure, great, you know like you know, like that, I'm so glad that this is something. This is your first foray into the, into this world.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Yeah, I mean we talked about the history of how long people have been consuming cannabis for 1000s of years at the beginning, but one thing that I think that the hemp space is proving is how many more consumers there are to come into the market if we can just reach them in the right way and with the right products. So, yeah, I'm excited about that and I think it's really fun.
Tiffany Chin:I think about my parents a lot, who are very like, no, no, like anything that you have to combust, like anything that's a narcotic. Everything's a narcotic, everything's a narcotic right, Everything from nicotine, tobacco all the way to cannabis. To like, obviously, any of the harder stuff right.
Tiffany Chin:For them. I've always been excited. I'm like I was like edibles. Like you guys can just eat a chocolate and feel it, You'll be fine, but I think the beverage is going to especially a low dose beverage. That's going to be the way to go because that's something they're familiar with. Like once I drink three to five minutes, I should feel a little drunk or a little tipsy, Like I should feel that Right. And so to have that more instantaneous response rather than the delayed onset of a regular edible, I think that's going to get my parents like more interested, and a lot of people who are in their sixties, sevents, 80s were interested in this space Totally.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Well, so I want to pivot a little bit and talk about Snoop's brand and how what you guys are doing with cannabis really is a licensing machine of putting the different brands that have Snoop behind them out into the world in all different types of ways, whether it be in a in a store environment or or in a jar and a can or whatever.
AnnaRae Grabstein:But one of the things that I've noticed about Snoop over the past couple years is that his brand has really evolved Like as as someone that has it's probably like he's a little older than me probably, but I've like watched Snoop for much of my life and gone from being a character that was, I think, like a lot more hard and edgy to somebody that's a teddy bear. He hangs out with Martha Stewart, he's on the today show Even. Even his style has kind of softened. Um, and yet I think that the brands that you guys are putting forward Death Row, cannabis they're kind of carrying forward this vision into the mainstream of cannabis just by being him, and that seems pretty powerful and I'm wondering it like how you see that and if you guys are looking to to bring more kind of teddy bear snoop brands and market to appeal to those people that see him on the today show or on the Olympics.
Tiffany Chin:So I would say that there are a couple of things I want to touch on with. This is cause. This is a really good question and you're, you're right, the brands are not synonymous, right? Snoop Dogg is Snoop Dogg. Snoop Dogg, the man owns death row records, but death row records is not the same as Snoop Dogg, right Like? They are two separate brands.
Tiffany Chin:Death row records is a 30 plus year legacy brand in terms of like having existed in the early nineties and kind of being notorious, like we had talked about earlier. Right, like a lot of violence, a lot of negativity, you know. However, because it's from back then and we're trying to recreate the nostalgia it's more around the good times of like really good West coast hip hop. That's what we're trying to focus on, as opposed to like guns and cars, right, like. I don't want to get too deep into that, but like yeah, so, in that sense, we are trading on the name. We are. We are utilizing this 30 plus year old name, which I also want to talk a little bit about. There's a reason why on our packaging, on our branding and everything, the word cannabis is not on the product, right? It looks like I wish I was at home because I could show you our vanity packaging. But it says Death Row Records and it's the man in the chair with an updated logo. Just a little bit right, his his hood is pulled up a little bit, the rag over his head and then his right wrist is actually breaking free from his restraints, pulled up to his mouth with a little cherry on the end of a J. So there's that update that is supposed to be a little friendlier as opposed to, like you know, the full on covered head and like black and white or like very flat. But there there's the the.
Tiffany Chin:The one of the other main points is that there's no other, there's no brand in cannabis that's been around for 30 years. Right Like, I would say, maybe maybe some other, like really old legacy brands or even media brands. Right Like, maybe a high times, which is interesting around that story, you know what I mean. Like maybe one of the maybe raw, maybe future. All right, like ocb or you know. But at the same time, when you think about like new actual cannabis brands, right like when you're cheaters, kiva, um, you know, heavy hitters or stizzy or whatever they don't, they don't have the ability to trade like they've done great, they've done amazing. Their brand recognition is top notch, but they created it from the ground up.
AnnaRae Grabstein:You're leaning on something that already.
Tiffany Chin:We're lucky we get to start five steps up. Right, and why not utilize something that has that connotation attached to it? At the same time, NRA, we're trying to stay away from anything to like. Snoop has a kid's show it's called Doggyland, where he's a cartoon and he's rapping about like affirmations and loving yourself and being kind.
AnnaRae Grabstein:I love that shit, by the way.
Tiffany Chin:Me too Like that stuff, like, and you see the kids dancing to it, it's really amazing. But I also want to make sure that we're confident that if we ever make a misstep, we are going to be made an example out of right, More so than I think even these multi-million, multi-billion dollar companies Snoop Dogg will bring headlines in for anything that some federal or state agency wants to smack against us, and so we really try to not do anything too like happy-go-lucky teddy bear, like fun for kids type thing on any branding we're doing cannabis-wise.
Tiffany Chin:Because we we know that, we know that someone will eventually be like this man is promoting his weed and his kids show and his Snoop youth football league and kids stuff all together and it's like no, no, no, no. These things are very separate, very demarcated, and like we want to be very clear about that. So hopefully that answers a little bit of your question, but I hear there's a. There was a schism between his current brand, who he is.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Yeah, I totally respect realizing and I certainly would never suggest that anybody markets weed to kids. That's not the point. But you know, when I saw Snoop at the Olympics, I thought that that was maybe doing more for the movement and of normalizing cannabis than anything that I had seen in mainstream media in a really long time. It was so awesome and it was just one of those things of like, like, look, look where we've come, like having having him be this ambassador for the U S internationally and what his brand has represented, I think I think it probably meant a lot to a lot of people. So it was really cool and I I'm just glad to see him out there. And I mean, who doesn't love, who doesn't love Snoop? Right?
Tiffany Chin:Yes, yes.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Well, so you know, there's some things, as I've been learning about you, that that you and I have in common, which is that we both went to business school, but we stale narrative about the roots versus the suits in Canada, and I just think that it's such BS, because I think that, like you can be a root and you can be a suit, and that that's pretty effing cool if you can be both, and the people that really are the ones that win are the ones that understand the culture, understand where we've been, but also can negotiate a deal or read a P and L and understand a balance sheet, and it's really the coming together that creates, like, the real superpowers. So I'd love to like talk a little bit about where you came from, how you, how you see, like what the skills are that are most beneficial for you, really wherever you want to take it in terms of your story.
Tiffany Chin:Yeah, sure. So most people that go to Wharton end up doing banking or consulting, so they're either in New York, san Francisco, maybe they'll go to a BC, right, so maybe Bay Area. But hardly anyone goes into entertainment, and so there weren't a lot of like people in Los Angeles that I knew I could hit up. I knew I wanted to be in entertainment because I think at the time it was like the recession it was 2009,. Right, the recession and I was like the one thing that I think really is recession proof is entertainment, and I know it sounds a little silly, but regardless of how well or little you're doing or how poorly you're doing, you always continue watching movies, maybe at home, maybe a theater. You'll continue watching movies, maybe at home, maybe a theater. You'll continue watching sports. You'll continue playing video games Right, and you'll continue watching TV and listening to music. So in that way, I really wanted to be in entertainment. Right, I basically learned with my then boyfriend, now husband, how to grow cannabis.
Tiffany Chin:I was definitely not the grower, I was helping him.
Tiffany Chin:You know, I was the worst trimmer in the world because I wasn't doing it for a month. I should have been doing it for money, but I was slow, right, like after a while he was like I can't pay you hourly babe, like I got to pay you by the weight Cause you're really slacking. Look at these guys and I'm just like, oh, but it was an experience building Like that. That wasn't maybe something I loved doing, but I did love like bucking and I loved like hanging the things up to you know, like all the other processes, the watering, the, the ability to watch things start, budding, the um, what he taught me about being able to identify, like the boys versus the girls, right, like where to look, right, all those little things. And that I think happened prior to me getting this role in 2014 or 2015 with Snoop, and so it prepped me a lot with actually touring facilities. Even if my personal experience was only out of 10, 15 light facility right or grow, I was still able to ask what everything was in the old days.
AnnaRae Grabstein:It was like, yeah, people just had their home, home grows and you can make a lot of money off 10 or 15 lights back in the day, yeah exactly.
Tiffany Chin:I mean, those are the days when you could get like 38, 4,000 a pound. You know, crazy, over the decade we saw the prices dip all the way down to about like 1,800, 2,000, right, and so, without that background of how your product is grown and produced, I think that managers, or dealmakers, or brand, whoever you are in the industry, as a business person, you lack the knowledge of understanding that this is truly a commodity. Right Like a blight, can wipe out your entire crop, like the thrips, like any, like any little thing, like it's a sensitive, it is a weed. Right Like so. It's strong and resilient, but there's PM there's all these different things.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Like you know Very sensitive weed, a very, very sensitive weed, yeah.
Tiffany Chin:And so all these little things. I remember going to a grow recently and being like because I have never seen this in a grow and I've seen so many grows there was a water, not filter, but a sprayer on the canopy and I'm like why, why, why, why? Right, and luckily I was with AK and Shag and I want to get to them in a moment, but, um, my team and he's like I'm gonna tell you in a second why we get out and Shaggy's like it's a forceful way to get rid of PM uh, powdery mildew.
AnnaRae Grabstein:And I'm like what?
Tiffany Chin:And they're like yeah, if you just rub it off you can't see it. And I was like, well, why didn't he do that before we came? He knew we were coming and they're like that's how bad of a grower he is. Like unfortunately he couldn't manage that particular facility in the time it took for us to get there and I was like, oh, okay, and so then you talked, talked a's what I mean.
Tiffany Chin:I know a lot of wonderful brads and chads. So essentially I would say I'm the chattiest or braddiest of the three of us. Right, because I did get a degree in business. I have the traditional retail background, having worked at Target corporate, but I've grown weed. I smoke every day, like I am a part of the culture. I'm a minority, right, and at the same time, like the other two guys have, all three of us has varying levels of experience growing.
Tiffany Chin:I am by far the lowest right, like Shaggy, I would say, who has been Snoop's longtime sound engineer. He has operated his own small warehouse grow. Ak is kind of like on another level, he's our head of ops and he has consulted at over a hundred different grows, essentially saving them right, like helping turn stuff around, and then more recently he managed over, I think, like 350,000 square feet of facility, maybe, maybe like 150,000 square feet of canopy in Florida for a really, really big brand name that I'm sure you can guess. So you know, we, we all kind of work together. He's had 25 years of grow experience. Shaggy's obviously had 15. Me, like I haven't grown in the last 10 years, so I would say maybe I only have two or three years, but like when it comes to the culture, right, shaggy has been recording Snoop for 16 years, 15 years now. Some of the some of the tracks on the new album, like he's credited.
Tiffany Chin:And so what happens? When you'd have the night shift for 10 plus years of engineering at Snoop studio, you end up smoking weed with him a lot when the nights are slow or the work is slow, right. And so out of anyone on this planet, he has the best understanding of what he likes, what is quality to him. But he's also understanding of, like, the different palettes of what fans or consumers might like, right. So he just gets product that we know will be on his level, that Snoop would be proud of handing to friends, right.
Tiffany Chin:And then AK is kind of like he's our rain man. When we go into a facility, when we go into a grow house, it's just beautiful watching him work. He's just like that's 50 K on the floor right there. A month that's 10 K right there, like he's just calculating and he's just figuring out like, what are you using here? Why are you using this fertilizer? Because it has it creates cardboard turps, like it's like stuff like that. That's really. It's really fun to kind of like go and tour with them. So I think the three of us as a team we're really a great balance of what what you called like suits and roots Right, and and I think that we've built such a really symbiotic and beneficial like relationship as a team.
AnnaRae Grabstein:That's amazing. And and is it just the three of you doing death row cannabis and all the different stuff underneath it?
Tiffany Chin:I mean we have. I would like to say our team is definitely obviously more than that, but under my direct leadership and our group and our organization, it is the three of us right. Obviously Snoop too, so maybe four right, but all of our partners, I consider them to be a part of our team as well. Right, the Pleasantries folks in Michigan, the Waves here guys in Nevada. Right, like the P37 guys in New Mexico. We're about to re-sign with a group in Canada, so we're super excited about that. We love all of our partners and I do consider them as part of our team.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Nice, that's awesome. Well, so you're talking about building something that lasts beyond trends, that's multi-generational, that's shaping culture, and I'm wondering kind of like, within all the things that you're working on right now, what are you most excited about?
Tiffany Chin:I would say imminently the expansion of Swede stores, and the reason why is because our strategy is more around. This is not a great example, but I think it drives home the point. It's more like a hard rock cafe model as opposed to a McDonald's or Starbucks model. Right, we're not trying to flood the market.
Tiffany Chin:We are more so indicating that if you are able to go to a territory that has rich cannabis culture or has close tie to something of snoop's past, you can experience that right so, um so big destinations over just every, on every corner exactly, and so it's more so that, like, if you're not from, like I'm originally from Illinois and if I fly to LA we're not going to, we're not going to open one in Illinois there's not a lot of tie to him there, right, but Michigan he actually spent a summer out in Michigan working at a McDonald's when his dad was out there. So, like, that is why Michigan's important to him, right, new York's important to him. Why?
Tiffany Chin:Because a lot of death row stuff, a lot of death row stuff a lot of performances, a lot like New York is another place where he loves to go, obviously Amsterdam, obviously looking at other spaces in the EU and the UK. But we're not trying to have 10 stores in the Los Angeles area, we're not trying to have one in every single state, like it just doesn't make sense sometimes. And so I'm most excited about the expansion of the stores because it looks like in about 18 months I don't want to eat my words here, anna Rae but hopefully in about 18 months we'll have another four or five coming up Nice and retail is tough and like what is it that's going to make the Swede stores be able to make it through this crazy reckoning that we're seeing across the industry and be competitive?
AnnaRae Grabstein:Like some of the markets you mentioned, um have a lot of a lot of competition in them already. Like Michigan is a wild market. Prices are in the doldrums. New York is is just like the most expensive real estate market in the world. You can't fuck around in a market like that. What's going to be the magic sauce for the Swede stores?
Tiffany Chin:Yeah, so in a lot of these territories. I don't want to say that the experience of retail is hyper important because sometimes it's not. There are a lot of customers that just want to buy their product and leave right. Important because sometimes it's not. There are a lot of customers that just want to buy their product and leave right. They see the dressing up of a retail store as that's why I'm paying extra $5 here, that's why I'm paying an extra XYZ or whatever it is right.
Tiffany Chin:But our products, at least the death row products and I'm confident because we work all these things out when we're talking about pricing with our operator partner on the retail side is a perpetual like everyday kind of like Walmart right, Like everyday low price. Right, Like we're not. We're not going to sling you left and right with sales and then full price or whatever else, but like what is the general, normal, acceptable low price that we can give you every day. And when you, when you come to the store, I guarantee you you will be pleasantly surprised by how not gougy sweet stores are right, Like they are, if not like commensurate, just a little cheaper than other stores. And it's because we're trying to draw you in with the experience, but not not make it feel as though like, oh, Snoop is getting a giant check every time. No, that's not happening. Right, Like, he wants, he actually like sends people to the store, sometimes to buy his own weed, when he knows that time is of the essence and he he needs me to come down from the Valley all the way to Inglewood for him.
Tiffany Chin:Right Like, he knows that I'm not going to be able to do that in an hour, but then I can help Like he'll be like, oh yeah, no worries, I'm going to send, I'm going to send my guy over to the store and buy Tiffany. What do they have, what's in stock? And I'll be like, yeah, this is what they have in stock. I'll tell your assistant exactly what to pick up and I'll probably go to the seven 11 and pick up some of your, some of your backwoods too, or some of your blunt rolls. Right, Like, like Snoop loves the store and he's been there and he like sent, he keeps sending people there, so it's really really, really great to see his like support backing around it. Watch this space, NRA. But essentially, sometime in the next month or so, he's going to be bud tending at the Swede store in LAX.
Tiffany Chin:Oh, that sounds fun, but we won't announce it, so you kind of just gotta be. You gotta be there and experience it when he is there.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Well, speaking of fun, it seems like you're having fun. Are you still enjoying yourself on this wild ride in the industry?
Tiffany Chin:I am. I mean, I've been doing this I guess for 11 years now, like maybe 10. And it's a roller coaster for sure, right, like there are ups and downs. There are days and months where I'm like, yeah, we're killing it, and there's other times where I'm like, oh, we're stagnating or we got to figure out how else we are moving forward or continuing our business, and so it's it's super fun, because I pinch myself all the time Like I can't, I can't believe that this is my job. Like I can't believe that I am helping the biggest cannabis personality in the world with his cannabis business. However, I just have to leave that out of my head, because if I do, then it ends up like it just it, just, it's noise, it's just extra noise that ends up clouding my day or whatever else. I just have to keep my mind to the task at hand.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Totally. I hear that Well. So I think that we're getting closer to the end of the show, and one thing that Ben and I and I know he would ask if he was here is that we'd like to talk about leadership and what it really does mean to lead personally and as an industry, and I'd love for you to just share riff on like what it means to you to be a leader in this space and what are the things that you're doing to grow as a leader today and that have kind of been helpful for you in your journey so far.
Tiffany Chin:Yeah, that's that's another great question. It's interesting to think of myself as a leader, cause you know, when you look at the face of it, I'm I'm only working with two other people. I don't even like calling them my I don't know subordinates direct. I don't. I don't even like they're my team, right, like I they're my team. I love them. Um, I feel like I could trust my life with them. I hope, and I know, that they feel the same way about me.
Tiffany Chin:But I think part of being a good leader is knowing what you know and what you don't know, and that's also really helpful when you're talking about the people who look up to you, or are your direct reports right? I know what AK and Shaggy know and what they don't know, and so I will often have them on calls with me when I know they're not going to say much because they don't know what's happening, but they can listen and really absorb things via like osmosis. When maybe it would take me two hours to explain, they can come on, jump on two or three calls and then they'll get it Right and and it's that experience is so much more educational and then they'll get it Right and and it's that experience is so much more educational than like me explaining certain things, right, and they'll they'll pick up on little things that I say or do and they'll be like I caught that and I'll be like great Cause, you didn't catch it before, but now you do, that's amazing, right. And so I think that's a big part of leadership is maybe showing and not telling right, and having them kind of understand why you do things and maybe even express how they would do things differently In the industry. I would say my biggest concern around being a leader in this space is this sounds really strange, but follow me here. When I say the perception of the industry of you, I don't mean so much like oh, how do people see me? Like I'm concerned, I'm, I'm a little insecure. It's not like that, it's more so.
Tiffany Chin:I want to make sure people know that I am not a bad actor in this space, because there have been so many and a lot of people around. Celebrities in cannabis are often construed as such. It's because of maybe some of their actions, maybe some of the things that they've done or said or how they've slighted other people. But I just want to make sure that people know that this team myself and the two other guys that are with me are not in any way. We are very understanding, we're fair. We're not trying to like grab a check and run away with it. We are trying to lift all boats with the tide, right, and so I wish other people would take that to heart, right, like being being being not just honest but trying to be a good business person and steward of this plant and this industry. Right, as opposed to um.
Tiffany Chin:I hate to say this, but there was a pretty big brand owner recently that said, like I want to get paid, I want to be cashed out, I want, I want, like oh, who did he say? I want, like Bristol Myers squid to buy me out, I want, like I want the cash. And I was like, oh, oh, okay, like, so. It's not for the culture, then, and you know like we always hear it for the culture and whatever else, but it's like you see where the true tendencies and motives lie, you know.
AnnaRae Grabstein:For sure. Yeah, Kind of underlying, like I'm hearing you say, like being willing to do the hard thing, and and I think that that that really is an important part of leadership and and it's when it's fun, it's it's not hard, it's when you have to be face to face with people that aren't aligned with you and you have to say the hard thing and realize like, oh, maybe, maybe this is an opportunity for me to cash out, but it's not aligned with what we're trying to do.
Tiffany Chin:Yeah.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Or or to help help someone else realize that that they're not ever going to get to cash out. Yeah, I mean. People in cannabis, I think more and more different from 10 years ago, realized that they could probably make like two to 10 times more working in other industries. And if you're here, it's because you love the plant. You're a crazy entrepreneurial rebel. You're trying to do something different, but you're not going to make as much money as you could at a hedge fund or in banking or at a VC firm. Yeah, exactly, you're in the wrong place. If that's what you're trying to do, amazing.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Well, oh my gosh, I have loved having this conversation with you. It is so fun. I love to just talk with other people that are building and creating and navigating their way through all of this, because it's constant, like there is an endless change and shift going on in this space, and and that's what I keep coming back to is that, like that's the one thing that I know that we can all depend on as leaders is that it's going to keep changing and if we're ready for that, then we can get through it. Not only will can we get through it, but we can create and do some cool new shit in it and it sounds like that's really what you're doing.
AnnaRae Grabstein:So thank you so much. Well, I hope that Germany is amazing. And as we wrap, it is time for our last call. And so, Tiffany, this is your opportunity to leave our listeners with the final message advice, call to action, whatever you want. So what is your last call?
Tiffany Chin:Cannabis smokers, hemp smokers in Texas, call your representatives and make sure that they put pressure on Abbott to not sign SB3. I know we are only three days before the deadline, but that is if you want access, if you want freedom of access, please, please, please, call your representatives in Texas or at least vote them out, maybe next time for people who are in your corner, for your freedoms. I would also say I know Father's Day was this last weekend, but if you are in a state where hemp is legal, please go to try death rowcom. This is some of the same stuff that Snoop smokes. Sometimes we tell him that it's THCA, sometimes we don't, just to get his reactions, and he loves some of the product that we've given him. So please go ahead and try it out.
Tiffany Chin:I think there's some BOGO deals and free shipping over a certain amount of money right now, so feel free to go on and write a review if you like it, and even if you don't, we'd love to hear from you. But yeah, I think that's about it. Thank you so much, anna Rae. This was amazing. It was really great chatting with you and I'm sorry Ben couldn't be here.
AnnaRae Grabstein:I know he's jealous. He really wanted to be here in Japan. It's like two in the morning. I was going to join the recording but he I told him it was all good and he was like I don't think I can pull it off, my wife will be pissed. Anyway, thank you so much. Have an amazing day. And if people want to get in touch with you, what's the best way? How can they reach out?
Tiffany Chin:I'm on LinkedIn, so I think it's at Tiffany tin, I think I'm not. I'm actually not quite sure, but I'm on Instagram. I am also Tiffany tin, so this is a spoonerism. It's Tiffany chin, but the CH and the T are swapped. I'm not really on anything else, so those are the two.
AnnaRae Grabstein:Yeah, yeah, cool. Well, have a great day and we and we'll see you later. Thank you, she is so cool. I am so glad that I got to just hang out with Tiffany Chin, and I can't wait to do it in person, and I feel like she's someone that I definitely want to share a joint with. So, tiffany, the invitation is open. Folks, thank you so much for engaging. If you joined our live recording, you are awesome. If you're listening later, we really appreciate leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you listen to this to help make sure that listeners like you get access to our content. Thank you to our teams at Vertosa and Wolfmeyer and to our amazing producer, eric Rossetti. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Please like, subscribe and share High Spirits with your colleagues, your friends and your family, and always, folks stay curious, stay informed and, most importantly, keep your spirits high. That's the show.
