#103 - The Queen of New York Cannabis: Lulu Tsui on Revelry, Community, and Culture

Lulu Tsui, co-founder of On the Revel, shares her journey from Bloomberg to becoming the "Queen of New York Cannabis" and how she's building authentic community in the East Coast market. She reveals how New York's cannabis industry has developed its own unique business culture focused on directness, accountability, and community standards.

• Raised in Eugene, Oregon by cannabis-friendly "aunties and uncles" after moving from communist China in 1979
• Started in tech in 1994, worked with Bloomberg and other major companies before entering cannabis
• Co-founded On the Revel with Jacoby Holland to create inclusive cannabis industry events
• New York cannabis market has over 450 licensed retailers with approximately 80% being social equity operators
• East Coast business culture emphasizes direct communication and face-to-face relationships
• Different consumption patterns in New York with higher demand for discrete products like vapes and edibles
• Community boards play crucial role in local licensing and neighborhood acceptance
• Maintains a "clean pool" philosophy by only working with respectful industry partners
• Building diverse team with varied expertise including legal, scientific, and marketing backgrounds
• Revelry event coming September 12th with 200+ brands and 400+ retail buyers
• Planning to launch psychedelics conference in 2026

Join us at Revelry in New York to experience the East Coast cannabis industry firsthand and witness the incredible community that's been built.

--
High Spirits is brought to you by Vertosa and Wolf Meyer.

Your hosts are Ben Larson and AnnaRae Grabstein.

Follow High Spirits on LinkedIn.

We'd love to hear your thoughts. Who would you like to see on the show? What topics would you like to have us cover?

Visit our website www.highspirits.media and listen to all of our past shows.

THANK YOU to our audience. Your engagement encourages us to keep bringing you these thought-provoking conversations.

Remember to always stay curious, stay informed, and most importantly, keep your spirits high.

Chapters

• 0:19 Welcome to High Spirits Episode 103
• 8:50 Lulu Tsui's Journey from China to Cannabis
• 17:49 On The Revel: Building Community in NYC
• 24:35 The Real Truth About New York's Cannabis Market
• 31:30 New York Business Culture and Consumer Habits
• 39:22 The "F*ck Yes or F*ck No" Business Philosophy
• 44:01 Revelry Event Details and Psychedelics Conference

Transcript

Lulu Tsui: 0:00

I respect however you want to run your house, your company, and if you treat your people like shit, good luck to you. But do not bring that into our pool. Like our pool is kind of clean right now, Don't come pissing it. Please don't do that.

Ben Larson: 0:19

Hey everybody, welcome to episode 103 of High Spirits. I'm Ben Larson and with me, as always, is Anna Rae Grabstein. We're recording Tuesday, august 26, 2025. We've got another great show for you today. We have Lulu Sway coming on the show Gonna throw it down for the New Yorkers in the crew West Coast versus East Coast. We'll see what's going on with that, but before we get there, All of All of All, of Anna Rae how are you doing? How's your week going?

AnnaRae Grabstein: 0:52

My week is great. It feels like it just got started. It's my brother's birthday today. I don't think he ever listens, but I'm just going to give him a shout out Happy birthday. I'm going to go surprise him later. Later this afternoon I got him this really incredible velour jumpsuit that I'm pretty excited to give him as a gift is he a velour jumpsuit type of guy, or is this just like a?

AnnaRae Grabstein: 1:16

no, not at all. He's an engineer and I feel like he needs some velour jumpsuit in his life, so I don't need to make sure that he has one. Yeah, how about you? What's going on in your world?

Ben Larson: 1:30

You know, kids went back to school, so that was great. My life can somewhat feel back to normal. You said it feels like the beginning of the week. For me it just feels like we're in a long week already. Yesterday was just long. There's a lot of news that's dropping politically already. Yesterday it was just long. There's a lot of news that's dropping politically. State of california is just not a fun place to be if you're in cannabis or hemp, and the state legislature continues to run amok and so, yeah, it's like the highest highs and the lowest lows all at the same time, like just like two planes living on them simultaneously the highest highs and the lowest lows is such a resonant theme, I feel it as well.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 2:09

It's. It's pretty wild in this industry, I think, how normal we've, how much we've normalized the roller coaster, all of us. If you're still in it like you, just have to be able to ride it out, yeah, and get, get kind of get through those big humps there's been occasionally times where we brought on some new employees from outside the industry and it's literally like two or three months like.

Ben Larson: 2:30

I'm sorry, I think I've made a terrible mistake.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 2:35

Well, let's jump into a little bit of news. There is a really interesting draft bill to regulate hemp products that's being socialized around the industry and around the internet. It has not been formally introduced, but it is out there and it's Representative Morgan Griffith from Virginia. He's a Republican congressman and it regulates hemp specifically, not cannabis. More broadly, it does things like formally permit hemp-derived products including beverages and other oral and inhalable products. It would ban additives like alcohol, caffeine, nicotine and melatonin. It would mandate HHS to set milligram limits for products within three years or default limits would kick in. What do you think about this? You following this news?

Ben Larson: 3:28

Well, I mean, I'm glad to hear this rumor because it's not official. You said right. So I heard about a Griffith bill, I think a year plus ago, you know when when all this started going down with the farm bill and appropriations the first time around. So it's good to hear that it might be coming back. But I'm going to fast forward to the end. I just don't like the idea of things defaulting to the inaction of the FDA or HHS. I just think that they have proven for decades that they are ineffective and don't act like CBD is still not allowed in food. Folks Like that's a thing. I just don't know how to reconcile that Like the hope that HHS or FDA, even under RFK Jr, I just don't imagine it getting any better.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 4:17

Yeah.

Ben Larson: 4:17

I'm not excited about it Because I think some of those limits, especially the THC limits, are quite low.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 4:23

Yeah, it has very low THC limits for sure. I mean, I think too that this really seems like it's broadly a cannabinoid legalization bill, but by focusing on hemp, lawmakers are ignoring the existing tension that already exists with state licensed cannabis businesses, and I think, if they're going to do some sort of broad legalization through Congress, that they should be looking at more of a one plant initiative, which is what we've talked about here before at Cannabinoids Broadly, and not out and locking out the existing state licensed cannabis businesses, just really muddying the waters even more by by further creating a legal pathway for hemp and not doing anything for cannabis. It's just so, so messy, yeah the.

Ben Larson: 5:14

The perpetual cluttering of and layering of legislation is just getting absurd, right and like. We're witnessing this at the federal level. We're witnessing this at the federal level or witnessing this at the state level? You know, states like California with the, the AB Assembly Bill eight effort trying to a rewrite the definition of hemp. So instead of the origin defining hemp, it's basically if it has point three, percent THC or below and originated from hemp, then it's considered hemp. Anything above, at any point in the supply chain, is cannabis. So all of a sudden it's like okay, I see what they're trying to do. This is a way for them to funnel it into the purview of the DCC. I was in Sacramento recently. I saw some new amendments circulating eight months into the process, mind you, new amendments that completely changed the intention of the bill. The bill was originally intended to allow for some hemp-derived minor cannabinoids to enter the cannabis supply chain so that we can continue to enjoy products that have a mix of THC, cbn, thcv you know more nuanced products.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 6:25

The regulated supply chain doesn't produce those cannabinoids anymore.

Ben Larson: 6:30

No, but there's certain contingents of growers and operators that like to claim that it's going to kill their business if you allow for these minor cannabinoids to enter the fray. Like I'm sorry. Try to go out and acquire metric CBD and compare that to the price of CBD in the open marketplace, Like it's absurd. So these recent amendments would essentially ban hemp extracts and hemp finished form products from entering the state. So it's a hemp bill to promote hemp growing in California, but if those hemp plants or their extracts at any point exceed 0.3% THC will be considered cannabis. It's a bullshit bill. Now. It was originally sponsored by CCIA and I think folks like Akiva, and so it's like it's completely just lost the thread and that is Sacramento politics at this point in time.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 7:29

Well, Gavin Newsom is very busy trolling Donald Trump and gerrymandering.

Ben Larson: 7:36

I was up there. All anyone talked about was gerrymandering. I'm just like, oh my God, what a circus.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 7:42

All right. Well, let's leave California on the table for now. We are going to talk about one more story and then we'll bring on Lulu. So we've got prohibitionists in the federal government and all around DC.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 8:05

Recently, there was a broad coalition of anti-drug and religious groups that were led by Kevin Sabet, who sent a letter to Trump urging him to oppose marijuana rescheduling. But interestingly, and what I wanted to bring to the table, is that one of the notable signatories is the DEA Employees Association, the Federal Narcotic Agents, which represents the DEA personnel, the very agency currently reviewing the rescheduling process, and they are saying that Trump should oppose it. And the letter doesn't admit that keeping cannabis criminalized protects their jobs. Instead, it leans on old arguments saying that marijuana has no medical value, that rescheduling would give dispensaries, who are actually street dealers, $2 billion of tax breaks, and that international cartels would somehow benefit from these federal deductions. But to me, I see that the real conflict is that fewer cannabis arrests means less job security for these agents. So, rather than embracing rescheduling as a way to free up resources to fight genuinely harmful crime, they're using fear tactics to preserve prohibition and protect their budgets.

Ben Larson: 9:12

This is this is the exact same strategy that they implemented to criminalize weed back in the 1920s and 1930s. Right Like this was the playbooks like oh, we lost alcohol prohibition, so how do we spend our time and money? Let's criminalize weed. So it's the same playbook and it's so transparent, but it's happening everywhere. And not to bring it back to California. But every conversation I'm in in Sacramento I hear about DCC's opinion and I'm like DCC's a regulator. They're there to regulate the laws that are handed to them. The fact that they have opinions makes me just so infuriated with politics in general, and this is just another case. When you said letter in DC, I thought you were going to talk about Attach and their letter. That caused the whole kerfuffle with our friends at CanRA and the FDA, with their personal information being socialized, but I'll leave that aside, yeah.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 10:07

I mean, it's one of these things where we are constantly reminded that kind of economic influences have a huge kind of outsized relationship to the way that policy moves. Outsized relationship to the way that policy moves. And it came up a lot in early drug reform movement when you had the Corrections Officers Association fighting against drug policy reform, and it was really because there was a lot of small communities that had these huge, massive prisons built in them and they depend on those jobs to keep their towns alive, and so in order to keep the prison open, you need to keep criminalizing people and we just create these terrible feedback loops in our society sometimes that reinforce the wrong things, and unwinding them is often a lot more complicated than just doing the sensible policy change. But that seems so obvious, right?

Ben Larson: 11:08

Yeah, yeah. Well, one state that is not free of challenging politics and policy is New York, and so I'm excited to jump into our show today.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 11:20

Yes, today's guest is Lulu Sui, co-founder and chief experience officer on the Revel, the company behind Revelry, which is an event that's coming up that we're going to hear about today, and Lulu has expertise in experience, design and user experience. She's worked with major companies like Bloomberg and MasterCard and Johns Hopkins building software platforms and tools, but she's also done that for cannabis and psychedelics and, through her work on the Rebel and beyond, she's been a champion for community and normalization and innovation in the space. I think of Lulu as the queen of New York, someone who knows everyone and who everyone knows, or thinks they do. But today we're hoping, hoping to get the real, real with Lulu. So welcome, what's up, guys.

Lulu Tsui: 12:08

And I'm making me blush. Thank you.

Ben Larson: 12:11

Yeah, lulu, I mean it's all true and hearing that intro it feels like you've lived multiple lives and I'm excited to dig into that because anytime I go to New York or hear about it it's like, oh, you got to check with Lulu. But, funny story, before we get started, you also have a presence in Miami. The last time we hung out was at Canadaticon, down there on the beach. I remember I was. We were having a happy hour drinking some cannabis beverages on the beach. It was beautiful.

Ben Larson: 12:40

And this plane flies by with this banner and it says Nelly and Ashanti at 11 and I was like Nelly and Ashanti. I'm like my 20 year old self was like just so excited. But I'm like ah, whatever. And we were sitting at dinner that night and all of a sudden I get a text that says Lula has a table at 11. I'm like no way fast forward. We were like bird's eye view of Nelly. No way fast forward. We were like bird's eye view of nelly, ashanti and fat joe came on the stage and I was just my 20 year old self, was just having a heyday. But you got this big welcome banner on the digital billboard that said welcome back, lulu.

Lulu Tsui: 13:18

And I'm like, wait, lulu owns miami too um, that was an epic night, to be sure. It was 11th, 10 year anniversary and the leadership at 11 has been really, really kind to me. So they're like really amazing people and you could tell right. Every the whole staff was super sweet and super nice and was very genuine. But when you have leadership at the top, you know like exhibiting really like approachable and positive energy. I think it trickles down to the rest of the staff and the team. So like that was, yeah, they're very, very nice to me, so shout out to 11.

Ben Larson: 13:56

Amazing. Well, that's all I hear about you. You built this huge community in New York. I presume that you mirror that in kind of how you build your ecosystem, but tell us how it all started. How did you go from Bloomberg and all this like software work to being the quote, unquote Queen of New York cannabis?

Lulu Tsui: 14:16

Keep making me blush, you guys. I started with all cannabis related things when my parents moved with me from China to Eugene Oregon in 1979. I think we were one of the first families they let out quote unquote officially from mainland China. So, being from the North, there's no exposure to Western culture at all. It was, like you know, communist countries were very isolating at that time. So when we got to Eugene Oregon, the people that you know helped acclimate my family to American culture, you know, babysat me, took me to the dead shows, exposed me to crystal energy healing, that went to do Tai Chi with my family on the weekends and we're really interested in herbal medicine. They were all American, eugene Oregon cannabis cannabis growers and kind of distributors, and at that time there was just all the things that are quote unquote popular.

Lulu Tsui: 15:08

Now I was raised by those aunties and uncles. So when I was curious about, you know, cannabis, I was 13. My aunt went and procured and sat with me when I you know she gave me eight bomb hits. I think she was actually trying to deter me from consuming more, but you know I fell in love with it. And then when I was curious about psychedelics, my uncle wouldn't got mushrooms for me and sat with me. So I've just had a very different experience. I think, ben, you can appreciate this as an Asian family. Being open to plant medicine kind of set the standard for really understanding that if you have community that talks about it in a different way, that treats it in a different way, even the most hardcore I called them like Chinese communist dragon parents they're open to it. You know they're like extremely conservative, but they're open to anything plant medicine. And then, of course, when I turned 18, I was like get me the fuck away from these Birkins box and hemp bracelets.

Lulu Tsui: 16:08

So I, you know, school in Washington where I fell into tech. It's just like I'm going to date myself, but I started doing tech in 1994, designing websites, and then kind of grew along with that industry and then, you know, moved to New York for the first time in 1999. The winter freaked me out. I went to San Francisco, spent 10 years in San Francisco but been back and forth with New York, and then moved to LA, lived there for six years, back and forth in New York, and now full time here since. Yeah, so I've been in New York for since 2006.

Lulu Tsui: 16:46

And then 2015,. Washington Market opened up and my friends were, like, can you come out here and maybe like, look at the software, because the track and trace system just does not map to anything that we're doing. So I flew to washington state and at that moment the track and trace program shut off their apis. So I was like I really can't do much. But and my friends from root sciences and um suspended brands and they were tier three producers, processors said why don't you just stay and figure out if there's something you want to do? So I literally shadowed them, um, and did all of their like, design and things like that, shadowed them for about two and a half years stay at the farm, um and then went along with them as they were building out facilities for the manufacturing processing side of the house and, with my background user experience, you know just kept on asking questions and learning from that way, just by observing and asking questions. And here we are in New York with our market opened.

Lulu Tsui: 17:42

Jacoby Holland, my co-founder, and I met in 2016 in New York and we were both trying to launch a tech platform and then we basically came together and anytime we went to conferences, we were just like some of these conferences just don't represent us.

Lulu Tsui: 17:58

You know it's not kind of like the vibe that we like. You know there's a lot of information that was only available and access to people that either had a lot of money or resources. And then we love New York. You know there's a big passion we have for the New York vibe and the New York energy and people of New York and how they do business. So we said why don't we just start bringing friends that we met along the way in the cannabis industry and start bringing them to New York, because New York is a very different way of doing business than anywhere else. So we just started seeding friends and now some of our friends are a part of, you know, are the regulators in New York. You know some have started, you know, really expanding and doing a really a lot of beautiful business. So, yeah, homegrown that's how we started nine years ago.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 18:46

So cool. So you're talking about kind of how you grew on the Revel, which is the organization behind Revelry, and Ben and I talk a lot about building community and finding like-minded leaders and colleagues and friends to kind of help all of us individually up-level. And it really occurs to me that that's what you were doing with On the Revel and still are, and I wonder how you went from small community, grassroots effort into putting on this massive event that you're about to put on in a couple weeks, I mean it's all about my team and I think it's pretty amazing that you know, small number of there's like seven of us now a bunch of knuckleheads.

Lulu Tsui: 19:34

We're like we believe that everybody should have access and opportunity to cannabis and all the diversity that other states are talking about, like it's in our backyard, you know, we have so many different types of people from different backgrounds, not just what somebody looks like, right, but their education, their professional history, their religion, like all of the things that create diversity like we have that here. So we started I mean, we just grew. You know, it's been nine years now so we started as a meetup and then went to like a conference, kind of TED Talk style. We call them our signature talks. And then, as soon as the market opened at the end of 2022, we held our first Buyers Club February of 2023. And that was 65 exhibitors, small tables in a gymnasium, and we brought in 44 of the 60, 65 or something like that card licenses.

Lulu Tsui: 20:24

And I just got to say, like, without my team, the fact that we've been able to scale so fast in two years without celebrity endorsement, without capital investment, without any experience in trade shows, like I think that speaks volumes to the excellence and the might of you know our small team to be able to do that. I also want to say that this could not happen without the community that we've spent nine years building with and making sure that people have information and access. So this could only happen because having workers can come together and that my team and I share the same ethos alongside with our community. So that's summing up how it all happened.

Ben Larson: 21:07

As someone that's constantly trying to cull or, like focus, prioritize their event calendar, I'm really intrigued by this show. Are people from around the country coming out to this, or is it purely focused on the New York ecosystem? Like, how are you positioning this, who are you going after, who do you want to be attending, and how does it kind of fit amongst the ecosystem of conferences that have proliferated over the years?

Lulu Tsui: 21:38

So I think what sets us apart is we are very much aligned with what's happening with our market, right? So I mean, as, let's say, I'm not a marketer, but learning more about marketing. It's like you always want eyes, you always want people to come, but as a user experience designer Jacoby is also coming from design thinking we really try to create programming and activities and events around what the market needs. So currently, what the market needs, how we started this was hey, all the stores didn't know how to get in touch with the suppliers and all the suppliers didn't know how to get in touch with the stores. So our primary focus for our buyers club we do proper vetting. You know. We want to make sure that everyone that's coming is an operator. So I'd say 90% of all of our attendees are retail buyers and micro-business buyers, and our brands I'd say probably 85% of all of our exhibitors are brands, not ancillary. So at this moment in time, our entire focus is make sure that we are creating a space to support the growth of our market through connecting brands with retailers. It might change in the future, but that's what's amazing about our team. We're very nimble and agile, so we're very much responding to the market and listening to the market versus designing things that we think the market needs, and I think that's just a big differentiator. So, um, of course, everybody's welcome to come, but we're very, you know, we try to do the messaging for our attendees.

Lulu Tsui: 23:10

Like you know, exhibitors not going to want to talk to your wife or your friend that's interested in cannabis, you know, like bring them on day two. That's why we have a day two. Day one is concentrated POs leads all day and that's what we try to encourage people to do. And I mean we don't have to encourage much. It's like if you've been to one of our events, you know, if you've asked people, like the buzz is real, like people are just in there doing business and that's all they want to do. If you've never done business with New Yorkers, it's extra, extra. You can cut to the chase. You don't have to do these long sales cycles. It's not like the West Coast where you and I can have a Zoom relationship for 10 years. New Yorkers want to shake your hand, look in the eye, smoke a joint, have dinner, have a drink. It's like old world way of doing business and I very much appreciate that. I love that.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 24:03

I love that you just broke open about New York, because you and I talked last week and you reminded me that there's actually a lot of really good news coming out of New York and the headlines don't always sound like such good news, but I think we should talk about some of the good stuff that you're witnessing and and the energy that is flowing through New York that makes it really unique and special. So tell us a little bit about about who the operators are and and what you're seeing in the market.

Lulu Tsui: 24:32

I mean it's been really beautiful Cause like we wouldn't be able to scale if our brands and our market wasn't scaling. So, like you know, we've had some folks are like remember the first one we did, we were like tiny and now they're our sponsors, so it's just been really beautiful to see, like every you know, of course it's a shit show. I'm not gonna, like you know, candy coat anything but the ones. We wanna always highlight the folks that are actually also putting their blood, sweat and tears, because all the new stuff, a lot of the new stuff, are just the stuff that we can't control. There's also a lot of the new stuff is caused by a couple of people that are usually like throwing a temper tantrum I'm just going to call it as it is because they didn't get their way. But the majority of our market are operators that are really trying to make this work. So I really want to make sure that when people see these news headlines, to just try to cut out that noise and see that our numbers are doing well. I think the last statistic I read, I think it was like almost 80% of our operators are social equity. So that has never been done anywhere else in any other market. So I'm just really proud of that.

Lulu Tsui: 25:46

You know it might, it's never. And market opens, it's never easy at. You know, my user experience side of my brain is like can't we just learn from all the other ones and do it different? But you know I have no influence in, in legislation and regulation, but, um, I just think that, like New Yorkers get a really bad rep right, like you're not, new Yorkers are not nice. Um, they're very kind. You know they will just not deal with any of the fluff that doesn't need to be there, cause there's like so many things to do. Like I just realized, if I didn't have ADHD beforehand, I certainly do now. So it's just getting things done. I think, if you're a brand or if you're, you know, trying to do business, I think it's just really refreshing to be able to actually do business quickly and I think that's part of the New York hustle that, as an immigrant, I very much appreciate. Could we?

Ben Larson: 26:45

double click real quick on the equity operators, because I have this image blazing in the back of my head from some of the OCM hearings when the rollout was going really rough and people were holding on to real estate and just running out of money. It's great to hear that things are thriving and that there's so many equity operators. Are they actually thriving in the market? Because that would be a very unique case study compared to a lot of the equity programs across the country, including here in California.

Lulu Tsui: 27:19

I think the operators that are not in the city are probably having a lot more success. You know New York City it's very dense. There's just so much more competition, like with any like local area. If you put too many operators there retail stores you're just doing a lot of competition.

Lulu Tsui: 27:41

So, and I think the success of an operator has to do with you know, a couple other things, like you know how strong is your team, how big is your ego? Like how are you able to ask for help, you know? So I mean I can't speak on all the operators, I think we have like 400 and over 450 retail stores open right now. But you know, I think the proximity thing is crazy because you know I hear West Coast people talk about like proximity protection. It's important to us because on the West Coast you might have a school or a church every couple of miles. In New York you can have a school or a church every couple of blocks. So I think, before people have all these opinions on the West Coast about things, you also have to look at it from a native or a regional point of view, because the same thing that you're forming a judgment on on the West Coast is just different in New York.

Ben Larson: 28:38

Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, the last show I was just talking about rules with alcohol and cannabis and this one applies. We were talking about labels last week. Proximity is another one. It's like how many apartment buildings in New York have a liquor store at the bottom and how close are the schools and churches to those? Why is this any different?

Lulu Tsui: 29:00

And I think it's also different the way they calculate proximity, because I think a lot of people do the bird's eye or the crow's nest view or where they just go from point to point, but you got to take into account the buildings right, like something that might just be across the way of, like you know, maybe like 50 feet to get access to it. You have to like walk around, like if you're walking avenues that's like almost a mile, you know. So it just sometimes things are just not sensible and the way they calculate things. I cannot wait when sensibility comes back.

Ben Larson: 29:36

I mean I also just don't get it Like it's like what's proximity do I mean? Especially New York kids?

Lulu Tsui: 29:42

They probably walk miles a day, like I just don't know what it's defending against, like seeing it from the church, seeing it from the school, yeah, I think it's just religious organizations and children not being in their purview, as, I don't know, it's just. I just feel like the government just never trusts its citizens, you know, and it's always creating things to control factor or whatever reason. You know, I have my own personal opinions. I just turned 50 and I'm like I've stepped out of the matrix and I think things you know, see things very clearly now. It's just not sensible and you know, I think we all come from a place of, you know, in the cannabis space, of at least trusting the consumers and trusting that they can make decisions, like the fact that we can't have two vices together at once, even though we grew up probably drinking and smoking weed together at a party and we're all alive, forget that.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 30:48

Well, yeah, I think that's interesting and I think consumer habits and products are also showing themselves to be a little unique in New York as well, when you look at the form factors that are moving with the most momentum in the market. It's not quite the same as some of the other early markets and it seems like New York's are really leaning into discrete consumption and manufactured products more than in other markets at the beginning, specifically, just that straight up flour doesn't have as large of a share as it has in other markets when they've launched, and I've thought that that's been really interesting and says a lot about the New York consumer. What do you think about the way that New York consumption patterns are unfolding, and does it have to do with the product quality? Does it have to do with the people in the market? Why are we seeing different consumption habits in New York than in other markets?

Lulu Tsui: 31:39

I think there's a couple of variables. So I think with um, you know, new York, we started growing first a flower first, before the stores were open, as a way to kind of combat a lot of the um, the patterns from other States where you kind of open at the same time and the stores are like have no product and then you have to wait for the flower to come in. So New York started growing flour first and I think we had a year ahead to be able to do that, but then none of the stores opened. So we kind of had the inverse problem of that. So a lot of folks, you know, just process their flour. So we had a lot of vapes and flour come in first and less flour but more vapes. It's like it was just an easier way to handle the supply that was happening in New York. And of course, with the extracted forms, you know, we could do the edibles as well, the other manufactured goods. That was just like a brief my, maybe my opinion of why that happened.

Lulu Tsui: 32:33

But I think also, you know, new York is, they say, one of the largest consumer markets in the world. And even my friends who are not heads, right, they're in finance, they're in art they're, you know, do design, fashion, all of the other cultural things. Everybody smokes weed or consumes weed and I think also you have a large population that needs to be discreet, right? So, like it's, it's a very different mindset. New Yorkers can be very progressive about culture, but there's still it's a very conservative state with institutions, right, finance and real estate. So I think there's a larger consumption for the discrete products that you're mentioning, like having an edible, like you can still like be a coder and go into like Bloomberg and not smell like weed because you don't want to draw that attention to you, right versus you go to california, you know, I started my tech uh experience in 2000 and everyone like you'd see the developers go outside for lunch break and they'd call it come back in a puff smoke.

Lulu Tsui: 33:38

So it's just a very different um perception of what a cannabis user is still and that's what we're trying to normalize and destigmatize is, you know, having no shame. You know you're still getting your things done and you can. You know you're you're advertising it by yourself, as I'm not ashamed of this and that's kind of what I did at Bloomberg was I spoke openly about it. I'm like, hey, I'm going to the cannabis space and and having that energy that you're speaking to others without like hiding, I think does does portray it in just a different way, and that's what we've always tried to do with with our revelry. Revelry events is creating a space where there's an amplification of people who are interested, who feel good about it and who want to share, and when you come to revelry, the vibe is unmatched. So I hope you guys can make it this year, but if not, we'll see you next year.

Ben Larson: 34:29

Absolutely Speaking about institutions and just kind of the influence and everything. One of the things that I've heard about are the community boards and I'm wondering if you can kind of let us in a little bit on how New York's community boards are shaping, you know, the licensing or the culture and just the interplay of, you know, policy activism and just kind of like the local decision making.

Lulu Tsui: 34:56

So I learned a lot about community boards via Mark Fitzgerald, who's a really amazing human. So imagine you have a city council New York does have a city council but now imagine every neighborhood has kind of like a city council. So these are the community boards. If you're trying to open up a liquor store, a restaurant, a bar, a cannabis dispensary, you have to go and present in front of the community board. To go and present in front of the community board and I don't know the exact, don't quote me on this but I do know that the community board can either recommend or not recommend a dispensary or liquor store from opening or not.

Ben Larson: 35:31

So again, and who usually sits on these boards. Are they elected citizens?

Lulu Tsui: 35:36

Elected citizens. I believe. Don't get me If you want to learn more about it. Mara Fitzgerald, she's an amazing human. She's also been, you know, working with the community boards to set some standards and SOPs around, like how to review and what does this mean. So she's been very instrumental in just getting the community boards educated and, of course, every community board is a reflection of their neighborhood. You know, some folks are for it, Some folks are against it. A lot of times the people that run might not be the voice of the people, just like sometimes we're seeing I mean on brand with the United States right now. But their community boards are very important, I think, can be very active and that's one of the biggest differences.

Lulu Tsui: 36:17

I was talking to Anna Rae about East Coast, west Coast. It's like sometimes you know with West Coast friends in the industry like they'll be like oh, this person didn't pay me or this person was such a dick, but they don't go up to the person like you're a fucking dick, why don't you pay me? You know New Yorkers will do that. New Yorkers will be in your face about it and then they'll like, even like they'll hold a protest in front of your store if you're a bad actor and I think that's very refreshing for me.

Lulu Tsui: 36:42

You know, growing up on the west coast, those moments where, like, you see a friend or something and then it's great, and the next moment something does this, your energy's off, but you don't know, but they're telling everybody else except for you, like that kind of passive aggressiveness which is just part of culture on the west coast versus the directness on the East Coast, and I find that I thrive very much in this world of like. Why are you being a bitch, like? And you can be like well, you're being a bitch and then you're like hug it out afterwards you know, so like.

Lulu Tsui: 37:13

I really uncomfortably well, uncomfortably you can sit in uncomfortable things, because living in New York is very uncomfortable period.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 37:19

Yeah Well, so talk about how that translates into business approach and the way that you curate kind of the, the relationships at revelry who gets to be in the room, who doesn't? You talked about making sure it's operators, but but I've heard you say that you've got kind of a fuck yes, or a fuck no mindset.

Lulu Tsui: 37:40

So talk more about that you've got kind of a fuck yes, or a fuck no mindset. So talk more about that. Yes, yeah, I mean fuck no, fuck yes. Mindset is essentially like just be cool, you know, don't be abusive, don't? You know, treat my team like shit. We have a handful of people on the fuck no list and it's because you came at us really aggressive in a way that didn't have to be aggressive Like.

Lulu Tsui: 38:01

I love my team. My team is the most kind, hearted, excellent, like doers, and all we ask is for people to like come through and just be cool Like you're. You're coming. You're like if you're going to a friend's house, you're going to be cool with them. You're not going to be like give me this, give me that, I want this and go fuck yourself, like that's not the way to start with them. You're not going to be like give me this, give me that, I want this and go fuck yourself, like that's not the way to start with us.

Lulu Tsui: 38:27

And you know, normally we have a protocol. We'll do two rounds of trying to resolve something. You know like hey, there's, that's part of cannabis that people don't understand. It's like bad things, stupid things, things that are our control, happen all the time. That's just normal. It's about how you can solution together. It's about how you can come and like put your egos aside and be like okay, we fucked up, we fucked up. Okay, now, how are we going to solution that together? And I think that's the biggest strength of my team is we can solution together pretty quickly in a respectful, respectable way.

Lulu Tsui: 39:00

But if we go two rounds and we're like hey, these are some of the options, like we just want you to be nice to our team and you come back saying, go fuck yourself, it's going to be an automatic fuck no dude. Like we're very nice until you insult someone on my team Like that's just, that's just how it is. Like, and again, I respect. However, you want to run your house, your company, and if you treat your people like shit, good luck to you. But do not bring that into our pool. Like, our pool is kind of clean right now. Don't come pissing it. Please don't do that. It's not like we have a whole fuck no list. The opportunity is here. Everybody should come to Revelry. We're not trying to gatekeep or trying to exclude anyone at all. All we're asking is just kind of like hey, we're throwing a cool party that everyone seems to be vibing with. Come through for sure, but don't be weird and don't be rude and don't treat my team like shit. That's where it comes from.

Ben Larson: 39:59

I love that. One of the books that I recommended the most over the years is a book called Essentialism, and one of the main tenants of that book is that if it's not a hell yes, it's a hell no, and it's just a way for us to focus our time and energy on the positive things that drive our business forward.

Lulu Tsui: 40:17

Yeah, I mean, like, if you're being rude, you know we have a fuck. No, because this woman came in yelling at our exhibitors, yelling at the retailers, yelling at me, and I'm like, bro, like what the fuck dude? Like, clearly you're yelling at all of these exhibitors that you could be working with, you're yelling at all the stores that you could actually sell product to. Now you're throwing a fit in front of your consumers. Like what are you doing? You know, like, what are you doing? Like it, and I was just like. It was the first time I had to call security to have someone escort it. You know like, in the seven years at that time, we've never had any issues with you know, like, like, except for this one situation.

Ben Larson: 40:57

Yeah, let's dive into the team a little bit, just because I know that diversity is not just race right. Like, obviously, east Coast, west Coast, asian descent, like, how do you think of diversity, especially as it pertains to building your team?

Lulu Tsui: 41:16

I think it's just really important to have different points of view. Again, solutioning right Like coming together defines a solution together. So Jacoby Holland is my co-founder. He's actually a mathematician, so you know, and he started at one of the first grows political grows in Colorado, and he and I met we're both in tech and you know he's half black and he's half white. If we want to talk about race, he's probably like what? 20 years younger than me. You know different, very different perspective.

Lulu Tsui: 41:47

Peter Mercado he is a neuroscientist, you know, and he's Dominican and Puerto Rican, also just turned 30, I believe. And then Jason Starr he is a human rights lawyer by trade. He co -wrote Cuomo's CRTA but then also helped with authoring parts of the MRTA, which is our legislation for cannabis. Then we have Saki Fenderson, who is just longtime advocate, community builder, instructor, teacher, you know production, all the things. And then Geraldine May Cueva comes from you know marketing and trade shows in terms of like attending as well as exhibiting. And then we just brought on Delilah Ware, who is our LIM graduate. So our school, our college, lim College, actually has a business in cannabis program. So she just graduated, so she's the kind of baby of the group.

Lulu Tsui: 42:56

So I'm talking about building out a really well balanced team that can answer questions like I don't know everything. You know, if someone asked me about cannabinoids, I'd be like I don't know everything, but you know, peter can answer that right. If I had something around legislation or regulate regulatory framework, jason would be the person to answer. So it's like it's building, like I always always say, like imagine if we're the little lions and we come together, as Voltron, like everyone is an expert to subject matter expert, and together we can come together and just build something greater or answer things quickly or solutions together in a way that makes no sense. So that's what I mean by diversity.

Ben Larson: 43:33

I just appreciate you using the Voltron reference when you could have.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 43:42

I'm the Voltron crew too, like Power Rangers, got nothing on them. So, lulu, we're getting close to the end of the hour and I guess I want to hear what you're most excited about for Revelry, that's coming up.

Lulu Tsui: 43:54

I mean, I just think it's been at this moment in time. It is a really beautiful moment in our cannabis history, right Like market is coming along. Now. I don't know how things are going to go in the future, but I'm just really grateful that we're part of this moment and that, you know, we're seeing the operators grow and there's a lot of stuff that's still happening with the lawsuits and all of that. But I don't really want to focus on that too much. It's the fact that, um, we have people, we have New Yorkers who are usually pretty judgmental about things um, actually enjoying things and smiling and excited and coming together and celebrating in the way that only New Yorkers do. You know.

Lulu Tsui: 44:33

We're going to have our buyers club on Friday, september 12th. So we have probably over 200 brands right now. We'll probably bring in just over 400 retail buyers and micro-business buyers to come through. Day two is our consumer day. Like I mentioned before, at that moment we started consumer day, there really wasn't a vendor days available, so our you know solution to that was well, the brand's already set up. Let's bring in the consumers in. And then we'll also have music and stage programming and I'm excited to announce that we're doing a partnership with Smorgasbord. If you don't know them, they're one of the largest food festival groups, so they're coming in to help with the vendors. So it's exciting to see some of the crossover that's starting to happen amongst the different industries in New York that are larger players. So I'm excited about that. And then we're going to be launching Psychedelics, our Psychedelic conference, next year as well. Say more.

Ben Larson: 45:34

That seems like a big one. Let's talk about that.

Lulu Tsui: 45:40

Well, it's kind of the same reason why we started Revelry. It's because you know the two important groups that make an industry happen at the beginning are, you know, the advocates and activists, and then also the you know, the scientists, the lab coats and the business guys right, the suits and the lab coats. I think all of us probably fall somewhere in between. So we always wanted to make sure that everyone in between felt comfortable and approachable, because I remember going to some of my first events, I just felt extremely like intimidated and extremely like an outsider. So what we're trying to do is create environments where different types of people can come together and feel confident that you know they're going to be coming and learning, and psychedelics is kind of the next phase.

Lulu Tsui: 46:32

You know, I've been working with Reggie from Oakland Haifei probably since 2019 in terms of that space, and I think it's time to create a space for those that are interested to really come together and get different, different opinions.

Lulu Tsui: 46:50

Like there's so many different types of opinions out there. I'm really starting to see that there's folks that are saying these are the rules for this and this is how it needs to be. And you know, you're with our team or you're not, and I'm like dude, you totally missed the whole point of psychedelics, right? It's like so excited to to be, you know, curating some programming about the things we're doing, discovery right now, so really learning about all the things that you know newbies or you know curious people, or even you know folks that are in the industry in different ways are wanting to learn. So we'll do a programming and that's something you'll always have with on the rebel events is that we will have such diverse backgrounds and opinions and everyone on stage and everyone in the room are going to be open-minded to all the different opinions and hopefully people will learn some things, get inspired by some things and just continuing to help normalize and destigmatize by, you know, the way they're projecting their energy around these topics I'm, I'm here for that, I'll be there.

Ben Larson: 47:54

well, okay, lulu, I really appreciate you spending time with us. I have one more question for you. Over the years, especially being here on the West Coast, a lot of us were looking to New York being the tastemaker, that it is the opportunity with nightlife just the big cultural difference. And then we went through the roller coaster of the rough rollout. But now you're saying that things are good and heading in the right way and it's starting to sound like that. You know there's a lot more licensed operators. What's on the horizon for New York, like, does it really have the opportunity to kind of fulfill that vision that we all had for it back in the day, or is the conservatism going to continue to push back for it? And then, is that going to continue into this psychedelics conversation that revelry is now entering?

Lulu Tsui: 48:43

That is such a good question because I think there's a lot of external forces that contribute to a lot of decision making. Right, it's like all of a sudden we have Mamdami who is, you know, really popular with the people. He's a little bit. They're calling him socialist, communist, all these things, and I think it's making the more conservative folks really nervous, so they're going to flex a certain way, right? So I don't know how to answer that. You know, in my perfect world, yes, you know, they're going to give us as the citizens and the benefit of the doubt that we can actually try new things.

Lulu Tsui: 49:22

All of our industries like you talked about the nightlight hospitality wouldn't it be great if we could work with the health department and be like, hey, let's start adding some beverages as a test. Some beverages as a test. It'd be great if we could have that for folks that don't want to drink. You know alternatives at all, the restaurants and bars and clubs. Like that would be fantastic. It'd be great for our schools to start working with.

Lulu Tsui: 49:51

Like one of my dreams is, you know when the OCM or anybody else wants to do like an initiative for, you know, a campaign, whether it's harm reduction or anything. Wouldn't it be great if we worked with the colleges that we have here Right, like why do we want to spend $2 million with a government PR group that creates messaging that doesn't resonate with anyone, when we have some of the brightest brains and, you know, doing their master's program for advertising, design, marketing? Like, why don't we give those kids the opportunity to make that their their senior thesis, right? And then you have messaging that hits with the people. You have kids that actually have something on their portfolio that makes them stand out. Like can we start cross-pollinating with all the things that are here and like save money? And just, I don't know. And that's how my brain works.

Ben Larson: 50:38

Reach love it.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 50:39

Totally Well, Lulu, it is time for our last call, which is your last opportunity on the mic to leave our listeners with some advice, a call to action or a closing thought. So we turn it over to you. What's your last call?

Lulu Tsui: 50:55

I hope everyone comes out and checks out New York. I think it can be a little bit intimidating, but you know we'd love to welcome folks just to kind of check out what's going on in New York and meet the New Yorkers that are here. Yeah, I'm just kind of sorry I'm two and a half weeks out from our event, so in my head I'm processing all of the things, but I'm very proud to be part of, you know, the New York market right now and I think people will be very surprised when they come through and just really see what all of the misconceptions about how New Yorkers are. I'm excited for folks to be like, oh my God, like that was cool. These people are actually pretty cool and very, very kind.

Ben Larson: 51:36

Oh, we're proud to have you on the show and grateful that you're spending this time. I know what it's like two and a half weeks out from an event your hair is on fire, you're running around, but you seem very calm, and that is amazing.

Lulu Tsui: 51:48

It's all the psychedelics, ben, it's all the psychedelics.

Ben Larson: 51:52

Amazing Lulu Sui from On the Revel. Thank you so much for spending the last hour with us.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 52:00

we'll be checking in soon we appreciate you guys we'll see you in New York alright, folks, what'd you think?

Ben Larson: 52:08

thank you for engaging, liking, subscribing, doing all the things huge. Thank you to our teams at Virtosa and Wolfmeyer and, of course, our producer, eric Rosetti. If you've enjoyed this episode, please stop and leave a review. Let us be seen. We need the help. Apple Podcasts, spotify, youtube wherever you watch us or listen to us. As always, folks stay curious, stay informed and, most importantly, keep your spirits high Until next time. That's the show.