Breakfast of Choices
Everyone has stories of transformation. And some of them include moments, or years of intense adversity, a time when it felt like there was no hope. This podcast, "Breakfast of Choices," holds space for people to share their true, raw and unedited stories of overcoming extreme struggles, like addiction, mental illness, incarceration, domestic violence, suicide, emotional and physical abuse, toxic family structures, relationships, and more. Trauma comes in so many forms.
Every week, as a certified Peer Recovery Support Specialist, Recovery Coach, Life Transformation coach and your host, I will jump right into the lives of people who have faced these types of adversity and CHOSE to make choices to better themselves. We'll talk about everything they went through on their journey from Rock Bottom to Rock Solid.
Through hearing each guest's story of resilience, my hope is that we'll all be inspired to wake up every single day and make our own "Breakfast of Choices". More importantly, that we'll understand we have the POWER to do it.
When someone shares their story, it can be unbelievably healing. And it can be just what someone else needs to hear at that exact moment to simply keep moving forward. So I hope you can find "that one little thing that sticks," along with hope and encouragement to just keep taking it one day at a time.
And now let me be the first to welcome you to the "Breakfast of Choices" community, a non-judgemental zone where we learn from, lean on and celebrate one another. Because the opposite of addiction is "connection", and we are all in this together.
If you would like to tell your story, I sure would love to listen. Please email me at Breakfastofchoices@gmail.com.
Respects,
Jo Summers.
Breakfast of Choices
Serving Those Who Serve: Overcoming Addiction, PTSD, and Stigma with Brian Paul
On this episode of Breakfast of Choices, I was honored to welcome Guest, Brian Paul, the President and Founder of Veterans for Life USA, to share his inspiring story with us. Brian founded Veterans for Life USA with the mission of providing purpose and connection to therapy for veterans and first responders struggling with mental health and substance abuse issues. 7 1/2 years later, they have been able to bring over 70 veterans and first responders into treatment without any suicides. His own diverse background, including being in the Army National Guard, 45th Infantry, an EMT and firefighter, was diagnosed with PTSD himself. This background and history gave him a unique perspective on the challenges these communities face.
Brian openly shared his personal struggle with PTSD, alcoholism, and suicidal thoughts, and how he found his way to treatment and recovery. Discovering the root cause of his issues through trauma therapy was a pivotal moment, as it allowed him to truly address the underlying problems driving his addiction.
We discussed the pervasive stigma surrounding mental health in first responder communities and the importance of seeking help discreetly through HR channels rather than the chain of command. Brian's commitment to sharing his story and connecting others with the right resources has been instrumental in his work, and he continues to inspire others to turn their pain into purpose.
Throughout our conversation, Brian emphasized the importance of finding purpose, hope, and connection in the recovery process. He also provided valuable information about the scholarship programs and treatment partners available through Veterans for Life USA, encouraging anyone in need to reach out.
Visit: Veteransforlifeusa.org
From Rock Bottom to Rock Solid.
We all have them...every single day, we wake up, we have the chance to make new choices.
We have the power to make our own daily, "Breakfast of Choices"
Resources and ways to connect:
Facebook: Jo Summers
Instagram: @Summersjol
Facebook Support: Chance For Change Women’s circle
Website: Breakfastofchoices.com
Urbanedencmty.com (Oklahoma Addiction and Recovery Resources) Treatment, Sober Living, Meetings. Shout out to the founder, of this phenomenal website... Kristy Da Rosa!
National suicide prevention and crisis, hotline number 988
National domestic violence hotline:
800–799–7233
National hotline for substance abuse, and addiction:
844–289–0879
National mental health hotline:
866–903–3787
National child health and child abuse hotline:
800–422-4453 (1.800.4.A.CHILD)
CoDa.org
12. Step recovery program for codependency.
National Gambling Hotline 800-522-4700
Welcome to Breakfast of Choices, the weekly podcast that shares life stories of transformation. Each episode holds space for people to tell their true, raw and unedited story of overcoming intense adversity. From addiction and incarceration, mental illness, physical and emotional abuse, domestic violence, toxic families, codependency and more. Trauma comes in so many forms. I'm your host, jo Summers, and also someone who hit my lowest point before realizing that I could wake up every day and make a better choice, even if it was a small one. So let's dive into this week's story together to learn from and find hope through someone's journey from rock bottom to rock solid, because I really do believe you have a new chance every day to wake up and make a change, to create your own. Breakfast of Choices.
Speaker 2:Good morning and welcome to Breakfast of Choices life stories of transformation from rock bottom to rock solid. I'm your host, jo Summers, and I could not be more honored today to have my guest with me. Brian Paul is the president and founder of the Veterans for Life USA organization and Brian and I have met. We both live in Oklahoma City and we had met really through. Brian has another business helping nonprofits.
Speaker 2:He's a nonprofit consultant and we had met through that and sat down and talked one day and realized that we both work in the recovery and with Veterans for Life, brian's going to talk today about his story and his rock bottom to rock solid and just kind of tell where he's been, where he went, where he's come from, where he's at today, and it's a very inspiring story. So, hey, brian, how are you? Hey, joanne, it's great to be with you. It is good to be with you too. I am super honored to have you here today, very excited, been wanting to do this with you for a while when we sat down that day and kind of shared our stories and had that, you know, just connected over where we've been. It was very inspiring and so.
Speaker 3:I am very honored that you're here today to share. Well, I'm grateful to be here in more ways than one Right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely Grateful to be here is pretty much something I wake up and say every day. You probably do too.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you are the president and founder of Veterans for Life, usa, and tell me what your mission is.
Speaker 3:So our mission is to provide purpose, connection and, finally, well, connection to therapy for veterans and first responders that are struggling with mental health and substance abuse issues. A lot of that is primarily like your post-traumatic stress and alcoholism, but everything else under the sun as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you have been doing that for how long now?
Speaker 3:I founded the organization back in May of 2017. So we're coming up right about seven and a half years.
Speaker 2:Wow, that is a long time and you were in the Army yourself.
Speaker 3:Yep, I was in the Oklahoma Army National Guard and I was an infantry grunt.
Speaker 2:Love that you were also an EMT at one point.
Speaker 3:Yep, I was an EMT, a firefighter, emt for a firefighter for about six years and EMS for eight years, and I served in the Guard for six years Wow.
Speaker 2:And we were just talking a little bit ago about all of those just any one of those careers could cause PTSD and some trauma and you were, you just picked all of them and left them all in there. Yeah, so tell me, just tell us a little bit about your story, Brian, and how you kind of came to start that organization and why why?
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah. So I'm from Mustang, oklahoma, just outside Oklahoma City, and I grew up, you know, playing sports and doing country boy stuff hunting and fishing and my family convinced me that I should go to college. So I chose Oklahoma City University and the summer after my freshman year, me and a buddy who's now a colonel, we decided that we were going to originally join the Marine Corps because we were bored. All the girls had left for home during the summer, so we were bored and one of us said, hey, let's just join the military.
Speaker 2:Seems like the thing to do. Right, we're bored.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So we ended up joining the 45th Infantry and we wanted to do the fun stuff and so we joined the infantry and I went downrange to Fort Benning, georgia, together for basic and then back to Fort Benning for infantry school and he ended up going back for OCS. I went back for airborne school to get my jump wings and it wasn't long after it was just a few months after our initial training the mirror building was bombed in downtown Oklahoma City, and so I deployed to that with my unit for two weeks and, as you can imagine, being a 20-year-old young man, that left quite an impression in that there was 168 lives that were lost there, including 19 children. There's 168 lives that were lost there, including 19 children. And so I fulfilled my military obligation, moved up to Kansas City for a job with what was then Roadway Express, and we were bought out by Yellow Freight about four and a half years later and it's just God you know tugging on my sleeve to get back into service work and I decided I want to become a firefighter, and through talking with firefighters I realized that I first had to go through EMS training and become either a paramedic or an EMT. So I put myself through EMT school and then through a fire academy and then started volunteering with Smithville Fire up just north of Kansas City. And then I was fortunate enough, with having a college degree in military and in volunteering, that I was awarded a job with Central Jackson County Fire Protection District, which we call CJC for short, and it was a very busy district and we had five stations and, being the new guy that I was normally assigned to station one and three and were there, we normally answer between eight and ten calls a shift and so through that, instead of doing things that that kind of helped de-stress in healthy ways, I was actually going home and my social casual drinking had turned into a full-blown addiction to alcohol and I was just, you know, I guess, self-medicating with alcohol and I was great at work and you know I was like a robot.
Speaker 3:I was first in last out of just about anything and and but the but that you know. As you know, the alcohol, you know will eventually catch up to you and it did, and I found myself going from a very high performer at work to a very low performer at work and as a result of that, my wife divorced me and at the time, and his son rightfully so wasn't comfortable with him coming and spending time with me. And then I became suicidal. My first attempt was with a handgun. It was a .380, a very small caliber handgun, and I was scared to death not of dying, but I was scared to death that it wouldn't actually do the job. And then people happened to take care of me if I did survive
Speaker 3:it. And so, late one night and this didn't happen, you know, it took a couple of years, but late one night, sitting in my Jeep, and you know, with that gun, sitting next to me in the seat and had a big bottle of vodka in my hand, it's just that God spoke to me and just in a whisper, said that there was something else out there, there was a purpose for me out there, and I put down the bottle of vodka, although temporarily. I picked up my phone and I called my mom and it kind of admitted to her that I'm ready for help and I went home. And then, probably a couple of months later, my mom came to me and said, son, you're going to die, but it's not going to be in my house. And that's when I finally went to English Mountain Recovery in Tennessee and stayed there 90 days, went through equine assisted therapy along with trauma therapy, and that's where I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress, which was a very important part of my story, because now we knew the why, why all the drinking and the depression and anxiety and the self-medicating and what led me down to in that deep dark
Speaker 3:hole. And so I focused really heavily on the therapy for the 90 days and there, probably around the last week, I was trying to figure out what to do. When I left and it's as though God just said hey, brian, you remember that time a few months ago back in your car, when I said I just said hey, brian, you remember that time a few months ago back in your car, when I said, hey, there's something else out there for you, and it was to just simply help the one other person, the veteran or first responder standing in front of me and fast forward. Seven and a half years later, we've gotten approximately 70 veterans and first responders into life-saving treatment, without a single suicide.
Speaker 2:Man, brian. That's incredible. That's really incredible. Let me ask you something. You said you went to treatment and you found out the why. How important was that for you to find out the why?
Speaker 3:It was extremely important because then we knew you know what to the core of the issue and how to go about fixing the core.
Speaker 2:Right, because hearing it's fixable and you're hearing from somebody say, hey guy, you just didn't know this was an issue, you just didn't know this was a problem, you didn't have any idea. And for someone to just tell you that, like that, that has to just be like eye opening, awakening, and wow, like I never thought of that, I did not know that. And to know that you has to just be like eye opening, awakening, and wow, like I never thought of that, I did not know that. And to know that you could, you could be helped yeah, yeah, it's that's amazing yeah it's, it's like someone with any other kind of condition.
Speaker 3:It's like a lot of times we have no idea, like a cancer patient you know may have cancer but you have no idea until you are diagnosed with it. And then there's the fear and the wondering, like how sick am I?
Speaker 3:Because I had no idea what post-traumatic stress even meant much less that I'm someone that had it and went through, went through therapy for it, but that's that's what I kind of like tell people now is the substance that used alcoholism. In order to really fix that, we have to fix what's driving it, because the alcoholism and the self-medication that's just a symptom of what the underlying issue is. And I I kind of use the analogy of if you have a tree in your front yard that needs to be watered, you don't want to water the leaves and branches because it's just not going to do any good. You want to water the roots.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and just finding that out and you really had no idea that all of those you know the careers that you chose. You didn't really know that that could cause that right. Right yeah, and do you find that when you're working with men and women that you know now it's a little more prevalent? Ptsd is talked about all the time, but do you still find that they really don't know that's what's going on? I do. Do you still find that they really don't know that's what's going?
Speaker 3:on I do. It's the fact that, say, like in the fire service, we have a lot of after-action reviews on how to put out fires and how to do CPR and that type of thing, but there is no after-action review on mental health Right. So people just are very unwilling to speak up because they're afraid of getting bite-balled or not getting promoted and being that guy, and so it's tough.
Speaker 2:I imagine it's not a big place of sitting around talking about your feelings.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But here's the answer. Here's the answer to that is that from the academy pretty much on, we're trained to go to see our captain. See your captain for just about everything. See your chain of command With mental health. That's not the correct avenue With mental health or addiction. For the first responder, or really any one the correct path is to go to your HR person, close the door in private and say I need help At that point and let them know exactly what you need help with, because at that point you need to go to HR. Don't go to your captain for that Right.
Speaker 2:OK, so take me back a little bit, brian. You, you started drinking and it became more and more and more, without really getting into the nitty gritty. Can you, can you kind of tell me what you were going through a little bit that kept making you drink, like what was going on with you? Can you, can you kind of tell me what you were going through a little bit that kept making you drink, like what was going on with you? Were you, what were you trying to avoid? What were you trying to mask and cover when you started with the drinking back then?
Speaker 3:Well, my, my, my, one of my primary issues was that I am a very prideful guy and I took on you know, look back it's, it's.
Speaker 3:It's really silly, but in my, in my mind, I took blame for things that I had no business blaming myself for.
Speaker 3:So, for instance, we had, we had lost an 11 year old, young, young man who had got hit by a FedEx truck and later on there was a bad outcome there and he ended up dying from it. So in my mind, I go home on the back porch and I start drinking and I start obsessing with every little detail of the call and before long I'm actually kind of imagining and making things up that how it could possibly be my fault. And even chief clop it would come up, say brian, hey, man, I watched that call and you, you could not have done anything different than what you did. You did a great job, but it just went in one ear and out the other. And so that's kind of the pattern, my mental pattern that I'd have I'd go home and start drinking and obsessing with the bad calls and then, even when we had the good calls, it was just kind of brush over that and that's what really drove me into the hole.
Speaker 2:You're focusing more on the bad and not the good, and that's why I asked you that, because I would imagine that a lot of people go through that, and so I wanted you to kind of say that out loud for everyone to hear that, because I think we all do that right, we obsess over the bad and not the good, and you know, 90% of addiction, as you know, is trauma related. Right, and getting to that root cause, like you said, is really important. But hearing what kind of got you, what made you start, what you felt start drinking, and what you were trying to just you were trying to stop the thoughts, you were trying to stop those things that were going in your head, and I think that's where addiction comes from, right, and so finding that cause is kind of what you're talking about Cause of why, why am I doing that?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so now people come to you. How do they find you? How do they get to you?
Speaker 3:You can find me on Facebook, brian Paul. I get a lot of Facebook messengers. Also our website, which is veteransforlifeusaorg Uh-huh, and you can email me through that or email through there. And then also, I want to really encourage people to visit the website and read it. Go through it and read it, because when people do, they'll discover our treatment partners right there on the website. I've toured all of them except for one, and I've met the therapist therapist and familiar with the therapy, and everyone, usually from the CEOs down to the janitors. And I like to do that. I like to tour first and be sure that we're referring people to the correct programs that are Unfortunately, you have some addiction programs that are more centered on the bottom line versus more centered on actually deeply caring about each person that goes through their program.
Speaker 2:Sure, it's a business, yeah Right. And we're trying not to be a business first, we're trying to be people first.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And I shared with you something and I shared with you when we talked, that I had been diagnosed with PTSD. I was like 20, 20, I'm going to say 20 years old when I was incarcerated and mandatory therapy and all the things right, and I blew that off. I laughed that off. I thought that was stupid, I thought that was crazy. Well, how could I have PTSD? I was not in the military, I was not. That makes no sense. They're just making stuff up. You know what I mean. I just went through all of that in my head to not believe that because I didn't understand it and I think a lot of people don't understand it.
Speaker 2:Past trauma is PTSD. Right, it's trauma related and it can be all forms of trauma. Trauma comes in all different forms, no matter what that might look like. And we talked a little before and you were saying you know, people go into the military. People come into the military to escape, sometimes, bad situations at home. They want to leave. You know women do it. They get married to get out of their house, right, they marry somebody and move out.
Speaker 2:Men apparently I did not know this go into the military to to escape whatever's going on at home sometimes. And then you have your superior officers and that kind of thing, that kind of take you under their wing and that's like you're almost like your father figure, right, yeah, and and that's interesting. I mean that's an interesting evaluation or take on that. Really I never really thought of it, interesting evaluation or take on that. Really I never really thought of it that way. But it totally makes sense. And you know, ptsd is widespread and we were talking about I don't know why people don't think of that with first responders, with policemen, with firemen, with EMT on their day-to-day things that they deal with. People sometimes think I think we're just all conditioned to think it's military related, right, and it's not at all. It's all of the. I mean, it's certainly prevalent. That's kind of where where came up with the term, I guess was military a long time ago. But anyone can experience PTSD.
Speaker 3:Terry a long time ago. But anyone can experience PTSD. Yeah yeah, so yeah, as you mentioned, it's the childhood trauma maybe mom or dad, you know beating up kid at home, or you know rape or domestic violence, that stuff. So it's anything that is normally a life threat or a perceived threat of life or serious bodily injury, and so what that event or events does, it gets our brains stuck in that hypervigilance mode, that fight or flight, and it just kind of stays there. And so that's why you have therapies like your EMDR, that takes those reoccurring memories and puts them and refiles it into the, I think, the back of the brain and so it gets off that kind of merry-go-round.
Speaker 2:Right, that endless, yeah, that endless. It's like a pattern disruptor, yeah, almost like a. Like a needs to be rewired, needs to be rewired and close that gap to get you out of that fight or flight state. And your body's not meant to live in fight or flight, right, that is a trauma response. That's supposed to happen. Release all the chemicals to get you through that moment. But it's just supposed to be a moment. And when you live like that, day to day, day to day, day to day, the moments become one one big moment, right, and we can't get out of that situation and your body can't sustain that and can't continue to do that, and that's when all of the substance abuse and the masking and all of those things start taking place, because your body can't feel those things on a regular basis without trying to do something to stuff it. So I'm really glad you're here and talking about this with me. Veterans Day is coming up and you shared with me that you just got to speak somewhere recently. Tell me about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So a little bit of a backstory to that Part of my therapy at English Mountain. My therapist, julie, part of her program with me was telling me to go and encourage me to share my story and it was brutally difficult in the beginning.
Speaker 3:As a matter of fact, I came in her office and she said, Brianette, did you share your story to the small group yet? And I said no, and she goes okay, and like a good trauma therapist should do, she says you will not come back to my office until you share your story to the small group. And so I did and I kind of got a little more comfortable, just very, very gradually, and then so I started sharing my story and then became a little more comfortable, more comfortable, shared, started sharing my story. Big, small, big groups, small groups, television, radio podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so so that's actually part of my therapy. And on the latest one was on this past Saturday and to a VFW group, and the feedback was really, really good, and that's that's how I, that's how we like to see it, absolutely. It was a veteran group. Okay, one of the things I really like to do whenever I speak is I'll get audience participation.
Speaker 3:So I asked the group who all in the group has had a friend or loved one that has died by suicide? Please raise your hand, all right, and I have too. And I would say, joanne, I would say this one, probably 98% of the audience and there's probably 75 people in the room raise your hand. And I said, okay, now, okay, keep your hands up if this suicide came as a surprise to you and those around the person. And I think everybody kept their hand up, and so I explained to the audience why do we think that is? And I said it's that shame, guilt and embarrassment. And then so we, our tip of the spear, is replacing that shame, guilt and embarrassment and replacing it with hope, inspiration and understanding.
Speaker 2:And then some encouragement along the way. Absolutely Part of being a peer recovery support specialist is having a story that is mental health, substance abuse related, and you have to share your story in order to get certified right, so much like you had to go out there and share your story. You have to share your story with all those people, right? And we're on a Zoom meet and there was so many people on that Zoom meet that they had to break it out into sections so you could share your story. And some people still had to turn off the video to be able to share their story. That is the reason that I do it in audio only, because I was on the Zoom video with, I would say I think there was 30 maybe in my group and I would say probably 10 of them turned off video that didn't want to be on video because they just they were okay, kind of sharing it, but they didn't want everybody staring at them while they did it.
Speaker 2:And that says a lot, right, that shame, that guilt, that fear and feeling hopeless. And that is why we share our stories. It's connection is opposite of addiction and we're all in this together. We have to get connected, we have to break that stigma and have a judgment-free zone for people. That stigma of mental health and substance abuse and all of that needs to get broken so that people don't feel that shame and fear and guilt because it's not worth losing your life over. It's just not, it's not necessary. There's places to go. How did you end up getting to treatment? How did you end up getting yourself there?
Speaker 3:Well, like most things at that time in my life, I got there the hard way. After I picked up the phone and told my mom I needed help. That says about two months I was living there at my parents' house in Mustang, and then two more months went by, drinking and, I think, halfway, attempting to get a job here and there, and my mother calling me to the front room and saying that, brian, you're going to die, but it's not going to be in my house. And so it was either that or I don't know. And so they actually drove me from Mustang, oklahoma, to Knoxville, tennessee. I went to Blount Hospital for my detox and I was there for nine days and then on from there nine days later on to English bowel recovery.
Speaker 2:And so how did it end up being Tennessee for you instead of somewhere here in Oklahoma?
Speaker 3:Well, that's a very good question, and my parents really had no idea where to send me and they actually Googled it and they just kind of did the best they could in figuring it out and that's how we wound up in Tennessee.
Speaker 2:And you know that was seven, eight years ago. Right, that was a long time ago and there may not have been quite as many in Oklahoma at the time I'm not sure seven or eight years ago really but I know there is a lot of good programs now, a lot of detox centers, a lot of South Coast Behavioral Health. Where I'll be working is a dual diagnosis treatment, so mental health and substance abuse and all treatment centers are not dual diagnosis. So I'm pretty excited about that. Not excited like yay, people are coming, but excited that Oklahoma has the dual diagnosis treatment centers.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:To be able to help people and people don't have to go to Tennessee and California and all the places that they can get help right here where they need it, because it's very much needed. It's very much needed and it's not shameful. It's not shameful. We all have things in our life that we go through and we all need a little help sometimes. And just you know, giving people that place to share their stories, that feel safe, that's kind of what it's all about for me, and I know it is for you too. I know anybody can call you. I've tagged you on Facebook before in messages that people are saying, hey, I'm looking for this or I'm looking for that, and I'm like, hey, brian. So you know, people need to know that there's places that can help them and that it's okay to ask for help. Someone is listening, someone's out there.
Speaker 2:October 31st for me is a kind of a rough day. My ex-husband committed suicide on Halloween. It was the night of that midnight to 3 am between the 30th and the 31st, and everybody that knew him all said I can't believe it, I had no idea. I still can't believe it. I still can't believe it. I still can't. I still hear that to this day. I just can't believe that happened. And that's how good at it people are at hiding. Hiding that, right Because it's. They just don't want that out in the open, for whatever reason. It makes them think that something's wrong with them and they don't want to share that with the world. Well, it's treatable, it's fixable, it's treatable. We don't want people to lose hope, because that's when people spiral and so, yes, have to know that there's someone there to help, that there is hope and there's hope, and there's always someone listening. There's always someone listening.
Speaker 3:I like to talk, I really like to talk. There's a couple different main messages I like to give people, and that is that when someone is struggling with addiction or mental health is talk to them about purpose versus the message being you're broken. Because I think a lot of people are like me and probably you, that if someone approaches me and says you're broken, at that time in my life I would say I would back off and say, hey, hang up the phone or whatever, because I'm not broken. Hang up the phone or whatever. Yeah, because I'm not broken. No, no.
Speaker 3:But if we approach people about, hey, let's talk about your purpose, let's get you dreaming in life again. What are your goals and what are your hobbies? And do you play guitar? Cool, maybe you'd like to start a business giving guitar lessons. Or let's get them moving about what's on the other side of that depression or the alcohol or whatever they're going through. And then and then talk about post-traumatic growth, which is after we've hit the reset button, we've gone through the treatment, we're feeling rejuvenated, we're feeling alive again, our brain is working properly again. Then then let's talk about renewed relationships and renewed spirituality and that purpose and the things that are on the other side of that, because I think a lot of people were like me at the time and get locked in about that current chapter. They're on and maybe there is no other chapter when let's turn the page.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you just hit it. You just hit it. You get stuck on the current chapter that you're on, and it's a big book. There's many chapters in our books, right, and we have to turn the page, absolutely. And turn the page and start the new day, that all the cliches, one day at a time, all of those things, but it's absolutely true. It is absolutely true. You have to turn the page and so and it's possible, right, it's possible, it's doable, it's treatable Were you growing up and, and before all this happened, were you a big drinker?
Speaker 3:Well, I, I didn't drink at all in high school I was that guy. I went to youth group, that was my big thing and I played football and and I really wasn't into the I guess, the party crowd. But then in college is when things did change and I became a drinker and in typical college, kid sure, and then you know, as well as national guard, you're around your buddies, it's kind of accepted and and then, and then when you, you know, later on you graduate college and then get the fire service and then and then that culture is again it's accepted, and then so it kind of it wasn't an overnight, you know, going from doing great to hardcore addiction, post-traumatic stress. It was very gradual over years and those bad habits, without, without being self-aware enough and realizing enough the paths you're heading down, and turning into it and started making healthy decisions before it gets there. That's where I was. Just that's what I didn't do.
Speaker 2:Well, you were making choices. Really, you were living day to day at the loop in your head, so you weren't choosing anything, you were just listening to that. You know that endless loop go on and just trying to shove it down and stuff it. So you were kind of got out of that pattern of making any healthy choices. I think that's something to watch for. I think that's something for people to watch for. When you're no longer making any choices, you're not making decisions, you're not making decisions, you're not making choices, you're not even trying, you're just repeating that same old loop in your head, day after day after day. That's a problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's definitely a problem. Yeah, that's what I wanted to kind of ask you. It wasn't a thing you just grew up doing. You know you were an EMT, you were a firefighter and I would. You know you go on calls, right, there's accidents and some of those calls are drunk drivers, right? And is that one of the things that crosses your mind when you are doing that drinking at all? I've always been curious about this because I know a lot of. My dad was a sheriff growing up. I had, you know, cops showing up at our house and things like that, and was around cops in my own. You know personal life later on, bad choices, but a lot of drinking, a lot of drinking, and I always wondered and always wanted to ask and never did is that something that you see out there all the time? Right, you see alcohol related accidents and incidents, but yet it's accepted and we keep doing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Isn't that weird?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I worked with other firefighters that were getting DUIs and we unfortunately had one.
Speaker 3:His name is Matt Young. That just one of the seemingly happiest guys funny, one of my best friends and he was one of the one of my go-to guys was you you wanted to just be able to relax and tell some some jokes with and he ended up dying by a suicide with a fire alarm. And and that's when I began to kind of connect the dots is looking back on my time in the fire services and as an EMT, and I started kind of connecting those dots of like, hey, these, you know, this person had a DUI, this one did as well as this one and this one, and there's Matt Young's suicide. And I thought back to my time in the military. We actually had a suicide on the rifle range. So I started kind of connecting the dots and I kind of came to the conclusion that I'm probably not the only one that's had these struggles. And as I start sharing my story and connecting with other people, it wasn't real long before I realized that, no, I was right, it's a widespread problem.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, and you know alcohol is so accepted. You drive to the liquor store, you get your liquor. There's drive-through liquor stores, which that one, I can't even wrap my brain around Don't drink and drive, but just drive on through and grab that liquor. I don't know what we're ever going to do about that at this day and age, honestly. But, um, alcohol is a problem, it's an issue and it's a problem in this society and it's caused a lot, of, a lot of things and taking a lot, a lot, a lot of lives. I know I've done some of these stupidest shit in my life.
Speaker 2:oh, yeah you know they made me a jerk and you you know tequila, so just some of the dumbest things that you wouldn't normally do, right? And it's a problem in this world and in society. And and people look at it as we're just having fun. Ok, I mean, I guess some people are having fun and I've had much fun. I'm not going to lie, I've had a lot of fun with it too, but it causes some extreme issues out there. Had a lot of fun with it too, but it causes some extreme issues out there.
Speaker 2:You know, I've been in prison with someone that killed someone. She was a drunk driver, she killed someone and she was an alcoholic. And you know, living with that is not easy either. Once you're sober and once you're not drunk and you're living with the fact that you killed someone, you killed an innocent person. That's not easy. That's not easy to live with. And then I was incarcerated with somebody who thought it wasn't their fault. Also, it wasn't my fault. I was drunk, I didn't mean to kill them. Well, I don't think their family's looking at it that way. You know what I mean. Nobody forced you to take the drink. So I've seen people look at it in different ways and I know people that, of course, are alcoholics and have gotten sober, and I know that drinking and driving man that's something else.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I know a lot of EMTs and a lot of fire bars and a lot of those guys see that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it doesn't really seem to be a deterrent.
Speaker 3:No, it's kind of your bulletproof. You know the ego of it's not going to happen to me and that kind of gets in the way of our better judgment, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, alcohol is definitely not for use for judgment. No, definitely not for judgment, no. So what's going on with you now? Do you speak at any firehouses or anything like that?
Speaker 3:No, that's a good idea, though I would definitely love to do that. I primarily speak at different local events here in OKC, and then I've been blessed enough to have some treatment programs and other nonprofits put me on a plane and pay for the hotel and fly me out to different parts of the country to hear me speak. It's crazy, because I always pictured someone paying me not to speak.
Speaker 2:Paying you to shut up. Yeah, so you have something on your page that caught my attention and it says really everything about you. I think that anybody that doesn't know you should know, and I'm going to pull this up and read it because I just love this saying that you have on here you never stand taller than when you stoop to help someone.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a beautiful quote. Yeah, the ironic part of that is how tall are you?
Speaker 3:I'm 6'4".
Speaker 2:So when I very first read that I laughed a little, but then I read it again you never stand taller than when you stoop to help someone. I thought that was really beautiful and I think that says everything about your character that anybody would need to know, because that's just really who you are. You're out there helping people every day, helping people change their lives and helping people get better, and you said not one suicide in the last seven or eight years with anybody that you worked with.
Speaker 3:No suicides. We've lost two. We've lost two to addiction, but no suicides. And I've connected to I don't know how many hundreds.
Speaker 2:And that's awesome. That is really something. That is really something. Well, my whole family was military, and even my mom. My mom and dad met in the army. My brothers are military Youngest brother but still older than me, you know 21 years in the Air Force. My other brother was a Marine, like everybody, except for me, I chose to go to prison instead of military. It's all about choices, but I wasn't made for the military, that's a fact. But you know, my whole family was, and I have a big heart for those that serve, and so thank you for your service. First of all and I do have a big heart for that my son. We talk about him going in the Air Force, and he's only 13. So I don't know where we're going to be at five more years in this world, but that's just been what my family's always done too. So I appreciate that very much and appreciate you working with the people that really need the help, that really need it and need to know that there's someone out there, that they're not alone.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I'm just grateful that I'm still here to be able to help. You know, we put things in the right perspective. It's like wow, I'm just. I'm glad I'm here and just able to help.
Speaker 2:Yep, and you said you had that little voice, and you heard that little voice that you were here, there was more for you. You were here, there was more for you, and you listened to it. So you know, just blessed and grateful every day.
Speaker 3:And I know you have a good relationship with your mama. Now, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the the blessings of sobriety. If I would have thought this stuff up, it would have fell way short than what it was now. If I would have dreamed this up and tried to design my life, I would have fallen way short of this. And then we, we recently you know, of course, me and my, my son, aiden we went through a rough time because of, you know, the addiction you know, gradually over the years, I just told myself it's like it's not going to be what you tell him, it's going to be what you show him and the work you put in and staying sober.
Speaker 3:And we recently had well, this, I guess this past summer we had a family reunion, aiden and his girlfriend wonderful, wonderful girlfriend it is, she makes him, she makes him happy.
Speaker 3:He came into town and and he said, dad, I want to do something with just me and you, and yeah, that's huge wow yeah that meant a lot yeah, and you know my mother and you know stepdad and family and so but yeah, that's I think that's what we were kind of talking about earlier is, is that post-traumatic growth and what's on the other side of that current chapter?
Speaker 2:you're on are, and the more positive that we put out into the world, the more positive energy, the more positive energy flows. And if we can continue to just do that one person at a time, one, not hand out, but one hand up, one help up at a time, one at a time, one at a time, you know, sooner or later it just keeps on going and it just keeps on going and it's that paying it forward all the time. And I believe that can be done. I believe the stigma can be broken and I think it's well on its way.
Speaker 2:Compared to where it used to be I really really do there's a Recover Out Loud movement right now that is bigger than I've ever seen it since I started using it 11 years old. So it's bigger than I have ever seen it. Recovery and just people telling their stories and people coming together and sharing and trying to help the next person is really I can really see it just going and going and going and it's almost cool now to be in recovery, as it used to be cool to be out. You know partying. It's been cool to be in recovery, so I prayed for that. I prayed for that today and I see it. I see it happening and it's beautiful to watch. It really is. So thank you for everything that you do out there just to help that movement along and you know just what you're doing, and letting people know they're not alone is just absolutely huge.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I'm grateful to do it.
Speaker 2:Thank you for coming on today and sharing with me, brian. I really, really appreciate it. Is there anything that you want to say, any final words, anything that you would like to get out there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, if any veterans or first responders are struggling, just reach out to me. We do have a scholarship program. If you're in the Oklahoma City area your Inner Circle, behavioral Health their fantastic mental health clinic down there we make it really easy to get into treatment. We just ask that you show up and go and those who have not served I don't turn anybody away and I'm well-connected Programs like Hope is Alive, ministries and different partners and we also have what's called findhelporg and I use that. So if someone lives in Alaska I can find them help right there in their zip code. Just by them plug it in their zip code and I'll walk them through it.
Speaker 2:So and anybody can use that. Findhelporg, right, anybody can use that. And so I think in this today's time of that recover out loud movement, there's so many ways now to find treatment. Like you said, your parents were struggling, they didn't know what to do. They were Googling, they were trying to figure it out, right, and there is so many find helporg and websites that now for people to be able to get plugged in and help, and if it's just too big of a task, call me, call Brian, call someone that works in that, and they can help you through it and help find those resources for you.
Speaker 2:You know, everybody's not the same. You went through equine therapy, right? That's awesome, that's amazing. And so there's several different kinds of therapies out there. That old thing of I don't need it, I don't need it, I don't need therapy, I'm not going to go through therapy. I'm not that guy. I'm not going to sit around and talk to people. I'm not going to this, I'm not going to do that. Well, that can be your choice. You can choose that route. Or you can choose to just get some help and turn the page and see what your day is going to look like tomorrow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think we could all use counseling, even though this may have been sober for 20 years, because you know it's similar to marriage counseling. It's better to have your premarital counseling done, so you have those tools in your toolbox before the issues start, so you know how to deal with them. You have the tools to do it.
Speaker 2:There's always going to be issues. Life is not perfect. Sober, not sober. Just because you get sober doesn't mean everything is like lucky charms and magically appears. That's not how it happens. Right, it's a work in progress. It's progress, not perfection, and it's every single day and it looks pretty good on the other side.
Speaker 3:So just all you got to do is give it a try, that's it. I'm like everybody else in the world and have been through the struggles and and enjoying a very good life and very happy and fulfilled, and I just love it to see other people be overcomers as well.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and eight years ago you didn't see that, did you? You didn't see that picture. You couldn't make that picture in your head of what that was going to look like.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had no earthly idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the thing you don't have to. You don't have to have that. You just have to have a little bit of faith and a little bit of trust and a little bit of hope. That's all you got to have that. It can look better and it will look better. Just give it a chance, give it a shot. So thank you for your inspiration and being able to out there, offer hope and encouragement for anyone who may be struggling. I say that every single day. Just to have people like that around is so very helpful. So thank you, thank you for sharing your story and just sharing what you do, so people know how to get hooked up with you.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So thanks Brian.
Speaker 3:OK, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I am so grateful that you joined me for this week's episode of Breakfast of Choices. If you're enjoying this podcast, please subscribe, give it five stars and share it to help others find hope and encouragement. The opposite of addiction is connection, and we are all in this together. Telling your transformational story can also be an incredible form of healing, so if you would like to share it, I would love to hear it. You can also follow me on social media. I'm your host, Jo Summers, and I can't wait to bring you another story next week. Stay with me for more Transformational Thursdays.
