Breakfast of Choices
Everyone has stories of transformation. And some of them include moments, or years of intense adversity, a time when it felt like there was no hope. This podcast, "Breakfast of Choices," holds space for people to share their true, raw and unedited stories of overcoming extreme struggles, like addiction, mental illness, incarceration, domestic violence, suicide, emotional and physical abuse, toxic family structures, relationships, and more. Trauma comes in so many forms.
Every week, as a certified Peer Recovery Support Specialist, Recovery Coach, Life Transformation coach and your host, I will jump right into the lives of people who have faced these types of adversity and CHOSE to make choices to better themselves. We'll talk about everything they went through on their journey from Rock Bottom to Rock Solid.
Through hearing each guest's story of resilience, my hope is that we'll all be inspired to wake up every single day and make our own "Breakfast of Choices". More importantly, that we'll understand we have the POWER to do it.
When someone shares their story, it can be unbelievably healing. And it can be just what someone else needs to hear at that exact moment to simply keep moving forward. So I hope you can find "that one little thing that sticks," along with hope and encouragement to just keep taking it one day at a time.
And now let me be the first to welcome you to the "Breakfast of Choices" community, a non-judgemental zone where we learn from, lean on and celebrate one another. Because the opposite of addiction is "connection", and we are all in this together.
If you would like to tell your story, I sure would love to listen. Please email me at Breakfastofchoices@gmail.com.
Respects,
Jo Summers.
Breakfast of Choices
Losing Everything for a Bonus Round: A Gambling Recovery Journey-With Christine Paladino
The gambling industry spends billions convincing us their product is harmless entertainment, but Christine Paladino's real and raw journey reveals a different truth. From innocent childhood bingo halls to high-stakes casino floors, her evolution from casual player to compulsive gambler unfolds with painful clarity and remarkable self-awareness.
Christine's story begins with those seemingly innocent early exposures – grandma's lottery numbers in a glass jar, family "baby pools" betting on newborn characteristics, and trips to the racetrack as cherished family outings. These formative experiences normalized gambling as simply another form of entertainment, planting seeds that would later blossom into full-blown addiction.
What makes gambling addiction so insidious is its invisibility. Unlike substance abuse, there are no physical symptoms for loved ones to notice. Christine maintained her professional life as a police dispatcher and volunteer firefighter while secretly spiraling out of control. When New Jersey casinos launched online platforms in 2013, her occasional Atlantic City trips transformed into constant accessibility through her phone. No longer constrained by physical location, gambling became her emotional escape from career disappointments and daily stress.
The neurological parallels between gambling addiction and substance abuse are striking. Christine explains how brain scans of gambling addicts and substance users show identical patterns during addictive behaviors – her brain had essentially rewired itself to treat gambling as essential for survival. She wasn't chasing money anymore; she was chasing the anticipatory high of "bonus rounds" regardless of winning or losing.
Perhaps most disturbing is how addiction transformed her character. When appointed treasurer of her fire company, Christine began embezzling funds to support her gambling habit. "I became a master manipulator, a master liar, and I was great at hiding things," she confesses
Midlife is freaking hard. Let's flip the script.
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
From Rock Bottom to Rock Solid.
We all have them...every single day, we wake up, we have the chance to make new choices.
We have the power to make our own daily, "Breakfast of Choices"
Resources and ways to connect:
Facebook: Jo Summers
Instagram: @Summersjol
Facebook Support: Chance For Change Women’s circle
Website: Breakfastofchoices.com
Urbanedencmty.com (Oklahoma Addiction and Recovery Resources) Treatment, Sober Living, Meetings. Shout out to the founder, of this phenomenal website... Kristy Da Rosa!
National suicide prevention and crisis, hotline number 988
National domestic violence hotline:
800–799–7233
National hotline for substance abuse, and addiction:
844–289–0879
National mental health hotline:
866–903–3787
National child health and child abuse hotline:
800–422-4453 (1.800.4.A.CHILD)
CoDa.org
12. Step recovery program for codependency.
National Gambling Hotline 800-522-4700
Good morning and welcome to Breakfast of Choices Life Stories of Transformation from Rock Bottom to Rock Solid. I'm your host, jo Summers, and I'm here tonight with my guest, christine Palladino. She has an amazing story and a lot of wisdom and hope and encouragement to offer tonight for anyone who might have a gambling addiction. And I don't mean when I say she has an amazing story. This is an amazing journey and testimony of her life, and she was on a friend of mine's podcast and I heard her speak and the self-awareness that she has in addiction is just absolutely fantastic and I could not wait to have her on and just talk with her tonight. So, hi, christine, how are you?
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm great, Jo. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm so happy to have you on tonight and so happy that you agreed to do this. You know, when I say someone has an amazing story, that sounds like it's a story. You know what I mean. It's a testimony and it's a journey of your life and, um, it's truly fantastic the way you have overcome. So thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 2:No problem, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yes, so where do you want to start, chris?
Speaker 2:I mean talk a little bit about like the significance or my exposure when I was younger absolutely.
Speaker 1:I found that to be very significant. When I was listening to your story and I, as I told you earlier, I kept wanting to yell things out, and that was part of it I wanted to say, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. You know I was wait. She doesn't know.
Speaker 2:So you go right ahead. Yes, so I mean growing up. I mean I was child of the 80s. So it was, you know, my aunt and my grandma dragging me along to that smoke filled 1980s bingo hall. You know they always played the picket. You know, I remember grandma had this, this little glass jar, and all her numbers were folded up into it. So that's how she'd pick her pick six numbers you know she was playing the lottery yes, you know um, and then I was.
Speaker 2:I was the oldest of 21 grandchildren on one side of the family. Wow yeah.
Speaker 2:Big family and we had things called baby pools. So you, you know, if the is it going to be a male, is it going to be a females, you know however many here. Here's a dollar, you know, put 50 cents on this and you know, then, when the baby was born, you know you get a couple of bucks. Yeah, the racetracks go in family picnic day. You know we always had family outings. I mean, I've been to the racetrack with all four of my grandparents, who have since passed, but you know, those were like memories that I had with them. You know, and and then, you know, scratch offs you know you don't think anything of it.
Speaker 2:And you know, I remember as a kid, you know getting the scratch-offs and the thing that gets me is those were my early exposures. And, yes, I had family members that would go on special occasions down to Atlantic City, so I'd hear the stories. My family played cards. You know we had, you know, my grandfather, you grandfather you know penny poker. We play for cookies or something you know learned how to play poker.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, these were just things that were acceptable okay and no harm done yeah, absolutely and I think it just amazes me that the fact that the exposure that there is now for children that were my age at, you know, at that time, is just insane. Honestly, you know it really. Yeah, so, so, yeah. So that was like that was, you know, as soon as I turned 18, I could buy my first lottery ticket. It was like yay, you know. And then the next thing, I know, I'm running to get dad's, my aunt's, everybody's numbers for them, you know. But it was a thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's just I. You know, it really wasn't like a problem for me, it was just an acceptable form of entertainment, which is what gambling was made for.
Speaker 1:Was it a problem for anyone in your family growing up that you knew of?
Speaker 2:You know what? No, I mean it. You know, not that, not that. I saw, you know, I mean we had, we had a lot of other stuff going on you know, there were members of my family.
Speaker 2:You know my dad was an alcoholic, not a. You know he wasn't a mean alcoholic, he drank every day after work. You know, I think he'd get a little more on the sensitive side, you know. And so, um, you know my parents were divorced. Um, there's some drug use like second and third cousin wise Um, so they, you know they had that going on, um, but other than that, you know that that was it. You know that nobody, you know, or it wasn't talked about either way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you weren't aware. Yeah, absolutely Okay. Okay, I was just curious. When I was hearing you talk with Lou, I was like I wonder if it's in her family at all that she knows of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, they enjoy gambling. You know? Um, some of them still do, I can tell you, you know, but not to the, not to the point where it got with me that, you know, nothing was lost per se yeah, yeah, it was still fun for them.
Speaker 2:They were still having fun putting it down, yeah yep okay so, yes, that, um, you know, and like my life went on from there, you know, I like, growing up that that that was pretty much okay. You know we have it here. It's acceptable. You know, as you know, time started to go by. Um, I wanted I had first responder family also um my mom was a police officer.
Speaker 2:She was also a police dispatcher in my hometown, um, my dad was a firefighter. My brother went on to be a firefighter, um, and you know, my aunts were in the ladies auxiliary. I had, um aunts that were nurses. I had uncles that were police officers, most of them, um, so that was just, you know. I felt like that's where I was going to go, okay, like I wanted you know, growing up I was a police explorer and I don't know if you know what that is but they probably have a more out there now than they did out here?
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, I grew up, as you know, I was a police explorer. I was very involved in my community. That way, when I went to high school I was in the same school. From kindergarten I went to Catholic school. I was in the same school that was in that hometown of mine from kindergarten up until ninth grade and then my freshman year I was switched out and I had to go to public school for the first time ever. Wow.
Speaker 2:And it's a couple of towns away. So I can say that my sophomore year that's kind of where. That's where smoking starts. That's where, oh my gosh, I'm not in the hometown where everyone knows me, you know, cut school here, cut school there get caught got caught smoking in the bathroom. Thank God it was back then and not now. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Probably be back in jail. So it was like, okay. And then my junior year, I was I kind of like flip the script 100%, started studying more, started paying more attention to everything, because for my senior year they were starting a pilot program that our vocational school was going to do law enforcement. Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:So, while we were still in high school, we had the opportunity to attend, you know, and it was all my friends were in there, all the police explorers that wanted to be we had the opportunity to attend the vocational school first class that they ever had, the vocational school first class that they ever had. Still going on now, this was 94, um, and then I got accepted into class. Well, while you were there, you were earning college credits in high school for the community college yeah, that's great so you know that I I turned everything around junior year just to be able to be able to go.
Speaker 2:You know I had my little. You know, oh wait, I'm not in the same town, kind of thing, and then it was like yeah, yeah, new exposure right, you get somewhere.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like someone going off to college. Right, you got to test this test boundaries, yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:That was it. It was just, you know, in this like four towns over and yeah. So I um got accepted into that and you know I said, oh, this is great. You know, um, we have something called special police officers in new jersey and what they are is they're like part time. So you know, we have a lot of people that come down to the shore during the summer. As the population increases, they bring these other police officers.
Speaker 2:We start out special one, you go to special two. There's not much of a difference, other than you know there's a few things. But I was hoping to finish the vocational school, go post-grad to the vacational school for one year and get the college credits, go get my criminal justice and all the while become a special, a class one, go to the academy, become a class one. I wanted to be a police officer and I thought that's, you know, that's where everything was going to go. I got a scholarship for my books to go to the community college, uh, through the vocational, and then eventually one of the local police chiefs had come in. And so in 96, when I was done with getting my college credits and hoping to continue to go to college, he actually offered me my first job as a dispatcher.
Speaker 2:Okay. And it was my mom's hometown and it was like okay, and I went there. You know, oh, okay, great, I'm going to start as a dispatcher, that's, you know, just like mom.
Speaker 2:I'm going to start as a dispatcher, get my foot in the door with the department and then I'm going to go on to do that class one, class two and work my way up that way. But it stopped with dispatching, okay. So once I started dispatching like I said, I'm 18 years old I tried to do the college at the same time. I thought I had this quiet town, I could get my school work done at the same time. You know, I thought I had this quiet town, I could get my school work done you know, at the same time, it's very quiet.
Speaker 2:And eventually that just kind of went to the wayside, because here I am, I have the career that's going to get me in. Why do I need it? Now I'm becoming you know. Now, I said you know I'm an adult. Now I'm becoming you know. Now I said I'm you know I'm an adult. I um, I turned um 19 and then I turned 20 while I was working in the police department. So I gave that a shot for a while. Um, I was, you know, I was doing it, I was loving it, I was good at it. Um started making a lot of connections. I ended up going um, going onto the volunteer EMS squad. So it was like, okay, you know, my mom had been in EMT, they're all volunteers. Like, dad was a volunteer firefighter, my brother was a volunteer EMT and firefighter, and then, um, you know, my mom used to be volunteer for EMS. So it was just, you know, it was our thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then. So I was there, and then I never got sent to special school. I never got sent to the police academy for that. And okay, now I'm a dispatcher. And then I turned, I guess when I turned, yeah, so when I turned 21, I got a little restless, you know, maybe step out of the family business. All my friends that weren't in the scene, they were all going out having fun, you know, and I'm on these late night shifts. I have this crazy shift work.
Speaker 2:It's not leaving me a lot of time. I don't know if I like it. All right, I want to find something else to do. You know, at that time I, you know, I ended up leaving. You know, police dispatching.
Speaker 2:I went and I found a job in. I found a job and it was totally it was administrative assistant in a swimming pool supply company. From there they eventually I got you know promoted to the shipping coordinator. So I mean it was a great job, everything was good. And then I was invited to the pool and spa show in Atlantic city. That's what they were having down there and that's pretty much my first experience in Atlantic city and a casino. Okay.
Speaker 2:Hey, um. So I was kind of like, all right, why not now in new jersey you can go. I had been, like I said, to the horse track before. You could play lottery and be in the horse track at 18. Um, so those things you know, legally I could do those things. But now this is my first trip down to atlantic. I'm like super excited. I don't know. I don't know what to expect. I was just like OK. As soon as I got there I was just like, wow, this is a great vacation destination.
Speaker 2:You know, like there's so much to do here. And. I went that first time. It was the first time I got to the machines and they started hitting and I started to learn. You know, I started to learn what it could be like.
Speaker 1:And first time in Atlantic City. Your machines are hitting.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was a day that every everything I touched turned to gold. Oh goodness. Everything and. I'm not talking. You know, like I think I started with maybe ten dollars. Dollars, you know, and it was so long ago that we were still putting the coins in yeah you know it wasn't like you put the cash in. No, we, we had actual like dollar coins.
Speaker 2:That we were putting in these machines. They had silly promotions going on. Um, like, I remember tic-tac-toe with a live chicken in a box, like what we're what you know there was just, yeah, it really was. You know, like you think, how corny they can become and you can win sunglasses or a beach ball. Congratulations, right. Um, so that's what happened. I was waiting for my friend to take her turn with the chicken and I just saw, saw this machine. I said all right, this one looks good. I put the coin in and then there we go, no pun intended, off to the races.
Speaker 2:It kept hitting, it kept hitting and then my girlfriend comes sits next to me, her starts hitting. I was like this is crazy, you know, I was like but it's fun, it's exciting, you know they, they had me. I was like wow does this happen all the time?
Speaker 2:you know here's where the mind games kind of kind of play in yeah um, now, at that time, um, and I think one of my aunts was down there and when I told her, like this machine to go, one machine was going off like crazy and it was up to a thousand dollars. And I'm like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, it's still going. And I tried to find her, you know, tried to find her at the same place, and I was like, come here, you know, it's like you got to see this. And yeah, so it was hitting. We went to other machines, same thing. We were met with the same results.
Speaker 2:By the time it was dinner, um, you know, we went up to the, to the reception room. I didn't have to stay the whole week for the convention, so I didn't have to be there that whole week. I was just there for the day, you know, the night, and I was going home sunday. So, um, my girlfriend, she, okay, here's the thing, since you're going back, I want you, I'm going to give you a deposit slip Back, then we could deposit into other people's accounts right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So she said I'm going to give you a deposit slip. I'm going to give you some of my money because I have to be here all week. It wasn't like we had ATM cards. You know that we did. She said you know, I'm going to give you the money. I'm going to give you my deposit slip. Take it home. Please put it in my bank for me.
Speaker 3:I don't want it while I'm down here we were smart about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I went home and I was like looking, you know, and it was like thousands of dollars, like 5,000, you know, but 2002, that was a lot more than my paycheck.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, you know, and some money went with her and so I was all set up. I got home I remember, you know, putting the money out going okay, I could put this in this, this deposit slip here, deposit to the savings account. I already had plans for it. It was going to pay my bills. I was putting some aside to take a vacation, you know, to go see my family.
Speaker 2:You know my brother had relocated to Louisiana um where he raised his family and I was like I had a brand new niece. You know, my first niece was born and I was like, yes, I'll have the money to go, you know. So, everything was like accounted for and all that, um about a week and a half later, chapacana liked me so much, that casino liked me so much that they sent me fan mail and that fan mail was promotions and they said hey, here's some coupons, come down, we're gonna give you a free room we're gonna give you free, this free that you didn't have to play.
Speaker 2:That was what they were giving you to come back and I was like, well, this is kind of cool, you know, you think you can save money. It's like a free, free trip, you know. Okay, great. And then next thing, you know, all the other casinos are sending me mail, ones I had never even been in yeah they start sending me mail and now
Speaker 1:you have a racket right now you can see if that is looking back on it now yeah, sign up for the promotions.
Speaker 2:you'd go down there, you'd get your little player card. You know, they, they give you all these incentives. And they said for a while it was oh okay, they had an IMAX theater, they, they were given, you know, concert tickets. So for a while. It was just that entertainment factor.
Speaker 2:Like I was going and just using the coupons for for that playing you know I I would spend maybe 10 minutes playing and it just turned into, you know, it was just exciting for me. People I went like they were older than me and all I go with my aunt, you know she, she loved to play, they liked to play, but at first for me I was just kind of like I just want to see everything. You know, it was to the point where we take the, when I take be driving down there and I see the sign Atlantic city welcomes you or whatever, and I'd be like, oh yay, you know, like and see the skyline, and I just took it all in.
Speaker 2:And I always said I was never, ever, ever. And I haven't. I was never, ever going to Vegas, because if I went to Vegas and it would make Atlantic city look like crap and then I didn't want to go. So that was always in my head. You know it was like no, if I go, I won't like Atlantic City anymore, kind of thing. And so, yeah, so I started taking you know, taking trips.
Speaker 2:It hadn't really become like the creature that it was going to. You know, when I turned 21, yes, I went out drinking. You know nothing, nothing too, nothing too crazy. You know I had fun doing it. It was, um, but it really wasn't my thing. You know it's like oh, we come home, you know you're, you're in. You know I'm in my early to mid-20s and you know, coming home, just after hanging out with friends, you know you had your.
Speaker 2:It was like ups and downs, um, still, like I said, I was taking those trips down there when my friends were down there you know, they'd have a PBA convention and, you know, even though I'm not working at the, you know, at the station anymore, but all my friends are going down there, so I'd be able to get a room for three nights. Go hang out with them, have a good time. You know, it was still very far and few between special occasions, birthdays, things like that. When I got back from, you know, when I came back from the trips, it was business as usual. And then in 2006, you know and I had been with that company for quite you know, about four or five years In 2006, I was offered another dispatching position in a bigger department, but it also brought with it 911 operator training. Oh. So I was like, oh, okay, you know.
Speaker 2:so maybe it's time to rethink so about I was 30 years old and I started working for the bigger department, and now I'm going to be 911 trained. I still maintain being on the EMS squad that time and now I'm excited to start, you know, my new job Within about three or four months. My hometown, which also was 911, also where my mom was working they offered me part-time so I had full-time pension, the benefits I had, everything going at that one department, um, and then now I can make some extra money picking up shifts, working, you know, alongside my friends, so to speak yeah um, working alongside my friends, okay, so I started doing that.
Speaker 2:So now I'm full-time, I'm part-time, and you know things are going um, and I was like, okay. And then, um, but within a couple months, actually within the first year of doing both, I kind of started to notice that the full-time positions were coming available in my hometown.
Speaker 2:I'm there as a part-timer and I found that I was, you know, and I'm training people that ends up getting the full-time spots, because if you look at me, I already have a full-time job. Maybe I'm not interested. So I pretty much told the full-time job, you know what I'm going to leave. I said, um, I wanted this. I wanted my hometown to know how serious I was, like you guys, look, I'm willing to give this up, I want this part time, you know, I want this full time spot here my family, you know, and then you know. So I left that one and then I started working in, started working more. So part timer, working, full time hours, plus at, you know, my hometown's apartment. I'm doing that and a little yeah, within a year later, if I can go, I will. But now I'm so busy, you know, I just want to work, I just want to make money.
Speaker 2:And then, a couple of years into that that we got hit with a big storm, um, it was super storm sandy. That pretty much, yeah, buried us, yeah, um, and when I wasn't working at the desk I was working with the firefighters being doing the ems thing. So it was kind of like all right, and I started doing this. Now I'm 36 years old and was kind of like all right, and I started doing this. Now I'm 36 years old and I kind of talked it over with my brother. On a trip shortly after that I took to Louisiana. I talked it over with my brother and my dad and I was like well, what do you think Could I do it? It's like, yeah, you know, I don't see why not. So I said okay, found a fire department to sponsor me and at 36 years old I went to the mom, the fire Academy. Um, you know, had myself put through. I'm 36 years old, you know. Hello, 18 and 19 year old boys.
Speaker 1:I got you, I see you you know, and um but yeah no so.
Speaker 2:I w I was a late start to the game but, um, I went and did it and I passed.
Speaker 2:Good for you, girl, and my dad who had retired and gone to live with my brother in Louisiana. He, he had been able to come back up, you know, was there to see my ceremony, my certificate. You know, up to that point, that I was pretty proud. Um, you know, and I had had it all, you know, had it all planned out, like this was just something else, and I was, yeah, that's it, I was. I was really proud. You know, female firefighter here I am. You know, I'm going to do the best.
Speaker 2:I can, and so okay, Um, I'm going to do the best I can, and so okay. Another, I'd say about a year and a half after that, there was an issue at the town that you know, all I wanted to do was be that full-time person in that hometown, and there was an issue and other things and they were like well, we don't need a part-timer anymore.
Speaker 2:We're not going to do part-time and I, after seven years I had never gotten. I got to interview a couple of times but in seven years I just kept getting skipped over. Wow.
Speaker 2:Do. I think it was kind of like a little kick to my mom who was retirement age and could go at any time but wasn't ready to you know, you know how small town you know drama, yeah, could it have been that. I believe so you know, but the joke was on them, because mom stayed almost 40 years. So I think that might have, you know, just been all a part of it, you know and that nepotism part maybe, who knows?
Speaker 2:And you know we'll get her really mad and she'll want to go. You don't know us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it sounds like y'all are pretty determined people.
Speaker 2:Yes, and, and I can say also growing up, my, my father was our primary. You know my parents had joint custody after they got divorced. They got divorced when I was five. My brother was three and with that um, but they they remained friends, like there was no animosity. They were very good, you know, very good friends and we had joy custody. It went around my mom's schedule but growing up me and my mom did not have a good connection.
Speaker 2:You know, we just didn't have that mother-daughter connection that I saw maybe all my, all my friends having, you know, and I got very close to my aunt who became the caretaker when dad needed someone to take care of us, and so it was.
Speaker 2:you know, there there was a little animosity, you know, and it was like just always I didn't feel she was there for me where she should be, you know she was kind of like you know, kind of like the fun parent, like I'll take you on all these trips, but it was always work and career and work and career and that was you know. So when you said, you know it sounds like determined, well, you know, it was always present there. Yeah, yeah yeah, um, we definitely got both our parents work ethic um without a doubt. You know always had to be working and then so when they let me go, that was that big disappointment for me I worked so hard.
Speaker 2:I was training so many people you know, just to just to be like no, forget you. Yeah. So at that point in time during you know, that was like I was, I'd say 2013, um, all the casinos in New Jersey were now online. Okay.
Speaker 2:They all went online so I could be on my phone. I can be on my tablet, I can be on my computer and the game start. You know, I start accessing my casinos through this. Wow, this is great. I don't have to go all the way to Atlantic City. I still wanted to, but I didn't have to go, and that became something that kept me occupied and kept me away.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It escaped me from the stuff that was going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was your emotional escape. You just said I'm not going to feel this, I'm just going to do something that takes my mind off of it and makes me happy.
Speaker 2:Correct Right, and there it was. When that happens. I was just, you know, I was like, okay, I was always playing on my phone. Now I did, you know, did put myself out there. I lost, because of the you know, the less money that I had to take after leaving. I lost my, you know, I had a little bungalow that I was renting. After eight years I had to let go.
Speaker 2:You know, that was that was like my first real, like home you yeah um away from parents yeah and I had to let that go because I wasn't going to be able to, you know, pay the rent, and so I was definitely in no position whatsoever to be spending money gambling yeah um, I did get another job.
Speaker 2:I had to move. I got another job, um, as as a dispatcher again. Um, it just wasn't the same. You know, it didn't have the 9-1-1. So I kind of lost that um and I had, you know, I had the fire department, I had the first aid. Yeah, that was keeping me. But I start working this new job and I'm on my phone Midnight shifts. Here I am and I'm gambling, and I'm gambling more, and it became an everyday occurrence.
Speaker 2:And now the addiction is here. Yeah, as I'm working you know um those down times I start taking the trips to Atlantic City more regular Okay, it wasn't, it wasn't just for the you know the comp to Atlantic City more regular Okay, it wasn't, it wasn't just for the, you know the comps, so to say you know it wasn't just for the comps, it was to go down and play.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was going down there and calling out of work. It was going down there and trying to get somebody to switch with me last minute you know, so I didn't have to call out and it didn't you know, didn't feel bad.
Speaker 2:I'd be on my phone playing, playing the sluts on my phone or table games while I'm walking down to the casino from my room and I say room, I mean suite I had the top player cards. You know, I just stuck to one casino but I had top tiers in the. You know, in that the VP of operations was my host. You know, friends are getting married. I got the bachelor part, bachelorette party. We're good, let's go.
Speaker 2:You know, anytime anything was going on down there, I was there. You know we take trips. Like I said, my aunt would come with me often and then, like I said, it was just my way of doing that. You know, anytime something stressful happened at work there, we go and there was stuff all the time you know, it was always something with trauma, and drama, absolutely Whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What I'm seeing is you've got a lot of feelings and a lot of emotions going on that you're not dealing with at all. You're just. That's now the way that you're masking your emotions, right, you're not sharing this with anybody, you're not telling anybody. You're upset. You're just yeah, you're just handling it. This is your now, your coping skill, right. Correct.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, that's calming. And addiction is now your coping skill. And and what's so hard about gambling is nobody sees it right your body's not changing, your physical features aren't changing, you know. You're not staying up all night, you're not sleeping all day, so nobody's really questioning you at this point, right.
Speaker 2:That is correct. I kept it, you know, and I was living alone. You know my dogs don't talk back. So you know my comings and goings. No one had to know. There was actually a point in time during you know me being actively um, you know, actively starting to really go downhill with this um where I went, I put myself into Alcoholics Anonymous.
Speaker 2:So I was going to AA meetings for 11 months and it didn't dawn on me until later you know, I was really going because if everyone thought alcohol was my problem and I was saying I was doing great in AA, no one, everyone would leave me alone about gambling. Nobody would question anything. Yeah you know, it was kind of like a backup excuse that subconsciously I didn't realize until years later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, you know. The one thing, though, is is the going to AA. You were still getting exposure to all of that for later. Yes, so that was at least the start of progress, not perfection, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I just didn't know it yet.
Speaker 2:That's right, yep, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:And I, you know, and that was the first time I knew anything about a fellowship and you know what goes on. So I, you know, I just said, okay, you know. And then I eventually went out one night and I was like, oh okay, it's okay for me to drink Everybody's, you know. But no, um, there was no inclination from anybody that I was aware of until one night. Um, until one night when my aunt, who usually went with me, we were coming back from a trip down there, and this is when, like it was, it was really out of control at that point, um, like I said, I would always go down with comps and my friends and we'd have $500 dinners and not think anything of it. The, you know, it was just becoming like.
Speaker 2:We went, we had concert tickets and a concert I really wanted to go to. It was Toby Keith. There you go, yeah, um, there, yeah, you know, toby Keith, he was my favorite and I remember, you know, everyone getting ready to go and I just would not leave that machine. You know, I wanted to wait until the last, last possible minute. I just couldn't go, and you know. So, you know, my friends were just kind of like, oh, she's up. She's doing good, you know. It's OK. It's OK, she'll catch up with us. You know I missed a dinner with all my friends we went to the concert with because I wanted to be at that machine. So these were the little things.
Speaker 2:In 2016, I had this machine. It had three times my rent at the time. Okay, I had this. You know, I had friends down there. My aunt was with me and we just watched this machine go up and I just sat there playing. I didn't care. You know I was like oh no, it's fine, It'll keep going. Pardon my language, but I was a bonus round whore. I don't know. I don't know how else nicer to put that. I wanted those bonus rounds. I was chasing the action. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I didn't care about losing money, I didn't care about winning money. Yeah. I was chasing the action. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Come on that bonus round's coming. Come on that jackpot's coming, it's coming, it's coming, it's coming, it's coming it's coming, it's coming. That anticipation was just driving me, driving my adrenaline to be like. This is the most exciting part of my day, right here yeah you know, my exciting moment and this is all. This is great. And I get it and then say I'd win five cents, it didn't matter. You know it was a dollar bet, but the bonus round only paid you five cents, but that's okay, it didn't matter, right?
Speaker 1:it's just the adrenaline of it, the excitement of bet. But the bonus round only paid you five cents. But that's okay, it didn't matter, right? It's just the adrenaline of it, the excitement of it and the dopamine rush, right?
Speaker 2:all the yep my brain was being a hundred percent rewired yep rewired um, I wasn't sleeping. Um, you know, then it became like I wasn't. I could sit there for hours just on a binge. However long it took me, you know, to run out of the money how many trips back and forth to the ATM, you know, I didn't know, I didn't know how to stop it. Like, you know, what was it going to take without running out of money? You know, I didn't have the control. It was out of my control now you know, and I thought I could read machines.
Speaker 2:I thought this was going to be, I could do this. I'm like, it's like my job. Like I know that machine's going to hit. Yeah, that machine never hit, just stop.
Speaker 1:Yep. You know, tell yourself right, that's the addiction, yeah.
Speaker 3:Just trying, are just just trying to justify it and you know I'm not doing a substance, so how bad is this?
Speaker 1:yeah, you know, I'm not doing yep, did you not at this time that you had any kind of addiction? Or were you just still in the, in the? I?
Speaker 2:wasn't looking at it that way at all okay, you know I really wasn't like I was thinking I should be more responsible. There were times where I said, nope, $100, that's it. Set my limit. When I was younger and would first go down, my grandmother would say let me bring with you what you can afford to lose. Kind of the same thing as if you loan somebody money, don't expect it back.
Speaker 1:So your grandma, though, already knew this could be a problem by that statement, she already knew that gambling could be an issue.
Speaker 2:It was like. It was like a general you know, when you're going down, think about this. You know, but it was so like 20 years, like before, you know, and she was like this is how you do it, this is you know, they were always explaining stuff to me and yeah, so you know, and she was like this is how you do it.
Speaker 2:This is you know. They were always explaining stuff to me and yeah, so you know. Like she had said, this is what you do, this is how we do it. You know, this is how me and your pop do it. You know I only bring $50 this day.
Speaker 2:And so yeah, I had, like I said, I had tools. People were always saying things but when they said it it wasn't at the point where I needed to hear it or remember that part. Yeah, so it was. But yeah, and one of the nights, so I eventually I was working as the dispatcher calling out, doing all kinds of stuff, the dispatcher calling out, doing all kinds of stuff. Eventually I went moved up in one of my fire companies and my one fire company was. I became the second Lieutenant, so I was moving up pretty quick there. That same year I was nominated to I was doing some data entry for my other volunteer fire company. I had two. I was doing some data entry for them and assisting um, assisting the treasurer, and next thing, I know I'm getting more and more work and involved in this. And then they went nominated me. So it was kind of like a quick, like wait. What are you doing?
Speaker 2:you know, and now here I am now, I'm treasurer and then I was doing secretary for my EMS squad. All like all directions you know and I always say now I'm like yeah, let's just stress yourself out, so you have another excuse to get away.
Speaker 1:And I deserve it. I need to reward myself, right. This is my Friday night. I deserve this. I work to reward myself, right. This is my hundred online.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's cool. I ain't waiting. Let me drive down to Atlantic City, pick up that money, and as soon as I pick up my winnings, I put it right into a machine. Yeah. They became lossings.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:And you know, going home. So that time that I was explaining happened during that period, that's when me and my aunt were coming back and we watched this machine go up and, like I said, I was almost I don't know, it had to be $3,000, $4,000, somewhere up in that and I kept playing it and I kept playing it and I kept playing it and I was just like, no, it's okay, it's okay. You know, now I have the money, now I have the money, I'm up. This, you know, this is keeping me playing.
Speaker 2:That was another one of my sayings. Yep you know, I just need enough to keep playing.
Speaker 1:I'm playing for free. Look at me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, not to mention how much you just lost, but Not to mention how much you just lost, but we're not thinking about that. Right right. So anyway, that night I only had like a couple hundred. When I was done playing that machine and I was like okay if I had $20, if I had $5. When I left the casino I broke even.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was a win, right yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, it was just, I have money. I'm not a loser.
Speaker 2:I have money I didn't lose, you know. So that was always a big thing. But that one particular night we're driving back and we're driving home and I said, my aunt knows me, she, she's always known me. Um, she had some inclination, but this is when she actually was able to, like, mention something. We're driving back and I had to get home. Now we're driving and I'm always a very careful driver and they have the easy pass lane and then the toll. Well, I would always have to pay a toll. I didn't have easy pass. This day I just went right through the easy pass lane like it wasn't anything, because I started to feel that regret yeah, I started to feel like oh man, that that, wow, that could have helped me out.
Speaker 2:Now, what you know, reality starts to set in that day and she's like are you. Okay, what's going on? Well, at that same time, I had to figure out the finance. Okay, I know that I've been using using the card, using the checkbook that belongs to the fire company for a lot of personal stuff. So it's in my head because this is right, right. At the same amount of time, like I said, stress myself out how to go, how to go, how to go, um something you know, chaotic happens at work.
Speaker 2:I'd be like all right, or I wouldn't, I wouldn't bring anybody with me, or I just bring, say, hey, I gotta go, you know let's go take the day, I have the day, um, so I had, uh, I had to get home and I was going to be starting to do the entries and the QuickBooks because it's audit time. Hmm. You know and I don't know, like I was the last person they should have asked. So I kind of always had an inkling, like they asked me, knowing that I was going to mess up, but not expecting me to mess up as bad as I did. If that makes any sense.
Speaker 1:So you thought they expected you to mess up.
Speaker 2:Yes, in a way Like why would you give me this position Of all the people? Why would you push me into this treasurer position? I'm not an accountant. I don't know anything about it. So it's kind of you know, kind of like it just seemed very, very fast, maybe you know just very fast. And I'm not placing any blame on anything, it's just there. Had there should have been a little bit more digging into that, you know, I just didn't feel like I I had a choice, kind of all of a sudden I'm at a meeting and they're like, yes, and I don't want to say no, I didn't take the position because I was, you know, gambling.
Speaker 2:It didn't even really like, it really wasn't a hard thing, but I just felt like it was all rushed. So, anyway, now they sent me to school. They sent me to a class, like you know, one of those conferences in a hotel. So we paid, I don't know. They paid $1,000 for me to go to QuickBooks class. Okay, well, what I started to realize is I'm in this QuickBooks class learning how to cook QuickBooks. Oh gosh.
Speaker 2:Okay, Like it's teaching me all these ways to make it better, you know. And. I'm just starting to receive it the wrong way and I'm in the grips of this addiction, like there's no doubt. So it's like numbers and money and you know all this, you know this line entry and line entry and you can category. You know the mind of an addict learning this stuff is. It's just the opposite. Yeah, Like it's just it's taken it to a whole crazy new level for me, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Instead of like being something that I'm learning from and you know, I'm just like, yeah, okay, I can barely balance my checkbook come on. You know, but anyway. So they sent me to the class. I start utilizing it. I have no, no accountability, like there is no one saying you know, coming in the back and looking at it. That's what I said. I just got this treasurer position Like nobody wanted it, so we're just going to push it off here.
Speaker 1:So nobody's reconciling anything that you're doing.
Speaker 2:No, oh man anything that you're doing? No, oh man. No, I had it all um, I was also bonded. Okay, they did have you know, I was bonded this is not the first time that it had happened in that department okay okay, there was other issues, you know, so I think maybe that could be part of it.
Speaker 2:Like, nobody wants this, put somebody in there. You know it has to be a fall guy because if they mess up it's on them kind of you know, like that's. You know I start doing that. That night came and I remember I had to be on the computer and I'm just changing line items. I'm making everything work to how, when my report, when I have to report every month at the meeting, like it's just all, like it's just all a mess, like to me it's all making sense, okay, and I'm trying to make it make sense for them, and I can't even make sense of my life, you know and I'm still.
Speaker 2:You know I'm going through everything, but it was coming out. You know, I became a master manipulator, I became a master liar and I was great at hiding things.
Speaker 1:That's part of addiction, right, that's part of it. That's your brain saying, oh my gosh, look what I can do with this and make it work. Yep, Part of the game right, it's part of the game that your brain starts going oh, this is fun. Here's the adrenaline. You live in fight or flight now. So that's how your body works, right, and that's how your brain wired now. So it's like this is fun. And now it became the when am I going to get caught? And that's another avenue of stress piled on top. And what are you already?
Speaker 2:doing to cope with stress right exactly, so it gets increased a little bit you know, there were times that I'd have somebody and like, hey, can you come over watch my dogs? You know, take care of? I pay people to take care of my dog so that I could go to atlantic city you know, and now that both of those dogs are deceased, I, I can't stand myself.
Speaker 2:You know, I I really like I've come to terms with everything, but I just could like what kind of person was I? What kind of person did I become?
Speaker 1:right uh addiction, that's, that's what that is that's. You can beat yourself up over it, but that's what it is.
Speaker 2:Your brain is in addiction and this is all the stuff that was going on and I, you know, just kept at it um that year, um I you know I had regular scheduled trips you know it got. It got even more lavish, you know, like my spending just got, you know, totally out of control. I got this, I got this, I got that. You know I was that big shot, that self-inflated person to all my friends.
Speaker 1:Giving you your self-worth, it's giving you your self-esteem, it's giving you your excitement, all of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and my aunt had just known something was up. I was, you know everything that happened with the books. And then it just, it was just like I was living in a fog. I was just living in this crazy fog making sure everyone knew everything was okay. There was nothing wrong with me, you know, I had no idea. I had no idea who I was, how I was feeling. My gambling had me, you know it, it, it had me tied and I just felt like this is the only thing that I can live with. You know, if I don't have this, I can't live. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know that that kind of feeling.
Speaker 1:So you now know, from being in this addiction and going through Gamblers Anonymous and all of that, you now know that your brain addiction becomes like survival, like food, like water, and so when you know like all of a sudden you can't get out of it, it's because your brain now thinks it's part of what you have to do to survive.
Speaker 2:Yes exactly. Like I know like if you put you know an addict of a substance next to me and you put me, you take a brain scan of both of us watching someone doing our activity.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:They're exactly the same.
Speaker 1:Exactly the same. It's addiction. It's the same thing in the brain, right that's. That's became your survival skill because your brain doesn't know Uh you rewired it right To think that it needed that to survive.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and, and, and I had no idea. Now I'm 40 years old you know, I turned 40 years old and I'm like okay, you know um never, I never had any kind of like mental health anything you know, it was very. The stigma was there, huge in those fields yeah, for sure, ptsd trauma you know, but you couldn't talk about it you know we didn't come back from calls or have a bad call and sit around and say, okay, how do we feel today?
Speaker 2:if you did that you were losing your job because they would start calling you crazy right, you know, and that was just that was just the stigma. Forget the stigma we had in the 80s and 90s. You know, carrying that in. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, it was all that. So then the day came that I guess I had gotten caught. No, I mean, I got caught. Somebody finally looked at something, and I think it's because one of, without without a doubt, one of the accounts was running low. One of the accounts was running low. I started moving money, it started to get sloppy and it was all me using their accounts to pay my bills so you were using their money to pay your bills because you used your own money to gamble.
Speaker 1:That is correct, mm-hmm, and the bills still got to get paid, right.
Speaker 2:Yep, car payments, rent. And it was crazy because, like, say, it was a store or my landlord's name, I wasn't putting that in the quickbooks what?
Speaker 1:what were you putting?
Speaker 2:I, I was putting exactly that, like after a while, like it started to be the line items. You know, uh, stop and shop the dry cleaner. The name of you know, the name of my landlord the name of my insurance company. Oh oh yeah, it's all there. So it's kind of like it became please someone catch me. Please someone catch me, I have a problem you. That's to the point that it got. I didn't want to say anything, but the cry for help was happening. Nobody was checking, nobody was looking at it, until they did.
Speaker 2:And once they did, it had been almost two years that I had been doing it. It had been almost two years. It had been almost two years and then that knock at the door came. When the two prosecutor's office detectives knocked on my door the morning I had plans to go to Atlantic City for a fun day.
