Part 2 - Finding Hope After Gambling Addiction: Christine Paladino's Journey From Prison to Purpose

What does it take to rebuild your life after addiction leads to criminal charges and prison time? Christine Palladino's remarkable journey from gambling addiction to purpose offers a raw, unflinching look at transformation through accountability.

When investigators confronted Christine about missing funds from the fire department where she volunteered as treasurer, she felt an unexpected twinge of relief. After years of hiding her gambling addiction, the weight of secrecy was crushing her. That pivotal moment sparked her decision to take complete accountability – a choice that would transform her life.

Christine shares the painful stages of her journey with unforgettable honesty – from making that first call to a gambling helpline, attending daily GA meetings, and repairing relationships, particularly with her mother. Her description of prison life, including a harrowing COVID quarantine experience, reveals how she developed profound gratitude for things most take for granted. "I'm so optimistic now," Christine explains. "It humbled me beyond belief. There are things I'm still reminded of how much I took for granted."

Most compelling is how Christine channeled her darkest experiences into purpose. Today, as a certified International Gambling Recovery Specialist, she educates others about gambling risks and supports others struggling with addiction. Her story illustrates how connection truly is the opposite of addiction and how lived experience becomes our most powerful tool for helping others.

Whether you're battling addiction yourself or supporting someone who is, Christine's journey offers hope that even our most painful chapters can become our greatest source of purpose. Her story reminds us that transformation begins with one courageous decision to face reality and take that first step toward recovery.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:12

Good morning and welcome to Breakfast of Choices life stories of transformation from rock bottom to rock solid, and I'm your host, jo Summers. And last podcast episode was with Christine Palladino the journey and testimony of her life and gambling addiction. Today we're going to share with you the rest of Christine's story, her amazing testimony and so much encouragement and hope and wisdom that she has gained throughout this time and so much learning Learning about herself, helping others grow truly, truly living her purpose. And it's very exciting to see and I'm so proud of her. She was a guest on my friend Lou Jenkins podcast let's Talk About it, and when I heard Christine's story I just felt a connection with her and when we got to talking, that connection was so strong I could literally feel everything she was going through when she was talking about it. It was just truly amazing. I know that if Christine and I lived close to each other, we would be hanging out all the time. So let's go ahead and get started and hear the second half of Christine's story.

Speaker 2: 2:25

Yeah, they came to the door that morning and they asked me if I would go to their office and sit down and talk to them. They said they wanted to talk to me about the fire department's finances. And there it was, that tiny little ping of relief, that tiny little one at that point. But I thought, maybe after a couple of days, one of the first thoughts that came maybe in a couple of days you'll be able to sleep without one eye open. You never know. And so I decided right then.

Speaker 2: 2:53

And there, christine, you're going to go in there. You know they're going to, they're going to read out, you know, read what they were going to do. Christine, you need to go in there and just cooperate, it's done. You know, like whatever you say to them is basically exactly what they're going to find out. Okay, whatever you say to them is what they already know. Like that was in my head and you know we always I always had respect for authority that way, you know. So it wasn't like oh no, I'm not coming down to talk to you without a lawyer. There was none of that.

Speaker 1: 3:22

I went I went willingly.

Speaker 2: 3:24

I went in there, they read me my rights and they started asking the questions. And you know they're going through this thing, this thing. You know, we know that you were here, we know that you were there. Um, it was actually the police department that I was working for who got the complaint and had to turn it over to the prosecutors. So detectives that I work with my friends in that department had to go and do this investigative stuff and go to the places that I was, you know, to do this and nobody could say anything to me yeah, no one. So it became kind of like, you know it was like, oh, boy, and you know, as I'm in there and they're asking me the questions about specific things, one of the questions he asked me because I would put like in quickbooks, or they see it atm, which are all atlantic city oh my goodness, christine okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 4:14

If I went, if I was at a casino, doesn't matter where it was, if I hit the atm, the only time I I put atm withdrawal casino is when I was leaving. Like I said, if I had that 20 in my pocket I didn't feel like a loser, so I could lose all my money.

Speaker 2: 4:30

Take that 20, that would get me gas or my tolls, whatever I needed, needed on the way home, and for the week until I got paid, you know, I would make it less, whatever I had to do or use the credit card to fill in. So all these things are coming up. And that's when he said to me. He said, Miss Palladino, do you have a gambling, a gambling problem? And I was like I don't think so. You know, that's how I answered the first time. No one ever asked me that question. I didn't have any. You know, no one ever asked me. I never thought about it and I don't think.

Speaker 2: 5:04

I was ready to admit it at that point in time. Yeah, so it was like I was like I, I don't know, maybe you know, and he just moved on to the next question. So I was like, okay, let's go there. When we got done, um, he said, look, he goes. You know, I just need to take the property. I'm gonna sign it, you know, we're gonna sign it all over, take the property back that belongs to the fire company, you know, let you know that.

Speaker 2: 5:26

We let your you know police captain know what's going on. So you'll probably be getting a call from them. You're not to go to the firehouse. We're not going to come like christmas eve because it was like a week before Christmas. We're not going to come on Christmas Eve, we're just letting you know this is our investigation. We are opening the investigation right now. It's going to take months. They have to get auditors, they have to talk to everybody at the firehouse. You know there's all these things that they still have to do. Find out exactly how much money I took, line by line by line. And that's when he said you know, you get yourself an attorney. You know, you do all that.

Speaker 2: 6:02

He also told me I wasn't going to go to jail. He said you're not going to jail? And I knew in the back of my head that he was right.

Speaker 1: 6:10

Yeah, you're not going to jail. That's exactly right.

Speaker 2: 6:13

No, it wasn't. No it wasn't because I was looking at official misconduct on top of my theft by deception second degree On top of that it was official misconduct because of the positions that I held that put me in a higher. You know they have to make an example of you, you should know better, okay, and here it is. So that came. I came with mandatory three to five years in state prison.

Speaker 1: 6:39

So you never up until that, you never said to them I have an addiction. That never came out of your mouth.

Speaker 2: 6:47

Not to that point. Okay, it wasn't up until that point.

Speaker 1: 6:51

Okay, yeah, I'm wondering if it would have been handled differently if addiction was brought up. Maybe now, maybe not then.

Speaker 2: 7:00

Yeah, no, definitely not then. And I can, you know, I can elaborate on that a little bit Once I see they hadn't even, they hadn't even officially charged me yet. Okay, so I had no arraignment.

Speaker 1: 7:11

Yeah, it's still an investigation right now.

Speaker 2: 7:13

Yeah, so they're just investigating it. It goes out to the newspaper that they're investigating it, but before that even happens like we're months away from that that day I get back, I hand them everything. I go back in the house and my girlfriends who were going to be with me that day after I talked to my police captain, you know he's pretty much like oh, don't worry, It'll all be figured out, I'm sure it's. Just I'm thinking to myself yeah, no, no, I won't be coming back.

Speaker 2: 7:43

I don't have to worry about any shifts anymore. You know, and okay, I didn't call my friends and tell them not to come and get me. No, we're going to lake city. Okay, I feel, stressed, right now this happening, it's going on in my head. I do not know where I'm going with this, I do not know how I feel and okay, you know, we're going to, I'm going to keep them coming and we're going to go. So we did do that and I, my whole immediate family, my mom, who lives in New Jersey, is visiting my brother down there. So my immediate family is all in louisiana for christmas, okay, and I'm up here I have to tell them.

Speaker 2: 8:20

You know, all this stuff is going on in my head and I'm like boy, nope, let's just go, we'll worry kind of like worry about it later. Right, let me get my fix and feel better and it'll be fine, let them use my comp so they could get their kids Christmas presents.

Speaker 2: 8:35

I was good like that. You know, I'm the great friend I shared, Right. So we get down there and not even out of the parking garage I go to the first machine. I say first machine, $20. The girls go off to do their thing because I was always the player that look, if you're not playing and you're going to sit here and complain while I'm playing, we're going to have a problem. Okay, this trip's going to be cut short because that machine doesn't work. It's your fault.

Speaker 2: 9:04

So, anyone who came with me pretty much knew just just go do your own thing. I hit that first machine. I don't even like whatever. Put the $20 in, as those reels are coming through. That's when it hits me. I hear that prosecutor in the back of my head say do you have a gambling problem? And then it was like what am I doing here?

Speaker 1: 9:25

oh my god, you know what hello reality yeah this isn't it like, and I just get into this place that I can only explain is darkness well, the pressure that you had been under for literally the last two years was so astronomical that you weren't even feeling it because you were just in your addiction. You were just hoping right your coping skill, I'll be fine as long as I keep doing this. Feeding that habit, feeding that addiction, that's how I cope, I'll be fine. Feeding that habit, feeding that addiction, that's how I cope, I'll be fine. But that amount of pressure that you now have to feel had to just be the weight of the world.

Speaker 2: 10:03

It was. Yeah, I mean, it's something I pray to never have to experience again. I really feel that I'm strong enough now that I won't but, it was, yeah, it was awakening. It was a dark awakening. And it was at that point. I just told him I was like I don't really feel good. You know you guys can go shopping, but now I'm, I'm just out of it and I start to go to that place. Like how can I, how can I live with myself?

Speaker 1: 10:29

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:30

How, how can I face this right now? It's going to be a lot easier if I go away. No, this embarrassment, this shame, this, oh my God. Just, you're a bad person, you're a hard person. The guilt of addiction right there you have become everything you don't like about people. That judgmental part of me that just went out the window, any judgment that I ever had on anyone that went out the window Prior to that, and I'm just saying I was coming home and I was thinking bad thoughts.

Speaker 1: 11:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:12

What do I have at home? What's going to take care of this? I can't do this this no this isn't good. If there's a car accident right now, I don't care what happens to me. You know, just all these thoughts were just there and I had to let my family know and this is going to bring embarrassment and shame to them. You know this is on the news. This is going to be in the papers. It was just like reputation gone. Every time I thought I failed somebody. I just proved them right.

Speaker 1: 11:45

Remember when I said your self-worth had now become tied up in this? Yeah, you're not telling yourself I did a bad thing or I made a mistake. You're telling yourself I am bad, I am this person. That is shame. You're telling yourself I am bad, I am this person. That is shame. You are in the shame cycle deluxe and that is not a good place to be.

Speaker 2: 12:04

It was awful.

Speaker 1: 12:06

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:07

And it wasn't going to be the first time that I was feeling that way, yeah, I can feel it Like as we're talking.

Speaker 1: 12:16

I can like I have the anxiety in my chest and can feel it Like as we're talking. I can like I have the anxiety in my chest and can feel it for you. I know what that feels like. And that's girl. That was a lot. That was a lot.

Speaker 2: 12:27

And that's a big thing too. You know, I, I start, we start to learn empathy. Like what is that? You know, at this point in time it's like whoa, like whoa, you know, and that's something that I gained as my recovery journey started. So, like that night, like I said, I had these things going on and I got in the house and I looked down at my two dogs and I was just kind of like, oh boy, you know now what. And then you know my higher power. I call god.

Speaker 2: 12:57

He came to me at that moment and reminded me of the last time I asked you know, it's like you know I asked what do I do? You know what next?

Speaker 2: 13:08

You know, and then I was like you know when did I ever feel like this before, like when? And it was, you know, in that moment that I was reminded and I think this is like one of the huge parts of how my journey started. And I felt that way 20 years earlier and it was when I lost a friend. I lost a really close friend. We were coming up as police officers together. He had PTSD from serving not gambling related at all, that I'm aware of and as soon as he got his full-time job and everybody was so happy he ended up taking his own life with his duty weapon that he had just gotten over a relationship. And when he left, that's the equivalent to how I was feeling.

Speaker 1: 13:55

I had been to a wedding. You know my younger brother.

Speaker 2: 13:57

We came. That's the equivalent to how I was feeling I had been to a wedding. You know my younger brother. We came. We came back from the wedding and you know there was drinking going on. Like I said, I was old enough. You know we were drinking. We're having a good time. They played the song that's what friends are for at the wedding. And I was like oh boy, and that was it. That's when my crazy talking just starts happening, you know we got a ride home and I wanted to be with him.

Speaker 2: 14:20

How could he leave? You know, I just talked to him like a day before everything was fine, everything you know. And then I also knew that there was times talking to him that I probably could have been like well, I don't want to say I talked him out of it, but I talked him through it that it could have happened earlier. And then, following before the wedding, that day before, the detectives came to my job, to the department I was working at, and they wanted to ask me questions about him because I was one of the last people that he spoke to me questions about him because I was one of the last people that he spoke to.

Speaker 2: 15:02

I'm like, but you know, and then that that was just such a thing for me, you know, and I'm going like that, I'm, I'm jumping back to that moment.

Speaker 1: 15:06

Yeah, because you're you're trying to think of. Have I ever felt like this before?

Speaker 2: 15:09

Yep.

Speaker 1: 15:11

And did you ever deal with it at that time? Did you ever grieve his loss really fully?

Speaker 2: 15:17

I guess not. You know, like I said, I don't think I understood the feelings like I understood them that night.

Speaker 1: 15:26

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:26

Yeah, if that.

Speaker 1: 15:27

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 15:29

You know, because right when they came, like I didn't want to tell these detectives, they knew what happened, you know, and I didn't want to tell them oh well, there was a time, way before you know, when you know, he was like this and he was unstable, and I talked to Matt. I felt like that's what they were trying to get me to do you know, at that time and I was like that's no, I don't.

Speaker 2: 15:50

I don't feel right about that you know, so there were a lot of emotions tied up in that. That you you know, so there were a lot of emotions tied up in that that you kept to yourself, right, that, yeah, you know. So it was kind of like I don't want to tell him that what's done is done yeah like what he, what he said to me a year ago isn't gonna matter that this happened. Now you know that it just didn't. It was, it was poor taste yeah, and I was even more upset, that you know.

Speaker 2: 16:13

I um then police chief allowed them to come while I was working to do this yeah, yeah it was awkward yeah but yeah so. So that moment comes back to me and I remember feeling that way, and that's when my brother had my mom come over and my mom came and we still weren't where we are today you know my mom, but at that moment, if anyone was going to understand how I felt about losing friends, it was totally her, because you know that fields with the ptsd and you know always, okay, she lost a lot of friends that way.

Speaker 2: 16:49

Yeah, so that's when she came over and she said to me she said, christine, the way you feel right now, the way you are feeling everything you think, every emotion you are going through, as bad as you feel. Would you ever, ever, ever want any of us, the people that care about you and love you? To feel that way if you ever took your own life. Thank God, I remembered it that night.

Speaker 1: 17:14

And that's, I think, honestly, you know, your own life. Thank God I remembered it that night and that's, I think honestly, you know. Those are those lessons in our lives that come back and and and that's why it comes back and we don't really understand at the time lessons, blessings, seasons, reasons. You know what I mean, but he could have saved your life.

Speaker 2: 17:30

I believe he did.

Speaker 1: 17:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:32

Yeah, I believe it absolutely did yeah. Yeah, I believe it absolutely did, yeah, and that's yeah. So the next thing I did was I took a deep breath. I said okay, here it is. I started started with the A in accountability. I still have the rest of the word to spell. But I got the A and I picked up the phone and I called the helpline.

Speaker 1: 17:50

Oh, wow, yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:52

I called, I called the helpline, and you know, wasn't quite sure what to expect, but you know, and, and then the and you know what.

Speaker 1: 18:01

So maybe a little different twist with you, christine, is you were in the field of law enforcement and so there's like an extra added layer to that right, yes, of that pressure and that weight on you, like a whole nother layer of it.

Speaker 2: 18:20

Yes, correct.

Speaker 1: 18:21

But I mean like I when I say I can feel. That that's I feel. Energy is that's. You know, that's how I feel life empathetic and energy, and I can literally feel that.

Speaker 2: 18:33

Yeah, that's big.

Speaker 1: 18:33

Yeah, I agree, like I get the same energy from you too.

Speaker 2: 18:34

So that's big. Yeah, I agree, like I get the same energy from you too, so that's crazy.

Speaker 1: 18:38

You know, we're just over and when we were texting, we were just text messaging, you remember, yes, and like I could feel your energy through text message. And when I was listening to your story with lou, I was like literally sitting there talking with you in this story, right, and I'm talking with her and I'm telling Lou I have to talk with her. Like I can't explain it to you, I just need to talk to her. Isn't that interesting? It's so interesting the way that works. I just we're all connected. You know what I mean? Connection is the opposite of addiction and I really believe we're all connected in some way. We're all energy and I just felt that with you and by sitting here and listening to your story and the way that I'm feeling. It's definitely true.

Speaker 2: 19:22

Thank you. The other part of it was because of the, you know the, the brokenness between me and my mom.

Speaker 1: 19:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:33

That kind of opens up a lot for me that I got along better with men than I did with women. So I thought I have friends that I've had girlfriends, like my best friend, above all, and anything you know, we're ride or die Like me and her are.

Speaker 2: 19:49

We've known each other since we were five. You know we have very similar upbringings and we actually worked together when all this was going on. Her father was the fire chief at the time and from the beginning, when it all happened, they were supportive and understanding. You know as they could be, you know. But you know she had it in her head like, well, you pretty much hurt yourself. You know you didn't hurt my children, you didn't. You know, you're not a bad person. She was always my. You know you didn't hurt my children, you didn't. You know you're not a bad person. You know she was always my. You know she was always that person.

Speaker 2: 20:21

And you know, it was almost like there there was forgiveness there you know fusion, yes, but it wasn't being held against me from somebody who mattered my whole life that's good it's good know, but I never I didn't do good with women, I just didn't I couldn't trust them. You know, I always was like you know, I, I'd rather be one of the boys.

Speaker 1: 20:44

I hear it all the time in addiction. I hear it all the time and I was that woman as well. I was that girl growing up and I hear it all the time. But as we get older and as it changes right, you find your soul tribe and you figure out that your soul tribe is women. It's like, oh my gosh, you know what I mean. Yeah, um, it's not just so interesting totally yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:06

And then so, yeah. So when I called that line, they gave me. They gave me the first thing to tell me to get to a gamblers anonymous meeting and I was like, okay, you know. And and I'm writing all the information down. You know, like now you can go online and do anything, you know, but then you know it was like okay, you know, I'm writing this stuff down that she's giving me and telling me.

Speaker 2: 21:28

and I wrote the addresses down and now it's a week before christmas. So I was like, okay, you know, but I knew the meetings would be in full force. You know, um, so it's a week before Christmas. So I was like, okay, you know, but I knew the meetings would be in full force, you know, um, so it's it's a week before Christmas. Yeah, so I'm trying to, you know, get the dates down when the next one is. It's close to me. Okay, get all that.

Speaker 2: 21:49

Then she proceeded to let me know that they have licensed gambling counselors. They are addiction counselors, that you know. They're addiction counselors, but substance addiction. But they have an added thing that they can screen and talk to. You know people who are problem gamblers, right, and I was like OK. So she gave me a couple names, I wrote them down, took the phone numbers. She told me you know, make sure you say you were referred, make sure you say that you were referred and they'll set up an appointment for you. Okay, so that, like I said, that was all on Saturday night. So Monday morning became very busy for me. That was all Saturday night. On Sunday, I don't think I slept much that night, but on Sunday I made the phone call to my brother. I made the phone call to my brother and he was my point of contact. Now, something about my younger brother. Okay, we're a year and nine months apart. He's younger, but I can't BS him.

Speaker 2: 22:56

I cannot BS him. I can't BS him Like I cannot BS. Like I just I can't. And he, I mean it was, you know, it was me and him. I do have a half sister, but it's been me and him since the beginning. We went through life together until he moved and I just couldn't, you know. So I went to him and pretty much put it on him to let everybody down there know, you know, let them know, let his wife know let my mom know, let my dad know this is what we're looking at.

Speaker 2: 23:27

You know, he had to tell us. You know, eventually he had to tell us their kids and and they were young, you know. I mean they were. I think one of them was a teenager, the other ones were, you know under that my nephew was seven.

Speaker 2: 23:41

Nephew was seven at the time, so you know I left that with him. The next thing I did was I started writing an email to my aunts and my uncles, all the ones that are in the local community who are also, you know, police officers, police officers and whatnot. I just wrote this letter trying to explain everything and then it was shortly after that. I remember my cause it was going to. You know, I tried to get it all done before it came out in the paper and that was like pretty much all day Sunday and I remember my brother posted a Bible verse and he basically you know he was talking about he goes hey, you know, the Bible says, you know, sometimes good people may, you know, like going on to good people make decisions, we shouldn't judge them, we shouldn't, you know.

Speaker 2: 24:30

and he just put this whole thing out. That pretty much summed everything up and I was like, okay, I was like my brother's got me, you know, like he this is the way that you know he was showing his support for his sister to kind of cut the nonsense that was going to come.

Speaker 2: 24:45

you know all the judgmental haters I love that yeah, and it was great, it was beautiful when I saw it. Of course, my facebook came down, you know I had to redo that, change my phone number. All these steps had to be taken to happen.

Speaker 2: 25:06

I had to remove myself from my retirement plan. I had to take the hit on that because things didn't get taken and now I had to pay for an attorney and all these things going. So that was Sunday, it was put into the, it was put in the paper. You know that there was an investigation going on about me and then I went to. I got the appointment with um, you know the one therapist. I got the appointment and then I went to. I went to my first meeting and.

Speaker 2: 25:36

I got to the place. You know, um, when I, when I got to the meeting, I went in and I walked into a room and a gentleman came up to me and he asked me he's like you know, he asked me he goes, he goes, he goes. Are you affected by a problem gambler?

Speaker 2: 25:53

And I kind of like no, I am the problem gambler, and he and he's like, oh, you're in the wrong room. So I actually gone to a gammon on room, so he walked me down to where I was supposed to be and as soon as I got into that room Joe, no kidding, it was where I belonged.

Speaker 2: 26:08

I felt it, the one woman you know, great friend of mine now she gave me a box of tissues right off the bat. You know they did what they do in the meeting, Not going to go into it too much, but you know. And then halfway through they ask you the questions. You know, they ask questions and then they say you know, do you think, based on your answers, that you are a compulsive gambler? Like yes, you know. I think at the time I answered 18 yeses. They asked 20 questions, yes or no? I think 18 were, but I'd say a week later I could honestly admit that it was all. 20 were yeses.

Speaker 1: 26:43

Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2: 26:45

Yeah, and so that started that I went to the therapist for the first time, absolutely got along with her phenomenally, you know. I say it now like you know we're, we're at, you know we are in the same circles and she always reminded me of Judge Judy. Okay, like, like, without a doubt, you know this little clip of a thing you know, and it was like all right, I get it, like I'm not going to be able to fabricate anything.

Speaker 1: 27:16

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:23

You know she was just and she was gonna have those comebacks too. But, yes, so I started working with her my first therapist, you know, on a regular basis. It was, you know, for the first time that I started. When I first started seeing her, it was, you know, insurance and I was about to lose my insurance, you know. And I was about to lose my insurance, you know, and I was actually on the phone with the lady telling me about therapy. That was one of my things like as an addict, you know, still having the mindset I'm about to lose my insurance. You're gonna give me a therapist and then what? Like, I don't get to I see her once and I don't get to go because I can't afford it. You, know.

Speaker 1: 27:54

Yeah, you're ready to, we're ready to make everything we can to not go Right.

Speaker 2: 28:01

And I was just like, and she was like no, she goes, listen, there are programs out there. You will get this treatment for free, like what? Okay, so I'm not getting out of this.

Speaker 1: 28:11

You're like okay.

Speaker 2: 28:13

But once I went to her, you know, in the beginning she would not, in the beginning she would not take cash from me because I shouldn't have had any cash.

Speaker 1: 28:23

Right right.

Speaker 2: 28:25

My mom would write a check and she said, nope, I'm not taking that from your mom. You know this is going to come from you. You know this is going to come from you. And until I got on to the grant but no, like she would give it back she's like know, this is this, this is going to come from you. And until I got on to the grant but no, like she would give it back she's like, nope, this is your responsibility.

Speaker 2: 28:42

So it's kind of like I had to get a money order, you know, or you know, find another way, you know, or pay by a card, whatever, but like she was like on point with it, and then eventually I did get onto the program and I was able to see her, you know, on a regular basis. So it's something that this state has that is phenomenal, for you know that.

Speaker 1: 29:04

That's great.

Speaker 2: 29:05

My mom started to come with me before I go any further. So I made the appointment. I went to see her. My mom came back. When my mom came back from Louisiana, I had to pick her up from the airport.

Speaker 1: 29:18

Okay.

Speaker 2: 29:20

And I said it was only a couple of days after she had found out. You know, and this was the first time I was seeing her since everything, came out. So, yeah, I was not looking forward to that either. And I went to the airport and, you know, picked her up, you know she's looking at me and I'm driving, and she broke down.

Speaker 2: 29:42

Like she just broke down and we went to McDonald's. You know, she's like, let's just stop and get something to eat before before you take me home. And I said, okay, and we're sitting in the parking lot of McDonald's and that's when it started. And she's like, did I do something wrong? You know, was it me? You know, was I, was I not good enough? You know, was I not good enough? Why couldn't you know you couldn't come to me? Did I make it that far that I couldn't? And you know, like all this, yeah, blaming herself, blaming herself.

Speaker 2: 30:17

yeah, all the blame you know I'm like mom, this isn't your fault, this is me, this wasn't you. You know like. So that just added a whole nother you know thing to it and you know I started to tell her my plan. My last living grandma passed away right before she passed away, in october and I got the treasure of precision in january and that was my mom's mom okay, okay I know that played a lot into it. You know not grieving, you know like wow, it's the last one she's just here now she's not.

Speaker 2: 30:52

All my grandparents are gone now and I knew all of them.

Speaker 2: 30:56

And now okay you know, and then that was when it catapulted into, you know, into the full-blown addiction that it became. Well, when she passed away, my mom's part of the inheritance ended up going to my lawyer and you know. So you know we were working on that and I was just like you know here's, you know the inheritance were working on that and I was just like you know here's, you know the inheritance left my mom's one of seven. So you know there was a lot of this, but her whole inheritance was going to go towards helping me to get the lawyer and you know.

Speaker 2: 31:28

So it's like let's just add more. You know, let's add more guilt to the pot, but thankfully I was in therapy you know, I was in therapy for this and I was working with her. My mom got to come in and we sat together with my therapist like that was huge you know, that was just huge.

Speaker 2: 31:47

A lot of things started to change and like our relationship got better over the years. This happened and now it was just like off and running, like my mom's. My best friend, my mom, is my rock, and that's where it happens, you know that's where the magic starts yeah so yeah, it was I.

Speaker 2: 32:08

You know, love that therapist. I uh like I didn't have to go switching from one to one to one. It was her for Mm-hmm For that whole period of time and she just taught me through so many things mentally. She taught me some coping skills.

Speaker 1: 32:23

Yes, yes Did some Reiki. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:27

She had incidences in her life. You know that related to my issue. Mm-hmm you know, right down to the mother and daughter relationship too. She had, you know, with her. Yeah, so phenomenal.

Speaker 1: 32:44

You were right where you needed to be right where you needed to be. You landed right where you were supposed to be.

Speaker 2: 32:49

Yep.

Speaker 1: 32:49

You know you've been amazing throughout your life. Like you said, your work ethics. I also got that from my dad. I've been pretty much a workaholic and what that does is we learn to stuff emotion pretty good and we stay busy. Right, stay busy, stay busy, stay busy. And as long as we're staying busy, everything's okay because we're not having to deal with anything, right.

Speaker 2: 33:09

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 33:09

Stuff it a little further. Stuff it a little further. For me it became substance abuse, for you it became gambling addiction. It's really no different. That became our coping skill right and all that stuff that we go through, that we stuff and we mask and that body keeps the score. So it's all in there, right, right. Every time it comes up, what do we do? Step it back down, right down yeah, we'll deal with it later yeah, get that excitement going.

Speaker 1: 33:33

oh, I gotta go to work, I gotta do this, I gotta get another job. I probably need one more thing to do. I probably need to be the treasurer now because I don't have enough to do on my plate. Right, right, we like, it's almost like we add that pressure to ourselves as some kind of addiction in itself. Right, you know, I'm sure you've talked through that with your therapist as well.

Speaker 2: 33:51

Agreed.

Speaker 1: 33:52

And it's just um. I see that I see myself so much in you through this story that I'm like oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 33:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:00

Right yeah, amazing yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:04

So yeah. So the next thing was um, the therapist suggested that I go and see a psych. Okay, big bad. First responder, you're lucky you got me to therapy. Um, okay, yeah, I'll go see. The site Never had any issues. That stigma was there.

Speaker 1: 34:22

Okay.

Speaker 2: 34:22

With the mental health thing again. I'm like I was scared to see the psych. If you had to go and see a psych, some something was bad is going to happen at your job or you know whatever.

Speaker 1: 34:31

And that's the old school thinking. Right, that's the old school thinking that that was bad. Mental health was bad. Yeah, health was bad.

Speaker 2: 34:37

Yeah, yeah, that you know without a doubt. So, like in my head, I was like but you know, hey, no, I was committed to getting the help I needed. However, it worked out.

Speaker 1: 34:52

So I go to my first psych Um he looked like Sigmund Freud.

Speaker 2: 34:54

He was an addictions you know specialist with you know as a psychiatrist, and 15 minutes into my session he was asleep asleep, joee, I kid you not, he was down asleep in the session wow sitting there and I was like is he alive? I don't. What is this?

Speaker 2: 35:10

you know, and I was just like okay. And then he wakes up and then he's like okay, yeah, ocd, you have a compulsive gambling issue. I'm gonna give you prozac and I'm gonna give I'm going to give you Prozac and I'm going to give you. I'm going to give you Prozac and I'm going to give you this other medicine, which was visceral, you know. And okay, all right, set up the next appointment. There was not going to be another appointment. You fell asleep. Guess who I'm telling? You know, I'm like, you know, I'm going to let them know. This is ridiculous, but heavy addiction me would have been like, yeah, I tried to say it didn't work yeah, yeah I'm not going yeah

Speaker 2: 35:45

you know, but that wasn't me, okay, that was not part of my reform. So I got an, you know I, I went, I told them about it, I told them what happened and I said can you please let me see somebody else? This time it was a woman and I sit with her and she does all kinds, like it was so much longer she didn't fall asleep. I thanked her for that and you know she started. They do blood work. You know she does like everything, you know taking these tests and you know quizzes and whatever. And she was like okay, she had the diagnosis. She goes, yes, ocd, because of the compulsive behavior. I'm also a Capricorn by nature, so I think I was born with OCD, but anyway, so okay, I have that. She goes one step further. She's like we got to take PTSD into account.

Speaker 2: 36:32

You were doing all that stuff for almost 20 years, not to mention parents were divorced. You had other things in your past as a kid that you know were not. You know that that happens and you have all of that built up because there was, you know, by an extended family member. I did have some, you know, sexual abuse young. So like this is all. Now this is all coming together and it's all adding up and it's all like oh okay.

Speaker 2: 37:00

So yeah, thed was definitely a thing, and then I got diagnosed as bipolar too. How long was that? I've heard that I've had anxiety since I was three.

Speaker 2: 37:09

Anxiety and nervous disorders are on my dad's side okay without a doubt, like you know they they've always taken anxiety medicine or things for panic attacks, stuff like that. So when she told me bipolar two, I was just like okay, you know. And now here I have all three of these things and if there's something I don't understand, I'm going to have questions. And I'm like bipolar, you know. And she explains, you know, one and two and why she came to that. You know, you know, I was always I was a checker. Okay, like I would drive 20 minutes and be like did I turn the stove off? Yep, you know. Or leave it, leave in, you know, it's part of the OCD too, but you know it would drive me into like craziness. And then if I'm sitting in my house, I was changing furniture around all the time.

Speaker 2: 37:57

I was always moving something you know, and those were my episodes, and then depression. You know, when I was depressed it wasn't you know, it was just like I just didn't want to do anything.

Speaker 2: 38:08

I had no motivation. I don't have to tell you about all that. But so it was like okay. So I started to understand it and I started to put it together and say, okay, I accept this, I accept this. She's prescribed me all the medications and pretty much to this day, the only thing that's changed with my medications is the dosage has decreased. But you know there's certain ones I'm going to be on, you know, all the time. But that's it. And yeah, she's still my psych today. I still have my therapist to this day, still my psych, as if that wasn't a blessing enough.

Speaker 2: 38:41

You know, prior to going into prison, that psychiatrist was a colleague with the psychiatrist who was in the prison oh, wow I didn't have to worry about my medicine getting messed up and they knew I was coming because that was one of my biggest things. It's how is it going to work, you know? So if that wasn't a blessing, no, right Right. So to get back real quick after I got the attorney okay.

Speaker 2: 39:07

After I got the attorney, they sent me to recovery court. What they were doing was they were trying to get me into recovery court so I had. You know, this is where people with addictions since they go. They'll work with programs, whatever. They did have me go, but there's nothing for gambling.

Speaker 1: 39:26

Yep, that's why I was screaming earlier. That's why I was like did you tell them you were an addict? Because this is right.

Speaker 2: 39:33

Yeah, by the time I got to my before we got to the attorney it was in the attorney. When I was talking to the attorney.

Speaker 2: 39:42

I said look, I've started going. You know, I believe that it stemmed from this addiction that I had. You know, I said I've gone to therapy. Now, by the time we met with the lawyer, it was all just like out there. You know, I said I've gone to my first meeting. You know, I've taken, I took it all. I did it all on my like myself. Yeah, I did this, I did that, I did this. So when I went to the attorney, I said here, here's the things that I'm working on right now. This is what I found out. And, um, he's like okay, you know, we're gonna see, you know we'll get you in. But even even the attorney was just kind of like gambling, what like is that? That's a real thing, like you know, it was always perceived like it. No, that's like for like mobsters, and you know people who have hundreds of thousands of dollars that they can you know?

Speaker 2: 40:29

those are the problem. Gamblers me in and they were like, yeah, we really can't do anything. And they? I sat in there. They asked me a bunch of questions, had me fill out a bunch of forms to try to get into a recovery court um and then it was.

Speaker 2: 40:50

Then they did, they gave me the test, you know, and that's another thing. Like I said, there's no biological test for gambling addiction, you know. So they gave me the drug test and then he did that and I came back out and the guy's like, yes, if you were going to get into recovery court, which we can't do he says this would not be accepted. And I'm on, I'm on like for psych med joe, you know, like you know, it wouldn't have been an acceptable test for them to see so it was crazy you know it's just, we're just doing this to go through the motions kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 41:23

And like okay, fine, you know, this is out of the question, you know. I'm just going to take what's given to me. We hired the attorney because, between three and five years, we wanted to keep it at that three, get it to the three years as low as we can get it, and yeah. So then I had the entire year of 2018 between my arraignment and sentencing. I had that entire year, which which worked out because before I went in, I really wanted a full year of recovery.

Speaker 1: 41:53

Okay.

Speaker 2: 41:54

Got to the meetings, got myself a sponsor who is my brother's twin, because I knew I couldn't lie to him. Perfect.

Speaker 1: 42:00

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:01

I did and you know he was great I had. I went to a meeting every single day, joe.

Speaker 1: 42:06

That's great.

Speaker 2: 42:07

What was I doing? I wasn't doing anything else. So I had a meeting for every day, every night, and that was for the whole the whole year. When I went down to Louisiana for a time to see everybody, before you know, I went I even found meetings down there. It just became such a big part of me keeping up with my appointments, keeping up with everything.

Speaker 1: 42:27

And then I did the self-exclusion voluntary self-exclusion for all the you know and online and everything.

Speaker 2: 42:34

Yep, yep, I gambled in five States, so I signed myself out in five States. Wow, that's awesome and back then you had to go in person. Now, now they have it a little bit updated but I had to go in person and in person and get your picture and all that. Yeah, my options were one year, five years lifetime, so I have lifetime self exclusions in those five states.

Speaker 1: 42:56

Nice job.

Speaker 2: 42:57

Yeah, if I. You know, if I even step foot on the property, I get arrested for criminal trespass, you know they have different things in play. So yeah, so then that happens. We got to my um kind of thing, yeah, so I did that like I was just, you know, very much keeping up with whatever I could do. You know what's gonna happen when I go you know I didn't know.

Speaker 2: 43:19

And then sentencing day came, I knew I was getting a three with the two stipulation, so I was going to have to do two years and the third year is going to drop off, and then I just have restitution, no parole, no probation, and I was like, okay, you know, I kind of understood that, but I really didn't a hundred percent. I really thought it was going for three years. I don't know about stipulations and I didn't know about any of that good time and work time and credit, yeah related to me.

Speaker 2: 43:47

Inside they were like no, your max date is that. I'm like what the heck is a max date like?

Speaker 1: 43:52

I was totally like no, you know, and I looked apart, I looked apart so.

Speaker 2: 43:58

So then my sentencing day came, me and my mom walked in. You know, the reporters were there, my attorney was there, the big prosecutor came out for the dog and pony show it was. You know, I spent money on dry cleaning and a grocery store and you would have thought that I bought yachts and, you know, bought a couple houses on the countryside. You know this is how they blew it up. Yeah, of course it was all right that was their, thing, you know, bought a couple houses on the countryside.

Speaker 2: 44:22

You know this is how they blew it up. Yeah, of course it was all right, that was their thing. You know they gave me that deal that they gave me and so, yeah, when I walked in I think there's about 20, I had 21, 22 members of Gamblers Anonymous were there in the court on my sentencing day, knowing I was going, knowing I was going to prison, regardless, a lot of people wrote letters.

Speaker 2: 44:45

My family members wrote letters, friends from my you know departments. They wrote letters, you know, on my behalf to the judge. My sponsor spoke. My sponsor's sponsor spoke. I read what I read. You know all of that and I found out just recently it was at my last celebration the way that they said it was.

Speaker 2: 45:06

They had never seen a judge more remorseful about handing down a sentence than they did that day and it was like okay, and it meant the world to me because my mom didn't have to leave that courtroom, they were all around her.

Speaker 1: 45:18

Yeah, absolutely, I wasn't going to be that courtroom. They were all around her.

Speaker 2: 45:20

Yeah, absolutely I wasn't going to be with her. So, um yeah. So then, um off, I went county jail, cried the first three nights um I had to be put by myself because I'm known in the county. So that kind of added another, like another target I want to say it was like what's the point there? You know, they know you know, but whatever they wanted to protect me, put me in you know, by myself.

Speaker 1: 45:45

So which was okay because, like I said, I sobbed in that so, trust me, it's actually better, yeah, better especially those first few days yeah, and then the state came and got me in off to New Jersey's women prison.

Speaker 2: 46:02

It's closed now. It was that dilapidated.

Speaker 1: 46:05

Was it a private? Was New Jersey's women privately funded or was it public? It was public, oh, state Okay.

Speaker 2: 46:14

Yeah, they were. We only have one and it was. Yeah, the buildings were breaking down. It wasn't the most pleasant of places yeah but like it was, um, when they classified me, I can a hundred percent, you know, and I'm not just saying it's just where they classified me to was not where I was gonna end up, you know they.

Speaker 2: 46:38

they classified me into the equivalent of if you had a kindergarten class and you locked the teacher in the closet. That was the unit I was put in. We had little cottages and that's where we were and, yeah, it was the equivalent of that.

Speaker 2: 46:54

Okay, I just kept myself down. I got sewing. For what was it? 70 cents a day, you know I was in the sewing area. Then eventually I got moved to a much better unit older people, you know and and then after about six months they said I could go to halfway house. But here, in order to get to a decent halfway house, you had to come off your psych meds, get accepted and then go back on them. When you got there, I know, and you know I'm sitting there like I don't know any of this, I don't talk to people, I don't. But I was like, okay. So instead I got sent to a treatment center that was run by. So it was a privatized treatment center, but it was part of the New Jersey corrections.

Speaker 1: 47:41

Okay, so like a live-in treatment center.

Speaker 2: 47:44

Yes, it's a live-in treatment center they called it a halfway house because they could get you jobs and you could go out.

Speaker 1: 47:50

Okay.

Speaker 2: 47:50

But if you didn't, it was basically barbed wire fencing all over. It was a prison treatment center. We could wear our own clothes okay, and it was closer to home because I, oh I, never, I didn't even put my mom on the list. I had no family members on my visitor list you want anybody to see you, I'm gonna. I did not want it, I, especially family. Like my sponsor came you know I had friends from ga that came up.

Speaker 2: 48:17

They were on there, but I would not do that because I did not want especially my mom to see me in that jumpsuit.

Speaker 1: 48:25

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:26

That was not going to happen.

Speaker 1: 48:27

I did the same. I didn't have anybody come see me either, cause it's just too much. It's just too much.

Speaker 2: 48:32

Yeah, no, it was friends that you know. Like I said, friends from program people you know, recovery people that's who you know came and were allowed. When I got to the treatment center though it was a little bit easier. It was closer to my house so my mom could come, you know, they could always bring us stuff when she'd come to visit. I was in regular clothes. It was just like rehab. Yeah, you know, yeah, and so that you know that was a lot easier for her to, you know, to deal with. I was 45 minutes away instead of two hours.

Speaker 1: 49:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:06

And so. So that was that. Now I have to say in the treatment center, like I never got, I did all the work, I did everything I was supposed to but, I just did. They never got me a job. Okay, I don't think I was taken seriously in the treatment center either. We're not taking, not not taking seriously. I had a phenomenal therapist who gave me a one-on-one gamblers anonymous meeting, because the whole time, the whole time I'm there, I never had GA. I never had anyone specifically talking about gambling.

Speaker 1: 49:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:39

I had, like the people that would, doctors, that would babysit us at night in the treatment center doing their scratch offs, like right there in front of me, Like it was. It took a lot of strength, you know. And, and how did I? How did I get through it? Okay, Well, first thing is people ask me how did you not gamble in prison? Well, everyone had a job, right? Is it your day to go get ice? Is it your day to clean the wing? Is it your, you know? So that's what I do. I just do their jobs and then they give me some ramen or you know we're getting doing jobs to get commissary doing jobs to get commissary right.

Speaker 2: 50:14

You know and just you know random things and I just stayed away from the gambling that was going on. Yeah, you know if anybody was doing any of that. I didn't want to be part of that Same thing in the treatment center, but I, every time I had to sit through an AA meeting, every time I had to sit through NA, every time they talked about substances, the only thing that worked for me was that I changed the word in my head. Yep, I changed the word, you know. Change it to gambling.

Speaker 1: 50:41

Yep.

Speaker 2: 50:42

You know and I remembered the similarities and differences and you know, there was all kinds of things and like we had one week where they kind of talked about it and they actually asked me to talk about it Like it's your job, this is my job, but you know, but I did your job, this is my job, but you know, but I did. And then you started to see the other women going well, wait, I know somebody who's like that Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 51:08

Well, you know, wait, you know it kind of you know opens it up a little bit. Yeah, gambling is definitely an intertwined addiction with substance use also.

Speaker 2: 51:14

It co-occurs or you can replace it.

Speaker 1: 51:17

Absolutely, and it's, and it's the silent, the silent one, right, and so it's the scene version. You know they talk about it all the time. As far as you know, you're up for three days, you're going to the casino, right, yeah, um, and so it's definitely co-occurring and and it's treated a little different now than it was back. You know, back then, for sure, but you have to be certified in gambling addiction itself. But you did the right thing, because the 12 steps are the 12 steps, right, whether it's AA, na, codependency, cocaine, anonymous sex, anonymous, whatever, the 12 steps are still the 12 steps and you still have to be in acceptance and you still have to surrender and you still have to find your higher power. So I'm glad that you were able to see that and do that for yourself and not sit there and be in your addiction and say this isn't for me, this isn't for me, poor me, poor me, poor me, right, because that very easily happened, right.

Speaker 2: 52:14

Yeah, absolutely you know. So I was there, you know, doing that and then and then, like the shortly after, I guess the conditions were crazy. I know we've been talking for a while here In 2020, april of 2020 is when I got COVID and I showed symptoms of COVID while I was at the treatment center.

Speaker 2: 52:37

OK now they didn't have to test out yet or anything Like they, just barely. It was only it hadn't even been out for a month yet. They had just barely gotten their protocols together. I started to not feel good. We had to fill out these forms every day and once I showed symptoms, they took my temperature and they were like okay, now we got to do something with you.

Speaker 1: 52:56

Well, you hadn't even left the treatment center, though.

Speaker 2: 52:58

No, exactly, it was brought in.

Speaker 1: 53:01

Okay.

Speaker 2: 53:01

Because they had the counselors and the people that were going to work coming in and out.

Speaker 1: 53:05

Right All the time.

Speaker 2: 53:07

And we were in a four room. The treatment center was a four room shower, like day space four rooms for living and the shower and bathroom.

Speaker 1: 53:18

Okay.

Speaker 2: 53:18

That was the extent of it All on one side of the hallway. So yeah, and there were seven women to a room, 28 of us, seven to each room wow so that was that. So it was very easy to have caught something yeah, absolutely and yeah, so they put me in. They told me to get into my khakis, which is what we wore when we went back to Clayton back to the prison. They put me in a quarantine room.

Speaker 2: 53:44

I was able to call my mom from that room and let her know that I have symptoms of COVID and they're not taking me to a hospital, they're taking me back to prison.

Speaker 1: 53:54

Why would they take you back to prison?

Speaker 2: 53:57

They didn't know what they were doing. I yeah, so they. They took me back to prison and they put me in a hazmat suit. Well, actually they were deciding what they were going to do with me for 45 minutes while I was sitting outside the prison. Oh, my goodness um in a car transfer car and they finally said, yeah, we'll take her in here. You know, they had set up their quarantine, their quarantine rooms, for the people were in um maximum security, solitary confinement cells they were holes okay, it was disgusting um, but yeah, so that's where they were putting.

Speaker 2: 54:36

Anybody that showed you know, showed it wow and we went and, um yeah, so they put me in a hazmat suit. They took everything I had. I only had my c-pat machine. Thank god, because I know that that helped me with my respiratory part of the covid, because it was new and there were women dying around me you know, it took them three nights to get me a blanket.

Speaker 2: 55:00

Nobody wanted to come near you. They would come check your vitals, like every two minutes, you know every, you know every two hours they were coming to check vitals. They were giving us cold packs, which you know, yeah, a cough drop, a zyrtec, you know a motrin and you know an antibiotic, antibiotic that was going to help COVID, there were no tests yet.

Speaker 2: 55:21

There were no tests right away. They didn't have an extra set of khakis or clothes that would fit. They'd give me pieces here and there. I had nothing with me because you know, when you transfer from place to place. I had no phone calls, I had no commissary.

Speaker 1: 55:39

No money on your books.

Speaker 2: 55:40

Because they took everything and that was a very long month. When they brought the food, they put it on the ground. They were in hazmat suits and they put it on the ground for me to pick up. Yeah, so it was definitely in that moment, the time that I spent in that cell. That was definitely the part where I said, christine, if you don't think gambling, if you don't think that gambling has ruined your life, then you have more mental problems than you think. You have, without a doubt, a lot of reflection. In that moment I was a big journal person.

Speaker 2: 56:17

I wrote down everything that helps me. I still do Every night. I journal it so it's not on my head and I can go to sleep and just spend my thing.

Speaker 2: 56:25

And I couldn't even do that there For that whole month. I couldn't do it, I didn't have anything, I had nothing. My mom could only call the prison and find out if I was alive or dead. There was no other information being given to her. At the end of the time, after they got the test, they said yes, I had it.

Speaker 2: 56:41

At the end of the time they took me out and they said that you know, they were putting me somewhere else, taking me out of quarantine. And I was out of quarantine for about six hours. I was able to take a shower, I was able to do some laundry, I was able to eat at a table, know, and you know, just have, you know, have some time, you know, to get things together. And then they came and got me and said that they were putting me back in where I was because the new protocol said you had to go five days without a fever and I had only done four before they took me out and they put me back in for five days oh my god back where I was.

Speaker 2: 57:20

Then they quarantined the unit I was in. So I just made a whole lot more friends, because they're quarantined for two weeks and I'll be out in five days. So that's what happened. They took me out and then they started to talk about home confinement, went on home confinement, okay um like.

Speaker 2: 57:35

Sent you home confinement yeah, they sent me, they offered me to go on home confinement. What they were doing was they were trying to take the people out of the prison. So you're, you know, you're, you know, non-violent criminals and not a liability anymore yeah, you know that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 57:52

Um, they were, yep, you, you had covid, you have other things. So you're qualifying for us to do what we're doing right now. We're sending people on home confinement. You're still under arrest. You're qualifying for us to do what we're doing right now. We're sending people on home confinement. You're still under arrest. You're still part of you know, you're, you're still an inmate, but we're going to put a bracelet on you and tell you you can go home and that's what it meant.

Speaker 2: 58:11

You, I couldn't even walk like a step out of the house If that bracelet got too close to the door. It was going off. But they put me on that. Um, and then that was, uh, the Friday before mother's day. They let me, they let my mom come and get me. Um, mom came and got me and I got home. Now I, you know, I said I had two dogs while I was gone. Um, I had family that was taking care of one in one. My mom had my one dog and when I was in the treatment center so I was gone nine months and my eight year old, the girl she passed away. So, yeah, she had like a total panic attack and you know she had some things going on. They were my mom was ready to get her the surgery and she just went on her own.

Speaker 2: 58:56

She was like no, so I had lost her while I was in there. And then I came out when I went on home confinement, my other guy, you know, my 15, 13 at the time. He came home, so he came back and now, instead of catching up on Netflix, it was great because my Gamblers Anonymous meetings were now online, thanks to COVID.

Speaker 1: 59:17

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:18

Okay, that was online. I got my therapist back. Okay, she did teletherapy. I got my psych back. Teletherapy. Everything started to come back for me and it was my therapist who said hey, you know, there's a conference going on. It's a bunch of providers, you know, this group puts it on, can't really say anything, but the group puts it on and I'm going to get you on a scholarship so you can attend the conference because it's virtual. So this is where I start putting like all kinds of things together and this is where I start to have my plan going. Wait, there's got to be something I can do. I could do the helpline. That would be perfect for me. You know I can do a helpline. How do I help a problem? You know how do I help a gambler, how do I make sure that people don't end up like me? And now I'm starting to understand a lot more about the addiction you know, and how important lived experience is you?

Speaker 2: 1:00:18

know there's all these like it. Just I got my plan. You know, I like to say I have a plan. All right, I don't do plan B, plan C, plan D, because if I'm too busy planning them, I'm taken away from that big plan and okay. So eventually I get off from home confinement. It was seven months. Okay, so I got two months off my original sentence, november 4th of 2020, I was done. They came, they cut the bracelet off. Like I said, I had no parole, no probation, I just paid my restitution.

Speaker 1: 1:00:47

Wow.

Speaker 2: 1:00:48

And I said, okay, you know, started going back to my meetings that were in person, found this little part-time job packing boxes in a warehouse, just to you know, get back out there doing everything I was supposed to After two years, you know, get back out there doing everything I was supposed to after two years, you know, it was like two years went by and I lost.

Speaker 2: 1:01:05

I lost my other guy. Um, he passed away, but I, they told us I have six months with him at one point and we got like two more years out of it. Yeah, so he passed away at 15 and then so, yeah, so then within a month, um, I was still on the email list for a agency that helps. I went to the interview. I thought I was just going to be doing a helpline, you know, helping people who call in that need, like I did. Yeah, and in that interview I was kind of promoted and now I'm a prevention specialist, that's great.

Speaker 2: 1:01:38

As of yeah, as of 2023, I got hired as a prevention specialist. That's great. As of yeah, as of 2023, I got hired as a prevention specialist. Recently got my you know, prevention specialist started working you know, became this public speaker you know, going to schools talking to people, and then last year I got my international gambling recovery specialist certification. Good for you I found my passion yeah, purpose, your purpose is back, yeah I found my purpose yeah my colleagues are like your enthusiasm for our mission and what we do is infectious you know I get complimented all the time the time, but I'm like, I'm just me, I'm just me, and you don't know how, and I tell them all the time.

Speaker 2: 1:02:24

I don't end with if I can do this, you can do this. You know I end with. Everyone has a story and you might not realize how much your story can help someone.

Speaker 1: 1:02:33

Absolutely. It's all about hope and encouragement and turning that mess into a message finding your purpose, because that's really what we are searching for in this lifetime, right? What's the next thing? What's the next thing? Where's my sense of belonging? If I just work harder, if I just do this better, if I just get better in my job, they'll promote me. Right? Really, all we're searching for is our purpose, and you found it and, yes, it was a whirlwind getting there, absolutely, but everything happens for a reason, right? I'm sorry that you had to go through all of it to get to it, but I can see, looking at you and just talking to you, you are living your purpose and that means more than anything. Really, it truly, truly does.

Speaker 2: 1:03:16

I do, I love it. I love every minute now. You know, I don't call it a job, I don't even call it work, it's just. You know, it's just me and I couldn't. I'm so blessed, I'm so grateful. You know, I don't think I would have been able to handle a lot of stuff that has happened to me. You know, I lost my dad it was a year, april to cancer and I don't think that you know, I still remind myself to grieve that, however long it's going to take.

Speaker 1: 1:03:46

Yes.

Speaker 2: 1:03:47

But you know there's been things that I went through, you know. You know a miscarriage not that it was planned. You know a bad relationship, a, you know, bad situation, all these things that have happened that if I was still in that fight or flight or, you know, in the grips of something having to make me feel better, it would not have had the same ending. It does not have the same results. Yeah, you know, in the grips of something having to make me feel better, it would not have had the same ending. It does not have the same results. You know I don't have an outlet.

Speaker 1: 1:04:12

You've learned how to process emotions through all of this.

Speaker 2: 1:04:15

Oh yes.

Speaker 1: 1:04:16

And actually feel something right and realize that it's okay to feel. Nobody dies from that, right.

Speaker 2: 1:04:23

Nope.

Speaker 1: 1:04:23

Learning how to feel, and I this is what I tell everybody like, you have to get it out so you don't keep choking on it. Right, it has to come up, it has to come out, otherwise you keep choking on it and it keeps going back down. Right, just, we can spit it out once and for all. Right, and so that's. That's the truth, though, right, you learn to process your emotions and handle things differently. And people, you know, we're just taught from such a young age not to feel. Don't cry, suck it up, it'll be fine, you'll be fine. Be a big girl, pull up your big girl panties. For boys too, right, boys too, you know, men don't cry. And so teaching, teaching us all how to just stuff our emotions our whole life instead of let's just feel the feels and move on. You know, and learning that is just invaluable. It truly is, so I am very happy for you. How different do you see the world now, with your thought process, your empathy and everything, after being the one that was in prison? How do you see it?

Speaker 2: 1:05:22

I am so optimistic, it humbled me beyond belief. Okay, there are things that I'm still reminded. You know, there's times where I'm still reminded how much I took for granted, not realizing it. Number one showers. Okay, like I every time I go into a shower, since, like every single time, it sounds so silly but it's like like no, you don't get it, like.

Speaker 2: 1:05:48

I'm grateful for this right now yeah like I'm just you know, it's just like, yeah, that you know it was, that I think it like I said, it definitely taught me to not be so judgmental you know, I had that inflated thing, like I told, told said earlier like no, bad people are bad people. You do bad things, you're bad yeah now, you're the person in there. Do I believe I deserve to be where I was, absolutely Okay. Do I regret what I did? Of course, but do I regret that? You know, I did it and this was my consequence? Absolutely not.

Speaker 2: 1:06:22

You know, like I just have, that, you know, there's the line there.

Speaker 1: 1:06:26

Yeah, yeah, accountability, the big A yes Right.

Speaker 2: 1:06:29

Accountability every single day. You know I am accountability. It started. You know I've definitely seen a big difference in what I can control and what I can't.

Speaker 1: 1:06:38

Things we can control and things we cannot. Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 1:06:41

Yep, definitely see a big, big change there and big change there, and I'm an active listener now you know, I can listen, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:06:52

I learned that empathy thing, you know it's huge and I'm a helper.

Speaker 2: 1:06:54

You know I'm more of a helper than I was helping out the community and all the things I was doing. You know this is more gratifying yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:07:04

You know just reaching one person when I'm at a presentation, or you know I'm speaking to, you know a high school, or you know anything I'm doing, especially with youth, and you know just one person coming to me and saying I didn't even think this was a thing. Or you know one person knowing that helpline number, like that, that to me is a payday. Yeah, it's a payday. Like that, that to me, is a payday.

Speaker 1: 1:07:26

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:07:26

It's a payday.

Speaker 1: 1:07:27

A hundred percent, a hundred percent. And you know, I always tell people it's. You know, connection is truly the opposite of addiction. We have to stay connected in our recovery. Yeah, we have to stay connected in our recovery community because that's what keeps us in recovery Right and that 12th step of sharing the principles and all our affairs right. We have to be able to share the message and share it with other people and share it effectively. And you never know when someone's going to hear the one little thing that sticks right. You never know. Like you said, someone comes to you at the end of it, or someone emails you or sends you a message, and that feeling of helping somebody up, not a handout but a hand up.

Speaker 2: 1:08:07

Yes.

Speaker 1: 1:08:07

Is is the most the biggest blessing I've ever had in my life, I think, other than my son, of course. I think it's the biggest blessing I've ever had is is that really um and and learning how to be grateful.

Speaker 2: 1:08:20

Yeah, it's so true, it really is. And you know, now I just you know, I'm more optimistic you know, and I still, you know, I noticed that. You know there's times where I'm okay with my solitude, yeah, Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:08:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:08:34

You know it doesn't put me in a bad place. You know, I'm just one day at a time. I'm sustained in recovery. I just I'm seven and a half years now one day at a time, and you know, it's just my finances started. They always say it's, it's a financial thing. That's usually the first thing everyone thinks, and I'm like. Nope, it's mental, nope, it is the most emotional.

Speaker 1: 1:08:57

That's mental.

Speaker 2: 1:08:59

And you know, I know all the other addictions are, but I think gambling has the most highest rate.

Speaker 1: 1:09:05

Highest suicide rate yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:09:07

High suicide rate yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:09:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:09:09

And every single addiction. It's there and that's where that, like I said, that's where I find that emotional part of it. You know that trauma, it creates the trauma. You know when you're doing, you're in the middle of it. So it has a very high emotional thing and lately we've seen it's becoming a big public health issue.

Speaker 1: 1:09:29

Yeah, it's huge and it's so much pressure. The pressure of gambling addiction and money stigma on top of it is so much. It's a lot of pressure to hold. Yes.

Speaker 2: 1:09:40

And we can't get away from it. It's just becoming more and more accessible.

Speaker 1: 1:09:44

Yeah, it's everywhere yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:09:45

The youth in their games and their video games, us just. You know I'm a sports fan. I never I didn't sports gamble, because when it became legal I was already a year in recovery. But you know, I'm a sports fan and it drives me nuts. I'm like you can't even enjoy a game without some stats and I'm like you gotta be kidding me. I just want to watch the game.

Speaker 1: 1:10:06

Yeah, I just want to watch some football.

Speaker 2: 1:10:07

You know like please just let me yeah you're right.

Speaker 1: 1:10:11

Well, so and and so. Now you have a purpose. You have a better relationship with your mom and your family, better relationship with your community.

Speaker 2: 1:10:21

Yes, absolutely. Last November I actually was in the same circle at the same event, like I said, my best friend, her husband, got promoted and when we were there I ran into all the officers I used to work with and they were happy to see me.

Speaker 1: 1:10:40

That's awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:10:42

They told me they were proud of me. Some of them even asked me questions because they were concerned about loved ones. Yeah, and they were all just. You know, it was so welcoming and it was such closure for me. You know, it happened on my mom's birthday as well, and my mom said that that was the best birthday present she ever could have gotten was seeing me you know, cause I started off, you know, I just wanted to be in the corner you know I didn't want to draw any attention to myself and they were all coming to me.

Speaker 2: 1:11:12

So my mom said, like that was that was, the best present she ever could have gotten was seeing how those relationships came back.

Speaker 1: 1:11:21

That's beautiful, that's really beautiful. You know, addiction does not discriminate, let's, let's be clear here. It does not discriminate on status, on wealth, on color, on race, on anything. Addiction is addiction and mental health does not discriminate. And you know, I think that learning curve of learning that when you're in prison and you're around everybody and you're seeing how everybody else grew up and things they've been through, you just learn a whole lot about people in the world and see things a lot differently. And that's why I asked you that, like how differently do you see the world now? Because it was huge for me, profound difference in the way that I saw the world.

Speaker 2: 1:12:02

It's actually. It's actually beautiful. You know it really is. You know to be able to see someone and you know, like, when you're out to dinner like I always use this like say, you go out to dinner and you know that, like you're with somebody and they're like, you know, this waitress is horrible. You know like. Oh my gosh, you know they're getting very impatient, you know. And then it's like I look at it and say, how do you know? This isn't her third job today.

Speaker 2: 1:12:28

Yeah, you don't know how do you know that that tip she's counting on to get milk for her kids.

Speaker 1: 1:12:34

Yeah, you know it's a total shift. Yeah, you don't know what someone else is going through, just freaking, be kind. It costs you nothing, right, it costs you nothing. Just be kind. And you cannot assume what somebody else's life is like by the way they look, the color of their skin, the money that they have, addiction and mental illness just does not discriminate. So we have to be kind and I think it's amazing that there's people like you out there.

Speaker 2: 1:13:00

You know there's, you know the therapist and there's more people coming on to be able to be that hand you know to, you know to be able to. Hey, you can come to me.

Speaker 1: 1:13:12

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:13:12

It's going to be okay. I'm a safe space.

Speaker 1: 1:13:15

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 1:13:16

You know, and seeing more of that definitely helps you know what we're trying to do.

Speaker 1: 1:13:23

There has to be, has to be a safe space and your people that come to you have to trust you. And that doesn't come from telling someone to trust you. That comes from lived experience. That's it. I truly believe that it comes from purpose, passion and lived experience and being able to connect and relate without having to try or push it right.

Speaker 2: 1:13:42

Lived experience. I'm huge on that. I'm huge on that. Anybody I've ever listened to and learned from the most had lived experience.

Speaker 1: 1:13:50

Absolutely. I 100% agree with that. And let me be clear here I am by no means a therapist and do not claim to be one. I am a peer recovery support specialist. That's it. I've been doing recovery coaching for I don't even know how many years now, many years recovery coaching for I don't even know how many years now, many years.

Speaker 1: 1:14:11

And I it was a God thing Told me I needed to go into the treatment section, that I needed to do this in a different way. I can't even explain it how it happened just happened. And there I was. It was so all of a sudden. And I am a group facilitator at a treatment center so I get to work with you know, a room of people at a time which does turn into one-on-one when they want to come and sit with you. One-on-one, right, of course, but I love them. I mean I. I absolutely love them. That little room is our safe space and our family and our community and I just absolutely love them. And I can't even imagine now not working with groups of people in some way or form.

Speaker 1: 1:14:54

Amen, yeah Well, thank you. So so much. I really appreciate your time. I know we've I've taken up a ton of your time and I appreciate it so much because, like I said, just being able to offer that lived experience and hope and encouragement that someone else can hear and learn from and and understand that addiction doesn't discriminate, that's really important to me because I absolutely that judgmental side of it can be real and, um, it's not a judgment thing, it's a compassion and support thing that's needed. So thank you for sharing that because I really thank you. That came across very much, thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:15:38

Thank you for what you do. This is great.

Speaker 1: 1:15:40

This is great. I loved it very much. I knew I would love our conversation, and again, not your story. Your journey, you know, truly it's a journey of life and you're right where you're supposed to be.

Speaker 2: 1:15:52

Thank you, thank you.