Join us this week as we navigate the horrifying yet fascinating world of 'The People Under the Stairs'. With our special guest co-host Micah, we pick apart the intricate symbolism, from the dog targeting black men to the dolls made by Alice. We further scrutinize the portrayal of law enforcement in the film, contemplating their apparent incompetence in connecting the dots from a liquor store robbery to the family living in the house.
Join the Black Ass Movie Club
Join us this week as we navigate the horrifying yet fascinating world of 'The People Under the Stairs'. With our special guest co-host Micah, we pick apart the intricate symbolism, from the dog targeting black men to the dolls made by Alice. We further scrutinize the portrayal of law enforcement in the film, contemplating their apparent incompetence in connecting the dots from a liquor store robbery to the family living in the house.
Join the Black Ass Movie Club
I'm scared what's out there, and we're like black people.
Brooklyn:Welcome back to the black ass movie podcast, where we are putting together the quintessential list of black ass movies that you must watch. I'm Brooklyn, I'm DJ and today we actually have a guest host on with us today, um introducing a friend of ours, dancer all the ground, creative Micah is here in the studio with us for spooky movie month.
Micah:Micah say hello, hey y'all, welcome to the pond. Welcome to the pond, thank you. Thank you for having me.
Brooklyn:All right. So today we are watching the 1991 comedy horror film the People Under the Stairs.
TJ:Now Micah before tonight?
Brooklyn:had you seen this movie before I had?
Micah:not seen this movie before.
Brooklyn:Great. So what about yourself?
TJ:Um. So here's the thing. I feel like I've seen bits and pieces of this, but I did not know that this was the movie, because the whole, I guess, if I skip ahead a little bit the whole dynamite section. I definitely remember him saying those lines, gotcha, so I'm like I think I've either seen it in passing or like pieces on TNT or something.
Brooklyn:Yeah, that wasn't a pun, I wasn't trying to Um, so this movie opens in a city. We're still not sure what city this is, because it feels like in the beginning it feels like it's probably New York, maybe the Bronx, there in like this tenement building kind of thing. But then we get to the house and there are definitely palm trees everywhere. So we have to be shooting in California, but we don't know if the movie is the story takes place there, or is it just they shot there?
Brooklyn:Um, we get kind of a brief synopsis of the story that this family is the last people living in this building and the landlord is evicting them after three days of being behind. If they don't, if you don't pay the rent, then it has to be, you have to pay triple. I think that is the thing.
Brooklyn:So, you know, what's really funny to me about this movie is that I've seen it a bunch of times and I never I don't think I ever thought about some of the themes that are in this movie until tonight, really, that it is like a story of of urban revitalization, gentile.
TJ:If gentrification of like people walking.
Brooklyn:I was going to say that but then I always messed the word up because is it ginger for Cation? Like ginger Ginger? But I never, really I never saw that theme throughout the entire film. I said that's what it really what it's about. Their whole reason that they go to the house is to steal money that these people have been hoarding for decades and decades, and decades.
TJ:At this point, because if you look at the block, it's completely, almost desolate of like things that are there- I will say when we started this, it I would I would probably say maybe like half an hour in it was giving me like Disney Channel vibes slash like a Goosebumps episode not so much like horror and especially knowing that Wes Craven was a part of this, I'm like this doesn't feel at all like a style.
Brooklyn:Yeah, let's go. He's my favorite director. Yeah, he wrote and directed this film.
Micah:Yeah, Just so you know. I definitely got the goosebump vibe and it's. It's funny that they label it as a horror slash comedy, because I wasn't scared, but I definitely laughed a lot.
Brooklyn:Yeah, yeah. I think I think the reason I saw this movie, or was allowed to see it, so early is because it did fit on that line of like comedy horror, like I never remember being like scared of this movie, but definitely more of like a kid friendly thriller.
Micah:Yeah.
Brooklyn:But it is classified as a horror? I will ask this question because I didn't think about it until now. When I picked this movie, I was just like, oh yeah, I love this movie and the protagonist is black and it's really a black story to me, but would you say this is a black movie?
TJ:No, so I was going to say that I think when we first put it on, that was my first question, because the thumbnail forward on Peacock if you want to watch it, it's on Peacock. The thumbnail is like of a white person, so I was very confused. I was like, wait, yeah.
Brooklyn:It's a roach in the little girl. Yeah, alice, yeah, I was like is this a black movie?
TJ:And probably by the time he's stuck in the house, that's when I'm like, oh, got it. Okay, that's what we're doing. It's his story. Yeah, quotes, but not really a black horror movie, right, I don't know.
Micah:I feel like it's a black movie in terms of perspective, because we start in the black family's home. The story is technically about. The story is about them. The plot is not the plot. It's about this white family doing a lot of creepy stuff which we'll get into. But I was a little let down at how little screen time most of the black people in the movie had other than the main character. Yeah, I guess the follow up question would be to.
Brooklyn:That is. And then it's something like a get out a black film, because in a film like that we're very much exploring this kooky white family and the majority of it is them and this thing that's happening and you're watching it unfold through the eyes of a black main character. So if we consider something like you know, the black family, the black family get out a black movie. Why is this one different? Because most of the character, most of the white characters in this movie are representing fears of black people or people of color Right?
TJ:See, I would. I would classify get out as a black movie, mainly because it is. It solely focuses on him and his journey of trying to get out, whereas this one it's not just him, it's also him and the girl.
Brooklyn:Okay.
TJ:Or at least the character. The character's motivation is to also bring her out, to not to just save himself, Whereas get out it was all about him saving himself.
Brooklyn:But do you think that that speaks to I'm not going to just say black people, but people of color in general? It's like their sense of wanting to help when they see something wrong happening.
TJ:Well, that's a so.
Micah:I feel like it's it's kind of. It's kind of um, I'll just say, annoying Mm hmm, that it felt like he was trying to be a savior for her. It wasn't annoying on her behalf, like, yes, I wanted her to come out alive and well, but it's like there were so many out. But the reason why I don't feel like this is a black story, because he got out a lot of times and went back specifically to save a bunch of white people, not even just her, but also the people under the stairs which, separately from whether it's a black or white story, I was surprised at how much I cared about them the people under the stairs.
Micah:And I would just say it now. My big point was when I hear the people under the stairs as a title, it makes it seem like those are the villains, and it turns out that they were the victims. Mm, hmm, and this young black protagonist is quite literally saving everyone, yeah.
Micah:And the neighborhood. So I guess in that sense it could be a black story, Um, but the way that the actual film manifested is kind of like he was just a vessel for something else and he saved his family, seems like as a mere result of all the other things he was doing, which was personally driven. Can I?
Brooklyn:do. Would you feel differently if, say, they were stealing black children and Alice was a black child? Yes, would we feel differently about the movie then?
Micah:Yes, Okay, I think I would feel more. I would feel like it was speaking more to saving. I mean, think about when this movie came out in the 90s right Like we weren't even.
Micah:I mean we aren't anywhere really now, but we were definitely less. So I feel like it would have been more monumental for the time it came out if those people were black. Now initially I would have probably be probably have been upset that this white family was stealing black people, because there were already, I mean the first scenes. They say a word I'm not sure we can say on this podcast, but I'm sure you guys out there can use your imagination.
Micah:Well, if you want to say it, I mean they say in the beginning, so it's like um, um, um just to make sure that we can play everywhere. Mm-hmm. So you guys understand what that means In the beginning, so it. That would have really left a bad taste in my mouth had the victims been black also. Now, if everyone was black, including the crazy brother and sister, then who cares Well, that's the remake.
TJ:That's the remake.
Brooklyn:There is a remake, no, but I'm saying my envisioning of it is because there's a lot of social commentary in this movie is that if they did a remake today, they made everybody black, that the story would very much be about the black element that is removed, that don't see other black people as the same as them, the 1% black people, pretty much. Now that's something that I would want to say. You get, you get like hyper religious, like you know, that kind of thing. Oh could you imagine Angela Bassett as the?
Micah:mother? Yes, I could. Who's the dad? Denzel?
TJ:I was going to say Lauren Swissburn.
Micah:Oh, she's in a pod. That's too scary.
TJ:I would say somebody a little bit more, someone younger and someone more athletic, cause I feel like I was going to say what's his face from the Jackson Fyne movie that played the dad.
Brooklyn:No, why do you keep looking at these old people?
Micah:Daniel Caloo no, he's not. He doesn't have the chops.
Brooklyn:Because I feel like, unfortunately, but I feel like if Angela Bassett was the mother, you would want to find somebody slightly more menacing to play off of her, Was that?
Micah:I'm not good with movies or names to find out that that black guy's name, who we all hate, from whatever movie that was, is it an older movie or newer?
Brooklyn:Older? Yes, it's an older movie, and we're not talking about Samuel Jackson and his value, are we? No, no, I definitely know his name.
Micah:Okay, I can see his face so clearly. It looks like a little fish. I'm gonna have to get Google involved. Okay, we'll come back to that. We'll come back to that. I'm sorry, everyone.
TJ:I'm curious to know if there were any expectations going into this movie from either of you.
Brooklyn:I mean, I guess you kind of don't count because you've seen it a million times, but Well it still felt newer to me because I haven't watched it in more than a couple of years, but no real expectations, because I kind of had an idea of the gist of the story. More, it was some of the layers that I didn't expect. Those are the things that kind of came out to me.
Micah:So expectations of the movie is what was asked. Yes, my expectation was that the people under the stairs were gonna be the killers and turns out they needed help. But other than that, expectations were also that it was going to be scarier. I feel, like in this house. That was kind of technically cool and the way I mean it must have been huge with all those inner trailways and hiding spots and sellers and basements and whatever. There were so many opportunities for a lot of jump scares.
TJ:Yeah, there were not a lot of jump scares in this movie and, again, because it was a West Craven film, I expected it to be scarier or at least darker, because I don't feel like it was dark at all.
Brooklyn:So maybe not on this podcast, because he doesn't make black movies, but I think we need to watch a little bit more West Craven so that you can understand more what his style is like.
TJ:Like outside of Freddie?
Brooklyn:Yeah, because I feel like I've done you a disservice by showing you nothing but Nightmare on Home Street, because I'm like that is really what I have for reference.
TJ:It's like all of those movies were very distinct in tone.
Brooklyn:Yeah he's definitely more of a thriller director than a true horror, because think about something like well, that's not fair, because there's a lot of jump scares in screen.
TJ:I was gonna say, if I were to categorize this, if anything, this read more Stephen King to me than it did West Craven.
Micah:I could see that.
TJ:Like they're in the vein of like a carry yeah, like it wasn't, like it was situational horror or not, like scary horror.
Brooklyn:We're definitely gonna have a deep dive into some horror movies after this.
Micah:Yes, Well, I would say that you know nothing, Jon.
Micah:Snow. Oh, okay For someone who is thrilled to be part of this podcast, to have an opportunity to watch these older movies, especially with people who have or have not seen them. I would say that I was pleasantly intrigued by the movie and I was captivated by what was going on, so it was a good movie in that sense, but I wouldn't call it a good scary movie. I would say that what was scary about it was like being a black person trapped in these like crazy white people's homes who are trying to kill you.
Micah:That's unfortunately real. And when I watch a scary movie, I take solace in the fact that it's like oh yeah, that's not gonna happen, but like that could very much happen. Yeah.
Brooklyn:So apparently this film is based on a news story from 1978 where two African-American burglars went into this house of this very affluent, rich white family and, while doing this, found two children chained up and locked away and reported to the police and they found it. So that is where Wes Craven got the idea for this story from Interesting, okay, I see so rocking down that road is like, yes, this can't happen, because Merica, oh no.
Brooklyn:So after we get through the initial beginnings of the film, we're burglarizing the house. We're in the house, we're stuck in the house. We realized very quickly that this house is actually a trap and there is no way out.
Brooklyn:So the dog is Prince. It is something that kinda talk to me, to my core a little bit, because it's one of those tools that the oppressors have been using for decades against black and brown bodies. And Don't get me wrong love dogs I do. They're cute, but it makes me wonder. The whole idea of them becoming the man's best friend is based around their ability to control. Yeah, Absolutely.
TJ:I was gonna say there's a moment in the first, like 10 or 15 minutes of the movie where we are introduced to Prince and the young boy and I'm gonna call him Holiday Heart because I can't remember his name and that's what I remember him from Wow Point next to a fool. No, his real name, no, the black guy that's with him.
Micah:Holy.
TJ:Roy, yeah, so fool and LeRoy are in the house being chased by Prince, and I noticed something that, like the second time around, when they're in the living room where Prince is just staring at fool, and not attacking but the moment LeRoy pops up that's when he attacks, which. I feel like you were going somewhere, but I just wanted to.
Brooklyn:Pick it back on my points, it's fine.
TJ:I mean, well, I mean, you have a point. You have a point that, like this dog, that is I mean by all accounts seemingly harmless to fool, is being used as a tool to, unfortunately, target black men.
Micah:I didn't want to go there, but Well I mean they went there, not us, and then later on, you know, given the command to literally kill, he wasn't then attacking fool.
Brooklyn:And it was interesting to something I noticed tonight that I hadn't seen before the dolls that Alice made the majority of them were all people of color Like. None of them were like white dolls.
TJ:They were all different colors.
Brooklyn:There were a few, but like the majority of them were, which is interesting because all of the people under the stairs were void of color.
TJ:Well, they were under the stairs. Well, I know, I was just trying to make a point that they were white, without saying.
Brooklyn:She explains that in a movie that they were looking for the perfect boy and girl. But you know, boys grow up and become naughty so they get put under the stairs. So I think that they were probably all white boys that were stolen.
TJ:Yeah, and any of the black people that came into the house died.
Micah:Yeah, oh, also, I mean I don't know if we have a trajectory here, because I wrote a lot of notes, but I have been. But something about, like you know, when you brought up the word naughty, something that really wrote me the wrong way after we get into like a good chunk of the movie, is they're trying, so Alice, the daughter who they're, I guess, trying to find the perfect brother. For when they were under the suspicion that fool found Alice and you know they were together, the dad saying, like you know they definitely did it. I'm like fool is no older than nine. Alice could be nine. So it's the fact that they think that now that she's with this boy who happens to be black, that they think that he is corrupting her sexually, and that was the only time that the mother stood up for her and was like no, you know that boy.
Micah:he's got that definitely doing it. And I'm like why do you think that fool who is literally coming back to save her is like trying to corrupt her, like you guys have done? All the corrupting possible?
TJ:Yeah, this is perception that all one. All boys are terrible, but then also this black boy is the devil.
Brooklyn:And we're always perceived to be significantly older than we actually are, because, even though fool is definitely younger than her, you can tell by them he is perceived as being a much older person.
Micah:Right, like how is he mature, but she isn't. I guess that's what growing up in the ghetto will do for you.
TJ:I would love to talk about this very weird relationship between what they are referenced to in the movie as mom and dad, when in reality they are actually the opposite of that. And we find out much later in the movie from the grandfather that they are actually sister and brother, but they have this weird kind of sexual relationship we never explicitly see them like being affectionate toward each other.
Brooklyn:in that way it's kind of more just understood. So I wonder if that relationship is that, or is it something that they keep up just for appearances?
TJ:Appearances. See, I feel like. I feel like there is some sort of sexual undertone there, mainly because in things like a little over halfway in the movie, when they're in the attic and he's dressed in that absurd black thing and she says to come put me to bed now, and like I feel like there was a little hint of something sexual there.
Micah:You know, honestly, I wasn't getting that. I was more getting like they are depraved and that they it didn't feel like sexual gratification to me. It felt more just like derangedness and routine.
Brooklyn:I got something completely different when they were in the attic, and we're referring to when she's like, when Alice is like yeah, she's set up. So my thought was that it is possible that he has either been trying or has sexually assaulted Alice at some point and mother is trying to keep him from either doing it or doing it again.
Brooklyn:Because if you, if you watch that scene, he's talking to her and he, like, grabs on his crotch until she comes up the stairs and says come help me, and he's and he's visually frustrated and upset that she's there and has to leave.
Micah:Which is always so interesting, how those types of characters will always make it seem like someone else is the sexual deviant. When it's the calls coming from inside the house and furthermore, I was also I'm like they definitely have some kinks, but it doesn't feel sexual with each other, it feels more like torture torture, kink or control, like they wanted to control everything. This house was literally rigged from a control center to lock doors, closed doors, and I feel like that's what they were getting off on.
Brooklyn:Yeah.
TJ:So I'd be very curious to know the history of the house itself excluding them.
Brooklyn:Because the grandfather mentioned that it had been in there, like they said. He said that when we, when I was a kid, we didn't walk past the house, so the family has lived there for decades. At this point.
TJ:And did it originally? Did the family originally run it as a funeral home or?
Brooklyn:that's what it's referred to as that it was always. It was a funeral home to begin with.
Micah:That's how they got their money and there was remnants of that when the first burglaring burglaring burglaring burglaring, burglaring, when Spencer first goes in there and gets himself in the situation and then Leroy and Fulgo inside and they like crow barring open doors and then we see broken funeral home signs and like a room that seems like no one has been in for a long time. They were like, oh, okay, is this part of the old life? Cause, like the funeral home is long gone.
Brooklyn:Spencer's death. Spencer's death seems a little absurd to me.
Micah:It does.
Brooklyn:It was supposed to be scared to death and it just doesn't track. It doesn't track because he's a he's a he's a career criminal.
TJ:Yeah.
Brooklyn:Seeing some, seeing the people under the stairs would that terrify you to the point.
TJ:that's why I said this felt like a goosebump, your hair would go white in you.
Micah:Oh, I'm glad you brought that up because separate from that point, that was still at a part in the movie where I thought the people under the stairs were the killers. So when I saw Spencer down there, when fool was foolishly looking for him like disregarding all of the black rules, had an opportunity to escape, did not. So when he finds Spencer down there and he's like really petrifiedly dead on the floor and then the people under the stairs kind of drag him under a little bit and then seemingly eat at him, then the rest of the movie they're pretty docile.
Micah:I mean they're like making noise, they're being unruly, but they're not killing anyone. And they didn't establish a relationship with fool beforehand to save him. They didn't even know who he was. So that doesn't really add up overall that they are the reasons that he died when well, they made it seem like they killed him.
Brooklyn:So do we think that the name the people under the stairs was maybe a misdirection to? Market this film as more of like a true horror, where you're thinking that something is creeping under the stairs.
Micah:Yeah, I mean I felt like they. I mean the movie was good, but with that title it was bad. Yeah, the people under the stairs honestly could be extremely scary.
Brooklyn:It could be titled something I was like so what would you call it, if not that Fools?
TJ:Well, there's a moment towards the end of the movie where, like piggyback enough of your point where I saw why they named it people under the stairs.
Micah:Right.
TJ:When they came from the stairs that, and they start coming out of the walls.
Brooklyn:Yeah.
TJ:I feel like that little two or three minutes section is where the movie started.
Brooklyn:That's literally the entire trailer, Is it? Oh wow.
TJ:Wow.
Micah:That I would. I would be so upset Same.
Brooklyn:Like this is not what I signed up for Like an hour and 41 minutes into the hour and 41 minute long movie.
TJ:Yeah, did they come out? We could cut out. What is the character's name? The boy, which one that's crawling through the walls? Roach Roach. Oh, that's it, he's an important character.
Brooklyn:Oh my God, I can't believe you would say that Roach I loved him Because he's the boy who got away, he's the defiant one who escaped to the walls instead of just living docilely under the stairs. Yeah, I feel like no, I feel like he's important, I feel like he he is fools Obi-Wan, his Yoda, he like kind of helps him get through the house and understand what's actually happening there. And when you take Roach away, fool is just in the house not knowing what to do. Yeah.
Micah:Roach is paramount to the movie's success, because if it were not for him, I mean never mind you just said that.
TJ:So then, with that being said, what would you cut out of it, because I felt like it was long for no reason.
Brooklyn:There was some establishing things in the beginning that took a little long. The I can't believe I'm going to say this because sometimes I'm like this film did not make me care about anybody because they rushed through the establishing of everybody so quickly. We didn't need to the boyfriend, uh, ben Reem's uh character, we didn't need to just be meeting him. It would have been easier if fool knew him already and they were doing this heist so we could just roll right into that. You're being evicted. Well, we already know that he is a. He's a burglar. We're going to go steal money from these people. Go, we're there. We don't need any cookie scene like where he goes up and tries to get into the house. We could have went straight into Spencer trying to do this because we were not fools to the world. We know how this is going to work. If a white man comes to your door and says I'm here to check a gas leak, you have a better chance of getting in than this little black kid.
TJ:Now, do you think that's knowing that this movie was done in the 90s? Do you feel that way because you're in present day? Currently or what like 90s version of you say the same thing, Absolutely.
Brooklyn:I feel like it probably would have been more real to me then than it is now, because I feel like now she would have let him in out of the fear of being perceived as racist or prejudice or that kind of thing, I'm not sure when. Yeah, I feel like she would have lived through everything that we've lived through. It was very much okay for her to be rude to a little black boy at that point.
Micah:Yeah, but about things that we would cut. So I wouldn't. It did have a slow start, but I could have excused that if, after Fool finally did escape and like behind the scenes I guess, concocted this whole plan to go back. I felt like that was. I questioned why he chose the plan he did. He could have been more effective. So it seems like he didn't really ring that many alarms, like he got the police involved but wasn't there when the police was there to show them the actual evidence. He let them do the investigation. They found nothing, of course. And then, after everyone leaves, is when he comes out of the cabinet and does his own detective work.
TJ:Now, cause I remember when we watched this and you saying that and I had a whole thought, I was like I'll save it for this. I feel like he knowing where we are the city is nondescript, but it's an urban city and where he comes from. Do you really think the police would have believed him had he gone with them?
Micah:Not necessarily, but I felt like that boy had so much conviction and he could have literally attempted to show evidence and if he hadn't found it he would have. I just feel like he went back into this house with these people he knew was crazy, with no reinforcements, he didn't get Garner any weapons from outside, nothing.
TJ:Okay, that's fair. See, it's interesting because my interpretation of that whole section of the movie was that he did that to get the door open long enough so that he could sneak back in.
Brooklyn:Meanwhile, the sister and the grandpa are getting the community together to then deal with them as a whole, instead of relying on the police to help, because that was a question I was gonna ask is do you think that he knew that that was going to happen, like was he a part of that plan, or was that a situation that arose because his sister realized that he went back and then she rallied the troops to go over there to try to save him, but walking into that house with no reinforcements? Did he know that eventually they would get there? Or do you think?
Micah:he's part of it. I'm truly unsure and when that came up I was like hmm, coincidence, because I feel as though my first mind is like he wouldn't mention that to her because she would be like you're not going. So it's fine that he didn't mention it to her because she was a worry ward and she wouldn't have let him go. But he didn't mention it to anyone. I mean, we don't see them talk to anyone in the neighborhood at all. So I don't know where all those people came from anyways, but he could have brought two of those with him in the beginning well, not the beginning, but from going back to the house he went alone with no.
Micah:Like he know, these people are fully armed. They have a guard dog, a killer guard dog, and they have like a house inside the house. So, and he's like nine less than so, what did he really think? And he knows that you can't escape. So I'm just really curious as to like how did he in his mind think like oh yeah, I'm gonna show them. And I don't remember if Rote had already. I mean, my heart was broken when Rote had passed away. He had died by then. He had died before he went back, so he didn't have anyone to help.
Brooklyn:Well, it didn't go as planned, but he had a plan. He stayed in the cabinet until he thought they had gone upstairs to go to bed. I want to say that was potentially to sneak past them and sneak out or to incapacitate them while they were asleep.
Micah:so that they could get out, but funnily enough, I mean, they were smart enough to know that he would try that they set him up.
Brooklyn:Yeah.
Micah:Which I was and I felt it and that right there I felt like was the perfect moment for a real jump scare, and they did kind of a medium one. He did step out of nowhere. He stepped out of nowhere. I mean it was a perfect setup for like.
Brooklyn:I got you.
Micah:And it was just kind of like luster.
Brooklyn:Can we take a moment to just acknowledge how incompetent the police were in?
TJ:this universe. I mean, are they really in?
Micah:it.
TJ:Are they ever?
Micah:competent. Are we talking about now in life?
Brooklyn:We talk about, like I'm talking about, when he sneaks back into the house. So you're telling me in the split second that mother walked away from the back door and couldn't watch it. He was able to sneak by all the police, climb up onto the counter, get into the cabinet, close the cabinet doors and not a single police officer saw him while searching the house.
TJ:Now I will say, maybe is the thought just knowing how the movie ends and where he is. Did he go through the back door or did he go through the chimney?
Micah:How would he have gotten in from the chimney? How?
Brooklyn:would he have gotten up to the chimney and then?
Micah:Gotten down through the house and into the cabinet.
Brooklyn:No, that's an actual question, Tijet. You can't just shrug it off.
TJ:I don't know. The people want to know. Like I'm just throwing out questions, no, he didn't do that.
Micah:He's not going through the back door.
Brooklyn:He jumped into the cabinet and he waited until everyone was gone.
Micah:But the police were honestly a fail the entire movie, because when two guys come in the beginning I mean they're not a fail, they're just white and so are the family. So they're like oh, yes, we believe whatever you say they didn't even go inside the check. The mom, air quotes, says oh, there's nothing here. We checked Even out of the bed. It's all clean and they're like all right well you guys are lucky then have a good day.
TJ:Have a good day, Leafs. Yeah, the cops in this are very dense.
Brooklyn:And didn't even do the due diligence to say that the liquor store that tied the van to the liquor store robbery, that ties to the van that's in the parking lot is owned by the people who own that house.
Micah:Right, yeah.
Brooklyn:Incompetence.
Micah:Yeah, I mean, furthermore, in the incompetence. That's the fucking oops that is the van tied to a robbery and you don't do anything about it? You don't dust for prints. You don't get any evidence from the van you, literally-.
Brooklyn:No, no one's here. No one's here.
Micah:Alrighty then. Okay, thank you so much for your time. I mean, this is the van that you said was in. The robbery was last night, so I bet you the police chief when they got back and he was like so you left the van there.
Brooklyn:He left the van Right and I'm talking about this could be a fraud case.
TJ:So you're saying your liquor store was robbed and the van that just so happened to be there, the van that happened to be tied to the robbery is in your driveway.
Micah:And you said oh yeah, we just came up and it was here.
TJ:Well, isn't that the story?
Micah:And you, didn't look inside the house, is that?
Brooklyn:privilege.
Micah:Yes, is that?
Brooklyn:privilege. So we get into act two and Fool is back in the house, has now been captured, and this is where really the rise and action of the film is really taking place. So Fool is captured and then taken down to the basement. Now has he taken down to the basement to be killed? Are we gonna try this? People under the stairs, then killing him again, like what was going to happen to Fool downstairs?
Micah:Well, a was just a missed opportunity from them to just honestly be done with it, but then there would be no movie. I think he was. I mean, the people under the stairs literally couldn't kill him because they were still locked up behind the, whatever the barrier. So I think it was just. I think they have a kink for torture. They wanted to keep him down there until he just gave up, I guess. But there was no real plan, which is why the plan failed.
TJ:I feel like I agree and with you saying that now it kind of does give me a different perspective, because at every opportunity he had a double bear shotgun five times throughout the movie and somehow missed.
Micah:Or didn't shoot altogether Right.
TJ:And all these opportunities to like get rid of this kid, but somehow you got Leroy in two shots at the beginning of the movie. You killed him dead on sight.
Brooklyn:You had a whole scope thing right to the center mass.
TJ:Like, but somehow you can't seem to get this kid.
Micah:Yeah, and for me. I mean I know movies do this all the time, but it kills me when they have the gun pointed directly at you and then proceed with a monologue and then it's like the movie directors are like, and then we'll do the monologue here so that they can escape and the movie will be prolonged. It's like for all the black people out there listening to this and who watched the movie just know, if you're ever in danger, you shoot first and you ask questions later.
Brooklyn:Yeah, at least shoot the leg so that they can't chase you while you're saying your monologue.
Micah:Yes, Knee cap. And I would say, shoot their dominant hand as well, because they might have a weapon on them. Yeah, speaking of weapons, that is it.
TJ:I'm like there were a few moments where Ful had an opportunity to like use a weapon to his advantage and he did the exact same thing. He froze or like ran.
Micah:He's a fool. Yeah, I feel like he didn't necessarily freeze. He tried to be dramatic about it and then it didn't lead anywhere.
TJ:Yeah, Because I'm like the moment when he's in the bedroom with Alice and decides, in his rush of thinking, decides to grab the lamp and hit him over the head. I'm like now you have shards of glass, why not use that to get rid of him? But you decide to run into the wall instead.
Brooklyn:Right, that doesn't make sense to me Because I need a murderer. True.
TJ:But I'm like it's self-defense at this point.
Brooklyn:Yeah, logic, that's trauma we don't need.
TJ:Well, okay, well, I feel like that's another package, Funnily enough.
Micah:I mean, I was proud of Ful in some scenarios where I'm like, okay, he did hit the. What are we calling him? He's not a dad, he's daddy.
Brooklyn:Okay, that is his character name. That is his character name.
Micah:Okay, well, ful hits daddy a number of times. And I'm like okay, so I had hope you know that he would do what needed to be done, earlier, I suppose. So he hits him a few times, makes him bleed, and then I feel like that's when daddy is like all right, no more messing around with you, boy. Ha ha ha.
Brooklyn:Speaking, jumping on the boy thing. There were a lot of like little sprinkles of uncomfortable racism in this movie. The dropping of the N word, like right at the beginning, was one thing, but what is this? Leroy Leroy, after being killed, being hung up by his feet and then carved like butchered and then fed to the people under the stairs. It just didn't sit right with me. And then the throwing of his corpse into the void yeah it just that imagery didn't sit right with me.
TJ:Here's the thing I feel like I would have been okay with that if that was the tone for the entire movie. But, because we didn't set that up. It felt out of place to me, like that was one of those like gory moments that felt unnecessary with the current tone, whereas like in something like a chainsaw massacre or like Jeepers, creepers, where like the tone is already set for that type of horror, like that we didn't set it up at all, like it was very much like a comedy with the hint of horror.
Micah:And more so. I mean other than like Roach. No one else was really killed Like every. No, it's not a high body count. No, it's not a high body count Roach, steve Roach.
Brooklyn:Leroy, sorry, Spencer, Leroy Roach.
Micah:And that's really it.
TJ:Not me and daddy yeah.
Micah:Yeah, and like Roach, was only killed because he helped.
Brooklyn:Yeah, you know, I feel like the things in this movie were definitely like intentional. There was a moment that, again, as a child, paid no attention to paid complete dust. But when he is chasing full after he jumps out of the window and he shoots his gun outside and her saying never shoot your gun outside. Maybe I'm going too deep into this, but it just made me think like that is the insidiousness of racism especially in the house racism Kids can say we'll talk racism.
Brooklyn:Is that you can be as violent, as horrible as you want to be in this house, but don't do it outside, because the neighbors might hear Right.
TJ:So I feel like we've bashed this movie a lot.
Micah:Yeah, what are the good things? What do you like?
TJ:I was gonna say do you have any favorite scenes in this movie?
Micah:I really liked when Alice finally got her bearings and started attacking people when she comes flying down, well, okay, because, as we had discussed earlier, there were a few opportunities for her to escape and her literal ignorance didn't allow her. He was like come on, let's go out of the window. And he was like I'm scared, what's out there? And we're like black people. So she lived. I'm like what's out there, babe, what's in there, you know what's?
Brooklyn:in there.
Micah:You're literally. Your mom literally bathed you in scalding hot water.
Brooklyn:Yeah, so it can't be that much worse out there, right?
Micah:truly so. I was a little like, okay, I mean disappointed, sure, but understanding, the girls have been traumatized her whole life. But finally, like towards the third third of the movie Alice, I feel like just clicked it together and I was like you know what? Oh, I know why. Oh, we just had a moment. It's because she finally found out that they weren't her real mom and dad.
Brooklyn:So she no longer felt any ties to them. Yeah, that'll do it. So he stole me. Yeah, you stole me, and you did all this to me Just like that.
TJ:I think my favorite moment from the movie. It's so simple, but I was like, finally now you're actually thinking it's when they're up in the attic and he comes through the chimney and she's tied up and she says, oh, I'm, hold it by this bolt, and he knocks it out and the guy and daddy comes in and she immediately goes back up because, she's like, if he comes over here, I need to at least pretend that I'm still tied up.
Brooklyn:I'm like finally now you're actually thinking.
TJ:Yeah.
Micah:Yeah, because.
TJ:I've always said if I'm in that situation, I'm playing dead. Mm-hmm yep, like if you see blood, I'm like, yes, I'm dead.
Micah:That's my blood. Thank you, mm-hmm. Separate, this wasn't what was asked, but I just got to say that mommy, the actress I loved I mean she was crazy, but I'm like I loved every scene that she was in. I believed her to a T. She did seem kind of like the mastermind behind it all. Daddy seemed a little like dense and was just like the force of it all, but she had the plans and every time the police comes over she's like oh yes, officer. Oh, thank you so much. Nothing to see here.
TJ:Just lying through a T.
Micah:As white women do.
TJ:Just kidding.
Micah:We can't say that.
Brooklyn:Wendy Robbie is the name of that actress. Mm-hmm she is. She has not been a lot of things that I recognized. Looks like she's still working. Last thing she was in was in 2022.
Micah:Okay, okay.
TJ:That's another thing. This felt like a TV movie. It didn't feel like a feature to me.
Brooklyn:Well, you'll be surprised to know that this movie was an unexpected hit. Really, that did really really well. Why? Because it was a week at the box office. I would have to say that maybe West Craven's name carried some weight. I would imagine that that's what it was when it opened in 1991. Opened at number one in its first week, it made $5.5 million in its first weekend and stayed there in the top 10 until early December of that year.
TJ:Hmm, interesting, would not have guessed that at all.
Micah:You know what was another part that I really liked in the movie? This was after Prince sorry Fool, started using all of his brain. Now that Prince has been sicked inside the walls of the house to get them, I guess, while Mommy and Daddy are listening for where they are, he uses Prince as a decoy to get the dad to kill him instead, and even made it sound like he had been stabbed through the wall. I was like yes.
Brooklyn:But still, mommy comes in and she'd prove it. Yeah, oh yeah, he'd be like yeah, I got him.
Micah:She's like you said that the last time, you said that, three times already actually, and somehow he escaped came back and this is me, bro.
Brooklyn:It's still in my wall, okay, jeez.
Micah:Also, I feel like Alice could have been saved but lack of curiosity killed the cat, or could have killed the cat To my point earlier of him about to save her and her being like what's out there.
Brooklyn:But I think that's a fair fear especially if she was kidnapped as a baby or like a child in never leaving the house. So she's pretty much she's an agoraphobic. She's afraid to go out there.
Micah:But is she more afraid to go out there than to stay in there?
Brooklyn:Sometimes the devil, you know.
TJ:It's better than the devil, you don't? Because I imagine too with her, because we don't really get a backstory on her, so I'm like I don't know if she's been born in that house, right? Has she ever been outside? Was she taken at a younger age? And like this is all she knows now because she has no memory of anything before.
Brooklyn:Well, they mentioned. She mentions that she's never been outside. And then they mentioned that the grandfather mentions that they've been stealing children for years. So I would assume, just based on her personality when we meet her, that she's never been outside before.
Micah:Oh, she, it's. No, she alludes to that when she first sees Fulm. He's like you never seen a brother before and she's like I've never had a brother. Do you know what neighborhood you in? She's like neighborhood.
TJ:Yeah.
Micah:I guess I would say definitely parts of, I mean my favorite moot. How late is it? Favorite parts of the movie was when Ful would just say these like random, like zingers and they were like so black, it's like boo, go ahead, oh, just something like that. And then he found it was very 90s.
Brooklyn:It was very Bart Simpson, very 90s, he worked himself up to finally curse at the end.
TJ:Yeah, yeah. Are there any cinematic moments that you liked in this?
Brooklyn:There's definitely one that I have a question about. I won't say liked, but it's the end of the movie with the explosion of the vault. The dynamite was strong enough to kill daddy. I say that in quotations because we just assumed that that is the case, but not strong enough to burn the money.
TJ:Like the coins.
Brooklyn:Sure, I get that they're gold, but none of the money was singed.
Micah:None and furthermore I think okay. So mommy has just been killed. She was stabbed by Alice first, and the people from under the stairs come from out of there they're the people out of the cabinets now and then we assume they also slit her throat. She's thrown into the cellar with a slit throat.
TJ:I think they like ripped her throat.
Brooklyn:Bitch ripped.
Micah:And then now we're at the scene where Ful does this beautiful decoy to get daddy into the vault where the money is and threatens him. It's like I ain't trying to kill nobody and then proceeds to kill somebody. So to your point, the dynamite strong enough, blows up vault, blows up house, kills no one.
TJ:Kills no one Except for daddy.
Brooklyn:But then again. But then again, looking at that explosion it definitely caused an explosion, but it was mainly it wasn't enough of a fire that people felt like they needed to run away from the house. It wasn't enough to burn the money. So was the dynamite just expired? Not powerful enough Because, like we, we assume that daddy died. All these things happened. But if fool made it out of unscathed unscathed out of there it's a possibility that he may have just been knocked out and like blasted away, but still is very much in prison right now.
Micah:Yeah, yeah, and honestly I'm not really sure if the dynamite was used, because it could have been electrical, because he had two circuits for lack of a better term, and he put those together and then the explosion happened. So the D-Core could have just been a like well, I think that yeah, to make him think like if you shoot me right now, I'm gonna do this and you're gonna explode from the dynamite. But when he does it, it doesn't really seem like fire.
TJ:Yeah, because it feels like any of these subsequent explosions were just caused by something else exploding, yeah, which I think is probably the dynamite that he lays out after fool comes back the second time or three times. Yeah, do you have any in a favorite cinematic moment?
Micah:Oh, not really, but I guess, if I had to answer, the best cinematic moment was after said explosion, when we see all the community out there and the money is like falling from the sky. I don't really love the idea of black people like grabbing at the money on the ground, but we get it. And the lost boys sorry not Peter. Pan. The people under the stairs are literally just walking away. No one even notices them. No one's like oh no, do you need help?
Brooklyn:There's money falling from the sky, right. The main thing, black people care about something that has never made sense to me. Has always grinded my gears Every time I see this movie is how fast we're expected to believe that this candle is burning, because the rate in which the coins are dropping means that they have to be literally one after the other, after the other, but the image we get of this candle opera is that they are like one inch apart. Yeah, so they'd be one dropping every 15 minutes.
TJ:That candle is not burning that fast ever.
Brooklyn:I just had to speak my peace on that, thank you.
Micah:And the first piece to that is when he first knocks all the coins down. So when he gets in the vote, one of the people under the stairs is like, and then he takes the top off and makes so much noise and then quickly jams all of those into the. Where did he?
Brooklyn:How did he light the?
Micah:game on the first day.
Brooklyn:How did he, like the, we're expected to take so many?
TJ:weeks here we. When do he have time to put that many coins into the camera? Where did he get the candle opera from?
Micah:We had to leap so many times in this movie that my legs are sore. It was. It was an entertaining movie to watch for this, but I won't be going back, yeah.
Brooklyn:Okay, now we've come to the portion of the show we talk about our scores of this film. I have nostalgia kind of tied to this movie, so I'm still gonna give it eight creepy dolls out of 10.
Micah:Okay, that's fair. Okay, michael, Continuity is such a big thing for me and someone who studied theater and dance in college and when I did playwriting I know this is getting long what did? But when I did playwriting in college, that ruined my life because I knew that everything on screen was a decision that was made. So all I can do is question the decisions that were made and in that case I would give this movie probably like a 4.5 creepy dolls out of 10, because fools character was at least enjoyable.
TJ:Okay, mainly because it's not what I signed up for and also now knowing that the trailer was two minutes of the best part of the movie. For me, this gets three creepy dolls.
Brooklyn:That is disrespectful on a couple different levels. I'm not. I'm not gonna argue with you, but I'm just saying what are the levels? That is disrespectful on a bunch of different levels. Which levels? West Craven is no longer with us. He deserves more of your respect than that. This is a black lead film deserves more of your respect.
TJ:Three three creepy dogs, three Keep talking is gonna be two.
Brooklyn:Well, now none of that matters, because now we're going to talk about whether or not it goes on the list or not. So your score is literally mean nothing.
Micah:This is majority rules. Welcome to whose movie is the point to make up?
Brooklyn:So I will ask the question Does this movie make it on to the must watch black ass movie list?
Micah:Request to know what other movies are there.
Brooklyn:You'll have to listen to the podcast to find out which movies are on the list.
TJ:Every Wednesday.
Micah:For me that's tough Because I mean, in everything that was terrible it was, it was good to see just unpack and just like quite literally, quite literally have a conversation like this about it. So it's a must watch if you want to talk about it with your other intellectual friends and pick it apart. But other than that probably not.
Brooklyn:So we need a clear and decisive answer.
Micah:Next question.
Brooklyn:please Does it make it on to the list, yes or no?
Micah:Mike, yes, it's a black director. Watch it West. Craven is white. Cut that out. No, it does not make it on the list.
Brooklyn:TJ.
TJ:My God today. Here's the thing Again. It wasn't what I signed up for I thought it was going to be something completely different, so for me, no it does not make it on the list. I think, I think it's a waste of two hours. You literally watch like a YouTube summary or listen to us.
Micah:Just listen to this podcast. You'll have seen the movie and you'll know the whole movie.
TJ:I'm sorry, I know you love this, but for me, but like for me for me, I would not add it to the list. I feel like there are better black horror movies out there that still fit into this genre and that fit into this timeframe that are way better and, like, well executed. It was a miss for me, I'm sorry.
Brooklyn:That is A Okay. That is your opinion, and your opinion is valid here. You're respected here. This is safe space for you.
Micah:Okay, safe space out of 10.
Brooklyn:So I disagree with both of you. I think that it should definitely go on the list and I know that I'm overruled and that's fine, but I feel like, just for the sake of it, I need to say it that I think this is a good horror movie and I think that it needs to go on the list because of some of the topics that it does talk about, and I think that it's a good way to talk about these issues with someone younger to help them understand what's happening, why these situations arose and what is currently happening today. So for that reason, I would put it on the list, because I feel like it's an important I won't go so far as to say important, but I would say it's a nice jumping off point for a conversation to follow.
Micah:Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, that's all folks.
TJ:Yeah, and that's our show. Thanks for listening to the Blackass Movie Podcast. You can find us on Instagram at the Black Movie Podcast. We'll see you next week.