The Beer Leaguer
The podcast for the discerning beer league hockey player. We cover all things adult recreational hockey from folks that never played professionally, but just want to have fun and get a little better every game.
The Beer Leaguer
Behind the Whistle: A Beer League Referee Tells All
In this episode of the Beer Leaguer Podcast, we are joined by Ron Wilson, a beer league referee with a rich history in hockey. Ron discusses his journey from player to coach to admin to referee, the social dynamics of officiating, and the challenges faced on the ice. We then talk about the unique perspective of officiating, and the camaraderie found in beer league hockey. Finally, Ron shares insights on the role of respect in sports and the fun side of being a referee.
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All right, everybody, you've argued with them. You've probably been scolded by them. And you probably blame them for that goal that you missed on the wide open net last game. Today, we're getting inside the mind of a beer league referee. On this episode of The Beer Leaguer Podcast, we're joined by Mr. Ron Wilson, one of the referees that gets the pleasure of watching my games here in Cleveland.
RON_WILSON:Watching, I like that. Yeah, I just watch.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Well, I say that because there's, you don't really have to referee me. I am like the nicest, sweetest person out there. You get to just enjoy watching me skate around. I'm sure it's a joy to watch that.
RON_WILSON:Well, it's not just you, it's your team. You're representing your team. So when you say watch me, you're representing your team in that environment. So yes, I'm watching your team and you are a part of that.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yeah, there you go. That's a much nicer way of putting that. Much nicer way of putting that. All right, so I think start things off. How did you get into reffing?
RON_WILSON:Wow. Well, loaded story. So I've been officiating hockey for five or six seasons. I got into it because I've been in hockey forever. And I was on the other side. I was a coach, I was an administrator, I ran a program and was a part of a youth program here in Cleveland for 30 years. So I started when I was young and I was working with a woman, and we had for 30 years ran one of the largest beginner programs. So starting out youth, five, three, four, five, six, seven-year-olds in Cleveland. And so I did that for 30 years, instructional-based, skating, things of that nature. And then as my kids came through, I was able to coach them pretty much throughout their careers up through and including high school. And in like after the COVID year, the woman I worked with, she was a full-time city worker at the rec complex in Rocky River, and she retired. And I said, hey, because you're retiring, we're done. And so at that time, we kind of gave everything up. And at that time I had become the president and the hockey director of the youth program and done so for eight to ten years, let's say. And so by that time, I had had enough, but I still had something to give. And I've always had interest in officiating. And so I said, hey, I'm going to go ahead and take the leap. And as they say, as all the ref say, you jump to the dark side.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I could see that. Now, have most of the refs that you're roughing with, have most of them played?
RON_WILSON:You know, that's another great question. I would say, for the most part, yes. Most officials have played youth hockey or up through high school hockey at some level and then decided that they wanted to officiate, or they've officiated since they were in high school or as youth, as well as playing at the same time. And there are a lot of referees that still do play and officiate at the same time.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yeah, that's a big thing that I notice with our league that, you know, that I play in and you ref in, is a lot of those guys, it kind of seems to be splitting into two groups, of guys that are still playing or just finished playing, or now we're getting this group of kids that are, I guess, like, just kind of done with high school or maybe done with college and, you know, kind of like, eh, don't feel like playing, but it's, you know, a way to stay in hockey without really having to have the commitment of playing.
RON_WILSON:You know, that's another great point too, is being able to be on the ice and be a participant in hockey but not playing. So I am not one of the hockey playing officials. I haven't picked up a stick for over a year, year and a half, maybe two years, because I do see a lot of ice and I enjoy officiating. And, you know, I had a long career. I mean, I think I played in the league for 25 years on various teams and saw the churn and the cycles of, you know, we had a team and then we got older and we split off and then the younger guys went and the older guys went. And then, you know, that team tried to recruit younger guys and we just kept getting older. And so there became a point where, for me, it just wasn't fun anymore playing. I mean, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed all aspects of it. Hanging out in the locker room and, you know, those relationships, things of that nature. And I still miss it to this day, but with the amount of officiating that I do, not just for Men's League, but for youth, high school, I've done some college club games, things of that nature, that it just, it becomes a point where I just don't want to see another rank.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I can see that. I mean, I can see how I get tired of some, but I also see how you do miss it. That's a big thing we talk about here with all different people is the office stuff, but that's what people miss a lot. Because especially as you kind of get older, I always say it's hard to make friends when you're an adult, because the only people you see are the people you work with in your family. And so many people work remotely, so you don't even see those people, probably don't even work in the same state as a lot of them. So you don't see anybody but your family. So how are you going to make friends and meet people? It's stuff like hockey. And I'll say one of the big...
RON_WILSON:I have great stories behind that too, because I agree with you. And just because we're not in the room with you guys, and there's only two officials, we on the official side are still creating camaraderie with our peers, having conversations, getting together. I know at the end of the season, we precipitated a little get together for just some officials, just to kind of close the winter season out. So there is... And for me, I've known many of the officials for a very long period of time. Before I became an official, I said I was a coach. And so I got to know a lot of those guys that way. And then when I became an official, it just kind of increased that. The second piece to that, and here's a great example too of like what you just said. If you're going to a strange town and you've played hockey, you want to hook up with a team and meet some people, things of that nature, that's great. But sometimes you don't always know, hey, what's the right group to get involved with? And so my son, my oldest son, I convinced him to get into officiating. And he lives up in Kalamazoo, Michigan. And at first he's like, well, I want to get into a beer league because I want to meet some people. I don't really know anybody here except for people I work with. And I said, you know what, you'd be surprised how many people you can meet officiating. And so he started officiating up there and he's starting to meet a few people here, a few people there. And now he's fully ingrained in the officiating cycle. He's done very well for himself. He's caught the eye of a few officials that have been around for a while. And he's been to some USA hockey camps, but mostly he's met the officials he works with, their significant others. It's created its own social group for him and his wife in a strange town to where now they do... Like I talked to him last week. Yeah, we're getting together with so-and-so and we're having a little get together and they're having parties. And so they've created their own social setting. In fact, this past summer, they formed their own beer league team, a bunch of referees playing hockey. Imagine that. Imagine how that goes. A bunch of referees yelling at other referees for not making the right calls.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I feel bad for whoever has to ref that game.
RON_WILSON:That's what I asked them. I go, okay, if all the refs are on your team, who's officiating the game?
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yeah, I never thought of it. That's got to be a really good backdoor way to sneak into learning about the hockey in the area. Because the refs are the ones that know that probably ref multiple leagues. So they know like, hey, this league is, that's the league that kind of, a lot of rough stuff and kind of goons it up. This is the one that's super chill and the guys hang out. This is, you know, the groups that are really good and kind of stuff like that. That'd be a good way to get in. And if you start reffing and learn, you know, talk to the refs and do different stuff like that and get in and learn about an area before you actually start playing in it. Let me take a quick moment to invite you to head over to thebeerleaguer.com, where you can check out previous podcast episodes, keep up with all the goofy and sometimes informative social media posts, and contact the show. There's an easy-to-use contact form, a button to leave voicemails, and a newsletter sign up. All of us here would love to hear your thoughts on this episode or ideas for future ones. Now back to the show.
RON_WILSON:Yeah, because believe it or not, the referees in the air, once you start officiating some of these teams, you get to know some of the people on the teams and their tendencies, and who the personalities are, and the characters are on each team. And so you got a pretty good insight as to, because you see all of the teams. There's a chance you go through a season and you're seeing every division, every team, you get to know guys. And so, yeah, it's a pretty good snapshot for what that looks like.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yeah. So, and that's one of the things I know with you is kind of everybody in the league knows you. You know, you do ref so much. Well, it's multiple reasons. It's you ref so much, you're personable. Not every ref is personable out there. Most of the, generally they are, but not every single one is. And that makes a big difference. How much does, you know, the people chatting with you, like I'm obviously, you know, this I'm a big chatter to the refs before and after games and stuff. And, you know, I don't know, I feel like I'm not trying to like color calls. I'm just being friendly about stuff, because I like to know everybody and, you know, kind of be a part of things. How much does stuff like that, or even the other end of that, people that are kind of being jerks, how much does that, and how hard is it to not have that color, what you call and do during a game?
RON_WILSON:Yeah, it's tough at times. The advantage that I have over a lot of officials is, like I mentioned before, being around the game of hockey and having kids and just running a program. And so you recognize a lot of players that, I mean, there's kids that, in fact, over the summer, there's a family that plays, and the daughter and the son both started with me almost 30 years ago. And you get to know them, and it doesn't mean that you get any graces with them. It just means, I think that there's a little more personal interaction there. So because, again, there's a lot of people that don't know who I am, and they just know me as an official, and they may have an opinion one way or the other about how we make calls or how we manage the game. And the other expectation is we don't control the game. A referee doesn't control your actions out on the ice. We make calls based on what we see and how it's done. Now, you may have a temperature of a game where someone is a little high fluid personality, skill set, and people may not like that. And so, you do gauge the temperature of the game. But again, I think I always like to think at any level, be impersonal and communicate what you're doing and answering questions to somewhat a decent point helps, because, Mike, as you know, the league that we're most visible with, there's a lot of beginners. And my common question over the last couple of years is, what color is the rule book? Meaning, when have you picked up the rule book and read a rule book? Because there are several, depending on... You know, as an official, we have to know rules for four different leagues. And there's different sets of rules there. And the beer league that we officiate, that you play in, it's got a rule set that goes back to 2004. And so it hasn't been updated. And so there's a lot of different variations of... You know, because some guys don't read it. You know, so they don't know. So they're making calls based on what? Maybe USA hockey, or federated in high school, and all that stuff. And that's not the interpretation from HNA. So, number one, we have to be consistent. And we have to communicate that. But also, I feel it's my job to also help some of those beginners or lower skilled teams to understand the game a little bit more. They see it, they, you know, I can't tell you how many times somebody puts the puck over the glass, and they're like, oh, it's a penalty, right? And I'm like, we're not in the NHL. We're not, we don't have a rule for that in this league. And so you have to explain that. And, you know, like, I think last week I had a game, and, you know, a player, a player was behind another player, and he had a stick up, and is underneath it, and the guy chicken winged it, meaning he held his stick. So he got it up in his shoulder, and he held it. And the player whose stick it was let it go, and he's complaining to me about him holding his stick. And I said, well, technically, you're in violation of a hooking rule because you're behind him, you're not playing the puck, and the stick's vertical, you know, or horizontal up, you know, in his thing. So of course he's gonna hang on to it. So I went and explained that to him, and he's like, hey, I really appreciate you explaining that because I didn't realize that. And it's like, okay, so those are the things, because, you know, most of these newer players or beginner players, they don't read the rules. They think they know the rules, but they never read them.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yeah, and I think it's a couple of things with that. From my perspective of someone that came in as a brand new player is, one, our rule book isn't the same as the NHL, because that's what people tend to know, is NHL rules, maybe USA hockey rules, and it's not all the same. I mean, so you know the basics of like, I get what hooking is, I get, you know, offsides, but like you're saying, like, puck over the glass or things like that, like, it's different. And then also, you know, out of how you see stuff, people don't get the perspective of playing is different from how you see things from a third person. You know, either because I know, because I know from talking to you and other refs, like there's stuff that happens that you guys are like, I can't see that because it's like behind a pile of four other dudes. I can't see what's over there. It's on the other side of the net behind everybody, or you're watching the puck, you're not watching every, there's just two of you for our game. You can't see every little thing that goes on everywhere at all times. And it's also like, hey, if I'm skating and somebody is trying to knock the puck away from me and they hit me in the leg, I might be going, hey, they're trying to trip me. Whereas you see it from a couple of feet away and you're like, no, they were just going for the puck and it wasn't, you know, it didn't do anything. It's a very different perspective of that. The special beginners, I think, don't realize that.
RON_WILSON:Well, and there's a lot of interpretations for those type of rules, and we'll call them stick infractions. So anything with the stick, like tripping, hooking, slashing, things of that nature, in an adult beer league type setting, those things happen all the time. And if we, you know, if we made every ticky tack call, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't type situation. If you make the call, you're a jerk. If you don't make the call, you're a jerk. So there's always the perspective of each team is mad at you because you either did or did not make a call. But what we're trying to do is keep the flow of the game. So if there's something that's there, and, you know, somebody trips someone, and, you know, it didn't result in a turnover, an injury, a goal, something like that, there's chances that you might just let it go because it wasn't serious enough of an infraction. Is it an infraction? No doubt. By the rules, yes. By the interpretation or the situation, maybe it isn't. And, you know, just like, you know, we've talked about before, everybody's got to get up for work the next day. Yeah, you don't want things to happen, and you don't want things to escalate. So, yeah, maybe there's calls that are being made because you don't want things to escalate. So you might make that call, and other times you might not make that call. So, you know, but again, you're trying to take the whole experience into mind and make sure that everybody should have fun, everybody should compete, everybody should stay safe. And when it doesn't happen, it's our job to kind of, you know, police that and make sure that things are enforced.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:And I think it's along the same lines of that. One of the things that I noticed playing on multiple teams and then scorekeeping all the different levels is some referees do better job of this, I think, than others. I think you do an excellent job of kind of, I don't know the right way to put it, but refereeing to the level. Whereas you kind of know like, hey, we're playing beginner level guys. They probably can't control their stick as well. They don't know, they can't stop as good stuff like that. Whereas you might let something go at a beginner level. Whereas like our top level are people that probably played through high school, maybe played some level of, you know, something in college and, you know, they're fast, they know what they're doing. So like, oh no, that wasn't a, you just kind of were trying to do something. You wind up tripping the guy. You don't, you know, you have better control of what you're doing. You're going for a trip, you can tell. And kind of varying with that.
RON_WILSON:Yes, it's a great point. Skill level does have something to play in that. And so, you know, for me personally, it's taken a while to learn that. And so when I first started officiating, you know, I was doing lower level 10U, 12U type stuff, which most officials start at, you know, different levels of skill set. But the one thing that I wanted to do was do some beer league at the lower level, mid level type stuff because I wanted to learn. And I'm still, you know, I'm still learning. And you're always in different situations. The one thing they tell referees every year when you go through a seminar is you got to read the rule book. You got to master the rules. You know, when you look at the book, they're so, it's like golf. Golf has a set of rules, but then golf has a bunch of situations. Hockey is the same way. There are a bunch of situations that you read that you're like, oh my God, that would never happen in a game. But it's written in the book because it has happened in the game. So we're always learning and adapting and trying to do different things at different levels. So yeah, it's a challenge any way you look at it. We're gonna miss calls, or we're gonna do things differently, but the one thing I try to be is consistent and at least work as hard as I can, no matter what the game is. I don't care if it's a higher level game, a lower level game. I still want to give as much of my effort as I can because we're getting paid out there to do a job, and people want to know, hey, we're not slacking, we're not snuffing off, we're not taking a lower division game less serious than an upper division game.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:And I think that's greatly appreciated and it's noticed. It's noticed by players and everything. When some officials do do that for a lower level game, and they're like, eh, whatever, I'm here. As long as the fight doesn't start, I don't care.
RON_WILSON:Right.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I mean, there are refs that do that. I mean, I've seen that, you know. So that's, yeah, I think that's a big thing.
RON_WILSON:Now neither confirm nor deny that.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Well, I'll confirm.
RON_WILSON:I'm a grounds of name, incriminate me at a later date.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I can say this not just for like my teams, but as a neutral third party, because I do score keep a lot. So I get to see a lot of this that I'm like not involved in. It's like a division. I don't play in. I have no stakes in it, which is very different than even when I like score keep something that's in a division I'm in.
RON_WILSON:Yeah.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I'm like, oh, that guy's a jerk. I don't like when I play against him. Why didn't you call him for that? Where it's like, it's a level I don't play at. It's like, oh, yeah, that was fine. That was nothing or whatever. Now, as someone that does play, and like I said earlier, I do try and be friendly with all of the officials and have a good repartee with all of you guys. So I can't ask you questions because I do. I ask you questions like, hey, and I try to not be a jerk when I go, hey, why wasn't that called or something like that? And I'd say 99 times out of 100, I get a nice answer, not just from you, but from everybody of, you know, this is why I didn't call it because, you know, this, this, or this. It's like, okay, you know, good or bad, it's whatever it is versus getting yelled at or saying something, you know, like, hey, I didn't call it because I don't like you. I don't usually hear that. I have. What, from a ref perspective, do you wish players either, you know, were better about asking or didn't ask or, I mean, besides just being a jerk to refs and blaming refs for everything, what do you wish players understood more or did better job of interacting with you?
RON_WILSON:You know, I'll answer that by stating when I was the administrator of a youth program, the one thing that I touted to coaches was, you know, and I tried to stress, you know, be polite, kill them with kindness, all that stuff. I mean, that's just me on a personal level, but I feel like nobody wants to get yelled at, right? I mean, things happen and, you know, I've been in games where things have happened and I've yelled or raised voices or something at an official because maybe they're not hustling, maybe they're not in position or maybe they missed something. But again, it's a totally different perspective when you play, when you coach, when you spectate versus when you're out there as an official dodging pucks, dodging players, trying to see everything. So the one thing I've always said was, you know, try not to have a level of respect and try not to get on an official until you have that perspective. Like if you're a player and a coach, I always encourage, especially now, because I've done it for five, six years. We're trying to get more officials in the game. We're trying to bring new people in. I've let them know what my experience is. But a lot of coaches and players, you want to put them in that position because you want them to understand why I did what I did or why I didn't do what I did and why I answered things the way that it answered. There's a lot of officials who won't, they won't go to a bench and answer questions. They won't talk to players. They'll just say, this is my call, and you got to live with it because they've had previous experiences that weren't very good, quite frankly. And they're just done. They're like, you don't deserve any of that because I'm here, this is my job, I'm making this call, whether you like it or not, this is the way it stands. I don't know, I take a softer approach to that, but I do, it is different. And I've had people come up to me and tell me, like, hey, I started officiating, and I was a coach for 18 million years, and it is, it's different, it's different. And so, but yeah, just from a personal standpoint, I'd like to treat people how I want to be treated, but understanding that if temperatures get a little hot, okay, fine, you're competing, you're in a game, here's what you see, here's what I see, here's why I did what I did. And as long as you explain that, or even if you admit your mistakes, even in seminars for USA Hockey, they say, you know, it's okay to admit a mistake. Don't admit too many, though, because you don't want to be, oh, I didn't see that. And then five minutes later, oh, I didn't see that. Well, what are you doing? What are you doing out there? But you do miss certain things at times, and as long as you're handling it the right way, I think everybody's fine with it.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I will say, we did have, for one of my teams, at the end of last year in the playoffs, a penalty that the, well, it was not a penalty. The whole bench thought it was a penalty. We were pissed about it. And I remember asking the ref, like, during a stoppage, like, hey, why wasn't, what happened? Why wasn't that a call? This is what we saw. And their actual response was, I wasn't looking at that part of the play. I didn't see it. If it was, I'm sorry, I missed it. And it was just like such an honest thing. And I was like, I remember going back to the bench, and I said, like, they were watching, you know, it was like they were watching, it was an away from the puck play, and they were watching the puck. And I went back to the bench, and I was like, they were watching the puck, they didn't see that.
RON_WILSON:Yeah.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:You know, they're sorry. And it was just kind of, everyone was like, oh, like, you can't be, like, it was one of those, like, you're pissed that it didn't get called, but it was like, because they were pissed at the ref really bad. I was like, oh, well, oh, okay. Well, that sucks.
RON_WILSON:Well, and hopefully that's what you have a partner for is to see the things that you don't, especially if, like, in a situation like that, I remember, was that me that said that? Because I've said that a couple of times, because, like, when plays are, scrums are in front of the net, right? You're trying to watch the goal line in the goalie. Does the goalie cover the puck? Where's the puck? Is it crossing the line? And there's a bunch of stuff that can happen in front of the net that you don't see because you're trying to make sure the puck stays in or is saved or you're protecting the goalie. And so that did happen where somebody came up to me and said, hey, this guy just totally slashed me in front of the net. I'm like, look, dude, I didn't see it. I'm watching the goalie. I'm trying to watch the puck in the net. And that's when you go over to your partner and maybe ask, hey, did you see any of this? And I mean, nine times out of ten, your partner's watching in front of the net. So if they saw something, they would more than likely make that call. But yeah, we do. I mean, those things happen. And in that same situation, when the person said that and I said, hey, I explained what it was, he's like, okay, I'm fine with that. I'm fine with that.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yeah, I mean, it's such a simple, you know, I mean, it's such a simple reason and it's a complete de-escalator. You can't argue with it. Just like, well, that sucks. All right, move on. You know, it's...
RON_WILSON:You only call what you see.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Exactly. Exactly. So do you think it would be better if more players at least tried reffing, you know, at some level and gave it a shot? Do you think that would be good for them?
RON_WILSON:Now, before you go on that, I will tell you some of the most egregious people that I've played with or have seen that abuse officials are officials. I used to tell a couple guys that I used to play with, I'm like, you guys are the worst on officials and you're officials. Like, I don't understand that. Like, what do you have against these people that you're just so irate with them, but then you're an official. So I never understood that because I'm like, I don't want people yelling at me.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I will say, I think that's the only people I've seen yell about a particular rule is officials that are skating out and playing to other officials. Somebody knows the rule. Yeah. Like, hey, that's such and such rule, why didn't you call that? And it's like, really? That's what you're, okay. You know, for me, it's one of those things I've never understood. I get when you get pissed about something, you know, you yell about it real quick, but then it's like, okay, after you say, hey, why didn't you call it or whatever, after that, it's such diminishing returns. And it very quickly turns into the only thing that's gonna happen is somebody's gonna get pissed at you. And, you know, that's not good. Because I never want any refs to be pissed with me. Because I don't need you guys mad at me and making calls that are borderline against me. That doesn't happen.
RON_WILSON:That doesn't happen. Well, but again, in those situations, it's, you know, that person's a player. I'm the official. So if the roles were reversed and I'm the player, okay, you can say, explain why you did or did not make a call. I don't have any jurisdiction over that. I'm a player. I'm not an official at the time. So it's like, you got to take one hat off, put the other hat on. But, you know, some guys do, they want to, you know, impart their wisdom on, you know, maybe it's somebody that's more senior or something that's been around or done more things and says, you know, hey, you're not, you can't, you're not in a position to make that call. You've only been doing this for X amount of years. It's like, no, when we're out there, it's our game. We're the official, you're the player.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yeah, I could see that. I can totally see that. All right, so that's a good, that's a good thing to know, though, that you think more players should try reffing. Now, do you think that if you were going to say more players should try reffing, should they try reffing beer league games? Cause that's probably the easiest thing to get into is to reffing beer league games or reffing, I mean, it would obviously be like little kids and stuff like that.
RON_WILSON:So that's, I think it's a combination of both. I think, you can do beer league adult type games. The problem is, is that like when you just start off, and we know there's a handful of guys that did last year and over the summer and will continue that, that are only doing beer league stuff and have never done youth or high school. So the one perspective that I would say is, I mean, it's not a bad way to start, but the thing that you don't get is the training and the knowledge and the rules and the certifications that if you did beer league and then youth. So I would always recommend, start with youth. Yeah, it's a commitment. There's some money involved and you got to go through the seminars and all this other stuff. But again, you have to learn, I mean, just basic positioning. Where do you need to be on the, I mean, how to drop a puck. You know, that's the other important thing that, you know, when I learned, you know, somebody taught me, hey, here's how you drop the puck. Like, don't have your head down and don't do this because you have to look when you can, you know, imagine when you drop a puck. What's going on after you drop a puck? It's a freaking melee. And you're right in the middle of it. So what are you doing to get out of the way and note your surroundings so that you don't get killed? And again, I've talked to many people that I've known over the years and tried to recruit them into officiating because, like I said, for the most part, I've enjoyed it. I have fun with it. I will continue doing it as long as I'm physically able to, and I have fun doing it. And I urge them to give it a shot. And there are some guys, listen, there's some guys, I mean, I'll drop a name, Steve Lax. Steve Lax was in a seminar for USA Hockey to officiate youth games. And we, because we've talked to him about it. And, you know, it'll be fun to watch his progression. It'll be interesting, you know, to see how he does and how he reacts. But, you know, there's somebody that's, he's at least giving it a shot and he's learning and taking that on. And so it's, but here's the other disclaimer. It's not for everyone. There are a lot of people that, that I would not, I would discourage from doing it because I don't know that they could handle it. So it just, it just depends.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Okay, well, that's what I was thinking is it, it might behoove, I think the majority of people to at least go through this stuff, go through training and learn kind of the perspective. And maybe they don't, maybe they wind up doing almost no games. Maybe they ref like it's just a handful of kids games for one year and that's it. And then do some beer league games and stay there. Don't do any more and just go through the whole training of only ref, you know, 10 games or less. I would think that that would be enough, though, to give hopefully some perspective and some idea of kind of what you guys are going through and what you were saying, how it's it's different. You know, it's the same thing of, I think, especially for beginners, you know, watching hockey, you think you know what's going on, you step on the ice, start playing, totally different thing. You know, same thing of you're playing to moving over to reffing, you think you know what's going on, totally different thing.
RON_WILSON:Yeah, yeah, that's a great way to put it.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:So, okay, you've talked about, you know, kind of going from the, I didn't want to just say player, because I always knew you as a player before a ref, but going from, you know, player, administrator, all that, to the reffing perspective, what surprised you most, good or bad, getting into reffing?
RON_WILSON:What surprised me the most? I mean, I think, you know, I'm still surprised every day. There's always, you know, there's always new things that happen all the time. But, yeah, I don't know. I'd have to think back on when I started and some of the things that had happened. I mean, so my milestones have been, you know, starting in youth and then doing Beer League and then graduating after like two or three years to do high school. And then once I started doing high school, I started doing some college club stuff, which, I mean, again, I'm not a young chicken, you know. And so to do some of that stuff is, you know, it's physically taxing and you got to keep up and it's some work. And so I think when you look at it, it's, and just being around the game, the thing that surprises me the most, I think, are just how people react and look at officials. And I say that knowing that I think that there's a stigma for officials, like we're automatically, because we're wearing stripes, we're the bad guy. And I think people look at you differently, and kids look at you differently, like kids like look at you like, man, this guy's going to make this crappy call, and I got to go to the box, and my coach is going to get mad. And there's just a stigma of, we're there just to make bad calls. And it's not the case. And so the other thing that has surprised me over the years is, and again, being in youth, there's still a lot of kids that I've had when they were four, five, six years old that are in, you know, that are four teens, that are in high schools, things like that. And so, you know, I, and they know how I am. I'm a pretty fun loving guy. I like to joke around and do some things, but it's kids that I don't know when you start talking to them, like during a game, like during a face off, they look at you like, oh my God, this guy is actually human. Like he's not some robot out here just trying to make bad calls. He's actually cracking jokes. It's like, yeah, I mean, deep down inside, I'm a human being, and so I have a personality, and I want to have fun. I want the kids to have fun. I want them to succeed. I mean, somebody's gotta win, somebody's gotta lose. It's part of the game, but I mean, are you having fun doing it? And so I like to bring a little bit of that energy to a lot of the games. So, but it surprised me early on when, you know, kids would just look at you as you're talking to them and cracking jokes. They're like, what are you talking about, old man? Like, you're the ref. You're not supposed to be doing that stuff.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I will say it's not just kids, because over the last couple of years, we've had some new people join one of my teams, a couple of different guys, and they're not shocked that the rep, you know, that we chat with the refs, but they're more used to the refs that are talking because they're either not paying attention or the refs that come over and just like talk crap and nothing else. You know, come by, say something and then go away. They're used to that, whereas, you know, we have a number of refs in our league. You're one of them that just talk during the game, you know, or like, yeah, like you said, on a face off or something or before games. And it's not being a jerk or anything. It's not, you know, cracking on each other. It's just friendly banter. There's, I'm thinking of two people in particular that were just kind of shocked by this. I'm like, you talk to the rest? Yeah. Like, oh, you're trying to get calls and stuff? Like, no, like, I see, like, I see them, you know, however many times a year. I mean, we only have so many refs in our league. Like, you know, I see them up. Like, I don't know, how many times a week do I see you during the fall and winter?
RON_WILSON:Few times, few times.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yeah. So it's like, you know, you kind of, you see somebody that often. I mean, I see you more often than some of my teammates.
RON_WILSON:Right.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:You know, so it's like, yeah, you just kind of get to know people and you're chatting with them and yeah, they were just kind of shocked by that, that that's, that there's, I guess, that friendliness.
RON_WILSON:Yeah. And there's probably some guys that show up and see you and I talking or whatever and go, oh my God, this guy again, just had him last week and he's just going to make the worst calls or he's not going to do this. So I always worry about that in my brain too, where, you know, people look at you coming out of the ice. Because I mean, as a coach, I did that. I'm like, man, this guy. And, and, but again, you get to know their tendencies and, you know, you would coach your kids and say, hey, this is what's going to happen here. You know, this guy's going to make these calls. And so we have to be on the lookout for that and be on the straight and narrow, just whatever it is. But yeah, it's, you know, and again, like I said, I like to have fun. I'm not coming just because it's, you know, 50 bucks, you know, money's money. It's a nice thing to have. It's the separator, but it's like, I want to come out and get a skate. And I want, like, especially in the summer, I want to skate at least once a week, just to keep going and everything else. And, you know, the money is a nice thing, but I don't want to, I don't want you to be miserable, and I don't want me to be miserable.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yeah, I don't know. I have, I haven't seen from any team's diamond perspective of us seeing any of the refs and going, oh, no, not this person. But I have seen us do the thing of, you know, it's this guy. Well, we know this guy is not, you know, this guy really doesn't call any icings. So just be aware of it. You know, more, more things like that, not like, oh crap, but like this guy doesn't call that. Or, oh boy, this guy's got a super quick whistle. So anything that the, you know, the goal he gets, he's blowing the whistle right away. It's more of those kinds of stuff that we tend to learn from the people, you know, communicate out with the team. And when we see you guys come out, like, okay, you know, we know like, you know, no icing is going to get called or quick whistles or slow whistles or whatever. And it's also like a time of day thing, too, because there is the thing of certain refs are very different in how quickly they'll call stuff if it's a 730 on a Sunday versus a 1015 on a Tuesday, which I totally get. And I think everyone expect like that's I'm not saying that badly. I'm just saying that that's a I think a pretty normal thing, you know, because especially on how games go, like when you're playing 730, you were getting blown out.
RON_WILSON:Like everybody's got life going on. And so some guys carry baggage and they might be in a bad mood at 1015 or something like that and a better mood at 730. It might be sunny out or whatever. And yeah, I mean, that's that's the human side to things. But it's like any job or thing that you do, responsibility that you have is you try not to let one spill into the other. But I mean, inevitably, it's going to happen because you're dealing with the human sector and everybody's different, has different views. Somebody may be looking at this podcast later on and go, this guy is nuts. He has no idea what he's talking about. How is he representing officials? Well, it's just, that's my perspective.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:No, you're representing every official. What you're saying on this episode is literally coming out of every official.
RON_WILSON:I speak for everyone, across the globe. Hey, don't put my contact information on there. I don't need any emails, phone calls, texts from anybody. You can handle all that. Just filter those out for me, will you?
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:No problem. Any complaints, just come to the show. We'll take care of it. That's funny. So, you've been doing this now. I can't believe you've only been officiating for five years. That's crazy to me. But I guess it makes sense because, like I said, I knew you as a player before this, but I feel like I've known you for way longer than five years doing this. But you've probably seen some stuff, I'm talking strictly in the land of Beer League. You've probably seen some interesting, I think is the way I'll put it, things.
RON_WILSON:I mean, yeah, interesting things, situations. Are you strictly speaking from a player's perspective, or a referee perspective, or a player perspective?
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I mean, I was thinking referee, but I will also take player perspective as well.
RON_WILSON:Oh, man. I mean, from a referee standpoint, you know, it's, I mean, I don't know, you just, it's funny. I just didn't say funny because it happened to me a couple of weeks ago. You know, it's, you see some of your partners and you have fun with it when, like, a ref falls down. And there's a kind of an unwritten code, like, especially when you're doing, like, a high school game or a youth game, like, if a ref takes a spill, you know, they owe you a beer, you know, so.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Oh, okay.
RON_WILSON:There's a certain official that younger kid that I've known for a very long time that I've done a few games with, and he owes me quite a few beers because he's taken spills during games. And one of them, he, like, took a spill and, like, slid, like, you know, from the blue line halfway through the zone. And I'm, the play's going on, and I'm laughing my ass off as he's sliding on the ice. And I'm like, oh, you owe me a beer for that. And so, yeah, it's never fun when it happens to you, you know, like, but it happens. You get, you know, you get taken out or you get hit with the puck. And so those are the things, like, that amuse me. And I'm sure people, it amuses them too, like when I get hit with a puck or fall down or whatever, because, I mean, it happens. We're not, you know, perfect out there. I'm not the most fluid skater at my age. And so, you know, things happen. I don't really know if I can go in to some of the things that I've seen from a player perspective, because they're, I played on some teams where there's been some characters on the teams, and we've been a pretty tight-knit group and done some things and created some rules that, you know, around teams and personalities and things like that. Like, I'll give you one example. And these guys follow it today. There's teams that are out there that have, like, team jackets, and they award the team jacket to their player of the game after the game, whether it was good, bad or indifferent. And on our team, it was always, well, if you get the jacket, you number one, you have to wear it to the bar afterward. You have to get a picture with the bartender, and then you are in charge to bring beverages for the next game, if they are allowed, in the parking lot or wherever you have beverages. So it does a couple of things. One, it ensures that you have what you need for the next game, and it ensures that that player shows up, and then you just have fun around it. So there's been some pretty entertaining things that ended up in the pocket of the jacket, that when it gets passed down to pass down, that somebody reaches in to the jacket and finds... Because you can't wash it. It's like your jerseys. You can't wash the jacket. You just wear it. It's all sweaty, and guys have worn it without shirts on underneath, and they go to the bar, and they're just, yeah. And so somebody reached in to a pocket and found something in there, and it just kind of lived in infamy. We'll have a dramatic pause and let you think about that as smoke comes out your ears as to what you think it could be.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I really know what I want it to be.
RON_WILSON:Are you waiting for me to say or are we just going to...
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I'm waiting for you to say it now, yeah. Oh, yeah.
RON_WILSON:It was a male prophylactic.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:New or used?
RON_WILSON:Oh, oh, in the package, in the package.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Okay, okay, okay, okay.
RON_WILSON:Good question. No, in the package.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Okay.
RON_WILSON:Just place there in case somebody needed it, I guess. I guess that was the line of thinking is whoever put it in there had said, hey, maybe one of my teammates down the road is going to need this.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I imagine if you got the jacket, that's probably you're going out to the bar afterwards. You know, probably pretty popular at the bar with, you know, when they find out why you have the jacket. So you might need that.
RON_WILSON:There are some younger guys, let's put it that way. There are some younger guys that do embrace that and did embrace that. And so, yes. But for some of us old hats, that's, you know, we're just there to get a couple chicken wings and a couple glasses of water and go home.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yes, glasses of water. Yep. Well, I think, okay, that's good, because we're all about, like, the locker room stuff here. And I think you've noticed, you've noticed on my teams, we very much have, I think, a very good locker room culture. You know, we, for the most part, everybody likes to hang out afterwards, you know, and just kind of. I mean, we're hanging out and talking about the dumbest stuff. I always, I'm always thinking about this show and thinking like, hey, maybe there's going to be some good hockey-related topics I can bring up. No, it's never, it's almost never hockey stuff like that. We talk hockey in the locker room while everybody's kind of changing. And then by the time we get out in the parking lot afterwards, it's like the most random conversations of stuff.
RON_WILSON:True.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:But it's, you know, it's fun stuff and stuff people really get into. But it's, it's like the dumbest crap. It's, you know, people talking about something they saw on TV, or, did you guys see this, you know, this thing somebody had on Instagram, and then they're showing everybody on their phone, or, I mean, you hear it. You hear this stuff that, you know, at least that we talk about, and it's...
RON_WILSON:Well, but again, that's a sign of, you know, everybody, like everybody knows everybody. Again, teams that I've played on, you get into a locker room and you come early because maybe you haven't seen guy, like it may be the first couple of games of the winner, winner league, and maybe you haven't been together. Some guys play golf and do stuff in the summer, most guys don't skate, but those first couple of skates, I mean, you're around these guys a lot. You're in the sanctity of the room. Again, there's nothing like beer league hockey, right? That's why it's called beer league, because you go to a rink, you're in a room, you're playing throughout the winter, so it's freezing cold outside, but you're in a room to get dressed, then you're out on the ice, sitting on a bench, then you're in the room afterward to get undressed. So, you know, I always, when I played, the one thing that we always surrounded ourselves with was guys with good personalities. I mean, the hockey playing had nothing to do with it. It was, do you have a good personality? Are you reliable? Are you gonna show up? Like guys don't show up, you got stuff going on. But you get, you know, there's guys that I played with that I've known for a very long time. In fact, they were kids, they were hockey players in the youth program. And so you bring them on and you talk about their families. You talk, like there's guys on my last team that I played with that were all in their young, like early thirties, they just started getting married. They just started having kids. So yeah, you talk about like life stuff and things like that, and hockey brings you together. Nobody wants to like, you know, you talk about like, oh, you see this NHL game, or did you watch this, or did you see this? But, you know, the nuances of the beer league and things like that, I think it left behind once you kind of leave that room a little bit. But you get to, you know, you get to know guys on a personal level, and that's the fun part is you always want to surround yourself with people that you like to hang out with because you spend a lot of time with them.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:No, that's, yeah, that's perfect. We have on, you know, on my summer team now, well, not anymore because he's gone, he's away at college. We have one of the players' kids has played the last couple of summers with us. And it's this funny realization that I've had and other guys on the team have had of like, wow, this kid, like this kid's been on the team now for I think like three years or something. But a lot of us because we've known his dad for a long time, we've known this kid for 12 years or something. Like we've known him since he was a little, little kid. You know, and like that's what you get to know. You get to know everybody, you know, like, we always, one of the big running jokes is I know everybody's family on my team because just you meet people, random people come to games or, you know, go to a tournament or something and they bring family and you meet everybody's wife and their kids and sometimes parents and all kinds. It's just funny how you get to know everybody like that. Like, that's why I was saying the difference between kind of making friends with Beer League versus like people you work with. People I work with, I don't know anybody's family. And there's people that I worked with for, you know, four or five years and maybe I knew their significant other. Maybe, you know, from like, oh, we go to the Christmas party every year or something like that. But then there's guys like I've played hockey with for three years and I'm like, oh yeah, I know their wife, I know both of their parents, I met their sister, I know their two kids. You know, they all know me kind of thing. And it's a very different atmosphere of people. Very different.
RON_WILSON:Well, but again, that's the perspective. And I mean, we're just concluding the summer session for our league. And there are several teams, one in fact, I mean, your team with a father-son combo, and then there's another team that with a father-daughter combo, and then the son plays on another team. There's another team that there are three, four, there's a lot, five sets, five sets of fathers playing with their sons. And that's fun. I mean, it's a great, and like I always said like, and my kids have said the same thing, like wouldn't it be fun if we could play beer league with our old man? Like that's passed. I mean, they don't want to play with me anymore. But when they were growing up, they're like, oh, I'm going to play on dad's beer league team. It's like, well, one of them does. Oh, and that's a higher level than I can play at now. But yeah, it's fun when it gets to be like that.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yeah, to me, that's one of the great things about beer league in particular over even other sports, because I've played other sports and other club sports as an adult. And I haven't seen that. And I think that there's something with the locker room and just kind of how hockey is, that you're kind of separated from everybody in the locker room. And I don't know, there's something with it that makes it different, where you get a lot more of that camaraderie.
RON_WILSON:The only thing for me that was close to that was in my early 20s, because I was a baseball player growing up. So most people don't know. I mean, I did not play hockey growing up. I grew up around a lot of hockey players. I grew up in a hockey community. And then it just never materialized for me just because of parents and knowledge and things like that. But I always had interest. But the only other sport that was kind of like that was softball. Like through my 20s, you'd play like a Tuesday, Thursday, Monday, Wednesday, then maybe you played on a tournament team. So there were teams that I had played on where you were around guys all the time. But you could never get to a level, a competitive level like what we see in hockey, where you're playing with your kids or you're playing with your parents. And that's the one great thing about our sport is that hockey you can do as a lifelong sport. That's the one thing people don't realize. They're like, man, you're in your 50s, you still skate and officiate and play hockey? I'm like, yeah, because it's a totally different motion than most other recreational sports. And you just run across people that, like again, when we started this off, how many teams come into the league every year where there's adults that are learning how to play in hockey North America, because their kids played, and they want that experience at the same level of experience. I give them a lot of credit. I mean, that's the hardest thing. One of the hardest things I think you can do is learn how to skate and play hockey as an adult. You know, but there's a respect, and I give them credit for giving it a try because they just have interest. And there's guys that play for years based on that.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yeah, it's a lot of people. It's shocking to me. Well, I guess not shocking anymore, but it was shocking to me to see that of how many, like, the learn to play class is just because, you know, my kids started playing and I wanted to try it. And to me, one of the things that is always, I don't know, fun to watch, interesting to watch. I'm not sure what the right word is. When you go to these first couple learn to play sessions and people are kind of like really skating for the first time, they're not just going around, you know, hanging on to the side rail. And it's kind of the light bulb moment of like, well, this is hard. Oh, my God, like, you know, I have my eight year old doing this and there's zip. This is crap. What the heck? And it's funny to kind of see because you see that, like in the first couple of things, you see people start to realize it. And then you even hear people saying it, you know, of like, oh, man, I was just I went to it. I think it was this year when I heard somebody saying that they were just yelling at their kid about not hustling. And like, I think they were trying, they just couldn't go faster. It's hard to go fast. And it's like, yeah, yeah, it, you know, it is.
RON_WILSON:Well, that's the unique thing about the sport too is, you know, growing up, like not everybody can coach it because it's not like, you know, baseball and soccer and somewhat football where there's a level of competency. I mean, you have to skate. I mean, there are coaches that don't skate. Let's not diminish that. There are coaches that a lot of people know that they don't skate. That's a very rare exception. For the most part, when you're a youth, I mean, you're out there demonstrating drills and demonstrating things and, you know, edge work or whatever else it takes. And so, there's that level of competency. But on the adults, that's why it's hard as an adult because it's easier for a kid. Where's their center of gravity and their balance? It's much, much lower to the ice than an adult. An adult, your center of gravity is four feet off the ice. So when you take a fall, it's a bigger tumble than it is when you're a five-year-old taking a tumble on the ice.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Well, and kids are a lot less afraid to fall. Like, they're a lot more of the, I'll go all out and then fall and then realize, oh, it doesn't hurt. Whereas, I'm thinking back to like when I went through the beginner program, that was one of the first things they tried to have you do is fall right away. You have all this gear on, fall, so you realize it doesn't hurt. And there were a large number of people that were like, okay, I'll fall. I'm falling, I swear, slowly. You know, and they're like getting, that's like, no, just drop. Like, it took them forever to do that. And some of them didn't. And it's like, because you're scared of it.
RON_WILSON:Is it because of the falling or is it because of the getting up?
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Well, that was a whole other thing of the getting up. That was a whole separate lesson once you fall and being able to get up, because, I don't know, getting up, I don't know, I, sometimes I feel like I get up super fast when I fall or slide.
RON_WILSON:In your own brain, in your own brain.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Well, sometimes, that's what I was gonna say. Sometimes I feel like I get up super fast. And then sometimes I'm just like, I can't get like everything underneath me and it's taking forever. It's, you know, and I know how to get up, but it's just, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't work.
RON_WILSON:Yeah.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:All right. So this, I have in the idea of not keeping you all afternoon. I have one last question, and then I want to do some rapid fire questions.
RON_WILSON:Boy, okay.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:So last question, we've talked about skating a bunch now. One of the things I think that doesn't get thought of a whole lot is, how different is skating as a ref versus skating as a player?
RON_WILSON:Well, number one, it's a lot more controlled because you're worried about positioning on the ice. I mean, I think there's some agility built into it because you're getting out of the way of a puck, or you're getting out of the way of a player or sliding player. And so it's not just the skill of skating, but it's the anticipation of what could happen. But again, the one thing as officials, we always talk about is, and that's the hard part when you start or when you're continuing to do games and there's lesser skill, because you don't know where things are going. And I can tell you, I've been hit several times with pucks because, and this happens at the youth level too. It happens all over the place. A kid coming around the net has his head down, a dog has his head down, his or her head down, and just throws the puck. And you're just kind of in the way, and so you got to hop over it or do something. And so, yeah, there has to be, you got to have, still maintain some level of skill at any age when officiating. But from a skill set standpoint, I mean, obviously, the majority of what you do or what you should be doing is going backwards. So you have to have a level of competency for backward skating, you know, moving on the ice without looking at the ice because you're looking at the play, getting out of the way, things of that nature. So there's, I mean, I will tell you, there are current referees that are, they're not young, they're adults, like they're past 30. Some of them are taking skating lessons because they take it seriously and they do some high level stuff and they want to get better.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I mean, that's good to hear and that's good to know that people are taking that seriously. From my perspective as someone that reffed way long ago, like 20 years ago, and was terrible at it, the two things that were most difficult for me for skating was one, it's kind of nonstop. Like, it's not, you're not skating as hard, maybe necessarily, but it's just nonstop movement, like the entire game, which very different, which was tiring as all get out. And then the having to watch, like watch a play, but keep an eye on a play, but then be moving in a different direction. You know, like where when you're playing, you're kind of looking where you're going, maybe you're scanning a little bit what you're doing, but you're looking where you're going generally. Whereas, that was the thing that really got me for doing that. It's like, you're like, okay, I'm watching the puck, but I know I need to slide over to be able to get this angle over here. So I have to keep watching. And that was a very different skill set and very difficult for me. Yeah.
RON_WILSON:Yeah. And it's, I mean, there are times where, you know, you think that a player should go, I mean, as just the game, but the board side, players coming down with the puck, if they're close to the boards, you know, as a youth coach, you're teaching those players to enter the zone wide, meaning take the board side, come in wide. But then there's guys that want to cut in on the blue lines. Where are you giving them space? So you're going backwards, you're looking at them, and you're saying, oh my gosh, this guy's going to kill me. And I can't tell you how many times I've said, this guy's just going to run me over. I'm just, you know, but how am I going to get out of his way? And or you give him the boards and he goes around you, or you take the boards and he goes on the inside. So yeah, there's, you know, it's not only the skating, but it's the anticipation of where you think the play is going to go. And sometimes you guess wrong and a player just kills you. And you're like, you know, sorry, I don't mean to get in your way, you know, or you're on the boards and you're trying to let the play go past you and somebody throws the puck up the boards and it hits your skates. You know, then they get mad at you because they were gonna make that perfect three-on-one breakout pass and it was gonna lead to the game-winning goal and it hits your skates, bounces off, turns it over and goes the other way. Well, I can't do anything about that. I'm trying to get out of your way. I'm not trying to purposely do it. It happens.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yeah. Yeah, no. And I've seen like I've seen that I've seen all those from all different perspectives of it and that's, it's the same thing of different, you know, we've talked about the various levels of just beer league. Yep. How like it's easier to play at higher levels because people know what they're doing. I would think it's easier from that perspective to ref at a higher level because generally people are doing what you think they're going to do. It's way faster. But generally, whereas like beginner level, I know who knows what people are doing or what they're thinking. And they might be going, I'm trying to go here, but I'm going here. I don't know why. And I can't stop.
RON_WILSON:Yeah.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:You know.
RON_WILSON:Yeah. I mean, the great point on the speed. I mean, yeah, the higher level skill games are faster. They're not necessarily easier. But again, it's just a different skill set. You know, guys are going to make better passes. They're going to shoot better. They're going to know what they're doing. You know, yeah, your struggle is you got to keep up with the play and the plays a lot faster. But again, that's all part of the maturation as an official to get to that. You don't start off by doing those. Like, I didn't do a level one or level two game for the first three years. Because number one, I didn't want to. I wasn't ready for it. It's just like I didn't do high school. I didn't do high school. I wanted to do youth for the first couple of years. Because somebody told me early on, the more games you do, the slower the game gets. Meaning, you know, you're out there and you can take it all in. I remember doing my first 14U game, Bantam game, which is in youth sports or youth hockey. It's the first opportunity they have to body check. And the first time I did a 14U game, I was terrified to death because I thought the speed was just, it was so quick and I didn't want to miss a call. I didn't want somebody getting hurt. And you know, now it's like, it's not a big deal to do 14U games. It's not a big deal to do high school games because I've been in that situation. So it's the same thing in the adult league, the beer league, it's like, you know, once you start doing those games in general, it just becomes a little bit easier because of your experience.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:That makes sense. And it's the same as playing. That's a similar thing to playing is, as you play a higher level of the game, hopefully slows down a little bit as you get better, better and better with it.
RON_WILSON:Yeah, you just... I always said playing, too. It's when you played a higher division, and there were times where it was lopsided. It might be 10 to nothing in a game, but you had an unbelievable skate because just the level of skill was there, and you're playing a team that had higher skill, and even though they kicked your rear end in, you're still like, man, that was a good skate, even though we got our butts kicked, because you're going up and down the ice.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Yeah, I've been a part of those. I've been on both sides of those kind of games.
RON_WILSON:We all have. We all have. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing. It happens.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:All right. So like I said, I think in the idea of not keeping you all day, we usually end when we have somebody new on with a couple of rapid fire quick questions. Usually these are more directed at players, but I think they're still applicable.
RON_WILSON:Okay.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:All right. This is actually just a general question I have with refs, is I ask base layer or no base layer? Like under your stuff.
RON_WILSON:Base layer. 100%. Sometimes multiple base layers because it get cold.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I guess that's true. Yeah, you don't have all the stuff on you. So yeah, that makes sense. Skate socks, athletic socks, dress socks, or no socks?
RON_WILSON:Last year, I wore a pair of hockey-specific socks that were cut-resistant. I still have them, but for some games, I'll wear athletic socks.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Any particular reason? Ankle socks?
RON_WILSON:Just ease of putting them on and off and sweat. Like if I wear a pair of athletic socks that are ankle socks, I have a pair of shin tights or whatever that I put on, so the equipment's not touching my skin. I've gone from a base layer where I have padding all the way down to my ankles, but I've resorted to, let's say, football pants, padding, just shorts underneath, just elbow pads up top. Some guys wear padded shirts, but for me, I don't have padded pants either. There's some pants that come with shins and hip protectors and all that stuff. I like to tell people I've got enough protection around my hips and my waist area to soften any blows.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I don't know. I mean, I have the full gear on, and I've taken some falls that they're terrible. I can't imagine doing that with nothing. All right. And this is more of a player one, but you played slap shot or wrist shot.
RON_WILSON:Wrist.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Wheel bag or backpack bag.
RON_WILSON:Wow. If you're only giving me the choice, I'd say backpack. No wheels.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Just those two. Okay. Then parking lot cookout or locker room beers.
RON_WILSON:Both.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:One or the other?
RON_WILSON:Well, obviously, with the weather being where it's at, it's probably locker room.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Okay. And then 6 a.m. game or 11 p.m. game.
RON_WILSON:I've never played a 6 a.m. game, so I don't know what that perspective is getting up that early. I've skated as an official 6 a.m. games. So I'd probably, from an official standpoint, would probably say 6 a.m. versus 11 a.m. Would be preferred.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:But would it be different as a player?
RON_WILSON:I mean, I think so. I mean, and it depends on your age, things of that nature. But I mean, getting up and playing a game at 6 a.m., I mean, it's hard to rough a game. I mean, I think the earliest I've done a game is like 6.30, maybe 7 a.m. And that's, I mean, it's just hard to get going. It's hard to get going. But then sometimes late at night, you're just dead tired, and the last thing you want to do is skate a game.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:That's true. That's why I ask. I will say, from my perspective, the absolute worst time for a game is like the 8 p.m. game. Because it's early enough that, you know, you can't really do anything after work, besides get ready. But it's not right after work, and it's not late enough that you can be like, oh, I can have some dinner, or I can sit down for a while. No, it's just at this really bad time that it's not early enough to be okay and not late enough to be okay.
RON_WILSON:Yeah, but 8 p.m., you can get the most spectators there.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I know you can get like four, sometimes six. Oh, that's crazy.
RON_WILSON:That's capacity.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:And that's when the scouts show up, too. That's what I've been told.
RON_WILSON:Well, they show up at any time. They'll show up, and you won't even know that the scouts are there.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Well, they're watching on LiveBarn. They're watching all the movies on LiveBarn. So you don't know.
RON_WILSON:Well, they're watching. Trust me.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:I know. I know. I'm just waiting for the call. It's coming at some point.
RON_WILSON:I know. We're all waiting for it.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:All right. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Ron Wilson. Appreciate your perspective as a beer league and a whole bunch of other stuff, ref and former player. This has been a pleasure, and I hope you enjoyed it.
RON_WILSON:Yes, this has been fun. I really appreciate the opportunity to share some of my experiences.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Hopefully, we can get you back on. Get some questions from the audience out there. If people have stuff that they would like to find out, get your perspective on. Sure. I'd love to hear from them.
RON_WILSON:Yeah. If there's any other topics that come up, yeah, I'd be happy to jump back on.
THE_BEER_LEAGUER:Awesome. Well, thank you very much. Thanks everybody for listening. Catch you in the next one.
