Blue Collar Business Podcast
Welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast with Sy Kirby. Dive deep into the world of hands-on entrepreneurship and the gritty side of making things happen. Join us for actionable tips on scaling your blue-collar business, managing teams, and staying ahead in an ever-evolving market. We'll also discuss the latest industry trends and innovations that could impact your bottom line. If you're passionate about the blue-collar world and eager to learn from those who've thrived in it, this podcast is a must-listen. Stay tuned for engaging conversations and real-world advice that can take your blue-collar business to new heights.
Blue Collar Business Podcast
Ep. 15 - Concrete Costs & Labor: A Subcontractor's Guide to Success
Get ready to unlock the secrets of the concrete industry with our guest, Bobby, an experienced subcontractor who has spent years mastering the art of concrete construction. Discover the nuances of working in this challenging field, from the demanding schedules and unpredictable weather conditions to the intricacies of cast-in-place versus precast concrete. Bobby brings his expertise in specialized areas like sewer and storm drain systems to the table, offering invaluable insights on the importance of specialization and the significant impact of rising costs on the industry.
In our conversation, we tackle the stigma surrounding blue-collar workers, especially those in construction, and highlight the craftsmanship and precision required to excel. Through Bobby’s experiences, we explore the meticulous work involved in building structures such as lift stations and manholes, and the dedication needed to integrate new builds with existing infrastructures. The discussion also challenges societal perceptions and emphasizes the crucial role skilled workers play in both the economy and our everyday lives, advocating for a shift in how these essential workers are viewed and valued.
Finally, we compare the paths of skilled trades and traditional college education, highlighting the benefits of pursuing a hands-on career. With personal stories and hard-earned lessons, we delve into the challenges of being a small business owner during the COVID-19 pandemic, navigating increased demand, and the relentless push for excellence. This episode is a testament to resilience, strong work ethic, and the commitment required to thrive in the concrete industry. Whether you're in the trade or simply curious, this episode promises to offer a deeper appreciation for the hard work and dedication that goes into shaping our built environment.
Sy-Con is a family-owned civil contractor specializing in water, sewer, storm drains, & earthwork.
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Hey guys, welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast, where we discuss the realest, rawest, most relevant stories and strategies behind building every corner of a blue collar business. I'm your host, cy Kirby, and I want to help you in what it took me trial and error and a whole lot of money to learn the information that no one in this industry is willing to share. Whether you're under that shade tree or have your hard hat on, let's expand your toolbox. Thank you, guys, so much for checking back with us here. In another episode of the Blue Collar Business Podcast we are, I'm going to say, roughly man. We've got eight or nine episodes in the tank and I'm hoping you guys are finding value in each and every one of these episodes, bringing you some type of blue collar business strategy.
Speaker 1:Today we are talking in the world of concrete and being a concrete subcontractor and I really hope you concrete guys find some interesting info. I had to bribe my concrete sub basically to get in here and I really appreciate you coming buddy, but I got to tell you here in Northwest Arkansas our spec is quite a bit different than most of, I guess, the lower 48. A lot of part of the country, and let us know in the comments below on what part of the country is cast in place concrete, because right here in northwest Arkansas manholes are cast in place, storm boxes are cast in place, everything concrete structure-wise. Essentially there's some precast stuff that some of the cities here will allow us to use, but normally it's hey Bob, I don't know what this box you have to come do this box, I don't know what I'm doing, and Bobby comes out there and picks apart the engineered drawing and gets us on the go. But a couple of topics I want to cover today. We're going to be talking about the stigma with concrete work and concrete workers in general. There's some of the hardest working guys out there, as we all know, have to deal with crazy time slots and concretes and big pours and how the weather affects it and it's just crazy, a crazy life to live in general. And it's just crazy a crazy life to live in general. We're going to be talking about factors that affect price in general cast and plays versus precast. Let's talk about the cost increases that we've dealt with in concrete over the last seven, eight years.
Speaker 1:We're going to be talking about specializing in a niche business like Bobby. But, as they say, there's riches in the niches and Bobby is a premium niche and he's extremely good at what he does and we wouldn't be hardly anywhere without him laying sewer, doing any storm drain, et cetera. Everything's cast in place every type of junction area, inlet, curb, inlet. So if you guys haven't seen what I'm talking about, you can go check it out from the presenting sponsor today psycon, excavation and utilities. Um, we have a youtube channel with roughly about 22 000 23 000 subscribers on there. Go jump over there. There's plenty of what bobby does, plenty of his structures that have been poured on there. But furthermore, before we get officially introduced, make sure you guys head over to BlueCollarBusinessPodcastcom, if you like.
Speaker 1:Hearing about the blue collar work in space, I'm trying to integrate the white collar into help business owners like me and Bobby try and get a little bit better at what we do, Because there's not a whole lot of folks out there trying to help, you know, help us succeed in the business part. We're good at our trade, but they're not necessarily anybody out there trying to help us with business. And that's what this podcast is to shed light on some of my failures and inadequacies, and I figured you'd get a jiggle out of that, but you know what I'm trying to learn and I have learned every single podcast. I've sat down with every single one of my guests. I'm learning and I hope you guys are out there learning as well. So, furthermore, mr bobby, freaking booer with booer construction, the man, the myth, the legend, the concrete name around here for a long, long time Thank you, man.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, let's talk about kind of how we met each other. I can tell you from my side it was a God-given deal because I was working with a concrete subcontractor who had just started out, was trying to pour some manholes. You came in behind. You remember that job. We'll not name that one but I had no idea about the concrete structure world, nor was I trying to get into it, but I was trying to trust the wrong people. I trying to get into it, but I was trying to trust the wrong people. I can't say they were necessarily the wrong people, but maybe not as much practice of the art as somebody like yourself, but I was walked into this.
Speaker 1:We had this ADS drainage structure. If you remember I think Dollar Tree was kind of the first go around and we had 700, we had 384 linear feet of 3x5x6 box culvert double stacked right next to each other and we had these ginormous DOT rated boxes on both ends. That job was freaking crazy and I was scared to death because I had some manholes go really bad with that said contractor, subcontractor Concrete Wise, and I was scared to death. I had this really $1 job coming through and I knew I needed to be teamed up with the right guy. And you called me like out of the blue, from we're not going to name any names but from some other subcontractor relationships weren't going so well and that opened up an avenue for me and I, by God, jumped all over it and I've tried to be better than them. Guys, of course. But man, these subcontractor relationships, guys, I can't preach to you guys enough.
Speaker 1:I talk about relationships. It's not everything, but, man, it sure is a whole hell of a lot to do with business, and Bobby can't do work without the pipe guys and the pipe guys can't do work without Bobby, and so it's this relationship that you have to play. But there's also some lines of respect that we had to learn as, being a subcontractor like, hey, this is the third time I'm calling you for an elevation stake. For the love of God, will you tell your boys to give me an elevation stake and a CMA ring, and it was things like that. Man, it's been such a fun challenge over the last two years of navigating this. It hasn't been a challenge, it's been a freaking blessing the whole time, challenging from my standpoint because I want to be the contractor that can pay you in 10, 15 days, but at the same time I'm going through these growing pains and dealing with what I'm dealing with.
Speaker 1:But we've navigated our relationship that I don't think many can say they have. Would you agree? Yeah, absolutely, and I think that takes a big give and take back and forth. I've got to give a little, bobby's got to give a little forth. I've got to give a little, bobby's got to give a little. And, man, it's saved my butt. Dollar tree is what I'm trying to get at. I would be hosed. I wouldn't have got that job done. We took on an underground detention system and looked like a giant septic tank but it had about eight concrete. Well, it probably wasn't that many, but there was several concrete structures as things drained in and interdrained and etc. Etc. And you really helped us, and especially those do2 boxes. But, man, concrete work, dude, tell us, tell us a little bit how you guys started uh, my, my dad always did concrete work, the man.
Speaker 2:And uh, when I was a kid, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to do what dad did. I didn't like school, I knew so, no college, no, I knew it. I remember my dad saying when me and my brother graduated are you guys going to school or are you gonna work? And we said no, we hate school, we're not going, said I think we. We got out of school on like maybe a friday and he said okay, well, there's work truck waiting outside for you guys for monday. And so we tried telling him no, we're gonna take a week or two off before. And and that's when he told us no, you're in the real world now. You work for a living.
Speaker 1:Yeah did he make you pay rent at home while you were working?
Speaker 2:well, well, we moved out maybe a week or two before school was out, but it was just in one of his houses, right, we had to rent from him.
Speaker 1:You bet, I know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he gave us a break, but he also wanted to keep us close, to make sure we were at work every day.
Speaker 1:And you were doing. Back then you guys were working, you were doing a bunch of curb.
Speaker 2:Oh, we support a ton of curb Bunch, A ton of curb with curb machine. So the whole time my dad was running everything he loved curb and getter. We wanted to run that curb machine nonstop. Since I've kind of transitioned to things. It's more storm boxes and manholes, you know. And now when we were working, when my dad was running saying we still did a lot of storm boxes but we didn't really do anything with sewer right you've kind of perfected the manhole game, buddy.
Speaker 2:There's no. Yeah, I was. I remember telling him like I'm gonna go do some manholes and his advice to me was you better get it right the first time and you know what.
Speaker 1:That's exactly why I use you time and time again, brother, because I don't know about you guys. You pipe utility guys, listening. But if you've had a leaky manhole or a bad manhole, listening. But if you've had a leaky manhole or a bad manhole, it's usually not in the most easy access location where you can just dig it right back up and fix it. It's usually the booger that was poured 20 months before any concrete or asphalt hit the job. And now some, for some reason, we're just getting around to testing and then there's an issue. So I have played the leaky manhole game and I, I guess I guess a lot of places in the country. Bobby, we sit here and talk about it, but the leaky manhole game and cast in place is is a bad game to play. You do not want to do it twice, you, you don't. Nobody makes money doing things twice, but I guess would it not be weird? And in the precast world, I mean, how would their tests go? I mean just, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean they don't really allow, especially in sewer. They never allow it around here, but there are places that they do. So how do they pressure? I mean they, well, they're going to have to just there's probably a little more lenience on it going to have to just there's probably a little more lenience on it because you are plugging around the pipes, you are doing you still got to get inside and pour floor to match your flows. Do they? Do they?
Speaker 1:still do brick floors in some parts of these countries and mortar brick floors in there, like up in the northeast all of.
Speaker 2:It's crazy. This is arkansas. They're super strict on it. Yes, they don't even want to give you a chance to fix one hard. Nope If it's leaking.
Speaker 1:They want it ripped out and and you know what, from being on the municipality game and being starting out in my career, I get it they're having to service it for the longevity longevity of that manhole 20, 30 years, right. And so if it's already having a little bit of problems from the start, they know it's going to have problems for forever and they've got to deal with it. But at the same time, give a man I mean we're not perfect, we're going to make a few mistakes here and there and at least give us a chance to fix that mistake before we just rip it out. These manholes ain't cheap and when you're digging them out and then you're ripping them out and then redoing it twice, nobody ever makes any money doing anything twice. But it's just such an insane process to not get wrong you can't get it wrong.
Speaker 2:Well, and as much concrete as they want in the base of them. Today it costs a fortune Two hooders, yeah, it's cost a fortune two hooders. Yeah, and cost a fortune. Then you got if you got a redo and you got your machines for and then you got sewer line, you got to replace. It's costly effect on everybody and it's never uh.
Speaker 1:When you're in the sewer world, it's never uh you know a couple grand situation.
Speaker 1:It's always a five, 10, $50,000 conversation. Really quickly, you're I mean, if you're pouring an 18 foot deep manhole and it was in two piece or whatever you had to pour six foot IOD man, I mean it can get crazy, yeah. And you've poured a bunch of lift stations too. Yeah Right, fair share of lift stations, that's uh, that's one game we've. We've done nothing real crazy. We've helped on a few lift stations. Let's put it that way. I can't say psycon has done a lift station but, um, definitely have the people in place to do one, now more than ever.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, you can pour eight, eight foot we can pour four foot, five foot, six foot and eight foot round boxes, oh my god. And then we build square ones to unlimited size. Yeah, whatever literally.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that even computes to some of you guys, but they'll. There will be forms and it'll. It'll look like a medusa of wood ready to take form for walls or floor et cetera, and they will literally pour all the walls in place per grade, per elevation, all of it. And it's a craft, a mastered craft that few have figured out. You can do it. You can do it okay, but doing it well, doing it the first time and walking away from it and knowing you've made money is a totally different thing, dude, and the manhole game, that's a different conversation.
Speaker 1:But stormboxes and you've got a little bit more leniency there there's not as much strict, you know, it's just more or less pouring some concrete and if you know how to form it correctly and not blow out and um, but where Bobby helps me in a storm, you guys got to understand when we're saying cast in place, we're pouring from the curb, um, curb inlets and area inlets, like it's all got to meet, of course, top grade, and if you pour too high walls, your lid's going to be too high, your box top's going to be too high or your throat may not be right.
Speaker 1:You may have to, and we were just talking about this last week, how Bentonville requires you stop short of the curb and curb has to be there before you can pour the throat of a curb inlet. And me and bobby are on a project right now and it's in between some phasing, let's put it that way and there's a section with a box that we've poured because we had to finish out our public storm run but we can't pour a top on it without pouring a throat on it. But there's no curb going in that phase section. So we're kind of, of course, an owner wants he wants it, you know, the liability to be gone, he wants to put a top on it, etc. But at the same time it's it's going to cost him twice as much by the time he gets it actually put on there if we don't wait until we put the curb.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Anytime you put the top before the curb you risk the liability of alignment and grade being correct. It's hard, man In northwest Arkansas curb not straight, hardly anywhere. They love to put radiuses and thirds.
Speaker 1:Islands and green spaces.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude, if the curve's there, then you just match the curve and you just move on, move on.
Speaker 1:Well, seriously, my first topic of today so we were kind of talking about it before is there's a stigma I've talked about on this show so so many times about how you see a blue collar guy five o'clock, a hundred degree, august day, sweat.
Speaker 1:He's ran out of sweat by then and he's just dirty head to toe every single day. Um, but you run into at a gas station, you're going to look at him and go, oh, that guy's kind of dirty, but it doesn't. You don't compute dirt to money like we do and that this but it's. We're looked down upon other than you know tradesmen, knowing each other, you know I can look at a concrete guy and go, oh, there's a concrete guy. And I can look at a framer and go, that's probably a guy that runs wood all day and you know you've got a pretty good understanding. But how do you overcome as a business owner and not just a guy that goes out there and does it, but as a business owner and a concrete man, how do you overcome that stigma going home dirty as crap every day? What do you? How do?
Speaker 2:you overcome it yeah I I mean, personally I that stuff doesn't bother me as bad. I mean, I I'm like this three-fourths of my life. I'm usually dirty and I work every day. Yeah, whether it's take the kids, it's kids of sports or whatever. Afterwards, usually I'm in my boots and concrete clothes and yeah, I'm usually covered in it and uh, it so to me. In my eyes, that's, it's just who I am. I love it bub. Uh, when I came here, I didn't run home to switch clothes or nothing. I got them pouring concrete and as soon as we wrapped things up and broomed it, it comes right here.
Speaker 1:You literally texted me. You were like hey, bob, I'm pouring at one. As long as concrete don't run light, I'll be there and I'm like this is awesome.
Speaker 2:That's it. Always waiting on concrete.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:But there's definitely a look that you have, I mean a thought process that somebody has about you. Um, I mean I I'll go usually my wife's picking the kids up from school, but if I do, you know, it's usually in the work truck, in the form truck trailer behind me. I'm filthy, uh, you know, I'm the only one there that looks like that. Yep, but I mean, at the end of the day, there's a lot of trades, whether it be concrete or life's rule, mommy, whatever, there's a million trades that you can go make money at and make a living very quickly and you're not in debt from school or anything like that.
Speaker 1:You can just go straight to work I talk about it on the show and I wish more people understood and heard me that man, four years of college. We were just talking earlier, as I came into the studio, about this workforce program here in Springdale School District and I was there yesterday and trying to explain through these seniors' minds of you can go to college, rack up debt for four years, come out of college and maybe have a job for the degree that you chose, or you can be a likable, respectable human being and go to any skilled trade around here and go hey, I'd like a job, please. And I'll start from the bottom. I don't know anything but I'd love to learn and I promise you you'll have a job before you can blink at any concrete company. You know what I mean, but everything is fast-paced in our world, anyways. But literally the college conversation when a man can go out and him and a crew can clear a million dollars pretty quick if he's a master at his trade. You know what I mean. Yeah, and that's within four or five years.
Speaker 1:Guys, now don't get me wrong, it takes a lifetime to master a trade. I ain't no master pipe goddurr guy, nothing like that. Now, I know a lot, don't get me wrong, but I still learn things. You know what I mean. Now Bobby's been pouring concrete. He's a master of I'm telling you guys of the boxes and the manholes, but it's so true to, the experience is priceless. Education is expensive. Topic is that you can. You can go anywhere and as long as you are a respectable human being and ask questions, you can pick anything up and as long as you retain the information. I think the biggest frustration for me and I think it would be as you as well, bob is people not retaining the information. I don't like saying it six times yeah, retaining the information. I don't like saying it six times If I'm telling you hey, every single day, we get out the truck, get tape measure, we get this tool, we get that tool and that's what needs to be out. Second day, a little reminder yeah, hey, forgot that tool.
Speaker 2:Third day. We better have tools out ready to go. You know what I mean Quit to retain that information. Well, I'm a micromanager, that's something that, uh, that I need to work on, but I'm I'm the first one there every day, last one to leave, every 100 percent. Oh yeah, if I'm starting somebody coming into this, wanting to come into this field, or any field like this, if you just show up every day, work hard, pay attention, I mean you, because that's something that everybody, that people are lacking, dude, no one cares. Everybody wants to pick the cell phone up 100 times throughout the day. Uh, so those, I mean just finding somebody that was was willing to work. If you're starting at seven o'clock in the morning, then you need to be on the job, tools ready, ready to go at seven. Not, I am 15 minutes down the road At 730. Yeah, time is money for everybody.
Speaker 1:And in the trades, as business owners like, we try and enlighten them. But the amount of money that equates to our time is ridiculous. And if we're not moving and when we can be on this job right here, because you know this is billable, what you're working on isn't billable, why you got five guys over here and it can get out of hand really quick, you know as a business owner. So I, what I'm trying to get at is that I feel for you. In the micromanaging piece, it took me a little bit of time to figure out how to delegate. And don't get me wrong, I figured out how to not delegate and some of my systems fell right on their face. But I'm currently in the middle of figuring out a few systems for the size of company that we are. But if you don't put those in place it's hard to grow and scale. But are you thinking about another crew anytime soon?
Speaker 2:I don't know, it comes across. If the right guy came across, right, that's right. I mean, the right guy is someone that's. I made the comment to a guy the other day. I don't know how these companies are hiring somebody and just telling them to go. You know, go do that job and it being done correctly, because I'm. I get a lot of my work just off of reputation 100% Just doing it like they, the other contractor, they I might not be the cheapest guy, but they know that I got to do it two or three times You're dang right and, honestly, it's easy to sell to GCs.
Speaker 1:from that standpoint, hey look, it does cost some more money. But guess what? When it's poured, it's done. We don't have to dick with it again. We don't have to worry about it not failing or not passing a test, a vacuum test, line, pressure test it's going to be done and we can walk away from it. And that means a lot Time. Money is a tool to buy time and it's just if everybody on the project also views it that way. You know what I mean. So a lot of people go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, the owners always wanted the cheapest guy, I mean the guy paying for it. You know but a few bad incidents. And then they learn the cheap guy is not always the route to go.
Speaker 1:I can't even tell you guys, experience is freaking priceless when it comes to that. Because, oh, there is, there is definitely ways you can throw together a manhole and you can rent the forms and and do it yourself. But I don't have any of my guys that do concrete in general and let alone I say that, okay, shout out to mr bill. Bill's got an understanding of concrete. He don't like foreign concrete but, um, he's kind of a jack of all trades. But, man, I want somebody. Number one I probably need to shine some light on this dude.
Speaker 1:I mean for, for being a micromanager though, you handle it very freaking well. You're always there, you can always. When I call the phone and hey, bob, I'm thinking about this, I try to give you as much heads up as I can get. And then I'm thinking about Tuesday or Thursday. What do you think? Well, if you can get me inspection on Wednesday, I can be there, and you're always willing to think well, if you can get me inspection on Wednesday, I can be there, and you're always willing to work with me to try and figure out how I can get my job done on time.
Speaker 1:And that's a big part of that give and take. But, man, you, you never fail to be there on time when you're supposed to be. I don't when I tell people Bobby's doing it. I don't have to sit there. Bug Bobby, hey, show up. Hey, I need you to's. None of that. You're there, you get it done and you freaking walk away, and I can't tell you how much that means to any company out there, but especially me. So thank you for that, because, uh, I know how hard it is being that guy and having three or four and five and six people and they're all relying on you and you're trying to put everything together for the next day and then one guy, two guys, call in and then you're like, well, dang it, I was just trying to get ahead, and well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:But I don't always make everybody happy by. If they're wanting me there tuesday, you know I'm like, well, you're not getting me till Thursday or Friday or something. But people are different. Some people will tell you what you want to hear to make you happy. For that moment, I'm just going to be honest with you. You have to. If I'm not going to be there, I'll let you know ahead of time.
Speaker 1:Yep, every time, every single time. And that Dollar Tree job was a 2021 job, 22, right at the end of 21, it was cold as hell. Um, anyways, we've been working together two, two and a half years and, uh, we should have found you sooner, but let's talk about. We've been hitting around the old price and factor, but let's talk about all you know, when I first started dude eight, nine years ago, mud was 85 a yard yeah, I can remember 40, 50 dollars a yard you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And here we are. I'm paying north of 200 and something dollars, or just under 200, depending on where from it's like it's crazy yeah, for one yard of me it costs the materialists outrage. Just lumbers high, rebars high I just I don't understand how we and I just got a concrete increase last week yep, five percent. And I'm like, oh my god boys, like how do we even justify it?
Speaker 2:And they almost always hit you up January 1st for another one.
Speaker 1:And what are the factors you're seeing that's driving the price? You're maybe talking to some developers here. You may be talking to some investors here, and this is kind of your chance to make sure they understand everything involved in that price. It's not just pouring a box. You know what I mean? Correct, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, we're pretty blessed in Northwest Arkansas for a lot of construction, a lot of work, and that's a good thing and a bad thing. The bad thing you always have a million companies that want to start and want to come in to northwest arkansas. Yep, and they come and they go. But I mean, if you're trying to sell the job to somebody, you, you, I'm not a talker, I, I mean you know, I, I just shoot people straight. Yes, you do, sir. Uh, when I'm I'm upset, people know I'm upset. When I'm not, they know it. And there's jobs that I steer away from. I mean, you've seen that when somebody starts trying to hound you with too bad on the price for off the get-go, I'm just like, nope, it's all been for me. I go somewhere that I know I can make money. If I know I'm not making money, there's no reason to go try it. I don't need to do it for free, I don't need the practice.
Speaker 1:No you do not and you can't lose money on a job you didn't do. Yeah, I read that about 18 months ago and it's really stuck in my head because I'm, as you know, a yes man and I'm like, oh, yes, sir, we can do that, we can do this, we can do that. Oh, and then some of the situations I've got us in over the years more Saigon specifically oh, they're fun, let me tell you. But then you meet people like Bobby to bail you out and to help you out along the way. But, man, there was a little bit of a sand. What was it? Fly ash or potash? Fly ash for a while? Yeah, hard to come by. Was that in? What is it? 21 or 22 or something like that? Yeah, that was from the reveal. Yeah, After COVID, I know COVID changed everything. It literally changed everything, and I'm not blaming it just on COVID here, guys, I'm just speaking on the timeframe of COVID, that 2021 thing. Yeah, being a quote-unquote essential worker, you didn't stop, did you?
Speaker 2:No, we didn't miss a day.
Speaker 1:I didn't miss a freaking day of work. And I can't tell you the amount of people I paid to stay to sit at home during that deal, so I didn't end up. I mean, the law was changing every other day. I didn't want to get sued by any of these and if they were sick I just had guys that were sick four and five times. Everybody that were sick four and five times. You know Everybody that was sick caught it, got a fever, they stayed at home for their quarantine time. But man, what it did to the world dude, yeah.
Speaker 2:We are a fairly small company so we kind of stay, you know, close with all the work, hands and myself and whatnot, and so we just kind of talk and we discuss. Like you know, we were kind of all on the same page like, hey, we, we got to work, we got to make a living. If we we're not born concrete, we're not making a living, we'll die hungry. He said it, covid I'm not.
Speaker 1:I'm not starving bob yeah.
Speaker 2:So I can only think of one, maybe two guys that you know kind of come in. One guy was pretty new working and he come in and he says, well, I got COVID. I'm like, well, man, you got to go to the house and it's just right as it kicked in, and then I guess he was upset. I never seen or heard from him again, so I didn't have to worry about that one. That's the concrete world, ain't it? No, man, I can't tell you how many guys we have hired. They might work an hour, might work half a day, might work one day. I might work a few. But I mean, just this past summer we stayed so busy. It didn't get any rain, weather kept going, everything was boomed and we had I don't know how many new work cans we tried out this summer. That just wouldn't last.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got a good crew now you well, they've always been there. But yeah, then same old shout out to steve, shout out to stone cold, steve os yeah right, he's, uh, he's loud but he works.
Speaker 2:He likes to work, likes pour some concrete, but the um?
Speaker 1:what's it take to make concrete? Is that a weird question to ask? I know you know the answer.
Speaker 1:I would I would assume rock and cement sand fly ash yeah, so that's one, two, three, four materials, five, four to five materials and then you can start adding calcium and everything else. But those are your four basic items to go in concrete and if one of them's lagging behind you're gonna have an increase in price because your demand's so high and it's. It got absolutely crazy there for a minute and it's still crazy. Um, I think people, just when we go to hand numbers in man, they just like, well, what happened to this price in 19? And I'm like, well, covid happened, buddy, and nothing's come down well, and the concrete plant keeps raising prices.
Speaker 2:But I mean they obviously they have reasons to also. Yep, they have a shortage of drivers. They work, oh man, they work lots of hours start early in the morning, run late in the evening, like that takes a special breed there. Yeah, so they got to pay their drivers extra money just to get them to come do with that.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Overtime, overtime, overtime.
Speaker 2:And so then their materials come up. Well, it's just a trickle. And then their materials from their suppliers have all raised and they probably pay their drivers more. So it's just a trickle effect. And the bad thing is we're the guys at the bottom of the line showing the owner the price for it.
Speaker 1:Dude, it's terrible. Them drivers, man, some of them pourers, start at midnight. Some of these commercial pourers guys, to get all the trucks and get that amount of yardage they'll start at midnight, two o'clock, or these giant slabs it's unbelievable to watch when they have a good crew that know what they're doing. Man, it's, it's crazy. But the hours them guys work is is nuts. But um the concrete niche especially, not just um the concrete niche, but you're even in a niche of a concrete, of concrete world. And just pouring boxes, specializing in a niche, do you do? You? Are you ever afraid that you're not gonna have enough work? Something like that? I know, I know that may cross your mind, but I I can't really say that because you have the opportunity of able to pour curb, you can do it all, but you just choose. And why? Okay, I guess my question is why do you choose to stay in just that niche? And it's gonna be probably a?
Speaker 2:simple answer well, if I can perfect something and it's something that not my dad always told me if you'll do, if you'll figure out something that nobody else wants to do and you get good at it, you'll always stay busy, yes, sir. And so here I am still pouring concrete.
Speaker 1:He's a wise man, dude. And not only that. You know, with Northwest Arkansas being cast in place, I'm telling you guys, it may sound easy to y'all Animals, ain't easy. There is nothing about it easy. There is a process to them that if you don't know what you're doing and then talk about the weather, dude, the weather through summertime, bobby will call me and be like hey, I got a motor, like 6 am, dude, you better have my stuff there. And'm like yeah, bob, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, but the weather swings with you guys. Really drives when you can pour or not absolutely.
Speaker 2:There's times where it's, you know, slow. If it's snowing outside, obviously you're not pouring no concrete, but, uh, if, when I would say there's um, you, the summertime, when the weather's good, the whole time, I mean you probably make over a third of your money for the whole year right there, because rain days, cold days, I mean we're pretty fortunate we get to work all year round, but you know it's. You know 40 consecutive days, but you know it's. You know 40 consecutive days you can get a whole lot more done than when you got 40 days and you've had to miss 12 of them because of weather. That's right. It just puts you behind every time you come back another day. That's right.
Speaker 1:And I got to tell you guys, I watch this man and his small crew pour concrete every single day and I'm telling you he's best he can't pour every single day. And I'm telling you he's best can't pour every single day. Um, but you know he's pouring. You're pouring in the morning normally. I don't bug him till 10, 11 o'clock because he's probably pouring getting something off. You're there putting your hands on dang near every pour. Yeah, and then I guess the afternoons is more for forming and getting ready for the hour, stramping and forming and getting ready for the fall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just tramping and forming. And sometimes we get there early in the morning. You've got to strip something so you can form something up real quick. It's not a job for everybody. You have to like it. If you like it, then I mean you don't really get lunch At least ourselves, we don't really ever take lunch because you have to be ready when calling on us what. And then nowadays that in city inspections everything has to be inspected, dude, every day I need an inspection somewhere. Yeah, so if I mean you gotta, and then you gotta take whatever they have available sometimes. So you just have to make sure you're ready. So that means you got to start earlier or start stay later, the so you just have to make sure you're ready. So that means you've got to start earlier or stay the day before. You've just got to do it.
Speaker 1:Bobby beats me out of a VOCA every single day. I can assure you that I feel fortunate. We've got a tiny little shout out to the one-stop tiny little gas station. I'll meet him there every once in a while and I'll be getting through earlier the 530, the 6 o'clock window and I might catch him, but most of the time he's waiting around on me. There ain't no doubt about it, or me and my guys, but we've gotten a lot better and, man, we've learned some systems, though it's taken some time, but the guys we got that you work with now, man, there's a totally different caliber than when you first started. Oh yeah, my guys, and they've learned, you too, and they've learned. They all know what Bobby wants.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, poor Dakota, my first job was with him. He's not a morning person, I am. I'd be calling him 4 or 5 o'clock in the morning, nonstop, until.
Speaker 1:I could get an answer. Oh my God, he would come into those Monday meetings. So mad dude He'd be like, and he'd still be late. He's still late to this day, dude. I can't even tell you, I love him to death. But my wife just shot him a text about him being late and not clocking in. And he's not late by much, but it's always five or ten minutes. And I'm like, god bless, son, it drives me crazy. Some people are like that, but I got to give him the benefit of the doubt. He does drive an hour and 20 minutes, something like that. That'd be tough. Yeah, he comes out.
Speaker 2:He does drive an hour and 20 minutes, something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he comes from up there in Missouri and thank god he does. He's learned a lot. I'm really proud of him, man, where he's come from, and you've gotten to watch him. I mean, dollar Tree was, yeah, I got boy through the mud.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was getting his feet wet for sure, and but specializing in a niche, guys, I I'll just kind of talk about it for just a second, because bobby hit the nail on the head man, if you can do something that I'm not, a whole lot of people want to do, and then you find out you're good at it. You may not love it, you may not like it, but if you're damn good at it, keep. You may not love it, you may not like it, but if you're damn good at it, keep doing it because you will always be busy and as long as you produce a good product, you're not going to have to spend a whole lot of money in marketing. You're not going to have to spend a whole lot of money in sales, because the work's going to flow right back to you. Don't get me wrong, there's some other guys around here that form animals et cetera. But once you build a product and a reputation of, hey, it's pretty much going to pass first time every time, and if it doesn't, we're right there and we're going to get it fixed up and we're going to get it taken care of. We all make mistakes but there's so much more money to be made in a niche with margin than anything else Excavation I would talk you guys out of excavation if you guys knew how to pour a manhole in your part of the country.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you, or you know drone technology or there's so many applications. I know that's. I was just trying to show the opposite ends of the spectrum is like we have from concrete manholes. I'm trying to think of another like bona fide niche. Underground fire suppression is kind of a niche around here. It's where we kind of got our start.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, not every job is for you in those niches and that's the hard part to understand that. I think Mr Brewer's got figured out that he has no problem saying no and going meh, that one's not going to be for me there, tim, and we're going to move on. But dude, I wish, I truly am a little jealous. I mean, I wish I had it figured out with one to two crews me where I could keep hands on enough and make the profit is kudos, dude, kudos for real. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:We talked about this a little bit already with the old rolling through employees. But it's hard to even mentorship or train anybody nowadays because they don't necessarily want to learn to begin with. But by the time you show somebody a little bit of mentorship, they take that as weakness and then they turn around and take advantage of you. I know, you know that, mr Business Owner. I mean, you've watched it with some folks of me and you've had to call me and go hey, so-and-so, not ratting on nobody, but definitely letting me know as owner-to-owner, hey, you may want to keep a closer eye on this because this don't look right towards you, you know. And man, I've appreciated that so much. But the mentorship and training people over the years, dude, does it not get old?
Speaker 2:Yes, and concrete is a hands-on bill. You can go home and watch a YouTube video, but it's not going to show you how to really finish concrete.
Speaker 1:Don't be hating on YouTube, damn it.
Speaker 2:But I mean it is. It's a hands-on Yep, and that's probably why it's hard to find concrete hands. It's used to everybody. You know back in there everybody's backhoe or track or whatever open cab, it was hot, it was cold, whatever. You just dealt with it. Well, now everybody's got gps, everybody's got eating air. So a lot of you guys you're like why the heck would I want to go do concrete? Yeah, I want to be warm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, concrete dude I have such mad respect for them boys. I still to this day can't finish a piece of concrete and save my life. Don't get me wrong. I could pour a little slab here or there. You know what I mean, a little slab of sidewalk, but that's about it. But no, the respect given to the foundational piece that's looked over so many times.
Speaker 1:And with concrete dude, that 50 to 1 ratio, I thought I tell my guys all the time it's like nobody cares about the 50 good slabs you pour, but that one little piece of the bad slab, everybody gonna talk about that one bad spot. Eh, yeah, and it's just you have to. It's about mistakes you make and how you handle them and as long as they're fair about it and anything can be worked out, you know what I mean. But ah, the training and the mentorship. I have no problem training people that want to be trained, but the mentorship side of it, man, I've mentored some people really, really close to me.
Speaker 1:But man, I've been stepped on and it's hard as an owner not to be just a little vulnerable here with you guys, but it's extremely hard. You get hardened would be the word to open up to the next guy coming in because you've had so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so step on you, like you didn't do nothing for them. And I'm not just talking monetarily here, I'm talking about time and just everything. But I know you've dealt with that along the way. And how do you deal with that over and over again so that way, when the right guy does come along, you don't miss him?
Speaker 2:I, I don't know, uh. I mean, I just feel honestly, uh, you go through people, people come in, you might need just some extra hands for a couple jobs. Yeah, so you sacrifice on what you need, who you need, um, but I mean, god's always placed some people in and with me, that every time dude helped me get through every time, dude, I don't know where I'd be without the big man.
Speaker 1:There ain't no doubt about it. Well, um, one last question for you, mr Brewer. What's a takeaway? I ask everybody here, as a guest on the bluecollarbusinesspodcastcom show, what's a takeaway for the blue collar worker who is sick and tired of being stuck in the mud and that can be emotionally, mentally, as you. You know it's hard mentally being a business owner in the trades world, let, just to begin with. But then you'd stack on being dad and then you stack on being husband and everything else. But what about that guy who's just sick and tired of being stuck in the mud?
Speaker 2:first you gotta I mean you gotta figure out what you want to do, who you want to be, and you've got to accept that I I know I'm not a suit and tie type of guy I never will be, so I mean this it fits me, but there's definitely times. I mean, if I'm sick, I still got to be there. If not, you know if, if the weather's bad, you still got to be there. Yeah, you got to make sure that you're that your work hands are getting enough work done. Where you're making money, yeah, but then you also got to make sure they're staying busy. You know they're getting hours, that they can make a living. Um, it's just I don't really know how to answer that because it's just you already have. Really, you just gotta, you just gotta accept it. He's gonna it.
Speaker 2:I tell my kids all the time you know it's only as hard as you let it be If you put it in your head. You know my youngest son. He's a racer and a wrestler and I tell him all the time he's a good one too. You know a lot of that's in your head. If somebody's good, then you want to beat them, you want to wrestle them, you want to beat them, race them, whatever, because you want to be the best. That's right. So, yeah, you know, I tell my work hands all the time also, like it, it's not that hot air, it's not that cold. Like you, you, it's in your head. You got it and they think I'm crazy.
Speaker 1:But you're right, though. It's all about our thought process, man and, and it's all about perception, about how we perceive a situation is going to go, and by the time most of the time we get into the situation, we're like dude, it's not even that bad. What was I even stressing about?
Speaker 1:You know, what I mean. Train that mindset up a little bit, because that mindset is full of power and if you set your mind to, absolutely anything is possible. Of course big man above is a helpful tool there. But setting that mind, having some goals, like you said, knowing where you want to go, and guess what? If you're listening to this, you're 18, 20 years old. Go through a few trades, figure out again. You may not love the trade, but it may love you and you may be good at it.
Speaker 2:Well, if you don't like it, if you just hate it, there's always another trade. You go to college for four years and, getting that debt over something that you don't use, you're still stuck with the debt A hundred percent.
Speaker 1:I know of just about any construction site in Northwest Arkansas. If you're pouring concrete for six months and they go to start standing steel up, I promise you you walk across that job site and go hey, mr Steel, man, I want to start working with you guys. He'll sign you right on up. I mean it's crazy, but, man, I really appreciate you coming in and hanging out with me today.
Speaker 2:Dude, it's been I appreciate you having me, I hope.
Speaker 1:I hope a few concrete guys. I totally understand it's out of your wheelhouse and it was definitely um. Me and bobby talk a lot on phone, just not a whole lot in front of a microphone and a camera, for sure. But, guys, if you've loved this episode between me and Bobby, go check out the rest of our episodes at bluecollarbusinesspodcastcom. I hope this was a deep dive into a concrete man's world and his thought process and, man, it's been really enlightening. I've been waiting to get you on the show, man. And another thing is just to close it out it's just so cool to sit here with somebody truly love you guys and the product that you display, but you and your family, and to have the relationship that we have business-wise and outside. You know we care about each other's kids and where they're going and what's going on, and so, man, I just appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Uh you know relationship as well, I do too, and it goes both ways, man I still haven't made it to luke's race.
Speaker 1:It's so bad. But furthermore, guys appreciate you hanging out with us. Until next time, you guys be safe and be kind. If you've enjoyed this episode, be sure to give it a like. Share it with the fellers. Check out our website to send us any questions and comments about your experience in the blue collar business. Who do you want to hear from? Send them our way and we'll do our best to answer any questions you may have. Till next time, guys.