Blue Collar Business Podcast
Welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast with Sy Kirby. Dive deep into the world of hands-on entrepreneurship and the gritty side of making things happen. Join us for actionable tips on scaling your blue-collar business, managing teams, and staying ahead in an ever-evolving market. We'll also discuss the latest industry trends and innovations that could impact your bottom line. If you're passionate about the blue-collar world and eager to learn from those who've thrived in it, this podcast is a must-listen. Stay tuned for engaging conversations and real-world advice that can take your blue-collar business to new heights.
Blue Collar Business Podcast
Ep. 17 - Building Bridges: Enhancing Blue-Collar and White-Collar Connections
What if you could transform your blue-collar business into a digital powerhouse? Join us on the Blue Collar Business Podcast as we sit with digital marketing innovator Eric Howerton, founder of WhyteSpider, to uncover the secrets of bridging operational gaps and adopting an owner's mindset. From the evolution of his journey in magazine publishing to leading the digital marketing frontier, Eric shares invaluable insights into mastering communication and leveraging skills for sustained growth. If you're pondering how to overcome funding challenges and aspire to turn ideas into successful ventures, Eric's story is a treasure trove of practical advice for burgeoning entrepreneurs.
Explore the compelling world of video marketing and its undeniable impact on business landscapes. With video content now commanding an impressive 82% of web traffic, the transition from traditional to digital commerce is more crucial than ever. In this episode, we discuss the power of starting small, even with just a smartphone, and the importance of consistent content creation. Uncover the shift towards digital influencer marketing and how strategic use of platforms like YouTube can create revenue streams. Whether you're at the start of your digital journey or an experienced marketer, this conversation provides actionable insights into adapting to the changing market dynamics.
Communication is the linchpin in connecting blue-collar and white-collar industries, and this episode shines a light on its significance. We delve into strategies for enhancing communication between sectors, preventing misunderstandings, and boosting project outcomes. Learn how professionals can break through communication barriers, improve client relationships, and facilitate business growth. Discover the value in adapting to clients’ preferred methods and the importance of effective communication for personal and professional triumphs. This episode is packed with strategies to refine your communication prowess and capitalize on customer relationships to secure business success.
Sy-Con is a family-owned civil contractor specializing in water, sewer, storm drains, & earthwork.
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Hey guys, welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast, where we discuss the realest, rawest, most relevant stories and strategies behind building every corner of a blue collar business. I'm your host, cy Kirby, and I want to help you in what it took me trial and error and a whole lot of money to learn the information that no one in this industry is willing to share. Whether you're under that shade tree or have your hard hat on, let's expand your toolbox. Welcome back, guys, to another episode of the Blue Collar Business Podcast.
Speaker 1:Man, have I been waiting for this episode when I say I learn every single time I step foot into the studio. I learn so many different variables coming at me, but I learn and try to suppress them in my tiny little brain as quickly as I can. But the gentleman that is joining me today is somebody special, mentor-wise to me. But you guys have seen me push hard into the digital marketing space. I'm sitting here doing podcasts, I'm doing this YouTube, and a man that knows probably just about everything there needs to know about digital marketing analytics is sitting across the table from me and is the founder and owner of this beautiful podcast videoscom studio that we are sitting in today, and actually a client of mine as well, but founder of the digital marketing space. White spider, um, essentially, but uh, the man, the myth, the legend mr eric howerton man, I feel, I feel fantastic.
Speaker 2:This is great. A couple of things. I'm gonna clip this shit out and put it on my.
Speaker 1:Put in my linkedin a couple of topics we're talking about today. Um, as you guys can tell, we've got quite a relationship outside of here. I'm very excited for this podcast to be a little bit looser on the format with you guys, but a couple of topics we're going to definitely cover today and the man talk about it is here with us. Bridging the gap between the office, basically between ops, and admin, would be in y'all's world. Exploring how blue collar workers can think like an owner it's a huge thing. Master communication across all roles, leverage transferable skills and overcoming funding hurdles on their path to business ownership. A couple of topics we're talking today. Man, how are you? Great Dude?
Speaker 2:thank you for being here, man. Man, it's an honor. Honestly, I mean it really is Don't even no man, bro, for real. I mean I respect so much about your listeners, about what your show's intent is. I mean it's like it's what makes America great, man. I mean just straight up, even though I did notice on your logo. What's the Canadian leaf doing on there?
Speaker 1:man Dude showing the heritage, where, where I'm from. And actually you know what's funny is that this specific logo right here I had a. You mentioned linkedin. I had a guy reach out to me while I was in canada a couple weeks ago. Um, he said, hey, man, love the show, love everything it's about. Funny, funnily enough, we have some major similarities. I'm from Toronto as well. I moved to northwest Arkansas Really, I'm redheaded and I do dirt work and he's an ops manager for another dirt work company and I'm like it was funnily enough.
Speaker 1:I was sitting there in Tim Hortons and I took a picture of the Timbits. I'm like, hey, does this remind you of your childhood? And I had a good laugh. But we're gonna bring him on the show and talk with him a little bit. But that's uh, the little maple leaf. We've got some canadian listeners. Francis bow shout out um in quebec. Uh, he lays heavy civil construction and listens to the show. We've got quite a few canadian listeners. Honestly, it's kind of cool. So I'm glad they put it in there. I mean it looks cool dude, it's just.
Speaker 2:It's just subliminalliminal. I didn't notice it at first, you didn't. No, I didn't Not when I was seeing the logo. I just, you know, whatever, it doesn't matter, we're not doing a show about your logo, but it is cool. No, I appreciate the intro man. I'm actually like it's, you know. I hope that our conversation can help some folks and help people be more successful man, I kind of talked highly on the digital marketing space.
Speaker 1:How long you've been in the digital marketing world?
Speaker 2:man, I mean you know the funny thing and this is like just in humility it's actually accidental that I mean I do have recognized about two or three years ago, like I'm. I am literally a a veteran in the digital space, only because I just happen to be of a old enough age, and, you know, at 24 or whatever, when digital really started coming out, which would be in 2000s, right, yeah, so 24 years ago and and I just happened to be around that age and got into it at the time and then have been in it since.
Speaker 2:So I mean, it's like I've seen, you know, I'm not just in it, though, dude, you were pioneering well in in some regards, like and I would say that it that we were pioneering certain markets within the digital digital age. Right, I mean because, like you know, uh, my first business was a was a magazine publishing business, like I was.
Speaker 2:Yeah that actually yeah, it's 22, and I did an outdoor, a magazine about outdoor arkansas and uh, it was all about print, you know, high quality gloss print, and so I knew that stuff really well and uh, but then, you know, when we were doing that in back 2000, 2001,. You know, you need, that's really when people started saying, well, you need to, you need to have a website, like to any business, right. And so, um, you know, really started getting a digital then. But, I mean, um, you know it's as well, I kind of got more into the digital aspect and e-commerce started growing. Like we just kind of follow the trends.
Speaker 2:People are buying online, the people are doing articles and blogging, there's content online and yeah, I mean, in all that stuff we just, you know, I've just noticed that, you know, e-commerce it's not like we pioneered e-commerce. We were participating really early on with e-commerce and then we saw in like larger e-com with the walmartcom and how the traditional brick and mortar businesses were having a hard time transitioning into the e-com world because they're shipping big pallets, you know, and that's their business. And we just, you know, we helped to pioneer, I guess, that industry, that sector, to understand the value of the digital experience when it comes to customer shopping.
Speaker 1:Shout out to the Dirt World A little statistic to throw at you that I wasn't there, but I had several people reach out to me while they were there during this speaker out to me while they were there during this speaker um 82 I don't know if you agree with this or not 82 of web traffic is now video. That's oh yeah, that is it like? That's an astonishing number. Like why would you even put anything else onto the internet but video if you knew that? You know what I mean. And yeah, these guys, if they haven't started, where do they start?
Speaker 2:I mean I mean just start with your phone, I mean get on it. I mean like it's you know, the thing about it is is like we can in the digital realm we can, it can get really complicated really quick and as it should. It's just like you know. I mean respect for what you do, right? I mean like, yes, I do have a skid steer, skiddy, oh, skiddy, and mini and mini and an old trailer, trailer, yeah. But man, when I get out there, you know, and it's seamless, yes, I can pick up the same amount of dirt that your skid steer can, potentially. But the polishing, the and speed, yeah, and efficiency and know-how and all these mistakes, but if I was trying to be an expert like you were the second I bought my skid steer. I'm going to live in a very frustrating environment and I might sell the damn thing and just not even get it, but I've just lost all that opportunity for me not have to call you every damn time.
Speaker 1:It's kind of cool when your client's got a skiddy. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I mean, I mean.
Speaker 1:I'm finishing up a project. He's like I'll get it with your skiddy.
Speaker 2:I haven't used it as leverage, like don't make me bring my own skidster out here. So I've done that many times with you and it is always kind of comical because I obviously wouldn't do. I mean I could do a worse job than helping myself. But it's the same kind of principle. You know what I mean. But at the same time, if you get your camera and you just start playing with it, you'll start learning over time. Give yourself some, be patient with yourself. But the big principle is like what you're talking about is you've got to start acting, you've got. But the big principle is is like what you're talking about is if is you got to start acting? You got to start publishing, you got to start leading in. And how can you use video, you know, to help tell your story is really what all it can be.
Speaker 1:You have to, though, but I mean marketing yourself, like I get it, guys. I was literally seven and a half, seven years in when I was like maybe we should start marketing, you know, and I just literally did exactly what you're talking about. I turned my phone sideways and was that weird guy on a job site starting waving my phone around what are you doing, man? And then I put a video together and I throw it on YouTube and the other thing about YouTube that I probably haven't expressed as much, but a gentleman told me that if you could go in your hometown right now and buy every single piece of real estate for free, would you do it? Well, yeah, of course you would. Every man on the planet would. Well, why are you not thinking about the same thing as digital space? On YouTube, it is literally digital real estate sitting there for the rest of your life. Yeah and hey, it will start producing revenue, I assure you, if you keep up the consistency.
Speaker 2:But that's not really go ahead. Well, I have a statistic for you too. I was doing some research a few weeks ago looking at advertising media buying placement and, like you know, I mean like there's everything going into television, broadcasting, print and all these different mediums that you can pay to have an advertisement in, and one big thing. I mean it's just kind of a reiteration, it's kind of obvious to most of us, but the majority of all ad money is now being placed in digital influencer marketing yeah, I mean the whole social media marketing, you know, you know linkedin to whatever else, all these things.
Speaker 2:I missed the boat on that, I mean so. So just get that big old bubble there, well, but then when you start peeling that back, what I found was really interesting is that youtube advertising so advertisements on youtube videos, right like x, not meaning video creation, but people, the skip ads, yeah, the people that are putting their money in ads on the YouTube section or in the YouTube channel grew by 90% in 2020. Nine zero, oh, my God, like just a massive hockey stick of people placing dollars in that channel. And that was because of covid. But so what? Yeah, the thing. But you know, then it starts the but here's the thing is that the growth continued the next year only like by eight percent or something like that.
Speaker 2:I don't want to be, you know, definitive on that, but it was, you know. Check them guys, yeah, please, yeah, and send something in if I'm wrong. You know, let's start, let's wrong, let's have a digital argument. That would be great, but the thing is, it grew substantially and then it just kind of stayed with whatever the rest of the market was doing. But my point to that is that what that means? Is what COVID really helped to do? Is it expedited and accelerated the, the the normal usage of the mass population of consumption of video as content? And so now, since that time, if you notice instagram, facebook, linkedin, tiktok, tiktok, all these social channels and their leveraging of the video content as its source or as a predominant player of how their users are consuming information, that has changed forever Drastically, yes, drastically, immediately and forevermore.
Speaker 1:It's nuts, dude, the video stuff and you know like what we're doing, you've encouraged it. I literally saw a LinkedIn post last night and it was a guy just walking across the job site looking at a loader and the title was commercial construction needs the story told. And I'm like, yeah, we do, and not just from a glitz and glam aspect Talk about the business side of it. And that's what we're officially here to do today is talk more about the business side of it. Nobody better to do it with and I know you have a little frustration with the construction industry, just slightly and he's shared them and they're all valid points. I've got to say, first point of the day, how blue-collar workers can adopt a business owner mindset, can sit there and think like an entrepreneur even while they're just employed not an employee owner, but just an employee. How do they think like an owner, taking ownership, problem solving, seeing the whole picture, all of it, the kid in caboodle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's a deep question, I think that you know. The number one thing, I think, is like if you're going to step out, be an owner, or even if you're employed, everything's relational. I mean, it doesn't matter what business you're really in, it's primarily relational, of course, unless you're just a pure software company. But that's the value of being a pure software company. It takes a lot of the relational element out of it, and that's why the valuation is so high in software is because it's mass, you know, and there's not of that. Yeah, I mean, people are subscribing, like when you, you know, use google, gmail or your you know, or whatever, or advertising within the google search or whatever software it is. You know, that value is growing not because of one person or a deep relationship, and so it's just kind of taken off. It's it's spread across mass, but in most all businesses it's relational, and so I think that if you use that, if you, if you are working or in business, and that relationship must absolutely 100 be so significant to you, yes, now, it doesn't have to be in order to go in business. That's the big problem.
Speaker 2:Great point, that's my frustration. That's been a lot in the industry that you're in is, in my experience as somebody, that Consumer A consumer, yeah, I pull out my wallet, I've worked really hard on my cash. A consumer, a consumer I pull out my wallet, I've worked really hard on my cash. Now I'm going to give you this cash to provide a service and my deal is that, yeah, you might be really good, you have capability, but what I've seen so many times is that there's not a reciprocating value back to me as somebody that's providing the cash, and so the relationship should be really simple. You know like it's.
Speaker 2:It's basically like you can go back to the dawn of time, like the bartering system or whatever. Like you do business with people you like and trust and they'll take care of you. You like to provide services to somebody that has the cash and that will pay on time. That's right, number one. But the thing is is a lot of times I see it doesn't get reciprocated. It's like, okay, I don't get told when things are being done, I don't get told when things are costing more, I don't get told when there's hiccups in the timeline, my project's not getting done. I don't understand what happened there. You know this communication and so I feel my value is really low in the tunnel. Oh and then, by the way, if you get a better job, you're out Job hopping A lot of common and there's mystery behind all that the job hopping.
Speaker 1:I can clear that up for you. It's all about cash flow. Yeah, sure, 100%.
Speaker 2:But the rest of it, man, you're on something, I get it, but the cash flow impacts my time life, so, anyway, we can go into that. But I mean, I think the thing about it is is that there's a lot of and then there's some short sightedness of where I'm. I'm literally just a payer of a project versus a long time, long, long term relationship, because the value of what I have is I have other people in my network that need the same same service and I can connect that. And if you make me extraordinarily happy which is hard to do, which is hard to do If you make me really happy, there's a foundational thing. I read it a long time ago. I don't know what the book's called, but you don't really want happy or great customers, very satisfied customers. You want raving fans. You want campaigners, man Campaigners.
Speaker 2:Within your team and your customers Absolutely, and I think that if you're in business for yourself and you don't see it as that, you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot. You are, you're going to experience businesses only. Problems are either good or bad, and short sightedness is if you're my customer and your expectations are really high and I don't satisfy those because you're pissing me off and you don't understand my business and my cashflow problems. So I'm doing things that you don't understand, my business and my cash flow problems. So I'm doing things that you don't understand, but you're barking at me. I get agitated with you and I'm like, oh, you're only paying me $10,000 for this job, but I got somebody else paying me a hundred thousand, so I devalue that relationship. But what I've done is is I've shot myself in the foot for the extra $250,000 in jobs you're going to be able to get me by being a raving fan 100% dude.
Speaker 1:I literally every single one of these episodes has me going. Relationships is everything. Relationships is everything, and it truly isn't, but at the same time it is. It literally goes down to the basics of any of you guys listening can go meet a guy tomorrow that has a problem that you're really good at fixing and he can put you in there, fund it and take off and you just created a whole new career. But a lot of what eric's hitting that is literally industry struggle.
Speaker 1:Um, you come from a very over communicative, over um scheduling uh, a lot of dude. I didn't even know what a nat chart was until four months ago. Like, don't get me wrong, we run off Excel, uh schedules, but the nat specific what it does. You know maybe from the Walmart sector, but it's not just that, it's industry broad. You know maybe from the walmart sector, but it's not just that, it's industry broad.
Speaker 1:Um, the way you guys communicate, it is like stone age where we're at in communication and I agreed with you through that. Um, and it may not be your communication, but like I just sat here on an episode yesterday I was literally talking with chris may street, with an engineer who's a lot of my issues. But we communicate really well. It's not about verbal communication, it is hey want to make sure you're okay. I want to understand your problems. I want to make sure that, personally, this relationship is going to last. Okay, we've had that phone call, we've made some decisions. Follow up directly with an email. May not be within 24 hours, but make sure that email gets across. Everybody's understood. Let's move forward. But then guess what, once that email is out and things change. From that email, what Eric is mentioning to you guys and I'm telling you he does warning straight up hey guy, a top soul is pushed out a couple of days. Uh, can't get this machine here, everything's going to be pushed back a couple of days of days, can't get this machine here, everything's gonna be pushed back a couple of days. You're gonna be much more responsive to that rather than pulling up to the job and going what the hell is going on? I thought we just talked about this on Monday and things in our world, literally having a meeting just before I came here. Everything changes every five minutes in our world because we live in a very uncontrollable world.
Speaker 1:We're installers, we're civil installers and you architectural guys. You guys would say the same things, as you're building a building. Well, the architect didn't see this coming. But it's our job as professionals to reach out to the engineer and go hey, man, look, I'm seeing this. Here's a couple of solutions. It's literally the exact episode we just did yesterday. Here's a couple of solutions. It's literally the exact episode we just did yesterday. Here's a couple of solutions. How quick can you get me a viable solution, checked off, approved by you? Well, I like that solution. Cy Anyways, went a little bit further into that.
Speaker 1:But the second point you're already hitting on and I'd love to get your feedback on is common communication breakdowns between the blue collar sector and the white collar sector and I've kind of already talked about it guys is, you know, we're used to our level of communication and then we get in with a heavy GC and we're like man, they're wanting so much out of us in the admin department and it's really just scheduling and some middle logs and a little bit extra.
Speaker 1:But when you start moving out from the GC world and you start dealing and you want these, for a long time I couldn't figure out. I would get one of these investors, developers, and I would get a hold of them. We'd do a job together. Job went perfect, communication went perfect. But here comes that next one, and I didn't sell my product of time to him. On the first one, obviously, because why am I not just the sole reason? On the second job, because that bugs me when they're using somebody else. On the second one, that bugs me as it should every single one of you. To eric's point of doesn't matter if there's 100k over here, if I've already paid you 500k, come finish the 10k worth of job, 10k worth of work.
Speaker 2:So talk a little bit about what maybe not just uh problems within it, but maybe a few solutions, yeah, so I think that I think it needs to be stated that everybody is struggles with the communication and I and I think that there's a good relation on the. You know, in the white collar sector of like you take a computer scientist or programmer right, the programmer or coder loves to be behind the computer coding it's the same thing as you love and being in the field, working, writing, digging and making shit happen. The last thing that this programmer wants to do is to go have meetings with their internal teams and go talk to a client. That's right, right, and so you can be a coder that stays in that world and you can be somebody that works in the field and doesn't want to communicate outside. But the problem lies is whenever you have a coder or somebody in the field that doesn't want to do that, and then they don't communicate and so their world stays isolated and then they don't get the opportunities to advance and then that person's also frustrated about not advancing opportunities. So it's kind of back to the original question is if you're starting a business it doesn't matter what kind if you're wanting to grow yourself, if you're wanting to accumulate more wealth, if you're wanting to break out of a lot of the problems that are related in business and grow out of them.
Speaker 2:You cannot be the coder in the black hole dungeon and you can't be the person in the field just working the field. You can't, just cannot do it. And it's a paradox that where it leads to multiple frustrations a, your clients are frustrated because you're not communicating, they don't understand what's going on because you live in your black box. And then, b, you're frustrated because you think you deserve and earn more because you work so hard. You know it's somebody that's in a field that's working 12 hours a day in the field, freaking, killing it and is doing a great job. But in comes freaking Eric's punk ass driving up and I paid money and I'm all upset because of all the things that haven't been done and I don't recognize your 12 hours of work that you did that day. But the problem isn't that you didn't do a good job. The problem isn't that I don't, that I have unreasonable expectations.
Speaker 2:The problem is is that there's no communication about what's going on and so written in communication and continuous repetitive communication. So I would say that the solve is is do you have the coder and do you have the person in the field If they have 12 hours in a day. Are they spending 12 hours of that working in the black box, or are they spending 10 hours or 8 hours and they're spending the rest of the time communicating their value? You have to dedicate that time.
Speaker 2:That's the difference between a coder that advances into a senior developer, that advances into a director, that advances into a senior developer, that advances into a director that advances into vp. When you look at big, same in our world, same thing in your world, yep, it's the exact same thing. And so but, but. But when the coder is trying to like if you have a coder that's absolutely fantastic and can program anything under the sun and they're like I want to go start my own business, I don't give a crap how good they are. If they're not going to be good communicators, that's not going to have a good business.
Speaker 1:Same thing, same thing it's. It's all about communication. But, like, I've got a superintendent. It's been with me almost four years. He just hit his four years and first two years, dude, he wouldn't even say a word, would not say a word. But, man, he could run track like you had never seen, could get things done, but wouldn't communicate that they're done or that he hit a issue or nothing. And then he trained another guy kind of the same way.
Speaker 1:Um, now, with a little bit of systems from the leader side of the table, you have got to enact some processes and procedures for these guys to actually, you know, fly and succeed in, and if you don't, you're just going to fail yourself. But, man, once you do that same guy, two years, dude, that guy calls me probably more than anybody, hey, man, but with the right problems for me to solve. Like, he's handling a lot in the field itself, but now documenting it so that I can see it as well. But I can have a freaking bad to the bone operator can run people, but if he can't fill out a daily log and an equipment sheet, I know he's not gonna be able to send an email to an engineer, and so that's just like to your coder, like, if you just want to code, that's cool, but you try and go out and you're already missing the other piece, whether you build resentment or not. And until you, as the operator or the coder, step out now to Eric's point needs to be up to the leadership to provide you enough time to step out and to start channeling that direction, whether it be white collar, blue collar, et cetera.
Speaker 1:But if you're going to move up, it's not about the things that you do good at right now, it's the things that you're crappy at. That you have to improve. And then, all of a sudden, somebody sees that man. I've been seeing some great emails from so-and-so Like where did this come from? Well, he sees that man. I've been seeing some great emails from so-and-so Like where did this come from? Well, boss.
Speaker 2:you know Well. I think that one point to this too, to give some encouragement is I mean, I encourage a coder the same way. There's not any. You don't have to be a gifted presenter. There's a difference between a communicator and a professional presenter, right? You don't have to be some extroverted, bold personality to communicate well, you just have to have the desire. You have to understand the value of it and you make time for it, and then you just practice it and then you get better over time.
Speaker 2:Again, be patient with yourself's. It could be as simple as, like, none of us, none of us really have time do, but do we make the time to do things? It's a discipline, it's. It's a, and that discipline comes from a vision, of saying you know what I am? All I do is work in the field and I can't break through my glass ceiling and I'm pissed off at everybody about it. Well, do you take ownership and being like, do you look at your? Can you start looking at yourself and your own problems first, before you start blaming all your bosses and all your clients and all your partners and the subcontractors and the other companies that are coming in? Just be the best at yourself and you can. And how do you improve yourself and you will break through all kinds of glass ceilings. The glass ceilings are existing because you don't have the introspection to improve yourself and and and.
Speaker 2:On all this, like on the simplicity of it, it is just simply like you have to know who you're communicating to. There's a difference between communicating to your team internally, which can be just purely verbal, on-site communicate and get clarity on what you're doing. Okay, sounds good, Then we act. But when it comes to the person that's paying the bills, you have to abide by their standardization of communication yes, Adapt to it. Adapt to it of communication yes, and adapt to it. Adapt to it Like but at the but. But most people that are paying the bills they're going to want simple communication.
Speaker 2:So give me high level, high level bullet points. I don't want to read two paragraphs. That's impressive to me If I really want to dig in and understand that there's something behind. You're not feeding me full of crap, but I usually don't want to see that. I just want to see in and understand that there's something behind. You're not feeding me full of crap, but I usually don't want to see that. I just want to see bullet points that I can read an email or a text message within five seconds, and I'm and I feel that I a lot of this is emotional. Yeah, I feel the comfort that you have shit under control.
Speaker 1:Every time you spend money, though, bro, you're going to be emotional about it. No matter what. If you've got money leaving your bank account and you're paying it as a client, you are going to have some emotions to deal with, and every type of ownership is different. Sometimes I've got five of you to keep happy all together and working on a multifamily, or down to a solo guy working on his forever home, so you have to be adaptable.
Speaker 2:No, think that's very you can create a process that satisfies all of them, but then the delivery is just the customization of that's good man you know what I'm saying super good yes, no, I know exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, and I mean like, if we're talking about somebody like advancing in their job, as in in blue collar, or or they're starting a blue collar type business, and when we say that I'm just thinking like skilled trades, skilled trade, yeah, I mean like it's. You know, man, and I would tell you too, like the value of that is going to continue to like the value of your trade will continue to increase as less people are involved in the trade. The demand side, man, they're dropping like flies, demand side's growing, supply side's shrinking. That means that's good news. Yeah, you know. But you know, can you be the best that you can be in that?
Speaker 1:Also too, though I would say to that it gives room for more disdain from the crappy contractors that are out there like you've dealt with a few of those and they are, like, not even close to getting it in general, let alone having a few nitpicky polishing things that we need to to polish up.
Speaker 2:But like it's uh, yeah dude, that a lot of you know there's a common thread into the folks that I've experienced that are not good business people is the same thing I've experienced, like when I hire a white collar marketing agency. What's the ambition of the person that's behind that driving it? Do they really give a crap about the relationship? Do they really give a crap about growing? Are they trying to grow a business or did they get into it because they see this phantom life of where money and time money. Yeah, I don't work very hard, but I make a shit ton of money and a life is great.
Speaker 2:And this paradox I'm taking vacations. Let me tell you something Like if you're, if you are alive, you're supposed to be working really hard and you have that ethic. And if you're trying to start a business, it takes a crap ton of energy. Like, and you're not, you're not all of your energy, yeah, it does. I mean it's like a sacrifice. And if you're going to try to earn more money, people that earn more money work really, really, really, really hard. They, they don't take a lot of vacations and if they do, they're multitasking their vacation and the entire time, the entire time. I mean it's like pisses off mama. I mean, hey, you got to man and you got. It's just. It just requires hard work, and I would. What I hate to see is somebody that works really hard and is good at what they're doing, but they don't see the value in communicating, and that's what puts the glass ceiling on them.
Speaker 1:You're exactly right, dude.
Speaker 2:You could add 10% of communication and remove a glass ceiling.
Speaker 1:That puts you into a whole different category of earning within three months, 90-day cycles, man, I preach it to my guys all the time. I just had a few conversations, you know, with a guy that was struggling as a superintendent and I'm like, hey man, look, you're not this level of caliber like you presented yourself. And hey man, I would love to have you. You're a likable guy, everybody gets along with you, but you suck at what you do and I can teach you what you need to do. And sometimes those conversations are hard.
Speaker 1:As a businessman you may like them, you don't want to have it, it is what it is, but when your team is yelling this one person's name nonstop, you've got to do something and if you don't, you're just shooting yourself in the foot. But to your point earlier about man. I cannot emphasize that enough that you can change your life in three months' time in 90 days of really, really hard work. Not 8 to 5. 8 to 5 is for getting by, 5 to 8 is for getting ahead and you've got to spend time after 5 o'clock Blue-collar guys maybe or before 8 o'.
Speaker 2:Spend time after five o'clock blue collar guys, maybe before eight o'clock, before eight o'clock, 5 am to 8 am.
Speaker 1:I mean I know I'm speaking to you, know a lot of guys like myself. They got young kids and they're just trying to support their family and you feel like you got to be there for every small event and I encourage you, please do um. But at the same time there's that line of I can't sleep at work because I need to put food in her mouth and I think that we tell ourselves lies that there's something easier there's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I do too, like I mean these damn investors, right, they just sit around and put money in and they don't have to work the job, but then they get paid back. I mean there's some truth to the fact that if you've got money and you continue to make more money, but I mean I don't know when the last time that you took $1,000 in cash and you walked over somewhere and you're like I'm going to put $1,000 here and I know for sure that this water bottle is going to return me back $1,500 next month or next year like there's a gamble to that and it's you're gambling, you know. So there's a lot of stress that becomes associated with having. If you have more money, you have more stress. I mean like, and you have more shit, that you have more, buy more stuff, you have more stuff to take care of and it takes. You know it's all difficult, you know, and I think that you know the big thing is is is that just get it out of your mind that somebody has it so much easier and better and faster and smoother than you do. It's really not a truth. You know there's pros and cons to everything, but if you are in that skill trade right, and you really know how to work the, the backhoe, or you know how to work the dozerzer and you're really good at that, like there is some substantial value to what you have spent your time in and if you do enjoy doing that.
Speaker 2:Now your choice is is do I want to get even better at what I'm doing? Take Sam, go ahead, yeah, and then that getting better can be going into territory of. I need to be a better communicator to my team internally and helping the client. If you, if I work for you and I'm really good at my backhoe, digging right and I just do a good job, I show up, I do the basics, I show up, I work diligently. I do need breaks. You know I need all those things, right? No lunch, yeah, I don't need a lunch, that's always right, but I mean, but I do a good job at that.
Speaker 2:And then all of a sudden you hear from me hey, cy, listen, or I send you a text at 4 pm every day. Here's the recap of what I did, here's my day tomorrow and what I expect to have done tomorrow, and I think that we're on timeline for this project and I do that every day and it takes me the extra 30 minutes. Will there be implicit more value on me than there will be for the rest of the team? 100% man. Will you consider giving me a bonus? Oh, of course. Or a promotion? Would you consider a promotion and raise? Would you do more to make sure that I stay on your team? Would you send me holiday cards and gifts? Would you send me on a vacation just to keep me happy and to know that you appreciate me? So you encourage me to keep doing more of that thing.
Speaker 1:Everybody happy, everybody wins, yeah, and we, literally we broke it down so elementary earlier this year. Um, this was a sarah requirement. She was so sick and tired of hearing well, I ain't got this at 10 o'clock in the morning, what do you mean? You don't have this at 10 o'clock in the morning? You could have taken care of this, and I mean it was.
Speaker 1:This is back when I had, uh, a separate leader, um, a different leader running project management, and we had a separate leader, a different leader running project management, and we had a sheet, literal, every single day. They had to fill it out at the end of the day, what they needed tomorrow, who they needed, what iron, what manpower, any material they needed bought and send this into me and Sarah's inbox every single day. You had to, or your guys would go home the next day. Yeah, but no, just kind of to that point. Like you've met Sam, sam is an over-communicator, yep, but it's in his communication form. He's not super adaptable at figuring out. Hey, eric wants to see communication like this. Yeah, you're communicating the right information, just not in a specific delivery of the custom situation that we're in, right, but you want to talk about a guy who stepped up man, that dude is something else in the communication game, but man.
Speaker 2:I think, dude, I'm like 47 or 48, 46 or something like that, and I've been an entrepreneur since I was 21, 22 years old. You know, dude, I am so I'm still growing, I'm still learning. There's so much I don't understand, there's so much I don't do. Well, there's, you know, and there's ways that I can improve. I mean, like all of us can continue just to kind of get better and better and better and better. But you've got to be that person. If you're listening, you absolutely can improve, you absolutely can earn 100, you absolutely can grow. But are you willing to do that? Do you want that for yourself?
Speaker 2:Because what I have seen so much, what just seems to be in your industry, are folks that don't want to do that, versus what I've seen more in the white-collar business industry, where there's these people that do want to do it. But the difference is slight. The difference is slight because on the white-collar side, I see a lot of people faking it until they make it, or bullshitting around, using, using freaking reputation, freaking marketing and campaigning. It's like you find a lot of snakes in there that quickly, yeah, real quick that that you know literally just are not who they say they are or not good at what they're saying, they're doing same thing in the blue collar sense.
Speaker 1:Just like I was discussing, I got a guy shows up. I'm operator, I've been doing this since you were not person. I can't tell you how many times I've had old men walk up and they don't get a job, like, I don't want somebody. That is. Look, um, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You have skilled tradesmen out there that are masters of their craft and they're working for, say, we're working for eric. Everything's been going great three, five years down the road. Man, we had some year. That's hard. 2024 was hard on every business. Um, yeah, screw this, I'll just go do this myself. Oh, yeah, and then in two years he's sitting there talking to talking to eric again. Hey, man, can I have my job back? I? I just can't get no work. I, I, that's all pay me.
Speaker 1:Well, what happens is just like you were speaking about that coder that doesn't want to push and learn. The same thing with skilled trades guys. You're a master trim guy and you work for so-and-so and you pick up a check every week is payroll. But now you're like, ah, I can buy a trailer, I can do this, I can do that. Well, then there's this whole other sector to business that you haven't even been introduced to yet and you're fixing to take a fire hose an eight inch fire hose directly at your face for every single day that your eyelids are even open. You won't be able to sleep and you're either going to succeed or fail, and you're going to use that as a driver to fail or succeed. Right, failure is the biggest thing, one of my worst fears in life. So success was easier for me to drive for, but I can't tell you. I've seen it in my little nine-year entrepreneurial career here. I've seen it where guys have started three businesses and failed because they're not entrepreneurs, they're masters of their craft, and I know you've met coders and you've met people through your years that are masters of their craft and you're like man, you're so good at what you do.
Speaker 1:If you could just send a proper freaking email, dude, I could have you doing this, this and this, and they're like, yeah, yeah, and they just never do it. You lay guidelines out for them. Yeah, yeah, and they just never do it. You lay guidelines out for them, you lay processes and procedures and they do absolute minimal basics to ensure that they've done the process, but they're not learning from the process and I see that all the time. But real quick, guys. If you're loving this episode and every other episode, you can find them all at bluecollarbusinesspodcastcom. If you're listening to us on a streaming platform, make sure you give us a rating or a follow, but don't have to have a subscription service to listen to us. You can listen to us all online at bluecollarbusinesspodcastcom. The audio and visual is both on that platform.
Speaker 1:So we've been kind of hitting around about this but we've literally been discussing it in full. But how do they identify? Say it is that coder, say it is their own self, and they are right there on the brink of trying to figure out these self-realizations. Right Of man, I'm really a terrible communicator. I've been doing this six, seven years and people keep everybody keeps quitting or firing because they don't want to be on my team, like what's the deal? So how do we identify and then leverage the skills? I think we've discussed that in length already, but as a blue collar business that is trying to use the white collar industry as clients per se, like myself, it's such a gap. Like I'm pretty good at talking to folks, it's still extremely challenging for me to line up with their pocketbook from a white-collar sense and I think you hit on it as communication. But how do we identify the skills, as a blue-collar guy, that we're failing at, whether employee or entrepreneurial-based? How do we start to enact and leverage them quickly?
Speaker 2:So here's what I learned. Okay, because I've had to learn like kind of the same vein, like I mean like if I was you know, have my company.
Speaker 2:I'm working with walmart. Well, there's a big difference between my company and how big and sophisticated walmart is, include, you know. So there's like levels. I think that there's something to be understood that even in a, the white collar setting of that, there's lots of different levels, and so if you're a small business on the white collar side, you have to know how to level up and communicate with folks that have way more tenure than you do, you know.
Speaker 2:But what I found is and this is a really simple thing that I think could be helpful is just think in bullet points, right, don't overcomplicate it. Like, be very simple in bullet points. And then, you know, think as like a. You know, like these are social post bullet points, right, they're like the X. You know the expert criteria of 80 characters. You know, or it's now it's not 80 characters. I'm not an X guy, but he's 120. Yeah, yeah, it's much higher than that.
Speaker 2:Edit that out, but, but anyway, but you know, thinking just like bullet points, very short statements and factual statements. They don't, you don't need to fluff it, you don't need to. You know, make it perfect. Just, you know, think of those bullet points and give that Reread your work. That's a huge one, like every single, like listen man, every email, every single email that I ever send on planet Earth. It doesn't make a god dang who it is. Every text message that I send Subliminally Does not. I specifically intentionally take the time to reread that back to myself and I copy, edit myself contextually and punctual wise, spelling wise. If I don't know the spelling of it, I go to the internets and I make sure that it's the correct use of the word. And whatever the thing about it is that this freaking thing right here it has commoditized so much in our life about the ability to work with anyone under the sun. You can check everything on here you can have, if you're.
Speaker 1:Translated to an entire different language.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude, it's like there's no longer this gap between what anybody that's, whether they're just coming out of college or they've been around for a long time. The gap of the difference is what I just said. Reread your work, take pride in what you do, do your best, be professional, be professional, be professional, even if it's your body. It doesn't matter. No, exactly, you've got to buzz this rock. You're a business person and being professional and not making stupid mistakes because what happens is that those silly, lazy mistakes is what kills your credibility.
Speaker 1:I can't tell you how you know lazy mistakes is what kills your credibility. You know, I can't tell you how many times I've read an email. I'm in the blue-collar side of things. But when a subcontractor or different contractor on site sends me an email and it's say it's misspelled no columns, no periods I'm like this dude don't even care about what I'm trying to tell him.
Speaker 2:That's what it tells you Immediately. It immediately tells you that you don't value. So let's get through some other things that are really simple. So you need to just understand the basic forms of communication. There's really not that many. There's phone calls, there's text messages and then there's email. It's about it in our world, bud. It's about it everywhere.
Speaker 2:That's how people want to be communicated with. It's the easiest way, and so all you now need to do is like those are not hard things to learn. You probably already know how to do every one of them and you should participate in those channels. You should have a, an email account that has and these are fundamentals that has your at business name to it have to and to, and you use that and you check it on a regular basis. And then you've got your phone and you use these.
Speaker 2:Really simple. I mean, it's funny, but it's very simple. And then you know how I want to be communicated. And it's a simple question hey, would you like for me to send you a text every day, or an email every day, or would you like for me to give you a call every day and when, or an email every day, or would you like for me to give you a call every day? Yeah, and when you call them, you have it written down in your bullet points and you just verbalize your bullet points, you know, uh? So those things are really simple. There's not much more complication to it uh than that. You just got to start enacting. You got to start enacting it immediately.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not like. Oh, this is this. Maybe I can't tell you how many guys I've met, dude, that will formulate this great plan. This is what I'm going to do. This is my solution. This is what I'm going to do. And it's so simplistic. And they never start. They just never start. And then it's three years down the road and they're in the exact same spot they were just in and I'm like'm like, dude, you're and I'm sitting here going. You have so much potential. You are this person in my mindset. If you would just level up just a little bit and show me a little bit of investment that's it internally.
Speaker 1:now don't get me wrong. I've got a ways to go on as we venture out and deal with higher level clients and upper echelon levels, and it has been gone from working for plumbers to working for billionaires and it is a massive gap. As the owner or the leader or the CEO or whatever you want to call us me and Sarah as a team, but specifically myself I've got to set forth a standard of how we're going to communicate to you guys and then spin around, enact that a process and procedure. Hey, this is the communication that we're going to use. It's not hard. I just need this information brought to me by this time every day and then I can meet the client's needs very easily. But don't just to you guys that are sitting there. Going man, I don't have time for all that are sitting there going, man, I'm gonna go time for all that crap.
Speaker 2:you have to like no one has the time, no one does, but the people that make the time and prioritize that time are the ones that are getting the jobs. They're winners, dude. They're just winning. They're just winning. I mean it's the same thing on me, like if I'm wanting a big contract with a massive company, I'm gonna have to step up and do those things that are expected In their communication avenues Exactly, and then they're going to have legal policies.
Speaker 2:I have to talk to the legal team, I have to write an RFP, a request for proposal, you know, for that specific in the way that they have their operations, or I don't get to participate. I mean, it's just like there's no breakthrough in any of that. That's right, and the reason there's no breakthrough is because the more money that anybody has, the more they have to protect it, which means there's more legalities around it. It's protecting them in insurance and all this other stuff. It just it compounds with the more money. So if you're going to play ball with that and you want that, then you have to play, you have to participate in the game because, in essence, you're protecting your client's money.
Speaker 1:Think about it. If you're sitting here listening to us and you're, you know, 500,000 million annual revenue, you got three or four guys. Think about what it would say when you did get the opportunity for the first time, because I can remember one of the first times and I botched it, bro, I'm a good communicator, like I pride myself in that and I absolutely botched it because it wasn't the way they were used to communicating. I was over-communicating, in the opposite way of the way they wanted to communicate. It's not the fact that I was communicating, it was just the delivery of the communication. And I'm telling—go ahead.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you this Like so we've done work. You said earlier that I'm a client of yours. One of the biggest reasons that I awarded working with you on the job. It's so simple. Yeah, you jumped on the Google Meet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when I remember this too, you were like and it stuck out to me in your email you were like hey man, let's do a virtual meeting. And I'm like what the hell am I supposed to tell you on a virtual meeting, bro? We're meeting out here on a mountain and we're literally transforming a mountain. So I had to go OK, this is my opportunity. What's the best way to display it?
Speaker 1:I had a set of plans that you couldn't even read, I mean not being any way there but you've literally said hey man, you're going to show me some stuff on plans, and you're going to show me some stuff on plans. I'm still learning, I'm very new to this, but I want to understand this. And so I was like, okay. So I grabbed a set of prints, jump on a Google Meet. And I'm like hey, Rick, I know you got this amount of time, this is what I'm proposing. We do, we do this, this and this, even though I could tell that you may not have grasped it fully from that virtual. I had a plan, I knew how I was going to attack the job and I displayed it to you in your communication method. So that's cool.
Speaker 2:But again, for the simplicity of this, Sorry, no, no, I mean, I think all that's relevant and correct but I want to make the point of is that you knew how to use Google Meet. You knew how and, like that was my request as somebody that, like this is my life and this is how I'm communicating you came and you were able to participate and meet my needs on how I communicate. That's exactly what we've been talking about. If I said hey, let's meet on Google team or let's meet on Microsoft teams, and you said no, then I'd be like piss off.
Speaker 2:I got time for you If I said let's meet on Zoom and you said no. But the point of that is that that's what it requires. You cannot say no, you cannot turn a blind eye. You cannot stiff arm the ways that your client is wanting to communicate. When you do that, you are discrediting yourself. You're putting the burden back on your client. I would rather and everybody gets this, listen, I would rather spend a dollar with you and you make my life easier and my time easier all day long than spending 80 cents with somebody else. That is not making my life easier. That's why Walmart grocery beats a lot of the other smaller groceries because I can they the convenience of being able to go online, buy my products and go pick it up.
Speaker 1:Just won that business, oh yeah do the same thing and now they deliver it. I'll do. They'll have it towards something like two or three hours, it's not doug millen said it busts many years ago.
Speaker 2:Convenience in time is just as much of a value to customers as money it is.
Speaker 1:You know and here's the blue collar sense for you I owned a single axle dump truck. I could charge almost the same amount of money. And this is yeah, I say this, and I got rid of my single axle. I could charge the same amount of almost the same amount of money as a 10-wheeler or as a tri-axle, because I had this big truck that could move 8 tons of material, not 18 tons of material, but I could put it exactly where they needed for that pool install Because I could fit in with this tiny little truck.
Speaker 1:It's just the same thing as you go up to a convenience store and you pay. It used to be $1.89. Now it's $2.89 for that 20-ounce soda, but you passed right by the two liters that are on sale for $1.50. Why are you not buying that two liter? Because it's inconvenient and it doesn't fit in your freaking cup holder. It's that simple. It's all about convenience and if you can provide that through your service, you win every freaking time. And so it's harder for this side of the table to grasp it, because you either got it or you don't. And the visualization of hey, this customer, like I was just saying a moment ago, if you're doing $500,000 million and you step out and you communicate like that five, ten million dollar company, you're going to get opportunities, just like that five and ten million dollar company, and you're going to be like why are these people? It's simple, it's a little bit of communication.
Speaker 2:It's all applicable if, whether you're employed, whether you're have your own business or whether you're a subcontractor person, I mean everybody, everybody wants and needs.
Speaker 2:It's not a want, it's a need for other people to communicate so that it makes their job easier to communicate to where the money's sourcing from. It's just that daggum, simple. And if you don't want and here's the good news most of the people across all walks of life, most of the people across all walks of life, most people want a passive, easy, rich, wealthy lifestyle, and that is 100 a lie. Those don't even. It's a thousand percent a lot. And even if you had that, you wouldn't be happy because there's no honor in what you do. I mean, just look at the trustafarians they got the heiresses, you know, they got, you know, you know. Or the heirs that you know that get all this money and they don't have to work, they don't have that satisfaction and honor and pride of working and so you can beat all those people out, which is a lion's share of everybody, especially in today's world when you got people that are, you know, creating stupid videos and being millionaires, you know, makes me so mad, it makes you value to the market. Well, I know, but like the thing is is everybody wants this like flamboyant, like why life? And if you look at them, they're not even happy, nope, and they don't have a game plan about what they're gonna do, because you're gonna. They never needed one. No, I don't mean like, but they're, they're gonna, it's gonna be short-lived or it's gonna be, but anyway. I mean like, but they're going to, it's going to be short lived or it's going to be Anyway. I mean like you can be so much better just by being somebody. That's like. You know what I want to improve? I want to be a better communicator. That's that simple it really is. It is really that simple.
Speaker 2:And that comes in bullet points and just communicating through being able to communicate through text, voice and email and then being able to know what your clients and the industry is using. Are they using google? Mean, are they? You know? Just another zoom and don't be. And and then if they say yeah, I'll send you a zoom, meaning my trick was always like, and I'm like, yeah, no problem, I'll be there and I'll be like, what the hell zoom? I would go on to freaking youtube and google and gemini and freaking.
Speaker 2:go in there, research the shit out of you, watch some videos and now you're a freaking pro Dude. That's how easy it is.
Speaker 1:Literally that phone that's attached to our bodies all times of day and night. It is the tool to unlock every single lock. I can't tell you how many times I've met customers on their property and like, hey, you can do all this. I'm like, yeah, man, yeah, I'm walking away youtubing before I hit the truck going. What in the hell did I just sign myself up for? But that's that's kind of leading into our kind of last topic of the day.
Speaker 1:Um, talking to those guys like myself that have never started with any capital, never had felt okay. You know know what I mean. Now there is those, what I refer to as daddy's money, um, but there is some of those categories of daddy's money that, um, like myself and my son and my daughters, uh, they gonna hit the ditch and we gonna, we gonna learn how daddy learned this, cause we ain't just running a company. You have no idea about this company, you're gonna learn. So there's those guys out there. I'm not when I say daddy's money, but I'm talking to what eric just mentioned was hey, here's a check, go start your company, like those that happens on the daily, uh, but there is a zero purpose after you're handed that money. What's other than just not let dad down and got a pretty good feeling you probably have before and that's why he's giving you the venture.
Speaker 1:So, to begin with, but talking on funding and dude capital, and you have some experience in the capital market and knowing how to preclude capital on the white collar side, but us blue collar guys we don't even think that's a thing, like we don't even think that's an opportunity. Fundraising or like why is it able to be used on this side but not on this side? And um and. And you're talking to subcontractors that are sitting there waiting on literally today, day 79, on the first pay up of a job that's completed and you've billed twice on and you still haven't been paid on. And how do they keep cash flow? Everybody wants to preach cash flow at us but nobody wants to freaking teach us cash flow. How do we preclude funding resource challenges for the blue collar guy, a skilled tradesman that is a master of his craft. He's learning as quickly as he possibly can in the business regard, like myself, but wants to ensure that money isn't affecting his business every day. I know it's kind of a back-loaded question that's.
Speaker 2:It's a significant one, I mean, and you know I'm I'm running out of time too, so you got all the time in the world.
Speaker 1:You own this place. No, no, I got.
Speaker 2:I do have. I have a meeting, though I do. I do have the money. Um, man, I would say, uh, I mean I'd be happy to come back on again. Let's unpack that a lot, because I think there's a lot to that. There's a lot of, a lot of ways to to navigate it. They need it. Oh, totally, I've you know, and I think we, we all kind of do right and I think that there's been.
Speaker 2:I would agree with you that there's more capital opportunities outside of the traditional blue collar industry. I think that there is significant opportunity in blue collar industry if, if you can, if you can understand how that capital industry is working and what they're really wanting. What are the which we do not? Well, yeah, but you get so much opportunity in technology, yes, we do. So much opportunity in technology, so much opportunity.
Speaker 2:And you gotta, if you're wanting to access capital, you gotta think of scalability. That's the number one thing. That's why technology works. It's not because it is technology, it's because technology is scalable. People pay to get a return on their investments. It's like our Google example we used earlier. Like you take the, you know if I can invest in something that compounds and scales, and that's where the return back to me is at. It's not the fact that it's specifically tech, it's just that tech allows for scalability.
Speaker 2:So Simple scalability usually too, yeah yeah, and I mean it doesn't have to be massive, you know. I mean like if, if there was something that you came and you're like, hey man, look for 10,000 bucks, but I can take this and and and I can do this thing thing, but there's all this market that I know that's there and it will be an easy sell. I mean, yeah, I mean it makes sense to me, you know, like, I mean there's, there's way, like that. Scalability is really important when it comes for capital investment, but nonetheless, like I think that the biggest rule of thumb and and this is one that's often overlooked by everybody is what is the number one easiest, best, most affordable, most available form of capital that there is. It's your customer and like we look at our customer like they're something else other than capital they're really not and they're the most available. It's like I should be able to if I have a trade or I have a skill set, if I have a backhoe that I have, or if I have a freaking wheelbarrow and a shovel.
Speaker 1:Electrician with some S10 and some tools.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if I have those simple things and I am going to do good work, I should be able to go get capital. For that Meaning, I can go and I just go and ask and I show up and I communicate and I just show up. That capital that I'm getting directly from the customer is the best capital because it has only one string attached, which is the job. It has no stress and pressure other than doing the job. That's right, you know, and and it's very controllable and there's a lot more out there. So, whenever, if you're looking to start a business and you want capital, you really your your capital thinking needs to be in the mind of I need to go get sales and make that work, because if you can accomplish that, then you have freedom. Because the all the other forms of capital come with some massive string, whether that's a loan from the bank, you know, or whether that's from a group of investors, or that's mom and dad, or it's a friend and family, like friends and family is the most dangerous form of terrible. It may be accessible, but, bro, you can screw up everything you know and and, dude, like, if I have an idea, which I have, one that I could, I do need additional capital from, and so I'm going to look at VCs or I'm looking at whatever groups I'm more nervous about borrowing their money. I mean, that makes me super nervous because now, once I get the cash, I have to perform at a level. That means that, dude, it's like time clock is on and, by the way, I've seen this happen. You can't piss around with that You're talking about if you start doing things wrong in that realm.
Speaker 2:You got some legal problems Quickly, very quick, and that you didn't even know existed, and very sharp people that know exactly what they're doing. Yeah, bro, they already got their attorney stacked. Yeah, I mean they get doing. Yeah, bro, they already got their attorney stacked. Yeah, I mean they. Bse stands for Venture Capital. Venture Capital yeah, very, very. I mean I got a couple of fun. You know capital groups that would love to come on the show and we could have a good dialogue on it, but I mean, oh, dude, we need to. Very, very dangerous. You know dangerous expectations there, and you can find yourself in a ball of wax that you never. But all the while, if you just go to your customers, if you just make five more calls, you might have the capital you need.
Speaker 1:Dude, you are 100% hitting the nail on the head.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you, and I'm living proof of it with White Spider we started with $850 in the bank account and then we built a company from there and never took outside capital. That's never took it. I sold it and I had. I had a little bit over 50. My partner had the rest two people on the cap table and because we never took outside capital and we ran a business and we built it from our clientele by providing good work, communicating, adapting with the times, just working our butts off. But you know what? We had to work a lot harder and I had to sacrifice a lot, I had to take some risks, but I didn't have somebody that was going to say, hey, man, you're all done, yeah, and, by the way, you owe as much money.
Speaker 1:And then, by the way, we're gonna sink your company, so you can't get any money back, so you can pay us off and we and we're just going to own your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, own everything and everyone's going to know about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you're exactly right. Use your customer, use your customer Best capital you can have, man 100%. And sales is everything, sales is everything. I literally made a YouTube video on five things you should know before starting an excavation company. It's up on YouTube, went up yesterday, had ridiculous response. And number one was know your purpose of why you're trying to do this, and it better not be time and money. The second thing was sales, sales, everything, sales. Number three would be know your cost, yeah. And then number four is pick your equipment and if you're doing, rental rates. And then number five is do profitable work and a little bit of stuff that I've learned from you.
Speaker 1:But last thing, taking away. Brother you've had, I can't thank you enough for your time and the dialogue. That has been fantastic and I know it's going to help so many folks. But what's a takeaway? I ask everybody on this show before they hit the door on the exit what's the takeaway for the blue collar worker who's just sick and tired of being stuck in the mud? And that's not, you know, not thinking of SyCon and the guys in the ditches that are stuck in the mud. I'm talking about mentally, physically and emotionally. A lot of these guys are, especially through 2024, they didn't have enough money at home to even keep the needs met, let alone do anything once. Have enough money at home to even keep the needs met, let alone do anything once. But where are they at and what would you give them? A simple little key thought that they haven't even thought of I would.
Speaker 2:I would say that, like my experience has been, you know, is that you you've got to, you've got to spend time with yourself and and recognize your insecurities and your lack of self-confidence. It's deep, dude, it's really deep, but I mean everybody struggles with it. We're all humans. I mean, we've all made a lot of mistakes, but we can all make a change and and it and it takes everything in your gut being to do that. I've been in some really dark holes myself. I mean, whether you call it depressed, whether you call it anxious or whatever panicking, I mean it doesn't matter, I've been, it's all three wrapped in one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, it's, it's, it's, it's a hard grid. There's, there's, uh, there's a lot of force against what you're doing, but it is. But you have the power to think your own thoughts, and that's one of the greatest gifts that we have. And it's true to everybody. And and you can, you know, like, looking, are you just insecure? What are you angry about? What are you scared about? You know, and and kind of look at those things and and then affirm yourself out of it because you do have, I mean, you're here for a purpose. You, I mean you're here for a purpose, you know, got to have that purpose. Dude, got to have and you got, yeah, you got to nail that, like you, and you got to consistently know that there's a lot to that right, there's a lot to writing down goals and objectives and and and and having dreams. Don't stop dreaming, you know. Don't stop moving.
Speaker 1:Don't let the business crush you where you normally entrepreneurs are, dreamers and visionaries, and man being in the entrepreneur seat and being the CEO and the leader man, you crushes you quickly and crushes your dreams and your hopes and you're just get into it. So deep but encouraging thought there. Man, deal with them. Insecurities, and a lot of your insecurities, like myself, will drive you to success. Sure, if you don't, do I mean um, do I mean um, drive you to a version of success. Let's put it that way yeah, you can.
Speaker 2:You can um ignorantly. I agree that's a good point, because I look, that's what I did, man, I was very naive and ignorant in my youth to where my insecurities were driving me to greater heights 100 but then you get at, get at a certain age and then they creep up and they actually have these ceilings that you just can't get past. But anyway, Literally.
Speaker 1:Thank you for your time, guys. If you love this episode, check us out bluecollarbusinesspodcastcom or if you're listening to us on any streaming service. I really appreciate your time today and give us a rating and a follow and if you found any value out of this, make sure you drop a like if you're watching us on YouTube. But, man, eric, it sounds like we're going to have to have a couple more sessions, and if you haven't checked out Big Talk, a smallbusinesscom, you need to. That's where Eric and another wonderful human being that's on this planet, mark Zweig, sit and discuss. I've been on there before, but there is plentiful to help you guys in the business realm, and a lot more on the white collar side. So check that out. Big talk about small business. Big talk about smallbusinesscom. I'm going to write that down. But thanks, guys, until next time. Be safe and be kind and be humble.
Speaker 1:If you've enjoyed this episode, be sure to give it a like. Share it with the fellers. Check out our website to send us any questions and comments about your experience in the blue collar business. Who do you want to hear from? Send them our way. We'll do our best to answer any questions you may have. Till next time, guys.